Linda-Living in the Gray, Driving the Bus: Redefining Leadership in Real Estate and AEC

In this episode, Lauren sits down with Linda, General Manager of the Spring District, a massive 1.6 million square foot mixed-use development. Linda shares her inspiring "slow and steady" career trajectory, starting from answering phones at the front desk in 2008 to managing a multi-million square foot community asset.

The heart of this conversation dives deep into the realities women face in traditional corporate environments. Linda opens up about the friction of being told to "just settle into being a mom" instead of advancing her career, the structural barriers that impact single mothers, and how she is actively rewriting those rules today by leading her team with radical flexibility and holistic empathy. It’s a powerful masterclass in owning your value, marrying corporate responsibility with community purpose, and refusing to let others define your path.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Record. I'm going to start off, and obviously this part will be edited out by saying something along the lines of I give like a little intro about what the podcast is about. And and I guess I should share that with you. Is it's about inspiring women who've just started in the industry and are kind of like, wow, I'm the only girl at the table, and or women who are kind of 20 years in going, what's next? What do I do? And so what I was hoping to do is gather stories from other women in the industry so that they realize that it's not just like a one-way street. There's not just one path to success. And that looks different for everybody. I love that. Great. Okay. So Linda, thank you so much for joining today. I'm so excited. One, that I've had the honor of being in your presence. You have such just like this fun aura to be around. You're so light and wonderful. I appreciate that. Um, and then two, you have such a kind heart. So I met you through an organization that we were raising funds for. And I love that. I love that you are willing to share your time and resources with others. That's such a wonderful place to be as a human. And I wanted to get to know you. So I'm so, so grateful that you accepted this invite to be on this podcast. So thank you. I want to start with understanding what you do. So can you tell me what your day job is and what that means?

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah. First of all, thank you so much for having me and for reaching out. I'm honored to be here. And like you said, to have met you through Plymouth and our experiences as dancers, I guess you can call. We're now officially dancers. So thank you. Thank you for connecting. I would I feel like I am still defining what my daytime job is, and it is ever changing and evolving. But on paper, I would say I'm the general manager of the Spring District, a mixed-use development in the Bell Red neighborhood of Bellevue. And what that means is, you know, I handle the daily operations of about 1.6 million square feet of mixed-use office space and a 36-acre park in between all of that shared space. And it was really something that I'm continuing to define and create as I've been here for the last, I guess we're about almost at five and a half years now. And it it was a position I came into, you know, through Wright Run Stad. I I had started my career in real estate with Wright Runstad back in, gosh, I'm gonna tell you 2008, which really dates how long I've been in the industry. But I was, you know, front desk gal answering phones back then and made multiple changes throughout my career. And because of my relationship with Wright Runstad and some of the owners that had bought into some of the assets in the Spring District, I was asked to come back. And it wasn't a clearly defined role, which I personally was excited about. I'm somebody who likes to live in the gray area. And this role was perfect for me because of that reason. It was not a, I need you to do this exact job. It was let's we need to figure out what makes this community thrive and grow, and how do we bring life to what we've, you know, what we Wright Runstad had spent the last at the time 15 years building. So my day is all over the place. You know, I manage a team of where there's 10 of us on the team now, and that's a mixture between the admin support team and the on-site engineering team, and we're really handling third-party operations for the assets that we've sold off, as well as maintaining operations for the assets that we still own and creating a sense of community. So that looks different every day.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Thank you for that explanation. I still have so many more questions. Yeah. I'm still questioning what I do every day. So that's what you do for your day job. But I'd also like to give you the opportunity to talk about all the other wonderful things that you do.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah. So I because of my non-defined role here, it really gave me the opportunity to be out in the community a lot more. When the Spring District was coming online, you know, the Spring District had been this topic of discussion throughout the city of Bellevue and and Greater Region as the first transit-oriented development of its kind in Bellevue at least. And there was so much talk about it during its development cycles, and then it like, okay, it's here, now what? And so, in order to keep us relevant with what was going on in the community and keep the excitement about that, you know, it really took me being out in the community talking about it, showing up and supporting kind of greater initiatives throughout the city and region. That really spoke to me in a personal way. I had just, when I got here in December of 2020, I was in the middle of my year of serving as Mrs. Washington America, and that was kind of a launching point for me to be engaged in the community. Had