Episode 13 - Bonus Episode! Survival Guide for GETTING STARTED as a GP Vet

🚨 Starting your first GP vet job soon? Read this before your first consult…

Episode 13 is here — and this one’s for every vet who’s about to take that leap into practice (or remembers exactly how daunting it felt 👀).

In this Bonus Episode, we break down your ultimate survival guide to getting started as a GP vet — from landing the right job to actually surviving those first few weeks on the clinic floor.

We cover:
 • How to choose the right first job (and the red flags you should NEVER ignore)
• What your first day really looks like vs expectations
• How to build confidence when you feel completely out of your depth
• The mistakes most new grads make (and how to avoid them)
• Tips to settle in, earn trust, and actually enjoy those early months

Whether you’re a final-year student, a new grad, or a seasoned vet wanting a reminder of where it all began — this episode is honest, practical, and exactly what we wish we had starting out.

🎧 Listen now and start your career the right way.

On the hunt for the perfect job?! Click this link to help us find the perfect one for you! https://www.chattyvets.com/vet-and-rvn-jobs-shownotes

📖 Read more & explore our blog:
 https://www.chattyvets.com/blog

📲 Follow us for more:
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thechattyvetspodcast

💬 Got thoughts on these topics? We’d love to hear them — drop us a message or join the conversation online.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:09

Welcome back to the Chatty Vets Pod. I'm Brendan.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

And I'm Charlotte. Thank you for tuning in.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

Welcome to our second podcast of April, our next bonus episode. We're changing things up a little bit today and releasing our first episode within a new series. We're starting a survival guide to GP practice.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Yeah, this is very exciting. So we know that we have a lot of vet students and new grads who listen regularly to the pods, as well as professionals who might have had a career break and have then come back into the vet world after a bit of time off. So we wanted to focus a little mini-series of bonus episodes scattered across the next few months to chat about how we s how we would recommend to survive in the crazy world of GP practice.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

So today we're focusing on the very beginning of our careers in the GP world from what to look for in your first job, the definite musts, and absolute no-nos, how to survive your first month working in practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah, we're looking forward to it. So, but just before we get stuck in, for any of you that can see us on video, and Brendan is sporting our absolutely fabulous new scrub. So we wanted to say a massive thank you to Happy Thread Scrubs. They've been incredible and they have helped us to design our own chatty vet scrubs, which are amazing. So I've currently don't come down to Kent for a week because my life is all over the place. So mine are up in Wales and have been delivered, but I don't yet have them. So hopefully the next time you see us both together, we'll both be in beautiful teal.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

Yes, a big thank you to Happy Threads for our amazingly comfortable, slightly stretchy, and really lovely, soft new scrubs. Um, and we look forward to wearing them for every pod going forth.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yeah, and I'm sure I will post a picture on social media of me sporting them once I've got them when I'm back in Wales as well. So you can all look forward to that. Anyway, let's get back to the topic that we were going to speak about. So let's get stuck in. I don't know about you, Brendan, but I was terrified when I first started in practice. It is such a massive leap from having no responsibility as a student and being told what to do and where to go and how to do things and having someone watch your every move to being alone in a consult room with a client and being expected to know the answers. I found that so scary when we first started. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Do you know what? As you were telling me that, I was just thinking back to my first week in practice and I remember a story. I thought, because you're really trying to get the consult right and it's the relationship with the client because you're so conscious that you look young and inexperienced, aren't you? And um, I did a bit of chatting onto this lovely man with his Labrador, and uh, I was like, oh, Labrador this, blah, blah, blah, Labrador that. And he was very friendly and smiling and lovely. And as he walked out on his lead, it said, I love golden retrievers.

SPEAKER_05 2:50

It's literally as he walked out, and I was like, cringe. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Um Yeah, I mean, the the thing is that when you first start in practice, nobody quite tells you how scary it's gonna feel. And I think everyone's like, Oh, you'll be fine, and you know, they set you up with all the groundwork to be prepared. But it's things like that. It's like you don't even think about, oh God, people are gonna expect me to remember the breeds of dogs that they have. I remember my first few weeks in veterinary as feeling a little bit like, you know, like when you go to uni, everyone always says, Oh, Freshers Week's amazing, it's so much fun, you're gonna have the best time ever, you're gonna be out every night, blah, blah, blah. I found Freshers Week so scary because you get plonked in a place that you've never been before. You don't know anybody that you meet, you're expected to go out and have a drink with these people that you're like, oh, I don't even know who you are. And it it was kind of a bit like that for me being in practice. Like you're you're so excited and you get that big work up to it, but then you get to it and you're like, oh my God. So, but everyone feels like that. It's it's overwhelming and it's it's a lot, but that's what we're gonna try and talk you through in this episode. Everyone is gonna feel like that, and it's just it's the way that it is, and it you can't really get around that feeling. But we want to try and help talk you through how to get through those first few weeks and how to choose that perfect job. So everyone is scared. Don't worry, you will not be on your own.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Yeah, you that's a good parallel, that because I my first job I chose really carefully to be somewhere where they were gonna kind of baby me, really, yeah, and and nurture me. And so then because I felt like I was a baby and I felt like I was being nurtured, I actually felt okay because I I didn't put that expectation on myself that I was gonna be like, you know, super swish and get everything perfect. Um I think it was like I had every other appointment and had obviously the reception scene would have been without me realizing it, probably making sure I had the nicest people and the the the the best consults. So uh yeah, I didn't have to too much pressure, but yeah, it's it's the environment you choose, isn't it? I think a cold clinical place where it feels much more high expectation would be a horrible place to start your first job, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yeah, and that's the thing that we wanted to focus on first in this episode is you spend all this time and all this effort going through vet school. And actually, it's not so much about starting, it's about choosing that first job initially, because you want to make sure that you're in the right environment to be able to start your career and start growing and start learning and being supported. And, you know, we all know that the dropout rate in veterinary is huge. We know that mental health can really take a toll. We know that burnout's a big thing. And the biggest thing that we will say, and we will discuss a bit more in this episode, is you need to support yourself in your first job and you need to make sure that the job that you choose is going to support you because that support is the biggest thing that you need. When I chose my first job, don't get me wrong, the practice was amazing. I loved all the people there. I learned a hell of a lot. But the reason why I chose that job is I'd done loads of EMS there and I learned loads because they were so busy, which was great because my exposure was massive, but because it was so busy, I burnt out. So I got a year in and was like, I can't do this anymore because it was too much. So I ended up moving on a year after I'd qualified to somewhere different because I it it just got too much. And I think that now looking back, I'm I'm I'm almost glad I had that start because it it sort of projected my career a bit quicker. But you know, I was doing bitch pays on my own on two, three days into work, and that's not normal. It was just it it I was working in that kind of crazy busy practice. But if I could turn around and do it again, maybe it would have been nicer to have been somewhere a bit more chilled and been able to take the time and have more support and more check-ins with my mentor and all that sort of stuff. So it's, you know, there's never going to be there's there's never a perfect job, don't get me wrong, but I think it it's really worth taking the time to think about if you get offered a job, what do you really like about it? What are the pros, what are the cons, and really thinking it through rather than just being like, oh my god, they've offered me a job, yeah, let's take it. So but I mean, in in terms of what you think actually matters when you're looking into a job, Brandon, what do you reckon would be your top tips in terms of things that you would really want a job to be offering you when you're looking for your first job as a GP vet?

