Episode #5 Da Postman Vam Williams

Episode #5 Baltimore's own Da Postman Vam Williams delivers a killer Episode 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to the OnlyPodcast that takes you deeper into the world of professional wrestling than a carpenter submission. We've got the backstage, exclusive interviews, and the expert analysis that always hits its mark. So step in, listen up, because now it's time to introduce the team with the moves, the takedowns, and the unexpected twists. Welcome to the ring, it's the Canvas Kings.

SPEAKER_10 0:31

Welcome back to the Canvas Kings podcast, the show where we don't just talk about what happens in the ring. We talk about what it takes to become the person who steps into it. Today, the guest is someone we've wanted on this show for a long time. A man who's worn many names, many crowns, and carried a lot of weight. Sometimes gold, sometimes responsibility. You may know him as the postman. You may know him as the king of the hood. You've seen him in Asylum Pro Wrestling, Defiant Order of Wrestling, and across the independent scene. But today, we're here to talk to the human being behind all that. Please welcome our guest, Van Williams.

SPEAKER_07 1:16

What's up, everybody? It was goody, man. It was goody. Let's do this. Another day. Another day, man. Let's get to it, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Alrighty. Well, since we are gonna get right down to it, before the first question for you, brother, is before the rings, before the names, before the crowds, who was Van Williams?

SPEAKER_07 1:41

Um wow. Uh a kid from Delaware. Um grew grew up with his grandparents, was raised by his grandparents, uh, in and out the streets. Just the word I like to use is the F-boy, because that's just what I was out of the true definition of an F-boy. But um, I was just lost, man. I was truly lost. When people be like, I hear this question a lot, like, who would you be for wrestling? Nobody. I was lost. I was partying every day, I was drinking every day, I was smoking every day, living, living my life, chilling with my friends. I was a lost soul. That that's who the man behind the character was, was a lost soul. And wrestling helped me find a lot of myself.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Perfect, perfect. I'm sure there's a lot of folks that would love to, you know, that wanted to know that behind a man. Like, like you just touched on um about a little bit of your home life. What other than being like the lost soul, what kind of kid were you growing up for you? Aloner. Misunderstood.

SPEAKER_07 3:04

Um, my grandparents really helped define me as a person. Um my my childhood was very, very very trauma. Um me and my brother, we had to go through a lot. Uh even even now, like me and my brother, we sit on the phone all the time and we would just reminisce about how far we've come. Like, I never thought in a million years I would be a professional wrestler and I would be good at it. Because my life growing up was very, very, very, very weird and hurt. I was a hurt child. Um I didn't, I didn't know. I thought I was gonna, to be honest, I thought I was gonna be dead by 21. Um I because I didn't I didn't have anything. Like I was I was depressed, I was trying to find myself, dealing with father issues, dealing with mom issues, and when people would be like, oh, so who raised you? I tell them all the time, my older brother raised me. And my older brother is he's only four years older than me. And when we moved with my grandparents, um he was the only thing I had. Like, yeah, I had my grandparents, but this is like my this is my brother, this is my blood brother. Like when my mom up and left and moved to Baltimore, and she left me and my brother, that's all I had. So, like, my brother is a real big part of my life. Um, my brother is the reason why I went to therapy. Like, he's the reason why I became a wrestler. Wrestling became my outlet to get away from living in the hood, living, living where they shooting. Like, I try I got out of that environment. That don't mean that I still ain't the king of the environment, but I I just had to I had to shape shift out of that environment just to just to find myself more.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Awesome, awesome. So then with your brother, you could say he was the rock that turned you towards what you would say wrestling wasn't like an escape for you.

SPEAKER_07 5:34

Like he did he point you towards that, or no, he he sort of forced me out of the environment that we were in. Um my brother, my brother would he would hide certain things from me because he knew I couldn't handle it. And the one thing that I had was wrestling and cartoons. Wrestling and cartoons. I and it's crazy because I started watching wrestling when The Undertaker had a mask. Like I didn't I didn't know nothing about wrestling. Only thing I knew was my grandfather and my brother, they had an old tape that said it said WWF in your house, and I'll never forget plugging it in and seeing this tall man with a purple mask on. I'm like, who that? And it was the Undertaker. All right. Like it was like it was stuff like we would fight our little, like, remember that. I don't know if you remember X-Men when they had the little uh the little fighting buddies. Oh, yeah, yeah. What was the what was the character that was fighting uh Logan and X-Men? The saber-tooth guy?

SPEAKER_10 6:51

Yes, his brother.

SPEAKER_07 6:52

Remember, he yeah, he remember he had a he had a little action buddy that you can fight with. We used me and my brother used to fight with that, and my brother was like, you know what? You should you should actually think about doing karate or something. So I started doing karate in MMA at first.

