Good Enough Parenting: Letting Go of Perfection, Mom Guilt & Burnout with Emily Beecher

What if the secret to better parenting… was letting go of perfection?

In this powerful and deeply relatable episode of Mom’s Brain Is a Coffee Stain, Kayla sits down with Emily Beecher, certified life coach for women at life’s crossroads, to unpack the truth about motherhood, identity, burnout, and self-compassion.

From working with major brands like Disney and Warner Brothers to navigating single motherhood, neurodivergence, and burnout, Emily shares her journey of rediscovering what truly matters—and why “good enough parenting” may actually be the healthiest approach for both moms and kids. 

This episode is an honest, vulnerable conversation about what happens when life doesn’t look the way you expected—and how to rebuild in a way that actually aligns with who you are.

In This Episode We Discuss:

• What “good enough parenting” really means (and why perfection can be harmful)
• Letting go of unrealistic expectations and mom guilt
• How burnout shows up in motherhood—and how to begin healing
• Navigating identity loss and reinvention as a mom
• Parenting neurodivergent children (ADHD, autism, dyslexia) with compassion
• Advocating for your child in systems that don’t always support them
• Why self-compassion is essential for moms
• The pressure of “having it all” and why it’s often a myth
• How to reconnect with yourself during overwhelming seasons of life
• The power of honest conversations in reducing mom isolation

Key Takeaways:

✨ You don’t have to be a perfect parent to raise happy, healthy kids
✨ Your value is not measured by productivity or perfection
✨ “Good enough” parenting creates space for connection, growth, and real life
✨ You are allowed to evolve, change, and redefine your identity

A Moment That Will Stick With You:

So many moms believe they’re failing… when in reality, they’re just exhausted, overwhelmed, and trying to meet impossible standards.

This episode is your reminder that:
👉 You are not alone
👉 You are not behind
👉 You are already enough

Guest Information

Emily Beecher
Certified Life Coach for Women at Life’s Crossroads

🌐 Website:
https://emilybeecher.com

Connect with the Show

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to Mom's Brain is a Coffee Stain, the only podcast clinically proven to raise your blood pressure and your dopamine. I'm Kayla, Millennial Mom, current chaos coordinator of two spoil giants who think budget is a TikTok sound. Today we're talking with Emily Beecher. And honestly, I could spend all day talking about her resume. But her true goal is to build connections and help other moms feel seen in this world. Well, that's enough of me rambling on. Time for you all to meet Emily. Let's jump on in. Welcome to the show, Emily. Thank you so much for joining us today. Kayla, I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

My pleasure. So we're gonna just jump right in and get to know a little bit about you. You've had such a fascinating career across film, television, and all types of media before moving into life coaching. Tell us a little bit about your journey and what led you to the work you're doing today.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? I always say I have like a snakes and ladders kind of career, like all over the place. Um, I started sort of producing in media. I kind of fell into it but loved it right away. And so I was really lucky. I got to work with a lot of really amazing brands and bring storytelling to life. You know, I worked at Disney, I've worked for Cartoon Network, Warner Brothers, Nintendo, Kellogg's. I've like got to make spots and promos and stuff like that for all of them, which was really amazing and it was a great time. But it wasn't the most family friendly, I would say, kind of work. The hours were long, the days were long. Um, and when I kind of became a single mom, I was like, okay, this isn't sustainable. I actually took a job where I was a post-producer, post-production uh producer, and I ended up sleeping in an edit suite with my two and a half year old. And I was like, My, no, no, this is not a thing. I'm not gonna. Yes, yeah. So I think that was kind of the thing that moved me kind of out of that type of production, but I stayed in the arts and then I ended up doing lots of writing, which we'll talk about later. And then all of it, when I thought about it, was really about storytelling and people. And I love developing people. I always used to say that I developed, you know, ideas and people, and the people kind of win for me in that. So that's kind of how I've ended up here.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

So incredible. Like, and just to think, like, you worked with such big name brands, like you said, like Disney, Rest in Peace, Cartoon Network. I grew up with it. I loved it. It was oh, Ed and Eddie was like one of my jams.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Which is like Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Yes. Oh, I love that show. Um, and it's like you said, people won out over that. But storytelling is still very creative. And what did that world kind of teach you about storytelling in your ability to connect it to the people?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, it's so interesting because especially when you're making like commercials and spots, you have you have 30 seconds max, you know, and that is not a lot of time to tell a story. And I think that really helped me hone my storytelling skill because you've got to be, you've got so many constraints. And I think actually the worst thing for a writer is like a blank page of like, go do whatever you want. It's like a long panic. What? Um, so having the restraints was really important. But I really learned that you have to know your audience. Like you can, and I've seen that so many times across my work in media and developing work across media, you really have to know who you're talking to because otherwise it's an idea of what they might connect to, as opposed to, you know, you know your audience so well, you know what they'll like and what they want, and what they don't want is equally as important. So I think that time was really great for me to understand that you can say a lot in a short period of time as long as you know exactly who you're talking to.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Makes perfect sense. And your work, it really focuses now on motherhood and identity. And I love this reinvention. Was there a specific moment, like you said, uh sleeping in the editor suite with your daughter, you know, that your life just was nope, not gonna do this, and you shifted your path to this new direction.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I think it was a combination of lots of things, which I think is obvious usually the way for us. I think it was a combination of a period of time where I was working 60-hour weeks and I was just like, I'm burning out, I can't keep doing this. I think it was my daughter being diagnosed as being ADHD and then autistic. And that in turn led to my own diagnosis. And I think that was a huge moment of okay, like who am I in the world? What do I believe? What do I think? Who am I gonna show up as? And that in and of itself forced me to take a step back. So I took some time off after I did this incredible period of work. I had a lot of amazing projects go out, but I was so burnt out by the end of it that I had to ask myself what was important. And a big thing for me actually was that I'd neglected a lot of my friendships over that sort of intense year. Um, and what came out of that for me was a real craving for connection on a personal level in my own life. And that in turn sort of I took almost a year to try and figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I didn't really come up with a secure answer. But I knew it involved, you know, people and connection. And that was really important for me. And I think, like I said before, I really do think that my whole life has led me to this point and getting to do something that I love because I believe in that connection and I believe in that ability to sort of grow and change no matter what life throws at us.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