SPEAKER_04 7:09

This is a very long time ago, but um yeah, I think um I suppose looking at it from that perspective, it's it's just a relationship, it's about the team around you, isn't it? You don't want them to be all jaded and negative. That's that's so hard to achieve now, isn't it? Because I think there is an element of being um of everywhere being a little bit understaffed and and and jaded. But if you're their fifth new grad in four years, I would say that even the most enthusiastic and helpful staff members aren't going to be quite as obliging to you because you can only be supportive so much. Yeah, a high turnover of staff is is a massive red flag kind of issue, isn't it? Have it have and are you looking for that kind of kindness and you're looking for a a slightly in stark contrast to you. I chose a really quiet first job. And I remember we used to go out so much at the weekends, we used to say that the weeks at work were uh where we recovered. But I wonder if those days have gone a little bit and it's just a bit it's more busy now.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Yeah, yeah. I think it's in terms of like big green flags that you'd be wanting to look for in a job. I know any practice that you qualify into now, you should have a specific GDP advisor, but making sure that you have someone that you can have regular mentor checks with once a week, once every couple of weeks, you have a sit down with that mentor and say, How am I doing? What can I do better? Blah, blah, blah. Having someone scheduled with you on your surgery day, so you're not expected to be there on your own from day one. Choosing a job that is more about team culture and the environment that you work in than about all the bells and whistles that they have in terms of the equipment. And sort of on the same page as that, choosing a job for the support you're gonna get and the team environment and how it feels when you're there, how much people enjoy the work rather than how much you're getting paid. Because often a lot of the jobs that have a higher salary are having to offer a higher salary for a reason because a lot of people aren't loving it there. Having a job that's gonna give you a fairly good CPD budget. So it's gonna support you into further learning, you know, and to sort of if, for example, you're struggling with dentals and you want to go on a dental CPD, are they gonna support you in doing that? It's asking those kind of questions. You want someone that's gonna support your learning and help to cushion you and help you grow. In terms of you spoke about like red flags, what do you think would put you off a job if you what attributes of a first job would make you think, no, I'm definitely not going to do that as a new grad?

SPEAKER_04 9:32

If you're too busy, you haven't got time to go back over and self-reflect about the cases you've had. I think there's an optimum somewhere in the middle where you don't want it like a quiet branch practice where there's next to nothing. And I think then what happens is if it's too quiet, you get more stressed by the big things that come in. But you don't want it so busy you haven't got time to go back over and spend more time to kind of look at what you did and go, actually, I should have done that, or I could do this, or I've got you know, so you want that kind of sweet spot in the middle, which is you could argue it's never gonna happen all the time through the whole year like that, but as long as if most of the year you've got that space to to self-reflect, but enough difficulty that you're not too safe because you do need to acquire experience. Like I remember uh I had a a a young grad work I was working with, and they were at somewhere where they rarely saw a block bladder. So when they got a block bladder cat, it was like mega stressed for them.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

I don't know, it's not it's probably more of an ETC kind of kind of situation. But the point is, if you got if you have something every month, then you'll you'll get better at it.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah, exactly. For me, it's that if if you've been to a practice on EMS and you've been in and seen how it works, then you sort of get the vibe as to if you're rushed off your feet all day, every day, and you're loving it on EMS because you're like, oh, I'm getting to do loads and I'm learning so much, just take a step back to think, okay, if I was actually the vet in this situation and I was having to do all the consults, do all the surgeries, write all my notes, call all the owners, like work out what the hell the lab results mean and then talk to the owners about it, set up a referral for a dog that's really unwell. If that was actually you, are you going to get time to breathe during the day? Are you going to be able to eat lunch? Are you going to leave work on time? Those things don't really bother you as a student because you love the learning. When you're working, it gets very tiring very quickly. So just think about it. And if you haven't been on EMS, ask to go and just shadow someone for a day and just say, just get the lay of the land. Are people running around like headless chickens or are people on their phones not doing anything? You don't want either of those. You want to be somewhere in the middle because, like you say, you want enough caseload where you're learning, but not so much that it's actually inhibiting your learning because you can't work out what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong, because you get no reflective time. Other things for me in terms of red flags would be soul charge. You should never be expected to be soul charge in your first few months as a new grad. That's crazy to me. So if a job is expecting you to do that, that is not the right job for you. If they're not giving you a named mentor, if they're saying that they're too busy to give you regular checkbacks with that mentor, or they're saying that there's not going to be somebody else around when you're consulting to be able to give you hand, if you've got questions, like Brendan said, if they've got a really high staff turnover, so people aren't wanting to stay in that job. And one of the big ones for me is yes, salary might not be the biggest thing when you're applying for a job in the first place. But my thing that I hate about when I hear about new jobs that are coming out is if they do unpaid overtime. If someone is expecting you to work past the hours that you're contracted to do, for me, that should always be paid. And it's not always the case. So it's something I would ask because you can say, I'm very happy to stay if something runs over and I'm in theatre or I've got a really sick case and it's not stable enough to transfer. Absolutely, that's part of our job. We have to stay till the job's done. That's just one of the things that we have to deal with as vets. But you should never be expected to be doing that unpaid. If you're working 13 hour days because you've had to stay late for a certain reason, you should be getting paid for that.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

I was going to say there is a little bit of um of um uh of of is it quid pro quo about that? If you're if if you're also getting loads of support when it is quieter at times, and then once you're asked to stay late to to help out, there is a little bit of the your boss will probably be quite, you know, if you're then saying, Oh, I want overtime. So you you have to look at the whole picture. If it's a regular thing that you're doing extra work and you're busy all through the day, uh yeah, then obviously, yes, it's really important that you're treated fairly. The other point I was gonna make, which was quite a big point, is don't focus too much on what it says on paper, because every job I've had, what it says are your hours, what it says are what they're gonna provide you and things, there's a huge discrepancy between what they say and then when you turn up and do the job for five months, what you experience. And I don't think you can know for sure. So you can do what you can to try and work things out because you know, when you turn up there, it might be a quiet day, it might be a busy day, you might get the wrong impression, you know. You can look a little bit through the diary to try and get a feel. Is this a normal day? Is it not? But I think ultimately it's talking to the staff and then getting the feedback and really listening to them. They will give you the clues and and and read into what they're saying because they might kind of say things, you know, indirectly.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah, 100%. Just to give you the impression.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Yeah, and it's that nursing team usually, because they know what's what's gonna be demanded of you. They in the end, it's the nursing team that suffer when you can't, you know, when you're not doing, you know, you're not able to do the job. Yeah. So yeah, having those those little chats.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Yeah, I think it's really important. I mean, obviously, you're gonna be speaking to the boss about the actual job and what they can offer you and all that sort of stuff. Speak to the rest of the team, like Brendan said, your nursing team, the other vets, get a feel for how happy they are in their job. Because if you walk in somewhere and everyone smiles and everyone gets on really well, that tells you ding, ding, ding, great environment to work in and everybody loves it. That is a massive thing. You know, how are people when they're at work, if everyone is miserable and hating their life, it's probably gonna mean that you're gonna be the same in a few months' time if you take that job. So, yeah, it's it's just getting the vibe of how everyone feels working there as well as a is a big thing. People are saying, Oh, yeah, I've been here six years and I love it, I don't want to move. Great. There's obviously a reason why they're staying. So chatting to the staff that work there is a massive thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

