Building Wealth Beyond Numbers: Empowering Behavioral Finance with Kevin Jenkins

Discover how understanding the psychology behind money decisions can transform financial health. Join host Coy Brown in conversation with Kevin Jenkins, a behavioral finance expert, who shares his journey from Detroit to becoming a financial advisor focused on intentional living and wealth building.

In this episode:

• Kevin Jenkins’ background from Detroit and early influences shaping his grit and resilience
• How sports and entrepreneurial experiences developed his discipline and identity
• The pivot from sports management to financial education focusing on behavioral finance
• Insights from Kevin’s roles at Fidelity, Merrill Lynch, and his own ventures
• The importance of understanding the brain's systems—fast (system 1) vs slow (system 2)—in decision-making
• How emotional and psychological roots influence financial behaviors more than math
• The gap in traditional financial advice: information vs transformation
• Kevin’s Behavioral Wealth Report: serving first-generation wealth builders and Millennials
• The significance of early financial literacy and creating community programs
• The emerging trends in financial demographics and shifting industry focus
• Practical frameworks for making better financial decisions: the Decision Stack
• The evolving field of financial therapy and Kevin’s plans to integrate neuroscience into coaching

Timestamps:

• 00:00 - Introduction: Building sustainable wealth
• 01:16 - Kevin’s background and mission
• 02:34 - Detroit’s influence on resilience
• 07:10 - Sports and financial identity
• 11:10 - Lessons from hustle culture
• 15:50 - Transition to behavioral finance
• 19:44 - College insights into finance
• 26:25 - Auto finance and behavior
• 32:41 - Evolution from marketing to finance
• 36:20 - Launching Behavioral Wealth Report
• 40:28 - Community for wealth builders
• 46:02 - Lessons from Fidelity and Merrill Lynch
• 55:07 - Behavioral biases and awareness
• 62:19 - Neuroscience in decision-making
• 67:29 - Enhancing coaching with neuroscience
• 72:19 - Understanding financial behavior
• 75:51 - Coherence Performance Method
• 78:45 - Early financial education
• 83:08 - Trends in wealth management
• 88:08 - Financial literacy for kids
• 92:09 - Emotional learning in finance
• 98:55 - Building a life that pulls you
• 103:44 - Advice for wealth builders
• 109:20 - Connecting with Kevin
• 111:27 - Final reflection

Resources & Links:

• Behavioral Wealth Report
• Decision Stack Worksheet (Download link in show notes)
• Mental Edge Coherence Diagnostic (Start here and DM me directly for the Coherence Program)

Connect with Kevin Jenkins:

• Website: kevinnjenkins.com (send him a message, mention code LIFEISPOD10 for 10% off his services)
• LinkedIn: Kevin Jenkins
• Instagram: kevintheplanner_

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Life Is Podcast, where creativity, culture, mindset, and intentional living come together through real conversation. I'm your host, Cloy Brown. Each week I sit down with entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, travelers, and visionaries who didn't stumble into a life they love, they built it. We go deep into how they think, how they reconstructed themselves, and what became possible on the other side. This is not just about what people have accomplished, it's about the internal work that made it sustainable. Because when you build from the inside out, life expands. Let's get into it. Today, we're joined by Kevin Jenkins, a financial educator, entrepreneur, and the voice behind the Behavioral Wealth Report. A native Detroiter who grew up playing sports, went off to college, earned both a sports management and business degree. He spent a majority of his early career working within marketing in the sports industry, and during the pandemic, shifted into starting a career within the financial planning industry. Not because he was lost, but to start a runway to build the life he actually wanted. He specializes in developing financial education, centered around behavioral finance, and he helps Gen Z, millennials, and first generation wealth builders understand why they make financial decisions and how to build better systems for long-term wealth. His work focuses heavily on closing the wealth gap and creating programs for schools, youth organizations, and communities that lack financial literacy education. Here's what that looked like from the inside. Well, hey, good afternoon, Kevin. I uh I appreciate you coming on the Life Is podcast for another episode and another uh adventure, but also another journey to hear about your story, what you've been through, what you've done, and um, you know, how you created this life, that is, right, um, what it is now and what you're feeling on the back end. But um just great to have you here uh for the listeners to have you uh get on the show here and um you know hope hoping's going well for you. But uh how's how's life going for you? How are you feeling today?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I'm doing great, man. And first of all, I want to send your flowers. You know, I want to want to tell you congratulations on uh getting this podcast, you know, up and running. I know it was something you were working on for a while, and I think uh the life is it really is a snapshot of you know how we live life each and every day and the decisions that we make. So uh just sending you your flowers, man. You know, I love the work that you're putting in, and my day is going good. You know, it's it's a nice, beautiful day um here in McKinney, Texas. You know, it's about 90 degrees, and uh just grateful, man, you know, uh to be here with you, to share this moment, uh, to hear more about uh just everything that you're building and and sharing my journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. Man, I love that you're uh you're giving us some time to hear about your story, and I appreciate the kind words as well. Uh for the viewers, you know, I know Kevin outside of here as well, but uh the ironic thing is that he had his own podcast a few years a few years ago, so now it's full circle. Now I'm in the in the you know seat questioning him uh about his life and what he's done, so it's just kind of funny to see that come around. Kevin, if you can, uh, you know, before we got before we dive into everything and about your history and your background, if you can, just tell the viewers um, you know, who you are, right? Where you're from, uh where you're building right now, uh, if there's anything in the arsenal now, and then what brought you up to this, up to this point now in your life.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Of course, of course. So um a little bit about myself, you know, I am born and raised uh from Detroit, Michigan. Um, me and Corey, we actually went to school with each other in college at Bowling Green State University. So a lot of our, you know, early relationship was I kind of known him, you know, being on uh the football team, you know, at BGSU. And at the time I was studying sports management and we had other mutual connections with friends, and that's kind of how we first initially met. But just kind of taking it back to growing up in the inner city of Detroit, Michigan, man, um, it really has molded me into the man that I am today. You know, you talk about a city um that is known, you know, as the motor city, you know, blue-collar workers, um, you know, uh just that mentality of resilience, of grit. Uh, I think a lot of that is what is in just my DNA. And, you know, I come from a two-parent household, was blessed with two parents that were very involved in my life. My dad, you know, he worked for uh this Michigan State Department of Transportation uh for like 30 plus years. And my mom, um, she still is an English teacher. She's coming up on her 30th year of teaching, and uh she uh teached the majority of her career at Martin Luther King High School in downtown Detroit. They really instilled in me the importance of just education at a very uh early age. Um, just understand the importance of hard work, really going for what you want in life. And um, I think also my sister, I have a younger sibling. Um, we're about two and a half years apart, and uh she'll actually be 30 years old this year. Just growing up, you know, she was very instrumental uh in just encouraging me, whether it was through sports or um, you know, through me uh doing things in my community entrepreneurship-wise, uh, to push me, you know, beyond my capacity. And, you know, I think um I went to two different high schools uh growing up, and I got a chance to see two different sides. I grew up in a town called Raffer, Michigan, um, which is about um, I would say, maybe about uh 30 minutes from the city from downtown Detroit. And then my last two years of high school um was I went to Martin Luther King High School where my mom actually taught. And I always make jokes with people that, you know, I think it was because she wanted to keep more of an eye on me. Because I wasn't, I wasn't the best kid. You know, I early on, man, believe it or not, I got in a lot of fights. Uh, I was very, you know, just could be volatile, you know, and it was over time, you know, me just kind of learning about myself, um, getting involved with different things, whether it was sports or getting uh more educated on things that I wanted to do after high school, it kind of helped me slow down from that type of life, man. But um, as far as like where it has brought me, you know, today, um, currently, right now, you know, I'm a financial educator and you know, I actually have um a newsletter called the Behavioral Wealth Report, um, where I talk a lot about financial decision making and really helping people understand how their behavior and their habits have more of a bigger impact on their life than just kind of knowing where to invest or knowing what to do with money. Um, so, you know, that's kind of what I'm doing now and uh just wanting to help bridge the the close the racial wealth gap with getting more in my community, um, getting involved with schools um and youth organizations to try to talk more about financial literacy and uh you know that's kind of just discussing a little bit more of you know what what my upbringing was and kind of what it what it has brought me here today.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah. No, thank you. I appreciate that. You really kind of gave us a whole gamut and uh I want to unpack a lot there. Uh it's funny because you said you you uh used to get in a lot of fights, you know, as I'm listening. I'm like, for those who are are listening too, I I I you know, I know Kevin, so I wouldn't expect that, right? He has a cool demeanor, real laid back. So, you know, it's it was just kind of you know funny to hear that. But speaking of Detroit, right, where you grew up in the inner city, because it is definitely a blue-collar city, um, maybe something to touch on is before we move forward is like, what did it give you, right? And maybe what did it demand of you being in inner city, um, and just you as an individual beyond, you know, family and your sister being supported, but what did that city maybe give you or demand of you as you were growing up?

