STAT Leadership Episode 7: Authenticity and Credibility

Keys to Authentic Leadership: Staying True to Your Team and Values

In this episode of STAT Leadership, hosts Phil Moy, Chetan Kharod, and JR Pickett discuss the importance of authentic leadership. They explore what it means to be genuine as a leader, emphasizing actions aligning with stated values, the necessity of vulnerability, and building trust within a team. They share personal stories and insights on the challenges and rewards of authentic leadership, including handling mistakes, showing compassion, and maintaining consistency. The hosts also discuss the significance of emotional contagion and balancing the needs of the individual with the team's overall well-being. Recommendations for related leadership books and resources wrap up the episode.

00:00 Introduction to STAT Leadership
00:10 Meet the Hosts
00:28 Defining Authentic Leadership
01:11 The Importance of Authenticity
03:59 Consistency and Vulnerability in Leadership
06:19 Balancing Compassion and Discipline
12:30 Loyalty to Your Team
22:46 Emotional Contagion and Positivity
24:57 Book Recommendations and Closing Thoughts

Referenced in this episode:
The Go Giver by Bob Burg and David Mann  https://a.co/d/cyvf0A8

Bird by Bird by Anne Lamont  https://a.co/d/7quU8UR

The Human Factors Assessment and Classification System  https://www.safety.af.mil/Divisions/Human-Performance-Division/HFACS/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When the call comes in, leadership is everything.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

We analyze the data in real time, making the tough decisions under pressure. Welcome to Stat Leadership. Do it now. Do it now. Hello, podcast listeners. It's Phil Moy here from St. Louis.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Hey, this is Chet Carood from New Braun Foles, Texas.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

And J.R. Pickett from Salt Lake City, Utah. All right. Why don't you bring us into this episode that we're going to talk about, Chet?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

All right. Hey, this episode, we're going to talk about keys to authentic leadership. And this can be a broad topic. So we're going to talk about staying true to your values as a leader, engaging and being loyal to your team, building trust through authenticity and topics like this. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

I got it. Yeah, why don't we start with defining what authenticity means? Because that's a vague word and everything. And for a while there, I've heard the You gotta be authentic. You gotta be authentic. What does that mean, per se, to each of you? I think that would help us guide our audience when talking about authentic leadership.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

I think for me it's you mean what you say and you say what you mean. And I know that's really just pitiful, right? But if you are if you are disingenuous with folks, if you're if you say one thing, you say what your values are, but then your actions speak to something completely different, then I think that's not being authentic. And I think that's important because people see through that immediately if you are not. And I think that a lot of times in leadership education, we get caught up in these sayings like what I just said, right? We get caught in these like pithy little things and say them but then act totally differently. Anyone can watch a Jocko Willink podcast and get some really great leadership pointers and some great little sayings and so forth, but and you can repeat them all you want, but if you're not if you're not demonstrating that you believe in them by living those, then you're not you're not authentic. Now, that's not to say that we have to be that we have to live up to all of our deals all of the time. We are human beings. And as such, like I'm not gonna be the best version of myself every day, but at the same time, I'm gonna try.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And you know what? Actually, that's part of the authenticity, right? Because if you're putting on a show, most people are gonna be able, like the first time they meet you, they may not realize it, but with enough touch points, they're gonna go, not real. Or this guy's real. So I think part of owning our lack of perfection is part of that. Our team has to realize that you're not just a preachy set of good words. I once had an airman pull me aside and go, you, sir, are the real deal. And I was like, what does that even mean? I appreciate that. I'm trying to be, but what does that mean to you? And he goes, Like you were doing the swearing in for that one lieutenant and promoting him to captain, and you forgot the oath of officership about halfway through. And you didn't pretend fake or anything. You made a joke to kind of lighten it. You owned the fact that you forgot it, and then you started it again and you nailed it. And that's exactly what happened. Unfortunately, I made direct eye contact with the guy I was swearing in like this, and I don't know why. Looking right at him, I just went and forgot the oath right then. I'd said it hundreds of times before and practiced it the night before, but I totally botched it on stage. Thankfully, it was only 200 of my closest airmen, not too embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Only 200 people, and that's all you can you can have them killed.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

