Every Day Counts: Jeff Pegues on Truancy and Chronic Absenteeism

In this engaging episode, Jeff Pegues, Assistant Superintendent in Parsons, Kansas, shares practical insights and real-world experiences tackling chronic absenteeism and truancy. Blending strategy with empathy, Jeff explores how schools can better support students, families, and communities to improve attendance and long-term success for every learner.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Rock Talk, the Telehealth Rocks podcast. I'm Julie Freejaw, your host. Telehealth Rocks is a federally funded program that brings behavioral health and pediatric care directly into schools. We partner with local communities to address social determinants of health, support school-based services, and provide telementoring training. Thanks for learning with us. Hi, everyone, and welcome to our third episode of Rock Talk, the Telehealth Rocks podcast. Today we're diving deep into a topic that hits home for schools everywhere: chronic absenteeism and true MC. I'm joined today by Mr. Jeff Pegese, the Assistant Superintendent of the Parsons School District. Mr. Pegese, would you mind introducing yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Sure. As you said, my name is Jeff Pegese. I'm the assistant superintendent of Parsons USD 503 down here in Southeast Kansas. I've been in this position for five years. And prior to that, I was a principal for nine years in the Coffinville District nearby. So very familiar with Telehealth Rocks and all the great work you all do. And like everyone, we've been battling chronic absenteeism, you know, for it seems like a long time. So uh something we deal with quite often.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Um well, yeah, thank you so much for that introduction and again for joining us today. We're really looking forward to hearing everything you have to say about um, you know, chronic absenteeism and truancy in in your school district. So I guess we can just start off. If you want to start by telling us a little bit about your school district, I think that'd be a great place to start.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah. Parsons, like Coffeyville before where I've been, is very unique for Southeast Kansas. Uh we have uh very high diversity. I think um we have a lot of at-risk factors that factor into what we do, but make makes our work rewarding. Uh, we have the highest percentage of foster care in the state of Kansas in Parsons. We have three large group homes with some of the most traumatized students in the state of Kansas that need a lot of support. Um we have the second highest poverty in southeast Kansas, and we have the highest percentage of students with disabilities in Kansas. So um, you know, teaching the whole child, you know, creating support, um, thinking outside the box, using progressive uh initiatives to to help kids and doing whatever it takes to help kids is is kind of what we do. I really I love being in Parsons. I I think that what what we do, we make decisions on what's best for kids, and that you you feel that throughout our whole district. Um, I think our diversity is a huge strength um uh for our school district. And um I I'm real proud of the work we're doing here.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Fantastic. Thank you so much for all of that information. I've when you brought up all of those statistics and you were really able to kind of set the scene for us. I just really appreciate that. And I really love that you mentioned the whole child as well. You know, the blisk model is something we use a lot in telehealth rocks. So really like that you you brought that in as well. So let's kind of dig into truancy and chronic absenteeism. Can you tell me how your district defines truancy versus chronic absenteeism and why that distinction matters?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Great question because that confuses a lot of people. Chronic absenteeism is when you when you miss more than 10% of the school school year. Um, so you get below that 90% attendance line. You know, the thing about chronic absenteeism, I always think is that's that's like the first red flag that something's going on with that child. So that's our first chance to to find out what's going on. When you're talking truancy, that's a law. Uh chronic absenteeism, not really a law, it's a tracking method. Truancy is law when you miss this the 357 rule. Three days in a row, five days in a semester, or seven days in a year that are unexcused. That's where it becomes a confusion. When those are unexcused absences, then turancy paperwork is filed with the county. Child is usually issued a notice to appear. Um, there's there's work in the judicial system with that.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Gotcha. Thank you so much for those definitions. Yeah, like you said, I think sometimes it can be a little confusing since you know there there feels like there can be some overlap there. Um so, you know, moving kind of into the roots of these issues. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, when students start missing school regularly in your district, what are those most common root causes that you guys are encountering?

