Formula Features
Welcome to Formula Features 😎 The official podcast of Formula Tattoo Studio, hosted by celebrity tattoo artist Kevin Laroy and Jeff Williams.
Formula Features
Ryan Ashley gives us the REAL on fame, relationships, & questioning everything including sexuality
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We sat down with the ICON and very first female winner of Ink Master, Ryan Ashley for a real conversation about relationships, success, & life inside the tattoo industry. She opens up about past and future relationships, how to manifest your dreams, and the mindset it takes to turn passion into a successful business.
Ryan gives insight on what it’s really like being a woman in the tattoo world, breaking barriers, and building her brand.
If you're chasing big goals, building a business, or love tattoo culture, this episode is packed with gems and inspiration.
Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/wr_hiIVd6pc
All right, y'all. Welcome to our second episode here at Formula Features. Our next guest is one of the most influential tattooers of our generation. A trailblazer, an iconic figure who's truly redefined what it means to be a self-made success story in this industry. She's the first ever female winner of Inkmaster. Going on to becoming a judge of the show. She's a fireball inspiration to so many artists. And in spite of all of this, she's a humble queen. And we love that. I'd like to introduce to you all Ryan Ashley.
SPEAKER_06Oh my God. I feel like the last intro like that I've heard was Daenerys Targaryen. My gosh.
SPEAKER_02I love that. I love that. Yeah. Well, welcome.
SPEAKER_06Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. It's great. Um, I love doing stuff like this with friends and real people where you can talk about real stuff. And it's, you know, not so surface. It's important and it's deep. And it's with people that you love and you trust. And conversations so many times go so unheard by people, I think that would benefit from hearing them, you know. So I love being a part of stuff like this. So thank you for having me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Yeah. It was an honor when Kevin told me about that you agreed to it. I was just like, oh yeah, we got, we got, we gotta make this happen. Yeah. So um, yeah, very grateful for you. Uh but yeah. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So okay, so I don't know if if everybody is hip to this, but right now it's something that's going like crazy viral right now. Is the the 2016, 10-year, you know, just hoopla of like everybody just like going back to 2016 and seeing what that era was. And apparently, I thought it was just me, but apparently that era was just lit for everybody. And what I realized was that 10 years ago, 2016 was when I met you, was when we did Inkmasters season eight.
SPEAKER_06Can you believe it's been 10 years?
SPEAKER_01I literally cannot believe it's been 10 years.
SPEAKER_06It's been a decade. And a decade. We can use that word. And what's crazy about it is like it feels like only a few weeks have passed, and it feels like an entirely different lifetime at the same time.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06Because I feel like the person that I was, you know, before Inkmaster, before 2016, you know, the big year before all of that, it's the same core, you know, base model of who I am now and who I've always been, right? Um, but I think, you know, through 10 years, you grow and you evolve and you bloom so much that even though you're the same, your perspective changes and your opinions might change and so many things about you change. And what's been important for me recently is realizing that like it's okay to let go of not only that old identity, but your old belief systems a lot of the time too. You know what I mean? It's okay to say, like, you know what, I've learned a lot since then, and I feel differently about that now, and and be proud of yourself, you know what I mean, because of that, and not cling on to that identity so tightly. You know what I mean? That that you still define yourself by that person that you were 10 years ago, you know.
SPEAKER_01You know what's so crazy? Because I feel like I just exactly what you just said, I just learned it with Nick the last two years, like within the last two years.
SPEAKER_06Same.
SPEAKER_01Um, I was actually looking at uh, because I hoard photos and videos, like literally, even back then, when we were filming, like I I documented everything. And I was just going back and like looking at um, it was a photo taken. I don't know if you remember when we uh so how Inkmaster will, I don't know if it's still like this now, we'll get into that how it is now. But back then, we would everybody get flown in from wherever the hell it was filmed in Jersey, and I remember we got where everybody gets pulled up to this hotel, and you're not allowed to talk to anybody. You can't talk to anybody. Everybody is sequestered to their hotel room, and then eventually, once everybody makes it, they bring everybody down to the ballroom, and there's a bunch of tables just like this, and everybody's sitting at a round table, and you still can't talk. It's like a pin drop. It's 30 people in the room, and you can't talk to anybody. But, anyways, they bring us outside and they're like, We're gonna film you guys' intro. You guys just walk, just walk up. And I remember in this moment, I was like, I need to get to the front, I need to get to the front. I was like, I got this outfit on, I need to get to the front. And I remember I got to the front, I just felt good, like confident about myself, and I remember looking to my left and I see this statue west, like tiger face, gray hair, red outfit. I'm like, who the fuck is this? I don't know who she is, but she's gonna win. Stop. It was like, it was it was insane to me. And I just remember thinking, like, in that moment, just like how in my mind everybody was just so much better than me. Like everybody was just like, this thing was super intimidating, and I was just I didn't know how to approach the situation. I just remember feeling so confident in that moment, going to the front, to the point where it's like you're just immediately humbled. Like you start to realize where the fuck you are. Yeah. And I think it's just a testament to like like life in general. It's just like you can get in these moments where you think like you just have it all figured out, and then it'll be it'll take a split second to humble the fuck out of you. You know what I mean? And I remember from that moment through throughout our our stint on Inkmaster, just starting to get to know you and realizing it was just like what I thought you were. I was like, oh no, she's just like me. She's just as scared as I am. You know what I mean? Even though we put on the face and and you know, the comp we know when to kick the confidence in. It was just like I felt, I felt like always since knowing you was just like, oh, okay, I relate to her in a way that I feel like most people don't get the opportunity to.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. But and I feel the same way. Oh my God. But I I remember the first day of Inkmaster that the first thing I thought was, oh my god, Kelly Doty's here. Oh my god, Kelly Doty's here. Because before we even competed, I owned the Oddity shop, right? And I was such a fan of Kelly Doty. When I was going through my um apprenticeship, my mentor was going through, because I was lucky enough to be brought up all those years ago where when you started an apprenticeship, some of the first things that you're taught are who were the people that came before you that paved the way for you. And so the first thing that you're taught is respect, right? Respect for the people that not only carved the path, but the people that made it legal, the people that pushed the boundaries, the people that created these styles. And you learn the history of it. And if you can show that respect and that understanding, you can progress, right?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_06And so my mentor in my apprenticeship said to me, He's like, I want you to look at this girl and look at her work. Her name is Kelly Doty. And and he's like, and he's like, and she is killing it right now. And like this is the level you need to be at to be someone in this industry, right? And so in my mind, Kelly Doty was this, and she was, she's fascinating and amazing and brilliant. And so when I owned the Oddities parlor, um, we sold all kinds of weird shit, you know, and Kelly's so weird. So, you know, your vibe attracts your tribe, right? And so Kelly ordered something from us. And I remember her name came in and I was like, holy shit, holy shit, she ordered something from us. And I remember I sent her package out and I and I wrote her a little note before I met her, before Inkmaster, I wrote her a note and I was like, I love, I'm a fan of you. I love your work. And I sent her this really ugly, weird flea market strawberry ring that was so tacky and gross, but I knew she'd love it almost, you know? And so, you know, when I saw her on that first day, it was like, it was this like wave for me where almost like a circle was complete, and I felt like even if I was the first one eliminated, I made it because I was standing next to the person that I had looked up to for so long. And and it was it, and it was humbling for me just to be there.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06I didn't give, I didn't think I was gonna win. You know what I mean? And and and and I think it was important for me to go in with that mentality because when you go in humble like that, um, it's almost like um uh detachment and acceptance, where no matter what the outcome is, you're grateful. And if you keep that mentality, then everything life presents to you is going to be a gift.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly. Yes, yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_06And so so many moments during not only filming, but during that whole area, that whole era, you know, so many moments were a gift and I knew it. And I knew it at the time and I treated it that way, right? And so I think when you keep it, when you keep it calm and you keep it cool and you keep yourself level and grounded and you appreciate everything, you're able to keep your mind in the right place because you're not concerned with the outcome or being the best or this or that. You're concerned with being true to yourself, right? And I think that echoes through life, right? You know, exactly.
SPEAKER_01No, for sure. It was it was a time, it was I sometimes like I'll think back on that era and I'm just like, I'll just get whiplash. Because for me, it was it was one of the I I mean, going there, you obviously go there with the intention to like, oh, I'm gonna do the best I can, I'm gonna try to make it as far as I can, whatever. But it was just like the closer you got, the further you got it, it's like, oh, oh, I made it past this elimination. All right, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know if I should be here. Imposter syndrome starts to kick in, and it's just like after a while, I'm not gonna lie, like when it got down to like the last final few, I'm not gonna. It was like I feel like the producers did such a good job at like pitting everybody against each other. You know what I mean? It was times where like I couldn't stand y'all.
SPEAKER_06I mean, I remember, I remember the night. I remember the night because we all live together. So that's the shit people don't see. And I know all the contestants are paranoid. Every year they're paranoid. There's cameras in the bathroom, there's cameras, there's no fucking cameras.
SPEAKER_04There's never any fucking cameras.
SPEAKER_06All right, that's first of all, illegal. Yeah, and secondly, they don't we'd never use that shit, right? But the shit that goes on, the shit that went on in that house. I remember one night waking up in the girls' room and hearing you going arguing, you know that Kevin threw a fucking chair. Kevin threw a chair. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00Kevin threw a chair.
SPEAKER_01No, it was like just drunk. Being drunk with uh that was with Eric. With Eric was just yeah, me and Eric was just beefing, beefing in the night to the point where I'm like, I'm so drunk. I'm I might must beep with you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Bush. Oh my god. To the point where literally, I got I remember going and laying down in my bed, like I put my covers on, and he came and sat down next to my bed in the dark and was just like, yeah, some what? And I'm just in the bed, like like laying down, like poor, I must go to sleep.
SPEAKER_06Neither of you gave a shit about President Bush, but for some reason you were throwing chairs over his. I turned into Kanye all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_01Throwing chairs is crazy. But, anyways, yeah, but anyways, it was it was a time. Like, I I was looking through all those photos and was just like reimagining being there, and it was just like gave me a whole new appreciation for that experience, you know, and um it was it made me think about a lot of stuff that obviously we've all seen. We I mean I don't know everybody, but a lot of people have seen the the season season eight, which in my opinion is the best season in Inc. Master history. But no bias, you know. But what people don't know, myself included, is like when everything is done, when the confetti's coming down, the winner is Ryan Ashley. Um, I mean for me, I mean I I've heard stories about like how that night went for you, and obviously still super bittersweet. Um, if you want to touch on it, you can. But it was just like my mind automatically goes to like what the fuck happened after Inkmaster. Yeah. It's like at the time, I know that you were like when we were filming, I know you were engaged. Um and then when you won, it was just like you came to Dallas. You came to Dallas. I saw you that one last time, and it was cool. We got to connect on a on a level that we hadn't up until that point.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, we got trashed in deep Elm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, karaoke bars and the two of us. Yeah. And what it's like once the once the film was done, I got to see you for you as like a human being. And I think that was like what I wanted from you today. I was like, what? Like, we we hear about all the Ink Mask and tattoo stuff. I was like, I want to know like, yeah, where have you been since 2016?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. It's funny standing up there because you know, as you just said, as the season progresses, it becomes more intense and more real, but you also develop such a bond with your competitors because you know that it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience that no one else will ever understand except for the people in that room with you. Right. And it bonds you and it connects you forever, forever. And so I'm standing up there with Gian and with Kelly, and it's like, you know, I wish I could tell you that it was more gratifying. But at that point, I was so close to them and I love them so much that it there was a lot of survivor's guilt, to be honest, you know, because why should I have won? Because not why should I have won, but it was almost like this whole experience meant so much to me and had moved me and changed my life so much that I already won. And if winning meant something more to someone than it that it meant to me, because I was already so fucking grateful and just to be there, you know, opportunity that I wanted them to have it, you know. And so, um, but what I talked about with, you know, Deanna and Colton, and I've talked about it a little bit publicly, is um I uh I while I was on stage tattooing because we did a live tattoo for seven hours, um, my fucking dog died while I was on stage, right? And I knew it while I was on stage because at all the all the commercial breaks at that time the finales were live. There's thousands of people in these, you know, audience. And um, my you know, boyfriend at the time wasn't there. And when he when I knew he wasn't there, I knew something was wrong.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06So right when the cameras cut, the confetti's still coming down and everything, and and I'm yelling at V, you know, one of the producers, I'm like, get my boyfriend on the phone, get him on the phone. So I'm standing on the stage and they're like, okay, we're gonna take all the photos. And I get my boyfriend on the line and he's sobbing and he's like, Casper's dead. And it was this I realize now in hindsight, and it took me years, it took me years to figure out why life could do that to me. It was the highest and the lowest moment of my entire life because this dog meant everything to me, right? And I realize now that it's because I could have won that night and gone out and gone partying and celebrated and be like, look at me, you know. And instead, life humbled my ass down. It brought me back home to my family, and it made me realize there's no amount of money, there's no amount of success, there's no amount of glory, there's no amount of fame, anything that will ever mean more than the people and the things that you care about. It's love and it's family and it's humility. And in that moment, I realized the irony was to remind me that no matter what happens, keep your fucking head straight.