And I think that's the important part, right? Is because so many of us, we give our all to these jobs. And I a lot of us have careers and we have jobs, and we kind of see our career as something we invest heavily in, and because it's supposed to be an investment in yourself, right? You're putting, for example, I worked at a local theater once and I ran it and I loved it, and I was there from the time it was built to we rock and rolled all through COVID. Um, and I realized, you know, working 70 hours a week and running home to hurry up and make dinner for my family and tuck the kids in and say goodnight, to just go back to work until two or three o'clock in the morning. Um, and then seeing them off to school in the morning and running back to work. It was just one of those things where it's like, one, you don't value me the way I value the work I do here. So that's a big thing that I think a lot of us need to take a step back and realize, like the value of ourselves. Because so many things tell us how valuable they are, whether that's by the paycheck or the amount of time that they consume, they're telling you how valuable they are, but are they really? No. They're telling you to increase your capacity and comp increase your efficiency. They don't actually see you as a person as being valuable, but your family does, right? Your kids, they see you as valuable. And it's like you said, having those personal connections, I think is really important because your friends see you as valuable, not for any other reason besides you're their friend, you know, and it's so important to at any point in our life to really take a step back and just realize like, I'm here for my children, I am here for, you know, my partner, my friends, my parents, whatever it may be, and have the value where it's actually supposed to be, instead of being in that career or being in that job that really is just gonna take as much as you can give it.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah. And I think the other thing is like, uh, what are your personal values? Yes. Personal values change so many times. What I valued at 22 or 25 is not what I valued at 35. And I turned 50 last year, like, it's not what I value at 50 at all. Yes. Do not sign me up for any of that stuff, please. You know, I am done. Yeah. So we don't often get to check in on that. We don't often sit down and be like, oh, what do I value today that I might not? It's usually a crisis. It's usually, you know, whether it's a redundancy or something happens at work and you get burnt out. You're like, I can't keep working all of these hours. I can't, I can't work faster, I can't work harder. I'm not getting, you know, what I need from this. I speak to so many women that are like, I've got what I wanted and I hate it. Like I was supposed to love this. I've worked my whole life. I went to school for this, I studied for this, I paid my dues for this, I worked my ass off. And I just feel a bit icky. And I'm like, well, your values have changed. Time has changed for you. And I always think it's a huge thing to stop and be like, okay, actually, what is valuable to me at this point in time? And that was a huge part of what I did. I was like, actually, those things that I was chasing, they're not connected to who I am as a person anymore. My values have.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah, and I think that's so important. And on values and motherhood, you created the Good Enough Mums Club, which grew out of your own experiences with postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. What inspired you to turn something so very personal, because that is so personal, into this creative project that helped other mothers feel seen and less alone in this world?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah, it was an amazing thing, really, that we pulled off. I think it's a miracle we pulled it off. But essentially, the Good Enough Moms Club was a musical about motherhood. It is a musical about motherhood, and it toured the UK in 2024, um, 23, 24. And we'd worked on it for about 10 years at that point. But what had happened was I had postnatal depression. It came on probably when my daughter, I think, between when she was three to five months old, but I wasn't diagnosed till she was 10 months old. So that was with the postnatal depression. And then I was so undertreated and under-medicated that I had the postnatal psychosis when she was 13 months. And it just sort of, it was a slow dissension, but it was awful. But when I got the diagnosis, when I got the, you know, and they're like, there is something wrong with you. Like, this is a thing. Like, I just thought that I was a shit mother. I just thought I was a shit mom. Everyone else had it together, everybody else was killing it. They all looked great. They all seemed like their life was together. And I was just a mess. And I thought that was me. And actually, when they were like, actually, you know, you have postnatal depression, I was like, great. Thank you. There is something wrong. I'm not supposed to feel like this. Like, wow, okay. And so, because of that, I think, I felt zero shame about that because I think there was so much relief for me. It wasn't like, oh my god, I have a mental illness. Like, I didn't go down that road at all. I was just like, thank God there's it's real. There's something like a name for it. Yeah. There's a name for it. And I don't, I shouldn't feel like this. Yes. And so because of that, I kind of went around telling everyone, like, yeah, I had depression. Hey, I know what it is. I'm not a shit mom. But I'd had a really, really rough day. And I was seeing, because I was part of an outpatient therapy program for a while, and I was seeing my therapist, and I just felt like I couldn't do anything right. And I kind of came in and was like very teary. And I was like, I just I think that's it. I have to give up being the perfect mother. I just can't, I'm just gonna have to settle for being good enough.

unknown 12:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

She looked at me and she was like, You do know that there's an entire like psychological theory of parenting called good enough parenting. And I was like, uh, no, I did not know that. Okay, so someone else has thought of this. But she said something to me that day that changed my life, and it was she said, Emily, in my private practice, I see far more patients from perfectionist parents than I ever do from parents who were just doing enough. And I was like, Well, what the hell am I trying to do this thing for then? Why am I trying to be a perfect parent? If that's damaging, if that's more damaging than bumbling along and not knowing what I'm doing, why am I striving to do this totally ridiculous thing that I can't do? That no one should actually probably be doing because it's so damaging. And it was just a moment for me where I was like, well, wait, if this has been held up as like the pinnacle of like this is the perfect mother in my head, thanks to media and the idea that we could have it all. Why am I trying to do that if that's not the best thing for my child?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah. And I was that makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Right? Like, what am I trying to do here? I'm killing myself trying to be this thing that but exists in my head and obviously exists in the real world. But why why am I doing it?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah. And at the end of the day, it always comes down to the why, right? It's why are we doing something and somebody else's reason is not the same as yours. You know, just like somebody else's level of perfection is not gonna be the same as yours. Yeah. There's many things in my life I would not have done if I was striving to be perfect, you know, and it's okay to I don't want people to jump all over and say, well, you should always strive for perfection. It's okay to strive to to hit a goal, but it's not okay to strive to be perfect because no one is perfect. What is perfect, right? Exactly. What is perfect? What is a hundred percent a hundred percent of the time? No one. No one, you know, and and if they are, they're going to do that for a very short time frame. I can guarantee you that, because they will burn out rapidly.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

