STAT Leadership episode 5: You Are Your Network

The Power of Network Building and Leadership Essentials

In this episode of STAT Leadership, hosts Phil Moy, Chet Kharod, and JR Pickett delve into the crucial role of networking and relationship-building in leadership. They discuss the importance of having a supportive network for achieving goals, making critical decisions, and fostering professional growth. The conversation includes personal anecdotes and experiences that highlight the incremental and organic process of building a network. Additionally, the hosts share practical strategies for effective networking, the value of deliberate effort, and the importance of maintaining genuine, non-transactional relationships. Towards the end, they introduce a 'Leaders Read' segment, recommending essential reads like 'A Message to Garcia,' 'Atomic Habits,' and 'Hero on a Mission' to enhance leadership skills and personal development.

00:00 Introduction to STAT Leadership
00:22 Meet the Hosts
00:42 The Importance of Networking
02:01 Building and Expanding Your Network
03:52 Personal Networking Experiences
06:54 Deliberate Networking Strategies
07:39 Mentorship and Relationship Building
09:06 Practical Networking Tips
15:41 The Power of Introverts in Networking
17:54 Networking as a Learnable Skill
19:27 Networking Procedure for Newcomers
26:15 Endurance in Networking
28:15 The Importance of Taking Breaks
29:33 Building and Maintaining Relationships
32:32 The Art of Networking
33:47 Effective Follow-Up Strategies
36:41 The Power of Remembering Names
41:36 Leaders Read: Recommended Books
54:20 Leadership Lessons from Superheroes

Referenced in this episode:
Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking, by Susan Cain  https://a.co/d/g9dB7OP

A message to Garcia, by Elbert Hubbard  https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.803/pdf/hubbard1899.pdf

Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones, by James Clear  https://a.co/d/iEYgg4Y

Hero on a Mission: A Path to a Meaningful Life, by Donald Miller   https://a.co/d/9TkbPWr

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

When the call comes in, leadership is everything. We analyze the data in real time, making the tough decisions under pressure. Welcome to Stat Leadership.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

I'm on mountain time, so it automatically adjusts. So I knew it was 8 o'clock. I was ready to.

SPEAKER_04 0:12

That's the perfect time zone for JR because he does what he wants. And uh mountain time is off and wait, what? Mountain time? And yeah, I'm right here, man.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

All right, we'll bring it in. Hello, listeners. Welcome to another episode 5. You are your network. I'm Phil Moy from St. Louis.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Hey, I'm Chet Carod from New Braun Falls, Texas.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Hey, I'm J.R. Pickett from Salt Lake City, Utah. All right. And why don't you bring us in on bring us in on what this episode is about?

SPEAKER_04 0:44

So everyone who has ever been in a position to lead, and virtually everyone else, understands, at least at some level, that having a team, a group of people you can call your posse, your family, whatever, is a source of strength. And it can also be something that not only lifts you up, but that you can reach out to when you have things you need to get done, when you need advice about something, when you're trying to launch an idea or a project. So this idea of a network, a lot of people think that it's like you're trying to get an angle, you're trying to build a network. Oh, I have to go to one of those networking parties. But this is different. This is like-minded people pulling together to make something good happen. And leaders need to know not only what this is, but how to do it. And hopefully today we'll get to talk a little bit about the power of your network.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

You have to have a network. Without a network of people, you're not working with anyone. And you're not working with anyone, you're not leading anyone, you're not accomplishing anything. Um, and so today we're going to talk about developing some of those relationships and how that impacts our leadership.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Yeah, and I was just thinking of myself as a young brand new spanking EMS physician, right out of fellowship, going to N A E M S P, ACEP conference, all these conferences. I'm like, I don't know anybody here. Everybody's so accomplished. I'm this wee little sprite here. And I remember I met a couple people that first year. We kept in touch by email, then we meet each other again the second year, and you develop your close-knit group of friends. And that kind of grows because I remember I was I started doing the PEC Prehouse Emergency Care podcast. And I remember that first year I had met Scott Goldberg at our like ace ACEP teaching fellowship, and we just kept in touch because we were at went to different residencies, different fellowships, but we met each other across the tril the EMS conference realm, like gathering the Eagles and everything. And so we were friends. I was like, Hey Scott, you want to do a pipe with me? He said, Sure, why not? And then I think the next year, randomly out of the blue, Jerry S. Cajeta came up to me and said, Hey Phil, I listen to your podcast, really like it. And if you need help, let me know. I'm like, I need plenty of help. Met him. And then I went to another conference. It was, it was, it had to do with more social media, but I met Joelle D'Anafrio there, who's now Joel D'Anafrio Odman. And I was like, man, this girl's got a lot of energy. She'd be great in a podcast. And it just kind of linked, and we became really close friends or family, and we grew together. And that network where with Scott, Jair, Joelle, and I just kept on growing and growing. Like the next year, people like, oh yeah, hey, how are you? And it's so your network, you don't anticipate going balls to the wall. You have a huge network to start off with. It starts small, right? And it takes a little bit of time to develop, but you meet people and it just goes from there.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