SPEAKER_05Right?
SPEAKER_06These are the things that are important and these are the things that aren't. Yeah, you know, yeah, and it took me a long time to let that go. You know, I I um I told you before that I it was like six months before I even sent the paperwork in for the money or anything because it felt like blood money. Like I felt like spiritually, like I took his soul somehow, you know.
SPEAKER_00I like an exchange as an exchange.
SPEAKER_06And I felt I I because there was nothing, there's no amount of anything I would ever give to, you know, I would watch one of my dog back, you know. And um, but I realized now that it's of all the lessons that little dog taught me in my life, his exit was the greatest lesson of all. And it's don't lose yourself, don't lose what's important to you, don't lose what matters, you know. And so since then, um I've tried to keep that as my main perspective, right? Um after Inkmaster, I took advantage of everything. I did all the conventions. I traveled eight or nine months out of the year for years afterwards. And I think what I was chasing because of my imposter syndrome and my inferiority complex, you know, because I felt like these people are wrong. This can't be right, it can't be me. I was doing convention after convention after convention, and I was competing and competing and competing. And not to not to feel like I'm the best, but I almost needed to be humbled. I needed to be beat almost. But I also didn't want anyone to be like, oh, she won because her tits are out, or she won because she's hot, or she's fucking Dave Navarro. I'm not fucking Dave Navarro. That didn't happen. It, you know, it's not why. Like, fuck you. Like, and so at all the conventions, I was the first one to show up. I was the last one to leave, and I busted my fucking ass. And I wasn't trying to prove anything to anyone, I was trying to prove it to myself that I was worthy. Yeah, you know what I mean? That I was the person that all these other people wanted me to be, you know. Um, but in that I traveled the world. I met some of the most important, kind, amazing, influential people people, other tattooers. Um, and and because of that and that opportunity, I now have friends all over the world that that get me and they see me for the right reasons, not as a TV tattooer. I hate that term, but yeah, not as that. It's not a show. I really am dedicated and I care about this industry, and I want to bust my ass next to you. I want to show up before you and and have extra supplies if you need. I I wanna, yeah, I wanna give the industry the respect that it's always deserved.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_06You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02For someone to have that drive of, you know, so I have a sports background to where, you know, you're the first to show up and last one to leave. That not many people have that mentality. Is that something that you always had, or is that just, or is that someone that's something you can obtain, or is that just in you, or it's not?
SPEAKER_06So I've been asking myself that question the last few years because I think the more you learn about yourself, the more you get to know yourself, the more you dive into why you tick the way you tick, why you are the way that you are, right? And um I think the worthiness thing has always been a big factor to me. And I've always been trying to prove to myself that I've been worthy, you know, because where I came from, you know, my name is Ryan Ryan as a girl, Ryan Mullarkey from the trailer park, right? Very appealing. Yeah. And I never felt like I was good enough. You know, I watched my mom bust her ass, doing a my mom. Can I take a second to tell you guys? My mom had two girls by herself, a single mom of two girls. My mom worked at McDonald's for 17 years, and then as a single mom with two girls, put herself through college, night school, made the dean's list, graduated top of her class, and did it all while juggling everything. And she did it to give us a better life. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And so my entire life growing up, my mom used to say to me, like, Ryan, you will not make the same mistakes that I made. You won't. You will not stay in the small town forever. You won't. She's like, when you turn 18, you're fucking out of here. And if you think you're staying here, you're paying me rent. And if you're paying rent, I wouldn't be paying your mom rent. What do you do? And so in my mind, uh settling was never an option because it was ingrained in my subconscious that there's something bigger and better out there for me. Right. And it was never chasing money. It was never chasing, I mean, I never thought I would be on television. That was not a, you know, I I didn't like, you know, dream of being a news anchor or, you know, or anything. That wasn't, you know. Um, I think what I've been chasing is how far the rabbit hole goes, you know. And now that I've come to peace with who I am in the industry and all of these things, now it's time I get to turn inward and actually get to know myself.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_06My actual self and and all of those things, you know. So I've been asking myself that same thing too. Like, why do I do the shit that I do? Because what I found in the last few years is that this idea of what I should do and what other people are doing and what people expect me to do has led me to a lot of not failure, but um lessons and disappointment in myself that even though Casper taught me the lesson, I got that shit twisted for a second. Right. Like I put my studio and my career and blah, blah, blah, above not only the people that I love and the things that made me happy, I put it over myself. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm struggling with that balance now of um where do you lie? Where do you where does Ryan lie on the list of priorities as opposed to like what everyone wants from me or needs from me? Because I want to nurture and I want to help and I want to provide and I wanna the same way that people like reached down to me and pulled me up, I want to pull people up. Right. Yeah, but you have to put your own oxygen mask on first. And the last few years have kicked my fucking ass.
SPEAKER_01You know. Yes. And that you know, like quite literally, this is another thing. It's funny because I've I've known you for a decade, and I feel like every time I talk to you, like I start to obviously learn more, but also to realize how fucking parallel our lives are without even knowing it. Yeah. And it makes me think about like even even when you're on Inkmaster, and and I and yeah, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna back up a little bit. Right? You went Inkmaster and I remember in that in that era you were engaged you were in a full relationship like you said he was he was gone you knowing him not being gone like was an alarm in your head at the same time when you finish something like Inkmaster or whatever TV show whatever when you step into this new version of yourself a lot of times the people around and I'm not saying this is the case I don't I don't know but a lot of times the people around you sometimes either they change or you the change in you kind of shifts in your relationship and then you have to realize or you have to kind of think if you're if you're now living for your relationship in this person or am I am I gonna like start living for myself and what I want like explain to me because because again I know there was a point where you were engaged and then and then somehow it flipped and it was like it was somebody else and I know it was like an era where you were traveling a lot you were doing all the things that was just like that that are you asking me why me and balls broke up is that what you're getting to why did you just say I was literally just about to say that I was like asked about the engagement yeah I'm glad you said it I'm glad you said it uh what the fuck happened if you and Josh Ball it was like just like when sorry well first of all I actually just saw balls recently he's he's one of the people in my life that believed in me before I did and there's not a single feeling I could ever have for him other than gratitude and love and respect and all of those things.
SPEAKER_06But the the truth the truth is is I I he was such an important person to me and I think at that time I realized that like I loved him so much that I knew I was never going to be able to love him the way he did deserved to be loved back.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06And I think that's the thing as I'm maturing I'm realizing about relationships is there's nothing that's black and white everything is a shade of gray and sometimes the moves that you make aren't forward or backward they're you know horizontal almost right and just because I'm taking this step doesn't mean I don't care about you, value you see you. You know what I mean? And I don't think anything has such a people cling on to these terms so tightly what are you? What's the label? What are you calling yourselves? What are you well if you're breaking up then you must not you know somebody up right yeah and and and um balls and I went through I mean think about what think about like when I think about what we were able to do together right like um we opened the Oddities parlor we opened a second oddities parlor we all of our interests were the same we developed I am who I am today partially because of the influence he had on me and I realize now that life and who you are as a person is a sculpture and every person that influences you changes you affects you it's like you they're taking a chisel and chiseling out one little chunk out of the sculpture that eventually becomes you right and so um you know to this day balls and I are so cool. We DM each other uh memes about hot dogs a couple times a week you know what I mean and even if it's just that um I only have love and respect for him you know but I I'm realizing too that um multiple things can be true at the same time right like I knew when I realized that balls wasn't he was one of the most important people still in in my life but but I realized he wasn't the one for me and I couldn't go on in a relationship knowing that that's not fair because because I think people are afraid to tell the truth and then they end up cheating.
SPEAKER_02Fuck cheating yeah so did you have these feelings before you won or was it more so after because I I'm thinking like did the did the feelings of that or like guilt come in that you couldn't give him the love that he wanted because now that you won so the industry demanded so much of you.
SPEAKER_06So something I've realized that I don't think I've actually ever said was like balls and I were together for a really long time and like five years five years you know six years maybe right and we were each other's family we both had you know not bro balls has had a hard life and mine my life wasn't hard but it wasn't easy either right we both had to prove and struggle and prove and struggle and chasing things and and then we started chasing those things together right um and so the night before I left for Inkmaster the night before I left to go compete we were standing on the porch and Balls was like will you marry me the night before and in my head and in my head I was thinking motherfucker we've been together for like five years you're gonna wait until the night before I leave and it didn't feel good. It felt like he was taking something from me because I couldn't focus on the excitement and the joy of something that I got to do that I earned from myself I had to now balance trying like being happy about getting engaged and being happy about this thing. Why couldn't I just have this moment you're in a in it and it and I did I held resentment from that moment. Yeah does that make sense like a last though like right and he said to me he's like what you think I'm gonna let you go compete without a ring on your finger and I was like motherfucker well maybe a different perspective from from just the men's mindset is that I think since y'all had been together so long maybe he knew that you were about to do amazing things.
SPEAKER_02He he probably thought you were gonna win he's like when she wins all eyes are going to be on her I got to lock her down like I can't but I have to but I have to give balls credit because there were so many years he was the only one that believed in me.
SPEAKER_06He bought me my first iPad and I said I don't want that and he's like this is the future you you need to use this because you're gonna be amazing you know what I mean yeah and to this day um I mean we still continue to support one another and and everything and all of that and I realize now there doesn't have to be bad blood or feelings that you're not you know we're like programs or or society makes us think that you're supposed to feel negatively about someone when your relationship ends. And that's just not true. Yeah I've never had a negative thought about that person. I know he's not the one for me you know um but I'm not gonna that's not gonna make me think anything negative about him. That's life. And life is complicated and it doesn't need a a label or a definition or a reasoned textbook. You know what I mean? I think it's about carving your own path and being mature enough and open enough and and loving enough to understand that it can be true that we're not meant for one another and be true that we care about one another and understand reality and not let feelings of what should be or and we should be angry. We should be that's just not true.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah but but the gratitude comes into where in a way y'all being together so long he helped you become who you were yeah and 100% I love that but even now when I think about him and I you know talk about him and everything the way I feel about him is like yo that was my fucking homie.
SPEAKER_06That was my ride or die. I don't think about him like oh my boyfriend. Yeah yeah yeah he wasn't my boyfriend he was my he was my family you know and and um and I never want to get that shit twisted.
SPEAKER_01Yeah you know what I mean doesn't matter what you call someone your boyfriend your fiance whatever it's the way you feel about each other and that's between just the two of you right you know what I mean um but yeah I yeah okay so I'm and I'm I'm I promise this medicine my madness because these are all things I think about errors of Ryan I this this is what I've been consumed with for the last since you agreed to doing it is just like thinking about the errors of Ryan because yeah when I saw you on on Inkmaster it was like this person who I got to know like we lived together you know what I mean for for months um that person I feel like evolved I mean it wasn't too long after you won but I remember obviously like I went on did my thing you went on you know did your thing but there was I'll never forget there was a very definitive moment where I was like this bitch is a rock star now like I was like she came back she had the titties she she's wear she's wearing Arlo now Arlo with the with the G string uh fucking I was like they're they're opening it big ass shop up they bought a church like I'm like it was like they had you guys got the spinoff ink I'm sorry Inkmaster uh Ink Angels it was like Angels was wild angels was was crazy you guys are touring around the fucking country behind you guys like months at a time it was like that era to me I feel like that's when you like turned it the fuck up like it was like you did what I feel like any Inkmaster should do is like put your foot on their fucking necks. Exactly and I feel like it was so unapologetic and this one is why I bring up balls was because I feel like I've only known you to date three people as long as I've known you balls and then going into Arlo you know what I mean um and I didn't know what that transition was like but I just remember very very vividly when I like was on Instagram was like damn like she's a fucking rock star.