SPEAKER_09 7:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 7:10

And then my godfather was a pro with a professional wrestler, guy wrestled soul. And um, then my other godfather, who is very much known now, uh I call him Jimmy. Um, a lot of people know him as James Ellsworth. But um when Ellsworth really was like, you know what, as you're my godson, you gotta take this seriously. So it was a mixture between my brother and my godfather, Reggie and Ellsworth, that really put me on this path and was like, yo, this is a different outlet for you, Brody. Like, just just you from the hood, but you don't gotta you don't gotta be a product of the hood. Just bring the hood to where you at.

SPEAKER_09 7:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:58

As you can see, I do that in it. I I do that at every show.

SPEAKER_10 8:02

This is very true.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Very true. And and do it very well, may I say.

SPEAKER_07 8:07

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_07 8:13

You uh man, I know you got come on, man. All these questions that you had, man. Come on, man. You you done sent me a whole list of questions for two weeks. You and you you you don't have nothing to say, you have nothing to say. You just like crazy Shay. You have weeks and weeks to prepare, and now you are in front of me, and you have nothing to say.

SPEAKER_10 8:43

Mike, did you lose your place, buddy?

SPEAKER_08 8:45

No, go ahead, you did, you did, you did because they're he said, he said, um, uh there's a couple more. He's a little starstruck. He's a I can't believe we got Vam. We got Vam. Oh my god, I don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Oh god. This one's off the rails real quick. But uh that with done with your godfather and you know, being James Ellsworth and you know, your brother and your other godfather. What like what type of work ethic did they instill in you none while you started in the business? Like none? None?

SPEAKER_08 9:38

None? I got my ass whooped. What the hell do you mean, work ethic? I got my ass whooped.

SPEAKER_07 9:45

I got my I got my ass whooped. What do you mean, work ethic? I lost every match for three years straight. What do you mean, work ethic? I wanted to quit wrestling because they made wrestling a living hell for me. What are you talking about? I I didn't, I'm not like some of these people who got to join a wrestling school and pay their dues, and they get put on a show, and then they get to wrestle, then they win a title. I didn't got none of that. I've been wrestling for nine years, and you're legit and you're just really hearing about me. That says a lot. That says a lot.

SPEAKER_10 10:26

It says you definitely paid your dues because they got you old school where you came in, you got your ass whipped. You kept doing it until it was right, and then you still got your ass whipped to make sure you got it right.

SPEAKER_07 10:42

Yes, bro, I I I was so I would I was so disencouraged because it would be days where I would know I would have a great match. Great match. Please. And then as a new guy in the business, you know, when you're losing and you're losing, you're like, damn, they really don't like me. Like, is it me? Like, what am I doing wrong? But it was for the good.

SPEAKER_10 11:07

Yeah, excuse me.

SPEAKER_07 11:12

Yeah, but it was for the good, it was for the good. So it wasn't what they installed in me, it was what they pushed. They they pushed me to install something in myself, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 11:26

Better yourself.

SPEAKER_07 11:27

And I think that's the problem with wrestling. Um, you have a lot of people who join the business, and because they train and they pay their dues, they expect their trainers to just hand them things. Here, take the title, here, take this. Like, no, you gotta earn it. I I I traveled up and down with Riot City and Chris Burns and Trent Pharrell and Jacob, uh, Jacob Mayberry and Zulu. I traveled up and around the world of all Pennsylvania from Red Line to York to Ceswalanna. Shouts out to SWO, who actually gave me my very first start at 14 and 15. I was one of the youngest people wrestling in Pennsylvania. So I know what it feels like to lose and not win a wrestling match. But it installed me to be this person. I became this guy because I got tired of losing and the world of professional wrestling. So I changed who I was. It wasn't until I brought myself into the world of professional wrestling that people started seeing who I was. This is not a gimmick to me. Some people would need the gimmick to get over. I didn't need a gimmick to get over. I just needed to bring the guy who lived the streets, who came from the streets, who literally made something out of nothing. I needed to bring that guy. I needed to bring who I am.

SPEAKER_10 12:55

Well said, man. Now take us to your first day of training. What do you remember feeling when you first walked in that door, man?

SPEAKER_07 13:10

Okay, so we gotta go back. My very first day of professional wrestling training was actually outside. Um, nomads, just Grace. Woodlawn High School in uh in uh Baltimore. There was a guy named Raymond Hargrove, who was known as Ray Black. There was a man named David Gray, who was known as D.T. Gray. There was a name known as Jacob Practice, who is now one of the greatest poets in the world, known as Black Shakariah. And there was a God guy Russia Soul who became one of my brothers and my best friends, and who I missed dearly. His name was Ronald Scott. And they took me into a field, and they just beat the hell out of me. Um, my very first day of actually being in the ring, I thought that the stuff that I saw on TV I can automatically do. So they was like, Oh, you want to flip? Yeah, do a front flip. I did my first front flip bump, and I was down for a week because I was like, Oh my god. It was like, yeah, you can front flip, but you did it wrong. Man, I I had a big old red spot on my back. I couldn't move for a week. Um, running the ropes were horrible. And you gotta think, you gotta go to your job after this. This is not uh wrestling is the wrestling is the is the career for me, it's a personal activity, but I still gotta get up and go to work. I got kids. So I'm wrestling, training, and I'm getting beat up training, and I'm going to work. But in my mind, I'm still gone over the stuff that I learned in the ring, gone over the stuff that I learned in the ring. So my very first experience in the ring, it was a painful one, but it made me want more. It made me want more. People ask me all the time, they'd be like, bro, you be y'all, why do you do that? What you do in the ring, and you get hurt. That adrenaline kicks in that that that that adrenaline kicks in when people call me all types of names in the book, but a child of God, you know who I'm talking to. All them people up in uh asylum that call me everything but a child of God. But I love it. Like, bro, I done been professional wrestling has made me so happy. I know I'm not supposed to say this, but I've been chased by the KKK before professional wrestling.