represented on a local level, I was Mrs. Bellevue, and then when I won, I was Mrs. Washington. And so I'd already been engaged with a lot of nonprofits, and my heart was already very much pulled towards creating a sense of community, especially through the pandemic, which was my year of rain. So it parlayed very well into coming here and wanting to create a sense of community in a brand new community that didn't exist. So I got really involved. I got really involved in what the city was doing. I got really involved in what the local nonprofits that were supporting the city were doing. And I actually was in a two-year adaptive leadership course called Leadership Eastside. And that opened a lot of doors to who else was doing that type of work in this in this area and the East Side in particular, and got me connected to groups like Easter Partners that I serve on the board with and Rainier Athletes, which is a youth mentorship program for students in fifth through twelfth grades in the Bellevue School District. And so through these connections, I it gave me that sense of purpose that sometimes you miss in your day-to-day life or career, especially when there isn't a direct correlation to what you're doing every day, to that sense of giving back to the community. So I kind of became like the best of both worlds.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Wow, I really love that. One of the reasons I chose to go out on my own is so that I could pick where to spend my time in the community. And it's been such a fun adventure to say, like, okay, I don't have to figure out if this is personal or if it's business. It's just what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

I love that. And that's exactly right. I think so often we're confined by what the priorities are of our organization or not having time to do anything outside of, you know, what is expected of you to get a paycheck, that we kind of put those things off until like one day I'll do all those things that I wanted to do or get involved. But when you can find a way to marry the two, it's really special. So whether, you know, oftentimes that does mean going out on your own. And, you know, I applaud you for that because that takes a whole nother level of courage to do that. But I was lucky enough to find a way to marry the two and still be representing my company in a positive way in the region.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

That's wonderful. You talked a little bit about your like trajectory within the company, but can you talk about let's back up and talk about how did you decide what you wanted to be when you grew up and where did you where did you get that, you know, sense of direction from? Did you have a sense of direction? Kind of just talk me through like high school to now.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah, I think I'm still figuring out what I want to do when I grow up. So I, you know, I was one of those kids who was always jealous of the other kids going off to college that were like, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna go to law school, or I'm gonna go to, you know, I'm gonna be a doctor, because they were very clear in what they wanted to do. I was not one of those people. And through that, ended up at UW getting a generic communications degree because that seemed like the most broadly relevant degree across the spectrum. And, you know, I think at that time this the school of real estate for sure was did did not exist at UW. And real estate in general was not like a wildly talked about or kind of accepted path, right? It was something you fell into, which is how I did later later on. And when I got out of school, I ended up w doing I worked in the TV ad sales world, which sounds really exciting, but it's not. It's very monotonous. And basically I was putting infomercials on the air. So you can imagine how exciting that is every day. Like, how did the juicer do today? And what TV stations do I need to put them on for tomorrow? And it just it wasn't really filling my bucket. And so a couple years of you know, into that career, and I had both worked both on the television rep side and then on the client side, buying airtime, that world took me down to Tucson, Arizona, working at a TV station down there. And I really, quite frankly, had wanted to be in broadcasting. And with at the time that I was at UW, there was not a broadcast program. The big one was at WSU, and I wasn't, you know, it didn't work for where I was in my life to move across the state and do that. So going to Tucson was really in an effort to try to pursue a broadcasting degree and a much smaller market. And in the middle of that, got divorced and I I'd gotten married very young and had my first child very young and ended up getting divorced. So I had to move back to Washington and find a career that was or job at the time that was sustainable and supportive to being a single mom. And a friend from college worked at Wright Runstead and said, Hey, we need like a front desk person at this building in Bellevue if you're interested. And at the time it was like, I'll take whatever. And it was 2008. So again, not a great time in real estate, but the property management side has always been very stable. And the trajectory of a of your career when you're on the property management side is a little different than let's say asset management or brokerage or some of those more sexy, kind of spotlighted career paths. But it's one of those like slow and steady wins the race kind of careers. And so I kind of entered that as the at the bottom level and spent, you know, the next several years like working through the system and getting remarried and having a second child and redefining what my career was after going, you know, through m motherhood round two and finding the right company that supported all of those aspects of who I was. And so when the call to come back to Right Runstead came, I I knew that's where I was meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Wow, you hit on so many points. I wanna, if you don't mind, talk about how the system can better support women and specifically single mothers. It's I feel like single mothers are called to redefine who they are as well as their career at the same time. So I can't imagine balancing those two various things at the same time. Can you talk a little bit? It seems like your company has supported you and given you opportunity. Can you talk about like what did they do that was great? What do you think maybe could be improved just like throughout the industry? Whatever thoughts you have on on that.