SPEAKER_06So here's what I realized and so many people say like you know you can't find yourself in relationships. You have to know who you are and date around and blah blah and all that and I found myself like I'm not interested in dating I'm not interested in sleeping around I've actually never had a one night stand ever right because I don't have fucking time because I don't have time and I love that and I wish honestly I look back honestly I look back and I'm like and I'm like did I miss out on a hoe era did I miss out on my hoe era I never had it I I skipped that chapter right and and I've been questioning this recently too you know um uh just because you know Arlo and I that whole chapter has concluded obviously we have a the most beautiful child together and like you know no matter what happened between that look at what we look at who we made we created this cool human he's upstairs playing PlayStation right now um but what I realized because I've been thinking about this a lot you know a lot is um I think a lot of the time you learn so much about yourself because every other person is a mirror right yeah and if someone and and I and I've you know most of my friends have dated and this and that and and and I and I've always watched them evolve and develop because when someone confronts you with themselves you learn more about how who you are because you either agree or disagree right for me it's always been like I've always internally deep down I've always known who I am I've always known not in like a yeah this is who I am but I've always known what's important to me and I've always known what direction that I'm looking in and I don't have time for side quests. So it's like my train's headed in this direction and this is someone who's going in this direction too you want to you want to roll with me you want to ride with me because I want to make memories I want to get deep I want to I want to see how far down this rabbit hole goes I don't want to skip around on the surface. You know what I mean? And so for me I've always been in these long monogamous relationships and that's been important to me not because I need a partner or I need a man but it's because I understand how incredible this life is and I want to share important things with someone to continue on like a series right like I don't want to tune into a couple episodes here and there and not know what the fucking story is. I want to binge something with someone and create something impactful and grow together. Exactly right and and um and so I think even you know like meeting Arlo it was like when I well I don't on a won't get into that but Arlo was another one where where I was like when I met Arlo I was like you are the first person that has challenged me you're the first person that's that's questioned like oh you think you're that are you and I've been like wow and I was like wow really he can party as hard as I can he's the first person I met that could party hard because I was partying at that time right I'm a mommy now but as but during those years you know and he challenged me because he made me confident to know myself and then still push those boundaries does that make sense you know absolutely um and so I think relationships have made me confront the deepest parts within myself I I saw a quote the other day that was like um the potential for you to grow is directly correlated to the amount of truth you can hear about yourself and the amount of truth you can accept about yourself and not break. Right. And Arla pushed me and and and through it all I'm not you know bitter or angry I would take nothing back. I have no regrets. Yeah none because every single thing we went through um all that crazy heavy all that shit it it pushed me to evolve and I've been telling people it's almost like um you know you're in the Boy Scouts and you want to win a you want a Boy Scout badge. You don't just go in a bin and pick that shit out you have to work for it.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06So what I've been working for right these hard lessons these hardships what you what you do is you come out of those with um an evolution and an understanding and empathy for everyone that's gone through that shit. And I don't think people realize the reason people disagree, the reason that people argue the reason people don't see eye to eye is because you have different experiences totally different experiences. And so um I don't think I would be who I am today if if you know my whole relationship with Arlo didn't force me to truly have to dive deep and figure out wait a minute wait a minute so who who the fuck actually am I? You know what I mean and I'll forever be grateful for that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah right you know you know what I mean that's beautiful um I know I man I I love just how deep you are I wish Kevin was more like this oh my god uh I love Kevin so much I've only had deep interactions with Kevin he is bullshit um but I love that so much so we we have talked about the past you know um just in big in becoming so now where where are you now mentally uh you know I know you're you're balancing being a mother um and then your goals and everything so where where are you now what is not necessarily the next move but where are you mentally through this journey?
SPEAKER_06Yeah because you shaved your head and everything what like where we where we at so so shaving the head was a big one and I am so fucking sick and tired I'm gonna just go ahead and say it's flat out say this I am so fucking sick and tired of everyone from my pedicure lady to my uncles to people I meet on the street to saying oh I wish you didn't cut your hair and I'm like bitch if you knew me if you cared about me if you read between the lines it was first of all never my hair it was never my hair right and secondly I think that to truly get to know yourself really know yourself you have to let it all go sometimes right I was sad I was depressed I was unhealthy I was putting more and more extensions in my hair to uphold this image that I felt like I had to uphold and it wasn't making me happy. Every time I took my extensions out I look like fucking golem in the mirror it was so depressing and I was over it and I was over my friends being like oh it's not so bad. It was bad and it made me feel like shit you know what I mean and so shaving my head was this really humbling move I made because it was forced it forced me to look in the mirror and learn how to love myself in in in a way that I feared the most my biggest insecurity was my hair. And when you take that away you no longer have that you're focused to look on all of you're focused you're forced to look at all of the other areas of yourself right and so um I also was reading about how um in a lot of like native cultures hair is so important because every piece of hair is like a tiny little fiber optic and it picks up on energy. You can feel other people's energy they even say like you know when you have your hair down and big and flowing you're receptive because all of your antennas are open to giving and receiving energy right and so for me cutting that hair off made me less receptive and it made me more internal. I was no longer sharing myself I was no longer picking up on everyone else and concerning myself with that more than myself. I was focused on me and not like me in the mirror curling my hair for an hour and a half every day. I was focused on actual me soul me not the me like the image of you know the monster high doll that you know what I mean everyone wanted me to be and not saying that wasn't me that was me but when that part of me took over and and became such an identifying characteristic I don't want to be known for my hair I want to be known for my soul for my choices for my influence for my voice. And if you love me you love me now and if you don't then you never love me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah unfollow you know like when I saw you I think the first time I saw you in person with your with your shaved head I feel like that was the first time I actually like saw you like I know you from just same talking to you know same same though but I saw you I was like oh wow and now let me just and I don't mean like I don't even know how I'm trying to explain this but it's just like you see the confidence you see just like oh shit because yeah like like I said the first time I saw you I'm like oh who is this person you know what I mean but it was just like you take all I'm it's like oh no I'm getting into everything everything else yeah you know what I mean I remember the first few texts I sent after I shaved my head you know to my closest friends I remember one of the things I said was I feel like my insides finally match my outsides where like I'm done with the facade I'm done with masking it's exhausting you know what I mean I'm I'm done with all of that and um since then I can't tell you how much time I've had now to focus on more important things like I'm a mommy now so instead of curling my hair for an hour and a half in the morning I can color with my kid and be present and use that time for something that's like I'm not gonna be on my deathbed you know years from now and be like oh how good was my hair you know what I mean and if I were doing that I would be a shitty person.
SPEAKER_06I missed it I missed the point of it I missed the point of it all you know think master mad at you for cutting it because you were you're a judge at this point. I was so terrified of what Paramount would think of what Andrea would think of what I have never felt more supported from every angle. Because they don't play by big changes they don't play by big changes but I think I've been with Inkmaster and andrea and with Paramount for long enough that they they know me. They know me and and I do I know that you know Inkmaster is a it's a television show and all of that but but the core of it now that I've been in it for long enough it is a family and there's so much heart and soul and dedication that goes into that production. People have been together on that show for 10 years more than that and they care about each other and they care about what they're creating right um and so I got support from every single angle more support than I thought that I would receive and I've honestly never felt more empowered um and it made me realize that who was I afraid of was I what was I afraid they were going to think differently of me but that's me projecting that yeah you know what I mean yeah
SPEAKER_01So as you know, um, we opened Formula just like three months ago. This is his second, his second shot. This is my first. Um and it has been a journey. It's only been three months, and it's been a fucking journey. How has it been for you owning Elysium?
SPEAKER_06So it's been extremely bittersweet. And I've come to this consensus recently, too. First of all, nothing lasts forever. Even you know, you go to visit your hometown and you feel weird because everything has changed and you realize it wasn't the place that you loved, it was the moment that you loved.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And so Elysium has brought me some of my most pivotal, some of my most impactful moments, right? And it didn't have anything to do with owning the shop, it had everything to do with the people that were within the walls.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_06And when the responsibility of owning a shop became the priority, I realized that I was doing it to keep the family together. And my own family was suffering, if that makes sense. I think that um just like Studio 54 and all these amazing moments, they're moments that happen, right? And you have to do your best to be present and realize the good days when you're in them. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01Oh, it makes all the sense.
SPEAKER_06What I've also realized is I am not a good business owner. I'm not good at being a boss.
SPEAKER_01Why do you in what way?
SPEAKER_06Because I want everyone to be happy and I want everyone to have a good life. And I default to putting that above what actually makes me happy. You know what I'm saying? And I've always felt like I have so much to give and so much to offer and so much to contribute. It's too much for me. I want to share it with people, right? And in owning the shop and running the shop, I put all of that above my knees and what I actually needed. You know what I mean? And so now um I've been guesting at a few different shops. I've been traveling a lot, I've been working in Vegas and in LA. And um I'm seeing people do shops really fucking well. And I'm realizing that not everyone is cut out for everything, right? And I think that there's something bigger and better for me. I see it, it's just not fully rendered yet, right? But I know that for me at least, it's not owning a shop.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_06I think what I what I loved about owning a shop for me was providing a space where people can truly be themselves and connect with one another. Because in Colorado, I found my I found my family.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_06I found my group. I I I've never been closer to a group of people than I have been to the artists that work at Elysium, where not only do you vibe together, you support one another, you influence one another, you you root each other on, you cheer for each other, right? And it became this safe place for everyone to come and just be and and share. And and it was owning Elysium has been incredible. But I'm ready for the next thing. Does that make sense? Yeah. And God bless you, and good luck to you. I hope you're better at it than I was. You know what I mean? And it's not that I think I would have been a lot better of a business owner before. And I'm not saying parents can't do shit. Parents can do anything, but for me, the balance has been hard because it's been uh, you know, I was a shop owner and a full-time tattoo and on television and a mommy, and that's the order it came in, and that's my regret. Do you understand?
SPEAKER_00Jesus, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And in reality, now I understand I'm a mommy. That is the most important job in the entire world. Moms don't get enough credit. And I don't want to stand on a soap, you know, and preach what women have been preaching for fucking thousands of years, but it's true. You you are creating the foundational memories, you're creating a personality and you're growing it. You have to be your best self for them, right? And owning Elysium did not bring out the best in me. And I feel like all of the incredible moments I had with those artists. Because when I think about Elysium, I think about the artists. I think about my family, right? Yeah, all of those incredible moments will never ever again be touched or even close to be touched in my life. We were the studio 54. We fucking hit it. We hit it, babe. We got it. Yeah, but now I'm gonna be mommy because I feel like I missed out on on a lot of that, to be honest. That's my big regret.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, I could absolutely see that. Just like I said, it's been three months, and we actually just had our first shop meeting just uh was it yesterday? Yeah. Um, and like sitting in a circle with, and it's we got a big family, and it's and it's crazy because we've only been around each other for the last 90 days, and for me, I can totally say we're just like for y'all who don't know, they're sitting right here behind the scenes. But it made me realize it was just like it's only been 90 days, and in all seriousness, it's just like it seems like it's been so much longer. And and and like you said, I love the fact that we're all new to each other, but everybody's open to each other, we're all learning from each other.
SPEAKER_06But I'm gonna tell you something, and I'm gonna tell you in front of your whole crew too. Um, everyone loves each other and appreciates each other. That's mutual. The love you share is real, and you all feel it, and that's real, and that's what you take with you. The only person that's gonna love your business like you love your business is you. Yeah, and unless you're a part of it, it's never gonna be a part of you in the same way that it is for everybody else, right? And not in a way, no, not in any offensive way, because all of those incredible moments you share together, that's your shared reality. That's the bond that's gonna connect you forever, and that's what's important, right? But what you're doing on your end is a type of love and dedication and devotion that no one else could ever understand. You know what I mean? And don't make the mistake of expecting people to love your baby like you love your baby. That's your baby.
SPEAKER_02Right. And and leader and just being an owner in leadership is tough because just like you said, no one's gonna love our baby like we love it. But in being a leader, you have to make decisions for the sake of the whole shop and the team that not a lot of people are gonna understand. No one's gonna understand, and you have to stand on those decisions and be confident with it, even if that makes you look a certain way to the group. So that, and I have kids as well. So having to juggle all that, oh yes, I understand the weight. I I know it's up.
SPEAKER_06And and you have to remember too, it's like um there, in my opinion, this is just my opinion, there has to be some sort of, and this is the mistake that I made. I had no boundaries and there was no division. Because if we work together, we work together. You're not working for me, we're working together, right? Right? I just so happen to be the one in this position, and then slowly I started realizing, well, I want to be in that position.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06Because I don't want to be the boss lady, I don't want to come down on my friends, I don't want to have to tell someone that they were late or that their tattoo sucked, or I don't want to do it, I don't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. That's fair. I think that's it's not for me. I think that's part of being like it's tough, but you have to be in order to get a certain level of productivity and have the team staying on track. Being a villain is part of being an owner sometimes.
SPEAKER_06And you have to remember too, everyone is on the train together. Y'all are all on the train together. You're learning together, progressing together. But as an artist, you're focused on doing the best art you can do. As a business owner, you're focused on your business. Your artists aren't concerned with, and this is just me saying, your artists aren't concerned with the business aspect of the business. Do they love the shop? Yes. Are they loyal? Yes. Are they devoted? Yes. But when it comes down to a sewer pipe breaking and you have to wake up at four o'clock in the morning and be the one there canceling your appointment to deal with it, it sucks. And the same way you resent your parents for having to do the hard shit, you resent your parents sometimes, right? And then you become a parent and you realize the process and you realize why you had to do the shit you had to do.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06Right. And so um, I think when you own a shop, you understand the weight of it. It's not coming to work in a beautiful environment and all of that all the time. There's a lot of dirty, gritty, hard stuff that you have to deal with. And unfortunately, you're gonna deal with it alone, right? Exactly, even with support.
