Are You a Bad Person?

We use Eastenders hot topics to chat about our real worlds and have a good gossip!

Each week Abi and Ava use Eastenders storylines to talk about whats going on in their own and the wider world. 

This week they’re asking; Are you a bad person just because you do bad things?

Please like, subscribe, comment if you enjoyed this episode. It really helps us grow and bring you more episodes. Find us on all socials under @Endersafters x

*doof doof*

#eastenders 

#podcast 

#britishtv 

#britishsoaps 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, I'm Ava. And I'm Abby. And you're listening to End Is Afters.

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Where we use East Enders hot topics to talk about our real world.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

And have a good gothic. Welcome to the Earth After. Ava, what's your storyline? My storyline is that sometimes people do bad things, but it doesn't make them bad people. I feel like people do that a lot in life. We make mistakes and doesn't make you a bad person. And that can be more East Enders if we try, it's very East Enders. But also some of them are bad people. Some of them are bad people. And it depends on what you do. Bad people. I know. But you know, sometimes you murder people, East Enders, and then we still love them.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

In East Enders, you can murder someone and be the nicest person you've ever met.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

I know.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Dot Brann, Dot Cotton, sorry, married me, murdered her son. Well, no, she let him die. I'm j you know, I'm on the back, like the old episodes.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

She just let him die, but that was the right thing to do, I think.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, evil, evil, evil.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Evil man. Evil man.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Even recently, like Penny doesn't know who the father of her child is. That is a fucked up thing to do. But then she did do something wrong because she slept with Harry, knowing that Gina, her friend, liked him. So that's kind of bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

That's bad move number one.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

That's not girl code.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

That is not girl code at all. That is the least girl code. You live with her as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

And Gina was really upset about about Harry at that time. Yeah. The other thing you've done wrong is you found out it could be someone else's baby, and you're letting poor old little innocent Vinny wander along like he's having a baby, the proudest moment of his little life.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

And it's probably not his baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

And she's like, Oh, I don't know who it is. No, you do know who it is because the the scan doctor, whatever it's called, told you you were further along than you thought, and you only slept with Vinny for the first time on New Year's Eve.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I know. But even then, like sometimes we do make mistakes in life, and you learn and you grow. Well, I bloody hope she grows from this because she's choosing to do this. I know.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

She's not a bad person, though, at all. No, but like people.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Do you know what I mean? Like, she's not a bad person. Like, we judge on the thing which is bad, but a lot of the time you're not like you make mistakes in the moment, and I think a lot of people do that.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Do you know what I think it is? It's not the mistake, it's how you go about it. Yeah, and she's not going about it in the right way. And people like drag it on and like especially in East Enders, they never like to tell the truth. Do you know what? These storylines really frustrate me, and it's so stupid as an East Enders watcher to get frustrated by this. I know I do, but I'm like, just tell him! I know. It actually annoys me. I'm not just fucking telling him.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

I know. That's like the theme of East Enders.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

That is literally the theme of East Enders, shouting at screen, tell him.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Then they get carried away, then it turns into another lie, then it turns into another lie, and then you get caught up in your web of lies. Web of lies.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

That's like I had to, you know, I'm I said it for the 10 minute time watching the old episodes. What were you doing? Watching the old episodes I'm watching the old episodes. When um Linda got raped by Dean and she kept it quiet for so long, that was like a different layer of frustration because it was like the poor woman suffered in silence for so long, and I was like, I knew Mick would treat her how he did treat her, and like have her back, and I was like, Oh, just say it. And it went on for months, and I found it hard to watch. Yeah, it was really hard to watch, and then sometimes you get it where it's like it's not hard to watch because you're like, Oh, save yourself. It's like you're making this worse, you're making it worse. That is what it's like in life, you make it worse.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

I know, because sometimes you can't admit it, you don't want things to fuck up, and then you make things worse and worse and worse. But telling the truth is hard sometimes, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

And but I actually think people don't do themselves a favour because they then trap themselves in the situation where if you just come clean at the beginning, you're not like trapped, then you have to tell another lie, and then you have to tell another lie, and then you have to stay with the bed you made for yourself, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas if like with Penny, she I know. I think do you know what I think the hardest part is not just the Vinny bit because like she was she's not doing Vinny dirty by having slept with someone before she even slept got to know him for the first time, it's the Gina thing, yeah, and they live together. I know, but she you just have to fess up. If she had fessed up in the first moment, the Vinny thing would have been fine because she wasn't really fucking Vinny over. If she'd been like, I didn't know, I just found out at the scan, the Gina thing would have always been hard. I know another one like that is like the redemption of Phil Mitchell, like nowadays, he's such a good man, but then when you see the old clips of him, you have to remember he used to be his m his girlfriends.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