The reception team are really good at that as well. And the other thing you can find out from the reception team, which is really helpful, is whether you always have a lunch break, whether you get out on time. Or then they'll be like, God knows, the closing time's six o'clock, but no, we always have to expect it to stay late because of if something comes in it needs working up. You know, you'll get all the little inside information from the from the staff, so you need to engineer a way of talking to them.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Yeah, without the boss's ear, so you can get the get the low down.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Um, do you know the other thing we said about staff turnover? I can always pick it up within five minutes at a new practice because if there's a high staff staff turnover and you walk in the building, everyone just looks past you. No one really no one thinks twice about you. But when you go somewhere where you're gonna be the new vet starting, and they're all like, who's it gonna be? You you'll feel this intensity around you, won't you? Like everyone's curious about you. I think that's a really good clue, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, true. I mean, my first job was great in terms of support, it was crazy busy, but I I learned a hell of a lot from the people that I worked with. But from my experience, there are a lot of people that get thrown into jobs where they are sold charged way too early. I mean, I was, I don't know if I've ever told you the story, Brendan. I think I probably have, but there was a a girl that called, I think she was working for, I won't say where, but she was working for a corporate practice and she joined their grad scheme and she had been put sole charge. And it from what it sounded like, I think she was only a month or two qualified and she was on her own. And what had happened is she'd had this emergency come in, had absolutely no idea what to do, had panicked, and was trying to call round different practices to talk to another vet to say, what the hell do I do? Anyway, I ended up answering the phone. I was locoming in another practice, like I don't know, 20 miles down the road. And she said, I'm really worried. I've got a cat with a diaphragmatic hernia and I don't know what to do. And I was like, Okay, like chill, it's fine. I said, Is it on oxygen? How's its breathing? And she went, Oh, it's breathing's fine. And I was thinking, it's diaphragmatic hernia. So I said, Okay, well, what makes you think it's a diaphragmatic hernia? And she said, Well, it's off its back legs. And I thought, Well, okay, she's panicked, she's put, she's got gun pattern recognition with no experience and thought maybe it's been hit by a car because it's off its back legs. So it must have a diaphragmatic hernia. That must have been where her brain's gone because she's in panic mode, right? She's not thinking. So I was like, right, okay. So I said, okay, well, if it's off its back legs, I said, has it got any movement in those back legs? And she said, Oh no. And I thought, oh, okay, I think I know where this is going. I was like, right, can you feel her feet? I said, has she got any pain sensation in her feet? Are they cold? And she went, oh yeah, they're freezing cold. And no, I'm pinching her toes and she's not feeling anything. I was like, right, take her temperature. What's her temperature? She was like, oh, it's 32. And I thought, this is a thrombus. So I was talking her through the fact that it's likely an FATE, a saddle thrombus, whatever you want to call it. And she went, Oh, I've I've forgotten all about those. And I thought, literally just because she'd gone, she'd done that typical thing where she was trying to figure it out really fast. But again, if she'd have had no one to speak to, she would have been x-raying that cat for a diaphragmatic hernia, not knowing what she was looking for and the x-rays because she was panicking, when actually the cat should have, you know, should have been euthanized from the get-go. She hadn't given any pain relief either because she didn't know what was going on. So, but that's what I mean. You do not want to get yourself in those sort of situations because starting your new job is scary enough as it is, even when you have that support. So if you are left on your own, it is terrifying. And honestly, a day like that is enough to put a bet off their career for the rest of their life and it is not worth risking it. You want to make sure that all this hard work that you've put into getting to the point where you've qualified, you want to invest in yourself and your career and try not to put yourself off it because going through things like that could do. So just be really careful, is what I would suggest.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Yeah. On that topic, I know quite a few vets. I remember when I was three, four, five years qualified that were leaving the profession. They were saying things to me like, Oh, I'm not suited to being a vet, it's not for me, it's not what I thought it would be, or whatever. But when I was looking at the places they were working, and back those days we used to go visit each other and stuff, I could tell that the practices, practices where they were were just not the right place for them at that their stage of their career. But they were taking it personally, they were thinking, well, I'm not a good vet, I'm I'm not suited. Whereas I think that's really important point, especially in your first job. Whatever happens, whatever the outcome is, and if it's miserable or awful, I think, I mean, it is about you as well, obviously, as a vet, but it's mostly about how you're being looked after and nurtured and supported. Now you need to also help your boss by being really honest and open about where your skills lie, where your worries are, trying to get the support you need. But yeah, don't always put it on yourself and then end up leaving the profession.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