That's right. Select all delete, and that never happened. But to me, that's what authentic is, right? You you espouse certain ideals, you vocalize certain things, you do your best to live up to those in a visible way. You try to model that as much as you can, and then with the understanding that you're not going to be perfect. And when you're not perfect, you have to own it so that you're not blame shifting or something else. You're relatable. People feel it's within reach for them to be that way. And because you are either humble or you're also relatable, they want to reach for it too. And then there's other sub-behaviors. Authentic means that, for example, if I steal the credit for something that my subordinates did, that may be authentic behavior, meaning I really do like taking credit for your work, but that's not going to make you successful. So there's types of authenticity that are probably better than others.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Yeah, and I think that's a beautiful way to put it is authenticity, like J.R. said doing what you're saying, but it's it's not afraid to be wrong and to be vulnerable. In this day and age where we have all the social medias and someone saying I'm a hundred percent right and everybody else is wrong. That that's a quick compass to saying this guy is FOS kind of thing. I think I agree. If I have a leader that says, no, I was wrong here or I've messed up here, that kind of was like, okay, all right, let's move on together here and everything. And that kind of builds that implicit trust. I don't know what it is about that, but it's just that being vulnerable is no, you're right, I'm wrong, you're right. I thought wrong on this aspect of it. And so that kind of builds that trust.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, and I think people can tell in a almost immediately if you are saying one thing and doing another, that's pretty visible, or if it's not immediately visible, you can fool them once with that, but then you're probably not gonna get away with it again. And the other thing that's really exhausting as a follower is a leader who flubs something, apologizes for it, and then keeps flubbing that same thing. And then you realize, oh, actually this is just how they do things. And they're gonna keep stringing us along by apologizing each time, but this is what they do, right? So that's also demoralizing and leads to mission failure. Yeah, it's okay to own the mistake, but we really got to try not to keep making the same one over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Yeah, I think that, and for whatever reason, I think within our societal values, that being disingenuous, that putting on a different face than who and what you really are, I think that is frowned upon more than being authentically you, even if that you is very imperfect. And I think leaders that leaders we've served with, we certainly served with people who are assholes. And that there are, yeah, there's people you've worked with who like, oh god, I really I like I don't like that guy, but at least he's he doesn't pretend to be something he's not. And I think that there's some feeling of when you that person with the five-minute personality, uh as I've been told of some people, is once you peek behind the curtain and like, oh, this guy's a narcissist. Like, oh my god, it's uh it makes you matter, like then they pull one over on you, I think. So yeah, I think it's okay to it's okay to show some of those sides of yourself that maybe aren't that aren't perfect, that aren't picture perfect, and I think that makes you more believable, more approachable, more three-dimensional.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah, I think the good point in there is yeah, admit your mistakes. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable like that, but learn from them.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, and I think underscoring all of that is this idea that your character matters. You want to be humble, you want to be honest, you want to demonstrate loyalty and respect. On the other hand, it's not always loyalty of, okay, I know you, so I'm gonna give you a pass on that. I think that is wobbly for followers too. It makes them uncertain which one of which leader is showing up today. Is it the one that's gonna give me a break or the one that's gonna break my neck? I can't tell. So you're better off being a consistent leader, setting the standard, enforcing it consistently across the board, but not in a malignant way. But because ultimately I've always wanted the people I worked for or my commanders, I wanted to know what their right and left boundaries were, and I wanted, I appreciated the fact that they were willing to hold us all to that. I didn't necessarily always like getting checked up on, but it was necessary, and I could appreciate that they were showing up and doing their job, which which was good.