When Life No Longer Fits: Thy Nguyen on Motherhood, Change and Letting Go

This week on The Mothering Project, I’m joined by Thy Nguyen /Monzo for a really honest conversation about identity, motherhood, and what happens when life asks you to begin again in a different way than you expected.

Thy shares her journey from running a yoga studio to stepping into work that looked very different, navigating motherhood, the pressure of business ownership, and the emotional reality of closing something she had once poured so much of herself into.

We talk about what COVID shifted — practically and personally — and the way motherhood can bring both clarity and conflict: what matters, what no longer fits, and how hard it can be to hear your own voice underneath the noise of everyday life.

There’s also a powerful conversation around mental load, self-awareness, and the invisible work women often carry — not just physically, but emotionally and mentally too.

What I loved most in this conversation is Thy’s honesty: about not getting it right all the time, about learning through change, and about giving yourself permission to evolve without guilt.

This episode is for anyone who has ever felt themselves changing and wondered what to hold onto — and what they may need to let go of 💛🎙️

Thy - Yoga  https://www.instagram.com/yogawiththy/

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVhzv0ICVaR/?igsh=eWRtZGpoNnVoc2Uy

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Good morning, T. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Good morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

I'm great, thanks. This is a fabulous Monday morning having you on my podcast. So good to see you. Yes, I know we've actually already had a pre-coffee, so if we ramble on, it's because of the too much caffeine over in the coffee shop. Just because we really like each other and have a million things to say. I know it's like we should meet more often. T, thank you so much to come for coming on to the Mothering Project. Obviously, we met a long time ago, and I know a lot about you, but I'd love for you to give me a bit of a background about where you're from, where you're at, and tell me about your beautiful family.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Okay, so we have to go back a little while. I am originally from Canada, which obviously get asked a lot here in Australia. From Canada, and I've been here coming on to 13 years now, which sounds pretty wild. I absolutely loving it, live love living in Sydney. I have taught yoga for a very long time. I've been practicing yoga for about 20 years, and then I did a few teacher trainings and then finally made yoga my official full-time job, very luckily through, you know, parent support in 2010. And then, you know, I think a lot of the similar expat story, I met a boy overseas. He was Australian, which brought me to Australia in 2013. And since then, I have opened a yoga studio, closed the yoga studio, had uh a daughter first while I still had the studio, and then through COVID, had a lovely, wonderful surprise of twins. Um, so I've got three amazing, lovely, gorgeous young girls, seven and the twins are four now. And not having a studio anymore, not having that as a business, but I just started a new job last year uh working for someone else, which I actually really love in this moment of my life, in this season of my life. So things have things have changed a lot. I would never would have guessed where the path would have taken me, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

And isn't it funny? Because transitions happen like this. Like you, I remember when we were doing the yoga teacher training. So that's how we first met. I remember the first day I walked into the studio and went, I hear you're doing yoga yoga teacher training. I think I'd only done one class with you at that stage. I still remember that conversation. Yeah. And there was this shift in me because I was like, I don't think, you know, given the fact that I had, I think Hoshin was around two then, I was like, I don't think I can sustain like working full time when I'm, you know, a mom overseas and with no family support. And I remember you going, I couldn't work for someone anymore. You know, I couldn't do that. And then when we spoke earlier on, I was like, it just goes to show that something that like is true to you back then, it can change. Like things pivot all the time.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Um and it was always that one moment of like, I remember walking in and you were like, Yeah, sure, you're all sweaty after doing like a hot yoga class, and you were like, Come, let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