That's why those checkbacks are really important with a mentor as well. It gives you time to be really honest and say, look, I'm really struggling with this. Say if it's you're not having time to write your clinical notes, or you're really struggling on what to write, or you really struggle with vomiting dogs, you don't know what to do when a vomiting dog comes in, talk to them about specific things that you're struggling with, because that's how you'll learn. And also being honest and confident in what you can do. If you get to a point in your like, yeah, I'm happy putting IVs in now, or I'm happy with my GA protocols, or I'm happy with, you know, talking to people about fleeing worms and vaccines, when you're ready to step up your consults and say, okay, I'm happy to start seeing more sick things now, relay that as well. Relay your confidence because it's going to be that feedback between you and your mentor that will help you to progress. And a big thing to remember is it is never wrong to move on if you're not happy for whatever reason that is. If you think I'm not learning as much as I should be, or this is way too overwhelming, it's way too much work, or if you don't get on with a lot of people that work there, it might just be that that place isn't for you. And I know that a lot of different professions, if you've had loads of different jobs on your CV, they'll go, oh God, they like jump between job to job to job, like they might not be very employable. I don't think it's like that in veterinary. I think if you have an interview with someone, I've I mean, I've had a lot of jobs. I've not been qualified that long, but I've moved quite a lot. Um, and I've never had someone say, Well, how come you've changed jobs so often? Other people from outside the profession have asked that, but I've never had that within the profession because I think it's it's just something that happens because people understand that if you're not getting the support, or eventually you feel like you've got all of you you can out of that job and you've sort of outgrown it a little bit and you want a bit more of a challenge, or you've relocated, or you want to become a specialist and you want to go do an internship, whatever. It might be. I mean, I've changed jobs once a year since I qualified pretty much. I don't know whether that's just what I will continue to do or whether it's just because I just felt like I'd not found my perfect place yet. I've got a bit closer with every job that I've had, but I've just not found that perfect place. And hopefully now I'm in that place. But it's I don't think it's ever wrong to think you need to be, you know, something's still not quite right. Moving is okay. That's allowed. You know, you are allowed to say, this isn't working for me, I need to move on. So that's the thing as well, is that when you're looking for your first job, remember it doesn't have to be your job forever. It might be, you might love it, you might want to stay for 20 years, but you might also get a six month in in and think, oh no, I don't know if I like this. And that doesn't mean you don't like the profession. It might just be that that job isn't the right thing for you.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Um there isn't a perfect job, is there? Because in different parts of your career in your life, the perfect job will change quite a lot. So um, because I remember thinking, how many years was I then? Uh I was nine years qualified, eight years qualified, and I ended up in this big multidisciplinary hospital, loads of specialists, MRI, CT, and everything. I thought it's my perfect job. But it wasn't my perfect job, but it was a really great experience. I loved having it. Um but what you then realized, oh actually, I quite like flying by the seat of my pants, and I quite like not always having a specialist to kind of send a case to, um, or your family situation changes or whatever, or you know, I think I want to be nearer my parents now. So yeah, I don't think you will find the perfect practice. You've got to look at yourself and what your needs are in your whole life, and then the practice will gear around, like you said, I wanted more experience from, you know, want, you know, whatever. You might want a better ultrasound kit at some point, or you might want a better, you know, overnight facilities for doing more surgery, you know, whatever it is, your needs are going to change all the time. So um look at your whole life and get the job to fit with what you need right now.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Exactly. I mean, it it's a vocation, isn't it? We forget that it is a vocation. And it's not just like uh you move somewhere and you've just got to but find a job that just kind of does and fits and whatever. Your whole life will, in a in a way, as much as you try for it not to, your whole life centers around it, the emotion that you take home, how physically tired you are, when you take home the hours, the people that you work with, the people that I work with are the people that I see the most in my life, far more than my partner, because it's you spend so much time with them. So it's you want to make sure that it's right for your life. And if something's not fitting right, move on. That's okay. Like that is okay. Take the positives from the job that you've had and move on to somewhere better, well, better for that point in your career, that point in where in your life. Okay, so we've been having a little bit of a chat about how to choose your first job. And say you've now got to the point where you found somewhere and you think, actually, this place I think is the one for me. Maybe we should have a little chat about what what to expect from your first day and the discussions you should be having with your employer before you get started. Now, uh I think generally it's worth talking about what your first day is actually going to look like. Because I think a lot of people expect to just get thrown into consults and try and find your feet. But actually, that's not what is the most ideal thing. And generally, to be honest, most practices who are used to having new grads should have a very different day planned out to you. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_04 25:13

Yeah, I think to me that if if an employer isn't immediately bending over backwards to make everything really nice and easy for you, you know, I think your first morning should be off. I don't think it should be clinical work. That's your chance to kind of get used to where things are, get to know the basics, how to use the computer system, how to do forms. You want to be straight away getting an impression that you're going to get support right from the beginning. There's going to be a million things. You can't suddenly, well, most of us can't do four consoles straight away because you're going to get stuck on the basics, like where's the horoscope, or how do I log into this, or how much is a pre-op blood test, or you know, all there's so many little things. But yeah, I would want to be seeing all of that support volunteered from the beginning. And if it's not there, it doesn't sound like they know what they're doing in terms of handling a younger vet or a new vet.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so many different things about the job that you don't get taught at vet school. You don't get taught how to use particular practice management software, you don't get taught what each individual practice is going to have in way of their flea and worming treatment. So I mean, that first day or first morning, however they structure it, should be about where the hell is everything? Where do I find needles, syringes? Where is everything in my consult room? Where do I find the information for this? Familiarising yourself with the dispensary. We all know we're going to give meloxicam to a lot of clients, but do they have metacam or rumicam or loxicom or I'm sure there's more. Like, you know, which one do they have? So how do you find it on the system? Do they have CineLux or do they have Claviceptin? Or there's all these different brand names that you need to know about. Do they have a health plan? If they have a health plan, what does that cover? And do they have, I don't know, NexCard Spectra with Dronsit or do they have brevecto and milprazon? And what do those things cover? You know, familiarising yourself with the stuff that you are going to be talking to clients about day in, day out, the simple stuff, writing it down if you need to so you remember, you know, trying to remember what all of those flea and worming treatments do is a nightmare. So if you can say, okay, these are the ones that we sell, these are the ones that I need to remember, write it in a little pocket notebook. You've got it there. It makes your life a hell of a lot easier. Like, whereas the injectable medications, if you want to give something a moropitant injection, mid-consult, where the hell do you go and get that from? Learning those sort of things on your first day make your life so much easier.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Yeah. What's their policy on neutering? Because that can vary. What's their vaccination policy? How long is it before you have to restart a course? How you know how much lapsed time can you have? For most practices, it's three months, but for some clinics it's different. By the way, on all the non-non-prescription stuff, I um, thanks to a really good receptionist actually, who's a dispensing pharmacist as well, she said you can just I just write on the label, follow the instructions on the leaflet for the non-prescription stuff. And I actually think in a way that's more accurate, isn't it? Because there's probably a load of information on there. Yeah. So um that gets me around having to remember what the dosage is for pro max versus pro-digest and whatever else there is.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Exactly. And I guess that that takes us back to sort of the type of consults that you'll be doing to start off with. I mean, most practices, if they're supportive, will start you off with what's suggested to be the easy stuff first, right? So your flea and worming consults, your vaccine consults, they're ones that we do day in, day out as a vet, and they're the ones that you need to learn to get good at quite quickly. And they're once you get confident doing them, you can then be like, great, let's see a sick dog, let's see one that's vomiting, let's see one that's collapsed. You then gain your confidence because you've then learned how to do a clinical exam, how to write your notes, how to keep to time, etc. Learning the stuff that's going to be relevant to those preventative consults is what you need. So learning what vaccines they stock in the consult, you know, is it do they have leukojep phalogen for cats or do they have TriCat and FELV? Do they have a Nobivac or a canogen vaccine, or have they got like a connection? And when does the data sheet say that I need to use those? Learning those bits in terms of vaccines, learning which flee and worming they use, all of those sorts of things to do with those preventative healthcare consults are going to be the stuff that you need from day one. So that's what they do focus on.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Yeah, do they do animal health certificates in-house or do they send people elsewhere? There's a million things. And the thing is when you're mid-flow in a consult and you rush outside to ask someone, they're all busy. And then your consult suddenly takes an extra 10 minutes, doesn't it? Because you're waiting for for so if you can get as much of that info, but it's hard to know what you need to ask. But yeah, so that but that's definitely another one animal health certificates so varied.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yeah. I think I would say generally, if in the get-go, it's talking about the preventative stuff. So neutering, vaccines, fleeing worming treatment, and then your basic generic medication. So basic types of pain relief that you might send something home with, basic type of antibiotic that you might send something home with. And they will be the ones and your dose of moropitin and where the injectable stuff lives, because that's going to be your stuff that you would give really quite often. Any practice that is used to new grads and used to helping people out when they start should be giving you vaccinations, flea worming treatment, easy type consults, and ideally potentially giving you more time. So instead of having a 15-minute consult, maybe they're giving you 20 to 30 minutes for a consult for your first few days to let you find your feet. That is sensible, that is recommended, that's what we think will make a big difference for you. One, if your practice aren't suggesting that, why aren't they? And are they going to be supporting you as much as they should be? Because that's quite an obvious way to help you out. Them investing into you to start off with to allow you to find your feet and do things a bit slower to start off with will mean that ultimately you get better and more confident at your job quicker. That kind of leads us on nicely into our sort of practical survival tips, if you like. Tips that we would give you to help you do really well in your first job and to really feel confident faster. One of the big things that we would say, build a really great rapport and communication with the rest of your team. Your nurses and your actors or VCAs are your best friends. You will spend the majority of your time with them. They will be able to help you answer any questions that you might have initially, even clinical stuff. They will know what vaccine protocol, what flea and worm in protocol. They will know basics in terms of what to do in a console if you're stuck. They will be your godsenders in practice. So get on with them, build a relationship with them, and it will make your life so much easier. But two makes you happier because you have build like really great friendship with a lot of the people that you work with. And we spend a lot of time at work in quite emotional situations sometimes. So building that report is massive, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 31:54