SPEAKER_09 15:45

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_07 15:46

Oh, I got I I wrestled the show, me and a couple of guys from Maryland. I won't say the Fed name, but it was in Tennessee. It was in Chattanooga, in Tennessee, and I had wrestled one of their top guys and also the owner of the Fed. And him and his cute girlfriend was in my match, and we did a little hardcore match. And um, I won over in the match, and it was so bad to the point where the KKK members were threatening me the whole time. We're about to kill you. I got escorted, and it's on record. We is a bunch of wrestlers will tell you, we got escorted from Chattanooga, Tennessee to Bristol, Virginia. We got escorted from Brett, and I'm sitting in the back of the car and I'm smoking. They like, bam, how you feel? I said, bro, I'm happy. Like, are you crazy? These people tried to kill you. I said, bro, that was pro that's the wrestling I grew up on. That's what I like. If I can make you hate me so much that you forget your reality, I've done my job.

unknown 16:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 16:58

Because now you're gonna leave this wrestling show hating me more than you hated the guy who hurt your feelings. I I don't, I as much as it sounds horrible, I love having people insult me to the point where they forget that I'm human. I love for people to take their emotions from every single tragedy that they have throughout that week. Because that's what a lot of people do. A lot of people come to wrestling, and I and I noticed it. I used to be like, oh, people are racist. Nah, there's a lot of people who have been stressed all week long, there's a lot of people who don't have people to talk to. So when they come to wrestling shows, the character and the the character is who they interact with. But when they see vam the character is who I am, vam is who I am. So there's a lot of times when I'm outside of the ring, you've seen it, people be like, they won't talk to me. They'd be like, oh well, you like how do you feel? I don't feel nothing because they don't want to talk to me. But after the show is over, I get told, hey man, I wanted to commit suicide, but coming here tonight made me happy because you let me say what I've been feeling. Okay, I saved you from killing yourself. I can go home and deal with being called everything in the book because I did justice for someone else.

SPEAKER_10 18:36

So as far as your training in wrestling, you know, always somebody always has somebody that humbles them real quick when they're in the ring for the first couple of times. Who was your guy that humbled you real quick?

SPEAKER_07 18:58

My cousin! Shouts out to my cousin, James, aka Drollix. My cousin Drollix humbled me quickly. So we get in the ring, and I remember I thought he was gonna take it easy on me because I was his cousin. And you know it's a respect thing in wrestling when you respect the vets. He chopped me and I kipped up. I did a kip-up bing. Rather going left or right, I kicked up. I got up, he said, Oh, really? And he chopped the holy hell out of me. My other wake-up call was from my other trainer, Ruckus. I in the ring with Ruckus, I gave Ruckus a stiff kick. He turns around and he just nails me. Bong. He's like, You see what happens when you give a receipt? I say, he says, You gotta learn how to take it. I say, whoa. So Drolls and Ruckus are the two people who gave me my wake-up calls.

SPEAKER_10 20:06

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

That's great. And with him speaking of ruckus, ruckus is a living legend around the Maryland area. Um around the world. He's around the world.