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah, man. So I think, you know, what what it gave me is uh just a willingness to really work hard for what I wanted to accomplish. So, you know, I know uh there were different moments in my life where I got certain glimpses of entrepreneurship. You know, my mom, um, I give all thanks to her because I want to say when I was like nine or ten years old, um, I was the type of kid going down the block asking neighbors, can I um, you know, mow your lawn? Can I, you know, help shovel your snow? Um, and I think the reason why it demanded that of me is because, you know, I you talk about a city where um it really requires, you know, you to go beyond your circumstances. As a lot of people already know, the city had a period of time where the city was one of the highest rates, you know, when it came to murders. Um, there were a lot of communities that um from a real estate standpoint where it's not nowhere as near as nice as what it is now. So I think a lot of that grit and that hard work usually comes from um a point of where a lot of people were at the lowest points, you know, especially when you think about the Great Recession, they had a profound impact on the city of Detroit. And I think now the city looks so much differently because we had to rise above that adversity. And I think as I look at that in my own life, I had a lot of adversity early on because, you know, my financial, my parents weren't as financially well off. So there were a lot of opportunities that I had to take to do entrepreneurship to be able to pay for certain things. So that's where a lot of that going up the street, going up the block, asking neighbors, could I do this and that. Um, you know, also my mom, when I got into middle school, she encouraged me to sell candy. Um, so I was one of those kids that had my backpack. You know, we used to come into school uh and used to sell everything from hot Cheetos to fruit punches to uh whatever you can think of, Snicker bars. And I just will never forget the moments with my mom every weekend on Sundays going with me to Costco and just kind of saying, okay, you can you can buy these amount of items. This is how you should price it. And I think, man, it it really, and it really, um, when I look back at it, I can see why I do some of the things that I do now from my entrepreneurship, because at a very early age, um, I was getting exposure to it. And I think it was just um the mist of coming from a city where we deal with a lot of adversity, and whether it was in my own family or what I saw in my environment, um, I wanted to shoot for more. I wanted to become more of myself, and I did want to become a statistic. So um I think that's what I would say when it came to, you know, what it brought out of me and what it demanded me, uh demanded of me from an early age.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah, man, that was uh a great, great answer because I feel like, you know, Detroit definitely gets that hustler, you know, culture in a sense, right? You gotta hustle more to your point beyond your circumstances, you gotta find a way, right? But at the same time, it was beautiful to hear because your mom was kind of almost kind of your manager, right? Like an entrepreneurial manager, so hey, this is how you're gonna sell candy, Cheetos, right, juices. Um, but that was any way you could get it, right? It was like, here, let's just try to create something beyond what I'm dealing with right now. And um just seeing that foundation be laid at a young age. So that's that's um, you know, that's that's it's valuable in itself. So I want to keep moving forward here, Kevin, and you know, what you didn't touch on and we'll dive into is obviously you were into sports, right? As as you went into high school, you were very uh heavily involved in sports growing up. You know, what did athletics um you know possibly give you that nothing else in your formation could, um, maybe in terms of discipline, identity, um, or how to handle pressure, right? Teamwork. Uh, how did you think sports kind of translated or um, you know, kind of affected maybe you in a in a in a positive light?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, so I think sports, it definitely gave me structure, uh, definitely taught me a lot about discipline, you know, accountability, and how to perform under pressure. You know, I know we talked about this offline um as we were getting prepared, you know, for this podcast. And, you know, my father was very instrumental, you know, in having me in every different sport that you could think of. So I did everything from soccer to baseball, uh, to football to basketball. My dad even put me in karate and learning about self-defense. And I think all of those things really molded me to have that discipline of when you are having a certain work ethic, just like with anything in life, whether you're going to school or you're working a job or you're in sports, um, just having that discipline to be consistent, doing something each and every day, and really working towards getting the end result. You know, whether it was um, you know, me participating in basketball and wanting to have the teamwork and the camaraderie to win a game, you know, or even when it came to karate, um, when it I had to learn about self-defense and knowing how to protect myself and how this could be applied in the in the real world. And I think more importantly, like anything in life, um, it gives you an identity. And, you know, it kind of sits as the uh foundation that helps you to be able to mold to something that builds your character, you know, that just builds who you are as a person. And I think, you know, that's a lot of what I talk about now, you know, when it comes to uh just financial education is how really identity it drives behavior. And I think whether it's in sports or even finances, um, how you see yourself influences the decisions you make. So I think how I saw myself as an athlete at a very early age, it shaped my identity of wanting to go to school and have a sports management degree. Uh wanting to, at a very early age, I had aspirations of going to the NBA. Um, so I think the identity in sports, it has those hitting influences that impact your decision making further in life that you may not even anticipate for, but it's just the routine and the patterns of things that you do each and every day, it plays a role in the psychology of the decisions you make moving forward. So I would say that's what sports did for me, and I'm tremendously grateful for the experiences because it definitely has shaped me into the man of who I am today.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, man, you hit it on the head. I think I d yeah, identity, behavior follows identity, right? It becomes who you are. And um, you know, even the simple tasks of whatever sports you're into, even the classroom, right? I jokingly think of Mr. Miyagi, right? Wash on, wash off, right? Put the jacket on, put the jacket off. But all those small steps help and be, you know, mold you to who you're gonna become today. And they have a lasting effect that we may not see in the moment, but it shows up into you know a young adulthood and then also into when you become a a full adult. So yeah, yeah, you're uh you're spot on there, man. When when we kind of move forward here, you went into obviously BG, we we went to school together there uh in Ohio. So you you talked about right wanting to go because of sports, you you got into sports management, right? And you graduated with that and a business degree. Um, you know, some may look at that as a as a very specific, you know, path, you know, coming from someone from Detroit, uh, I'm in a sports background. What were you envisioning at that point? Like, what did you think your life was gonna look like when you walked across the stage? Because I think all of us have an envision of like, you know, as soon as I graduate, I'm gonna do this, right? I'm gonna become that. You know, what was that maybe vision look like, you know, for for you when you graduated, got your degrees, and now you're like, hey, I'm I'm graduating, I'm going to the real world.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, man. So when I got done with uh, you know, my undergrad degree at BG, you know, I had that sports management, you know, background with a marketing uh minor. Uh, I really wanted to go into marketing within professional athletics. So a lot of the roles that I shot for was trying to be like um working in an entry-level marketing position, like as a marketing assistant with a long-term vision of being like a director of marketing or working as a head of business development um for a professional athletic team. And I would, I think early on, the reason why I had that direction is because um I just really love the business aspect of sports. You know, whether it was marketing or branding, um, I knew that I had a great background in it, and it was something that I could be able to mesh between business and sports. And I think everything just from the energy, the environment, and the culture around sports um was what intrigued me to it. And I think coming from Detroit with an athletic background similar to what we just talked about, that path really made sense. And it felt aligned with who I was at the time. But what I didn't realize was I was more drawn to how people think and respond than just the industry itself. So even in like marketing, for instance, you know, I was always interested in the courses I took in consumer behavior because it was really allowing me to understand how people think, how your own social economic class can impact your buying decisions, and really just looking at some of the hidden, uh, the hidden choices that are not always top of mind, you know, when we are being influenced by an advertisement and things like that. So I think at that stage, you know, I thought I wanted to build a career in sports, but really what I when I look back and I look at myself now, you know, I was really intrigued about developing a foundation and understanding behavior. But at the time, I didn't just have the language for it yet. But I think that going to BG, it helped me out a lot with just trying to get a foundation of a certain trajectory. And I did get some great experience working in marketing and business development and sports, which we'll talk about. But long after that point, it brought me into what I'm doing today now, which is financial planning. So um that's what I would say, you know, to that it to that question as far as what I decided I wanted to do when I first got done with school.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah. Um, and it's it's always wild. I feel like, you know, nowadays, you know, we're we're millennials, but I feel like a lot of people, and I'm not saying everyone, but a broad stroke, you know, you go for one thing and you end up realizing, you know, you like something else, right? There's something that also pulls at your heart or something that you feel you're more inclined to. You know, I jokingly say I think all sports people, you go to school, you want to play sports, and uh, you know, either go to sports management or, you know, uh physical therapy, something with with sports related, right? Because to your point, you thought you could, you know, you blend it, right? You've played the sport. Now when you're in the business world, it's like I've been there, I can relate to you. Um, I have the experience and the knowledge. But, you know, it's uh life changes, right? Things pivot and uh you move forward. But it sounds like you know, you found that while after school and that BG. Um and even speaking at bowling green, you you kind of got a little bit of exposure. We, as you said, we talked offline about finance. Um, one of your freshman courses uh that you took kind of you know kind of planted the seed. Um, you know, what did you see in that environment that maybe you know piqued your interest, um, even though you didn't even act on it at that moment immediately. Um, at that moment.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah, so I'll I'll never forget the professor's name. Um, I took a uh introductory to business administration. Her name was uh Dr. Patricia Garlitz. And uh it was my first experience to understanding like what this world of business was. It was honestly one of my first courses ever. You know, I I've I've had some other experiences, which I've told you with um accounting internships. When I was uh growing up in high school, um my dad had me in the internship um with one of his his friends, but it wasn't as high level as what this course was. And what it really gave me the foundation was to really start thinking like how a business thinks from everything from an income statement and and being able to look at what your income is and your expenses and being to identify growth versus net income and what does your cash flow look month to month? You know, what are your margins, which is basically the difference between uh what it costs for you to produce something and what you sell it for. So I think it really gave me the foundation of like, man, this is a whole nother world that I never got exposure into. And it allowed me to get a glimpse of starting to dive in and do my own knowledge around investing and uh learning about business planning and really just asking my own questions of, you know, why isn't this more widely understood? And I think it wasn't necessarily that I immediately wanted to pursue finance, but what it did was it created the awareness and it made me realize that you know there is a system, you know, behind finance. And if you understand it, um you can be able to move much more differently. And at the same time, you know, I also noticed another thing was that even though some of the concepts um may seem Seem simple to some people. Um, there still are a lot of people that struggle, you know, with how to apply them. And I think that that's what stuck with me. And I didn't act on it right away, but that probably was the first moment where I saw the gap between just information and behavior, and that's really the gap that I focus on today.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah. You know, you're you're saying obviously you've seen the gap of you know simple topics and people applying it. I feel like that's the biggest thing is like we can know something, even if we don't know it, but applying it, so that's that's a whole nother thing. And it sounds elementary, but actually putting it to work is is another thing. And then also taking that information and what does that mean, right? How do we compute this, quantify it, and package it so we can actually use it right in our everyday lives. So, no, I appreciate you sharing that story um of you know where that kind of came about and where that that seed kind of grew uh for you throughout class. So you uh like you said we you graduated, right, sports management, you gained um gained some experience actually in sports training and running market uh marketing campaigns for differ athletic programs. Um in that time, like what did you or I guess we what did it what did that world teach you about communication, uh branding, and how to reach people? And then lastly, my question to that, Kevin, is like at what point did you realize it wasn't like your final destination, right? You were getting this experience, you learned some information, but then you know, what when was that time or what did you learn um when it was the kind of realization that, hey, I might have to pivot?