Phil, that's a great point. They it it captures this idea that sometimes it's because of a shared goal, right? Or a project we're working on or something that we're trying to execute together, and that draws people together. And that also is a place where it's not, we don't have to like direct energy at each other. We're putting our energy into a project. So it softens it a little bit so that we can all lean in on something cool instead of leaning in into each other's face. So that is a great way of starting that. And actually, this was something that I used to think about. I was a medical student and got a chance to go to some meetings, and I was just overwhelmed. I was an intern, didn't have time to do anything, so felt like I missed out. And then it wasn't until I was a flight surgeon and I was watching my commander work this room, right? We walk in, and we're at it's at some pilots meeting, but he's like, Doc, come with me. So I was like, okay. So it's all these higher-ranking people, but he walks in his uniform and he's all cool and easy. Hey, how's it going, Jim? Hey, what's up, hooker? They're all calling each other by the call signs, whatever. And it wasn't until later that I realized that he had come up with this crowd. So these were all his peeps. So it wasn't like he knew all these giants. These were all dudes he had worked with. And then I also realized that no matter where he was, he always had somebody he knew. And I started thinking this wasn't something that happens by chance. So when I had the chance, I started trying to develop this, but I didn't really nail it until I had to teach it to somebody else. When I was a fellowship program director, it was one of the requirements. Like one of the talks I used to give him was how to get the most out of a conference. And then they all had a requirement to present a poster at least one meeting, and we usually tried to do it at NAMSP. So then we played this game, you know, how many you have to meet at least five new people at this meeting. And the fellows routinely were like, I met 31 other fellows. I'm like, nice. Okay. Next time I want you to meet some big dogs also. Go up and introduce somebody, yourself to somebody at the welcome reception or something. And then I flipped it. So now when I come, like you guys are on my list. In December, I start making my list of people I want to catch up with and specifically go out of my way to see at NAMSP in January. Over the last decade, that list has gone from a dozen people to this year, it was 75 people. And I still leave five blanks for new people because one, I love new ideas, but two, there might be somebody just like I was. I don't know anybody here. What am I doing here? So I go out of my way to find the people who have that first-time attendee or new member tag and go see what they're up to. So we at the at least have a chance to take that process and teach people that.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah, I think you um you've touched on it there. It has to be deliberate. So the networks they don't just happen. You have to make an effort to build those networks to meet people. And it's not you don't want it to be transactional, you don't want it to be this, so I'm gonna get to know this person because of what they can do for me. That that's really disingenuous, and people see through that. It taints the relationship. And I think that people react very negatively when they get that opinion of you that uh this person is just meeting me because they can think I can do something for them. But it does have but it does have to be a deliberate effort to get into those circles, like you say, going to the conferences and the social events and uh talking with folks. I think too, one of those pieces here as I'm mid-career is being a mentor. The uh the fellows and the folks who are newer at whatever field it is that you're in, that that you're working in, is introducing them to those big dogs, those people that you know, and helping them to start to build out that network so they become a familiar face. And yeah, like I I think as you say, you meet all of these the folks at a conference for the first time that you're there for less than a week, and it's I think of the movie Fight Club when he's talking about single serving friends. And so it feels like that the first year, but then the second year you see that familiar face again, and then the third year, and then the fourth year, it's cool. What are we doing for dinner tonight? Let's uh let's go out like a whole group of us, and it becomes more of a thing. There's certainly people who are fantastic at maintaining the relationships in between those in-person meetings. I I will freely admit that I'm not one of those guys. I'm not that I don't, and I probably should be like the follow-up email, the follow-up check-in, the the ping on Facebook, but these making that okay, I'm checking off this list, I'm making sure I'm maintaining this relationship, etc. Some people that are really like deliberate about that, I'm not, but I think that there is certainly that will help to accelerate that comfort and um the and that collaboration that can then subsequently occur.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Yeah, no, I agree. I and I and Chet and JR love the deliberate networking. I unfortunately was more was less deliberate and was all like, oh, you gotta make some friends. I'm like this little shrimp in front of these huge giants. And it didn't help that one of my mentors in fellowship was Brent Myers, who when you follow him around at a conference, everybody knows who he is. And I'm just like standing there in the shadow, being like, who the heck are how does he know everybody? And during the conference, he would meet people, talk academia, all this smart stuff, and then after the fact, he'd be social. And I was like, this guy doesn't sleep, I can't do this. And the important lesson from that is you don't have to be exactly the extrovert, you know, everybody out there. I know that Myers Briggs isn't the ideal personality test and everything, but I'm an introvert out there, so I'm more of like an introvert extrovert. But I'm not as extroverted as the Brett Myers or anybody like that. So it took me a while to find my own cadence, to find my own people. But as JR JR said, Jair, Joelle, Scott, now that community has expanded for me, but it started with a couple of us, and we said, hey, let's go out to dinner once a time once during this conference, and it just developed into these long-lasting close friendships that we lean on each other now for other things. For example, Lekshmi Kumar, who's always been a very close friend part of the podcast as well. I had no idea she was she's going for professor or she's going for promotions in academia. And hey, we have all these good friends in NAMSP. Joelle Danafrey Odman's an associate professor or something like that. Scott Goldberg needs promotions, and you need letters from other institutions to get promoted. And so we're like, hey, lecture me, we're having dinner, let's have a drink. And hey, could you write me a letter? Sure, no problem, whatever. It's much easier to do that after you get this, but it did take me time, and JR and I think Chet will agree that it takes time to build a network. And it's okay if during that first conference you're like, I don't know anybody, I didn't make do a good job making networks. You probably did make an effort. People will recognize your face if you continue to go year after year.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

