Play Dumb & Sabotage: Simple Speech Therapy Strategies Every Parent Can Use with Jeaneen Tang

What if one of the best ways to help your child communicate was to do a little less?

In this eye-opening episode of Mom’s Brain Is a Coffee Stain, Kayla sits down with Jeaneen Tang, certified Speech-Language Pathologist, author, and early language development expert, to discuss how parents can support their child's communication skills through everyday interactions.

With more than 20 years of experience working with children and adults, Jeaneen shares practical, easy-to-implement strategies that help children build language skills naturally through play, conversation, and daily routines. She also opens up about her personal journey as the mother of a son who experienced a traumatic brain injury and stroke as a toddler, and how faith, persistence, and communication-focused parenting helped him defy the odds.

Jeaneen explains the philosophy behind her book, Play Dumb & Sabotage, and why "mindfully under-anticipating" your child's needs can create valuable opportunities for language growth.

In This Episode We Discuss:

• Key speech and language milestones parents should watch for
• How adults influence a child's language development
• The difference between speech delays and typical development
• Why reading, singing, and play are critical for communication growth
• What "Play Dumb & Sabotage" means and how to use it at home
• Easy ways to encourage language during meals, playtime, and daily routines
• Why offering choices can boost communication skills
• The role of screen time and technology in language development
• Supporting children with speech delays, developmental differences, and special needs
• How technology and AAC devices can help nonverbal children communicate
• Why early intervention matters and how to navigate speech therapy services
• How parents can build communication skills without feeling overwhelmed

A Powerful Reminder

✨ You don't know what you don't know

✨ Asking for help is a sign of strength, not failure

✨ Small daily interactions have a huge impact on your child's communication skills

✨ Early support can make a lifelong difference

Key Takeaway

You don't need to be a speech therapist to help your child develop strong communication skills.

By slowing down, creating opportunities for interaction, and being intentional with everyday moments, parents can make a tremendous impact on their child's language development.

Guest Information

Jeaneen Tang
Certified Speech-Language Pathologist

📘 Author of:
Play Dumb & Sabotage: Mindfully Under-Anticipating the Child's Needs and Creating Opportunities to Practice Language

🌐 Website:
https://www.playdumbandsabotage.com/

Show Information

Follow the show:

📱 @momsbrainisacoffeestain

Support the podcast:

https://Momsbrainisacoffeestain.Buzzsprout.com

Want to be a guest on Mom's Brain Is A Coffee Stain | Parenting Teens, Mom Life & Real Conversations?

Send Kayla a message on PodMatch:

https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/momsbrainisacoffeestain

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome to Mom's Brain is a Coffee Stain, the only podcast clinically proven to raise your blood pressure and your dopamine. I'm Kayla, Millennial Mom, current chaos coordinator of two spoil giants who think budget is a TikTok sound. Today we're talking with Janine Tang, certified speech language pathologist, mom, and author of Play Dumb and Sabotage. Well, let's jump on in. Thank you for joining the show with us today, Janine.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yes, well, it is exciting, and I don't have the opportunity to speak with many speech language pathologists, and you've been doing that for over 20 years, working with children and adults. What inspired you to pursue this field?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

I've always wanted to help people, and I think, you know, thinking back, people always say, How did you get into speech therapy? And, you know, I thought all the way back till I was eight years old, and my grandfather was ill. He ended up passing away. And I remember feeling at the time like really helpless. Like I wanted to be able to help him more. And so it really sparked this like need and want to help people. And I thought, well, what can I do? And I thought maybe I'll be a teacher. And then in high school I played a lot of sports. I was like, maybe I'll be a physical therapist. And you know, I looked down that physical therapy path, but I really liked English literature. And so I knew I had to get a graduate degree for physical therapy. So I got my undergraduate degree in English literature. And then when it came time to apply to grad school, someone was like, Oh, have you thought about speech therapy? Because that incorporates communication and language and all that stuff. And I was like, Oh, I hadn't really heard about it because I didn't need speech therapy myself and I didn't know anybody directly that needed speech therapy. But when I looked into it, I thought it was a perfect fit for me because it was really helping people and it was able to, you know, lean upon my English degree, working on language and communication. And I've been doing it since 2001, and you know, I enjoy it so much. I love working with two, you know, all different populations. So I love working with kids for early language development. I've worked in the schools for a long time, and I also work with adults in hospitals. And so it's yeah, I love working with all populations. So it's hard to pick just one, but my passion is really for that early language development, and it's really where I want to make the biggest impact in my career.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