I was so excited, I remember opening the door and you were there waiting. And we without a chat.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I know, and we probably haven't stopped chatting since. But so tell me, I guess fast forward now, like tell us a bit more about like your decisions around closing the studio when you had the twins. Because, you know, maybe to take the listeners back one step. Like we were going through our training with you, right? Yes. And it was COVID times.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Again, you just never know what's gonna happen next. And I think uh this is so cliche of me to say as a yoga teacher, but I think yoga has supported me so much along the way to just take things as they come and to be open and do the do your best at the time that things are happening. So, you know, quite honestly, owning a business was incredibly hard. And I did enjoy it, but I was just saying to you earlier as well, there was a lot I didn't like about it, you know. I'm a yoga teacher, I'm a creative, and I wanted to do that. And I had sort of heard that opening a business, you'd have to, you know, really, you know, step up and do things with business. And I did a marketing degree, so I I mean it's so irrelevant now. But, you know, there were aspects that I I I could do and I enjoyed. But ultimately, it just wasn't. There was so much hard in it. And yeah, okay, so it uh so once I had the business, you know, I it was going, it was going okay. It was going slower than I thought it was gonna go, which is totally fine. And I was kind of like, okay, this is meant to happen. And then we started picking up and building a community. And I think that is always a big part of a yoga studio. It just takes time to to really build and for people to get to know you because it is personal. And for me, yoga has always been that way. Some people think of it as fitness, maybe that's what gets them in. But I've always taught my teachers this as well. But what really gets people to stay is not teaching someone how to do a pose or a warrior two. It's it's you know, it's talking a little bit about your life and connecting yoga to real life, you know, which I love sharing yoga philosophy and you know, being yourself and listening to yourself and that kind of thing. And so this is kind of a long-ish story, but 2020, when COVID hit, I actually, my studio was a franchise from Canada, which I did enjoy being a part of. And I, it was kind of a for me, I so aligned with their values. But once I opened in Australia and after a few years, I realized like the voice was so different. It was very North American. And yes, I am, but I'm now Aussie, I'm an expat. You know, the there was like such a shift in me that I didn't connect with that idea anymore. And luckily through COVID, I just decided to rebrand. So I rebranded my studio way more me. All my students felt it. Started running teacher trainings, which was also freeing because I couldn't do that as part of the franchise. Loved the teacher training process when COVID started. So it was all in person. I love being in person. I'm great. In person, I would say, even better than online. And teacher training was just so for me. I just loved guiding and supporting people on a deeper level and talking about all the aspects that yoga involved outside of just physical yoga or just breath work. There's, you know, philosophy, learning more about the body, the just there's so much. Yoga goes so deep, just beyond what people know than coming to one yoga, physical yoga class. So teacher training was great. And then when I was doing my third teacher training, which was no, actually, you guys were in the second one. We were in the second one. You were in the second one, and and there was, you know, lockdown, and then we had to shift online. And I think you guys were actually so gr great because I kind of was like, oh great, now I'm in unknown territory. How do I shift to online? I remember doing the me in with Karm and at home.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

I know. And I'm like, at least I can just fall into bed. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

And I think the positive thing about that was like everyone was going through it, as in the world. So it was a lot easier to just adapt and be really honest. And I think I have always been quite an honest person, quite an open book. And so you guys as students just really understood because I was so clear and just said, look, this is what we have to do.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

But we had a really great experience, I think, still having it as it and I think as well, like sorry to cut in, but I think it was one of those things where we had to adapt, and that was just the way it was. Because, like you say, the world was gone crazy and it was giving us something to do as well, I suppose, in our time. And you know, my my biggest takeaway from your trainings were the community that you did actually create, because I think I was saying to you earlier, I've gone for walks with Sarah, Tara, and myself have recently like worked really closely in business together. And, you know, you and I have kept really in touch as well. So it's like it's really, really lovely to have that.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I know, which was we'll get closer now to the the ending, I guess, of it, of that community, which was then, you know, so we had this COVID period, there were lockdowns and things like that. And that coincided with my my husband and I wanting to grow our family. So we had a daughter, and oh my gosh, and then when I look back, like one, whatever you having one kid. I know. So it was great, you know, because I still maintained the business with just one child. And I felt like this is great. I'm happy to like let's go for the second. So then through COVID, uh, you know, very luckily and happily, we we fell pregnant and we go to the ultrasound, and the technician goes, Looks like there's two. I like can you, you know, I'm sure if you hear that, even just imagining being a person in that position, we just our jaws dropped and we're like, What do you mean? Um, and my friends always laugh at me because I'm my family has three kids. I I have always wanted three children. Not like this. I wouldn't have never planned to have twins. Didn't part of me was like, that's impossible. What do you mean I have twins? But are there twins in your family? I mean, when I read the science behind it, like identical can be just a freak because it just is an egg splitting. And fraternal, which mine are, are two eggs being fertilized. And that could be through family lines, but not even necessarily. Like if you're older and have good eggs, apparently. So I joke with my husband, like it could have been three, it could have been four, you know. And yeah, imagine less. So, anyways, it was you know, it was a shock. But then after the initial shock, we just felt so excited. You know, who gets twins? And my friends all laugh because they knowing me, they go, You get quick twins, of course, you know. And so it, you know, luckily to have a great pregnancy, still managed the studio. But I really felt and I I was scared to be honest. One was just do so doable. And after having one, I think people that have one child, you know what to expect. So when you have this now idea of two, especially in the early years, new burden stage, like just double the work, right? I just started to feel like it's gonna be a lot. And I know that I love being a mom. Yes, I love teaching yoga. And you know, I had to sit with some hard questions and just go, but no, I don't like being a studio owner. I actually find it really draining and taking me away from what I really want to be, which is just freely presenting myself to my students. But as a business owner, like you can't always tell them everything, obviously. You know, like there are hardships with the studio, especially financially, that I didn't want to share, which to be honest, I ended up sharing a little bit more with my teachers, just so they could understand, like, you know, in terms of pay or in terms of upgrading things, I just had to be so transparent and go like, it's not in the budget. Like, I'd love to say that we're making a matzah, but it's not like that, especially in Sydney when rent is really high. And, you know, just as a side note, I think transparency is so important in all relationships. But I was really happy I went down the transparent route with my team because I really got people that also cared about me. They weren't just there for a paycheck, which I think helped build such a strong community feeling. Like all my students felt that my teachers wanted to be at that studio space. And I knew that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, they weren't rocking up like five minutes before setting up, you know, like all of them were there.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