Yeah, and it helps if it's an organic process, just like J.R. was saying. If you go out of your way and you're you come up across like you're schmoozing a bit, that that feels unnatural to everybody on each side of that, but it does emphasize everything we're saying, emphasizes this idea of relationships, right? It's like the unrecognized superpower. And sometimes it's a relationship over just being like-minded. We all share an interest in EMS. But as leaders, our persona or our leadership ability extends beyond our professional sphere into our lives as well. And once you develop this ability, or at least an interest in expanding the network or just building relationships, then it spills over outside the professional part of the Venn diagram into the rest of our life. And that's pretty powerful too. It ends up being bigger than work. And I think the reason that's important is humans are not meant to live in isolation. I think since the beginning of time, they were tribal societies, 40 to 50 people moving around in groups. That's how they survived. So we may have a network within a network of friend of mine, Bob Mabry, years ago. I was like, Yeah, Bob, I don't know the people you do. And he looked at me with this funny look and he goes, Me. I was like, Yes. And he goes, and therefore you have access to my whole network, and I have access to yours. And I was like, ah, brilliant. That's really good. This idea that we are our network, and then by knowing somebody and by connecting with them, all of a sudden we have extended our sphere of influence and have great gained a greater access as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I'm glad you brought up Brent Myers and Bob Mabry because coming up in this career, but I can say this about both of them is how they made me feel is they did not make me feel like a nobody. And Brent is extremely warm and very welcoming and kind. And when talking to him, he just he made me feel good to talk with him. I like, oh, I'm glad that I know him. He didn't give me the feeling of like, why are you talking to me? Uh kind of a thing. And I think that that's so important for us as leaders as we build that career to treat others that same way. You're, hey, a medical student that has some interest in this field, be warm and welcoming and tell them, oh, hey, I'm so glad that you're interested in this. What interests you about it? Ask them a question and so forth. And likewise, Bob Mabry. He uh also like never made me feel like I didn't belong there. And which as I was coming up in this career was was really motivating for me. That uh what I take from that now, as I'm a leader, is I remember how they made me feel. And I'm like, okay, I want to make sure I make other people feel that way, that I'm around. And so this comes to that building the network, building the relationship is how do you make people feel when you meet them? And so as introverts, and I'm quite introvert, extrovert. I'm not like I'm I'm an extrovert that hates people a lot of the time, but but in certain environments I'm very comfortable and I'm I'm in a very outgoing because I'm comfortable in that environment. But I know when I'm walking into that new setting, what's that impression that I want to leave? Okay, I want to leave that impression of warmth. I want to have folks say, Oh, you know what, I wouldn't mind talking to him again. And as a leader doing the same thing, having that uh that warmth to where the people that you're supposed to lead, because you never get like automatic credibility, you get a certain amount for your background from the people that you lead. But it's not completely, you don't get devotion. You don't get folks that are drawn to follow you, drawn to you until you prove to them that you are there for them and stuff that we've talked about on these other podcasts. But when we open that up, I don't want to come off as standoffish or anything like that. I have heard advice from mentors who've said you have to maintain this distance and people that create a facade of I am the leader and I am here. And I really think that that impairs your ability to build those, especially the informal networks, the informal leadership networks and communication networks that you have to as a leader. I think that I think it gets gets in your way.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Yeah, and I want to put a plug out there for something you said, JR, about you're an introvert and extrovert waits people. Introvert doesn't mean you like being around people. You do being around people. It just you don't get you don't get energized by the continuous stream of interactions with people. So sometimes you have to just be a little quiet by yourself and go to your room, which is what I do sometimes at a conference, which is why I make sure I have a hotel room at the conference. I'm like, all right, I need a little break. I'm just going to my room for 15 minutes, just sit by myself and quiet. Then I'm going back down and I'm fine. But there's a great book out there, listeners, called Quiet by Susan Kane. It's about the power of introverts, which is phenomenal. And basically, it's like in this world where we have social media and extroverts can take over a room. Just because you're not loud or the center of attention does not mean you're make you're not making an impact. And I think a great kind of metaphor that I could pull is we're all on here phantom movie, Gladiator, that one scene where Emperor Commodus is like, Gladiator, tell me who you are, right? Maximus slowly turns around and says very quietly, yet with intensity. He doesn't scream, he goes, My name is Maximus Decimus Merdius, blah, blah, blah. That whole spiel there and everything. But it's very quiet, and it's just one line, and he just walks away, doesn't say anything else. And I have another mentor, Jane Bryce, who is like that. She is not voluminous, she's not loquacious, she's very direct, very quiet. But when she speaks up, you're just like, God dang. Wow, that's really powerful. So I want to get to know that person, right? So just because you're not loud or extroverted at the center of attention doesn't mean you can't network. In fact, you can network very well. I have lots of people in my network who I lean to. They may not be very extroverted, but man, they give really good insights.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

And it's, I think for a lot of for some of these, we're talking about these giants, right? Jane and Brett Myers and Bob. But for mere mortals, we may not know how those people ended up on Olympus, but if you ask them, they also are on a journey, right? And everybody has to learn how to recognize and then apply their backstage persona and their onstage persona. And for those of us in medicine, a lot of this is very much a procedure, right? If somebody pulled you off the street as a lay person and said, you're gonna need to intubate this person and put make sure you get something past the cords, we would all just freeze up, freak out, and run away, or whatever we would do, because we have no idea how to do that procedure. So first somebody had to show us the anatomy and then you know how to do a pre-procedure thing, and then we probably had to see one do one teach one, do it with seriousness of purpose, but not necessarily taking ourselves too seriously. There's so many things to that. Networking and building relationships, even getting to know ourselves enough to do this, these are all learnable procedures. We don't have to accept that you're either good at it or you're not. Some people may have a natural affinity to it, so they may be out of the gate faster. But all of us can take a moment, find our stride, and come up to it as long as we realize that this is a procedure I'm learning, and it's an ongoing learning thing. And at some point the perspective shifts, and now we're teaching in this and we're training people how to do it. And we do it by way of invitation, approachability, warmness in the interaction, and it but it's very much a learnable skill, I think.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