SPEAKER_01 4:18

I think everybody's seeing a little bit of the apathy following COVID. You know, when when we had COVID, we missed a lot of school and everything was fine. The increase in technology has allowed those kids to miss school. They can get on their Google Classroom, find out what they missed, get it done at home, stay on top of their work, where that was different than you know, before. A lot of our parents, it's that cycle of poverty where they had a poor experience in school, and so they don't see the importance or have poor attitudes towards school, and and that it's hard to break that cycle, you know, and it's been in place for a while. Um, housing instability is a big problem. Everything costs more right now, and um our our population is transient, you know, and um sometimes they're living with their grandparents or an aunt milk hold and they got kicked out of the house. And so just trying to find them and where they're at sometimes is an issue that we face with one of those root causes, just the instability there. You know, I think a lot of parents lack we we see a lot of parents lacking parent parental skills. You know, the kids are in charge at home at even a young age, and and they don't have the skill set to handle maybe some of the mental health issues or or or things that they're battling with their child. So best we can pin it down. It's it it's a lot of things, but but that's where we probably Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Thank you so much for you know giving all of that background. And I think I you know, I like how you kind of brought in the rural aspect of, you know, maybe some of these root causes too, because I think that kind of leads into my next question. And, you know, it really is, you know, the rural aspect of this is really at the heart of the work that we do. And so I just really appreciate you bringing that in. So then I mean, I guess we could expand a little bit more on that, you know, what are some of the unique challenges that a rural school district faces when it comes to truancy that urban districts may not deal with? And how are you guys kind of working to address those specific challenges?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

You know, I think I think what's unique for rural school districts is we're smaller school districts. So there is a there's limited support staff, you know. You're lucky if you have one counselor at a school, you know, lucky. Um with with all the increases of challenges too, we just don't have the we don't have the personnel to support all of these challenges, especially with chronic absenteeism and mental health and behavior, you know, increases in behavior are something we're challenged with all the time. So, you know, I think that's where the community health worker has just becoming huge for us is we don't have time or the personnel to do home visits or to, you know, really dig deep and try and solve those barriers to that to that child's attention. We got so many things that are going on. So that limited uh school staff is is really a big thing for for rural school districts that more of the urban half as as larger districts. You know, the other part is that in the community too, those social supports in the community that that are there in big in big cities, they're not here in small towns. We we don't have the resources or the personnel to really help these families get out of tough situations and and and help themselves. You know, and then in a lot of areas, hopefully Parsons a little better, is limited access to health care. You know, mental health therapists are really hard to find in uh mental health resources or just healthcare in general, as as all these small hospitals are closing, doctors in a big area, you know, if they have a a tougher issue that they need specialists for, we don't have those in small towns. So so those are some of the things that factor in in our in our small communities.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Definitely. Yeah. Well, thank you for that rundown. I appreciate it. And I think it really helps kind of set the stage for you know what's at stake when we're talking about chronic absenteeism and truancy, especially in rural districts. So I appreciate all that. So I want to kind of get into talking a little bit more about um how you guys are addressing truancy and chronic absenteeism and maybe what some of the steps are that you guys take. So can you walk us through what happens in your district when a student hits that threshold for truancy? What's your process look like from that first notification on?

SPEAKER_01 8:25

So um really how we've attacked the whole attendance issue is that's chronic absenteeism, that's truancy, that's tardiness altogether, is overcommunication and having committees set up. Um, so we I'm a big data guy. You know, I'm I'm looking at data. At every meeting I have, there's a data component. Usually chronic absenteeism, maybe in our tier three below 80%. You know, how many students do we have there? Is it trending up? Is it trending down? So in every meeting we have, data is a component of that. I meet with my administrators weekly, we're talking about that. You know, we have a chronic absenteeism task force that meets monthly where we're tracking that. And then even at the building level, they have building attendance teams so that they're tracking, okay, whether it's a turancy thing, unexcused absences, whether they're below 10%. We say there's that red flag. We have a community health worker, we have social workers, we have counselors, we have administrators that meet even the secretaries. The secretaries know so much because they're getting the phone calls about what's going on. And so then we kind of, you know, it each in each instance is individualized, but we try to over-communicate, um, whether that's a letter, whether it's a phone call, whether it's a house visit, um, to find out what's going on. We try to give them a heads up when they're nearing truancy so that that's not a surprise because that's law, we have to follow that. Um, but but usually they're they've red flagged on our chronic absenteeism list before they get to truancy. So we've already been, you know, made contacts, identified what are those barriers, you know. Everything we've read and researched on how to combat chronic absenteeism is a is from a place of support, you know, which is different. You know, it used to be all the punitive way, you know, but uh now it's it's really from a place of support, and that's how we kind of we kind of handle that.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Great, thank you so much. Yeah, and I really again I I love the emphasis you place on the data and being able to bring that in. And it sounds like you guys have just a really great system in place for tracking this kind of stuff, which I imagine is like you you said, it is really helpful um when tackling the issue before it, you know, maybe becomes a bigger problem. So I just appreciate you setting the scene there. So we've talked a little bit about some of the reasons maybe that chronic absenteeism and truancy become um, you know, an issue. I'm curious to talk a little bit more now about the impacts of chronic absenteeism and true truancy. So beyond the academic impacts, what are some other consequences that you see for chronically absent students in your community?