SPEAKER_07 20:18

Ruckus around the world. Ruckus is one of those guys that when he passes away, every major wrestling promotion will have to do a tribute for him, for a guy who never stepped foot in their ring. Majority of the moves that we see now, these flippy guys, we owe to Ruckus. Last night, prime example. Last night, me and the guy who I'm wrestling this Sunday for my title, for my ACW world title, Chris Lade, we were we were trained by Ruckus. And yesterday, he really gave us a lot of insight. He was like, We need to teach our structure. So he's like, Y'all can do moves, y'all are great. He said, but these big time facts, they don't care about that. They want to know can you structure yourself? So even now, even being a vet, even like being a veteran myself, I still have my mentors. Like I said, I still have my trainers, I still have James Ellsworth at my uh who literally gets on me. Um, ruckus. Like these people are the people that I go to to pick brains. Like, uh, even even shout out my boy Cody Hall. Like, one of my best people to go to for advice is Cody Hall. A lot of people might not remember that name, but Cody Hall was a member of the Bullet Club, and he's also the son of the late great Scott Hall. Cody Hall and and my and and also my brother Mark Quinn from Private Party. These are the three. Are literally the four people that I can go to and who don't sugarcoat me. Like, I'm telling you, like, they don't sugarcoat my matches, they don't sugarcoat. There's I I did something in the ring a couple weeks ago that was so wrong, I got reprimanded, and Jimmy was like, No, this is not how you do it. This and I was like, you know what? These are my trainers. I'm still learning. I don't care if I've been in the business for a long time. You're still learning. There was one point of time before before he decided to go outside the crazy asylum. I could call Crazy Shay. But clearly, that's when he was Eric. I don't know what the crap he is now. Freaking Halloween guy. I don't know what the heck that is. But there was a there was a lot of people I could call. But as the years go by, as the years go by, you get your main core. And my main core guys are Ruckus, Ellsworth, Quinn, and Cody. And none of these guys sugarcoat anything for me. Um, they are very, very, very, very strict on me. So even when I go to other states like PA and I'm wrestling, I am still a product of them. Because if I do bet, I take their name with me. Right. Because they're my trainers. So my wake-up calls were wake-up calls. And also, I had a wake-up call recently, about a year ago. Uh, me and Ellsworth, we were driving in a car, and he basically he told me I was being too much of a hood person in the business where I'm trying to live. This is a business. So you have to also take care of yourself as a business. It's good to be them, but you also have to be business-wise. So I'm learning the business aspect of the professional wrestling business rather than just being the wrestler, showing up, delivering, getting paid, and leaving. I'm learning the whole aspect of the business. So wake up calls always good.

SPEAKER_10 24:17

Oh, yeah. What was harder? The the physical pain or the mental adjustment to everything?

SPEAKER_07 24:28

The mental pain. I uh going through depression and going through uh going through a lot of self-uh self-awareness and knowing how I was. It was more of the mental thing. Like it was easy for me to laugh in people's faces, but when I went behind closed doors, I beat myself up. And um there is a guy who helped me with that. His name is Kirk Blair. Shouts out to Kurt Blair. Um, Kirk actually really helped me with that. Um Kirk showed me that it was okay to not only be vulnerable, but also talk to people uh about it. Um Kurt Blair is one of those, and he's a wrestler too. Uh he's he's trained by Riot City, and he went through a lot. Uh, I watched him lose his fiance in such a fast moment of life. He didn't quit. He quit wrestling for a while, but he came back and he was just he just gave me so much encouragement and energy that he taught me that life is about mental mistakes, it's about mental storms, but you gotta go through the mistake in the storm to get the blessing. So once I got the mental part out of it, I'm from the hood. Physical ain't nothing. I I played it, I played football in the street and we got hit by cars. That's it. So it was just the mental aspect. And I think I think side, dude, I think that's what it is with a lot of men. A lot of men, we don't have physical pain. We massed our mental pain with the word physical. So we we hide behind the fact that we lift weights to get away from the mental rather than deal with the mental. And Kurt showed me that it's okay to deal with the mental. And I think that's what we lack in wrestling is a lot of wrestlers are depressed, but we mask it up with physical pain rather than admitting that it's mental pain.

SPEAKER_10 26:53

Very true.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

That's well said. Couldn't have said it any better than that.

SPEAKER_07 26:59

Yeah, like we we like the and and uh I have a couple of friends who do deathmatch wrestling. And I asked one of my friends, I said, yo, why do you do it? He was like, it's fun. Yeah, it's fun, but why do you do it? And he looked me straight in my face. He said, and he said, because I can hide all my pain. And I said, you know what? That's how we all do it professional wrestling. We we are hot, we just hide most of our pains in the physical aspect room. So it's more mental with me, brother.

SPEAKER_10 27:36

Oh yeah. Do you remember your first match clearly?

SPEAKER_07 27:42

Yes, my very first professional wrestling match was at SWO. It was me, insane Sam got rest his soul, tank, and Zulu versus Jul from Ring of Honor, Ken Phoenix from Ring of Honor, Drethrow, Drethrow Hicks, and Ink Ink. This and um this was right before Jay Deezu and Ken Phoenix went to Ring of Honor for full time. It was a fit, it was a uh it was a it was an eight-man, and I knew nothing. I knew nothing, but it was like kid, this is your big shot. Go in, drop kick, drop kick, drop kick, duck the lie, duck the line, head scissors, head scissors, duck the line, crossbody, turn around, get kicked in the face, get pinned, dude. I did drop kick, drop kick, turn around. He said, change of place. Wow, one, two, three. We go in the back. He says, Good job, kid, with improvising. We just wanted to see Kid you do it. And after that, I wrestled that, and after my first match, I wrestled that SWO for four years.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

Good old SWO. Good old SWO.

SPEAKER_10 29:26

Man, was there a moment uh you questioned if it was four years, the whole wrestling thing?

SPEAKER_07 29:37

Losing four years straight, bro. I spent more money traveling to lose than I spent going to work.

SPEAKER_10 29:53

So what during that time, what kept you quitting when it got hard? What kept me going? Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:01

I ain't no quitter. I ain't no quitter. That that's that I ain't no quitter. And ain't nobody gonna say I quit. Ain't nobody gonna say I quit. Ain't nobody gonna be they people talk about me all day long, but you ain't gonna call me no quitter. That's why I kept going. I had nothing to do. It was because I did not want to call myself a quitter. Right. It's simple. I ain't I progress is a lifestyle, bro. I I live that. I've been that was my motto growing up for a reason. People practice, I make progress. I ain't quitting, I'm gonna just keep going.