I know, but you end up loving the character. That's kind of what psychopaths are like. They're like you love their personality, but they're evil.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

That's because like psychopaths and narcissists have a good charm, it's called like the charm offensive. But I think Phil's past the charm offensive, I think he is actually a fan. But I don't think we should think that um they all end up like that because a lot of the time they might get too tired to be beating the girls these days, but they're probably gonna stay a nasty piece of work. And we do see it occasionally with Phil, it comes out, yeah. But he used to be a nasty, nasty piece of work.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

I know.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

But now he's like a big soft cookie.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Soft cookie, isn't he? I know.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

But it's nice to see that because you do soften in your old age, you do, and it does happen with some people, but I don't think we should stick around to find out.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

I wonder how he's gonna leave EastEnders. It won't be for a while, but his day's gonna have to come.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

I reckon he's got a good 20 years in a year.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, sure for sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

It'd be like Doc Cotton.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Bet be in my lifetime he stays on it and he doesn't leave.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Of course. He loves it.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

He loves it.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

It'll be like Dot Cotton. I think East Enders will finish altogether before Maybe the end of the s the show will be him leaving.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

That would be iconic.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

What would they even do for a final East Enders episode?

SPEAKER_01 5:52

The whole Vic gets blown up. Well, that's already happened.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Yeah, there'd have to be something else.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

The whole square gets bombed.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah, World War III that's about to happen. Yeah. Happens and we wipe out Wolford. Yeah. It's the only way, really, isn't it? They can w write Trump into the into the final episode. He's another one. Yeah, oh god, he's a bad person. Just because you do bad things, you're not a bad person. He's a bad person. But as well, if I really go into my spiritual hippie mode, do we actually believe that anyone is a bad person? A bad person. Is it?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Do you think some people are bad people?

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah, I know. I I really battle with this because if I go into like my full like hippie spiritual mode, do I believe that any of us are innately bad or good, or are they the labels that are put on the things? But then I think no, some people are bad people. Because I think some people like are troubled and like you know, maybe there could be some saving it. People can only save themselves, but there could be some saving them, blah blah blah. I don't think any some people are ever redeemable, and then I think they've detached from what it is to be a human, so then I think we can call them bad because yeah, they've gone past being human. I know what you mean, but then that's dehumanising them, so it's the same vicious thing. I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

I've thought about that a lot as well, but then it's like you know, people that you see them and they have no remorse. Like, for example, watch a show about like sex traffickers, and then they interview them and they like they generally don't give a flying fuck about the what they're doing, yeah. What they're doing. Whereas, for example, the people that we work with they do a bad thing because of the situation that they're born into, but then they're not bad people. Do you know what I mean? Like, there are you can have remorse and you can learn from your mistake, but there are some people that you look in their eyes and they generally have no remorse.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Yeah, because you know, some people have to drink or take drugs to get through the guilt they have for making the mistakes of their life. Some people are just like, oh, I'm gonna do it again.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah, like some people literally don't give a f when you watch them documentaries and they're just like that's how it is.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

100%. I've actually got a book about this, it's called The Psychopath Test by John Ronson. It's a really good book, actually. I'm gonna review it on my tick on my Instagram at some point. But it's basically like you think it's gonna be like a book about psychopaths that we know are psychopaths, like I don't know, like sex traffickers or paedophiles. God, I hate even saying that. I know do you know what I mean? But it's actually not, it's about world leaders and heads of corporations and how psychopaths are amongst us. Yeah, and he talks scientifically about how people are psychopaths, basically, we have an amygdala gland, and when we feel empathy or remorse or whatever, it like it's at the front of our head, and it I'm pretty sure I'm saying that right, but it like lights up almost, and theirs is blocked, yeah, so they don't physically have a weight, so it's like it's really hard to be call people bad, but someone that has that scientifically blocked, it's not gonna it's not gonna make good decisions anyway, are they?

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Exactly. You can be a rich world lead and be one, and you can be someone that's just in your day-to-day life, and I mean I think Nick Cotton had that blocked. Blocks to the gods and Stella. Do you remember Stella?