SPEAKER_01And I was gonna say, so for me, a major, major part of owning this shop has been my partnership with Jeff, right? Like I I always have a strong opinion about everything, but he's always come and kind of given clarity about things that I thought I felt strongly about, but it just comes from lack of knowledge, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06With you, because it was you and Arlo that Well, Arlo had Elysium started before I got there. Oh, but it was in a different building, it was a different, it was, it was uh, you know how Pokemon have evolutions. It was it was a really amazing thing he had started. The church was another animal. Gotcha. And the problem with me and Arlo is it's not that we couldn't tackle it, it's that we were kicking life's ass so hard we felt like we could tackle all of it. And get pregnant during COVID and get married because I was pregnant and terrified, and own a shop and be good at it. Yeah, anyone can own a shop and be good at it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And and you can't, as business owners, my advice, because I did so good. My advice is don't ever take it personally if artists that you love eventually leave to branch out and fulfill their dream because theirs might be the same as yours. Don't be offended. Yeah, everyone wants the best for each other, obviously, but you want the best for yourself as well, right? Not in a selfish way. We all have the same dream. We're all artists. Who doesn't eventually want to own their own studio? Right. And you can't take that shit personally, you have to detach and want the best for them as well.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? I always see it like a badge of honor. Like, I'm not gonna lie, every time an artist does leave, it it there's a little sting to it. It doesn't, it doesn't feel like it, it doesn't feel the best, but I mean, I feel like that's just it's natural, but I always have to remember it's like I've had artists who have left and now they have their own studio, and I'm like, and they blew up most of their most viral stuff happened at my shop, my first shop, and I'm like, wow, like in a way, I helped catapult them to their next level, and it's like, and that kind of changes their kids' bloodline and their kids' kids' bloodline, so it feels great, exactly.
SPEAKER_06And and that's the feeling you have to have instead of the sting or any of that. If that happens, you have instead of saying, like, wow, I was a part of you have to say, I got to be a part of their evolution, and and you and not that you have to be happy for them, but when you come to peace with everything and you understand the circle and the cycle, you will be happy for them because you should want the best for everyone. Exactly. Business owners that own businesses to make money for quick grabs, to hold people like hostages. That's not the right reason to own a business.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06I promise you. The best part about a tattoo shop is the energy, the vibe, the artists, the love that's being put in, the dedication that's being put in. Appreciate that. And you have to, you have to always wish everybody the best. And don't take, don't, you don't take that shit to heart. You know what I mean? You can't. You can't.
SPEAKER_01And I'll say for me, because I I never wanted to shop for a for a very long time. Just for like the last few years, was that ever even a thought in my head? But I think for me, um, for as long as I've tattooed, things start to change. And for me, it was like you want to equip the next generation of tattooers by example, you know what I mean? In the way that I feel like the people who came before me equipped me, you know, in this moment. You know, so for me, I try like you said, I try to take ego out of it, knowing that when you hire someone, like you said, nothing lasts forever. When you hire someone, you have to know that at some point it's it's gonna it's gonna end. You have to know. And so it's just like I think um just preparing yourself for that, knowing that's always gonna be the the the end game. Just knowing that that for me, the satisfaction of knowing that I my goal is always to make sure that you leave better than you came.
SPEAKER_06You should always leave people better than you found them, always. And something you have to remember too is artists coming into your shop are inspired by you, and that's why they want to come work for you, right? Or or the energy or the crew or whatever. And and they're inspired by you as an artist, you as a business owner. But the story doesn't end there, right? The story continues. So you have to allow yourself to be inspirational when that moment comes when they do leave. How do you handle that? You should handle it with grace, you should handle it with support, with compassion, with understanding, because you know, it doesn't just end when someone comes. There's a whole nother chapter, the whole other book after that. You know what I mean? So handle yourself with with grace, always be grateful, always, yeah, always, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02And with you know, y'all saying nothing lasts forever. I've experienced this so many, you know, we've we've almost been open for three years now. And what it has taught me is that when an artist had left in the first two years, when things were good and we had these most amazing memories, we would be traveling to Colorado together, uh doing events. It's now made me be a lot more present in the moment of being like, I'm enjoying this so much. I I appreciate your time, I value this space. It's not gonna always be here. You're gonna have to fly and uh spread your wings and go off. But this moment right here, I cherish it so much. I'm not taking it for granted. So yeah, it's it's man, it's tough. Ownership is is a whole nother beast, but to even be given this opportunity is a blessing in itself.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. I think too, like the and maybe this is just well, let's see if I'm talking shit or not. Who agrees with me? But successful businesses, right? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to have a collective? Are you trying to have an experience or are you trying to have a business? Because if you're trying to have a business, the point of a business is business, it's to make money, it's to get people through the door. I was a bad business owner because that was never important to me.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_06And what you know what I mean? And and so you have to understand as a business owner what your prerogative is. What is your intention? Yeah, right. Because our intention as business owners at Elysium was to keep the most incredible group of people we've ever found together. And because of that, a lot of aspects of the business failed because we weren't concerned with making money. But then a business can't be a business, right? And so everyone has to mutually understand that at the same time, right? The problem Arlo and I had was basically we just wanted to make enough money so that we could keep it floating and so everyone could be together, right? And then when shit hit the fan and our$50,000 floor remodel turned into a$350,000 renovation, who's paying for that? It's me.
SPEAKER_05Exactly.
SPEAKER_06And it's Arlo. We're not making our artists pay for that, obviously, right? And and then we kicked ourselves in the ass because we're like, oh, that's why you charge more money because when those things happen, it's coming out of your pocket, and that's not fair to you either. Yeah. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02And I I I completely agree. And I have so at both shops, like other our formula is new, but at Skylar, I have so many close relationships with our artists, and I've had to tell them countless times, like, it's tough having to make a business decision because I know in a way with how close we are, they might take it personal, but I'm like, I've had to tell them, I'm like, look, you have to separate business and friendship, and our friendship, I wish it paid the bills, but it doesn't pay this 2.7 annual increase on rent.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_01So okay, so this segment, we're doing segments now. Oh. So this segment, you know, watching certain things and hearing podcasts, and honestly, even me being on podcasts, I'm like, y'all don't ask me the the real questions. Like, give me some some like fun questions. So we call this segment cut the shit.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_01So cut the shit. So there's a just a couple questions that we were like, just things that popped up that have nothing to do with like obviously all the personal stuff we talked about, but just cool questions I think people would be interested in knowing. I know I am.
SPEAKER_06Um you've got the sugar, now you want the spice. Yeah. All right, all right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. It's gonna get a little spicy. So um, my first thing I want to know. So you had posted on your story not too long ago, you said men make money so they can get closer to women. Absolutely. And women make money so they can get further away from men.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. Did you know that women couldn't get a mortgage or a credit card until the 1970s?
SPEAKER_02Oh my God.
SPEAKER_06So, what other option did they have? So, whenever I hear you should have left them, well, where the fuck were you gonna go with five kids? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and so I think what's happening, oh, I can't wait for this topic. All right, here we go. I think what's I think what's happening.
SPEAKER_04I knew it.
SPEAKER_06So I think what's happening now is, you know, and I saw a video on Instagram of this woman saying that, like, you know, girls are raised from birth to be good, good daughters, good sisters, eventually good partners, good wives, good mothers, all of that shit. But it's all good for other people. Whereas, and I'm not talking about everyone, I'm talking about the main bulk of societal expectations on males and females, right? Um, men are raised to be good men, like good for themselves, right? Do the best that you can, you know what I mean, to be able to provide, blah, blah. And I feel like the world is is changing now, right? And I feel like finally um men are being raised to understand that being a good partner means being empathetic, right? Being actually a good partner. And I think this balance is shifting. But what I think men aren't realizing is that um as those roles change, they're being raised to be understanding, they're being raised to um know that a lot of shit is equal and 50-50 and all of that, but they aren't being raised to understand how to be with a strong woman, right? And so when I posted that, I was like, it's fucking true. Because every conversation I've ever, not every conversation I've ever had, but it's a big conversation, whereas like men have always had a limitless amount of opportunities to be the best they could possibly be, and women haven't. And I've been going on this for the first time in my life, I can finally say I'm beginning to scrape the surface of understanding what feminism actually is. And I've always had a hard time with that term. And I've because I've been deemed by others as a representation of women, as a representation of female strength and thus a representation of feminism. And I was labeled that before I understood what feminism actually was, right?
SPEAKER_01And what is it?
SPEAKER_06Well, the reason I've had a hard time with it is because everyone has treated me equally. I I've had men treat me shitty, I've had women treat me shitty. I've had men treat me amazing and help me, and I've had women do the same. So to me, a cool person's a cool person, an asshole's an asshole, right? But what I'm learning now is this systemic, historic suppression of women and female voices from the creator of Monopoly was a woman, and it was taken and rebranded and patented by a man. So many things, so many things throughout history, women have been silenced, women have been plagiarized, women's voices have been taken away so that it became normal. I mean, think about this. We couldn't get a fucking credit card or a mortgage until the 70s. What were we supposed to do? What were we supposed to do?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_06And so it's it we've had no option. We've had no other option. And so now the way my mom raised me, because you know, my mom had two of us alone, right? And it's not that my dad, my my, you know, my biological dad is dead now, but at the time he wasn't dead. He chose to not be there, right? And so my mom, I'm sure, would have loved to be taken care of and and And nurtured and loved and all that, but it wasn't an option for her. So she had to figure it out. Right. And she raised us, instilling that fear in us that if shit hits the fan, when shit hits the fan, what are you going to have as your foundation under you to make sure that you're good?
SPEAKER_05Right?
SPEAKER_06Something to fall back on. Men have never had to think about that before, ever. Right?
SPEAKER_05Very sure.
SPEAKER_06And so at the same time as I'm learning now, I'm discovering this history that's true, that's been hidden and buried all the way back to biblical times. Like, who's read the Gospel of Mary? Who's read the Gospel of Mary?
SPEAKER_01I haven't.
SPEAKER_06It existed and it was fucking suppressed. Fuck that. Fuck that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I feel it.
SPEAKER_06And so I and so for me, feminism always felt like a wrong label because I've never experienced any sort of I've experienced a lot of abuse. I mean, try tattooing 15 years ago as a chick. You know what I mean? Try, try getting an apprenticeship. What do you have to do? You have to endure. And I'm so glad that I did because I was prepared for it, right? And it gave me thick fucking skin.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Right. But I had no idea until I took the time to actually dive in and research how many times women have been behind some of the greatest discoveries, some of the greatest inventions, some of the greatest medical and scientific revelations and revolutions. And we've been play we've been plagiarized, right? And so I'm not angry, but I do believe that in order for humanity to succeed, you need to understand the yin-yang balance of it all. There is no light without dark. There is no chaos without order. And and the masculine feminine and the and the mask the sorry the divine masculine and the divine feminine are this perfect yin-yang of harmony that needs to work together and understand one another. Right.
SPEAKER_05Exactly.
SPEAKER_06To fully reach our best potential. Because if one side is continuously suppressing the other side and holding it down, we will never succeed as a society, as a species. It'll never happen.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Right. Um, I also think that, and maybe this is just my opinion. I keep saying that because I want to offend everyone ever so fucking offended these days. Everyone's so offended, right? These are thoughts. These are thoughts. And what if they thought the truth is, is is and I'm not speaking for all, but I'm saying I think men these days are having a hard time understanding what their role is supposed to be at the same time, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Because what was considered masculine, you know what I mean, a lot of the times is now uh considered, you know, too harsh or too unempathetic or too abusive or too too toxic, right? Um and so I think men are having a hard time trying to figure out what their role is in all of this, then. You know what I mean? Because when it comes down to it, a lot of women, not all, a lot of women still in their minds, you want a man to be a man. But what does that mean? You want a man to be a man? What does that mean? What's a man to you?
SPEAKER_01And to me, uh it's always been like real contradicting because on one end, I'll hear women say like, like they'll condemn the man that's like soft or like doing things that you know men don't do. You know what I mean? Like, like, like, I feel like men, it's like you project the things that you have been taught forever about like what a man is supposed to show up as. You know what I mean? Like, even for me, uh it's like I'll have like a lot of like let's say straight friends, right? Who will find comfort in being around me, straight male friends who will find comfort in being around me because I allow them to just be yourself. I don't give a fuck. Like, you're not gonna get judged here. I'm not gonna like shun you for like, you know, I I don't know. You know what I mean? But you know what I'm saying? It's just like it's like but you go out into the world and you feel like you're gonna put on this face, you know, and you put on the face, and then it's like do people want it or or or don't they? You know what I mean? Because I feel like you talk about toxic masculinity, but then when you when people take that away, it's like, oh, you're not a real man.
SPEAKER_06But it's a what does that mean, a real man?