On the subject of nurses, the way that us vets talk to each other is different from the way a nurse explains something to you about how to do something. Now, both have got validity, but I think there are some times where, as a vet, you're looking for an answer that's more vetty and the nurse is going to be suggesting something. And it's not sounding vetty in that they're not going, oh, can you use aminoglycosides for a gram-negative act fection? They might go, why don't you use this antibody because the other vet uses it? That kind of thing. And it's really important, even if you're not liking the explanation, that you're listening to what the experienced nursing team are telling you, because they're coming at it from a different perspective, but it's got just as much validity, if not more, because they're seeing what all the vets are doing, they're seeing what's being done time and time again. And it's it's really important you take that on board and listen, even if you're not getting the vet insight into why you're doing it like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

100%, yeah. And there's, I mean, when I first started emergency work, but I'd never done soul charge emergency work before. And my first ever GDB that I saw, it walked in and the nurse went, That's GDB. Straight away. She hadn't even looked at the animal, and I was like, How do you know? She went, I just know. And it was. They are so clever and so good at what they do. Really take the time to listen to them, learn from them, build that rapport with them because it will make your life so much easier and so much nicer in terms of place to work.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Charlotte, what about that? Um, you know, that thing, if you're not if you don't, if you don't make a good relationship with your nurses, you go out back with something, and then everyone's just like looking down at the floor and ignoring you, and you're like, I need help with this. So yeah, you don't want to be in that situation where people are just all walking out of the room as you walk in, so you've got no help. The reception team is the other biggie, isn't it? Because you don't realize it, but they control everything that comes into the practice when it's coming in and who they're gonna see, and they know everyone often as well. So they know the stinking client that's really difficult and all of this. So be really nice to them and talk to them plenty, get the inside information because they might say to you, Oh, that client, best to be really careful with that client because da di da has happened in the past or whatever. Give yourself time to uh get chatting with the reception team and they'll be one of your greatest allies, actually, as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Absolutely, yeah. I've worked in a few places where if especially in out of hours, people have never met me before. And it's the same when you're a new grad, right? You're very new to the practice, the people that you're gonna see is likely gonna be the face first time you've seen that client. So you are a new vet to them regardless of how long you've been qualified. And if your reception team, if if they're chatting to the client and the client goes, Oh, I've never seen that vet before, if they go, they're brand new, but they're great, they're really lovely. And if they have that perception of you, you already start the console off on a good foot because that client is gonna think, Oh, they're gonna be really nice. Like, great, I'm in good hands because the reception team like them, gold star from the get-go. Like, make sure you get on with them.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

That's totally good advice. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah. And I guess sticking to the rapport side of things, same way that you want to build rapport with your team, rapport with your clients is massive. Okay. There is so much. I would probably say in a vaccination consult, someone that comes to see you, when their animal is not unwell, they will remember more the conversation that you've had with them and how you've made that client and that animal feel far above what you've actually done clinically in that consult, right? So if if you're talking to them about their day, if you're saying, oh, you're doing anything nice at the weekend, if you're getting down on the floor and giving that dog loads of fuss, or you're letting the cat roam around the consult room and you're being really respectful of their space, or you're giving them loads of stroke if they're furring and trying to come near you, they will remember that and think, oh, great that, because they love the relationship that they're building with you already. I remember there was this one lady who she was probably about 70 odd, working in a mixed practice. And clinically, she was an awful practitioner, awful, would never have sent my dogs to her after I'd seen what she was doing behind the scenes. But clients loved her because she had an amazing rapport with them. She had great communication and she'd really chat and she'd know them personally. So if people can build that relationship with you verbally in a consult room, they will trust you. So even if your clinical standards aren't up to scratch to start off with, which they're not going to be because you don't know everything to start off with, it will take you a while to get into your flow. If you can get clients on side, it'll make the world of difference for you.

SPEAKER_04 36:17

So we we both do emergency, like you say, so we have to build a rapport quickly. So I if I do a couple of my tips and you you might have some tips that you've got, what one of mine is trying to find out everything about them before they come into the consult room, which I can do fairly quickly now. But I know it's may not be practical, but if you can, what other pets have they got? Make sure you know if they if you're in if you're getting three dogs in for a vaccine, do try and remember all of their names and try and flick through the notes. You know, if one had a cruciate last year, hold that in your mind and go, they are that's that's um Rufus that had the cruciate last year, isn't it? Things like that build trust really quickly, I think.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

Um, that's your really old cat. Or if if they've got three pets on their notes and they brought the dog in and they've got like an 18-year-old cat at home, you go, Oh, you yeah, you've got the older cat at home, haven't you, that's still going, I don't know, what oh, this this fetch really taken the time to to know me and has read the history for my pet. I I think that's one of my tricks for building trust.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

I think to be honest, mine are maybe even a bit more simple. Like for me, big hitters with clients is you call I always call them in by the animal's name. And then I say, as they're walking into the concert room, I'm like, hi yeah, I'm Charlotte, I'm one of the bets today. Lovely to meet you. And then they'll they often follow up with like, oh hi, I'm Marie, and I I will go, hi Marie, lovely to meet you, because it shows that you're listening and from the get-go, you're on the right foot. Same with their animal. So if they're a dog, say to the owner, oh, if you want to let them off the lead, that's fine. Let them have a little snoop around. Same with cats. If you want to let them out the box, let them have a little roam around and then have a relationship with that animal, however, that animal is telling you it wants to be treated. So if a dog is coming up to you and wants loads of fuss, get down on the floor, give it loads of fuss. Because that dog is that person's child. It's often their baby. And if they think, oh, they get on really well, you're giving it loads of fuss, it's having loads of strokes, it's wagging its tail. With a cat, if it's trying to hide away, then you know, giving her her a space and saying, I'm gonna make this nice and quick, because I know she's a little bit stressed blesser, having that relationship with their animal is gonna make them think they know what they're doing, they have loads of respect for my animal. It instantly builds that relationship without you even really having to say too much. So they're probably my two little tips.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