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah, so I know when I first got out of school, um, I took an internship uh to be a sports trainer um for a company called Impact Basketball Academy, where I basically was training um athletes that were coming out of high school, they were approaching to try to play college basketball, um, or even maybe pursue other opportunities, whether traveling basketball with um uh a lot of a lot of different um uh companies that specialize in it. And um it definitely gave me a lot of good experience, you know, with just knowing how to motivate uh younger men, you know, helping them understand the importance of like discipline, accountability, um, understanding how nutrition, you know, played a tremendous role uh with their training and making sure that they were um putting in the same uh effort outside of the gym as they were inside of the gym. And I think that experience was tremendously helpful for me, you know, when it came to just communication, leadership, um, just my own personal development. And shortly after that opportunity, um I decided to move back home. Um, and when I uh was living in Michigan with my parents at the time, and that's where I got a lot of good experience, you know, with fan marketing. So I actually worked in collegiate athletics for Oakland University as a uh marketing intern. And I did everything from being able to run, help run uh marketing campaigns for all of the various different sports, between basketball, uh soccer, and even football. Um I helped out a lot with just on uh in-game displays, whether it was uh helping to control the soundboard whenever we were doing advertisements or they were doing intros for the athletes. And I think a lot of whether it was me running a marketing campaign or working with athletes, um I quickly realized that, you know, people don't necessarily respond to information, but they respond to connection. And I think with anything in life, you know, you have to really understand your audience, you know, what they care about, what motivates them, and what makes them act. And I started to see those same principles apply in a lot of different areas of life. And whether it was me trying to get someone to engage into uh a training program or even trying to encourage um a team of directors to move forward with a marketing campaign, it wasn't really necessarily me telling them what to do, but it was about how to frame it. And I think over time, um, I really started to feel a shift and I enjoyed the work, but I found myself more interested and wanting to gravitate more and to trying to get back into that business role uh in athletics where it was kind of playing more of a role in the decision-making process behind people's actions than the actual income. So I think it was that curiosity that um allowed me to end up going back to school to try to do something to learn a little bit more as far as business courses. But there were some things I did a little bit before that that kind of gave me an entry point when it came to finance and being able to expand my understanding of it um before I went back to school.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, I love what you said too. That was like the the key thing is connection. And once again, this kind of goes back to psychology, right? Now getting to psychology of how people relate, connect, and absorb information. It wasn't so much maybe about the message or how you approached it, um, but it was really about the connectivity between um the individual or your clients or the people you were trying to target. And um that really kind of stuck out, so that's important. Um, but once again, tied back to your your financial or your um uh psychology kind of uh tie-in. So I I I want to kind of move forward a little bit here too, because you know, as you pivoted, which I think is good, I think we're kind of seeing there's little seeds almost like within your story, little seeds that kind of open the door there. Um, but you kind of pivoted, right? You ended up from we spoke offline TD TD Auto Finance, where you were kind of reviewing and processing loan applications with dealerships across the world. You know, most people would call that a detour sidestep, whatever you want to call it. Um, what did sitting with that kind of financial data um teach you about relationships between behavior and financial decision making?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah, man. Um TD Auto Finance, that that wasn't uh that wasn't part of the plan. And so it definitely, it definitely was a detour. You know, honestly, as any college student, um, you know, when you are out of school, you're in your early 20s, and you you're trying to find a way to make a way, um sometimes you have to take opportunities that you you may not necessarily, it may not be aligned in your career path, but you still got to put food on the table, you still got bills to pay. So it it definitely was an opportunity that I didn't expect. Um, but I'm grateful for it because it actually is what created the the the uh the entry point for me wanting to go back to school and get my MBA. Um but while I was at TD Auto Finance, like you said, I was a funding operations associate where my role was to review hundreds of auto loan applications across North America, and I would communicate with dealerships on whether they needed a uh title for a customer or they needed um uh certain documents to process the auto loan application. It was really uh my job as an operator to review those documents, uh, make sure that we were communicating uh with our internal teams to make sure that all of those documents were brought forth, even like when it came to credit applications. I didn't necessarily have to review the credit applications. We had credit analysts that did that, but I would have to communicate with a credit analyst and say, like, okay, well, um what is the this uh likelihood of this auto loan being processed based on this customer's credit worthiness? And they would either give me the green light or say um they weren't able to approve them for the loan, and then I would go back to the dealership and communicate it. So it definitely gave me uh a lot of uh good understanding um with just operations, uh just business development, being able to build those relationships with dealerships. And it was a role that really for me was beyond just processing loans, but it helped me to really understand behavior and real time. So really just noticing the patterns, you know, whether it was I get on the phone with a credit analyst and they say, well, you know, this uh this particular client's debt-to-income ratio is is so high, they're not going to be in a financial position to be able to maintain this loan. It was that type of language where I'm like, oh, what is a debt-to-income ratio? Things like little uh words that I hadn't been exposed to, it definitely helped me to be able to understand. A lot of times when it comes to people making decisions, it can be really emotional, you know, and they could be trying to buy all alone to stretch beyond their means and have a card note that is something that they can't even afford. But it's just the mindset of having an internal money belief of money status, where you want the things that you buy to be shown off of what your net worth is, whether it's your clothes, your shoes, your cars, your houses. So understanding money beliefs and like how that impacts certain things that I was seeing there was intriguing. And it really clicked for me, you know, working in that role that, you know, it's not necessarily that um the problems that we have with finances only come down to math, but it's more of the decisions that we make is is often what is is aligning with the uh not making the right decision. And I think that's really the gap there is, you know, um between the numbers and also the decisions, um, the gap is really the behavioral finance uh concept. And that was kind of some of the things that I started to pick up on while I was there, uh just kind of learning about different things and and how it wanted me to go back to school so I could learn it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, I mean, from from what it sounds like, there's a lot of experience, right? You're gaining all this information, all this intel. Like I said, even though it was a sidestep, you were still gaining in that moment valuable information, valuable knowledge to help you, you know, now you're in your world now. Uh when you when you kind of went back, right, because you went back, obviously this piqued your interest, you wanted to get back more the business aspect, uh, maybe of sports, right, at that time. When you went back to get your MBA from BG in sports management, you actually took a lot of finance and accounting courses. Um, how did that experience shape you into wanting to pres pursue a career in uh within the business aspects of sports? And when did that, you know, for you start to change to kind of lead more into like you know finance itself?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, so um I ended up pursuing to get my MBA in sports management at Florida Atlantic uh University. And at the time when I ended up going back to school, I was still wanting to shoot for those roles where I could work in marketing, business development, finance, within athletics. And with Florida being such a uh a big city when it came to sports, and there's a lot of business uh companies out there that focus on uh sports management. Um, I felt like it was in alignment with what I wanted to do. You know, the program that I was in was one of the top programs throughout all of the U.S. So it really felt like I was moving in the trajectory of what I wanted to accomplish, you know, of whether it was working in marketing or business development. Um, but I think getting exposure to uh financial analysis courses and accounting and learning about global business management, supply chain operations, you know, these different courses help motive me to really thinking about a world just beyond sports and how a lot of these things translate into just everyday life, you know, when it comes to um just understanding your own financial planning, you know, and being able to look at how you're balancing your own budget or how you evaluate your own credit and thinking of like starting a business. I think another reason why I got the MBA is because I always saw myself as an entrepreneur. And anytime that I would uh rub shoulders with other people that had MBAs, um, they had their own companies. And I think an MBA is great because it really gives you the foundation of things that you would have to do as a business owner, whether it's accounting, finance, operations, supply chain, marketing. So I learned all of these things. And yes, there were experiences that I got. I worked with the Miami Dolphins and Gang Day Operations. I worked for ESPN and uh was a marketing intern, but I think it was really the pandemic that shifted a lot for me, where I it gave me the opportunity to really slow down and say, well, Kev, I know you've always followed this path of wanting to work in sports, but I think it was the exposure that I got through these different courses. Um, I really started to think through like how can I apply this and starting my own company. And I think that was the pandemic was just a great, uh, a great opportunity to slow down. And I think, you know, overall, the NBA, it definitely helped reinforce the path I was moving in with sports. But I think over time, it really exposed me to something deeper, and that was really trying to think through um how I could build something that was going to be long-term beyond just the coursework that I was doing. And I think that was really where the shift began for me.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Yeah, man, things are starting, things are starting to roll on. And if you can, for the listeners, what where where were you at? Was this 2019, 2012?

SPEAKER_01 36:06

So I I yeah, so I was uh I got my MBA. I was in school between January 2018 and December of 2019. So literally right when I got done with school, the pandemic came in March of 2020.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah, almost, yeah, it's crazy, almost to today, about a about a week or two ago, a couple years back. Um so yeah, man, so the obvious the pandemic hit. I feel like that was crazy for a lot of people, right? I mean, life was to most of us, you know, shut down. But the pandemic hit, the pandemic hits. Um, and it sounds like, right, from from what we spoke about, you use this time to get your life insurance, right, licensed, yeah, and you passed it by the summer, right, by June 2020. And then you joined Fidelity, which you'll talk about in November of that same year. Um as you said, most people experience pandemics. Some are good, some are bad. Some people maybe thought it was a momentum loss, uh, but you treated as a runway to obviously launch you into what you wanted to get it, get into. What what was like the internal decision that made that possible?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Yeah, man. So I think, like you said, the pandemic, it gave everyone the opportunity to really sit at home, slow down. Um, you know, we weren't no longer in a world where we had to commute the work. Everything shifted tremendously to work from home. And I think at that time I did a lot of soul searching, you know, everything that brought me up to that point was like what we've talked about was me wanting to pursue a career in sports and working in business at the business aspects, whether it was marketing, business development, or finance. But I think another challenging part of working in sports is that you don't get paid a lot, and not to say I'm I'm not driven by behind money, but what I'm saying is to get to the level that I wanted to get to, it was going to take a lot of years. And it takes a lot of time working in maybe entry-level roles where um your worth or your compensation, you're not uh being compensated what you feel you are worth. So I think in sports, it's a lot of work, but you don't get paid as much. And I think that I wanted to be rewarded from the effort that I was putting in, whether it was, as we are talking about me uh taking that time to get my life insurance license and starting the trajectory of working at Fidelity and eventually getting my other security licenses. I wanted to really put myself in the driver's seat to be able to design the life that I wanted to create. So I think that it was a moment for me where I got a lot of clarity and actually the birth of Insightful Principles. We talk about our podcast, my podcast that I had and how everything coming full circle for all the viewers, Roy Brown was one of the first guests that I had on Insightful Principles in 2020. Um the birth of that, you know, really came out of the pandemic and it was a domino effect because for me, I always wanted to create something that can help the black community, um, that can help bridge the racial wealth gap. Because, you know, I think that there's a lot of uh there's a lot of uh just plights and challenges that we go through for resources to accessibility to capital, um, to just all types of uh discriminations that have hindered the black community for years uh prior, whether it was Black Wall Street or things where resources were decimated. And I really sat down and I said, you know what, I want to create uh a financial literacy uh platform that I can help educate other people, and I wanted to start a career with it. So, you know, I think for me, man, it was really just asking myself a real question of, you know, am I building something, you know, that's aligned with the life I actually want or just following a path that makes sense on paper? And I think that that's where I decided to say, I want to be able to choose the path where it's intentional, where it's a life that I actually want. And I didn't want to necessarily stay in a space that I was comfortable in, and I wanted to really move toward something that challenged me and helped me to have a long-term impact. So, you know, I think getting those licenses, um, it really created the momentum, man, that really brought me into getting the opportunity with Fidelity later on that year.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Yeah. Um you said basically, you know, you wanted to go after what you wanted, not something on paper. And for those who are listening and maybe listened to the last couple podcasts, I think a common thread, you just like nailed it on the head because, you know, I feel like everyone who spoke on this podcast talked about not it may look that what they were doing looked great on paper, but that's not what they really wanted. And you know, there had to become a shift, right? There had to be something that they wanted to do more um to actually live the life that they wanted. And I think that's so common um amongst all type of people, but I want to at least point that out because I feel like that was just a nail on the head throughout all the guests that came on that they um you know they wanted more, they wanted to do more. And I also too want to point out, I don't think, even to your point, you wanted to be paid now, right? You know, I think you go into business, you don't want to get paid, you know, next year for the work you did today. You want to get paid now. So, you know, I don't think anything's wrong with, hey, I want to get, I want to show my efforts, I want to get paid now, and be in the driver's seat. Um, you know, there's good logic behind that, you know. So I don't think uh that's wrong, but I totally I totally agree there. So my my next question for you, Kevin, is uh you moved to Fidelity, right? You're at Fidelity and you moved in kind of more of like a customer service role, right? Into like a licensed workplace, kind of planning consultant role, um, advising on retirement accounts and investment investment portfolios. What did the environment teach you about um like financial planning at a scale? And you know, what did it show you about the gap between institution what institutions offer like Fidelity and what clients actually need?