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yeah, I think I'll start with where I struggled. And and I was fortunate enough to have local family in the area. So my whole experience would have been drastically different if you removed that equation. Because one of the other hard parts about, especially pre-COVID, the property management world was you were expected to be there eight to five. And as anybody who has kids knows, school doesn't school hours don't support you being exactly there eight to five, especially when you're a single parent and paying for those extra wraparound services are is not an option or a stretch. So I I had parents who could help with that, but I remember having these conversations early on that was like, can I shift my hours? Can I get here at nine so that I don't have to, so I can do the school drop-off and you know, not have to pay out of pocket more expenses for somebody to watch my son in the morning. And it was very, you know, bad this was years ago, but it was like, nope, the expectation is eight to five. And you know, I think in a lot of ways, COVID helped with that, but in some ways, like our industry is still very kind of behind the times and a little old school in in how we do things, which is why there's not as many women in it, right? It's not supportive of really taking care of the person, the employee, where they are in their life cycle, right? Because it's gonna change. And I I remember being very frustrated multiple times in my career that the answer was like, no, you need to mold to this instead of, you know, like what does that one hour difference make? Really not much. And then the second time I really remember being hit with this feeling of like this isn't fair, quote unquote, was after having my second son and having my whatever 12-week maternity leave that I had, and coming back, and at this point I was with a different firm, and it was well, you know, when I left for maternity leave, I was kind of on the cusp of being ready to be promoted to the next level. And when I came back, the conversation was, well, why don't you just settle into being a mom? Like, don't worry about advancing your career, just take the time to to be a new mom again. And I was actually kind of pissed off because I was like, that's actually not your decision to make for me. If I'm ready to advance, I was ready to go before I had my son. And you know, for for anybody who has kids, there is this pressure of like you lose your kind of status, right? When you when you leave. And it was even more the way that the conversation was had with me was like, just just be a mom. And it was like, well, I can be both, like you don't get to define what that is for me. And I ended up leaving, like, not you know, I think six to nine months later, because I was ready for that next level. And they had kind of they had told me where what I was ready for instead of letting me drive that bus. And that was really frustrating. And I think a lot of women feel that in the industry. So that's those are the the really key pieces where being a mom felt like a hindrance to my career trajectory. And I would see the women who either had older kids or d hadn't had kids yet were excelling at this different kind of rate. Or, you know, I my current husband, who's my second husband, is in the industry as well. And seeing that he didn't come up across any of these barriers, even though he was a new dad, none of those conversations were being had with him, right? And it was so frustrating because I felt like I was working twice as hard to prove my status or position or what my what I was capable of. And yet I was still being questioned about, well, are you sure you really want to do that? And and in the one sense you you are appreciative of some sort of grace about being a mom, but on the other hand, it's this like wall that you hit and you have to keep, you know, jamming your head against to prove that yes, you're ready to be both. So those are those are really moments of when I really struggled. And then on the flip side of that, I think, you know, where I am now, again, I had to work really hard to get here, and I've been in the industry for a very long time. My children are much older now, but I try to use that, those feelings and reminders about my experience with the team that I have now. And so everybody kind of has their own hours of when they come in that work for them and their stage of life and their families. And I've had support from that, and I've been supported in in, you know, hey, my kid's sick, I'm gonna work from home. Or I, you know, my son comes in to work with me a lot, and the tea on days, you know, those random school days that they have off that don't align with anybody else's days off, and he'll just come in. The team, my team is, you know, super welcoming and they love him, and we put him to work. And so it's I've tried to create an environment where that's the norm and not, you know, keep the two separate. So kind of the same theme of of the, you know, your your interests and pursuits outside of work. How do you marry that so that when you show up at work, you're showing up as holistically who you are and not having to take on and off the different hats every time you enter a different room?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yes, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Because it's exhausting, right? Oh, I can't be mom in this room, but I have to show up as mom in that room. And oh, I gotta go to parent-teacher conference, and they don't understand that I work away from a home.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