And what drew you to lean specifically towards the early childhood language development?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I think for one, you know, I have a son who's 13. And, you know, even though I've been working doing speech therapy way before he was born, uh, unfortunately when he was 13 months old, he had a brain injury from falling off of our bed, and then he had a stroke. So I learned very much firsthand what it was to be a parent of a special needs child. And although I loved working with kids before that, even, um, you know, my drive was really to get him to be as communicative and uh be successful in indicating his needs and wants, expressing his ideas, being able to have conversations. And, you know, now he's 13 and he's, you know, he's making all kinds of funny jokes. He's, you know, he still has a lot of special needs. But, you know, working firsthand as a special needs parent really just compounds your interest and desire and passion for helping those kids because without that uh foundation of language, it's so difficult to become a you know functioning adult in the world.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Absolutely. And they initially told you that your son might never walk or talk, yet he did continue to grow and develop. What helped you stay helpful during that time?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I really truly believe that it was just uh fate, faith, sorry, fate, fate and faith, right? So the faith that my son was a very uh innocent uh baby, right, when this happened, and uh the faith that he would uh recover to some degree if we were able to put all of our focus on him. And uh uh that's all you can really do. You can't just be like, well, I'm gonna wish it's gonna happen. You have to really just kind of believe it and put as much energy and time and focus on that. And having all the experience that I had at that point as a speech language pathologist, I, you know, used everything that I knew and learned even more on how to work with him, specializing in brain injury and stroke and and being able to work with him every day. I think that was what was really important as well. You know, people say, Do you ever do speech therapy with your son? And I'm like, all the time. You know, whether he knows it or not. Every single interaction with him is leaning upon my profession, but also adding on that maternal upbringing for him because that's what he is thriving with. Right right now, he's he's in is he's in seventh grade and he's in middle school, and it's super difficult for him to, you know, make and maintain friends, but he's doing the best he can. And, you know, when you look at where his brain injury and stroke was, it was on the left side of the brain, which is typically where our language center is, right? And the damage was very extensive. It was a very short fall, but very big damage. You know, the stroke was a large stroke. And if you saw that in a d in an adult, you would suspect that they would not be able to communicate almost at all, right? They're not able to understand or express. But because he was so young and because he had so much therapy and just, you know, mindful uh language development throughout his years, he's able to have a c good conversation. He's able to remember a lot of things, and he's able to perform at a level that is pretty defying the odds of someone who has that injury.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