SPEAKER_02It's a lose lose, though. I feel like you know, you can show that softness, that vulnerability, that empathetic side, but then it's like if you're being that, men are so confused because it's like you could be drinking strawberry lemonade, and they're like, oh, as a grown man, you just but that's but that's but that's but that's I I was just making an example. It's like as a grown man, you drinking strawberry lemonade. So it's like men, we can't find our way of how to move, but just to play devil's advocate just a little bit, you know, just because I mean I I I would I would like you know to to see, you know, when you say women like to make money to get further away from men, it are you talking more so like the dependency part? Do you know what the number one cause of death is for women? Before I took like two of these, I definitely it's men.
SPEAKER_06It's men.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow, okay. So so safety reasons, gotcha.
SPEAKER_06But I understand why y'all are confused because I think everyone is confused, right? And I will say something that may be controversial, perfect for your segment. When I had a theus, right, when Arlo and I had the baby, we noticed something interesting happening, right? And it's something that's that was biological because I feel like human beings we're animals, but we're different than animals in a sense where we're conscious, right? And so half of us is spiritual consciousness and half of us is biology, right? In whatever way that means, it's different for everyone, obviously. I feel like everyone is a spectrum of these things. Everyone is when we had the baby and the baby would cry, right? Cry, the infant cry. My first instinct, and I'm talking, I'm not like what I'm supposed to do, my instinct, my soul is to nurture, to feed. What can I do? How can I help? Right. That's what came out of me, right? Arla was the opposite. His cortisol would rise and he would go into territorial mode because he in it like instinctually felt like he had to protect. So my intuition was to nurture, and his intuition was to protect, right? And that's not what we thought society wanted from us. That's what came out of us, out of our biology, right? And so do I think that roles, men and women, are absolutely black and white? No, because I think that, especially nowadays where people are open enough and supportive enough and understanding enough to know that um gender roles and gender terms and all of that, it's fluid. It is, right? It depends on the energy that's inside of you, right? And I'm always someone that's like, no violence ever. What are we fucking primates? Yeah, we're evolved. All of us were evolved. No violence, no war, none of that shit, right? No more of that. Atheist, my baby's not allowed to kill bugs in our house because I don't want him to have the core belief that his life matters more than any other life. That is not true. I'm sorry. And if you kill something, if you're gonna kill something, you better fucking need to eat it or feed your family. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't kill something to feel better about yourself as a trophy. That's not what life is. Right. Right. Um, and so I was in a conversation about this the other day about how, you know, I'm like, I'm like, violence is not the answer. War is not the answer, all the shit. And someone said to me, Okay, well, what happens if uh bombs go off tomorrow, shit hits the fan, you go to nurture your son. Aren't you going to want strong men who are capable, who are brave to fucking protect who are you gonna look to? Yeah. And the truth is, in my mind, I thought, I want a big, strong dude. That's what I thought. So, what is the answer? It is black and white. And so when you ask me questions like that, I think it's an amazing topic that we should be discussing. Everyone should, because I don't know. Yeah, I think when I posted that, that is the truth.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_06That is the truth. But there's lots of other things that are true at the same time, right? Like what I just told you. There's layers, right?
SPEAKER_02It's so crazy that you just said that because I that was my follow-up. That was the reason why I asked this, because I say that it's just my perspective. Um, you know, I say it's from a point of luxury that we can have it's like, yeah, um, that it that may be a statistic. Um, and well, the the statistic, but that's from a place of like luxury because we have created it a sense of safety over here from you know, uh from violence and in some sort. So, what if an EMP was to drop right now? All electricity is out, we're back in the dark ages, and now it's every man for himself. I wonder if, and it's just like a curiosity, I wonder if the same perspective of we want to make money to get further away from men, I wonder if that was to change because now we're back in our instinct of I need to get with someone so I can be protected, you know. So I just I just wonder if it is protecting.
SPEAKER_06Protection, but I think protection is fluid as well because in this world, protection is different than it used to be. In this world, if if you need to, in this world you have to survive, obviously, right? So to survive, you need to be able to pay your bills, you need to be able to pay for your fucking health insurance, you know? Like you need to be able to do that shit. And in the past, women did not have it's not that they didn't have the opportunity or the capability or the intelligence or any of that. We weren't allowed to exercise that shit. And now we have to because shit does hit the fan. But in cases like you're saying, I think women are capable of everything. I think men are capable of everything. I think what we need to do is we need to understand each other. And I think everyone is a shade of gray in a sense where what I can contribute and what each of the other women in the room contribute, that's all going to be different. We all contribute different shit, and so do men. I think what we need to do is we need to start not thinking that everyone is created exactly the same, because that's not true either. But we are all worthy and we all do have our place and our importance. And once we start appreciating and understanding the differences in one another and how everyone ticks, and we all can can have an appreciation for the different roles that we can play, that's where harmony and peace is going to come.
SPEAKER_02The yin and the yang.
SPEAKER_06The the yin and the yang is the most important.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. The same way that you know you hear the baby crying in the middle of the night, and that instinct of like nurture, nurture, you know. Do you think that, you know, with this ideology, if something was a catastrophe was gonna happen, do you think that same instinct of okay, I don't necessarily have the instinct survival, survival instinct, it's more nurture. Is now are you reverting back to like, okay, I I just need to be protected because I don't know what can happen. Now I know it's more so about strength.
SPEAKER_06For me, and I can't speak for everyone, I can't speak for all women, but for me, it's like, do I question my ability intellectually? No. But if I was gonna fist fight one of these big dudes in the room, who would win? A big dude. Yeah, and that's not me not believing in myself. Yeah, you have 60 pounds on me and it's all muscle. You know what I mean? What am I gonna do? Scratch me with my fucking nails. And that's not demeaning myself, yeah, but my interests and everything have been different. And and so I'm not saying there's no like I also don't believe this, the opposite side of the spectrum. Like, I'm not like a feminist to the sense where I'm like, we don't need men. You know what I mean? I'm not that way either. I love men. I wish I didn't. I'd be a lot healthier, I'd be a lot healthier and happier. Um, what I'm saying is no matter if you're a man or a woman or whatever, you need to have some fucking empathy. Exactly. Do you know what I'm saying? Right, yeah. And like what men need to realize is that like, you know, men have always not all men, but a lot of men through history have glorified women like trophies.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06When have women done that to men and taken their own prerogative over knowingly, knowingly hurting someone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Knowingly going into it, being like, if she finds out I'm out of here. If you someone's gonna be that hurt by an action, don't make the fucking action, don't do it. And and you know what I think the job of a man is if you're a real fucking man in the sense that you want to be, it is to protect.
SPEAKER_02It's to protect all of the people that you love. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Sometimes there is like backlash though, from wanting that. I think just so being a leader, being an owner of a shop, I feel like when you actively give help that people don't ask for, that's when you get the most friction and pushback. It's only when they ask for it that it's most appreciated. That's like that's why they say, you know, the game is to be sold, not told. Only stuff that you purchase and you actively invest in that is more so appreciated. So sometimes I feel like as a man, if you do offer that help, it's immediately taken, like, oh, you think that I need this? So it's kind of hard to find.
SPEAKER_06But you gotta stop taking people's responses personally. That's them. Everyone just projects their inner feeling, you know what I'm saying? And all you can do is be the best person to your capability, but what do you deem a a good person? And that's what I'm saying is if everyone acted on their actual morals, life would be a lot different. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_05Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Like because I think a lot of men fucking high five and glorify. I just found out yesterday somebody that I know fucking cheated on their wife, and it makes me think of them like it does, because if their wife knew, she'd be fucking heartbroken and he knows it too, and he still fucking did it. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01And that goes into when you say your job is to protect, even if it's I'm protecting you from even potentially emotional, yeah.
SPEAKER_06But it's also emotional to protect against against evil, and everyone should protect one another. It's not just men protecting women. We're not helpless, yeah. No one's helpless. Everyone has a different role to play in terms of protection, but also everyone has a different role to play in terms of empathy, feeling for the other person, understanding that what you do affects other people.
SPEAKER_01Right. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I swear to God, it's bringing me to my next, my next cut the shit question.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, before that though, uh I'm so I I love this topic. I feel like Ryan loves this topic too.
SPEAKER_06I love it because you know why? Because people are so afraid to talk about anything these days. We're afraid to talk about politics, we're afraid to talk about norms, we're afraid to talk about society, we're afraid to talk about gender, we're afraid, and and you know what people do when they're afraid? They cling to the identity that they feel most comfortable with, and they're not comfortable or the most popular or the most popular because they want to feel accepted, they want to feel like they're a part of something, and people want to belong. And if all that you can belong to is the identity that you've clung to, then that's who you are. And people are afraid to say, yo, you know what? I was wrong about that. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Cut the shit. Is that a winner mindset or a loser mindset? What just clinging to wanting to feel like to be along and not go against the grain and standing on exactly your perspective and your ideology, it depends on what it is.
SPEAKER_06I think that's all a shade of gray. Do you actually fully need to live your life to the most true belief system that you believe. Everyone in this room, all of our realities are different. No one shares the same reality. You know what I'm saying? And so people cling on to realities they don't actually believe in, and it's an old identity of theirs. People cling on to a version of themselves that they've outgrown years ago because it's comfortable and it's secure and it's who they think they need to be.
SPEAKER_01And I think in our in our generation specifically, I don't think people question what they believe enough, often enough. You know what I mean? Because you may grow up thinking you believe something, but you've been taught to believe that. Exactly. Like who taught you and why they teach you that.
SPEAKER_06Exactly.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06And and I know this because in motherhood, there's so many times my son will do something and I react, and then I realize in the moment I'm saying exactly what my mom said, exactly how she said it, exactly for the reason. And then I have to stop and question do I actually believe this, or am I regurgitating something that I have been subconsciously taught? You know what I'm saying? And so I think people need to live their true realities, and I think people need to have conversations like this. Because I'm not coming in telling you this is how it is. I'm coming in being like, here's where I'm at. Where are you at? And I need to see you, and you need to see me. And if people are too afraid to have these conversations, progress is never going to happen. And people are afraid to have them because they're afraid of being challenged, they're afraid of their comfortable identity being questioned, they're afraid of being wrong for having to change. And where is progress without change?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. This is why we got Ryan on this. This is what we wanted. This is what we're talking about. You want to talk about politics actually? Yeah, no, this this this is this is why we have this segment cut this shit. And and before we get to the next question, I do want to say like I think that's the beauty of being a parent is that when you do see those moments, you have a chance now to it's like when I look at my son, it's just like seeing what I went through as uh you know a kid, it's like I get a chance now to like heal a part of me. And when I see him, I see me.
SPEAKER_06Got a hundred percent. But when are we overcorrecting?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Do you find yourself overcorrecting a lot of the time?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I I try to still give him grace now and give myself grace in it, but just seeing him, I'm just like, I see me, and it's just like I get to do do over not only raising him, but healing me. So it's yeah, it's uh so here's another thing I'm gonna bring up.
SPEAKER_06I I have a spicy topic for you. Can I switch it for a second?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, cut the shit. Cut the shit.
SPEAKER_06So a few years ago, I was invited to come be a part of a convention that was an all-women convention, and I said no. Because I don't think that fighting suppression with suppression is the answer either. Does that make sense? I don't believe women shouldn't support each other. I fucking love women, I think we're amazing in power, but I love men too, dude. And when you cut one out, you're fighting anger. And my mom used to always say, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. And it's true. You don't strive for equality when you flip it and you say, Well, I wasn't invited to your party, so now you're not invited to my party. And I also think that's not a way of evolution because when you completely eliminate adversity, you eliminate your capability of coping with the real fucking world because not everyone is going to be able to evolve as you evolve. Right. So that's why you need to surround yourself with people, not just that are on your same Facebook fucking scroll algorithm. Everyone that follows the same algorithm is gonna have the same ideas. You need to surround yourself with people that do think differently than you and feel differently than you, so you can learn from one another. Because if you only surround yourself by people that think exactly the same way as you, you are never going to progress ever.
SPEAKER_04Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_06So these hard fucking conversations need to be had, but without anger and without taking it personally. You need to come into these being like, this is how I feel, how do you feel? And why? And if you're gonna tell me that you strongly believe in something, I accept that, but you need to be able to tell me why. Why do you believe that? Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So if you ask me why, why did you say what you said? This is why.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I love it. I I I think that's amazing. Um and I'm sure other people, when they saw that, they probably felt the same way. But as soon as I saw, I was like, this is going and cut the shit. This is the same thing.
SPEAKER_06This is another thing too. Just because I post shit like that doesn't mean I don't find a place for men. I have a son who I love more than anything in the world. Do you know what I mean? Some of the people that have lifted me up and held me have been men. But I think that those men that are strong enough to know themselves can also accept the truth of what has historically happened with women, right? You don't, you don't have to, I'm a man, so I'm just gonna put that multiple things can be true at the same time. And I think acceptance of real of a consensus of reality will only allow you to further empath empathize with one another and see one another. And it's only then in that harmony and that unity and that love, it's love, it's love and it's gratitude. It's not hate, right? But I think. To understand that love, you can never understand what it's like owning a shop until you own a shop.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_06Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_06And so a lot of people think I had my own opinions on feminism. I thought women that were super feminist were angry and hateful and all this shit. And some of them are for sure for just reasons. Right. But the truth is, is people feel the way they feel because they don't have all the information. What's the information? What is it? Let's talk about it together. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Or the agenda. Or the agenda. You know, I've I don't want to go. Yeah, I'm on the other.