Do you know um yeah, something's just come back to me from um my my wife, a teacher, and she said um she used to give chocolates to a lot of her pupils. And I thought the I think the vet equivalent to that is if you bring in your own stash of LicyLicks so that you can like I think I bet you I wonder if that would really work. I think that might be a really good little little cheat, really. And it'll make um doing the injections so much easier anyway.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yeah, and to be honest as well, that's a really good tip, actually, because a lot of your first consorts are gonna be vaccines, right? Vaccinations are so much easier. If you have a food-driven cat or dog, they are so much easier. So, what I normally do is have the vaccine drawn up in my hand, like palm a hand of biscuits, always ask them if they're happy for you to give them treats, because if they've got loads of allergies and then you give them something that's gonna make them food themselves today, it's not ideal. But yeah, then for a dog, you drop the biscuits on the floor, and if you've scattered quite a few around, it gives you 30 seconds to get the jab in without them even noticing. Same with cats. If they like licky licks, clean table, obviously, but I squirt like a line of licky licks out on the table in front of them. So they're like, oh my god, face down on the table whilst you give the vaccination. And another way that makes you look like you really know what you're doing is instead of going, I'm just gonna give the vaccination now, do it while you're talking to the client because then they won't even notice you've done it. And they go, Oh, it's done already. You're like, Yeah, actually, I've already finished. So it makes you it makes you feel more confident, makes you look more confident, makes it feel more natural. So yeah, yeah, good tip.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Yeah, I think you do you have um uh you know, a way of saying things for everything, don't you? Ear disease, skin disease, food allergies. And I was remembering I was developing that for my first few months, trying to really hone. Because there's quite a few consults you're gonna do a million times, aren't there?

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Uh I think even to start off with, just keep it simple. You know, if you're gonna be if you know you're gonna be seeing flea and worming and vaccine consults, you want to say things like, Have they been in themselves any concerns at all? Eating, drinking wheeze poos, all nice and normal, no issues, no vomiting, no diarrhea, etc. Just have a bit of a conversation like that for a vaccine consult. That's pretty much enough. And then remembering how to do a good nose-to-tail exam and not taking 20 minutes to do it, remembering the things that you definitely want to check with everyone, check your gum colour, check your teeth, listen to the chest, feel the abdomen, check the coat, etc. And remember to go from nose to tail each time. Just get a bit of an idea of flow in your head as to how you're going to do those consults.

SPEAKER_04 40:52

And I would say don't put too much pressure on yourself. Look, if the owners come in and body language is so relaxed and they're happy and they've just come in for what they perceive as a vaccine, don't feel like you have to spot every single thing on that dog in your first week in practice. Um, if if the dog potters in looks fairly well, the weight's stable, just do a bit of an exam, but don't put too much pressure on yourself that you're gonna miss something or oh, was that a one out of six murmur? If if you look back on the notes, no one else has mentioned it, it's not a cavalier, um, and the dog's perfectly well and not coughing. Don't kind of give yourself a oh my god, am I gonna miss? Is it subtle? Unless it's something really big and the owner's already worried, you can give yourself a pass. If you want to be extra careful, you can say suggest uh a recheck or something like that when you're on holiday.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Someone else could see it. Yeah, or you know, if if you do notice something, then use. I've got a few what I call get out of jail free cards that I used quite a lot when I'd first qualified. So, for example, if you have a puppy that comes in and you think it's got an umbilical hernia or you think it's got a low-grade murmur or something like that, it is okay to say, this is so gorgeous, this puppy. Do you mind if I go and examine him out the back? Because I know the nurses are gonna love to see them. And your clients will always go, yeah, yeah, cool, go ahead. And then you can run out the back and get one of the nurses to have a feel and think, do you think this is a hernia? And then when you go back in, you've had somebody else chat to you. So that's a good one for little puppies. You haven't taken the animal's temperature yet, which by the way, I never take in a normal consult unless I'm worried the animal's sick because it just pisses them off. If you think there is something wrong with a dog or cat, but you're not sure and you want to run something past someone, what I always do is either have your thermometer in a consult room drawer so it's not visible to the client or have it in your pocket so they can't see it, because then you can say, My thermometer's just not in here. I'm just gonna go and grab it quickly. Give me a couple of minutes, I'll go find one and I'll be back with you. Gives you a couple of minutes to go out and run something past someone else and say, Do you think this is normal? Do I need to be concerned? Or I've used the excuse before of saying, I'm just gonna have a little bit of a better look at this. There's better lights out in the prep room. So do you mind if I take them out the back? And they always go, Yeah, yeah, that's fine. So you'll learn little tips and techniques that you can use, little phrases that still make you seem like you know what you're doing, but give you that out to get out of that room and think, oh my god, what am I doing? So, but then you're not doing it in front of the client. So yeah, do you use anything like that?

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Yeah, we're we're we're all still in that boat. I mean, I'm still I still do that because not quite like that, but I tell you what I do now at my stage is um if I'm if I'm working somewhere new, the clients are invested in the vets that are already there, aren't they? So I will tend to say things like, I'll just chat this through with XYZ vet they already trust, so that they know that I'm being inclusive to everyone's opinions and it's making my, you know, what's gonna the outcome for the pet dependent not just on my opinion, but everyone's. So and I still do that now if we're in a practice where I'm not well underst well well known to the clients.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

And I think if you put it in the way of I'm just not convinced that I'm that happy, I feel like there might be something going on, but I just want to go out and sort of run through some ideas with another colleague just to make sure we don't miss anything. If you say things. From that point of view, you look thorough, you look like you know what you're doing, you look like you really care and you're just checking things out. You're not going, I'm really worried, I think there might be something going on, but I'm not really sure. So I just need to go and check with another vet. That's very different. If you say, I'm just gonna go and chat this through with another colleague because I just want to make sure we don't miss anything, very different in terms of general tip for basic clinical stuff to remember. I'm not very good at remembering numbers, and I found it really difficult to remember all the normals. So to remember normal heart rate and resp rate and temperature for dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, etc. And even to remember what vaccine you give at what point protocols, etc. Have a little pocket notebook and have them in your pocket. Because if you have that in front of you, then literally just before a consult comes in, if you know it's a dog, you can just quickly look at it and refresh yourself. It's a really quick, easy little prompt and it's just going to help you out, make you feel a bit more confident, make you remember that you do know what you're doing. So and I still have one now for all my emergency drug doses.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Yeah, don't feel so bad if you don't know something straight away, because like I've been a vet 26 years, and they still don't I I got so used to looking at the side of the Milbamax box to just to remember what tablet to give. Like when puppies one tablet, one to five kilos, is it? I can't remember, and then two tablets for five to ten and one, whatever. And I somehow I'd often forget it. Or sometimes I don't know, sometimes you just have a brain fart, don't you? And you forget. Yeah. So um, and sometimes I go to a clinic and they don't have the little box which has got the little chart on the side.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

So um, yeah, so having all those doses somewhere on a cheat sheet is is yeah, pretty valuable.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

You know, a lot of the stuff that you're gonna do to start off with, you're not gonna be remembered for your clinical skill, but you're gonna be remembered for your your communication skill and the rapport that you build with clients. And we know that a few of you are really, really worried about that. And we actually had a really lovely voice note from a listener, didn't we? Susie that sent us our first lovely voice note. Um so she sent her second voice note.