So if it's a learned skill, let's do that now. Let's talk about what that procedure is, what that procedure looked like. So you're a young EMS physician, ER physician, coming up, you're going to you're going to the conference, or you're going to you just started a new job and you're going to meet some folks who go tour headquarters and so forth. Let's talk about that procedure right now. So a listener who's in that position has something to come away with. And let's let's learn the skill. Let's talk through this procedure.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Yeah, so I think part of it, at least, and I've and I've thought about this with the fellows, because they they really didn't. Yeah, it's not as easy for us as it is for you, Dr. Carode. You already know people. I'm like, no, no. True. Now at one point I was learning to ride the bike too. So on the one hand, there's think about it. And on the other hand, there's don't overthink it. So if you're reaching for an index card, so you can look down and go, hello, I would like to ask you about your blood program. That's going to be so awkward. So the first steps are just human steps, right? Smile. Because most of us have to think about smiling. I sometimes I think I'm smiling and I look in the mirror and I'm not smiling. Or my fellows would often tell me, Boy Scouts, my kids, my wife, they'll all go, What are you mad about? And I'm like, not mad. This is just my face.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

I'm not mad. I'm disappointed.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

I'm like, sorry, I just look like this. But so the first thing is smile. It may even take a little bit of practice, right? We look at it and go, hi. And then introduce ourselves, have a handshake with that person, fist bump, whatever. But I like handshakes. But the other thing is a potentially social setting. So during the conference may not be like the presentation may not work, but at the coffee break is a perfect time. Everybody's going for a snack. You can go over and either do it randomly, whoever's next to you, or the way I used to do it was I would look at the conference schedule and go, that's interesting. That's interesting. Or if there was a speaker that was really exciting, I would try to make it a point to angle over there with a question. Or sometimes I had no question. I go, hi, and Chet. This is my first time at this meeting, and I thought your talk was interesting and see where that goes. But it is an approachability thing first, not an intelligence or accomplished person thing first, I think.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

Yeah, yeah. And as somebody who grew up really shy and somebody who just hated meeting new people because it was so intimidating and so frightening, what I found helpful for me. To just say hi to people and just go up to basically cold call, if you will, is I had I had a goal and what really helped me in AMSP for say I was part of the PEC podcast, I would go up to them and be like, hey, that talk was really informative and I learned a lot from it. And I'd be like, my goal is to like, I want to get them on the podcast so I can talk to them. And so I found that if I could do something not for myself, but for other people to enjoy what I enjoyed, it made it easier on me to go up to random people and be like, hey, I'm Phil Moy. I loved your talk. I'd love to talk to you more. So that's a mental trick that I've used to help me just walk up randomly with people. I agree. I shake hands, I make sure I have good eye contact, I smile, but I don't stare at them and bore through to their soul kind of thing. But yeah, exactly. But I make sure that I'm warm, come up warm and congenial. And I find that if I have a goal that's other than myself, hey, I'm the president of our Nash or of our local organization NMSP, and I thought your political talk here was really good. I'd like to have you come and talk to my local NMSP group. I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for the people I serve as the representative for our local NMSP chapter. And that just makes it easy for me. And so I go up, shake their hands, smile, and eventually see where the conversation goes, but I would always make sure I have some sort of way to either get their contact information or I give them mine. I try to get theirs to be easier.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, I think establishing that, like not having something in particular to talk about, except, yeah, just uh as you say, that that small thing. I really enjoyed your talk. And and then and then leading on, and I think asking questions is such a great way to uh to get somebody to to respond to you, to establish something. It's it's a compliment. But how did you get into this field? Or how did you find this niche? That's the post-talk question, right? Or oh, hey, you're from Los Angeles, and I hear that you guys are doing this really cool thing. Are you involved with that? Or something, something along those lines, or maybe I see that you're wearing a tar heel shirt and just some common connection, some something that uh to leap off with. And it doesn't even have to be professional. And uh, in fact, I think if it's not professional, sometimes that really opens that up. If it's fantastic shoes, like where'd you get those? Something that uh but something that like creates uh creates that bit of a connection, the the that bit of relevance there to initiate that conversation. I say we don't make it transactional, talk a little bit uh personal. I Chet, I agree. You think shaking hands is great, fist bump is good, you gotta read the room when it comes to that and um see what's uh see what's appropriate. The funny thing was when the pandemic had really grown up and we've talked about, hey, let's shake hands last, and the bumping of elbows or whatever became the like the thing, which was funny. I think we were all kind of laughing about it a little bit, but that also got us to laugh about it together. Okay, is that what we're doing now? That's what we're doing now. All right, cool. But it was it's a funny, little brief, funny moment, and then it gets gets that conversation rolling.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's the I had a great mentor named Mike Sanchez, and he used to tell us, let your aura proceed you. And we'd all shake our heads, and I would feel much more confident in my aura if I knew what I was doing. And he's like, No, you do know what you're doing. You're so fixated on what if this doesn't work or what if I mess up, that the energy you're sending off is not the energy that is normally you. So he used to, he would, he was a tremendous demander of perfection in our procedural skills and all that. But at the same time, he was hugely a confidence booster and used to tell us, hey, when you walk into that room to do that, whether it's a lumbar puncture, whether it's an intubation, chest tube, whatever, he goes, You gotta believe you're gonna do it. So, same thing here, our aura, this idea that you have we have to put aside our, yeah, I hope I don't mess this up. You have to go in there and go, I'm just gonna say hi. And I know how to say hi to people. And that energy sometimes is very attractive as well and pulls people in.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Yeah, and I'll jump in here and as an endurance sports guy, it's an endurance sport, just getting to know your network. I could think of several people I know where I've just briefly touched base with them, said, Hey, how are you? and then recognize their face in the next event that we've seen. Like, oh, hey, what's going on? Haven't seen you in a while. Cool, you having fun? Great. All right, I'm gonna go this way, you're gonna go that way. Uh for example, I could think of Nicole Boston, very good friend of mine now. Uh, was a mere EMS fellow. I interviewed her once for a podcast, published. She great paper on EKGs and pre-hospital STEMIs and whatnot. That was all the way back in 2014. I was like, oh my God, this person's like a guru. I got I'm not gonna know with her. And then, you know, I see her at a conference, I'm like, hey, thank you for coming to the podcast. Great, cool, thanks. Boom, quick 30-second talk. And then throughout the our careers, we just kept on bumping into each other and we get talking more, and she's in more of an educational realm than I am. Every now at every conference, we or any time we touch base, we try to get a run-in before our conference starts because she's an avid runner and I'm an avid runner, and be it hopefully five miles or less, and anything like that, but she's a much better marathon runner than I am. But yeah, we try to get a run-in and everything, and it's a good way to catch up. But that took a while to develop there and everything, and she was intimidating to me. But and just be aware that these touch base network and saying hi to people, they do pay off eventually. It's like working out a little bit every day. One of the days you'll find your six pack.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Yeah, that's and I think one of the things too, like when we're talking about going and meeting folks at conferences and being on all the time, especially to that positive energy and uh and being outgoing, especially if one is not naturally so that can be exhausting. And I think that's why a lot of folks are like, oh God, so just like an ER shift, I tell the residents like, get out of the ER wants a shift. Um, and so somewhere mid, maybe two-thirds of the way through the shift, I'm like, all right, let's go to let's go to the coffee shop. We have a 24-hour Starbucks in our lobby, which is uh really just fantastic. And like, all right, let's go get some coffee. No, I'm not really I'm not hungry, but I don't need coffee. I'm like, that's not the point. The point is get out for a minute. When you are on, yeah, I used to attend bar and when I get there at five and then on till one, this long shift, this eight-hour shift of being outgoing and friendly and welcoming and and so forth was exhausting. And what I found was that really helped with that, I didn't realize how much I loved it, but when one of the kegs would run dry, our our kegs were in the fridge downstairs. So I'd have to go downstairs into the basement and change out the change out the keg. And it was just it was silent there. And that couple of minutes just helped me get that reset and re-refill the tank and energize me. So, Phil, what you were talking about, okay, I'm gonna go to my room for 15 minutes and just chill out. I think that is important to sustaining that to that outgoingness and so forth. Like you never want somebody to walk up to you and you subconsciously give the impression, oh God, I gotta talk to somebody else. And they will pick up on that. So give yourself a break and do that in in chunks. The challenge then is like after years go by, you've built this big network, it's all these people that I know that that are friendly and wonderful to be around. And I could spend a whole day, evening, week with just them talking and and hanging out and stuff, and they're that cool. What am I doing with 30 of those people? And I have five days in San Diego or Tampa or wherever to reconnect with them. And how can I uh how can I uh refresh that relationship? How can I water that plant and and keep that growing when I know I have only so much time that I can spend?