SPEAKER_06I don't want to go there. I don't want to go agenda.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to go that route. I was just you should see my algorithm right now.
SPEAKER_06We should open each other's Instagram algorithms.
SPEAKER_02Um you know, I was just gonna say it's just like um okay, let's not go go. Do you want to?
SPEAKER_06Do you want to see what's in mind?
SPEAKER_02Maybe, maybe, maybe, yeah. We'll come back. We'll do another another episode. Um, because I feel like we could go forever on this topic. And I love it. I love conversations like this. What you got?
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay. No, I love the conversation too. I love the topic. Um, and honestly, uh, when he first said that he wanted to talk about that, the it was like a meme or whatever. You mean I was like, I was like, duh. Like, yeah. Duh.
SPEAKER_06Why do you think I post it? Because I want to keep it secret.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. But I could tell that he thought differently about it. So it was just like, oh, maybe if you have because it was duh to me, but maybe there is another perspective that needs to be explored. So it wasn't, it wasn't that I disagreed.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't think like I wasn't saying I disagree. I was just saying I I feel like we sometimes we make our perspectives because things there is violence over here, there is harm that happens, but compared to other countries, it is peaceful here.
SPEAKER_06And to us to a certain extent, it was as of a few weeks ago.
SPEAKER_02Well, well, I'm just saying, as a as a you're right, you're right. As a whole, so I'm just saying it's like we're in a conversation.
SPEAKER_06And I'm not discrediting that either, but you know what? I'm tired of hearing we can't complain, they have it worse.
SPEAKER_02They have it better. I wasn't I wasn't saying that.
SPEAKER_06I'm just saying, like just because women aren't being uh beaten in the streets doesn't mean we should take what we've been given without any question, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_06You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01Or even accept it at all for real.
SPEAKER_06And and and to me, like everything recently has become no one wants to talk politics and all of this shit, right? But for me, I'm not a politician, I'm not into politics, but you know what I am into humanity, humanity, basic human decency, and we're fucking losing it, guys. We're losing it hard, hard. Love one another, accept one another. I don't give a fuck who you fuck. I don't give a fuck where you're from, I don't give a fuck what color. Are you a good person or are you a fucking asshole? That's what I care about. You know what I'm saying? And and and that's not saying we shouldn't all understand each other and why we are the way we are, where we come from, what struggles we've gone through. All of that is part of the beautiful journey that makes us who we are. If everyone was exactly the same, be fucking groundhog day. How boring would life be?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_06You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And and but but it's a unity in a sense of appreciating the differences, appreciating the different roles that we have to play. You know what I mean? Some some bros want to be fucking bros. And guess what? Some chicks love that, and they should find one another. And I hope they do. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? But if shit hits the fan, that chick that loved the bro should be able to get a fucking credit card, you know, and we're past that, but like, but like, you know, yeah, we yeah, we definitely made improvements and progressed, and um yeah, yeah, we'll we'll revisit this.
SPEAKER_02I love I'll love yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I love this so much. And and and it's funny because I'm like, I mean, honestly, they go hand in hand, this first question and the second question, because I feel like you're very self-aware, and I feel like as self-aware, I don't think people realize how even meeting you, like when they first meet you, I don't think people realize how self-aware you are. And so my question to you is just like from a male perspective, what kind of man does it or a woman? I don't know if that's on the docket to to bag Orion Ashley. Like, what kind of man would it take to come to to to approach you? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06Like I would be so relieved if I fell in love with a woman. Oh my god, please, please bring her out, bring her out. I'm ready. Come at me, baby. Right? It it's just it just hasn't happened. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Is that what you're looking for? Is a woman? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I mean, it's like you said why are you saying like in terms of in terms of I'm like talking, I'm like maybe maybe no what I'm what I'm looking for someone to see me actual me, all of me with empathy and without judgment and all of those things. Unfortunately, well, I can't say that. I was gonna say, unfortunately, when it comes to sexuality, I'm I'm like into dudes, right? But I had I don't know that actually that that is a shade of gray. That is a shade of gray, actually. Chicks are big. Yeah, women are beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_06Um, but but I will say that like what I I have I don't want to go too deep into this and I will not expand. But I have met someone recently that has redefined my previous definition of what a man is.
SPEAKER_02I'm inter I'm interested in that. Like, like, okay, without you know, going too long, what what's a key word that you can use that separates healed. What was it?
SPEAKER_06Healed.
SPEAKER_02Healed.
SPEAKER_06Healed.
SPEAKER_02Gotcha. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_06Going through all of the shit that we all go through and choosing to see things differently in the end and not cling to that old identity that they've been brought into thinking was absolutely black and white. I'm looking for someone that's open to growth. Yeah. That's empathetic, that understands just because you don't feel that way doesn't mean my feelings are invalid. Do you know what I'm saying? Someone that puts my feelings at such an importance that it's equal to their feelings, even if we don't feel the same way.
SPEAKER_02Do you know what I'm saying? It's so wild. Like, I'm just so intrigued. I love, I love hearing you talk. Um when you talk, you know, you said empathetic empathy so much throughout this. Um this.
SPEAKER_06I also love big strong dudes. You you I wish I didn't do though. You uh protect me, daddy.
SPEAKER_02Clip it, clip it.
SPEAKER_06And it and if you can't, I'm good too, though. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Clip it. Um so you said empathy and empathetic uh a lot. Damn, I that lost my train of thought just now. Um okay, so hold on. Um, so you said yeah, empathetic and empathy a lot. So what with with that, what do you think a a man is lacking? Like, what are they not giving you that feels like they don't feel where you're coming from?
SPEAKER_06Because with men in general or in my previous experiences? Well, yeah, just men in general or your previous experiences, like what is uh well, it's hard for me because, like I said, I've never entered really the dating pool. Like everyone that I've ever been romantically involved with has been someone that I've deeply devoted myself to all of the way. I'm not a surface level person, I'm not depth over everything. I don't have time for that shit. Life is too short and it's too intriguing and too amazing to waste my time on anything other than depth.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And so, um, in my experience, I can't say men because I've been in a few different relationships. They're all about five or six years long, actually. It sounds like an Adam Sandler movie. Um, but um I've loved all of them very deeply, and I know that they've loved me too. It's just a matter of I posted another meme the other day, and it said it it was this little tray, and there was an alligator and there was a frog, and there was a a water spout. And you're they were pouring the water all over the frog, and the frog was like, oh, oh, fuck now. And the frog was like, and then they poured it on the alligator, and the alligator came alive. And the meme said, It's maybe it's not what you're offering, it's who you're offering it to. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So I'm not saying there's a right way or a wrong way, or something's right, or something's wrong. You need to understand yourself completely before you can understand what type of love you need.
unknownI love that.
SPEAKER_06But everyone deserves the same thing, and it's empathy and understanding of one another, whatever that is. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Um, yeah, before we get into the next question, um, I think as a whole, that would mean that people would want to be on their own journey to find themselves, you know. I think in finding yourself too, it's like you're able. I I I heard something the other day, and you're way more successful than me, even Kevin. You know, I just feel honored to just even be in y'all's presence. So someone says to totally fucking and and Kevin and Kevin knows I give people their flowers while they're still here.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_02And you should.
SPEAKER_06And you should.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that's that's something that everyone should. I teach my kids, like that's something that I just stand on. But um, yeah, I lost my train of thought. Uh-uh.
SPEAKER_06It's there, it's coming back.
SPEAKER_02But just because I every time, every time I I talk about my kids, I just uh you know, you know what it's like being a parent. But oh, okay. So in within finding yourself, I heard I saw a quote the other day. It says, You're only as successful as what your nervous system can handle. You know, as you succeed, as you climb this ladder, you get the more, you get the most hate, you get the most envy, you get the most jealousy. Your nervous system is comp constantly being attacked. So it's almost impossible to be at a certain success without knowing yourself. But I think most people, I don't want to generalize, but most people run from that. But the beauty in it is that if you know yourself, just like in the Matrix, when she was walking, when he was walking to talk to the Oracle, you know, there is no spoon, right? When he was walking and talking to the Oracle, it was like know thyself. It was in Latin. And it's basically just like the beauty in knowing yourself, even though the mass run from that, and it can be scary because it is dark, that no matter what anybody says about you, you know yourself down to the bare that it does not affect you and it doesn't affect your nervous system at all. So, yeah, with it. I guess my question is do you think more people run from that as a collective? Or that's something that everybody's just on their journey and they embrace at different times.
SPEAKER_06I I suppose this is a bit of a question of, and I hate to say this term, but it's it is a question of spirituality because as animals, we all have the same basic needs and the basic instincts. It's the biology part of it, right? Biologically, we have to do the same shit, right? It's how deep down that rabbit hole you actually want to go, right? And I do think that quote is true because people that are too offended or too sensitive or any of those things, I'm not saying people should, you know, suppress their own emotions and everyone should beat the shit out of each other emotionally, right? But I think if someone is telling you the truth and they're coming at you with tough love and they're telling you for real, you can utilize every single piece of that as a tool. And everyone's gonna have a different opinion. It's up to you who you open the door for.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Right. Absolutely. And that is a question I think everyone debates at points in their lives. You know, we all make mistakes. We all do dumb shit. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, is this the best representation of myself? Right? Forgive yourself for making those mistakes. Forgive yourself for doing the dumb shit. But at the end of it, what have you learned from it? And are you going to repeat that same thing again and pass it on? Right. Do you identify by that action that you made? Some actions that you do in life, you choose as your cornerstones and you choose that as a point of your identity. It's up to you to be aware enough and awake enough to see it as a cornerstone and to make that a pivotal point that you, an anchor that you cling on to. If you're not awake or you're not aware, you let those moments pass.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_06Like, you know, when you're playing a video game, every so often you get to a point where you're like, yes, I can save from this point. I can save from this point, right? But if you don't grab it, if you're not, you revert back.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying? Certain checkpoint, yeah. Checkpoints, right?
SPEAKER_06And so evolution, it's like rock climbing, it's these anchors. You latch yourself here, you latch yourself there. It's up to everyone to decide what they latch themselves to. And we cling on to different things based on, but based on what? Because your reality is different than your reality is different than my reality, right? And I would hope that in terms of what the goal is, everyone has different goals, different interests, different intentions, right? But the goal as us as a mass society is to climb that shit together and be like, okay, what have we collectively learned from this? Enjoy your journey, I wish you the best. I enjoy your journey, I wish you the best. I'll see you on the other side. And I would hope that the other side would be the goal. And that goal is gratitude, understanding, and love. That's it at the end of the day. Every human on the planet wants the same thing. Unless you're a select list of politicians. But but everyone wants the same thing. Right. No?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06You want love. You want, you want, you want compass, you want to be understood. You want to feel seen, you want to feel loved. You you want to be, you want to accept yourself and have people accept the you that you've accepted. So what we what you are you accepting? Because that's gonna attract who accepts that version of you. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love it. This, I mean, this sounds like a beautiful utopia. Unfortunately, I don't think we would collectively get there. It would take a while.
SPEAKER_06Ew, what a no, no. I don't bullshit mentality.
SPEAKER_02What a bullshit mentality that it no, no, no, I'm I think it's I think it's more being a realist. Like I'm I'm I'm uh optimistic. Hold on, hold on, I'm optimistic. A realist depends on your reality though. Hold on, hold on. I'm I'm optimistic and a realist at the same time. I want us all to get there. I'm about giving us each other grace, even if we're there's there's conversations or perspectives that we stand on opposite sides. I want to meet in the middle, I want to find this common ground. I'm talking more as a collective and just being realistic that like not everybody feels that way because a lot of people have not found themselves and they're driven by lots of emotion and stuff that they necessarily don't understand yet. But this utopia, I I want us to get there. I I would love it. Um, there'll be a lot more peace.
SPEAKER_06Do you want to hear my rabbit hole answer?
SPEAKER_02We gotta get some, yeah. Well, after the after this, we're gonna get to the next one, but please, yes.
SPEAKER_06I think the earth is dividing 3D and 5D, truly. And this sounds fucking crazy and rabbit holy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we really about to go.
SPEAKER_06But I really do think there's an old earth and a new earth, and we need to fucking choose because in terms of of quantum physics um and the quantum field, everything that could ever happen, every possible situ you have to steer yourself towards any outcome. It's like fractals, and it'll happen. You need to choose before it happens what the outcome is, and and steer your life in the direction of your ultimate truth, what you want, because manifestation is real. It's absolutely fucking real, the good and the bad. So you need to not just hope, you need to believe that what the outcome is has already happened.
SPEAKER_01As clearly as if you had already lived it.
SPEAKER_06And so this exercise I've been doing recently is this thing that I found that I'd advise to all of you guys. It's dorky, but it's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Put us on, put us on.