SPEAKER_10 30:45

Yeah, it's it's not practice to you. It is a practice to become progressive. You got to, big. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Now, earlier in your now, early in your career, you were still finding your voice and identity. What was that search like for you?

SPEAKER_07 31:08

I went through so many wrestling names. I went through so many git. I one point I had a gothic gimmick. I went by the name Jinx. I wore trip pad. A space ghost, a space ghost shirt. I wore sketch, I wore com I wore uh converses. I honestly came out the cotton mouth kings. I honestly thought that I was got. You understand me? Yes. I went from being got. I went from being goth from being the underdog. Like it was, I wasn't looking, I was right, it was more so me fighting to find a name than a character. I didn't care about the character, I wanted the perfect name.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Oh, that's that's great. At one point, your fans came to know you as the postman. Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_07 32:17

Ah, so they're the they're the wrestling company called Fight Pro. The Pan African uh, they have the Pan African title. Their owner is one of my friends, his name is Christian Kazama. And um, before I became a pro, I used to do backyard wrestling with a bunch of my friends. And they would call me the postman. Uh, because I would, I could, bro. I have you ever see me, I post the hell out of people. Uh if I make you look good in the ring, you want to do a suplex? I can hold my legs up there for 40 minutes if you need me to. I I make people look good. So they started calling me the postman.

SPEAKER_08 33:00

Hey, wait a minute, Mr.

SPEAKER_07 33:02

Postman, because I showed up, I delivered, I got paid, and I left. What does the postman do? He shows up, he delivers, he gets paid, and he leaves. I was, I was literally and because I was one of the ones, I came, did my match, and I left. See, well said, well. So the postman was more of a it was more of a a nickname that my friends gave me, but it really, it really stuck because out of the postman, like I deliver. Like, I deliver great matches.

SPEAKER_10 33:50

This is very true. Yes, can't argue that.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

No, and every match that I've seen of yours, you know, whether it be on YouTube or even watching you at asylum, I've you are so smooth. To me, you are so smooth and and so proficient that it it it does deliver, and you are the real deal, my friend.

SPEAKER_10 34:14

Yeah, that last that last door break that you guys did. I felt sorry for both of you at that point.

SPEAKER_09 34:24

Listen, man, we do we do what we gotta do, man. Yes, sir. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Now, how much of that was character, and how much of that is real all the time?

SPEAKER_07 34:38

All of it. I don't have a character, bro. I put when people that go with your character, I don't have a character. This is me. Like, I am an I am a loudmouth, arrogant, make you want to punch me in my mouth person. My family will tell you, this is me. I I joke all the time, I take nothing serious, I'm always loud, I'm always obnoxious. That is who I am. That is the character work, bro. That's who I am.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Nice, nice. Like what and what did this era teach you of responsibility and the work ethic that you have put in? You get what you put in.

SPEAKER_07 35:25

You get what you put in. Um I wasn't being taken seriously because I didn't take the serious, I didn't take the business seriously. I didn't respect the business. It wasn't until I started to take the business seriously and respect the people before me and to respect the culture of the business that I understood the business. Because unfortunately, the business only gives to who wants it. Not everybody deserves the business. The business gives to who wants it. And if you want this business, then it will give itself to you freely with no questions asked.

SPEAKER_10 36:06

You gotta want it bad enough, though.

SPEAKER_07 36:07

That is what that is what I needed, and that's what that's what it came from me. Like, yeah, uh I just wanted more. I just want more, man. I just want more.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Yeah, it's it's it's it's like, and the way you just explained it, it's it's an addiction. And the more you want, the more you get. So that that's well said. Now that sounds like survival mode. Now, did that version of you know where? I wouldn't necessarily say an addiction, it's more of a competition.

SPEAKER_07 36:42

Okay. Wrestling is a competition. The people who are addicted to stuff, let's it kill you. We're not addicted to wrestling, we're addicted to being better than the next man. Wrestling is going to be here regardless whether I'm here or not. I'm not in competition with wrestling, I'm in competition with the people inside of the profession that I'm in. So my battle is not to be the best, the best person in that in there. No, my my job is to be better than the guy that's in my locker room. Because there's a lot of great, there's a lot, and here, and there's a lot of great wrestlers as people, but when it comes down to how bad they want to be the top guy, they just want to wrestle. I want to be the top guy. I want the responsibility. I want to have to go to do the promos. I'm the one that has to do the the vineyard. Like, like there's a lot of stuff that goes into being a top guy. And it's not just holding the title. I'm out here flyering too. I fly you in the ring too. I'm out here still getting, like I said, I'm still I'm still critiquing being critiqued by my trainers. Like, it's a it's a forever door, it's a forever robbing door. Wrestling is the door that has nothing, that owes no one anything. But if you want it, it'll give itself to you freely.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Well said, very true, very true. Well said.