SPEAKER_04 30:14

Yeah, and I think that honestly, I think that thinking about it, being aware that this is something that's gonna happen or that you have to do is really the most important step. Once you're aware, then you can pace yourself or you can prepare yourself, whatever that is. And in that way, there is an element of training and deliberateness to this. And I think it's if you've ever given a big talk, and I know we all have, the way to look most natural is to have prepared incessantly for it. So life's that too. And I'm not saying we have to walk through a series of pre-rehearsed steps, but if we've thought about who we are and how we're gonna be and what it is that we're up to, then every interaction we have can be a little more relaxed, but more productive as well, because we've already done the work of thinking about it. Who am I being? What am I up to? Why am I this way? All those things happen backstage so that when you're on stage, you're not struggling with that.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Yeah, completely. And you'll find that as you start with this being a little deliberate, it's gonna feel forced or it's gonna feel like a workout, but like anything, your body, your mind will adapt and it'll eventually become second nature per se. It's like your patient encounters as a young physician, as a medical student. That was freaking terrible. I remember on my first page rotation, I walk in, I was like, I have no idea how to talk to a kid. How do I talk to a kid? And now I'm fine talking with my pediatric patients. I come through the ER, but man, I remember that feeling of awkwardness and just be like, oh man, this is something I gotta work at. I just pointed out uh just uh something I needed to work on for to make me more of a complete physician. And I feel like all of you listening here, either if you're a physician or EMS clinician, whatnot, the approaching somebody is already in your blood because you do that with your patient encounters every single day. It's just your goal is a little bit different. I'm trying to figure out what's going on with you, or your goal this time is not quite selfish, but it's just hey, I just want to get to know you, which is a little more intimate, a little bit different, but at the same time, the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Yeah, the short version of that is is a really good example that we have from cinema. A short introduction uh introduction, or a greeting, hello, short introduction. My name is Enigo Mantoya, establishing a relevant connection, you killed my father, and setting expectations, prepare to die.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

How many characters does he do that to? Everybody in the movie, I think.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

That's opener. He only does it to one. He tells he tells the the man of black what he what he would do, but then when he finally meets the evil Count Rugen, then he lets him have it. It's a very cathartic moment. Pays off, got it. What do you do after that after that introduction? No, there's a ream of books on networking, particularly for sales. And that and that's when I again it feels transactional, like when I get the email from from whatever industry's LLC that I stopped by their booth at the conference. Okay, I know why you're emailing me, and now god damn it, you're on my now, I'm on your email list and I have to unsubscribe because when it's a it's real, it's genuine, it's personal personal. How do we follow that up? How do we water that plant?