SPEAKER_06Journal. But you don't journal from today. You date your journal from a year from now and you talk about it in past tense as it's already happened. You talk about the feelings as you've already felt them. You talk about the reaction you've already had, because just like dreams, your subconscious does not know the difference between real emotions and the emotions that you have in different realities. So once you put yourself in that and you journal, say what's today's date? Does anyone know? January 16th. Okay, January 16th.
SPEAKER_012026, Aliyah and Shade's birthday. Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_06Okay, so we're gonna journal. January 16th, 2027, right? And and and you go a year from now and you say, like, I am so grateful this last year has happened. These are all of the things that I am grateful for. I became more aware. This date changed my life. And you talk about it in past sense because it sets your subconscious on the on the direction in the quantum field. You've decided, you've taken that quantum leap of what the outcome already is, and you program your subconscious to physically act as if it's already reality and and you're and you don't know the not you, but your subconscious doesn't know the difference. So it becomes your reality. Yeah, you can fake it till you make it. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, it is true. And if anybody does not believe that, I'm gonna tell you right now, I promise I am a master manifestor. This, this, this shit she's spitting right now. Before I even knew that's even as a kid, before I even knew that's what I was doing, I was doing it because even up until the point, even getting on Inkmaster, all these things was manifestation. There was no reason why I should have met you or you, me. You know what I mean? I feel like it was a thing that just like you know where you want to go. And it's like if you can feel it and make it real to yourself, you subconsciously will develop a pathway to get there and won't even realize it. You will just know the signs. You just like you see a street sign. That's a green light, I need to go this way. This is a red light, I'm not going that way. You know what I mean? It'll it'll actually manifest itself.
SPEAKER_06So I went on this loop. I I've been on this thing recently because I've been having a really hard time with my algorithm because it's all bad shit happening. Right. And I was talking to my friend Chris, who I've been friends with forever, our kids are best friends, and I was like, Can you imagine if if this happened to your child? Like, what would you do? And Chris said, I don't want to imagine because that's not my timeline. That was a past timeline of mine. And I feel it so deeply because I've lived it and I don't choose that for this life. My timeline, and this is different. You have to not just want it, you have to decide. You don't not wanting it, not believing it, you have to decide. You have to choose, right? Choose it, right? And you need to see it, you need to feel it in in all of you, like in all of you, not just your thoughts, not just your body, in this like plasma middle dimension where you need to literally emanate the the result that you want to have. And once you decide that's your reality, it comes into fruition, I promise you.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_06And so, and so world peace and the utopia, that would be nice. No, it is gonna be nice, it is going to be nice.
SPEAKER_02I I love that. Um, I think more so it might be a defense mechanism. I think I try to not put that out there, not just so I'm not let down, because I would love that even for my kids, you know.
SPEAKER_06Um But you can't, but you can't allow yourself to be let down by society because you're gonna let yourself down in the meantime, and you're gonna let yourself down because you know what you want, and you're letting society beat you into thinking that that's not a possibility because what you want and what society is allowing you to believe is reality are different. Yeah, what do you what do you want? That's reality.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um you gotta come back. Yeah, this is this is a beautiful conversation. Um, I love this so much. Um, Marcus is looking at with his arms crossed, looking like y'all better hurry the fuck us.
SPEAKER_04Take the wheel real quick.
SPEAKER_02Uh oh no, no, no. Let her have the wheel. This is why we have her here. Uh I I man, I I enjoy stuff like this. I it's important. It is important.
SPEAKER_06And it's important not just for us, it's important for everyone to have conversations like this and and take it with a grain of salt and and not come out of it feeling like you're wrong or that you with your tail come out of it as an experience with gratitude, saying thank you for the change of heart. Thank you for that information, thank you for that conversation because now I am changed. Not I don't want to talk about it because what you believe and what I believe are different. So let's not talk about it. That's the reason you talk about it. That's the reason.
SPEAKER_02I always say people avoid that because they truly don't understand their reasoning.
SPEAKER_06Well, it ruins Christmas dinner, also.
SPEAKER_02That's what makes it better, though, you know. Um Um, okay, so we're gonna switch gears just a little bit. Um, I want to touch on now tattoo industry stuff. So, new artists, there's been a mass wave of artists quitting. This have been artists who've been tattooing over 10 years and some who've been tattooing just a couple of years. How do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_06I think there's okay, you ready?
SPEAKER_02I want the real I want the real yeah, because I'm gonna give you the real.
SPEAKER_06I am having a hard time giving respect to artists that are demanding respect that have not. Okay, let me rephrase that. I'm having a hard time giving artists respect that have never given the industry the respect that it deserves. I'm having a hard time with artists coming into it thinking this is cool or fun or easy or fast money. That is not the reason to be a tattooer. I think that is an absolutely blatant disrespect for the impact you have on people's lives. And I think to be successful in this industry, really successful and in a fulfilling kind of way, not in a blood money kind of way. In a fulfilling kind of way, you need to understand that you're changing people's fucking lives, man. And you need to understand what people went through to make this possible. And I debate this with myself all of the time because I came in at a time where I was right on the cusp of the old way and the new way, right? And and and so I connect with the middle and the balance of it all, right? I think the old timers who paved the way, who carved the path, who made their machines, who formulated this technology, a lot of them are angry and they're bitter, right? And they have a right to be because these new generations coming in, these kids have no fucking tattoos.
SPEAKER_01We're moving tattoo, get a fucking tattoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06How are you gonna empathize with your clients or have any love or respect for what it is that we do if you don't have a tattoo?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Oh, I don't mind my buddy.
SPEAKER_02Fuck you.
SPEAKER_06That's how I feel truly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_06I have given my life to this industry. And the reason I was able to do it was because all of those people before me, a lot of them gave their actual lives for this to be a possibility. And for these kids to come in using AI, having their stencils printed out for them as the AI that they didn't create. You're a computer printer. You're a computer printer that's making money. It's a job. Why don't you sit in a fucking toll booth? That's how I feel. Yeah, I I agree. I because real art has soul, it has imperfections, it has mistakes, it has evolution. Fuck up. You need to fuck up. Yeah, you need to because you need to find yourself, right? What's the difference between art that I do and art that the computer does? Is I'm doing it with consciousness. I'm doing it based on watching myself create from my mind, right? Alex and Allison Gray have an entire religion. It's, you know, the chapel of sacred mirrors. And it's about how artists are these mediums where we are these mediums between source and the physical plane. And we bring these things from source and make them real. And it's the translation of that, the individual translation. Everyone has a different accent artistically, everyone has a different voice. It's that translation that makes it art. It's your choices, it's your fuck us, it's your mistakes. It's the same with people, it's the extra freckle that gives you the personality. It's it's the imperfections, right? And and I do have a problem with people thinking they could AI shit, print it out on these printers that print out these stencils perfectly and all of that, and replicate work in a toll booth, dude. That's how I feel. And that's nasty, but it's fucking true. And you know why? It's because I have been so inspired by these artists that create out of their mind, out of their memory, out of their soul, and they give that to people. What musician creates a new hit song every single fucking day? What musician could come out every single day and create a new hit song? That's what we're expected to do. And I also understand the balance because of the demand. It's like, how do you do that? So of course, people rely on these things. Of course, people rely. But I think that you have to have a respect for the industry, for what it is, for the soul of it, for the purpose. And even if you're you're a realism artist or a replicator, I'm not saying that that's an art form in itself. I can't do that shit. So I can't, I can't replicate like you can. No fucking way. Right. But it's your composition, it's your color choices, it's it's the choices that you make. I have a problem with tattooers coming in that make no fucking choices for themselves, that are, that are doing what they think is popular or what's cool or what's on Pinterest. That is not a reason to be in this industry. And this is controversial because as much as I want to keep tattooing underground, I want to keep the heart in it, I want to keep the soul in it, I want to keep all of that shit. I also understand that my part in all of this has been making it more mainstream and making it more because I've played a part in that. And I'm proud of that because I do think anyone that loves it should have the opportunity to tattoo and to get tattooed. Everyone deserves that opportunity. Yes, but not everyone loves it. And the people that are quitting, people are quitting for all different reasons, right? But the people that love it for real are never going to quit. Exactly. Are never going to quit ever. Even if you're not charging money. If I I wish I won the lottery so I could not to be rich, I make enough money, but so that I can do tattoos that are impactful and empowering and important, because that's what tattoos fucking do. Yeah. I'm, you know what I mean? Thank God I make a lot of money tattooing. And I do because I've worked my fucking ass off. But that's not what makes me feel fulfilled at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06It's the look on someone's face when they feel differently about themselves and they're confident and they feel like they've chipped off a piece of their own identity. You give that to people. And the more you care about the art, the more it means to them because intention is everything. It's like what we were talking about earlier with plants. It's scientifically proven that plants respond on your energy. Plants, right? They do, they respond to your intention. And everything works that way. And so if you're coming in, printing some shit out, slapping it on, being like, that emanates, that resonates. You know what I'm saying? But when you come in being like, yo, I thought about your story and I thought about this and I created this, that resonates as well because that's human connection and that's the power of tattooing. From the beginning of time, tattoos have been powerful, they've been spiritual, but they've been significant. And I hate that we're losing that hated. I hate it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And so the people that love tattooing are always going to tattoo. It's the people that have a problem with the industry or with the economy or whatever. Yeah. And everyone has to survive. I'm not saying anything about that. I'm just saying if you love something, you'll never let it die.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. How do you how do you feel about that? I I'm more, I'm exactly agreeing with her. I'm like a little bit more raw, like get out. You know, it's just like because it's something about me, like the past eight years, you know, even with having a family and everything, it's like I tattoo over New Year's. I like to bring in the new, I like to end the new year the same way I'm like bringing it in. And this is like everything to me, even coming from a sports background. So like how I feel, bye. Because like if you don't love it as much as me, I I am in a way, even though I shouldn't be like projecting this, I get a little offended. Because I'm just like, this is this is my baby. This is everything that I have. This is how I built my legacy and and built something for my bloodline. So what's cut the shit?
SPEAKER_01For me, um, it's funny because I don't even really, I don't think that I even self-reflect on how much I love the industry when I hear about somebody quitting. It's just like if you make a kid play soccer because all their friends are playing soccer, say want to play soccer, and then when they start playing soccer, they don't like it, they want to quit. Then quit. It's it's for me, it's as simple as that. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. I don't even think about their their reasons or justifications. Oh, don't I don't like these cleats, I don't like my jerseys, I don't like kicking the ball, I don't like running up and down the field. Your your reasoning for quitting, I don't even care. The fact is you want to quit, so quit. You know, and I've been tattooing for 20 years at this point. This month actually makes 20 years. And I've been through ups, I've been through downs, I've been in and out. My career has done roller coaster rides. And I'm I'm here. I've seen other people along the way quit. But they go get regular jobs. I don't even question, I don't even ask them why they quit. It sometimes it's my friends who quit. You know, I don't even I don't even ask. That's your decision to make. And to me, I wouldn't want anybody to ask me why I'm quitting something. It's personal.
SPEAKER_06Someone tattooing you that didn't love tattooing.
SPEAKER_01I only want people tattooing me who loves tattooing. But before I get tattooed, I've never asked someone, do you love this? You know what I mean? Yeah, it's just for me, but everyone gets the tattoo that they deserve. But hold on, but but think about like this love, just like with anything, it it goes in and out. Like they could love it in that moment. Tomorrow they may not. In the moment when they tattooed me, they could have they could love it, they couldn't want nothing else. Tomorrow that could all change. So to me, it's just like you are where you are.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I'm just saying, no, I and I agree completely. I agree completely with that, right? And and I don't think it just like everything else, like I don't think every artist has their best day every day.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And like the it's been a lot for me recently, too. It's your mentality because I think art, um, it's it's comes out of you, right? It your feelings come out of you. When I'm in a dark place, my art is dark. When I'm fucked up and I'm hungover and I'm drinking too much, my art's scratchy, dude. But when I'm happy and I'm fulfilled and I know that I have enough, I'm fulfilled enough to then stretch outward and give to others, my artwork shows that as well. And it's those highs that you're striving for. And for me, the best moments I've ever had tattooing are the moments when I look in the mirror with someone and I know that their life has changed and they can see themselves. There's nothing that feels fulfilling like that because you left a positive impact. You stuck your finger like this in the ripple, and you stuck your finger in the liquid of life and you caused a ripple that's positive. And that positivity will continue to ripple. But if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, there's a million other industries that you can exploit. Don't exploit ours.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_06We love it too much. I love it too much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's no, I love that. I honestly, that's that's to me. I just want it in in this segment, that's what I want it to be about. You know what I mean? Like truths that people don't really explore or talk about, especially from people who you don't really get to hear it raw from. You know what I mean? Um, so yeah, I just feel like it's a beautiful answer. Um look, I'm about to pivot real quick. Um so we do have a a group of tattooers here, um, all from different walks of life, different perspectives. Um I wanted to know and open the floor to any one of y'all who may or may not have a question for Ryan based off everything you heard today, or even shit that you may have thought of before you got here. Snow. Okay. What's up, Snow?