SPEAKER_01 10:52

To me, it's the big one that jumps out of social connection and social skills. You know, I think with the end with COVID and with the with technology increases, kids are lacking age-appropriate social skills. So not only is it that academics, if they're not regularly attending school, building those connections with with peers, with with staff, um, and developing those social skills and that sense of belonging, you know, with our kids in a high poverty area with high-at-risk factors, maybe foster care, that relationship piece is huge. That sense of belonging, that social connection, that's where we can really build that resilience in that child to overcome, you know, maybe some of the things that are going on in their life and help them be successful. And we can't do that if they're not here. You know, um, obviously the academics is huge, but just the the social connection, that relationship, the social skills that that our kids so desperately need are really, really important. As I say, the big consequence of chronic absenteeism.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Definitely. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, kind of uh leading into the next question, which focuses on the social determinants of health, what you talked about with you know, the students needing to be there, or you can't help them. I'm curious if you want to touch a little bit on how social determinants of health affect attendance in your district, which I think you've touched a little bit on. Um, but then what those supports that you've put in place to help families overcome those barriers might look like.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Right. Well, yeah, because we we've talked a little bit about housing insecurity and access to healthcare, mental health. Those are all those social determinants that are that are impacting that child, and and and that's poverty. You know, that's that's what we're seeing all over. And um, you know, food insecurities is a big one we haven't really touched on. Um, you know, and and then that cycle of poverty and then that family dynamic where you know that they had a poor experience, they survived okay without having a diploma or or whatever the case. So really attacking those things and you know, the early intervention and tracking that data, as we talked about, is huge. Um, every instance is is different, but that chronic absenteeism is usually the red first red flag that something is going on. Mom lost their job, um, somebody fell off the wagon, you know, what whatever the case may be, that we can get in and find out what's going on and then provide those supports as we need. Transportation's a major one, you know. Um it's with poverty and and getting those. And we have a great transportation director that we we put our heads around, okay. Can we get the bus to pick them up here? Can we send a van? Does somebody have an open first hour that they can go pick this kid up? And so we again, that's that communication and supports and regular meetings and those building attendance teams and knocking down those barriers to help support those families. Um, we've added more social workers, counselors, therapists, nurses. You know, the bad part about that is we did a lot of that during the COVID when we had a little extra money, and now those monies, those grants, those support systems seem to be going away. So we're but we they're so useful. So we're scrambling every way we can to keep those positions because of how how impactful they are on our kids. The interventions, the rewards, we have our our chronic absenteeism task force, and one of the things we do is we do a lot of reading. I put in all these articles. What's everybody else doing? Let's stay on top of this, let's think outside the box, what's working? You know, and it looks a little different. What we do at our primary level is going to be different than what we do at high school, you know. But something that we really found that works is just wraparound meetings. And with data component is huge. We usually come in with three years of data of that child's attendance, meet with the parents, show the trend, show the data. Sometimes they're not even aware that their child has missed that much, and then really kind of go from at that place of support, you know, and then then we do everything we can at the school level to, you know, knock down those barriers. And we've had a lot of success with that. But that's kind of what we're doing on the school, and to attack those social determinants, figure out what it is and see how we can help.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Sure, yeah. And I, you know, something I hear you kind of mentioning through all of that is again that whole child approach, taking a look at the whole picture, you know, with those wraparound meetings and making sure that everybody's kind of included in the conversation. So I really appreciate you kind of highlighting that. You've mentioned COVID a couple of times now in your answers. And so I'd like to just kind of dive a little deeper into that. Has your approach to attendance changed since COVID? You kind of alluded to, you know, maybe having some more opportunities during that time period. And then what interventions or strategies are you finding that actually work in your rural context?