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, and I saw the shows about Maximum Security Prison, and there was an interview with one of the corrections officers who'd been there for 20-some odd years. And this is a tough environment. And he really he had a good career, and he's talking about some of the various dangers of it, but he doesn't really get into scrapes with inmates. And he says, I'm just I'm firm, fair, and consistent. And that really defrays a lot of problems when it's when you're inconsistent that then that that creates problems with the inmates. I find that is also the case with my inmates, my daughters. So if I'm if I'm inconsistent, then that's then that's an opening, right? But at the same time, as you say, is this guy gonna give me a pass or is he gonna break my neck? I don't think that being firm, fairing, and consistent means that you don't give people grace for error. Uh I give people a lot of grace for a lot of stuff because they're for the grace of anyone, I go I, but I think that you have to be compassionate at the same time with with those with folks. And and authentically, if you're saying, no, that's that's all right, it's a mistake, and then you're talking smack about them behind their back, then then they'll figure that out eventually. And then again, you're not being consistent with what your stated values are.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Yeah, yeah. It's the whole I think stoic thing, be disciplined with yourself, flexible with others, kind of thing. And that kind of goes with your staying true to your values, which is so much easier to say than it is to do. It's so easy to be lazy and just not be disciplined to your values. But yeah, I agree. You gotta be disciplined with yourself and flexible with others and show them compassion. Obviously, it doesn't mean if they keep on doing the same mistake over again. You're saying, oh, that's no big deal, or everything like that. But with the same amount of compassion would be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yeah. Yeah, and authentic leaders, they have certain attributes that are probably recognizable to all followers, maybe more recognizable to experienced followers. And then from those attributes are springing certain behaviors that are recognizable and welcome in authentic leaders. An example might be an attribute of an authentic leader might be that they are hardworking, right? They don't have to come down to me making widgets and do my job better than me, but they have to do their job as hard as they can and show that they acknowledge that I'm doing my job as hard as I can. So that hardworking element kind of buys some trust. And I feel like leaders should it's not that you take the easy air-conditioned office job, but sometimes your job is the budget meeting. And sorry, it's not the street and the cool factor anymore. Your job is now to do management and personnel decisions, and it's part of your job, so you gotta bust your butt at that and be hard-working to have street cred with your team.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I think a quote uh love from the book Starship Troopers that embodies this. And if you read the book, you watch the movie, very different. I suppose supposedly the same source material, but nope, not at all the same. Not at all. But in the movie, as Michael Ironside's character, Rathchak says, everyone fights, no one quits. But in fact, in the book, the quote is everyone fights, everyone works. And what that is interpreted to mean is yeah, everybody has to get on the line and fight. I mean, kind of that that mantra of every Marine's a rifleman idea. But also there's work to be done to sustain this, and it doesn't matter who you are, what your rank is, then you're working, you're participating in that. And I think that right there, just not being afraid to pick up a broom or do the job that's that that's not very appetizing, that is that's that's demonstrating authenticity.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