So I took this thing and I was like, wow. And when I started having conversations with other women, you know, all these women that I thought had their shit together when I didn't, they all had things that they were struggling with, that they were afraid to say out loud. And I always say that very quickly I became this sort of keeper. I felt like I was a collector of women's stories and the things that they were afraid to say out loud. And I knew that I had to do something with it. I still to this day, you know, 16 years later, I still don't know why I picked a musical, but I kind of came from the theater world. I love music. I am actually not that musical, but I knew I had something to say in that realm. And so um I worked with a small team to start with, and we started writing and collecting stories and doing story gathering workshops up and down the UK. And it was such an incredible privilege to have these women come in and just talk to me about their experiences in the way that we are now, but it informed all of the work. And it was, it's always a privilege to tell people stories and to be able to share the show, it focuses around five different women that are very different types of mothers and have very different experiences. And it just shows sort of the highs and lows and everything in between. But what I wanted is I wanted women to go to the theater and see themselves represented. Yes. See themselves in our glory and our disaster all at once. And that it's okay at the end of the day, like at the end of the day, I always say, at the end of the day, if we're still alive, I count it as a win. Um, but that you don't have to be perfect, you just kind of you have to be good enough, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

And I think that's so important. And I love that you talk about this because it's something that I think people, and especially mothers, we don't talk about when it comes to parenting. We strive for the perfection, and you have those perfect social media parents always, and you know, you might strive for that. And then you have the the chaos, two days worth of clean clothes piled up on the dining room table because you're just exhausted at the end of the day that you don't want to fold them, but everybody's fed, everybody's showered, bathed, homework's done, they're in bed, and everybody's safe, and you are just zapped. And we don't talk about that, may look like chaos, but that's just good enough. You know, that's showing up. You're you were there for your kids, and that's what matters, you know. Who cares if your house looks like a a little ID one off in it? You know, that can be fixed another day. As long as your kids are happy, healthy, fed, and safe and secure. That's good enough. You know.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

House doesn't have to look like a show home every day. Like I definitely will like, I love having people over it means I clean the house. But, you know, on a day-to-day basis, our home is where we live, and we live as as individuals and sort of we can be chaotic or we can be that. It doesn't have to be squared off in a neat little tiny box because life is not like that. And I think you're right. We either get this like totally chaotic, out of control, let's tut at her and shake our heads at how terrible she's doing because she's chaos mom. Or we get, you know, absolute, I know, Stepford wife mom and like perfect, not a hair out of place, looks amazing, you know, like hasn't eaten a carb in 30 years. Like her kids are like, you know, carbon cutter. You're like, okay, wow, um, I'm just gonna go throw myself in a lake now.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Let me just go put myself in the oven for dinner.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I mean, but there is the rest of the world is in between that, right? Like the rest exist in the space between those two very narrow um stereotypes. And some days my house is spotless, and some days it probably if the police showed up, they would think that I'd been robbed. Like that's right.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

No, I totally understand. And I think that's why the Good Enough Mums Club is so important because it shows those aspects of just being good enough and having conversations like this are so important because again, it's highlighting you just have to show up for your kids and be good enough. You don't have to meet anyone else's ideal of perfection. Anyone, you know, like and none of us know what we're doing, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

And everyone how many parenting books there are. You could read every parenting book. I think you'd be the most screwed-up parent in the world. And you'd know even less. So I kind of I think I kind of abandoned a lot of that advice quite early on, probably because of the depression, and it probably served me relatively well. But like what each of our kids needs, like, we're the expert in our kids. And I think that's something really important to hold on to. And they are looking at us for comfort and guidance and love, but they're not looking at us and being like, yeah, you look like shit today, mom. Like, you can't be my mom today because I don't love you anymore because, you know, you look really tired and your clothes are dirty or whatever. Like, that's not what they're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

That's not. Not at all. And you know, like, it's like you said, we're the expert in our kids, and our kids are different, you know. Even like, for example, you know, my son couldn't be more different from his sister. Just could not be more different. And they live in the, you know, like they grow up the same way. Yeah. It and it's me and my sisters, and me and my brother. We could not be more different, you know, and that is completely okay. But our parents are the experts of us, they know what works, they know how to reach us. And, you know, there's times now that I will literally call my mom and be like, talk to your oldest daughter, like talking about my older sister, like, because it's like I've said something and like we're now tiffing, or something like that. And I am 35 and my sister will be 36. Like, and I will still call my mom and be like, hey, I don't know what her problem is, but you need to talk to her. Right. Inflation service, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Like, okay, what actually happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Exactly. But it's because she knows, again, she knows her kids. We are that. We know how to look at our kid. And it's like everybody else who thinks, oh, it's normal for their kid to nap. If my son comes to me and says, hey, mom, I'm not feeling good, or I'm gonna lay down and take a nap, he does not even have to say the words, I'm not feeling good. As soon as my son says, I'm going to take a nap, I know to call the doctor. That's not even a joke. This kid has not napped since he was six weeks old. Like he, the only time he naps is if he is legitimately sick. So I know, okay, there's something going on. Now, if his sister says, I'm gonna lay down and take a nap, okay, bye, I love you. She's fine. She's just tired. But but we know that. And that doesn't take a perfect parent. That just takes a mom who's there.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Right. And I think this is what's really important because there's a huge difference between, like, none of us are gonna get it right. Like I always say to my daughter, like, don't worry, you're gonna have plenty of things to go to therapy about from me. But our job is to be in tune with them and what they need. Not what they want, because you know, we're not here for that. But what do they need? Like, what do they need to thrive? What do they need to survive? But also, and this is a big thing for me. It's come up in a lot of my work lately. Like, how much of the shoulds are we leaning into? Like, how much are we caught up in our kids? Should be doing this and they should be doing that. And as my daughter gets older, I really feel it. Um again, the why. Why do I think this should be happening? Because what does she actually need? Does she need these things that she should be doing? I don't know. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. We have to work that out together. But it's my job to be in tune to what her needs are and help her thrive in the world, whatever that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Exactly. And and it can be hard to do when you're a mom and you're so bogged down with work and you're bogged down raising children and then just keeping house and everything else. Um, and you said something that I really loved, you know, we present to the world, but we're always presenting to the world. And it can be so lonely. And it's like earlier when you said you fell out of contact with some of your friends on a personal level, and that can happen so easily, especially when you're trying to be there for your family, be there for your job, and put on the show on both fronts. Um, you can be surrounded in a world full of people and feel completely isolated. And again, I think that's some that's why this is so important to talk about, because that's more normal than abnormal, but nobody wants to admit that they've been there. Like I can personally say I have been there many times, and the brain will play plenty of tricks on you, you know, and tell you, oh, you're the only one experiencing this, or everyone else is fine, and you're just a loony bin, and you know, and it's not true, it's more abnormal to feel like everything is fine, and it's actually everything is fine.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Exactly. Well, it's so true though, because and I think the loneliness and the isolation can really happen. And I think I work with a lot of parents of neurodivergent kids, and I see that a lot, this real sense of like no one else is going through what I am going through, like I don't know anyone else doing that. And it can be really all of parenthood, you know, can be really lonely in times. And other times you're reminded of just sort of the majesticness of connection and friendship when people actually show up for you how you need to be shown up for. And that's quite magical because the opposite of that is that isolation and loneliness that we talked about.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah. And speaking of raising a child with ADHD, I've got one myself. Um, you know, how has that experience shaped how you see systems like the education and support structures? And what's that journey been like for you?