That is absolutely amazing. And let's talk a little bit more about understanding early language development, you know, maybe not as necessarily as it pertains to when there's a TBI or something like that. But I think it's most parents, we kind of wonder, you know, is our child on track speaking or walking or whatever it may be. But I know specifically for myself, I was always like, is my child on track because he, you know, his S are weird or he doesn't say his T's right, you know? And so you kind of you start reading books, or maybe like the people these days they might turn to like YouTube or something. Um and what are some early milestones that people, parents, they can be aware of?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Absolutely. So, you know, you don't have this manual with for your child, right? You get to learn how to put a diaper in the child, give the child a di a bottle or whatever it is. But as far as like learning how what the child is supposed to be developing, you don't know that unless you're researching it or you're told to told it by somebody. Um but the big milestones are, you know, is a child turning to sound, right? So you want to make sure that they can hear well. So, you know, they always test the baby's hearing before they leave the hospital, but that can always change over time. And so you want to make sure that they're they are hearing, they're turning to the sound of a toy or the sound of your voice. Uh, you want them to start babbling, right? Around, you know, they start laughing around what age four months to five months around there, their true laugh. And then they start babbling and vocal playing around, you know, between then and like nine months, a lot of intonation changes. You'll hear a lot of ma da da. And then they start mimicking like adult intonation. And between that like 10 months, 12, 11, 12 months, up to maybe 13, 14 months, is that when that's when you're gonna hear their first like real word, right? So a lot of times people say, Oh, they're saying mama. I was like, Oh, they're not really saying mama, they're playing with their voice, right? They're right, they're experimenting with different sounds, but until they're saying mama for actual like a mom, like specifically and consistently, that's not their real word yet. But a lot of times it might be ball or car or mom or dad or whatever it is, or up, right? So things like that that's meaningful, that they can do consistently, not just like, oh, one time and then done. Um so you want to say see that about one year old. But I always say that some kids speak as early as 10 months, and some kids might speak at 13 or 14 months old. And then from there, between one one year and two years old, you want them to get all this vocabulary, a lot of single words, and develop two-word utterances by the time they're two years old. And then by the time they're three, they should say at least three to four, four or five words in a sentence or phrase at a time, right? And every child is a little bit different. Some kids speak really early, and some kids are a little bit delayed, right? And so a lot of times for myself, my real focus is on helping the parents learn different strategies so we can help those kids who are a little bit delayed or might be, you know, needing speech therapy down the line to nip that in the bud and be able to practice language in a real functional way so that they can get those repetitions in before there is this big gap of like, you know, a lot of times kids will come in at two and a half years old to speech therapy and they don't really have any real words at all yet. And there is this, you know, this idea of they don't the parents don't know what to expect, right? There's this idea of um, I don't want my child to have uh a special need, right? And then the parents also their ego of, am I not being a good parent if my child's not talking? So all of this compounds, and without the knowledge and the strategies, you might have a child who is going to need speech therapy that might not have needed it if the parents were educated better, they practiced those strategies early on, and they were able to help to close that gap earlier than waiting until they're two and a half.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Absolutely. And in your experience, how does the way the adults in a child's life and and they interact with them really imp or impact their overall language development?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah, parents, adults, anybody who's interacting with children, they play such a key role in how the child is learning language, right? First we have to understand language, and then we can express it. So you have to think about these kids as like sponges. Every interaction you have with them, there are they are soaking that in, whether it's singing with them, getting down on the floor, getting eye to eye with them, making funny faces, vocal playing, you know, they have these mirroring genes. We all have mirroring genes, right? We want to copy somebody that's doing something. So when we start doing things with them, they start copying us. And if we also in turn kind of copy them, right? If they make a sound and then we make the same sound and then we kind of change it up a little bit, then they're like, oh, this is like a like a play. This is like a conversation interaction play, even though it might not be actual words, right? It's just sounds, it's body language, it's gestures, facial expressions. It's so important to have that interaction, right? So I had this one girl who started speech therapy right after two years old, and she was a really, really good baby, right? So the parents didn't understand or know that was their first child, that you had to interact with them so much. So she was really good, she never really cried. So they would, you know, feed her, swaddle her, whatever, and let her be. And she was just on her own, but they didn't know you had to sing with them or read to them, right, or play with them. And so they would do a lot of things for her, and that she would never really complain. She would never cry or whine or tantrum. So she they just thought, okay, well, she's developing, but they didn't realize that all of those missed opportunities were really impacting her language development and how she was able to then, you know, express herself. She was delayed, um, she's caught up now, you know, she's older now, but it was those integral parts of development where you really need to, you know, practice and play and have that child learn that they are they are impacting the world by making sounds and gestures and facial expressions. And then you are also interacting with them with that.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yes, absolutely. I remember when I had my son, I was a young mom, my mom always used to say, remember, it's pee and repeat. So the best thing you can do is read to them. No matter how young they are, read to them. Make the silly sounds when you're reading the book, have a different character voice. They don't care that you don't actually sound like a dinosaur or whatever. Um, but she's like, it gives them that inflection for them to be able to tell, like, this is a different character. And, you know, she's like, so just read to them, no matter. So I know we always we always read to my son because, and you know, now he's 15 and he never stops talking. But speaking about books, your book has a very intriguing title, play, dumb, and sabotage. What does that mean? And how did you choose that approach?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Oh, yes. I love, you know, I've been using that term play dumb and sabotage for so many years in my career. And the subtitle is kind of supposed to explain it a little bit, right? So it's mindfully under-anticipating the child's needs and creating opportunities to practice language. So when we break it down, you know, as parents or caregivers, teachers, we should know, right? We should be able to anticipate what a child might need or want, right? A child loves a certain toy or certain food, or they love to do a certain activity or whatever it is. And as first-time parents, especially especially, we tend to overdo for our kids, right? We give them five toys they love, or they're gonna we're gonna give them their whole bowl of goldfish, or we're gonna give them whatever they might need or want before they even realize that they need or want anything. So playing dumb is knowing what the child might need or want, but mindfully stepping back so the child can indicate or learn to indicate or communicate what they might need or want. And then the sabotage part is all about practice and repetition, right? So if you think about a basketball player, if they're gonna shoot free throws, they're not just gonna shoot it every once in a while, right? Not once during practice, they're gonna do it over and over again until they reach mastery or a level of uh accuracy that is, you know, more consistent, right? So if we think about something really simple like snack, if you're doing goldfish or whatever Cheerios, instead of giving them the whole bowl of goldfish, give them a couple pieces and then have the rest of the goldfish inside but out of reach. So then, you know, they're gonna consume the goldfish and then they're gonna want more typically, right? So they can learn to sign for more, they can sign more please, they can start saying more, they can, you know, work up to a sentence like, I want more goldfish, please. And then you can work up to things like, oh, how many goldfish do you want? Do you want two goldfish or three goldfish? And I like to hold things about shoulder width apart so you can they can you can see where they're looking, even if they're not able to say it sometimes, right? Right. So when my son was little, even though he couldn't talk, I would say, I would talk to him all the time, right? Because you don't know vocabulary unless you're exposed to it, right? So I'd be like, oh, what should we wear today? Should we wear the green shirt or the blue shirt? And I would hold it about shoulder width apart. And whatever he would look at, I'm like, oh yeah, let's wear the blue shirt. You know, that's a great color. That's my favorite color. It's a color of the sky, you know. So I mean, then I would kind of do what we call language bombardment. I would talk about that vocabulary term and expand what it what it is about that vocabulary term that I can say. So the blue of the sky, blue of the ocean, you know, I love the color blue, whatever it is. And by that, the child is absorbing all that receptive communication, right? Understanding, and then hopefully be able to express that. So when we work look at the book, Play Dumb and Sabotage, it's really about creating ways to functionally use certain strategies throughout the child's day in order to promote language in a more natural way rather than, you know, one of the chapters is don't ask a yes-no question unless you're ready to honor the no. Right. And a lot of times we ask kids, can you say this? Can you pick that up? Are you ready to do your homework? Are you ready to go to bed? Right. And the child will go, no.