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Yeah, that's a great question, Coi. So, you know, Fidelity was definitely a uh just a wealth of information. You know, it that was my first time, uh, first company I worked for where I got exposed to this world of just retirement planning and um understanding how 401k plans work and and getting exposure to um understanding the asset allocation, which for the viewers that may not know what that term means, it's just really the construction of how a portfolio is put together, whether you're investing in stocks or or bonds or commodities. And I think what it showed me at scale was really that it's levels, man. You know, just like anything in life, you know, I I started a lot of my beginning investing and journey uh with like little small platforms like Robin Hood. Um, not to say it's nothing against any of those platforms, but I think I got exposure into what it really means to invest with a broker dealer and having a brokerage account and getting exposed to all of the research that uh they do on the institutional side that is getting you uh an understanding of how the world works globally and how uh other farm managers are going about managing money. So I think at scale, um, it definitely showed me that. But I think what I saw with the gap between what institutions offer and what clients actually need is that oftentimes when I worked in a role such as as a workplace planning consultant, um, there were great tools in place, there were great products, you know, for us to tell the client what to do and say, you know, there's a gap here. You want to retire at this age, but you only need this certain amount of money. But there wasn't any behavioral coaching behind it. And Fidelity's not really in the business to really focus on those specific aspects as far as their consultants to uh get. Behavioral finance coaching to clients. But I think on the other side of that coin, you had people that were overwhelmed, that were stressed, that were unsure on, well, how exactly you're telling me I need to save this for retirement. But what are maybe some of the biases that I have, you know, internally to stop me from doing that, you know, whether it's um delayed versus uh instant gratification and being able to understand how a lot of times we have present bias, which is simply we are more focused on an immediate reward than we are of a long-term reward. So we want the pleasure of things now rather than the pain of waiting for something that is 10 or 15 years down the line. So, how do we optimize and make it easier and automate our decision making where it can make us more encouraged to want to make the decision of I need to do this because I want to make sure 15 or 20 years down the line from now, it's in alignment with who I am as a person and the maybe the legacy that I want to live, leave for uh my loved ones or someone in my family. So I think that the industry was really optimized for information, but it's not optimized for transformation. And I think that that's where I started to want to think how can I maybe put myself in a different financial advising role where I can have more autonomy over the conversation, where it's just not retirement or it's just not investments, but we can start to talk about other elements and bringing in behavior and talking about decision making. And I think that that's why I eventually left the company. But while I was there, I I learned so much. And honestly, I give all thanks to Fidelity because um I wouldn't be licensed right now without them. Um so um definitely, definitely grateful, but it definitely showed me that there's still a lot more work uh to do when it comes to um just the education and the help people when it comes to financial planning.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yeah, I mean it sounds like you saw you saw a niche, right? You saw you saw something within the industry that wasn't really, you know, and correct me wrong, probably wasn't even there, or it's not there. It's not even something that they maybe even want they put interest in into. So it's like you found something that um is needed, right? And you want to fill that need, and based on your experience, like you could feel that need. And I I want to be that person to help advocate, uh, you know, uh train and also give that knowledge to people so they can bet have better buying decisions and once again the psychology of what to do based on their behaviors and their understandings and identity um going forward. So obviously you you love Fidelity, um, right? Once again, you're you're just like you're growing, right? You're you continue to expand, you get to Merrill Lynch. Um, and Merrill Lynch required you to build and really manage your own book of clients through prosper proactive prospecting. Um, you know, that was kind of you know a fundamentally different skill from advising, which is you know, building. What did that experience teach you about business development, right? Drumming up business and in your own capacity uh to create something from um from your own effort.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Yeah, man, it was definitely a shift for me because at Fidelity, like you said, things were kind of just given to me. Uh we had clients calling in and we were going through retirement planning and doing other things around retirement and investment analysis, but when I really got a mural, I had to really eat what I killed, you know. I had to really think through uh how can I, and you know, I don't mean that in the literal sense, but um just I had to really go out and get it, you know, and I had to every day kind of set my prospecting book and say, like, okay, I'm gonna make 30 calls, um, and this is my objective, you know, is to encourage someone to want to come in, sit down with me, and have a holistic financial planning conversation. And it definitely challenged me from a business development standpoint because up to that point, um I developed the skill of helping people and understanding their situation and helping them guide to make a certain decision. But I think in Merrill, it really introduced me a different question, which is can you create an opportunity in the first place? Like, how are you going to build the book of business? How are you going to deal with rejection? How are you going to communicate your value of why someone should make you their advisor? And I think just having to build relationships from nothing where it's just a cold call to building a relationship of them coming in and learning about their goals, their family, their circumstances, and their needs to establishing a long-term financial planning relationship, it's a whole different ballgame. And I think that it wasn't a guaranteed pipeline either. So it was really driven by my effort. And I think that what, like anything in life, you know, I think business development really teaches you about belief. Like, do you believe in yourself? Do you believe like in your capabilities that you can really bring forth from your mind and your imagination to what you want your reality to be? And I think that I had to program myself to think like, look, you're going to hear more no's than you are going to hear yeses, and you're going to have moments where nothing is going to happen. But I think that I kept telling myself, you know, can you stay consistent without immediate results? And I think Merrill Lynch really helped me with my capacity. And now, you know, I deal with rejection like it's the most beautiful thing ever. Like, you know, someone says no to me, it's like I've seen a thousand no's. Like, it's not me. Um, the the capacity of rejection that I have inside of me now, um, I think that my purpose and my mission outweighs the negativity of that is that, you know, I think the best way that you can overcome any rejection for those out there that's in sales, um, that's any in any form of business where you're having to sell yourself is just to keep going. And just understand that having perseverance, uh, having some resolve, you know, having a firm determination to accomplish something, nothing can beat that, you know. And as long as you keep going, um, you will reach that end goal that you're searching for. So I think that throughout that experience, I really realized that I could create something from scratch, you know, not because that, you know, everything worked perfectly, but because, you know, I was willing to keep showing up. And I think that's what really gave me a different level of confidence of not just advising in the role that I was with at Fidelity, but really just building something from the ground up when I was at Merrill Lynch.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Yeah, I uh I commend you, you know, as a friend, man. I I definitely commend you because I think people don't see the behind the scenes of what that looks like, right? You know, even for insurance, I can relate. You know, I'm laughing in my head because to your point, you have to create the opportunity. You know, some of the some of these people you have in your book of business, some are just brand new leads that you get, right? And whether you're trying to offer another life or health or supplemental health or different policies, um you know, not only do you have to have the emotional buy-in in the beginning, but then you have to present the logic of trying to get them to to work with you or even want to take that product. So yeah, you really have to get creative. I think, you know, what I've learned is the delivery, right? How you deliver the message that makes sense to them, right? And also placing them mentally in a position where where this product would make sense, right? The features and benefits of what it'd be for you rather than just naming off information. So I commend you because I know it's not that's that's hard. And I think in financial world, it's even harder because it's taboo, it's money, it's you know, people people want to hold on to it. Um, they don't want to talk about it uh through generations. And um, yeah, man, I just want to say I commend you from from that story, just kind of picking up on what you were doing. And you do, you learn, man. Like I said, you know, you learn if you can believe in yourself and and staying in there. So for the listeners, that's that's a huge, I appreciate you sharing that because it's a huge lesson to any field, um, to staying in the you know, kind of the batter's box and you get better. You start predicting pattern mat your pattern recognition of what people say when you say this, and uh you just continue to you know um increase your craft and get better. Um so yeah, I I respect that. So yeah, absolutely. So you moved from from Mayor Lynch, right? We're kind of just going down the line, right? You go from Fidelity to Mayor Lynch now to Right Time Financial, now which is an independent um registered investment uh advisory firm. So which gave you kind of a full autonomy uh kind of over all your operations and client relationships. What changed in how you worked and how you felt about your work when the constraints were kind of removed? Now you have this kind of free range.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Yeah, so uh throughout Fidelity and Merrill Lynch, uh there was some great opportunities where I got great experience advising, um, building you know something from the ground up, you know, uh from scratch. And I think at right time financial, it it gave me the autonomy. I was an independent contractor, so um not only was I responsible for building my own book of business, but I literally had to learn everything from operations, you know, to onboarding a client. If I had a client that wanted to roll in some money from a different institution, um, how do we go about communicating with the other institution to make sure that that money is rolled off, rolled over correctly? Just being able to take control of my marketing, you know, I had to take full autonomy around how I promoted myself on social media, just my email campaigns, uh staying in touch with clients. And I also had to do a lot with business development. Just trying to get out there in my community, um, was able to get a lot of great experience with joining my local chamber of commerce and uh went to a lot of different conferences where I was able to get around other small business owners. It definitely really changed my approach to work and how I felt about it because I had to really take control of every moving piece of my business and even understanding my own numbers, like, okay, what are we spending with your marketing budget and the financial planning software that you use, and what is the income that you're actually making from clients that are coming into the business, into the practice, and what is your overlying uh cash flow? So I think that I had to really understand how I serve clients, you know, how I structured the relationships and how I communicate communicated my value. And I think it was the freedom that allowed my work to be more closely aligned, you know, to how I actually think. And I think I wasn't really just following a model, but I was really refining my own model. And I think that that's when I started to really lean into behavioral finance more intentionally. Um, throughout my time at Right Time Financial, as you know, Choy, um, I got my uh certified financial planning certification. And there's a section, you know, throughout that study material that I went through that really hones in on, you know, what are the behavioral biases that investors have? Um, you know, what are the principles of counseling when you are dealing with someone that is really needing financial therapy or have their own internal money beliefs of how they make decisions, how do you communicate with your delivery that's in alignment with where they're at in their life? And I think that was such a profound point that you made because delivery and financial planning is everything, your tone, your um nonverbal communication, uh just how you are communicating, how your eye contact, everything plays a role. And a lot of times clients can be either rubbed off in a good way or a negative way, depending on how all of those elements are in a financial planning conversation. So I think right time financial, it really gave me the space to really focus on the human side of financial decision making, not just the technical side, like previous roles that I was in throughout the industry. And that really changed everything for me because the work became more meaningful. And I think for me, it wasn't just about solving a financial problem, but it was helping people understand themselves in the process. And I think from a business standpoint, it also made me more intentional. And when you have autonomy like that over your life, you know, you can't hide behind structure. You really have to be clear on your philosophy, your approach, and who you serve. And I think it really pushed me to define my work on a deeper level of really just understanding that it's not just what I do, but this is the reason why I'm doing it. And uh it was a great opportunity and it helped me learn a lot while I was in that role.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Yeah, I was gonna say it sounds like everything you did, right, helped you to get to that point, right? From the marketing background with sports, now going from Error Lynch, kind of more, you know, biz development and all these skills that you built, it was like, all right, now I'm here. Now I'm in this, too you said in the beginning of the podcast, I'm in this driver's seat now. And although you had full autonomy, um, there was still some structure, if you will, right? And you also hit it on the head that you said it was very intentional. That that's what I was listening, that's what I was picking up, is that you had to be intentional now, balancing your own book of business, where's the money going? What's the output? Am I getting value from this maybe the service that I'm using? And then also helping the clients understand uh their framework and their understanding. And um, because of that, this is what which is really on this part, this is a really good turning point for this podcast because actually I want to go into that and really kind of dive deep into um kind of the money problems and how that really leads to many times um it's just an identity problem, right? Not really the money itself. Because you you mentioned prior offline that you're you know, you're writing content or you're writing and doing content, centered around behavioral finance, which you touched on in your answer. Um, but for those who are listening, for viewers, for someone who's never encountered encountered that term, um, what is behavioral finance actually saying that you know traditional finance advising is miss missing or misses? Before we keep going, if what Kevin just shared about the psychology behind your money decisions is landing for you, he works directly with people on this. Go to his website, link is in the show notes, and send him a message, mention code LifeISPOD10, and he will take care of you with 10% off his services. This is the work. Do not sleep on it.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yeah, that's that's a great question. So, you know, behavioral finance in simple terms is really understanding, you know, why we make financial decisions. So whether it's really understanding, you know, why do we overspend, or, you know, why do you buy, you know, that Louis Vuitton backpack, or, you know, why are we investing? Um, you know, why do we go on maybe uh lavish traveling trips? It's really just trying to look behind the lens and understand how emotions and how our cognitive thinking can impact our financial decision making. And I think with traditional finance, it really advises on focusing on strategy. So whether it's invest here, um, budgeting, saving, um, you know, looking at, you know, what stocks to pick, um, I think it often misses because behavioral finance is really paying attention to the human side. And I think there needs to be a lot more work on that, which is really understanding how stress, our habits, our identity, which we talked a lot throughout this podcast, um, environment and our emotions really play a role within our decision making. Because I think at the end of the day, you know, most people don't fail because they don't know what to do, but they struggle because they can't consistently do what they already know. And I think like what I've talked about throughout the show, um, there are many small little hidden biases that we have, whether it's um loss aversion bias, you know, where the the risk of losing money uh feels much more stronger than actually gaining money, um, or anything like lifestyle inflation, you know, where we tend to spend more money as our income starts to go up over time. It's these types of biases where when I'm sitting down with someone or when I'm creating content, I'm trying to help connect the dots to help people understand this is why you're making the decisions that you do, because you have maybe some eternal um, you know, uh emotional beliefs about certain concepts of your relationship with money on your either your past, present, or your future that is impacting the decisions that you're making today. So um that's what it is, and and that's typically what I see the misses when it comes to traditional finance.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