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah, great question. Yeah. I was a principal starting out during COVID and even pre-COVID and even a little bit during COVID, it was all that punitive approach. You know, we had an attendance policy and we weren't excusing anything. You had to have doctor's notes, you had to have this many, or it was unexcused. We're sick and judicial on you, we're sending the police for knock and talk, we're assigning detentions, ISSs, out-of-school suspensions, even if necessary, which doesn't make a lot of sense when you're dealing with attendance issues. But it was more of a punitive approach. And as we got in post-COVID and everybody's having a chronic absenteeism, we just did a lot of reading and research and what's the best way to kind of educate our ourselves and in building this. And it's basically that support, identify the barriers, you know, and and treat each one individualized, individualize those supports and and and really help that families. And that's kind of the approach that we took. The tracking of data, the regular meetings. I think that's, you know, with all the attendance with the academics and things, those are important. But as I said, attendance is so huge because if they're not here, we can't do our job in so many different ways. So I've really had to emphasize that to our administrators to make sure we're having regular meetings, we're tracking the data, we're having those building attendance team where we're identifying students early before they've already not after they've met Trincia, as soon as they're trending uh towards chronically absent. You know, those things are important. We do a lot of interventions, incentives, and those type of things. You know, they work better at the elementary level uh than they do at the secondary level. So it, you know, all of those types of things that you do as a district are gonna vary building to building. One that we found that works really good is we call it the NBA. It's not being absent, and we create competitions between kids that we draw out of a hat sometimes. Sometimes it's class, and they get two points if everybody's there and three points on Friday. We do it during March Madness, you know, and try to really get those attendance factors up. Uh sometimes we rig the deck and only put the chronically absent kids in the names we're drawing out so that uh at different levels. But um, you know, that's just from researching and reading and trying different things and um and the schools, you know, putting their own individualized stamp on it. Sometimes they do a wheel of attendance, you know, but really the home visits, the personal conversations, those wraparounds uh with the families, uh, where they realize that we're not here to sick the county attorney on you. We're here to help you. What do you need and how can we help? Whether it's transportation, whether it's you know, health related, whether it's food, whatever it is, um, we want we want the same thing. We want your child to be successful. And those have seemed to have the biggest impact, you know. And and as a data guy, that data impact, three years of data, showing the academics, you know, all of those things really, really help.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Sure, absolutely. And I, you know, I really appreciate the illustration you kind of made there of the way that things looked maybe before COVID and after COVID and how you guys kind of learned and you're continuing to learn with the data that you're collecting, with the research that you're reading. I really appreciated that illustration. And then I also really liked how you mentioned maybe some of those more creative ways that you're using to you know combat the absenteeism. I'm sure you know kids could get really into you know the competition aspect of that too. So that's great to hear. So, in your time as assistant superintendent, what has surprised you the most about attendancy and truancy issues facing your district?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

You know, I think when people started reading about chronic absenteeism following COVID, do you picture you know those high school kids that are cutting class or skipping, you know, because that's kind of the old thing. Our worst two grade levels for chronic absenteeism for the last four years have been kindergarten and first grade.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