SPEAKER_10 38:23

Now, somewhere along the line with you, the switch flipped, and the king of the hood emerged. What changed inside you for that to flip the switch?

SPEAKER_04 38:40

I'd be quick. I'll show you. This.

SPEAKER_07 38:54

This. This is what made me change. This, this right here, busting my ass, losing for four years, going up and down the roads of Baltimore and PA and West Virginia. This right here, winning King of Merlin. This is the reason why I became the king of the hood. And you know the funny part about it was I was always the king of the hood. I just had to bring it out. Remember, I said earlier, this is not a gimmick to me. I'm from the hood. I'm from the hood. You, y'all just, y'all, y'all see where I live at. I live in the hood. I I am, this is who I am. So it wasn't about just what flipped. It's what I just cut on. I am the king. Like, this is not a gimmick to me, bro. Like, I am the breadwinner of the fam. Look at the I honestly look at my group. Like, real talk, look at my group. Outside of my group, even outside of the professional wrestling business, we all are stacked. I do HVAC. Doyu is a supervisor, flying planes all over the world, freaking OG pops. That man has more businesses than Jesus Christ had disciples. And that says a lot.

SPEAKER_06 40:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_07 40:15

My young boy Demo, who hasn't been seen because he's been he's been getting him stuff, hit his stuff together. Like, it's it's not a gimmick to me, bro. Like, it's this is the real deal. Like, when you come to Baltimore, you're not gonna find me in the county, you find me in the hood. You find me in the hood. I'm from the hood. I live in the hood. I don't do my promos outside of the hood. I I I brought wrestling to where I'm from. I can walk outside my door and go on the block where all the little hood guys are, and whatever they're gonna say, that's the king of the hood. That's the wrestler. They know what I am. They got they, but and guess what they know? At any given moment, if I need them, they there.

SPEAKER_09 41:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 41:08

So the king of the hood was always there, and and and it's crazy because Ellsworth was the one who told me. He was like, bro, you should just be yourself. Like, I won King of Maryland. I'm I'm I'm already the I'm I was already the king of the hood. Winning King of Maryland just solidified it. Winning the world title solidified it. Like, my first night winning that, I wrestled Callisto and Chris Slade. I wrestled not one, not two, but three matches in that night in front of a bunch of hood kids. I won that title in front of a bunch of kids from urban cities and boys and girls clubs.

SPEAKER_10 41:54

Nice, man.

SPEAKER_07 41:55

That's what made me the king of the hood. Because I bring something that these kids will never be able to have or see. Hope. That's how I became the king of the hood. Same a gimmick. When I won, those kids called me king. They went back to the hood and they told their families about me. I walk down the streets and people acknowledge me as the king of the hood. It ain't a gimmick. I don't have to fit crazy. I don't. I live it.

SPEAKER_10 42:38

Walk us through the night you won the ACW Heavyweight Championship. Besides just the moniker and the the hope that it brang, what did that moment feel like just for you itself?

SPEAKER_07 42:57

I cried. It was more winning that night was a lot of fun. But being in the ring with Ellsworth and just having my family there, my friends, the kids. It was a great night. Like I never, I never thought I would be a world champion. I literally, I said to myself, I want to win a world title. If I win a world title, I retire. And when I became ACW champion that night, I cried. We all cried, we hugged, and I got better. I went home, I put the title, I put the title next to the King of Merlin trophy, and something clicked in me. Something clicked in me. And was like, look at you. You're the king of Merlin. And you are the king to these kids of the hood. Oh shit. King of the hood. And when and Jimmy started calling me, yo, King of the Hood. And it made sense because all the kids like, yeah, he's the king of the hood. That's fam. It all makes sense.

SPEAKER_10 44:32

What was the pressure that nobody warned you about being the king of the hood? The responsibility and everything else.

SPEAKER_07 44:57

Um it's a no one told me the res You have to grow up. You have to grow up. Um, when you have someone who's entrusting you not only with the title that costs a lot of money, not just something that they have built, something that they have purchased, but they are entrusting you with their company. You are it. If the main event goes south, the whole show goes south. You are it, you are the go-to man to the promoter. It is a lot of freaking pressure because you can't be outside, like, and Eldurf always said that you never know who's watching. You never know who's watching. I've been in Walmart, and kids have walked up to me with their parents, or somebody walked up to me. Ain't you the wrestler? Yeah. Hey, we watch you, and we watch you at the power plant show. Oh, thank you. And I walk off like, man, good thing I wasn't cussing nobody out today in real life. Because it the pressure is real, but it's worth it. Being the man is worth it.

SPEAKER_10 46:24

So, did it feel like uh validation or did it add a little bit of weight that you weren't prepared for right away?

SPEAKER_07 46:37

When I was told I was winning the title the night before, I didn't believe it. I was in the gym. Boy, I sat in that gym and that sauna for about two hours trying to because I had to wrestle three matches. Now, mind you, my first match of the night was against Callisto and Slade. That was, yeah, that that's to the to wrestle two WWE guys in the same night. Yeah. Like, Calisto's another one that I can I can I can text and say, hey, bruh, this is the like he taught me some Lutador stuff, and when I sent it to him, he was like, Yeah, now I can show you some more. So it's like it puts pressure on you, but it opens up doors.