Yeah, it sounds like you know, my mind's like, you know, fine the the traditional, the the dichotomy between both of them is like the finance, the traditional is just missing, it's very um, I don't know, black and white, very generic in a sense, maybe in my own words, where it's it's totally missing on the other element, right? The human human element, right? The emotional, uh what we're talking about, the psychology. It's almost missing the mechanism, and ever over here is just kind of the front end. Um I I've visually kind of seen two things just separate, and you know, you you kind of need both. If if um if I'm speaking correctly, you kind of need both, but definitely you need the human element. They're they're um unplugging it, is what I kind of pictured. They're unplugging that whole um apparatus, if you will, without even uh acknowledging it. Um so you said obviously as you as you were kind of talking about your uh I like the word financial therapy. Financial therapy there, uh literacy, right? In behavioral therapy or literacy, you said that um you know most math problems or financial problems are are not math problems, right? Um they're behavior and emotional um problems. When did you first see that clearly, right, with throughout your own experience? And was there a specific moment um, you know, with a client or in in a in the data where the truth became impossible to ignore? Like it was clear as day.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Yeah, no, that's another great question. And I think for me, um the mix of when I if I have to point to a specific moment, um, I would say one was definitely getting my CFP, um, really understanding how these decisions really play much a bigger, tremendous role uh than actually knowing where to invest or knowing what to do with money. And the second was, you know, reading a book by Daniel Conaham called Thinking Fast and Slow. And I've talked to you about this book before, Coi, but it's such an amazing book, man, that um you talk about a guy, Daniel Conaham, he won the Nobel Priest, uh the Nobel Peace Prize on this concept of psychology and economics and understanding behavioral finance. And he has um a background as an economist, you know, so he's seen it from both sides, and I think he brings up a concept in the book called Two Systems of Thinking, which is your system one, thinking of your brain, which is fast, automatic, and emotional. So just think through, you know, if you are getting on a bike or you're driving a car, you don't really have to think about it. It's something that is already ingrained in your mind that you know how to do automatically. And system two, which is the other side of our brain, is slow, intentional, and logical. So it could be like you're planning to start a business idea, or you're trying to think through what you may want to cook for dinner, or um, you know, what school to put your kids in. Um, it really requires you to really sit down and maybe do some research. And I think that's really what clicked for me is that most financial decisions are made in system one, which is when someone is overspending, they're avoiding investing, uh, they're making impulsive decisions. And it's not because they don't know better, it's because their brain is trying to protect them, respond quickly, or reduce stress. And I think a lot of times that's where our finer flight comes in with the brain, where we're just trying to survive. You know, it's just our innate nature to um be able to survive. And I think that that's where traditional finance really misses the mark as well, because it doesn't really speak to system two. Um, I mean, well, it speaks to system one, but it doesn't really speak to uh system two as much. What system two is uh logic's number strategy. And I think that most people they live in system one. So what I try to focus on with my work is, you know, how do we build systems, environments, and habits that really support better decisions, even when things are not moving perfectly, because if you don't understand how people actually make decisions, you know, you can give great advice that never gets followed. So I think for me, you know, it's trying to help clients understand their system to be able to use more system two of their brain, where it's more slow, intentional, and logic, where I think with traditional finance, um, they may spend some time talking about retirement planning and these things that do require system two, but they're not really talking about system one and how we a lot of times have these automatic decisions that we make with money that doesn't even allow us to get the system two, you know, to thoroughly to thoroughly plan and really uh prepare for the future. So, yeah, man, that's what I would say. You know, when it comes to that and and just some of the work that I do, um, those two things is really what shift my perspective. We really want to get to this world of understanding the just how behavior and our habits have such a profound role in our financial decision making.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:16

Yeah, that's spot on. You know, I I you know, my my as I pick this up and I kind of you know processed it myself, it's like you're you're really taking the time to teach, you know, clients, men and women how to fish, right? Kind of using that biblical um reference is like you're not just coaching them, right? Being the coach, but you're coaching them how to become a coach. So now they understand that their actions, their behaviors, um, their identity, all of that that makes up their buying decision. Um, because to what you said, you can give great advice, right? But if they have no understanding, it's gonna fall on deaf ears, right? And they'll still make the same decisions, even though you're given better information, um, whether that's strategy or data. So it's like, you know, you're really diving in to give them the the recipe, if you will, to have the reins, right? You give them the keys to their own life to just kind of you know coach them through it. Yeah. Um, so you you also talked, Kevin, about you know, your work obviously integrates um cogni cognitive uh neuroscience, right? Understanding how the brand actually makes decisions to what you were just talking about into financial education. What does understanding the neuroscience of like decision making give you as an educator that credentials and calculations alone cannot? And you kind of touched on a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Yeah, no, I could definitely expand on it. So I think um a lot of times what I see is lacking with um financial advisors is, you know, there's so much education, you know, on, you know, telling a client what to do, you know, telling them how to plan for retirement or how to get insurance. But I think that there isn't enough education on the neuroscience and really just understanding as something as simple as money beliefs, which is another concept that I did a lot of deep dive on, is how do your childhood influences of what you've been taught from your parents impact your adult decisions today? And I think that's a whole masterclass on neuroscience, as far as how, you know, whether you were taught from your parents that maybe money doesn't grow on trees or um you you you weren't exposed to investing or understanding how wills and trusts help be able to protect your assets for the long term. That can have a tremendous impact on how you think about finances that you're managing as an adult today. Whereas you can have someone that is raising a family where they got exposure of knowing how to use credit from an early age. They had exposure to custodial accounts where they had investments and they were exposed to um entrepreneurship. Um, those are two different experiences that a child can have, and they can have such a profound role in their neuroscience of what they do and how they go about um spending saving and investing their money as an adult. So I think really for me, um neuroscience really has really changed my approach to financial coaching because it really has shifted me from saying, what should this person do to what is actually happening in their brain, you know, where they make decisions. And I think when you have people that are going under financial stress, it may not be best for me to just tell someone, okay, well, you know, you gotta um put, you know, $200 away every month so you can have enough in retirement. You may have to sit there for a minute and just say, you know, what are some of the things happening in your life that is causing the stress? Or maybe what were um what were some of the things taught to you as a child? And I think when I really pause and reflect and I slow down, it allows me to give better advice. It allows me to give um just better education that can help people to really have a better understanding of why they're making the decisions that they need to make. And I think that when people are really thinking about retirement, what they are thinking about is relief. And I think really leaning into that is saying, like, okay, how do I help encourage them to make a decision today that can help them say, you know, the decision that I made today is really going to give me the relief that I'm looking for, you know, when I'm older. And I think a lot of times I've noticed from my experiences working at Meryl, working at Fidelity, you know, when I came in talking about asset allocation or long-term strategy, you know, sometimes that didn't always land because, you know, a lot of people, like what you said also as well, Choy, money is a very sensitive subject. And realizing now as I'm evolving as an educator and as an advisor, that most people have to have time to process the information that you're giving them. And that's another element of neuroscience that you got to give people time to really understand what they're processing and being able to help them make the decision, make the decision easier for them to be able to make them want to take the leap of faith, to be able to take action on the recommendations that I provide as an advisor. So I think neuroscience um it plays such a role with awareness, you know, it it helps me meet people where they are, you know, mentally and emotionally, and really design um strategies and education that is actually aligned with how they think and how they behave. So instead of them really relying on willpower or discipline, um, my goal is to help build systems that can reduce friction, automate good decisions, and ultimately create consistency. And I think that that's what creates the difference because credentials and calculations, like I said, it can tell you what to do, but understanding the brain, it actually helps you do what you say you want someone to do. So that's what I would say. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