SPEAKER_04 33:51

So I I think some of it, and I was the one saying just a minute ago, we have to be deliberate. But having been deliberate going into this, there's an element of natural follow-through that happens. And all of us that are athletes know that if you overthink your golf stroke, your tennis stroke, your baseball swing, your basketball shot, if you overthink it, you're probably gonna not nail it. Because your head got into it when it was just a natural follow-through. On the other hand, there's a reason why NBA teams have free throw shooting coaches because you are supposed to get your head into that space at some point. So the way that applies to this, I think, is entering every interaction, whether it's working with my medics on the street, or whether it's engaging an audience at a talk that I'm giving, or whether it's just wandering around during the break and choosing to meet somebody. In all of those, I have a purpose that I've thought about. And then after the fact, I typically, and I'm old school this way, I still write people's name down. And the reason I do that is I remember things better when I write it down. I love walking up to people. It's a game I've played since I was a kid. I love remembering people's names. I don't like going up because I'm pretty good with faces already. So I like sticking a name with it. And then next time I see them, they don't know, but in my notebook, I'll actually maybe write the circumstance of it, or this was the guy I JR introduced me to and then walked off. So I had to make conversation. So now I have something that reminds me. But I'll actually not everybody, but I'll follow up with a small percentage, or I'll go out of my way to pick an email and send it and go, hey, whatever happened with that. And sometimes it's a little bit later. I've got some medical directors from the Northeast that wanted to work on something after some comments I made, and I still have to follow up with them, right? So I'm aware now that I'm not gonna be able to circle back with everybody, but if I can get a handful of them, it's a beginning. And I think too often in our career, we want it all. I want to be a hundred percent connected, but you can't really do that. So you may have to take a bite out of it and then follow up a little bit more, reach out to somebody else. And worst case scenario, you'll see them next year, right? And just like you forgot to reach out to them and circle back, chances are they also forgot to follow up because their life got busy too. So again, you're back at square one with the smile and the handshake or the fist bump, but this time you already know each other once, right? So the under message there is if you don't circle back, all is not lost, it's still a familiar face, and you can start there, you know. So we can take some of the pressure off that way, I think.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

I want to speak in favor of I know like we get this big placard name tags when we go to conference and stuff, and you're wearing around your neck all the time. That is so important. Uh, it really is. And there's folks I've seen, I'm like, okay, I've seen and talked with you like three conferences. Three years now, I still can't remember your name. That happens. I'm so terrible at remembering names, and so please just make yeah, wear the name tag. I do not expect that you necessarily know who I am, even though I am familiar to you.

SPEAKER_04 37:13

Do you not know me?

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Do you know who I am?

SPEAKER_02 37:16

I am JR.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

No, I'm not uh not nearly that famous, but I that they just want to speak in uh in favor of doing that as you're networking. Wear that name tag, wear something to remember you by. I my medical school and uh residency interviews, I wore a little Batman pin.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

It's a little thing, but that was the conversation. That uh that that really helped. Um and I heard back too, that was something that are like, oh yeah, they go with a Batman pin.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think to follow up is important. And if you don't, it's not the end of the world. Like I said here, I've had plenty of relationships where I've just touch base sky them at every conference, and it just isn't a habit there. But the follow-up, getting their contact information, whatever it is, is important. I personally, my trick, I'm like JR. I'm terrible with names. I wish I had Chet's skill to remember names. I am terrible with names. So when I get hey, what's your text? What's your number? I'm gonna text you, I write down JR Pickett, Utah, right? Or something like that. Or Chet Corode, Texas, Air Force, something in my cell phone there. Or if they give me a card, I'll take a picture of the card, or maybe I'll try to take a selfie with them and be like, oh, this is I have two pictures in a row. Oh, this is who I was talking to, and everything. What'll help with that follow-up that I found was again, as a very shy little kid, is having the goal in mind not for myself, but for somebody else. I'm doing this not for me, but I'm doing this because this person has an interest in education, and I'm really good friends with Maya Dorset. I think he should know Maya Dorset. So I'm gonna connect him with her. And so let me get your contact information. I'm gonna introduce you to my good friend Maya. She is like a guru, a god in education. So she will talk your ear off, but here you go. And so it gets me that information. So it gives me the motivation to also remember to follow up with said person.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

I think there's power in that, right? So sometimes when we do, on the one hand, when we're doing it for ourselves, we might be very invested. On the other hand, sometimes we let things go when it's only for us. We're willing to sacrifice that. So when we make it about somebody else, we are maybe a little more diligent, a little more dialed in to help them out, that kind of thing. That's a great point. I I also think that all of these things are learned skills, right? So I'm not, I wasn't always great with names. One summer I worked at a diner in undergrad, and I was serious about the job because I needed the money. But I also thought it was a great game. So I started playing this game where I would not write down any of the orders, and I would bet my tip with the party that was there, I'll bet you my tip that I can remember your names and your orders when I come get that. They're like, You're not gonna write this down. I'm like, nope. So it was a little game I was playing, and I usually in groups of three or four, easy. One time it was a kind of alumni party, so it was like 10 people. It was a family, so that was easy. And in my mind, I was trying to figure out how I was gonna remember this. Two dudes that were a year ahead of me ended up switching places, so I muffed that order, so they didn't want to give me the tip. And I was like, fair enough. I said I would nail it and I didn't. But their dad came back in two minutes later and he's like, hey man, those dudes switched seats, you had it. Good job. And he left me a bigger tip, and he goes, I know you're working at it. That was pretty fun. But the point in the story is a lot of times if you can make it a game, that's great. And if you can't make it a game and it's a procedure, that's okay too. Almost everybody who's really good at something had to work at it, right? So if this is important, we'll take a crack at it, we'll work at it, and to the extent that we put some energy into it, we're gonna get something out of it. It's but it's not the end of the world if that's not our big thing. We don't all have to be great at it, even though we all live in a world of relationships. So it helps if we get better at it. That's the way I try to frame it. We had you had the book. We can do a leader's read thing if we want this too.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Yeah, we can do a leader's thing if you want. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:18