And yes, yes. I'm sure that there's a study. I should go find one. I bet there's a study about the like the tax of having to change hats all the time. Like how much productivity are you actually losing? And how exhausting is that for the person? Yeah. Because yeah, that's a whole thing, right? Yeah, it is. It's a whole thing. You hit on so many good points. And I've had several conversations with with various other women too, and not just moms, but like this need for flexibility, this need for like um an integrated life, and this concern for corporate making life-changing decisions for women, saying you're ready, you're not ready, you should focus on doing this, you should focus on doing that, and it really has nothing to do with work productivity or outcomes. It just has to do with their thoughts and feelings about your personal life.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah, 100%. And again, nobody should get to define that but us. Yeah. And I remember there used to be like this whole phrase of work life balance, and like that doesn't exist, number one. And I think now the the more common use term is alignment, right? Like, how how can they align so that you can pursue and show up in different aspects of your life without having that be a ding towards a different area. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah. And I will say I did get the opportunity to create a flexible schedule as a mom who had expressed, you know, wanting to be able to go to pick up and, you know, all the the various tasks, right? And I will admit that it was a very hard challenge to come up with the schedule because one of the requirements was that it had to be the same from from week to week. Right. And I can't predict when they're going to get sick or you know get injured at the playground or all the various things, right? So it was like yes, met with flexibility, but it still wasn't the right thing. And so I'm I'm hoping that as we kind of all gather our stories together and share them, that we're able to give some feedback that says yes, this works. We like this, but maybe we still need some improvement in these areas. So it seems like you're providing your team with flexibility and that seems to be working perfectly for your team.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I think when you allow people to have a life outside of work, number one, and create a standard for what the expectation is for them, whether it's their the hours that they work or you know more clearly defined rules about what they are what their output is or whatever you're creating a space where the person feels less stressed, more accepted, and when they are there, they're going to work hard to put the their best work forward, right? Because they're happier and we know that happier people do better work. When you try to constrict what those are and I'm not saying like you know there there are some standards of what industry hours are that work for a client facing role like a property manager, right? Like I certainly would have some questions if somebody wanted to work nights and I'm like nobody comes here at night. Like so there's boundaries. But you know we have we even have on our team one of our engineers is a single dad and so he and his daughter's older but he comes in super early so that he's off at two and can take her to softball or go to her softball games or whatever. So it's not just that we're being flexible to the working moms on our team but working dads as well. And you know a lot of these teams these folks are live 45 minutes plus away from the properties that we're managing. And so kind of work it's basically working with each individual and holistically putting out the plan of like here's our whole team here's where everybody has kind of requested their their you know hours be and in fact what it does is give us a greater broader spectrum of visibility on site you know so for us it works really well because now we have somebody basically 12 hours a day. There's somebody here at six and the last person leaves at six. So we went from eight to five to now six to six and we've made everybody a lot happier because we didn't confine them to hours that didn't work to meet their personal lives. So I think in the end when you look back and say what is what is holding what is what kind of hindrance would it be to allow some flexibility? Like what is it actually bothering to the team or how does it is it putting the team out of alignment to have flexibility and what might actually work really well with this I think you can get to a better understanding of how allowing some flexibility is better overall for the team. And sometimes people managers just don't want to do that kind of mapping and get kind of stuck in this kind of old school mentality of like this is these this is the hours that we've always had or this is the expectations that we've always had and and that I think because people are innately resistant to change that the cycle continues right and that's kind of how working moms have ended up still in 2026 having conversations about being working moms because there's this resistance to change and until that is accepted from the top down broadly I think we're going to still be hitting a ceiling in a lot of areas beautifully put and you know things that pop out to me are like but it's our policy or you know well if we did that for you we'd have to do that for everyone those yeah those types of comments where it's like well wouldn't that be a fun experiment yeah and that's why I'm saying like when you actually map it out it's actually probably better.