unknown 18:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Oh, we're gonna do it anyway. Right. So if you're telling the child that you're still gonna do it, even though you just told me no or indicated no, then the child's like, well, you know, you're not, I'm not trusting you anymore because I've already told you no. And then why are you asking me to do it still, still?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah. And as my mom used to say, if you tell or if a child tells you no, and then you go and go, okay, well, we're gonna do it anyways, you've broken down what the meaning of no is. It means we're gonna do it anyway. So every time you tell them no now, they're gonna be like, I'm gonna do it anyways. So I'm like, good point. That's what I heard when I was a teenager. But and it's so true because we grew up, my um, I started raising my son when we lived in Ohio, and for most of his like early development, like pre-K and stuff like that, we lived in Kentucky. And my son, he always said, Ka, like he was from Boston or New York. And I'm like, no, there's an R at the end of that. It's car, you know, like, and he would get so upset if you would just hold the car and not give it to him. But I realized if I could set it up on like top of the microwave so he could still see it, and I'd be like, okay, where does a car go? And he'd be like, on the road, you know. And I'm like, okay, what else is on the road with cars? And he'd be like, trucks, I love trucks, you know. And we would get to the point where I would finally get him to say car, and then I'd be like, Good job. Like, here, do you want to play with this car? Because he would he would go, ah, I'm like, you are not from Boston, son. Where is that coming from? But but it was one of those things because I noticed it was like other words that ended with R. He like, he had a hard fall-off with the word. And even like paper with paper. And I'm like, no, so it was just something we had to practice with, but he uh, if you just held it in your hand in front of him, boy, did he not like that. But I found that out about him, right? So like I had to find a different solution. So I totally understand what you mean because as a parent, you just want to be like, oh, this is what they want. You know this is what they want. So you want to give it to them because you want them to be happy or have their playtime or whatever. But you're not really helping them develop that language skill that they really do need. And what are a few simple ways, besides maybe holding it up in front of you or putting something up away, that parents can start using these techniques during everyday activities like meal, playtime, getting ready for bed, just simple, easy ways that they can incorporate.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah, absolutely. So definitely choices, right? So I think everybody's gone through the rabbit hole of what do you want to have for dinner? You want chicken nuggets? No. You want this and that? No. You want this and that? No. So you go down this rabbit hole of like all this yes-no questions, and then they're saying no to everything. You're like, I've named everything in our kitchen. Uh so you can ask this is what we're gonna have for dinner, you can have this or that. So you can have steak or chicken, whatever you want. Uh, offering choices is very good and helping with, you know, compliance, behavior, making a decision. And kids love to make decisions, right? They want to be in power, they want to understand that they are controlling you and you're not controlling them, but you know, we are gonna control the world. So we're gonna shape their their day. But also asking like absurd questions, right? Is really good for rapport. So, like I have a little girl who went to the farm on a on a field trip, and her mom's like, Do you want to talk to Miss Janine about the farm? And she goes, No. Went to the farm, you must have seen a giraffe. Did you see giraffe there? She says, No, cow. It's like, oh, a cow. What does a cow say? Does it say meow? She goes, No, it says moo. Okay. All right. Oh, you so you went to the zoo. No, so you went to the farm. You must have seen an elephant. No, you know, sheep. Or chicken, whatever it is. So she kept going and she was kept in um in uh engaging with me because I was asking these really dumb questions. That she's like, why don't you know the answer to this, right? And so asking absurd questions is really, really good. And then, like you said, when you read books and you sing songs, like be super animated, be super just like over the top, like musical theater. Like no one's gonna judge you at all, especially your kids, right? So having having really good intonation, different intonation changes, facial expression, gestures. Um, because when you make things fun, it's more memorable memorable, right? And also, like I really love clapping and tapping out syllables, especially for kids who might slur the words together, right? So I might say like a fent and like clap or tap it out, or I might clap or tap out a sentence on the child when we're when we're doing certain things, um, especially doing like working on social language when if they're in a social group, like playing with their friends. And then I might say, like, can I have a turn and tap it out on them? You know, so they can understand that, oh, there's a turn-taking aspect. There's also different syllables to this word, this phrase or sentence that I'm asking or saying. Um, and then that kind of helps them have a different kind of sensory, right? They're hearing it, they're feeling it, and then they can maybe see it if you're clapping, right? You can see what those words are. So those are easy, easy strategies. And one of the things I worked on with my son early on, too, is like sequencing, right? Because as an adult, I want to know what's happening during my day, right? So if I was just taking around all day and like not being told what's next or what's gonna happen later on in the day, I'd be a little anxious. I would be, you know, if I don't have my calendar on me, I'm like, I don't know what's going on. And then I feel like I don't know what's gonna happen, and I feel anxious. So working on things like sequencing, like, okay, we're gonna brush our teeth, we're gonna um change our clothes and put on our shoes, right? Yeah. And then, you know, working up to, okay, first we're gonna go to school, and then after school, we're gonna go to the park, and after the park, we're gonna go take a nap, whatever it is, right? So you can sequence what you guys are gonna be doing. And then the child is learning sequencing as well, and also expectations, because when they understand what's expected of them or expected in their day, you have a lot more regulation, right? They understand what's gonna happen. Um, they also are better equipped with if there's a change in the schedule, too, right? So if they know what's gonna happen, but you say, oh, you know what? The par it's raining today, so we can't go to the park. We're gonna go to the library instead. You know, they have they know what was supposed to happen, and they know that there's a change, and then they can what they call, you know, shift or transition to something else.