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yeah, I mean, I say I feel like every Monday I put on my battle armor and I go into battle for one reason or another. There is someone that I am fighting with this week because her basic human needs are often, you know, being dismissed, or she's being told that she needs to change or fit in a box. It's been a huge journey for me because I actually was such a I've always been a quite outgoing person, but when it came to like authority and things like that, like I would never push back. I'd never sort of question the authorities or people about things. Right. I am just a very aggressive person when it comes to my daughter. And it's not even just the mama bear stuff. It's just like, why do you think that that's acceptable? Like that's not gonna work for me. And, you know, we've been, I've we've been on some interesting journeys together, Maisie and I. But there's been times in a hospital, there was a horrific time in a hospital when I knew she was really sick. We know our kids. You're making this up. And I was like, You've got 20 minutes to get the catheter out of her arm because I'm taking her to another hospital. Yeah. I'm done. I'm done. I've been with you guys for five days. I have slept on that shitty little bed and I've held her arms while you guys forget things or miss things or dismiss things. And I was like, You've got 20 minutes. And I was like, and she's been in hospital enough that she could probably take it out on her own. So it's up to you which way this plays out. And I literally grabbed her and I was like, no, this is not acceptable. And I left. And it was sort of like, I would never, I would never do that for me. That's the interesting thing. In the past, there is no world I would have had exactly the same experience and I would have quietly gone away and been like, I guess I made it up in my head. Like, but for her, I will go to, you know, I will walk to the ends of the earth. And and we've had to fight a lot for her to get her education. Um, we have these horrible things in the UK called an EHCP, which is like an education healthcare plan. And it's like a ridiculous system to have to go through it. And hundreds, thousands of parents are battling this system every week. And somebody said to me, like, I'm sure, like, sure, you could just do XYZ to get the provision for her. And I think maybe this is my own ADHD and my real sense of justice. But I'm like, no, because there will be another one of her another time. And yes, I'm fighting for her because that's what is her legal rights, like that's what she's entitled to, all of these things. But also, why would I quit? She's my kid. Yes. Why would I be like, yeah, honey, I think it's a great idea that you should have less than what you're entitled to because some bureaucrat doesn't care. Like, no. You're entitled to have these things to grow and thrive. And one thing that I've really learned with Maisie and parenting her is like, she's a brilliant kid. She is not gonna do everything on everyone else's timeline. Like, that's just not gonna happen. And again, these shoulds, right? Like, she should be taking her exams like this and she should be doing that. Why why should she? That doesn't work for her. That's a terrible, terrible idea for her. Do I think that she is going to be an amazing member of society and have something wonderful to contribute? A hundred percent. So does it matter if I scaffold her differently to a neurotypical kid who might not need that now? But maybe they need something else. And again, as parents, like my role is to help her thrive. And if there is a system in the way of her thriving, I myself and actually all of the parents that I talk to on a regular basis, like, we will fight for that.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Mm-hmm. And it's not easy. Yeah, like I know in America we have IEPs, individualized education programs. And I know when my son was first starting out, like it was just like pulling teeth. And it was now he's in high school, and we've kind of gotten a system, and he has his like resource educators, and the same person from the board we deal with every year for the meeting. So luckily it had it's gotten a little easier over time, but it's like, you know, at one point, um, he's dyslexic and he also has dysgraphia. Um, so one of his math teachers at one point years ago said, he is incredibly brilliant. Matter of fact, I think he was second grade. Um, she said, he's incredibly brilliant when he does math, except for he cannot follow the steps. And I'm supposed to grade them on following the steps, you know, and they were just learning how to do three-digit multiplication math problems. So she's like, he cannot write it out, but he can answer it. Yeah. And she said, and I asked him, just write it out for me. What does it look like in your brain? Put what you see in your head onto the paper. She said, Normally a child should go from A to B to C, should be a very linear path when dealing with this type of math. She said, Ethan does not go from A to B to C. He goes from A to C, and then somehow we're at N. She was like, and N wasn't even in the play playing field. Like she's like, but it's correct, and it's how his brain literally sees math. So he is very gifted when it comes to math, and it's like word problems, for example. He's dyslexic, he's had a hard time reading. My kid, he's like, okay, I know how to look for keywords. So he just goes and finds the relevant math-pertaining keywords and math problems, and he solves them that way, you know. And they're like, well, no, no, no, you should you should be taking these this way, and you should be writing out these things. And he's like, Why should I? And that's my question. When I go to these, I'm like, why should he? Why should he be showing you the stuff? I am an adult. When I go to do my taxes, nobody says, show me the math. They say, Do you have the receipts for it? Yeah, I got the receipts for it. They don't care after that.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

No, as long as I have the receipts up every step of the way, they just don't care, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah, they don't care that I have my 15-year-old over here using him as a human calculator. Not gonna lie. He literally looked at my math one day and said, Mom, you didn't convert the two over. I said, What are you talking about? And he was like, I don't know what this is, but you forgot to convert your two over. And I was like, Oh, I haven't had a first sip of coffee. I'm gonna need you to just fix it. Don't tell me why I told you why it didn't work. It is 5 15 in the morning. What are you talking about? This is not my stuff. But it's like you said, it's like they wanna, even though they have these specialized things and they're supposed to have access to resources that help them be their most authentic self and learn the way that they need to learn, they still fall into that thing of they should be doing this. Well, I don't care what they should be doing because, you know, one of the things in this country is IQ testing is making a big comeback. Well, you know, they want to IQ test, and that's fine, but you assume my son has a low IQ because he does not do things your way. That is a failure on your part. I mean, Albert Einstein failed mathematics. Yeah let's be real.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