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah and a quick plug I've got a map for teams there you go you know so contact Lauren and give me a call I'll help you figure it out okay my last question is what would you tell your younger self?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Oh so much I think we all look back at our younger selves and uh want to hug them and just say I see you I think as young women we often crave being seen and not in a weird way but just being accepted for who we are and there's not a lot of times in my life I could say where that was said at an early age right like I believe in you I see you and how can I help you thrive and I it took a long time for me to say that to myself so I think I I would tell myself I see you I believe in you and you're gonna you're gonna thrive because the more that is said whether it's an internal conversation or an external conversation the more we believe what we're hearing and early on you know the repetitive nature of hearing positive self-talk and positive external talk and people really saying I I have your back that can change the trajectory of someone's life right just knowing that they are seen and and not just a number and to be honest that's really what drew me back to a company like Wright Runstead is I felt seen. I didn't feel like I was a number and that literally the last five and a half years have changed the trajectory of my career because I felt seen and accepted for who I was and allowed the freedom to explore that a little bit more and what what does it mean to be in a leadership role and getting involved in crew and you know it was literally like one of the first things I wanted to do when I came here I'd heard of this organization. I'd never really been involved in crew um which is the Commercial Real Estate Women's Network and I got involved and now I'm president elect like who would have thought that right so investing in myself you know being supported to invest in myself being encouraged to invest in myself really was a game changer and I think that's why mentorship is so important to me and what I want to do for others is to say I see you a much earlier stage in their career. So they don't spend 20 years wondering if all the hard work that they're putting in if anybody gives a shit about it, right? Because I think I felt that way for years. I just felt like why I'm just grinding and grinding and grinding and I'm not I don't feel seen at all. And I had, you know, some very unsupportive female bosses in that mix which is unfortunate but often happens where there was this level of competition and instead of being a mentor it became this tug of war of like who was getting you know acknowledged for what which is unhealthy and psychotic in a lot of ways but I think just the other piece of it is is learning how to self-advocate which as women we aren't taught very well and especially I think women in commercial real estate like how how do you make people aware of what you're doing and what your interests are in a way that is you know accepted by others and not seen as bragging or attention seeking but how do you really just advocate and say hey I'm busting my butt over here and here's all of the things that I've been able to accomplish that back my request to have some flexibility to get promoted to you know take on higher level projects that's you know something that I think I know I struggled with having the competence to have those conversations and so definitely want women to feel confident earlier in their careers so that they don't feel burnt out by the time they finally get the opportunity to grow yeah I love that and do you have any tools or I don't even know advice that you would share about how to advocate for yourself in a productive manner that can help to get that flexibility you know I will say using things like LinkedIn was a really great teaching mechanism for how to tell the story of what of things I was working on big things things that I wanted people to see or knowing who was watch what eyeballs were watching me and I never really you know learned about how to self-market or you know that was not my background I have a communications degree but it's not focused on marketing and the power that came with that when when P I'd go to meetings and people are like oh my God Linda you're doing da-da da da I'm like oh people are reading this like okay this is great and then knowing that my superiors and their superiors were seeing what I was doing it gave me greater confidence after having written it you know on an online forum to then talk about it and and have those conversations one-on-one and then really kind of changing the intention of my meetings with my manager right what when I'm meeting with him in our one-on-ones I'm making sure that I'm you know giving him little nuggets of like here's what we're working on and both me individually and me as the leader of our team what are we holistically looking at so that I'm also advocating for our team when I need to right and and that has come in handy when I've needed to say you know I need to add another body and it was no surprise to my boss at all when I requested that because he'd heard me listing all the things that we've been doing with the tiny team that we had and it and so when that conversation came he's like yeah you've been talking about this for months that you know you've been doing all these things short staffed so I I would say working on how you define your voice and what you're doing will really help elevate those conversations. So whether it's using your your you know your LinkedIn to practice that I would say being part of crew helped with that right like I had we were giving elevator pitches of who I was different lunges as I'm meeting new people then getting involved in different committees and having to learn you know how to advocate for