So I think that that is really what surprised me and most of the people that we talk with is you know, is is where the worst problem is. And those are such important years. And then you're really not talking so much intervention with the kid, it's with the parent. You know, they're the ones trying to get the kid there, you know. So um I think that's just what surprised me most was you would think middle school and high school would be the worst. And following COVID, it's those primary age where we see the biggest uh red flags and highest numbers of chronic absenteeism, at least in parsons, that is.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Sure, that makes sense. Because I'm interested, we've talked a lot about COVID, and I'm I'm wondering if you know you've alluded a little bit to maybe some changes in attendance before or after, but can you kind of talk about, you know, did the did chronic did your chronic absenteeism and your truancy rates were they different before before COVID, during COVID and after COVID?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah. Yeah, we we pretty much doubled like like most of the national average. And ours was not good to begin with with our high-out risk factors. So, you know, obviously during COVID, when we had the quarantines, you know, it was it skyrocketed and sky skyrocketed everywhere, you know. But uh we've tracked it, you know, chronic absentee is in numbers for about the past 10 to 15 years, as as far back as we can get data. Um, and it it's you know, it's by far double as it was pre-COVID. So now we've knocked that down almost 10% um since COVID, a little bit each year, two or three, we're we're outpacing the state, is what I like to say, which high-risk factors, we're pretty proud of that. But um, yeah, we we've knocked it down about 10% uh since COVID, and we're continuing to drop that more and more.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Well, that's great to hear, you know, that you're you're seeing you know, less and less rates of it. So um on that note, then do you want to maybe share a success story where you've kind of helped turnaround a crop chronically absent student um and what made the difference in that case? You you know, and then you have a lot of lived experience in this world.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

So sure. You know, I I we got several, several really specific cases. Um, I think, you know, as I mentioned multiple times, now I'd keep beating this one, but the the wraparound has seemed to be the biggest impact. Um I think it was eye-opening to the family sometimes when you have those three years of data and how, you know, and then we individualize that with what are your barriers, whether it's getting an alarm clock, helping with transportation, getting a better plan for transportation. I think when the parents feel, you know, when the parents were going to ch to school, that's was the days of truancy and truancy officers and courts and those types of things. And I think that the parents are always a little nervous coming in, but when they find out, hey, we Really do want to help you, and what do you need? And when they become that partner, then that's where we've seen that huge success. And we've got numerous ones, mostly at the elementary level, where about third or fourth grade, we've got a couple third graders where one we're gonna reward with a big TV because I mean her her the increase, the improvement she's made is is just it's unbelievable. We we've got a couple cases that we're we're really, really proud of, and it was a result of those collaborating and and and winning over that parent from a support stance and really partnering with us. You know, it's family engagement's hard, you know, uh especially in high poverty areas. It's something you read about, you see how it's so important, but we've had those generational poverty families where they've all had just bad experiences in schools and they're really hesitant to, you know, to collaborate and partner with you to um sometimes. And so when when you do it right and you and you have that that success, it it feels really good.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah, no, that's great to hear. And I, you know, we love hearing the success stories too. And you know, I'm sure it's it's wonderful to be able to see, you know, to work with a student from you know point A to point B and to just really see that journey. So that's fantastic. Thank you so much for highlighting that.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

When they get the confidence in that too, and they know they're being successful, then you see it linked into everything. They're they're friendships in classroom, they're academics. Um, so it's really see that it kind of lifts off into multiple areas as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah, no, that's great to hear. And I'm, you know, like you said, it, you know, I imagine all of the root causes and all of the impacts that this stuff has, you know, they go hand in hand. So when you when you do solve, you know, maybe some of those issues, you can see the, you know, the impacts really improving as well. So that's great. We talked a little bit about, you know, maybe some misunderstandings when it comes to chronic absenteeism and truancy, but I'm wondering if you can kind of give me an idea of what you think that people in your community might misunderstand the most about why kids are missing school.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Probably in my community, I I think I would point to two things, mental health and technology. I think everybody's starting to realize the the impacts of screen time and technology, you know, with the the new cell phone ban in Kansas and and those things, but we're really seeing it, you know, the the kindergartners that we have right now are those COVID babies that were born during COVID that that didn't have the social interaction, you know. Um and we're really seeing behaviors that we've never seen before. And so many of them, you know, we're they're they're on the screen all the time because that's that's easy babysitting, you know. But that's uh it's an easy way to appease them. Um but you know, the impacts of of screens and technology and then and how that's affecting technology, as I mentioned before. Kids can miss school and does it really affect their grade, you know, when they can get on Google Classroom and they can submit homework from their phone or they're um they can stay on top of things, and you know, it I think the technology impacts a lot of our our attendance issues, sad to say. And then I don't think people realize the the major mental health factors in our community. And we have a a therapist in the schools that that serve almost 20% of our population, and we have more that need it. Um stigma with that that our community can't overcome. That we meet with parents all the time and um trying to get those services in there and they they just don't want it um for their child, and but that their child needs it. So I I think the mental health stigma is is still strong and and a big reason to why our kids are missing a lot of school, whether the the screen time has impacted that, social media has impacted that, but the depressed, the anxiety, the bullying, the cyberbullying that goes on with with a lot of that, though those are the major factors, and I don't think the community fully understands all that.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Sure. Yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing all of that. And you know, kind of on that note, we've talked a lot about, you know, some of the applications and the the things that you've done already to really help address these issues. But you know, I want to maybe take a bit of a broader view and ask you, this is I think one of my favorite questions. If you had unlimited resources or you could change any policy tomorrow to kind of improve attendance, you know, what would you do? You know, you've done so much already, but I think it'd just be interesting to hear, you know, if maybe there, if you had the opportunity to do that, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