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Perfect. So many parents rely on screens or quick answers when kids ask questions. How exactly is that impacting language growth, especially the screens? Because as we know, those are involved with everything these days.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yeah, absolutely, right. So my son's in middle school, and I feel like everything's on the Chromebook or something. They do everything on a screen or tablet or computer thing. Um, and AI is like all over the place. So, like, if we think about like little kids, right? When I was just an auntie and my had my nieces, and this was many, many years, many years ago, I'm like, I would never let my child watch. My brother had like a portable DVD player. I'm like, I'm not gonna let my child watch a DVD player or whatever. And then, you know, then I had my son, and by that time we had phones or or you know, tablets and things like that. And then I'm like, oh, well, sometimes I need that, right? Like you need a couple of minutes, 20 minutes or whatever to get food ready so you can watch something, or you're at a restaurant, you're like, okay, now they're having a tantrum, or they're just over there, they're done eating, they're over sitting there, and just to keep them entertained for a little bit of time, you know, that can be the entertainment to keep them uh, you know, having their behaviors in check. But as far as like having screens and TVs on all the time and using that as like the background noise and having the child just watching it all the time, I don't I'm not a proponent for that. I love watching shows with kids if possible. So if you're gonna be watching Miss Rachel or Peppa Pig or Bluey or whatever it is, I would really prefer, you know, the parents be able to watch it with the child so that way you are also engaged with the show. You're talking about the show, you're commenting about the show, you're asking questions, and then later on during the day when the when the show is not on, you can be like, oh, remember we saw this on that show, and you can talk about it and relate to it that way and generalize what you're what they're learning in the show. But as far as like a free-for-all screens, I don't really recommend that. There are some great educational shows and programs and games, um, but I'd like to have that incorporated with the parent or an adult helping them navigate that. But you know, as a child gets older, right? My son's doing video games, he's watching YouTube, he's like, you know, on his iPad or on my old phone. He's like, Your old phone can do all these things. I'm like, yes, it can. You know, so he's doing all this stuff, and he's being a typical teenager in a lot of ways. And part of me is like happy that he is being this typical teenager, but a lot of times we're like, that's too much screen because then he's zoned out, he's not really focused or present. He does learn a lot of things, or you know, so I'm not trying to take the screens away completely, but I think there should be a limitation, and then also you you still need to be aware of what they're watching, right? Yeah. Because their screens and YouTube and those YouTube shorts, I'm like, why is this irritating person on this video? And they're having you know hundreds and thousands of views, and I'm just like, this video is not the smartest thing. Why are you why are you watching? I always say, why are you watching the not educational? I call it the dumb videos. Why are you watching the dumb video again? Because it's really this Oh, I know, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yeah, I'm like, what is the point of this?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I know. I'm just like, no, I don't I don't really get it. I don't understand it, and I don't really yeah, I don't like it. So there's a there should be a limit because you know, go read a book, an actual book, right? Like we have Epic, which is a great digital library. It's amazing. And then we have Duolingo, which just added math, which is great because now he has these math games he can do. So there's ways to have fun educational things on screens, but you know, go to the park, go read a book, be actually doing things because you know, we have a lot of kids who are just not doing anything physical anymore, right? You have these kids who are just eating and watching screens and not going to play sports or not being, you know, motivated and stimulated by doing physical or mental tasks that are real world rather than you know learning from a digital AI or a digital screen watching dumb videos.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Oh, absolutely. Like I tell my son all the time, especially like when he's on breaks, because you know, they revert back to their newborns when they're home on breaks and they have to eat every two hours. And I'm like, you're not hungry, you're bored. Yeah. So like go ride your bike or take a walk and look at the sky. Think about things. He's like, what am I supposed to think about? I don't know. When I was a kid, we would lay in the grass and look at the clouds and try to make shapes out of them. I don't know. Think about things. Like use that brain, move your body. You're not hungry, you're bored, you know? And it's just one of those things where they always I didn't grow up having a cell phone in my hand at his age. Now they've had I I mean, I was at my nephew's elementary school the one day, and there was kindergartners with iPhones. And I was like, I'm sorry, what does a six-year-old need an iPhone for? You know, like I feel like to me, I'm like, that's a little early. I'm not judging because I don't know. Maybe her parents are split up and she's, you know, handling her own pickup situation. I don't know. But to me, I'm like, that's like, can she even type everything out? Like, that's one way to learn sight words, I guess. I you know, and it it's just so ridiculous because we do rely on technology so much, but it's like you said, like it the dumb videos. I can I always tell my son, I can see the brain cells flying out of your head and my head for us watching this. Like, I appreciate that you wanted to share this with me, but we neither one of us are better for watching this.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Absolutely. Right. I heard that I heard a post saying that this generation growing up right now is going to be the first generation that will be dumber than their parents. Like they will not be, they will not excel past their parents in intelligence as a whole. You know, there's some kids, outliers, who are very, very smart, but as a whole, they are relying on AI or Chat GPT or Google or something to answer questions, like simple math questions. You know, when you go to the store, your child should be able to understand like if I buy, you know, three toys at $3 each or whatever it is, it's gonna be $9. And then you have to add tax and all this stuff rather than like, oh, I don't know, just put it on a card. Or like, I have no idea how much it's gonna cost. Um, so like real world experiences is is definitely like something this generation is lacking. And I grew up when there wasn't even internet. You know, when I was in element elementary school, there wasn't internet. There wasn't like, you know, I was in high school and we had dial-up.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