SPEAKER_05 45:56

So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

And anybody else who does want to get in contact with us, please watch that voice note because we love them and we're gonna use them on the pods. So have a little listen to what Susie had to say.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

My name is Susie. And my question is as a new grad, if you are in a consultation and you are completely stumped or you genuinely have no idea, or you've forgotten something, how should you say that to the client? Um, and how should you communicate that with them without being like, I have no idea? Um I hope that makes sense. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

That's a great question, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Yeah, really good question. And I think I use those get out of jail free cards that we were talking about, saying that you want to grab a thermometer or saying that you need a bit better light.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

Well, as soon as they ask, as soon as you ask you a question, you're like, oh, I just need to get my thermometer and run out the door.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Well, I think it depends what they're asking you, isn't it? Say if they're asking you when is best to neuter your dog, for example, you can literally turn around and say, Do you know what? Being honest with you, I'm really new to this practice. I want to make sure that I'm gonna give you the advice that's practice-wide. So bear with me two seconds. I'm just gonna double check what our policy is here, and then I'll be back with you and we can talk through pros, cons. If you're worried about something you've found, like if I don't know, you think there's a heart murmur when it's not been documented before, or you're worried that a pet is sicker than it looks, then that's when I'd use those excuses like, I'm not, I'm just not quite happy, something's not quite sitting right. I'm just gonna go run this past another quality so we can make sure we're not missing something, or say that you want to get a bit of better light out in the prep room or whatever it might be, use an excuse to get the animal out of the back with you so that you can run it past somebody else and have a better check of them. Yeah, does that make sense if you've got any other tips?

SPEAKER_04 47:39

Yeah, and there's also the I think now we've got email and WhatsApp and text message or whatever, there is an element of kind of going, it's at it's actually a bit more complicated than it sounds. Can I just get back to you later today and then just make sure you do? And or there's a lot more to that question, and I can go into it in more detail in an email. Do you mind if I send you an email about it?

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you are not the only vet as a new grad that is going to be asked a question that you don't know the answer to. It still happens to us now. We've been qualified years. Okay, get sometimes patients that are referred to me and I'm like, what the hell is that medication? I've literally never heard of that before. And then I have to Google what it is in front of the client. I use the excuse of saying, like, oh, I'm just not used to that drug name. So I'm just gonna double check it's the right drug that I'm thinking of because I'm just not used to the brand name. Just basically the main tip is not to go, uh um, I d uh I don't know. Don't say that because that makes you look like you literally don't know what you're doing. Just say, do you know what? I'm not 100% sure. If if it's okay with you, I'm just gonna take Barney out to prep and we're just gonna have a little bit of a better look under some better light. I'm just gonna run this past another vet as well, just to make sure we're not missing anything between the two of us, and then I'll get back to you. Is that okay? Completely different consult. So yeah, it's it's just about phrasing it.

SPEAKER_04 48:54

Yeah, and could you maybe get something to come back for a re-exam in two, three days with someone else? Especially if there's someone in the clinic who's really into skin or whatever and it's a difficult situation, you might go, hey, let's I think let's start with this, but come back in a few days and just see how things are going.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

Yeah, yeah. And again, like you say, getting back to clients. So if you say, I'm not quite happy, do you mind if I take a couple of pictures or give me this evening? I'm gonna run this past a couple of other bets, bets. I'm gonna do some research, and then I'll get back to you tonight or tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

Yeah, and I I think I I don't I may I think AI is your friend as well in this. I mean, AI can give you references, you can interrogate it. So you can verify things fairly well and and also phrase things really well through AI as well.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

Okay, so I think that's probably gone over some of our tips for how to handle being in practice for the first time. But one thing we want to sort of finish up on and talk about before we go ahead is is things to say about the reality of practice and when to know that you're maybe not in the right place, signs that you might be getting a bit more burnt out than you should be and that you might need a bit more help, etc. So I think someone uh was it Michaela that made a point about this that we wanted to bring up, Brendan?

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. Well, is this the lack of support?

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Yeah, so bringing it back to to Michaela, she made a point to us on socials that if you go into a job that doesn't have enough support, it honestly can be one of the biggest drivers for you either wanting to leave the profession or at least leave that job. And it's often the environment that you work in. Remember, like we said earlier, often if things aren't going well for you, a lot of the time it's not you. It's just that it's not fitting you the environment that you're in. Either it's too busy or it's too quiet or you've not got the right rapport with your colleagues. Sometimes things just aren't right. And I guess the signs that we'd look out for to say if things aren't right, is if you're really anxious before you're going into work every day, if there's never anyone around to help you if you have questions, if you feel like you're having to hide your mistakes because your bosses are just going to bollock you every time you ask them a question and you realise you've got it wrong. I mean, I've had it before where I felt like I had to compromise on the quality of my work because I'm too busy. Like if you're having to bodge your clinical notes and not write as much as you should be, or you're having to take them home and do them over the cloud at home because you don't, you're not given enough time during the day, those are signs that that job is not right for you. And that that doesn't mean that you're doing a bad job or that you're a bad vet. It's probably just that that job in particular is not suiting you, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

Um yeah, it doesn't mean you're a bad vet. It just means yeah, that you're not getting the support on what you need. And a lot of this pulls down to relationships, doesn't it? It's the relationship with the management so that they're giving you what you need individually, because you might what your needs might be might be different to the last new grad they had, and they're just they're not pitching it right. So you've got to be able to communicate it. Um and I think there has to be a little bit of two-way as well, um, where you're kind of showing some because they I think they want to see something from you back. So if they're gonna kind of go out of their way to try and help you for something you need, I think it's nice for you to kind of go out of your way and go demonstrate or show them what you're trying to do to give them something back.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

Yeah. Yeah, and like you say, just just helping out a little bit in return. So say, like if you've been asking the nurses loads of questions, if you have a break-in between your consults and you're or you're not that busy on a certain day, if you can see their manic out the back, just be like, are there any dogs that need to go out for a wee? Or do you need any help getting catheters in? Or just is there anything I can do to help? And ask it really earnestly because the nurses might go, Oh my god, yeah, please, if you can let that dog out for a wee, I've been meaning to do it for the last two hours. They will love you. Just show that you're supportive. If you see a kennel that's dirty, get on your knees and clean it. Like be a team player because if you are, you will get uh you will get it reciprocated back every time.