To me, I would start at early, early childhood. We need more there, we need those kids in earlier, um, you know, more birth to three services for for kids and for parents. I I would probably, you know, do a big focus with early childhood, more money there, more opportunities. You know, that that factors in with that, you know, the social determinants that we talked a lot about. Childcare is a big, big factor there. You know, the parenting, how you break that cycle of poverty with and and help those parents. You know, we we've talked a lot about we have parents that just don't have the skills to handle these kids sometimes with the behavior and mental health issues. And we need to interact earlier, you know. So more birth to three services and schools with parental supports and parental classes is is in an ideal world with a lot of money. That's where I'd I'd like to start off in the in those areas.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Definitely, yeah. That makes sense, kind of that, you know, the prevention aspect of it instead of maybe so much that intervention aspect as as much. So yeah, that makes total sense. Well, awesome. Thank you so much for everything you've shared with me today. I really appreciate it. And you've just, I think, painted a really great picture of what chronic absenteeism and truancy look like, and especially in a rural district, and you know, the different ways that you guys have tried to uh reduce those rates. And it sounds like you guys are making some great progress. So that's fantastic to hear. Um and then I I did want to just make sure that I left the floor open. So, you know, if there's anything that I haven't asked you about today, or maybe something that you thought of that you really wanted to mention, um, you can feel free. Um I'm happy to, you know, listen to whatever it is that you might you might want to add.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

I I would I would really just touch on how important community health workers are in schools. I think some great work that Telehealth Rocks is doing is is getting these community health workers worked in schools. As I mentioned before, rural areas, their biggest problem is we're not large districts. We do we have limited support personnel to to make those home visits, to work with those families. And and really that's such important work. We we can't change generational poverty until we get into work. That family engagement is so vital for the success of that child. And those community health workers are such a huge part um in connecting with those families, knocking down those barriers and making those kids successful. And you know, for rural schools who really, you know, struggle with funding and and support and personnel and the services, those community health workers are such an important role into what we do and the improvements that we can make with with students and families. So that that that's the last thing I would really kind of mention that uh as we talk about all of these things.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Sure, absolutely. Yeah, and I appreciate that. And you know, we our first the first episode of our podcast for anybody listening as well, um, you know, was all about school-based community health workers and the impact that they've had. And so, you know, it's really great for us to hear about that. And of course, you know, it's it's great to hear that they're making an impact for you guys. So I appreciate you highlighting that. Really appreciate it. Thank you all so much for tuning in to this episode of Rock Talk. We want to take a few moments to give a special shout out to our partners at the Chase program who are lending us such a wonderful space to host this podcast. This podcast was funded by HERSA through the Telehealth Technology Enabled Learning Cooperative Grant, number UU7 TH54332. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And follow our social media to keep up to date on all things related to pediatric behavioral health. You can find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube at TelehealthRock. Keep listening to keep learning with us.