SPEAKER_10 47:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_07 47:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_10 47:35

Yeah, Callisto's one that could run you ragged too in the ring, too. So you definitely need to be prepared for that.

SPEAKER_07 47:40

Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god, Callisto does things that you be like, oh brother. But yeah, man, it it it's pressure, but it's great pressure.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

Now, you didn't just stay in one place, like you expanded into the fine order of wrestling. What drew you there? Money. I am about money.

SPEAKER_07 48:18

When you want the best, you bring in the best. So they brought in me, and they brought in my tag team partner, the hitman for hire, Mr. Grimm. And when you bring in guys like me and him, you know what happens? Your company goes up, the stock goes up, people want to know who you are, and people want to be where you are. So that's what happens. That DOW is great because of me. DOW is great because of my tag team partner. We made DOW great, and then we allowed guys like Crazy Shea to come into our place. We allowed guys like that skinny guy that Grimm killed. We allowed guys like the cowboy Rico Hendricks. We allow people to come into our establishment to make money, to to make money. Because here's the thing: DOW, we have money. That's why I came to DOW. I came to collect checks and to defend titles and to kick faces in. And I've been doing it for a very long time. That's why I am the DOW world heavyweight champion. Money knows talent, and the money knew the talent.

SPEAKER_06 49:49

Very well said.

SPEAKER_07 50:03

And what happened? Not only did I beat one for the DOW title, now I hold one of their titles. A hardcore title. So not only am I the king of the hood, I'm also the king of the snowy mountains.

SPEAKER_10 50:29

He's the king of the asylum.

SPEAKER_08 50:31

I'm the king of the asylum.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Yes. Now, how did holding gold in multiple promotions change your mindset?

SPEAKER_07 50:41

Did you not just hear what I said, Mike? I did. So why would you ask me that question, Mike? I just answered that question, Mike. Next question. I'm starting to think you're trying to sabotage me. Why are you not being like Manny? Why are you not being like Manny?

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Nah, we're we're being like Manny.

SPEAKER_07 51:04

Are you a crazy Shea fan? Are you hurt that I took his title? Are you hurt that are you hurt that I took the uh that I beat uh Polanco, whatever his name is, or Zorro, El Game Tour, or whatever you want to be? Are you mad?

SPEAKER_03 51:19

No, not mad, brother. Not mad at all.

SPEAKER_08 51:22

Because I feel a lot of hostility. Don't too many, don't too many, don't you feel a lot of hostility from this brother?

SPEAKER_07 51:30

He's pausing on his questions. He's asking me the same question. Are you okay, Mike?

SPEAKER_03 51:37

I'm fine, man. I'm fine. What's the difference about the DOW locker room?

SPEAKER_07 51:42

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_03 51:43

No, I'm not man.

SPEAKER_06 51:44

It's king to you.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

Okay?

SPEAKER_07 51:46

Refer to me.

SPEAKER_06 51:47

Try it again, Mike. King of the hood.

SPEAKER_05 51:51

No, you say yes, king. Come on, Mike. Be like Manny. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

Now ask me the next question. What's it? What's it what's so different about the DOW locker room?

SPEAKER_06 52:07

Next question, Mike. I'm the champion. You're asking me about how you need to be asking Crazy Shay and all those other people who come into my fed. You need to ask them that question. I'm the champion. I I am the I am the locker room.

SPEAKER_05 52:25

I just answered that question 10 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

This is true. Okay, then who's had when things have gotten heavy, who's had your back? Clearly, not you, Mike.

SPEAKER_06 52:40

Manny has my back.

SPEAKER_05 52:42

You know who has my back? The fam. Me, myself, and I. That's who has my back.

SPEAKER_07 52:51

Not you, Mike. Yeah, drink some, drink some water, Mike. Drink some Coca-Cola. Be like Manny. Be biased. See, this is why I uh I agreed to do this with Manny. Can I knew somewhere along the line, Crazy She would have bring his little fans over here? Yeah, keep going.

SPEAKER_06 53:11

What's the next question, Mike?

SPEAKER_03 53:16

Who believed in you before the fans did?

SPEAKER_05 53:21

Didn't I answer that question too again, Mike? Me, me, me, me, me, me, me. The king. The man who holds not one, not two, but three titles. Me, Mike. When I get sad, you know who you know who makes me happy when I get sad?

SPEAKER_03 53:50

You.

SPEAKER_06 53:51

The titles. I sleep with the asylum hardcore title on the left.

SPEAKER_07 53:57

I sleep with the ACW title on the right. And I lay on the DOW title as a pillow. That's who comforts me at night.

SPEAKER_06 54:09

That's who makes me happy. The king is only happy when I have gold and I have money. Okay, Mike? What's your next question? Because you've got Manny over here about to laugh because he knew this was gonna happen. He knew that you were gonna take the king off. And god damn it, you're taking me off. Let me ask you some questions, Mike. Who's your favorite wrestler in asylum, Mike?