Look, we can stop right there. That's it. No, it's messy. That's good. You know, you know, like a true speaking like a true scientist, man, you're you're not focused on the output. Yeah. You know, you're you're really looking at like whatever this mechanism is, or your your specimen you're looking at, in this case, you know, your client, you're saying, what's going on, or why, why, why is this happening? Right. You're really trying to get the back end to figure out that, right? And I think that's so beautifully, it was, you know, how you expressed it and stated it was perfectly because that's that's where you need to be at um to to change the output, right? To change the end. And I think also how you approach it, you know, my own, in my own uh opinion, I think um, you know, financial, you know, planning and analysis kind of kind of have this like staunchy, kind of stiff breath of air coming coming to you when you said asset allocation and these kind of ling lingo that you have in the field, and it's like you know what's again how you deliver it, right? Depending on personalities, right? Every personality is different, depending on your clients and age cohorts. You know, if you deliver it to me in a silly way or in a in a I don't know, outbeat way, I might, you know, I'm gonna jump on it compared to if it's very kind of boring. Anyways, I guess wanted to share just once again how you approach it and giving people time to to process that type of information to actually know what they're getting into to your point of making feel comfortable and have that relief to know, hey, what I'm doing today is gonna help me tomorrow, while in conjunction understanding myself from that bias. So, yeah, man, I love that I love the tie-in here. So I love where we're going here. So going kind of extrapolating forward, right? We're gonna talk about your newsletter because I think this is phenomenal for even the listeners and viewers who are watching um and listening. Um, you have your newsletter, the behavioral wealth report, um, and it's focused on providing obviously financial education centered around behavior, right? Decision-making and intentional life planning for Gen Z, millennials, and first generation wealth builders, um, which is right a very deliberate choice of building community around these specific uh audiences and and um uh cohorts. What do you understand about you know those communities um that need that traditional uh let me I guess reframe that. I guess what do you understand about those communities that those communities need that the traditional wealth management industry um has either ignored or just you know gotten wrong in general? Real talk. How many times have you seen exactly where you want to go clearly and then talk yourself out of it before you even started? How many times have you committed to something, felt that initial surge of energy, and then watch yourself quietly sabotage it two weeks later? And how many times have you asked yourself, why can't I just trust myself to do the thing I already know I'm capable of? I've been there. And I've worked with enough people to know this isn't a discipline problem. It's a coherence problem. Your nervous system is interpreting growth as threat. Your identity is still tied to old versions of yourself, your beliefs are running on outdated code, and no amount of willpower fixes that. That's why I built the coherence performance method, a seven-module program rooted in neuroscience, system thinking, and real-world application. You'll learn how to regulate your nervous system so change feels safe, not scary, how to build stable identity that doesn't collapse when things get hard, how to reprogram limiting beliefs with evidence, not just positive thinking, how to make decisions from internal authority instead of external validation. This isn't theory, it's practice, self-awareness, self-trust, self-leadership, self-authorship. That's the arc. If you're tired of cycling back to the same patterns, if you're ready to finally trust yourself the way you've been wanting to, go to the show notes and join the program. The coherence performance method. Let's do this work together.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:56

Yeah, man, this is uh something that is really near and dear to my heart, you know, as far as me uh creating uh this newsletter that is really helping to provide uh financial education, you know, to center around behavior, uh decision making and intentional life planning, specifically for Gen Z millennials and first generation wealth builders. And, you know, coming from the institutional finance world, especially when I was at Merrill Lynch, um, is heavily driven around just AUM assets under management and uh searching out for high network clients where you can't really even market your services to a person like myself, you know, that's building wealth for the first time in my family, or maybe one of the first entrepreneurs in my family, or maybe a millennial that is dealing with um the challenges of balancing a career in a family, and they may not have um a $250,000 plus net worth, um, or maybe a Gen Z, you know, uh person that may be coming out of school and they're trying to figure out how they just started beginning investing accounts. So I think the traditional finance world doesn't really speak to those types of people. Um, it's often driven by AUM and wanting to look for a specific demographic of a high net worth uh class of people. And I think that the traditional industry, they really assume that access, you know, equals understanding. And I think, you know, for a lot of people, especially first generation wealth builders like myself, you know, that's not true. You know, I think that, you know, we don't just need more information, but we need context, you know, we need reliability, you know, and we need someone who understands that, you know, our environment, you know, and our pressures and our responsibilities, and how do we create strategies and long-term financial planning ideas that align with that? And I think most importantly, um, there needs to be more education around helping people be able to build that confidence and not just giving instructions. And I think um a lot of times, you know, when it came to me working for these different institutions, I really sat back and said, you know what, I want to build something that really serves the people that can really help within my communities. And I think that's what I'm doing now, and that's what birthed the newsletter, is just trying to uh give exposure um to a specific demographic of people that have often been ignored in the industry or may not have as many resources that tailor to their circumstances. So that's what the newsletter is about, is just trying to give it, uh give some education from a different perspective and really talk to those group of people of how they can be just more aware of their decisions and uh be able to form better habits that can help them be aligned with uh their long-term financial outcomes that they want within their lives.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Yeah. And I'm just curious too, and I I appreciate the answer because I think that's that's a beautiful birthplace to create something like that because you see the need, you see um, you know, for lack of better terms, a generation that's ignored and not not getting the resources that it should be. Um I wanted just this is me just more being curious as you were speaking. Do you see like also a trend? And and I guess give you some context because a tr a trend changing from no, you know, AU AUM, and I'm gonna maybe just assume, right, a stereotype baby boomer, wealthy white American male, right? And I say that because, you know, I spoke to another former executive in the R V world um where he mentioned, you know, the R V world, that's their demographic, white, baby boomer who camps. But, you know, from his data, right, and what he's he's you know put money into, he realizes, you know, 80% of those folks, you know, bamboo boomers are gonna obviously eventually die off, but there's another demographic where it's like 80%, I think, are like 25 or I forget the number or younger that are minority. So he he sees a wave that's gonna change. I'm more just curious, speaking offline here, do you see maybe a trend that's changing? And you're always gonna have those 1%ers, but like for majority, you know, do you see that that changing?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:23

Yeah, no, I mean, I definitely see the trend changing. You know, I think like what you said, um, I know I had read a statistic, I don't know the exact numbers, but um, I know they said like millennials are going to be one of the most wealthiest, you know, generations, you know, just from all of the wealth that will be built and that has been built, and and Gen Z, you know, with them being a lot more tech uh native, um, they are more, much more willing to be entrepreneurs um than millennials or maybe even baby boomers, or even um when you think about Gen X. Um, I think about also, you know, with uh Gen Gen Z, uh there are much more people that are doing freelancing work, so they're branching out to kind of uh pursue opportunities for that. And they're really big into like the cryptocurrency space. So I think that the trend is changing as far as where um there's going to have to be more products and more services that really align to those demographics. Um and I'm already seeing with a lot of other financial planners and financial advisors in my industry that are focusing on behavioral finance, and they actually are changing their practice where instead of serving baby boomers or maybe Gen X, they're now positioning more to millennials and Gen Z. So I think it's really being ready for that wave of how the population is gonna grow tremendously, and like you said, how baby boomers are eventually uh won't no longer be here. Um, so yeah, man, I think the trend is changing just in the statistics and the data um and the behavior and just the um the amount of money that's gonna be brought into um the millennial generation. Um there's gonna have to be a shift there, or else a lot of advisors are gonna miss out on a lot of opportunities. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:18

Yeah, no, I and I appreciate the feedback. That was just me being curious. You know, as you were speaking, I'm like, man, there's gotta be a shift. I assume there'll be a shift, right? You gotta file the data. And you know, we live in a data information, right? With AI and everything. And so, you know, at some point there's gotta be a you know a tidal wave that's gonna go a different direction. So I want to build on, you know, the newsletter, right? I want to build on that because you've moved beyond that, you still do it, but I want to build on the momentum you've created um with that. And speaking of that, you're you're kind of building relationships um with high schools there in McKinney, right in Texas, cranny after school programs, build um on budgeting, um, student loans, custodial accounts, financial decision making for young adults, you know, which I love that you're doing that. But what happened in your own life, or what did you witness that made you certain that this work needed to exist?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:08