an organization I was representing taught me the skills of like well I can transfer that skill into how do I how do I tell the story of who Linda Hoffner is it's the say it's the same skill you're just turning it inward which can feel very awkward at first until you realize that a lot of people are doing it right I mean just go on LinkedIn everybody's telling their own story right so when you get comfortable with that and I think also getting comfortable and sitting in who you are as an individual that's the first step like are you comfortable with who you are and when you are you can tell the story of who you are a lot easier and and finding those people in your network you don't need to have a huge network right you just need a few people who really see and believe in you to give you that confidence to start sharing your story. And I think for me the more I was open and vulnerable and transparent the more people wanted to hear from me. And so I've now seen that you know my oldest son is graduating college in a few weeks and he he is like the king of LinkedIn and I'm like at 21 I didn't know how to use I didn't know how to self-market and yet here he is you know blossoming in that area and you know many of his his counter his you know the students in his cohort are have learned that skill that we didn't necessarily learn. So I think that's a great way to kind of dip your toes into to advocating for yourself is to and start that storytelling process I was not expecting that but really I love that but I love that answer.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Yeah yeah yes why why do women have such a hard time tooting our own horn?

SPEAKER_01 37:54

It's just like an innate thing that we we struggle with right how many times have you thought about like I'm gonna do this nope I don't want to go there I don't want to say that I don't want to post that and then but it really it I mean I would say it blew the again it blew the doors off my career when I was able to tell the story of what I was doing and doing it in a written form seemed a lot less scary than a verbal form and in until I got comfortable enough to start me to having those conversations. And it's a great visibility tool we just a lot of times we don't know how to use it.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Great advice. Now I know I said that was my last question but if you'd like to give any other thoughts or opinions for our young women coming up in in the world now's your chance yeah I I would say something I tell my children all the time is you get out what you put in.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

And so there's a tendency with some of the younger generations to feel like they should just be given these opportunities or people are kind of expecting advancement at a very accelerated rate that isn't necessarily realistic to what you're doing. So I always say get involved know the scope of your own job and the job above you and when you start to already be emulating that job above you you're much more likely to be considered for that role when you've already kind of proven that you've done the job and I I also say this you know I even though I was Mrs. Washington several years ago like I still mentor and I'm involved in every year since then and when I when I mentor incoming contestants about the interview process which is always their biggest concern because it accounts for 50% of your score I tell them if you aren't all already doing the job of Mrs. Washington you will not be considered for that job. Like it is a job and you should show up as if you've already in in a respectful and humble way that you're already doing the work of that person. So by putting in that work ahead of time you will it will pay dividends on what you receive back. And that goes for either a job or you know relationships with people. I mean commercial real estate industry in general is by nature a relationship industry, right? So when you put in to those relationships when it's not just a transactional kind of relationship with somebody but you're really investing in like who are these people that I'm working with every day and especially your the teams that you work with you really do need to invest in the people that you work with so that so that you're creating a place of vulnerability and safety but what you what you put in you'll get back.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Well thank you for your very wise words today always lovely to chat with you.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

You too and I'm so excited for your this project and to continue to watch you as you excel and shine and and you know create your perfect job right I think we're all still even at this stage in our careers and lives like still figuring out what that little girl inside of us wants to be when we grow up. And at the end of the day I think it's less about a title and more about what do I want people to remember me by. And that's really how I've shifted like my life now it's not so much what position do I want to hold but what are people going to say about me at my retirement party? You know that's that's what I care more about.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yes that's a very interesting perspective. I recently went to a retreat and they threw a future cocktail party for your future self. So we had to come as who we think we would be in 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah it's it's a fascinating thing to to step back and do that and I've I've done something similar and it and it is it's you we really need to be thinking about who do who is it that we want to be because we can't work towards something if we don't know what we're working towards.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah absolutely time's gonna pass anyways right it is yeah well great well thank you so much I really appreciate your time. Of course