SPEAKER_03It actually goes along with what you were somewhat talking about just girl recently. Um, one of my things is that our school through ups and downs. We have moments whenever we need to kind of take a little bit of a step back and kind of find ourselves and find something more before we are able to continue with uh our careers. Um, and I know everybody has gone through that, um, especially when you're actually for an extended amount of time. And so I'm wondering how do you give yourself the grace to be able to take like a step back, focus on some other things, but then also not feel guilty for taking that results, not feeling selfish for taking that step and taking that time for yourself to focus, let's say, on your family, on your kids, on spirituality, on something that you just want to see in the world is going to end up making you a better person, being able to do a better job. How do you give yourself right with this?
SPEAKER_06So your mom, I know your mom. You know, they say, like, the happier you are as a mom, the happier your children are gonna be. It's the same way with art, right? Whatever feeling you feel on the inside is gonna exude on the outside, right? And sometimes you don't want those feelings to show. So it's not only, it's not only grace you need to give yourself, it's also a response, an awareness and a responsibility of what's exuding out of you, right? And so I've gone through so many periods of tattooing where I'm so uninspired and it's felt like a job, and I it's painful to go in because I know that what I'm giving is not my best. And if you know that going into it, you got to take a step back and start back at your foundation and figure out what inspires you. And that's not grace that you have to give yourself. It's a um it's a standard responsibility for for both your growth and for your clients, right? And so what I do when I'm really uninspired in tattooing is I go to other forms of art, right? I'll make weird sculptures. I've been doing Legos recently. I probably spent$3,000 on Legos the last few years. Clay, right? Because just because you're a tattoo doesn't mean you shouldn't exercise other parts of your brain, right? I'm not a sculptor, but I sculpt all the time because sometimes seeing things in 3D, something clicks in your brain, and all of a sudden you wake up and you understand how to render something. And so everything is about knowing yourself. The more you know yourself, the more you understand yourself, the more you can love yourself, and the more you can open yourself up to that evolution. Because if you stay in that same box for forever, you're confining yourself, right? And so think about it like seasons. Can't be summer all the time, right? And how beautiful is spring. Because the flowers are blooming and you know that summer is coming, right? And the fall is beautiful once you realize, yes, it's getting colder, but what's about to happen? You're gonna go through this cocoon phase, this transitional phase, and something more beautiful is gonna blossom on the other side. You know what I mean? Can't rain all the time, you know. And so you have to understand the transitions of it and understand that if you're getting to that point, then you're hitting the next level where you're hitting that point in the cycle where you're about to evolve. You know, it's always darkest before the dawn. So don't get discouraged because you have to quantum leap and know that what's on the other side of that uninspired period is going to be a new phase of inspiration, but it's up to you to find it. You know what I mean? And you gotta find it. And it might be in weird places, really weird flea markets and shit.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's it's seeing someone like you who like, and it's so refreshing who like welcomes adversity almost. Like have to. I wouldn't say that's like the general mindset, but I I feel like it's a winning mindset. Most people they run from it, comfort zone is everything for them. So just hearing someone who's like, adversity, like I need, you know, a challenge, I need something. It's it's very, very refreshing to hear that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I mean, I feel like I understand those things through experience, though. I've gone through those dark times, I've gone through those very uninspired periods. I felt like quitting the other day. I was like, I think I'm done tattooing. The other day, I was like, I think I'm done. Right? It's not that I'm done, it's I'm inspired. And so what I need to do isn't quit. It's that I need to get reinspired. And honestly, days like today with you guys and this experience and everything, it is uplifting and it is inspiring because I feel like everyone's going to leave with maybe just a fragment of something new that they didn't have before. But to me, that's progress. Exactly. Right? To me, that is what inspiration is.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_06And you have to understand life is like fractals. Whatever you focus on comes into fruition. So if it's inspiration that you're desiring, don't expect it to come to you. You have to seek it out. Right. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Anybody anybody else, Gareth?
SPEAKER_07Yes, but wrote it down to me. Come on.
SPEAKER_06It's like Mari Povich, they hand him the microphone. You are the father.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so I wrote a few notes down. Um, yeah, from everything that you guys have talked about, it's beautiful to see our introspective like QR while still remaining grounded. And uh yeah, my question for that is uh before finding your success in art and life, business, all of that stuff, did you find yourself in a period of insulation from an external world and uh maybe isolation, like an incubation period? And then if so, how did that experience shape your beliefs currently? And what is the most valuable lesson that you would share with your younger self?
SPEAKER_06Well, that's a that's a big one. Um I think the key to everything is balance. I think I've been going through a cocoon phase recently where for the last few years, because of everything that's been going on, I've avoided people and groups and friends because the question, how are you, was really painful for me to answer because nothing positive or light was gonna come out of it. And so I didn't want to answer it. And so I cocooned and I secluded and all of those things. Those, you know, and so many people were like, you need to go out, hang out with your friends, you know. But there are periods where you do need to internalize. You do need to, before you communicate with the outer world, you need to reconnect and communicate with yourself, right? And then try to decide what to keep and carry with you and what to toss out. And so it's only recently, you know, that I've been present enough with myself and remembering who I actually am to have the confidence to go out and have conversations again. I know that sounds crazy, but like, um, and I'm finding again that being in groups of people like this and guest spotting and all of that, it's not a taxing thing and it's not a burden anymore. But it was, right? And now I'm finally able to work with groups of tattooers and be reinvigorated and be reinspired and be able to take in their influence and their energy. But I think you have to be grounded and connected with yourself first and foremost before you can take in anyone else's opinions or inspiration and or ideas, because sometimes you question, just like we were talking about with regurgitating past beliefs. It's like, what thoughts and ideas are mine and what thoughts and ideas are being regurgitated? And so it's keeping yourself grounded in a sense where even if you're going through turbulent times, even if you're lost, that core sense of yourself is always there. And you and you have the ability to decide then what direction it actually goes in. You know what I mean? Um, there's been a lot of times in my career I I've worked by myself in private studios and I've just focused on my tunnel vision of this is I have this idea, let me figure it out, you know, and two years will go by, you know. And then once you figure it out, you're like, okay, I'm comfortable enough with this. What's everyone else doing? You know what I mean? And then you're comfortable enough to go out into the world and open yourself, not just open yourself, but also accept that in, you know. Um, because it's hard sometimes too. Like at Elysium, we found that like we all came in with these different viewpoints and these different artistic ideas. And after a few years, a lot of our tattoos started looking like each other's tattoos, right? It's not that we were ripping each other off, it's that we were influenced by one another. And so you have to take what you've learned and take that inspiration and then sort of seclude again, you know, sort of sequester again and be like, okay, this is the idea. What is my act? Actual spin on this, right? It's like you get a meatball recipe and you're like, okay, how can I make my meatball special? You know what I mean? Meatballs always and so um I think it's it's the balance of all of it, truly, that um that you need to obtain. And and you also always have to keep in mind what your intentions actually are. Because throughout your career, your intentions are different, right? Sometimes in your career, you really want to travel and you want to see the world and you want to meet people. And then other times you're like, no, I want to focus on perfecting my technical. I want to focus on perfect. And so everyone goes through this journey and it's not lateral, you know what I mean? I don't think there's a straight trajectory that everyone goes down. I think it's sort of a web. And everyone goes different ways at different times and hits different points. And I think once you hit a lot of those points, you can see other tattooers and understand what point they're at when they're at it, and you can trust that process. You know what I mean? But don't ever feel pressured to do things you don't want to do. Um, but you also have to understand that sometimes the most uncomfortable thing to do is that step that's gonna bring you to that next level, right? Like there's an artist in my studio that's like, I hate doing conventions. I'm so bad at conventions. I'm and I'm like, well, how are you gonna get better at conventions if you don't do conventions? You're gonna avoid them for the rest of your entire life and just never get better at them? Or are you gonna put yourself in the thick of it and make yourself uncomfortable so you can learn? You know what I mean? It's like when you start going to the gym after not going to the gym for five years. It fucking sucks. It sucks. It's the worst. And then after a year, it's your routine, it's your habit because you forced yourself to level up in that way. And it all comes down to knowing yourself, you know. And so if you don't spend that time with yourself, then all of your opinions and all of your influence is other people's, not your own. And so you have to figure out who you are and and thus figure out what it is that you need to get to the level you want to get at. But everyone wants something different, you know what I mean? Your goals and your aspirations are gonna be different than mine, and everyone's are gonna be different. And we might all have the same ones, but they don't all happen at the same time, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um, that's beautiful. Well, one one one reason, and to kind of piggyback off that one reason why I admire Kevin so much is that because he's so beautiful. Look at him, very beautiful and handsome.
SPEAKER_06He's so cute, he is he's so cute.
SPEAKER_02Um, I admire him just so much, you know. I even just working, I've known him for for over 10 years, but now we've officially been working together three months, and it I've already learned so much from him. And one of the main things that I've picked up from him is that he's basically just like, if I know, and um this is not verbatim, of course, but it's like if I know that I'm fearful or scared of something, that is why I must do it. And it's just it's it's so powerful. Um, I don't think most people approach things like this, but I can appreciate him from that standpoint. It hasn't even inspired me to do things that um I don't I wouldn't necessarily do, you know, just right off rip. So yeah, it's uh it's a beautiful thing, man. You your flowers, there you go. Uh but um yeah, I I yeah, I agree with everything you said. It's very, very strong.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think it's humbling yourself to to understand that people are good at different things, right? And if somebody's really good at something, instead of jealousy or instead of envying them or whatever, learn from them. Humble yourself to learn from them, you know. Working at Elysium has humbled my ass because, you know, I I'm Ryan Ashley and all that shit. These motherfuckers could tattoo circles around me most days, right? They would whoop my fucking ass in a lot of stuff, right? That doesn't mean they're better than me at everything or I'm better than them. You just have to understand that um you you have to pick up little pieces throughout your whole life and and you and you can choose what you take with you, like I said, right? But instead of ever feeling intimidated or or any of that, you need to really come to terms with the areas that you could improve and humble yourself enough to have your eyes open enough to see who's doing it correctly and learn from them about that thing. I learn all of the time. Every collaboration I've ever done, do collaborations. Holy shit. Do collaborations, do them because you think you know how to tattoo until you do a collaboration, and then you're like, what am I doing?
SPEAKER_01Until you're right next to the person. It's just like, god damn. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_06And everyone is different. Every collab I've done, I've taken something from. Do collaborations and work with each other. You understand each other so much more, and it's such a give and take. Um, I don't think gatekeeping is necessarily the answer. I think you should protect what you what you've earned and everything, but it but why are you don't withhold shit? I'm not intimidated to tell people my whole process. You can watch me tattoo, I'll talk to you about it all day long. Because what do I think? You're gonna take my job, like take my fucking job. That'll force me to evolve. Then who am I next? Then what's my next step then? Right? Yeah, so don't ever be intimidated by growth like that. I think that's what happens is people are just scared of peaks and valleys. Yeah, peaks and valley, always.
SPEAKER_02I think when it comes to gatekeeping, just the other side is that I what I've experienced at first. I was the same way. It was like after owning a shop completely different, but I was just like, no, share knowledge, take this, learn this. Like we you evolve, we all evolve, but I think it's more so protecting, like you said, what we have because there are there are a lot of takers out there, you know. They just they want to know what you have and just run with it without even giving credit. But one of my mentors had told me, he said, you basically do it, you you don't change what you do, you do it for the people who are gonna cherish it and be grateful for it. You don't pick and choose who you give that information to.
SPEAKER_06But you also have to think that you can't stay in your comfort zone and identify with that either and think you're the only one that's ever going to be able to do it. And I think if people don't rip off your shit, then you're not doing a good job. If people are ripping off your shit, you're doing something right, and you should keep that going. You stop there and you stop evolving there because everyone figured out your formula, or do you make a new formula?
SPEAKER_01No, I love it. I love it. And on that note, I swear to God, these batteries are about to die. They're telling me these batteries are supposed to die.
SPEAKER_06We're done.
SPEAKER_01So, no, in real life, Ryan, in real life, I could literally talk to you for I mean, even when we talked, you confirming that you were gonna come, we were talking for like an hour. I said, you know what, let's let's pause this. Let's pause this and say for the show. But quite literally, you are like one of the most influential, inspirational, beautiful souls I have ever met being in this industry. Thank you. And like literally never change who you are, unless it's obviously you're gonna change, you know, change is always good, but who you are at your core, like please always say the same. I know you will.
SPEAKER_06You too. Yes, and that's why I'm here is because honestly, what I've learned through all of it is real knows real. Yeah, you know, deep down, trust your gut. Good people are good people, and when they show up for you, you show up for them. And that's that's harmony, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Yes, absolutely. Kumbaya, motherfucker.