Yeah, man. So I would say for me, you know, growing up, um, I didn't have any uh experiences with uh financial literacy within the high school, you know, um, or I didn't really have any counselors or anyone come up to me um and talk about, you know, maybe going to a workshop to learn about um budgeting or understanding how credit works or um even just decision making when it comes to uh going about uh going to college and knowing how to take out student loans versus uh trying to save money um or get scholarships. So a lot of that education wasn't there. So I think for me, not experiencing it and being in an environment where it's in the city of Texas, um, they're doing a lot of great work where for some of the seniors in the high schools in my area, um it's mandatory for them to go through a financial literacy class where it teaches them the basics about budgeting, saving, investing, credit. Um, but I think what I'm really uh focusing in on now is trying to go into the inner cities of Dallas where it's the black communities where there isn't a financial literacy program. Um really just going to speak to the kids and really talk to them about um how they can make better decisions, you know, when it comes to money. And I think, you know, honestly, it's me having that, not having that exposure as a child is what's making me want to do that now. And just seeing that there really is a void, you know, for in a lot of the black community. And I think if I can find ways to reach people earlier in their lives, they can have much better outcomes when they're my age. Because that's all I pray for, is that the generations that come after me are much better prepared than what it was for me. So if you can tell a child that's in middle school or that's just getting ready to go into high school about uh how to simply set up a Roth IRA once they get a job, that could change the trajectory of their lives. You know, when they turn 30 years old, they could have over a million dollars, you know, if they max out their Roth IRA every single year, you know, over a 10 to 15 year period of time. So I just think it's like conversations like that and just everything we're saying about money beliefs and how if we can attack that early on, you know, I I've been victim of my own money beliefs, you know, whether it was buying um an expensive car, you know, a Dodge Challenger uh when I was much younger coming out of school, that um the Cardinal was, you know, pretty expensive and it wasn't it wasn't ideal where my income was at at that time. It wasn't a purchase I shouldn't have made, but it was my own driven behavior of just kind of money worship and also money status where I was making money just to buy things, but I wanted to show that I had a corporate job or that I was riding nice and something that was a fast car. So it's things like that, man, for me, it's a passion project, you know. Regardless if these schools pay me or not, I just want to go in and talk to the kids and have impact. And um, I think that that's the reason why, you know, I'm on a on a mission to really try to get more in the schools out here.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:30

Yeah, man. That's that's uh, you know, it's an impact, mission driven, you know, from from what I'm picking up. It's um, you know, we always hear, you know, we're still millennial, but we always hear, you know, talking about wanting to help the next generation, but it really is giving them kind of the the roadmap, right? The highway to like, look, man, here's here's what you can do, you know, and here's how we can kind of set it up. And um so you can have a better future, right? So you're not uh whether it's statistics statistics like you said in the beginning, or just in in the same rut as the majority, you know, kind of get ahead there um to have a better future. I was also laughing too in my head, because you said you got the uh you got the Dodge Challenger, and I said, you know, my insurance mind was like, man, I know that insurance was crazy at that time. Uh beyond the beyond the car payment.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:18

Yeah, well, because I was young too, so they're gonna hit you with high insurance. You drive in a fast car at the age of 22, they're gonna hit you with some high insurance.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:29

Yes, yeah, that's where my mind was going. I said, I know that insurance was crazy. But uh speaking of right, your your impact, right, because you're really doing really a lot of good stuff. And, you know, most of the time it is transactional. You know, most of the time when people come into schools, it's transactional. It's very much, you know, here's how budget works, here's what is credit score edge. Very just basic, right? I'm gonna I'll call it out. It's very generic, very 101 that where people lose interest in. You're really kind of going in here on a deeper level, talking about the emotional and psychological roots of financial behavior. And to that aspect, what do you believe kids need to understand about money that no standard curriculum is currently teaching them?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:08

Yeah, that's that's another great question, Choy. So I think similar to what we said about how, you know, advisors in the industry are oftentimes just giving information. Um, I see that same dynamic, you know, when it comes to financial education curriculums that are um in schools, or it maybe even someone is coming to speak to a school like an advisor. Like you said, here's how a budget works, here's what a credit score is, here's how investing works. And I think that those things are tremendously important and they do need to be talked about, but I think that they assume something that isn't true, which is they assume that a child already understands the information and that they'll automatically apply it, but that's not how people actually behave. You know, what I've seen, even just in my own uh financial planning and helping clients, is that people need to understand before anything else, you know, how is their relationship with money being formed? And that's the same thing with the child, you know, the things that their parents are teaching them at an early age, they need to know how their relationship with money is being formed. Because I think by the time someone learns about budgeting, they've already maybe developed some habits or beliefs and emotional patterns around money. So I think things like, you know, do I spend, you know, does someone spend to cope with stress or do they avoid, you know, looking at their finances because it creates anxiety? Uh, do you often compare yourself to others uh in order to keep up with your own finances, or, you know, do you have the pressure to support family before you can actually build something for yourself? I think that those patterns, they don't necessarily come from information or a textbook of a credit score or a budget, but it really comes from internally or externally from environment, your emotions, your experiences, and observing how they actually grew up. So I think instead of teaching kids what to do with money, they need to understand why they do what they do with it. And I think once they understand that, um, everything else can become much more effective because now I can actually build a system that actually works for students and parents. So I think a lot of what I want to help with curriculums and the workshops that I want to bring forth in schools is um helping students to be able to recognize their own patterns, um, understand how stress and emotions, influence, decision making, um, building simple systems early so they can get ahead of a lot of things once they get into college or they get that first corporate job. And most importantly, um, how they do they develop confidence without having shame of where they're currently at or at in the moment. Because I think that if I don't address the emotional and the psychological, the psychological side of these things, I'll end up, you know, creating people who know better, but they still struggle to do better. So I think that that's the gap that I'm trying to close, is that I, similar to what you said earlier, is that I want to teach a child how to fish. So that way when you come to um having a financial planner um investing for you, you already have maybe some systems in place that help you to be able to make better decisions. And um I think that that's what I'm on a mission to do is just trying to help close that gap and trying to help people be able to make those better, better decisions.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:41

Yeah, and I feel like the kids, or if it's a young adults, they can take this information to your point, apply it. It's not, you know, they're assuming they already know it and they'll just, you know, you know, implement it, but it's like that's not the case. You know, to my to my opinion, it's like when it's really generic about like, you know, here's budgeting, here's credit score, but it's like that's in the ear, out the other, right? You're not really being engaging, you're not putting them in any experimental, hands-on type of thing. Not to say that you have to or that's always the case, but to what you're alluding to is like you gotta get the behavioral, the emotional, the experiences, right? Whether internal or external, that's what really moves, and someone can remember that. That might pique the interest in one of those that you're teaching. Um, and I also love what you said. Um, you know, kind of in summary, kind of from what Bob Proctor said, it's it's not what you do that's a problem. It's what causes you to do what you do that's the problem. And that's where you're really focusing on from a psychology standpoint, like that's where we need to be at, right? That's that's that's the whole you know, modus operandi of of of making better decisions in um in your financial world. So I love what you are you're you're tapping into that and really not really wavering on that. It's it's that's that's a starting point. Um because then they because I feel like then at that point, young adults and kids kind of can uh understand themselves. Um just I don't know, I guess on a deeper level, they just understand what's what's really going on and um can change it, right? They can change it and to your point, not for the shame or the guilt, um, but they can build upon it. All right, so as I'm kind of ramping up here, we're kind of gonna hit the exit here shortly. You you talk about right consistency and specif uh uh specifying and being specific what right as your as your foundation about building credibility and community. Um, what does discipline look like for you from a day-to-day, right? And what has staying in your own lane taught you um about how trust actually gets built with an audience?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:37

Yeah, man. So I think discipline for me in my life is just uh really showing up and doing the hard things that I want to create in my life, even when I don't feel like doing it. You know, I think that's honestly what discipline is. It's just you do the hard things no matter how you feel. You may be sick, you you you may be going through something hard in life. We all go through trials and tribulations, uh, but it's still showing up. So I think for me, man, um it's it's still continuing to write, um, regardless if maybe someone is is not um reading an article, or maybe I'm not getting as much feedback as I would like. Um, I think for me, you know, my purpose is grounded in um over time. I know people will come and they will be able to learn a little bit more about um the niche that I'm carving, you know, when it comes to uh understanding how, you know, their own, how people's behaviors, our decisions, and our habits impact our financial decision making. So I think for me, man, my discipline is just continuing to do that, um, as well as just being proactive with uh getting involved with the schools. So it's a lot of uh just outreach, you know, with in my own community, um just going to schools in my neighborhood and just showing them the value of the workshops that I can create and the and the um impact that I want to have for students and parents, whether it's creating a a parent night uh session or doing a summer program. Um, so it's just really staying consistent where the traction is not there, where someone may say, Well, I'll I'll I'll let you know or I'll call you at another time. Um it's just having the discipline to know that listen, you know, for me, it's about planting the seeds now so that way I can reap a harvest for the future to come. So regardless if I get it a yes or a no now, um, I'm sowing the seeds when it comes to my newsletter, when it comes to my workshops and a lot of the financial literacy programs that I'm creating and even the courses that I want to create, it's all sowing the seeds. So it's just having that discipline to know that, you know, I'm still putting in the work now and continuing to have the growth mindset and being a lifelong student. You know, I'm still a person that is very active and researching about what's going on um in the financial planning space. You know, I also have um some aspirations of getting um my certified uh financial therapist certification so I can dive a little bit more deeper um into the behavioral aspect and and actually can be a financial therapist. So that that'll be important because that's something I want to add as an auxiliary. You know, it'll be just maybe like another service for someone that's really struggling with some financial issues and they need therapy. Um, I want to kind of dive into that lane. So that's kind of what discipline looks like for me, some of the active things that I'm doing right now to kind of position the future that I want moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:43

Yeah, man, I'd love to learn more about the uh financial therapist. I think that's intriguing. I think for for those who are listening, man, I that, you know, I got my ears pricked up when I heard that. That's that's interesting to kind of have that um, yeah, as a service. I don't think that's ever been, from my knowledge, I've never heard of that. So I don't think that's ever been something that's offered.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:02

Yeah, it's a it's a new and growing field. I don't know how long, I would say maybe it's probably maybe not no more than maybe 10 years old, but um they have a whole community, like there's a certification board and everything, and there are some advisors that are getting the certification. But I first I first learned out about it when I was studying for the CFP, and I didn't even know about this world. And when they talked about financial therapy, they said this is a certification that, you know, advisors can get. I'm like, okay, that's something that I could dive in deeper and I could go even more um into understanding, like, you know, how do you really coach someone when they're going through maybe financial trauma and and they are having some serious financial experiences that has really um changed their outlook on how they go about saving and and investing. So something that I want to learn about and and just wanting to grow my expertise in for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:59