That's such a huge thing. And I think this is a huge thing for identity for our kids. So basically similar. Maisie's autistic, and there was this English essay, English question that they get in these exams we do called GCSEs. And one of the questions was they had to read like the first few pages of Jamaica Inn, which is set here in the UK in Cornwall in the 1850s, and these people arrive from America by ship, and they get bundled into this horse and carriage, and it goes along the cliff edge, and it's raining and dark and miserable. And the question was, what does the author want the reader to understand about the setting? And Maisie was like, Well, it was raining and cold. And they were like, No, it was about this feeling of blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, Yeah, no, to you. They've asked you, you are right. That is the literal answer. That's not the answer that they want, but that's the literal answer. But there was a moment where I was like, you're never gonna get this question. And it wasn't a huge, it was like a four-marker or something like that. Yeah. I was like, before her teachers were like, you really need to think about this and you have to work through it. And can you find clue words? And I was like, your brain is never gonna work this way, ever. So look for words that have dual meanings. So does something have two meanings? Um, and spend as little time on it as possible. Move on to the next question. Because your brain's gonna be brilliant at that essay question where you get to explain your thoughts. Your thoughts are original and different. Yes. You were never ever going to be able to give them the answer they're looking for on that question. So stop killing yourself over it.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

A hundred percent. I had to do the exact same thing. Um, Ethan, my son, he was doing the Iliad and the Odyssey. And two of my favorites, um, I'm like, look, me and Homer, we go way back. You, however, my son, my darling sweet baby boy, um, you're not gonna get this shit. There's some things that you're gonna totally see, and because he his brain works, and it's so crazy to me how I am not creative at all, but the creative capacity in his brain, where he literally told me the one day, like he sees music. He can actually see music, and math is the same way, like he sees math, and I'm like, I don't know what that means. I cry at Trig, so um, I don't know what that means. I cry when I see the paper. But then when he starts doing these English problems, I know what he means because I can see it. It's like when I read a book, I see it. You know, his brain just does it with something else, and he cannot force it to turn on when we get to things like the Iliad, the Odyssey, Hamlet. His brain is like focused on why are we saying the old instead of the? What is happening here? Why are we using this? He can't get past that, just like I can't get past what an actual logarithm is. I'm like, what explain that to me? And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

That's just it. And it is okay. And there will be other things that you can do that other people just can't do. And I feel like the system, and again, the shoulds are so about, you know, look, it's about measuring en masse people's abilities, things like that. And I get that, but you are missing so much nuance. And I think a lot about, you know, because I was diagnosed when I was older, I think a lot about the kids that I went to school with that looking back obviously had ADHD or they had autism and had really horrible, horrible time because we weren't accepting of other people's experiences and we didn't care if you were struggling. And that's just kind of the way it was. You kind of fell out of the system ultimately because there wasn't support for you. And now I think, especially parents like us that grew up with us with that system to a fair degree, we're like, no, like our kids are capable of so much. Stop trying to put them in a box that's not meant for them.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Yeah, and and many parents are like you, where they're realizing or discovering their own neurodivergence while raising their children. And that can come up with its own challenges. And what are some that, you know, as a parent who who went through this journey that you navigated, how are you, how were you able to do that together with your daughter?

SPEAKER_01 39:27

You know what? I always say that my favorite ABCs are awareness before change. I amazing therapist I worked with used to say that all the time. And I think it's the biggest thing because for me, it was like, wow, I've gone through my life. I was 44 when I got diagnosed. Um I've believed this stuff about myself for 44 years, that I was just kind of flighty, that I was sort of, I was, you know, I could start things, but I couldn't see them through. I wasn't consistent. These were big faults in me. And actually, they're not. They're just the way my brain works. But now that I know that, and I know what a hyperfixation is, and I understand like rejection-sensitive dysphoria, mind blown. Like for me, that was life-changing. Oh, I feel every rejection a hundred thousand times more than any neurotypical person. Like that for me has been huge because I can stop now and be like, am I this upset? Or is this my RSD? Like, would anyone crying in the toilets because some man is weirdly in the in the queue for the supermarket? Like, maybe like he wasn't looking at you. Like maybe maybe he was looking at the person behind you and not like that person hates me. Um, so that's been huge for me. And I think for both of us, it's this kind of sense of navigating. Oh, that's that, and that's that. And yeah, there are definitely, we are very similar, but also very different. Like, she is really liberal, and it takes me a while to sort of like, because I said the other day, can you just go put something on that? And she, and I meant like, could you clean it up? And so she just went over and put a paper towel on top of like I think it was cat sick or something, and just left it there. And I was like, Okay, what happened? And she's like, Well, you told me to put something on. I was like, Okay, yeah, okay, I did. My bad. Like, yes, you're right. I didn't do that. And also when we both get excited about something, it's like, okay, how do we do this? But I think it can be really difficult because I think less so with our kids, but for us as adults, I really see that there's a journey that people go on when they're like diagnosed, and this sort of sense of I think people often feel like there's a sense of regression, but there's sadness and anger about it could have been so different. Like, how was that missed? What could my life have been different? What would have been different if I hadn't believed that I was all of these things that actually I'm not, because my brain just doesn't work that way. So I think for both of us, there's a sense of awareness. And again, I'm someone who's very much like, that's just the way it is. Like, I don't have any, I know people that are like, oh, I don't disclose my diagnosis. And I'm like, yeah, what you see is what you get. I don't know what to tell them. That I'm not neurodivergent. Um and I get it. It can be a really personal thing, and people can respond badly. But I do think for Maisie and I, navigating life sort of side by side, as a parent, knowing these things, having this information, means I can let some of the shits go. And I can be like, well, that's you're never gonna answer that question. I am never gonna ask you to come home and be like, wow, you got that wrong. What's wrong with you? Like, who cares? Move on. Your brain's not working. Your brain does, she writes the most amazing music. I'm like, my brain can't do that. And to her, it's like really simple and easy. And I'm like, what? It's just different. And I think holding on to that and holding on to that desire, like, we all want our kids to thrive in the world. And what that looks like should be different for everyone. Again, going back to that perfect parent idea, like, there's no perfect life for your kid. What makes them happy? What helps them thrive? What do they want? What are they interested in? And those things for me, coming back, getting rid of the shoulds, and focusing on what does she need to thrive? What do we need to have fun? Like, yes. So easy when you're in a struggle, and especially with indie kids or kids that need additional support for whatever reason, like life can become relatively humorless because you're fighting the system all the time. You're just fighting for like the barest minimum, and it can be exhausting. Playfulness. Is so important. So yeah, I think those are the things you have to hold on to. Is like it's a journey. None of us are coming out of this alive. So at the end. Can we be silly? Can we be stupid? Like, what's your hyperfixation? You know, tell me all about your latest hyperfixation. I'm here for it. Like, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I know. I love when I can get my son on the same like hyperfixation as me at the same time. And then we just drive my husband up a wall. It's so fun though.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Recently, like the biggest way you can show a neurodivergent person love is to ask them about their hyperfixation and then listen to them about it, but maybe like time cap it. Like, I'm not gonna listen for your hyperfixation. But unfortunately, I just want to know what do you know? What are you excited about?