What do you think, J.R.? Is that interesting? You have an awesome book list. I actually screenshotted your uh Facebook book list from that one uh EMS group, and it's actually one of the pinned notes in my phone now. Books by uh books to read from J.R. Pickett.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

That's quite a compliment that you saved that. That's very cool.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

Listeners, one of the things that we have found is that successful leaders and if nothing else, just interesting people tend to read different things. So if you're not necessarily a page turner, but you like to swipe, that's fine too. But what we found is life is not long enough for each of us to have all the experiences we need to succeed one at a time. So a lot of times hearing about, reading about, finding out about somebody else's experiences are better. So this segment of our podcast is called Leaders Read. And this is where we're gonna talk about something that somebody else has written that was very beneficial to us and added to our leadership game without us having to go through the experience firsthand. So we're gonna talk to you about some books that we like.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Well, I'll let Jarr go first because he has his whole list apparently on social media.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I do have a whole list, but I'm gonna start with an essay. And the essay is uh Message to Garcia. And this is a this is a story. Fuck, edit this, come back to it. I gotta bring it up so I can talk. Oh damn it. I had what's picked out.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Um that's a great pick.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

But uh so, anyways, all right, back at it. I yeah, I do have a lot of books that I love, but I want to bring up first an essay called A Message to Garcia. And this was written in 1899 by Albert Hubbard, and it is a story about an American soldier who's uh Lieutenant Andrew Rowan. So just before the Spanish-American War, essay describes Rowan having to carry a message from President McKinley to General Garcia, who's leader of Cuban insurgents. And somewhere in the mountain of Cuba, no one knows where. So the point of this story was that this young officer was given a task of I need you to get a message to Garcia, and really didn't have uh other constraints or guidance on it. This is what I need done. And I need to get this done. And he went out to do that because McKinley wanted to make contact with this general, uh, this insurgent general, uh And uh needed somehow to make that contact, but didn't have any formal means to do so. And what the essay uh does is it's praising the individual initiative and creativity uh and on the part of Lieutenant Rowan, but also the leader having that trust in somebody to execute that, to say, this is the end state, this is what I need to get done, uh, and giving the faith to to execute how he uh sees fit, how he needs to. Um, and this essay, in fact, got me a job. I was interviewing, I'd gone through a whole series of interviews, and uh, the final boss, if you will, was the city manager. And I looking around the room and taking the clues as I'm talking with him, he's got a placard from when he was a Navy officer, he was a submarine officer, and uh I saw that, and he had some of the bearing of military bearing as well, so you could read it. And um, he said, Why should I hire you? The last question he asked me is, Why should we hire you? And I said, I can bring a message to Garcia. And the funny thing was he understood immediately what that meant and smiled, and he's like, All right, like he got the fact that I could show initiative with minimal supervision and get things done with a visualized end state that allowed me to explain to the other person I was interviewing with what that was, because he wasn't familiar with the story, and so it's a common story in like officer circles in the military to have to learn about that. So that is my leadership thing, and it's a short read. So please go out and read that. But consider as a as an individual and as an employee, how you can do that, show initiative and move forward, but also as a leader, how you can find those people capable of doing that and support them in that way, which a lot of time means getting out of their way. That's awesome. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Uh I guess I'll go next here. I think a book that's a self-improvement, but it's also helped me tremendously in leadership projects, creating processes as leaders to improve whatever you're improving on. The book is Atomic Habits by James Clare. Came out five, six years ago. I think it's a fantastic book. And the overall essence of it, habits, we all know the habit loop, right? The cue, the stimulus, the reward, et cetera, et cetera. But it phrases it in a way that really puts it to the to how it can really influence your life, right? So the overall theme I could put is you don't rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your processes. And your processes are all habits, right? And what's interesting is he doesn't he starts with the cue, which is part of the beginning of the habit. There's a cue that stimulates to you to this is a bad habit, but smoking cigarettes, right? But he goes even further back, he's like the beginning of a habit is changing your identity, right? And he uses this really interesting metaphor. And there's this shopkeeper, these two boys. The shopkeeper finds that one of his products is gone, and he accuses both the boys, you guys stole this. One kid says, I didn't steal that, and the other kid says, I don't steal. Who are you gonna believe? You're gonna believe that kid that says, I don't steal. That's his identity. He's I am not somebody who steals, so that is who I am. And so basically he's talking about the habits and how it's reinforcing whatever you want to do and how to make something catch on that you as a leader truly believe that those who are in your charge should be doing, and this is how you get that process going. And another important thing that I come out of that book about is especially as habits, is we're all human, we all make mistakes. But I think what's a nice kind of thing that I I either daily or every weekly, I think in my head, I'm like, I'll miss something, and that will that's okay. But my to to reinforce that habit, I always say, don't miss twice. Because if I miss twice, I'm establishing a new habit, right? So I want to keep good habits in there, and that'll make me a better person, a better leader, a better follower, etc. etc. And it helps me guide whatever processes I want to improve upon or want to change or want to do. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

There was uh I saw me somewhere on Facebook, and I think that's great. I love atomic habits. And it was we talk about time travel and the concern that a very small change somewhere in the past will greatly change the future. So why is it so hard for us to believe that a small change right now will positively impact our future later? The butterfly effect, yeah. Why can't we use the butterfly effect to our advantage? That habit, that little thing. And I love how Clear talks about the making those, get making a little bit of progress here and there, a little bit of changes here and there.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

So I think by the way, great picks, those are really interesting and I feel somewhat accomplished because I have read both. So that's yeah, I'm on the right track.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

It is. Although I hate to dash everybody's hopes, but uh message to Garcia was actually fiction. Uh there's there are historical characters there. The uh the folk hero story is uh exaggerated.