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Yeah, well, Shirley's coming back, yeah no, bring Shirley back. I'm so glad she hasn't got that blocked. No, she's one you can make do bad things, but yeah. She's actually deep down, she's just been for a lot. She throws her bloody son as her brother. I know we love Shirley. Love Shirley, I'll bring them all back. I can't wait to see Linda and Shirley's camaraderie. Because I'm at a point in the history where this they're not getting on because she backed Dean. So I'm like, where are they?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

I love that you're re-watching them. I feel like I need to do that. When did Shirley leave last? A while ago when Tina died. Oh you up to that bit.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

No, I can't believe Tina died. I know, I know, I know. So many people I'm gonna have to witness so many people die by re-watching. I know. That's another thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Billy slept with Tina. I know. That's how I think.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Is Billy a bad person? Absolutely not. You leave my bill alone. I know. No, I know. But like, do you know what? In these East Enders of the storylines, is everyone's gonna have to cheat at some point because they need present.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, they need storylines. There's a lot of that going on at the moment. Who? Well, Zach and Vicky. Oh god, yeah. It's gonna be the tr the triangle of um Oscar, Jasmine, and the I want him with Josh so much. Joshy washy.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Dump Jasmine, get with Josh. Oh, I know. Why do I fancy Oscar so much? He's literally like 14 years younger than me. How old is he now? He's 13 years younger than me. In real life, I don't know. Yeah, I wonder what he is in real life. You've got your phone near you. His name's Pierre. Yeah. But even if he's 22, he's still too young for me. I think he's older than you think. Really? Hopefully he's 28. That's probably my boundary.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

He's 26.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

26? I could work for that! And he's playing a 19-year-old. He's so good. I'm not surprised he's older, you're right, because he's a fucking great actor.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

He is good. He's really spiced up the square in some ways. I like it when they bring someone into the family that has some substance.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Yeah. Especially a strong family like the Brannens. I don't think there's a weak link amongst Brannons when it comes to acting. Yeah. Even on the old episodes, watching Abby, she was a class actor. Her character was annoying, but as an actress, Abby, I forgot about Abby. She was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

And her character was annoying because she was such a good actor.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Do you know what I mean? She made her annoying.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah. And Penny's there. I feel like I like it when the family expands. Then there's more to like talk about. Because Penny's there. Yeah. Zach, not Zach. Max back. Max back, get your money back.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

The the br Brannins are kabooting on.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

They're on fire.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

They are on fire. Another one, Max. Is he a bad person? Because he does something says. I wouldn't go as far to say that Max is a bad person, but there's no saving Max. That's what I'm saying. Is Max a bad person because he tries, but he does do bad things? But he is he's a typical narcissist, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, he's a narcissist.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

You know, like the textbook narcissist, even the way he pursues his woman, it's all very narcissistic. Like he is a textbook narcissist. Because even when he does something wrong, he's like, Oh, I want to make it up to you, Lauren. He doesn't fully take on responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Because he's self-absorbed.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

And he does it to progress. He doesn't say he's sorry because I'm sorry, end of story. He does it to progress to benefit himself.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

We love him.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

But he is a bit, I wouldn't say he's a bad person, but he's a very naughty person.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah. But that's what I mean. What it comes down to is if you're a bad person or not, I think is as humans we see things as black and white, and nothing in life is black and white. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 12:58

100%.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Because we start from a child, we go through things, we do things, we learn from them, hopefully, or you don't. Your brain is a crazy thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Your brain is a crazy thing, and I'll be honest though, I like I think the damage that can be done to children and our brains when they're growing psychologically that shape us into who we are. Um sometimes that is so affects us so badly that it can't be reshapen. Now look, I feel that I have reshapen a lot of my past experiences and dealt with a lot. You know, you deal with your crap for the rest of your life. So I don't think it's not possible, but I do think in some cases it's not possible. Yeah. Or it's just, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

And I do think people are just bad people as well.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Yeah, if you're born with that blocked amygdaland. Blocked amygdogland.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Do you know what I mean? So that is my storyline. What's your final diff? People are bad people. Oh my gosh, yes. People are bad people. The world's run by them.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

I know. Some people are bad people.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Some people are bad people.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Oh, I know. It's the truth. Quite existential. Okay, cheers to them. Cheers to that.