It's also being loyal to your team, too, as well. Right? Yeah being loyal to your team is I remember when I started this new leadership position I'm in currently. It's just man, I've never done this before. What do I do? And all you got to really do is just listen to your team and listen to either their gripes or any issues they have, and that's your compass, and that's being loyal. And sometimes it's the boring shit. Right? Financial spreadsheets, personnel issues, just making sure those checks and check boxes are checked and everything. But that's that's part of being the leader, is just being loyal to your team and doing the stuff that no one really wants to do, but to keep things functional. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Telling your team member, look, I'm not gonna, and I'm gonna show you, I'm not gonna ask you to do anything that I would be unwilling to do myself. And that includes unpleasant tasks, but understand that we are a large organization, and I'm going to have to ask you to do unpleasant tasks. And I think that folks are like, yeah, okay, if you are available for that, you'll be helping me with it. And I do it a lot more cheerfully if I know, all right, they this person has done it, and they would be here doing it with me if they were available or able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I think the leader has to be agile, right? An example is we had on military installations, on Air Force bases, certain areas of the base are it's like the adopt a highway kind of concept, but certain parts of the base belong to certain squadrons. So your job is to keep that area clean. So you could easily just send your squadron out to pick up the trash, but I always liked doing that, but not so much the act of picking up trash, but being with the airmen while we all did it. The same afternoon, though, I'm sitting there disciplining somebody because they took five boxes of paperwork that had personally identifiable information on it, and instead of shredding it, they took it out to a dumpster and just threw it all in there because they were sick of having to do all the shredding. They thought it was a job beneath them. So in the morning, I'm picking up trash with all my airmen. In the afternoon, I'm having to have the discussion about you're gonna get in trouble now for dumping all this PII outside in a dumpster instead of shredding it the way you were asked to do. So you have to be able to do both. I think if I were busy smoking and joking all the time, people would wonder, what kind of leader are you? We're so glad that you can keep up with us on our workouts, but who's commanding this squadron right now? So you have to be able to do both. I think a leader has to be effective by filling the sandbag, but also you know, organizing the work schedule, whatever it is that they need to do. You have to be whatever you need to be for your people in your organization. In some ways.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah, you can't, like you say, you can't just be smoking and joking with the Joes. And that's the other piece of it, is you gotta do your job. You gotta lead. You gotta and being in that special position of leadership which affords some respect, you have to make unpleasant decisions and even unpopular decisions. But if you can explain those decisions, then again, that can be that can also demonstrate authenticity of this decision I made. I know we don't like it, but this is why this is why it has to be this way. Or this is why I chose this particular course of action.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah, that's like staying true to your values, which is which is easier said than done, as I said before. And you have to be the one that has to see the forest, and your troops are the one in the trees, and you're like, no, we have to pivot and we have to go this way, or we're gonna do this unpopular decision. And it is hard to stand up there and say, we're doing this, knowing that you're gonna get riddled with questions and you're gonna be questioned to the ninth degree. But that's part of being the leader is you have to lead them in the right direction. And sometimes that direction is much more rocky than the smooth hill that they're on right now.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah, you you if you can easily kick the can down the road. You can easily not make the hard decision. And but that doesn't get us in any better place either, to just let fate work it, work it out. And it's not to say you always have to do something, sometimes making the choice is choosing to not do something about whatever, but just kicking the can down the road and avoiding that decision, that indecision will come back to bite you more often than not.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's those are the challenges of if you look at like in Band of Brothers, Dick Witters has a certain style, Buck Compton has a different style. Both are effective even at the tactical level, right? So when they've taken a team through on a movement, they're both good at it. But they're early on in the series, you see a little bit of friction between those two leaders because Buck's getting told, hey, I don't want you gambling with the men. And he's kind of what's the big deal? I'm just getting to know them. You've known these guys a long time. This is my way of relating. And it's interesting Winters' perspective. He's like, what would you do if you won all their money? And Buck's like, what? You know, because he wasn't really thinking of that. And Winters was exceptional. He was thinking at a different level. He's I don't ever want to be in a position to take from my people. I want to relate to them, but they're relying on me. I have to approach that a little bit differently. Sure, different styles are there, but the exceptional leaders are thinking several steps down the road. You know, what if it goes that way? Am I ready to deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah, Phil, you mentioned being loyal to your team. And I so I think that is that's really I think sometimes we get this backwards, particularly in healthcare organizations, where it's our first duty is to the patients. No, really, your first duty needs to be to the team because happy team members, happy nurses, happy medics, happy doctors make happy patients. And if they can work their place of safety and they know that you've got their back, then they're going to be better versions of themselves when it comes to their work. And a corollary to that is a quote from Simon Seneck from one of his talks that sacrificing someone who works for you is to violate a deeply held social contract. And I've talked about this on our podcast before: the importance of safety and the importance of creating safety as a leader for the people that that work for you. And that's about being loyal to your team.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