SPEAKER_04 52:38

Learn that doing out-of-hour shifts, don't you? Because we everyone gets stuck in, like, you know, everyone's at the end of the day, everyone's mopping, hoovering, you know, every everything's going on, and it's just we're it's all we're all just hands on deck, just getting it done.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, and uh the last thing we wanted to cover before finishing up the episode is we've purposely not really focused on surgery. And the reason for that is that when you qualify and you go into your first practice, you should not, and I mean this with proper earnesty, you should not be expected to be doing surgery on your own from the get-go on day one without any help, because it is terrifying. You literally have an animal under under anesthetic with their life in your hands. It's not down to the nurse, it's down to you as the responsible vet. And that is terrifying. And any good practice should be buddying you up with another vet when you first start with any surgery, even cat castrates and things like that. You know, you need to go in knowing that you're going to be supported. And one of the massive red flags for a new job for me is that if you are not budded up with someone on your surgical days and you're expected to do surgeries on your own from day one, for me, that's not the practice that I would want to work at. So, and that's why we've not really talked about tips, etc., for surgery, because you should be learning that on the job with another vet with you.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Yeah, it's it's um it goes back to that relationship thing. It's a two-way communication, isn't it? Uh, you need to be really straight with your boss, you need to be really honest and go, this is what I've done. Uh I'm gonna need a lot of support with this, this, and this. I don't feel confident. I've never done this before, or I've only done one or two, but I still don't feel confident. You have to have that um confidence in yourself that look, you're gonna get there, but you you also need to communicate that to the management. And if that if they aren't able to organize things around your needs, that isn't the right place for a new grad. Any practice hiring a new grad is a there's a a thing there, isn't it? They're paying less, they're getting someone who they're gonna mould so that they know what they're getting into, their experience, they've done all this a million times before. For me, I was absolutely sh absolutely rubbish. I wasn't hadn't done very much at all. And um, I remember they gave me this massive stitch up and it needed about 40 stitches, and they were like, This is really good practice for you because you can do loads of stitches, and it was, it's I still remember it now. And I did all my stitches and and it was a low stress kind of opt to do. Um that's amazing. You look, I look back now and go, that's so nice. This is what you need as a new grad. You need that, exactly. Yeah, giving you the right experience at the right time.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Yeah, exactly. I mean, my first job, I remember there was a guy, shout out to Simon, I've got no idea whether he listens, but he, you're an amazing mate, so thank you very much. Um, but he I remember when I first started, uh everyone always panics about bitch face, don't they? They're not a day one competency, don't panic about them. You will learn. I know vets that are like three years out and still not confident with them, so don't panic. Um, but I remember I got quite a lot of surgery in my first few days in general practice. And I remember I went in with Simon, he was like, We're gonna do one together. I think there were three books in in one day. So he was like, We'll do one together. He said, the next one you're gonna do with me scrubbed in. And then the one after that, you're gonna do and I'm not gonna scrub. He said, I'll be in the room, but you're gonna do it and I'm not and I'm not gonna scrub. And I was terrified. But that level of support was amazing because it was like see one, do one, teach one type thing. It's that sort of way of learning. But I knew I was really supported, but it also gave me the confidence to be like, oh, I just did that and it wasn't even scrubbed. So again, find yourself an environment like that where you know that you're gonna be supported. I mean, yes, don't get me wrong, not everyone's gonna learn that quickly and want and have enough confidence to proceed with surgery that quickly, but you need to find a practice that's gonna work with you and for you to be able to say, I'm still not quite happy, I don't really want to be doing those on my own yet, or even can I have a nurse scrubbed in with me to be able to hold things that the way, etc. If they support you, it will make your life so much easier.

SPEAKER_04 56:29

Can I say my tiny little story? And there's Anne, the head nurse, who's the practice head nurse at the first practice I worked at while bore in work worksop in Nottinghamshire. And um we were upstairs, and in those days we used to give um Ivy Diazepam as an apatose stimulant for cats. So I I think they they probably even suggested it, and I was like, Oh yeah, that's a good idea. They've done it like a million times. I was going through the formulary, getting the dose, and I'd never done it before, and I just got the formulary and got put the dose in, and they're like, but we know the dose kind of thing, and we're I was like, No, I'm not gonna do that, I'm just gonna follow the formulary. And I gave them the formulary dose, and uh they were like, That seems like quite a lot, and I obviously didn't take the hint at all.

SPEAKER_05 57:09

Okay, gave the whole lot, and the cat it went straight to the foe fall, went to eat, and they just collapsed asleep, like because I'd given it way too much, and then we all looked at each other. I bet they were pissing themselves laughing at my stupid dose.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

It was just a exact funny thing is it was trying to eat, but it was so knocked out it couldn't, so it was lying there with his mouth open, like a gulping like a goldfish.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

Yeah, so there we go. We've all been there, we've all got really silly stories. So please never feel on your own. You will have days where you think, oh my god, what the hell am I doing? I don't have a clue what I'm up to. That is normal, and everybody has been there, so please don't panic about it. It's it's a scary profession to work in, but it is amazing and it does have a lot of benefits. And you there are days, there are days that you'll hate and there are days that you'll love. But overall, it is positive if you're in the right place. So bear with it. You will get there, I promise you. Okay, so I think we're probably at roundup time. We really hope you've enjoyed the first bonus episode in our little survival guide theories. So we've covered loads today from what to look out for and you know what to try and search for in your first job and how to survive and thrive in sort of your first few weeks of your new job as a GP there.

SPEAKER_04 58:22

We hope as we hope as ever you've enjoyed listening. And remember to get in touch if you have any comments or suggestions to help us improve these pods for you. Any topics you particularly want to cover.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Yeah, absolutely. We'd love for you to get in touch. Remember, there's loads of different ways you can get in touch with us now. So we're obviously on socials, so message us on that way if you'd like to. But we now also, thanks for lovely Brendan, we have a WhatsApp business number. So we'd love to hear from you. So no topics you'd like us to cover, questions you have, feedback. And if you drop us a voice note, you might be like lucky Susie, and we might even feature you on the podcast. And our number is plus 44, because we're in the UK, 7585-632162. So drop us a message or a voice note if you can.

SPEAKER_04 59:05

And there's links on the website, the chattyvets.com website. Um, if you go to the contact us page, you'll see direct links onto that um WhatsApp, and you can leave us a voice note there. Um, we've also got our blog running on the website too. So check there for we've sometimes go into things a little bit more depth or just cover some different stuff in the blog so you can have a look. And feel free to add comments and start a discussion about any topics you might feel strongly about. I think we're getting so many discussions on um Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, aren't we? Yeah, so we do try and contribute to them where we can.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Yeah, great. So and we look forward to hearing from you. So join us next Sunday for our next two-week takedown episode where we'll be covering some very controversial topics, including the brachisphallic debate, how vapes might be affecting our dogs, and we'll be chatting to a very special guest about all things dentistry. Very exciting.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

Looking forward to it already. Until then, it's bye from me.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

And buy from me. Take care.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

The content presented in the Chassy Death Podcast is intended for licensed working professionals and is for information purposes only.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Views expressed are those of the host and guests and do not substitute for clinical judgment judgment or individualized patient care.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

Drug Dosagistcourse's medical advice discussed should be verified against current literature and manufacturers' guidelines. Always consult relevant laws, regulations, and institutional policies in your practice. Listen to expressions advised.