SPEAKER_07 54:45

You're taking too long. Who's your favorite wrestler? Watch this. Manny, who's your favorite wrestler in asylum?

SPEAKER_10 54:52

You right now, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 54:54

You see how good that is? That's an unbiased person.

SPEAKER_06 55:00

You, my friend, are neither biased. Are you the guy that was talking to me during intermission?

SPEAKER_07 55:09

Oh no. Not to last you. Who was the guy that you remind me of that guy who was trying to sabotage me at the show, too? See, you know what? You don't get to talk to me. Mike, you're banned. Manny, answer me the next question. Mike is banned for the next 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_10 55:26

Is there anything that you think the fans might have misunderstood about Van Williams? I'm a good guy.

SPEAKER_05 55:34

I'm a good guy. I am a nice. Look, ask Mike. I'm very nice. I didn't, I didn't, Mike.

SPEAKER_07 55:45

I haven't came to your house yet and spoke to you. Even though I know what you live at. I do know what you live at. I know what you drive. Why? Because I'm the king and I know these things. But I'm a real good guy. If you're nice to me, I'm nice to you. It's simple. You give me what I want, and we're having fun.

SPEAKER_05 56:11

See, I'm a nice guy, ain't I, Mike? You are. No, yes, king. Ain't I Mike? Yes, king. Don't you love me, Mike? Yes, king. Don't I put food on your table, Mike?

SPEAKER_03 56:27

Yes, king.

SPEAKER_07 56:32

Thank you. I'm a nice person. I've never been a bad person. All the fans in the silum, for some reason, they throw, they throw putty at me, they get silly string. They they they call me all types of names, all because y'all like crazy shea more than me. But I'm I'm the nice person. I drive five hours to give you great wrestling. Y'all don't bring me sheets, y'all don't bring me ice cream, y'all don't bring me sales service, y'all don't even give me the Wi-Fi password.

SPEAKER_06 57:14

I am very nice to y'all people. Y'all make me this way.

SPEAKER_07 57:21

So, the clear up the air, the king of the hood, the king of Maryland, the king of asylum, I am a nice person, and I want everybody in my kingdom to live a great life.

SPEAKER_06 57:38

Ain't that right, Mike?

SPEAKER_07 57:41

Yes. Yes, what, Mike? Yes, king. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Next question.

SPEAKER_10 57:52

You want to take this one, Mike? What advice? What advice?

SPEAKER_01 58:01

All right.

SPEAKER_09 58:04

Do fans. No, what advice? Oh. What advice?

SPEAKER_07 58:11

Yeah, come on, Mike. Take it up. Come on, Mike. Listen to your boss. He's teaching you, teaching you a job.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

Oh, God. What advice? Come on, Mike. What advice would you give to a kid walking into a training tomorrow?

SPEAKER_07 58:26

Okay, don't be like Mike. Go over your notes before you actually learn how to do an interview. Don't be like Mike. Be like Manny. Make progress. That's what I would tell a kid. Now, all jokes aside, I like messing with you, Mike. All jokes aside.

SPEAKER_03 58:47

I got nothing for left for you. You don't know.

SPEAKER_07 58:49

I love y'all. Now, all jokes aside, um, just be yourself. Um, there's a lot of people who go into these wrestling uh schools and they want to be here. That's what they are.

SPEAKER_08 59:09

Be this larger than life.

SPEAKER_07 59:11

Be calm. At the end of the day, we're all paying our money to do something we love. Not not everybody's gonna make it to WWE, not everybody's gonna make it to TNA, AEW, CMLL, House of Glory, Reality Wrestling. A lot of us ain't gonna make it there. A lot of people are just gonna be local legends. Hi, Crazy Shay. People are gonna be local legends, but then you'll have people like the king who's trying to take this and make it better. I tell kids all the time, look at guys like me, uh jokes, Crazy Shay, uh Ellsworth, Ruckus, all of the all of us, all of them guys, they started before me, and they paved the way. And I respect that. I respect that. As much as Crazy Shay is one of my biggest rivals right now. If it wasn't for his crazy antics, there wouldn't be room for me to wrestle. If it wasn't for Ellsworth's crazy notions in the ring, there wouldn't be room for me to grow. Whether for ruckus doing flips and revolutionizing what we thought about high-flying wrestling, there would be no room for us. So I always I would always tell students, look at who paved the way before you and learn from that. Because yes, the wrestling business is forever evolving, but the rules stay the same. The rules stayed the same. So just go in there with a clear mind. That's it.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:12

Okay, very well said. So, this is why we do this show. Not just to talk about wins and losses, but to understand the people who carry the weight. Vam, thank you for trusting us with your story. To everyone listening, if this conversation moved you, share it. Someone out there needs to hear it. This has been the Canvas Kings Podcast. Until next time, wipe your feet when you get in the ring and pay respect to people who have been there before you. See you next time. Boom.