You know, there was just ours came in on a CD and we had dial-up. Yeah. You know, it it's but they are, and you know, I know a lot of parents, they don't put their foot down because um it's a tool for them to use when you start talking about math problems using the Alexa or this and that. And you know, I I look at it like if you're verifying the work you've done, I'm I'm okay with that. Like, I'm okay with you verifying your work through it, but I want to see your work before I hear that Alexa chime in. You know, like we're not just gonna use Chat GPT, we're not just gonna use Alexa to answer your problems because it's like you said, like math is it's something that builds up upon itself. Like you have to take it step by step. And it's like I told my son, because he's he's dyslexic, so he struggles with English, and I'm like, you have to be able to grasp basic English because you're moving into a section now where you're going into old English and the and the look the exact same. So it's all about context to try to figure out what's going on. And if you don't know how to figure out context because you didn't learn basic English, you can't figure out how to read the Odyssey. You know, like it's just one of those things. And to each their own when it comes to that parenting, and I know it can be a great tool. Like I said, my son, he is dyslexic, so we we use certain tools that help him with reading and things like that. And for parents who do have child with developmental delays or maybe special needs, what are some of the ways that they can support communication at home and maybe use that supportive technology?

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, my son has an individualized education plan or an IEP in his school, right? So there are certain things because his processing is a little bit slower. He has a um, you know, he has this visual field def deficit. So he does not see midline to write in both eyes. He only has 50% peripheral, so a lot of scanning tasks are difficult for him. Typing, you know, typing on a on a keyboard is difficult because all the letters are all over the place, right? Um, and things like that. So he is able to use voice dictation in school and he uses it at home too when he's searching for something. Um and when he's writing papers, you know, he can use voice dictation, and then if he needs to handwrite it, he can copy it then from the digital to the paper if he needs to. Or, you know, we can later on down the line probably print that out, right? So put it into a Word document and print that out. So when you're looking at things like going into middle school and high school for my son at least, for special needs, he's able to lean upon technology to help, you know, close that gap of the processing. And that's going to be really helpful for him. Uh for younger kids who aren't able to communicate, there's something called um alternative augmentative communication systems, right? So they could be as simple as like pointing to pictures or exchanging a picture, an actual tangible picture for an item or activity. But you can move on to digital uh talking boards, right? So they can create sentences, they can make all these decisions, ask questions by using digital because sometimes you know people aren't able to talk, right? And then if they're not able to sign or people don't understand sign language, then they can use the digital because then they can either have the person that they're com communicating with see what is written or hear it. You know, they can have the the tablet or whatever device talk for them in a sense. So there's great ways to incorporate, you know, our technology into the life of a special needs person, right? And so I think that's we should never say never to digital, right? We should always find a way to meet the person where they're at. And some people are going to require more technology than others. And being having the awareness that it's available is helpful because some people just don't know that it's available. And it's great for, you know, when a child's, you know, some some kids I've heard stories, you know, there's this one kid who's like graduating from MIT or something who is nonverbal and they thought that he was not intelligent, but he just could not verbalize. But he could, you know, he was super smart, and and to hear stories like that, you're like, wow, it's like how many kids or people have we overlooked in the past because they weren't able to communicate like we do verbally.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

But they would have maybe maybe been able to communicate using different technology.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Absolutely. And what advice would you give parents who feel overwhelmed navigating early intervention services?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

I would say that uh, you know, you don't know what you don't know and no one is gonna judge you because you need help, right? People who work in the early intervention field, whether it be speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, infant stimulation, everything, right? We all entered into our professions because we want to help people. And so no therapist is going to be, well, you're not a good parent because your child's not talking, or you're not a good parent because your child's not doing this and that. It's like you're just not equipped with the information and strategies in order to help your child develop. So that's what we're here for. I don't have a magic wand, but I do have the expertise and the knowledge that I can help you learn, and then we can practice it together and then help your child develop. It's never, you know, never you should never be afraid to ask your doctor or somebody, a professional, uh, if your child, you know, if you suspect your child is delayed, right? You should always be open and uh able to ask a professional, a doctor or therapist, you know, can you take a look at my child? I I'm I'm a little worried, right? Because if you wait too long, that's when that gap increases and it takes longer for the child to catch up, right? And a lot of times parents, because they want to be good parents, or maybe their ego is, you know, difficult for them to get over, right? They're like, well, if my child is delayed, it's going to reflect on my parenting. It's going to reflect on me as a person. Where, you know, if you can put your ego aside and think about what the child needs, then you're going to be able to help them much sooner and earlier. And, you know, some parents, um, especially dads for some reason, they have the ego of, well, what can you do for my child that I can't?