There's a JR, there that's such a great point. And then there's this, there's always this wrinkle for leaders, right? So you want to give somebody as much of a chance as you can, and yet they keep doing something over and over. And now your loyalty, you also have to expand it beyond that individual to the rest of the team, everybody who's doing it right and not checking out or phoning it in. How are you loyal to those guys? And that leads you sometimes to appearing to be disloyal to this individual when really you're trying to be loyal to all the others who are getting it done every day. And these are the balancing movements that a leader has to be able to make. And then hopefully with empathy, and you're not soul crushing the other person. Hopefully, you're helping them elevate their game. But man, it's hard when it's perceived as disloyal, but really you're trying to look after the whole team by helping the one that's sticking out straighten themselves out.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

50% are gonna be the ones that are gonna be laggers, and the last 25% are never gonna buy in to what you say. And this book I'm reading, yeah, this book I'm reading, leadership, is your job as a leader is to get those 50% to buy in with the early adopters, 25%, and keep those 50% of people away from the 25% who will never buy in. It's not that you're neglecting them, you could still listen to the 25% who'll never pick up on it and listen to their complaints because they do have some valid points, and I always say someone always has something worthwhile to say, even though the majority of it is chaff. But you want to support the ones that are helping guide the ship in the right direction, and those could be the 50% you have to convince that this is the right path.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

There's very little that's as demoralizing to a high performer as you tolerating a low performer. People who are high performers in their job, and especially when they believe in the organization and uh believe that the organization is elite and that the people do a good job, then they look at somebody who's a low performer and like nothing happens to them, there's no counseling, there's no change in their career trajectory or anything like that. It's like, why am I working so hard? Clearly, performance means nothing here. So why should I do it? So I think that what you say about the loyalty to the team, it does mean cutting loose dead weight. But I also think that uh there's it's not as simple as that. Like cutting people loose, that's always the easy answer. That's for shitleaders that just oh, okay, well, fine, we'll fire this person, we'll decredential this person, whatever. I think that's a really an expedient that is given by people who don't really know how to. To lead the complex situation. But at the same time, like you do have to limit the impact to those folks. And maybe they're maybe they're treatable as somebody that you you give them some mentoring and not just a one-time sit down, like, hey, quit fucking up, uh, but or a hey fix yourself, but actually like the plan of sit down, let's do some ongoing counseling, let's set some goals, let's give you some additional training and uh to turn someone around. That that shows shows their the their commitment to the organization, shows their commitment to their performance and to their colleagues, even if they're not as solid as their colleagues are.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

I think that relates to this other concept that leaders have to be aware of, and that's emotional contagion, right? So if there's somebody who is disruptive in a negative way, that can pervade the organization very quickly. If the leader is not a positive outlook person and they tend to be always carrying the weight of the world or feeling put upon by their own bosses, or this sucks, why do we have to do that? Man, a leader with that approach has this power of emotional contagion that spreads so quickly through their whole organization. So some element of positivity and realism, but optimistically, can be game-changing for an organization. But that also goes back to transparency and being believable. If you're a kind of happiness, rainbows, and unicorns person, then that's not going to be believable. And your organization is going to look at you and go, what are you even smoking, man? That is not where we are right now. So you have to balance it. But that the potential for negativity to drown your team is there, particularly for the leader, because you impact everybody. Again, maybe this has a little bit of a military thing, but I think both of you, I know can relate as a triathlete and an outdoorsman, you're both going to be able to say that, yeah, physical fitness has a tremendous impact on the leader, their level of balance, their positive outlook. So this healthy body that can house a healthy mind is personally useful for the leader, exemplary for the organization. You can give people tools to pull themselves up when they're when the negativity is a rising tide. So a couple of thoughts there.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

I always have negativity in my mind when I'm doing these endurance sports. Why am I waking up at 3 30 in the morning drinking a protein drink and a potato, uh not a potato, a peanut butter bagel just to start swimming at seven in the morning? It's just uh there's always that. But yeah, we yeah, we talked a lot here. So, Chet or JR, could you just summarize for our audience specifically this episode, what our audience members should take home from this episode.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Go ahead, JR.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

So my thought on this is that you it's okay to be yourself. It is okay to to be a three-dimensional human being, to share with your team successes and failures. And I think as a leader showing doubt, like you don't want to show too much doubt, but at the same time, it's okay to say there are certain things I don't know. And I have faith that we're gonna adjust and so forth. And I think that authenticity, that that being the real you gains you a great deal of respect for the people that work for you and help to build that brand of you and their trust in you because you're showing them who you are.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah, very cool. Well to uh the last segment here. What's gonna our last segment gonna be? Books, characters, what do we think?