SPEAKER_04 49:34

And that's another great gift of J.R. Pickett. He lifted me up in one moment and dashed me down immediately.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Oh, there are dreams. There are a lot of women that are out there from my prior single woman that said the same.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

I you're part of a long list of people I've crashed.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Sticking pins in a voodoo doll with my name on it.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

So I'll tell you, reading is one of those things. I feel like I meet a lot of people who say, Oh, yeah, I don't read, I just watch the movie. And I always go, okay, that's whatever you like, man. But I feel like you miss something. And I feel like you don't only have to read nonfiction. I also have colleagues, some of whom you know, that have told me, I can't believe you read so much fiction. It's a complete waste of time. And I disagree with that. I feel like there's opportunity and space within our experience to do both. We get into the fiction, there's great invitation to imagination and creativity that comes out of that. Sometimes it just puts you in a headspace where you're reading the book and enjoying it in the foreground, and in the background, your mind is figuring out whatever it needs to do. It can take a little walk on its own, right? Fiction, nonfiction, all of it is good. The a book I'll talk about today, though, is one called Hero on a Mission by an author named Donald Miller. What I found really compelling about this, he says, hey, every great story has a hero, a villain, a victim, and a guide. And then he goes a little further and he goes, if you look closely at your life, you may have had an opportunity to play each of these roles at some point. You've been a victim, probably, you may have been a villain inadvertently, you might have been the hero, you might have been a guide. And sometimes we look at ourselves only from the hero role, and we don't realize that we have been the other. But an interesting point he draws is that if you look at the villain, it's somebody who exerts their power or feels powerful by derailing somebody else, holding them down. But if you go further back, they were usually a victim at some point. And this is how they went. If you look at the hero, they are trying to help, trying to change something. They're coming at a task, trying to achieve something. Generally, they have some gap or flaw in which they need some help. But if you look further back in the hero story, they also have been a victim at some time. And very often, if you look at the guide, it's usually somebody who had some resolution. They accomplished a heroic quest, or it's a recovered villain or something like that, who is now trying to guide and help and is adding into somebody else. So that's a very short summary. But Donald Miller not only walks you through this concept of living our life as a hero on a mission, but also has a bunch of exercises and other things you can do that help you craft to recognize and then craft your story. Hero on a mission, highly recommend it. It's interactive, but love the fact that we're all talking about and doing the leader's read thing.

SPEAKER_03 52:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love the hero villain thingy because oftentimes it's the same beginning. They're both a victim. It's just the villains that I felt this pain, and I want everybody else to feel this pain, stereotypically, and the heroes love this pain, and I want no one else to feel this pain. That's how you respond.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

Yeah, and when I saw the thing, when I when he first described it, I was like, ah, Bruce Wayne. And I guess the other counterpoint would be the Joker, whatever. But I've never been villain-obsessed. I've been a Bruce Wayne Batman fan since my earliest days. There's pictures pre-internet, thank goodness, floating around of me walking around in my daily life with blue gloves, a blue bandana, and those blue crew socks pulled up as high as I could because I had to achieve the boot effect on an immigrant income there.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

So we the spikes on a glove.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Couldn't figure out how I was going to do that. And my mom was hilarious. She would crochet these blue things for me to wear. And then finally, my parents got sick of the costume everywhere we went. So they were like, there's this thing called a secret identity. I'm like, what's that? Like, no, Batman doesn't roll around as Batman everywhere. He goes places as Bruce Wayne. I'm like, good point. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

This is a whole different side of you. I saw this coming.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Oh man. Chad, there's this wonderful comic book panel where it's like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman meet each other for the first time, and they agree to tell each other who they really are. And so they're all holding the last of truth, One Woman's Last of Truth, and Wonder Woman goes Diana, and Superman goes Clark Kent, and Batman goes Batman.

SPEAKER_04 54:33

I've seen that. I love that. Yeah. Back here on the shelf, there's the Encyclopedia of Comic Book Superheroes, Volume 1, Batman. It's the real deal.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

So I'll tell you a little story too about Kevin Conroy, who vo voiced Batman in the animated series for many years, a very accomplished voice actor who recently passed away, unfortunately. He his thoughts on the character was that Batman was not the mask he was putting on. He was Batman. The mask he was putting on was Bruce Wayne. He felt himself as this hero, this force for justice, etc. And it was being that Playboy that was the that that was the mask that he put on. But back whenever he's in his private lair with the Alfred, then he was still like got the gravelly voice and you know Alfred. Yeah, exactly. That's the I think Christian Bale adopted that as well with the with his portrayal of character.

SPEAKER_04 55:39

Yeah, absolutely. That's a whole different uh we should do that episode.

unknown 55:43

Bam.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

Superheroes and leaders.

SPEAKER_04 55:46

There there is definitely a leadership lessons from uh superheroes episode in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

That I look forward to that one.