unknown 40:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Well, you know, in a sense, I can do a lot for your child that you can't right now because you don't have the knowledge and experience. But I can help you help your child. And once they see the child's growth, then like the the defense comes down, right? They're not so defensive. They're not, they have that ego that's taken away because now they understand that, oh, you weren't trying to criticize me as a parent. You were trying to help my child.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Absolutely. And I know like my son from like four to eight, he was in occupational therapy, which at first, when you know, his head start teacher is the one that said, Hey, maybe talk to his doctor, you know, like, um, and I'm like, I didn't really think my son needed it. I was like, he plays t ball, he plays flag football, like this kid can throw a ball like no other, he can catch, like, and I'm like, huh. So then I took him into his pediatrician and he's like, Well, there's a really simple thing. And, you know, he was like, he drew a line and he was like, Okay, can you draw this line? Like, can you draw the line on top of it? And my son struggled. And so he was cutting in a straight line, and he asked my son, can you cut it in a straight line? And my son struggled, you know, and it's like, he's like, you know, he does have some fine motor delay. He he would benefit from occupational therapy. And here I'm like, what is fine motor? Like, and he's like, what you're thinking of is gross motor. Like he can catch, he can throw, he can bat. Like, that's your gross motor. He's like, the fine motor is writing, cutting, you know, coloring, things like that. And I was like, oh, so he was in occupational therapy, but like it's like you said, like at first I was like, oh, my kid's fine. Like, and if I wouldn't have, if I would have just shrugged his teacher off, my son wouldn't have got help. But I was like, okay, you know, let me just ask the pediatrician and what harm's it gonna do. He's just gonna tell me my kid's fine, right? And and he did not. He educated me on what the difference between fine and gross mothers were. And I was like, I didn't know there was a thing. Like, but then I did, and you know, we had like not homework, but like practice things that we could do at home, you know, and and now he's like, I mean, he's he's perfectly fine. He hates writing, but um it's just one of those things, it's like you said, it's you have to kind of get over I don't want to say being ashamed, but in a way, like I was kind of ashamed. Like one, I was ashamed that I almost blew off that teacher because she noticed something was wrong with my son, and I almost just was like pish posh. And then two, I was ashamed because I didn't notice something was wrong with my son. You know, like I wouldn't, I would have never gotten him the help. You know, that's a big blow to my ego. But then when I've like, I was like, okay, this is what he needs, and I'm a very like point A to point B person. So as soon as his doctor's like, this is what we need to do, I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. Full force boogie, this is what we've gotta do, you know? And then when I start seeing him like Color in the lines with a marker and stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh. I just thought he was bad at coloring, like me. I'm like, I failed kindergarten. So what do I know? And it's funny because his occupational therapist was like, you probably could have benefited from occupational therapy. I was like, who knows? But but it's it's so true. Because there is that like, you have to get over your own defensive, like you said, and just realize like this is what's best for my kid. And I think that's so important, but it can be a little hard to do. And I know you've said that you want to shake up the way we approach language development. What changes would you love to see and how we are supporting children and families?