Yeah, no, that's an I will be looking forward to that, man. I think it's a great, great service to have. Um, yeah, I'm I'm excited to see what that that turns into, along with also just like you said, just having your your um you know your discipline to what you were doing earlier and and making sure you're doing stuff, you know, even when you don't feel like it. And I feel like that's probably the hardest thing for for m even myself or maybe even viewers, just being consistent in that, no matter um how you feel, still showing up and keeping the mission um at the forefront, right, beyond just the numbers and what you're doing, you want to continue to provide and and give value. So um a couple more questions here for you. Um, right. So you grew up, Kevin, kind of recap, man. So we've we've kind of dove into a lot here, but you grew up in Detroit, right? Uh played sports, graduated, right, got your biz degree, uh, moved through marketing and autofinance, and then graduate school. We all, just like yourself, hit the pandemic. And that really for you kind of launched your new career, earned multiple licenses, licenses, excuse me, and then obviously worked at Fidelity, Merrill Lynch, and uh even right time financial, where now you're building your own financial education brand and developing programs for schools simultaneously. When you look at that entire, right, that entire art, that whole journey, you know, what do you know now about um about how a person actually builds a life that is genuinely theirs um that they could not have known at the beginning? That question, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:26

It it definitely is a reflective question. And I would say for me, man, if I look at my journey, you know, growing up in the inner city of Detroit and having those small lessons in entrepreneurship, whether it was selling candy or um doing things in in my neighborhood to going to school and getting a sports management degree and having that experience uh initially early in my career, whether I was working in marketing, business development, and then transitioning into financial planning, what I would say is that it wasn't a linear path. You know, oftentimes in life, you know, I love um in the Bible, um it really talks about how, you know, we often set plans for our life, but the Lord determines our steps. And that sometimes in life you may have a plan of what you want to do, but you don't know what challenges are going to come. You don't know what detours the Lord is going to put in front of your path. And sometimes you it's done for the Lord's purpose, you know, it's done for Him to maybe open up opportunities for you that you didn't experience. And I think for me, that's what I think about my life is that everything that I've done now, it wasn't a linear path. There was some curves, you know, there were some roundabouts and some turns. And I think that what I understand what I understand now is that you don't build a life by just following the straight path, but you build it by paying attention to what keeps pulling you. And I think everything that was pulling me, whether it was the small little finance courses that I took at BG, um, going back to school to get an MBA to really understand from a business standpoint what does it take to really operate a business, or even the things that my mom had me doing at a very early age, um, it was small strings kind of pulling me in certain directions that I feel like has gotten me, you know, to where I am today. And even with sports, you know, having the background of all of the sports that I was in, that's what drove me to pursuing a sports management degree. And I think for me, ultimately, it's really helped me a lot about how to understand people and really how, you know, we think, how we decide, and how we move. And I think that once I really learned that, how just our lives are often driven by maybe the small influences that we had as children, um, that's for me is when everything really started to align. Of I see why I'm doing what I'm doing now and why I have such a passion for entrepreneurship and wanting to build something that's long term. So that's what I would say, man. You know, if I really had to look back at my experiences and really pull from um, you know, what a person needs to know about building a life that's theirs that I wouldn't have known when I first got started, um, that's what I can extract from those experiences for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:31

Man, you hit us with a one-liner. I'm trying to remember, but you said, you know, don't pay attention to maybe the road or the plan, but pay attention to what pulls you.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:39

What's pulls you. Yeah. You don't build your life by following a straight path, but you build it by paying attention to what keeps pulling you.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:46

Yeah, that's that was uh that was it. So I hope those were listening, man. I caught that and I said, man, that was good. Um, but all in all, man, I think just a theme throughout your life, like you said, from school into the classes to even your own environment from Detroit, the inner city, and growing up has culminated and created this nucleus, if you will, of what you're doing now, why you do what you do, and also the spark of what got you into what you're doing, right? There's just these kind of two polarities that kind of came together that kind of helped you um become Kevin, who you are today. And that was a really um, like I said, it's not a linear thing, it was a really natural, beautiful um culmination of experiences, ups and downs, curveballs, detours that you know, um created it to what it is now. So I appreciate that answer and um explaining kind of that whole that whole journey there. I got two questions for you. Um for for someone who's listening right now, right? Whether that's on YouTube or in just the the audio format, maybe a first-generation professional, maybe someone who knows the traditional financial system was not built for them, uh, maybe someone's trying to figure out the relationship with money where to even start, what do you, what would you or what do you say to that person?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:00

Yeah, man, another great question. You really hidden hidden all of the important aspects of uh uh what I really wanted to talk about. Yeah, man, what I would say is if if if you're a person that is listening or watching and still trying to figure it out, or um even a first-generational uh wealth builder, one thing I would say is this is that you're not behind, you're just building, you know, without a blueprint. So I think for all those, the best thing you can do, if anything, is really starting simple and really focusing on your own behavior before you can get into the complexities of financial planning. And I think um I actually really talked about this more recently in the in the newsletter that I talked about on how to design better financial decisions. And there's a five-step framework that I created called the decision stack, and this is for someone that you can use this, and I'll actually share with Coi uh the worksheet that I actually have for each of these different steps, and hopefully it's something, a framework you can use that can help you with just kind of getting started and being more intentional about how your own behaviors and your emotions impact your decision making. But step one is you want to identify the trigger. So every financial decision that you have, it starts with a trigger, whether it's a market headline, a life event, um, a feeling of urgency. And I think that one thing that you can do is ask yourself what specifically prompted you to think about making a specific decision. And naming the trigger can help you separate the event from your reaction. And step two is you can inventory your emotions. So before acting, I encourage you all to really pause and really name what you're feeling. So whether it's fear, stress, anxiety, guilt, confidence. Um, I think that this step really matters because emotions often drive action before logic even has a chance to engage. So maybe ask yourself, you know, if you weren't feeling this emotion, would you still be making the same decision? Uh step three is write down the bias. So when I say bias, I'm talking about behavioral biases that could be influencing your decision making. So common examples could be uh maybe overconfidence, um, maybe saying that you'll figure it out later, or inertia where you're avoiding action altogether. Uh, I think that if you can write it down, um, it allows you to be able to be more aware of the patterns that you're forming in your own behavior. And then step four is uh engage the slower part of your brain. So this is back to what we talked about at the beginning of the show with system two thinking, where you're using more logic, you're being more intentional, you're slowing down. And I think after you are have identified the bias, you want to really shift from fast emotional thinking to slower or deliberate thinking of your brain. And I think when you pause, it gives you the opportunity to use logic, context, and long-term thinking to have an opportunity to enter into your conversation. And I think some examples of that is, you know, you can take a 24 to 48 hour cooling off period before you make a big decision is an example. Um, and then I would say, lastly, with step five is really design the system. So instead of really relying on your willpower, really ask, you know, what rule uh could guide this decision next time? You know, what automation could you put in place to re remove some of the emotions that you're feeling? And I think that this step really helps you to replace reaction with structure. So that's what I would say for those, you know, that are just starting out, um, kind of start with that five-step framework. And I'll share the work sheet with Choi. And you're more than welcome to sharing that with your viewers, and hopefully you can give them, you know, some insight on how to be able to make some better, better decisions.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:10

Yeah, man, I was uh at the beginning, you were sound like a financial therapist there in it already. A lot of who, what, where, kind of opened-ended. And uh, but I love it, man. I love, I love the framework. I think it's simple, like you said. You know, for myself, I'm very much someone who can who wants to jump on the complexity of things, just because I just like to get into the weeds, you know, telling, you know, advising, right, viewers, even myself, to just start simple, right? Start where where you're at, and then utilizing the five-step stack um and just identifying, right? I think it's the key thing is identifying, knowing where it's at, what's what's triggering, what's the emotional um feeling that's that's um igniting in that moment, and then um learning how to put all that together into a sequence. So, you know, I'll make sure to get that from you. I'll put that in the show notes for those who are uh want to snag that and maybe implement that and look it over and um you know use it into their own life. As we kind of wrap up here, my last question, right? Um for viewers, right, where can they find you, Kevin? Um, where can they follow your work um and sign up for your newsletter and stay in touch if they'd like to learn more about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:20

Yeah, so the best way to get in touch with me is uh with my newsletter that's on Substack, and I'll I'll share this all with Coi. It's the Behavioral Wealth Report. And uh with my website, um, you can check me out and learn more at kevin and jenkins.com. Uh my Instagram is Kevin the Planner underscore. And then also you can follow me on LinkedIn, which is Kevin Jenkins. But I'll share all of this with Coi. And uh yeah, Corey, I really appreciate, man, this podcast. Man, keep going, keep building. Um, I really think it was an amazing episode, and hopefully it's valuable for your viewers and listeners. And uh, if you all have any questions. Uh definitely feel free to get in touch with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:03

Okay. Man, whitehead Kevin, I appreciate it. As always, thank you for your time. Last question. I lied to you there. Last question before I let you go. If you could fill in the blank end, right? Life is. What would you feel in the back end there?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:17

Man, another great question. And what I would say is life is intentional. And when I think about my life, I think about where it's brought me to today. It really makes me think that, you know, nothing meaningful really happens by accident. You know, whether it's the way that we think, the decisions we make, how we use our time, how we use our money, it really all compounds over time. And I think growing up, I saw how my own environment and circumstances shaped my direction. And what I've learned is that at some point, whether it's through the pandemic in my case, I had to really take ownership of that direction. And I think you have to become aware of your patterns, your behaviors, and really start making decisions that align with the life that you actually want, not just the one that you might have inherited or defaulted into. And that's really what my work is about. Um, helping people move from living on autopilot to living with intention. Because when we become intentional, our decisions improve, our confidence grows, and ultimately our life starts to reflect our values and not just our circumstances.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:26

Man, I love it. That's the way to go out, man. Life is intentional. Uh, thank you, and uh, we'll catch you on the other side, Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:34

Sounds good, man. Thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:37

What Kevin showed us today is that the traditional financial industry has been solving the wrong problem. It has been treating money as a math equation when the real equation has always been internal, behavioral, emotional, psychological. Kevin figured that out by watching it play out in loan applications, in client relations, in the gap between what people know they should do and what they actually do with their money. And instead of working around that gap, he decided to build a financial education brand around this concept. That is not just a smarter business model, that is a more honest one. And honesty is exactly where transformation begins. That's a wrap on today's episode of the Life Is Podcast. If something in this conversation landed for you, a shift in perspective, a reminder, or something you needed to hear, don't let it stay there. Take it with you, put it to work. If you're ready to go deeper, I have tools built specifically for this journey: a self-discovery blueprint and a diagnostic designed to show you exactly where your foundation needs attention. Links are in the show notes. And if this episode out of value, share it with someone who's building, leave a review, help us grow this community of intentional people doing real work. Remember, fulfillment isn't found, it's built. Life is our emotion, and you are the artist. Until next time, keep building.