SPEAKER_01 26:03

One of the ways I like to learn about stuff, I've obviously there's fiction and nonfiction, but there's a popular style of business or management book that uses a parable or a story, and you follow this character through their story and you learn about whatever the overarching concepts were. One of the great ones that I've read is called The Go Giver, and it's a play on the phrase go-getter. So it's written by Bob Berg and John David Mann. So if you get a chance, I would recommend checking this out. And it picks up the story of a young man who's upwardly mobile, trying to close some contracts, and you're right in his story. He has to make this deadline, and he's having trouble. He wants to set a record in his company for sales or whatever, and he's having a hard time closing the deal. And his mentor kind of walks in and he goes, I want you to meet somebody. And he's thinking, Oh God, I don't want to meet anybody. He's, I want you to meet this man who's the most successful closer our company ever had. And then this guy perks up. He's like, I'm gonna get something out of this. So he enters the beginning of the story with this, I'm gonna get something in mind. And throughout the parable, he meets this remarkably successful person in all different ways, and he gives him the five laws of stratospheric success. And almost all of them have to be about, they're all about giving something as opposed to getting something. And by the end of it, he's made this journey that in the giving, he has become far more successful and marketable and valuable than he ever thought he was going to be by taking. So the go-giver, highly recommend it. Great book.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

I'll get it. I've not read it. My book, if I'll allow J.R. to keep on racking his brain for his book, as I surprised him with this last segment here. My book that just popped in my head is Bird by Anne Lamont. It's not a very popular book, but Anne Lamont is a very well-known author. She's a former alcoholic, found Christianity, but it's also just she's a very funny writer and it's very easy to read. It's a short book, not very long at all. But it's a book that offers practical advice about writing itself, but it uses the antidote starting with bird by bird. And what do we mean by bird by bird? She tells a story of how her brother in elementary school had to write a book report on this bird about birds, essentially. And he was panicking, he was frustrated, he's like, Oh my god, this is so hard. And his father got the book out and said, he says, How am I going to do all this by tomorrow? He goes, You do it bird by bird, one step at a time. And the book offers kind of practical advice as well as these funny stories about the writing process, emphasizing the importance of starting small, accepting imperfection, finding the joy in writing itself or whatever process you're doing. And it's a book that kind of just makes you feel good that, hey, it really is about striving and the journey, and even when it feels daunting or discouraging, to find value in the process itself. Because that's where we find contentment as humans, not just when I finish this book, everything is going to be great. Because that's not how life goes. So that's my book.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Nice. All right. So we've got a great list of leadership books. I'm going to give you something that's really dry: the human factors analysis and classification system. Because fuck you, that's why. No, I seriously it comes in a little manual. It's a it's a view of how to look at mishaps, look at how things went wrong. And it is geared towards aviation, but it it helps you to take a very holistic view of when things didn't go right. Why didn't it go right? What are the not just the human factors? Because I think it's easy to chalk screw-ups up to the person is not capable, the person is they're not, they're they're an idiot, they don't know what they're doing, or anything like that. And hardly ever is that actually the case. The case is much more often a combination of factors. Are there policy problems that make things unwieldy? Are there is there a lack of oversight? Are there cultural issues? Is there a culture that that makes you cut corners? Is there or that tolerates you cutting corners? As uh Jocko says, it's not about what you preach, it's uh preach, it's about what you tolerate. And so this very holistic view of it of an aviation mishap will help you to will help you to understand, again, giving people grace for when screw ups happen, but putting yourself into that pilot's shoes, same thing, putting yourself into employees' shoes. And so I know that's that's not that does not lend itself to audiobooks, I get it. But like the flip chart that that shows this analysis system, then I find that it's a really helpful way of dissecting something that went wrong. What's the name of the book again? Human Factors Analysis and Classification System. How many pages? It's a little the eliminated flipbook, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Hardly any at all. Like literally a flip book, huh? It's like a thin book.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Wonderfully disruptive, man. He took it totally took us in a different direction. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

I am nothing if not a disruptor. Appreciate it. Thanks for everybody for coming on and everything. Anything else we need to say before I push stop?

SPEAKER_01 31:51

No, looking forward to the next one. Great seeing you guys.