SPEAKER_00 44:57

You know, yeah, and it makes, like you said, it puts fun back into our lives because we can't lose that. And what advice would you give to parents who feel like they're constantly having to advocate for their children in systems that don't seem well, they're supposed to be designed to support them, right? But they really don't seem like it because you're constantly fighting them.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah, I think my biggest thing is like, I see you. I see you, I get it, I know how hard it is, I know how exhausting it is. And I think my other thing in that is just you matter as well in the fight. You know, it's really easy, easy to just become like the annoying mom or that person who's constantly like pulling people up on stuff and emails, and it can be really exhausting, but like you matter and what you're doing matters. And nobody sees that. That's the hardest part. For most of that journey, nobody else gets to see that. But, you know, other people know it. And the knowing it's seeing doesn't necessarily have to happen at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Absolutely. And kind of on that same path, let's talk a little bit about mental health and self-compassion because these are two things. One, I'm I love mental health conversations. Any chance I get to talk about it, I'm here for it. Um, it's so important in parents and in children. I think we kind of think of our kids and we think, oh, well, now they're 15, 16, 17, 18. Now we have to start worrying about their mental health. That's absolutely hogwash. Um, children have mental health from day one. Uh, as soon as they start learning and absorbing, their mental health is being written on. So it is our job to gauge as parents that that health capacity as they move through their stages of life. And of course, it changes as they grow and get older. But it's hard to do when you're struggling with your own mental health. And self-compassion is one of those things that mothers in particular, and I will tell you this, I love my husband dearly, but he has said to me he can turn it off. So where I will stress, stress, stress, stress, stress, and worry up a storm to the point where I'm physically nauseous and it is eating away at me. My husband can sleep like a baby and just snooze like no no worry in the world. And it's because he can turn it off. He's like, there's a time and a place that I worry about it, and then I move forward, and I realize like I have to turn that off and move on. And I'm like, that sounds like disassociation. Like, that doesn't sound healthy. Like, and yeah, and he's like, no, I'm not disassociating. I'm acknowledging that there's an issue there. I'm willing to come back to it, look at it, gain more problem or gain more solutions for the problem, move on. Like, he's like, but I can't sit there and let it eat me alive. What's what's that doing? And I'm like, I can't just turn it off. Yeah, how how do you turn? But mothers, we do that. We are really big about holding everything and putting all the blame on ourselves. Everything that could possibly go wrong, whether it's a scraped knee, a bad IEP meeting, whatever it may be, at the end of the day, when we are laying there in the darkest moments, unable to sleep, we're like, man, I should have said this, or I should have done this, or if I would have done this, this would be different. So self-compassion is so important because we all need, we give others grace. We give so much grace to everyone but ourselves. So you have spoken about the importance of this and exhaustion and framing it as people, you know, we do, we frame it as a personal failure. Why do you think so many women internalize burnout as something that they are personally doing wrong?

SPEAKER_01 49:11

I think there's so many things, but I think we've been sold a lie. We've been sold a lie that we can have it all if we work hard enough, if we are good enough. And that is a really toxic lie to be sold, because it means if you don't get what you want or your life doesn't look like someone else's Instagram life or all of those things, that you you just don't want it enough. You didn't work hard enough. You could be working, well, 60, 80 hours a week, and you're not getting there because society, like because of in infrastructure problems in society because of poverty, because of mental health, of illness, all of those things. You didn't not work hard enough. The deck was stacked against you. Like those are hugely different things. And I think we've kind of grown up with that. You can be anything you want if you just try hard enough. Like, no, I'm 50. I'm not gonna be an astronaut. I could want to be an astronaut more than anything in the bloody world. I maybe I can go into a little bit of space, but I'm not joining NASA. Like, I could learn the math, I could learn the engineering, I could whatever. No one's gonna be like, yeah, we've been waiting for a 55-year-old woman to go into space who's never been there before, doesn't know what she's doing. Like, I think we have been sold this idea that when I compare it to an astronaut, or like I suddenly decide I'm gonna be some sort of Olympic sprinter, like I can't run for the bus. That's not gonna happen. We do believe that there's a failure if we don't get that thing. Yeah. So if we don't have the money, or we don't have the clothes, or we don't look perfect, or our kids have fallen at a hurdle, or their mental health is slipping. It's like, well, we are the problem because we didn't work hard enough, do good enough. All of those things that are absolutely ridiculous, really, when you stop and think about it. And that's where the self-compassion is like, could you have done differently? Well, not with everything I knew. Now I could, because I know more. But no, you couldn't. And actually, what you said about a friend and how much we give grace to other people, I think that's so important because a lot of times I'm talking to people and I'd be like, Well, what would you say to a friend that would do this? And people are kind and they're considerate and they're thoughtful and they're forgiving and they're full of grace. And then they're about themselves. They're like, Why are you so stupid? Why do you always do this? Like, you're so irresponsible. Why are you so lazy? I'm like, whoa! Like, that is a mean person that is living in your head. Like, yeah, you know, like, and I think I've I don't know if I said this to you before when we were chatting, but I have this voice in my head and I've named him Rumpel Stiltskin after the little goblin from the fairy tale. Because when you say his name out loud in the fairy tale, he has like a little tantrum and he falls through. And if that voice gets going, and I've worked really, really hard, I don't think you ever get rid of the voice completely. I think it's been a part of his life, my entire life. But he is a little green goblin. And when he gets going with the like, what's wrong with you? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm a bit like, okay, rumple-stilt skin. Like, rumple stilt skin, rumple-stilt skin. Because I don't actually, deep down, I don't believe those things about myself. I don't think that I'm horrible, lazy, incompetent, horrible mother. That's just a negative voice. And I need to have compassion for myself to be like, no, you know what? Like, I'm actually doing okay. And if Maisie has to go to therapy in years and she'll have, I mean, I keep saying, you'll have plenty to talk about, I'm sure. You just there's stuff we don't know, there's stuff I don't know, there's stuff that I think I'm doing is the right thing. Only time will tell whether it's the right thing, you know. But I think showing up with self-compassion for yourself, you know, why are you beating yourself with a stick that nobody else wants to touch?