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Absolutely. So I think, you know, just like when you go to a birthing class, you learn how to put a diaper on, you learn how to do a bottle and swaddle and all kinds of stuff. But you there's no education really after that, right? So I think of it like preventative speech therapy. So teaching parents early on, like the diff different strategies you can use with your babies, right? So they're exposed to how different vocabulary, different language, how to do how to how to speak to them, right? So you don't want to speak to them too fast. You want to slow your speech down just a little bit, have that enunciation, have that intonation, really great gestures, vocalizations, facial expressions, all that stuff, right? And so I think that that learning simple, simple strategies that you can incorporate when you're when your child is still a baby, that's gonna help you then develop a child who is a successful communicator and develop that language early on rather than you not knowing what to do and then waiting too long and then being questionable, like, oh, I'm not sure what's going on. I'm sure they'll be fine, they'll be fine. So-and-so said they were a late talker, my child's gonna be fine, and then your child needs speech therapy. So that's the way I want to shake things up because you know, I want to hit all the parents, all the early education centers, preschools, and things like that, because that's where foundation of the foundation of language is really set in stone, right? If you wait too long, then you're playing ketchup. And all these kids, you know, I have I've seen too many kids in early intervention speech therapy that are late talkers, but they seem to understand everything. And physically they seem very sound. They can run, they can jump, they can climb, they can do all kinds of things. So they're the only delay is really that expressive language, right? And oftentimes those are first-time parents and they've done everything for their kids because they're over-anticipating. They're not playing dumb. They're just like, you want this toy? Oh, here you can have it. Or you're gonna the child cries a little bit and they're like, what can I give them to pacify that? Right? Because you don't want your child to cry. No, that's uncomfortable. It's always uncomfortable. But learning that a child, you know, stretching their abilities, they're gonna whine and maybe cry a little bit. You don't want them to have a full don't full-blown meltdown, but you do want to stretch their abilities. And like one of my chapters is No Child's Ever Died of Crying, you know, as far as we know. And I've only had one parent gasp at that. They're like, oh, it's like, no, they're not gonna, they're not gonna do, we're not gonna push them to that level of, you know, dying. But we're gonna push them a little bit so they can stretch their abilities, right? So the child, if the child is able to say what single words, then I'm gonna expect them to say single words when we're doing our conversational exchanges or asking for things. If a child's not able to talk it out at all, but they're able to imitate a sign for more or please, I'm gonna expect that to be the consistent way that they communicate. But if a child can also say a sentence and they're not they're saying one word, I'm gonna expect them to say that sentence rather than just one word because I know what they can do and how far I can stretch them.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Absolutely. And if more parents learn these strategies earlier, what kind of impact do you think it could have on children's development to really give it like that boost to maybe uh it sounds like you're putting yourself out of a job here, but to so they don't need intervention services.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Yeah, I mean, for one people, I know multiple people have asked me, aren't you scared of you know, being out of a job? And I go, absolutely not. There are so many kids who need speech therapy, right? There are so many kids that the the the population that I'm trying to target are those kids who, you know, if these strategies were in place, they probably wouldn't need speech therapy. But there are also kids like my son and other kids who have d actual developmental needs who absolutely will need speech therapy. And so that's kind of making room for though that population to be addressed further because I mean it's really sad to say, but you know, I can be very selective on who I work with one-on-one because there are so many kids, right? And as a traveling speech therapist who does early intervention, I'm not gonna drive 45 minutes to go see a kid because that's gonna be too far for my schedule. So I can be really selective and choose kids around my area. But if I can, you know, multiply myself by, you know, writing the book, providing strategies, doing trainings, um, and doing online courses and things like that, I can then create this ripple effect to help other people. And hopefully, you know, I would love to be out of a job for for speech therapy, but it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. Um but you know, if we can educate people uh and and if I educate you and you educate somebody else, that creates this ripple effect and that butterfly effect, right? So if we can each uh teach our friends or family how to work with their kids, then it's gonna help everybody overall. It's gonna help kids learn to communicate earlier and more successfully, and then open up that window of opportunity to work with the kids who absolutely need speech therapy because there's always a sport a shortage of speech therapists based on how many kids need speech therapy, right? So there's I'm never gonna be without a job. And um that's you know, it's good because I need to make money, right? Like everybody has to have a job to make money, but um it's sad because there's so much more that uh can be done if we are educating better and earlier our parents and caregivers.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

And if there's one thing that listeners could take from today's conversation about supporting their child's communication development, what would you want it to be?

SPEAKER_00 51:18

I would say ask for help. Get educated, ask for help because you don't know, like I said, you don't know what you don't know. Like you didn't know anything about fine motor, right? You didn't know what you didn't know. And you know, if you can just get a little bit of knowledge, it'll go a long way.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Absolutely. And where can listeners find your book, Play Dumb and Sabotage? Excuse me, play dumb and sabotage and learn more about the resources and trainings you offer.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yeah, they can definitely go to my website. It's playdumbandsabotage.com. Um, the book is available in you know, in a paper format. Um, sorry, I still titled what was it called? An actual book, an ebook, an ebook and an audiobook. I'm like, you know, a book book. Um anywhere you can any online bookstore would have it as well, but Amazon's a great place. Um you can get it um via any kind of electronic book or any audiobook as well. But going to my website, there's links for all of those there.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Perfect. And we will put the link to playdumbandsabotage.com in the show notes. So if you guys just want to scroll down, you can click on that. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. We really appreciate it. Well, that's it for today, you beautiful caffeinated disasters. If any of this resonated with you, hit that follow button. And if you would, please leave us a review. It really helps other tired moms and dads find the show. And if you want to become a supporter of the show or just keep us caffeinated so we can keep bringing the chaos every Tuesday, head over to our Buzzsprout page at momsbrain is a coffee stain.buzzsprout.com. Even a couple bucks means the world and helps us keep the coffee and the show flowing. Now you can become a subscriber of the show and get access to new episodes two days early. And don't forget to check us out on social media. You can find us everywhere at mom's brain is a coffee stain. Feel free to slide into our DMs or email us your best no guilt hex at mom's brain is a coffee stain at outlook.com. And head over and check out Janine's website at playdumbandsabotage.com. And don't forget to grab your copy of her book. It's also on Amazon. She has direct links right there on her website. And we'll go ahead and put the links in the show notes. Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to pick up my grocery order. Love y'all. Mean it. Go sip on for us, and we'll see you next Tuesday.