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Yeah. You're doing good enough.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

And there it comes back to you. It's always again that just be enough. Just be enough.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Like you are to be thinner or reading more, or I don't know, whatever. You don't need to do you are enough now, and you matter now. And so let's work from a point of that rather than you can get there, you you're there.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Meet yourself and just be happy to be there. I think we talk about reinvention, and that's great. You know, I think they're again, it's like you said, our values change. I'm gonna be really honest. I had my son at 19 going on 20. Um, I am not the same person at 35 that I was at 19. Like, I if I had not grown, there would be a problem. We are constantly reinventing ourselves, whether it's by small decisions here and there, or it's like you said, reevaluating our values. Like at some point, certain certain things change and we're not willing to, you know, we draw a hard line in the sand and we say we're not willing to let this, you know. For me, I'll just share this. It's letting family feel like they have complete access to you all the time, um, is something that I realize, no, just because you're my family doesn't mean you have the right to have complete access to me or my child. No. So if I feel like there needs to be a barrier there, or if I feel like I need to put up a road guard and say, no, we do have boundaries. You can either respect them and be in our lives, or you can go the other way. That's okay. And that's acceptable because I am protecting not only my child, but my own sense of peace. Yeah. And I think that that is so important for women. Because guys don't care. Yeah. I'm I'm just gonna they do not care.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

We're carrying everything, right? We're carrying that mental load and the person that they come to in a crisis and all of those things. And I really hear what you're saying about like sometimes those lines are really hard lines, and sometimes they're soft lines, and you can kind of like move them. But again, like what's important to you? And I think we think of reinvention as like a movie reinvention, like a full-on like montage and a makeover. Like someone's like running through Central Park as like the the weird nerdy girl, and she comes out like, oh look, hi, I'm amazing, and we're like, wow. Like, that's not how that's not what reinvention looks like. Like, it's like it's just reiteration of who we are. And it's 2 a.m. and we're in the kitchen and we're crying over something that seems ridiculous because it doesn't align with our values anymore. That's what, you know, that's what growth looks like. It's sadly, it doesn't come with like a banging soundtrack and a full-on makeover moment. Like it comes because you're in the kitchen at 2 a.m. and you're going, this isn't what I wanted. Like, I don't feel aligned with myself. Something is off. I don't like it. That's where the magic happens. The magic doesn't happen after the makeover, right? It happens in the messy ugliness of I don't know, and I'm like ugly crying into a cup of tea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Absolutely. Because it's like you said, you go through these moments where sometimes reinvention can happen when little good things are happening in life. And that's great. Um, but really, it's like you said earlier, it's very beginning. Something normally forces it. There's a stressor, there's some action, external force that says, okay, wait a minute. I need to re-evaluate and look. And whether that is family or work or whatever, it's not going to be a glamorous transformation. And it sometimes takes a while to actually see the fruit of that reinvention. I know personally, I just I can't even remember the last time. For example, I used to love to go out and we would go to the clubs and we would drink and everything like that. And I can't even remember the last time I was in a pub. Besides, oh no, that's not true. I actually just went to a pub to paint a potter's, like little plant potters with my sisters. Um, they did like charcuterie boards and paint your own planner. Okay. So we had a sister's date. So I did just do that, but actually have a drink? I can't tell you. You know, because to me, that's one of those things where it's like, I always worry, what if something happens to one of the kids or my husband or my family, and I've had a couple too many to drink, and I can't drive, and it's just not a priority, right? Like, do I remember the day that I said this is no longer a priority? No. I don't remember that day. Do I remember the day my child was born and I said, okay, I'm gonna do way better for him, and I'm gonna be the mom that he needs to be? Yeah. Do I remember failing many times at that promise that I made to that seven pounds, two-ounce little boy? I sure do. And do I remember the times that I got back up and said, that's okay, you're gonna keep no, I don't. But over time, I can look back and I can say, oh, this is what was going on in our life. This is why these decisions were made. And it's like, you know, my son, he's ADHD, has ODD, he's dyslexic, he has dysgraphia. The only one of those things I had any idea what they were was dyslexic, and that's because I grew up dyslexic. You know what the cure for dyslexia was back in my day? Read a book.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

We were so they were so great back then, weren't they?

SPEAKER_00 59:17

They were like, oh well. So they're like, okay, you can't you can't see the letters properly to make out sight words, but read a book. And you know what? To this day, I read a book a day because I'm afraid if I don't read, oh my gosh, am I not going to be able to recognize words? So, like, it it's trained me from a very young age to you have to be always reading. That's not something I wanted for my son. Like, so it's like, okay, let's look at different sources. Let's do this, let's, you know, figure this out. I had to again become aware and educate myself and move forward. That's what you do as a parent. Do I remember the day I sat down and did that? Absolutely not. Because it took so many, so much time to even get a pediatrician to listen to what I was saying and to listen to what his head starts and preschool teachers were saying that it was years, like two years of battling it. Right? You're just battling all. But did my values change in that two years? Oh, you can believe it did, because it went from something's wrong here to I had I shifted that thinking very quickly to no, there's nothing wrong with my child. There's something going on, and I don't know what it is to help him. There's nothing wrong with him. He is exactly who he needs to be. But I don't remember when that, and that is a reinvention of itself. Is I literally took it is the same problem. It was just I reframed in my brain the way I was looking at it, because it had nothing to do with him.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

It's just it. It's nothing to do with them. And like you said, as you learn, you change your opinion, your approaches, all of those things. And it's tricky, but we we need to do that for ourselves as well. Like with the compassion, with the like, oh, why do I do this? Oh, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. I think a lot of that change happens. You only see it in the rearview mirror, right? You don't see it coming, you see it when it passes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

I agree. And so for someone who's listening and maybe feels lost in their identity right now, or maybe they're in the middle of reinventing themselves and they don't see it yet, what would you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

I think that, you know, you matter is always a big one. But I think more than that is look for the things that light you up. Like, look for, is there something you used to love? Like, did you used to draw and you just haven't done it because kids and life and stuff is hard? Like, do you still like that? Or what do you like now? Do you have you discovered something else? I think looking for those those glimmers instead of triggers, but I think those are really important because they help you understand who you are. Yes. Because you loved, I don't know, care bears as a kid doesn't mean, you know, well, if they're back, but maybe still lost their 50. I don't know. I'm not like I'm not like sitting here waiting for cabbage patch kids to come back. That was more than anything in the world when I was eight, right? Like, but there are some things, you know, imagining, playing pretend, you know, I created a career out of that ultimately. Like that is still really important to me. So I think look for the things that spark, that spark a little bit of joy in you and see how you can foster that because that will be there'll be little guiding lights along your way. I think that's really important. And I think meet you, meet yourself always where you are. Don't think that you should be somewhere else. Why do you think you should be? Why do you think you should be on, I don't know, the partner track in a career you've just started? Or now that you have got on the partner track, why do you think you should be happy with that? And so you should shut up and put up. Like ignore the shoulds. What is your heart telling you? Who are you? Who what do you value? Those are the things that I always sit with people and sort of say, let's look at that, because that is gonna tell you a lot more than you know, some big deep therapy session that I love therapy, it's brilliant. I wouldn't be here probably without therapy. But when you're lost, that feels overwhelming a lot of the time. Yeah. So reach for the low-hanging fruit. Like if you haven't, if you love reading and you haven't read in a while, like read a newspaper article or read for five minutes. Or, you know, it doesn't have to be a big giant thing that changes things. Yeah.

unknown 1:04:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

So that was a whole bunch of advice.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

Hey, we'll take it all, right? And why do you believe honest storytelling and conversations is such a powerful tool for healing and connection?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

Well, I think because of like this. Like you and I live in different places, we are different ages, we have different backgrounds, we're in different countries. I think we have such a connection because we were honest and vulnerable about our experiences. And I think, especially in a world at the moment with AI and, you know, technology and all of those things, nothing beats knowing in your heart of hearts that some another human being sees you. It could be for a moment, it could be for a lifetime, it could be for whatever. But, you know, we've had an hour together, and that feels so good for the soul because I see you and you see me. And I think those are the stories since we sat around fire for the first time and we talked about the scary woolly mammoth that killed someone in a neighboring village, in a neighboring tribe. Those are the days we've told stories as a way to understand each other, to connect with each other. And I think, especially now, that is really, really important to us as human beings.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

Oh, I agree. Technology is beautiful because it does allow conversations like this to happen. I mean, you're in the UK, I'm in America, and we're able to sit here and have this conversation and talk, and that's a wonderful thing. But then you have technology that is replacing that human connection. And that is where it gets I hate to say, if you take somebody who is already feeling down and lonely, and you have that technology that is further removing them, it's almost like an abusive partner, right? Where they isolate, continue to isolate. You and it's just negative reinforcement of your own thoughts, and you don't have that person that sees you and says, Wait, wait, wait a minute. Wait, no, Emily, you're beautiful, you're enough, you're here, and that's what matters. And you have technology that just seems like, oh, everything's against me and I'm failing. That leads to bad things. So I do love having these conversations, and I think they're a powerful tool to not only does it let me connect, but I think it lets our audience connect because they're like, okay, you have your aspect, I have my aspect, and they have theirs that they're probably yelling in their car right now, and they're like, oh wait, no, I got one for you girls. Like you know, we're here for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

Like exactly. That's it. And because how many times in our life have you had a moment where someone says, you know, whatever? I mean, so I mean, someone said to me once that they didn't have any noise in their head, and I was like, I'm sorry, what? And they were like, No, it's quiet. And I was like, No, that doesn't happen to people. Like, I didn't know that wasn't thing. But as soon as I say to someone else, oh yeah, I have this constant like chatter, they're like, Oh yeah, me too. And I'm like, oh wow, okay, so they're the weird one, not me. Um Mr. No Voice in his head. It must be weird to be alone all the time. Um, I would take sometimes, but I do think like just seeing your own experience reflected in someone else's words is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:37

Absolutely. I agree. And where can our listeners go to connect with you and learn more about your work that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

Yeah, everything is. I always say the best jumping off point is my website, which is emilybeecher.com. Um, it's got links to everything else and everything that I'm kind of working on. So that's always the best place to get me for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

Perfect. And we will make sure we put a link for that in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

And thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. It's been such a blast. And I just I love what you're doing, and I love how much you're here for the mamas, and you know, you're doing a really beautiful thing for them. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

Thank you. We appreciate it. We're glad you were able to come on today. Well, that's it for today, you beautiful caffeinated disasters. If any of this resonated with you, hit that follow button. And if you would, please leave us a review. It really helps other tired moms and dads find the show. And if you want to become a supporter of the show, or just keep us caffeinated so we can keep bringing the chaos every Tuesday, head over to our Buzzprout page at mom's brain is a coffee stain.buzzsprout.com. Even a couple bucks means the world and helps us keep the coffee and the show flowing. Now you can become a subscriber of the show and get access to new episodes two days early. And don't forget, check us out on social media. You can find us everywhere at mom's brain is a coffee stain. You can also slide into our DMs or email us your best no guilt hacks, crungiest mom moments, or episode requests at mom's brain is a coffee stain at outlook.com. Then head over to check out Emily's website at emilybeecher.com to see all the wonderful projects, including helping moms like us feel less alone. We will put the links in the show notes as always. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have three puppies that are demanding my attention and would really like to go for a W A L K. Love y'all, mean it. Go sip one for us, and we'll see you next Tuesday!