And they were all very different as well. Exactly. And I loved that, you know. So I just knew that having twins, there was going to be some kind of a shift. And, you know, we were so lucky to make it through COVID and actually stronger financially than we had ever been because I was running teacher trainings. But as, you know, the months passed, growing twins, I just was so honest with myself and my husband and went, I think I'm done. And that was really hard. Like I still actually get emotional thinking about that moment when I realized I think I actually want to sell, you know? And funny enough, we had, I don't think I had ever would have thought about this if I hadn't had this original offer. So during COVID, in the height of it, when we were in lockdown, I actually got an offer to sell my studio from another business person that was buying some other studios. I kind of just put out a high number because I valued our studio quite highly. They weren't really taking that. And then I just went, actually, I don't want to sell, like, unless you're gonna really pay me a lot. I'm not selling because I hadn't even run my first teacher training yet. And I'm so glad I didn't sell at that time. Love, ran my teacher trainings, loved it. And then knew wait, like I can sell this thing. So we got everything ready to sell. I actually met with maybe six or seven interested parties, but nothing was working. As in, I wanted to, not that I wanted to be involved, but I wanted somebody that would really take over the studio and care for it. And just the person didn't come along. Yeah. And then I think twist of fate, or maybe it is what you attract, we were getting new landlords. And they said, Okay, we're having a meeting and we had new landlords before. So I kind of went, all right, nope, no worries. Walked into the meeting and the representative just said, look, we want to take over the whole building. We're gonna, it's gonna be a long renovation process. And I went, Okay, well, are you gonna work with us? And they went, not really. But, you know, it was a woman and she was really lovely, and we just had a great conversation. I have to give credit to them as well because, you know, she really looked at me as a woman and business owner and went, Look, you're doing yoga, we're gonna impact that. Let's talk about a solution. And she had kids as well. And I think I don't know, I was lucky, but I also think you can attract that kind of luck into your life. And I really truly believe it has always worked that way for me. But because I also have that mindset and I put things out the way that I want to put things out, right? And so we went away from that meeting, talked to our solicitor, and I just said, What do you think that they would buy us out? Because we were still in our lease. And my lawyer said, Look, you will get rent free, probably. If they're not gonna relocate you, they'll give you free rent, but ask for that. I've never heard of that, but throw it out there. So we walked into the next meeting before I even said anything. The rep said to me, like, I we know you guys want to sell because they had looked down their research and just said, Let's talk about a number. And that was just amazing for me. You know, like we got pretty well what we wanted. And again, I'm gonna be quite honor like honest and quite vulnerable here. Like in all the years that I was open, I don't even know really how great of a profit we turned.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

And that was a really hard thing to look at once all was said and done and we had closed doors. You know, and I've had to hear it. Why do you think that is? Is it because they were too busy in the cradle or no? We I made a lot of mistakes, you know, and I'm okay to say that. Like we got a space that was too big, but mind you saying that, I had looked at about 60 properties plus. Um and But it was very perfect. It was a beautiful space. And to be honest, it was high rent. We're talking like nine and a half grand a month. And but you know, I looked at other spaces in the inner west for that, if not more for a smaller space. So look, we spent a lot on rent. The space was huge, so we had to fit that out. We took a business loan that was too big. But, you know, I took what I knew at the time. I kind of backed myself very happily. My husband backed us too. And look, like we did in the last years because of the teacher training, like we did quite well. But overall, I don't even want to think about what I made because the first three years I wasn't really paying myself adequately. And that's okay. That's like a huge life lesson. And I just keep saying, like, yoga has helped me because I've had this practice of like go right to the NT. So when I start spiraling, and maybe I'm also lucky because I I don't have actually had like anxiety or depression, but when I see a problem and I start spiraling, I've had this tool, which I think has developed through yoga, to just go down to the end. What happens at the very end? You go bankrupt. Okay. People look at you, you're a failure. But are you though? Because you actually tried. And this is Brene Brown's work as well. Like you got in the ring and you, you know, not you're not a spectator.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

And you're not going to be taking this to your grave going, Oh, I really wish I opened a studio someday.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

And that's you know, yoga philosophy has taught me, right? Like, I'm not here to have regrets. I'm not here to go, I wish. Like, I'm here to live. I'm here to live for today. And I still have skills. Yeah. Like I can still do be a yoga teacher, right? I can still, look, if it comes down to it, I could do other work, but I know I'm a great yoga teacher and I could do that. I know I can train people. And obviously, like I had my husband's support and there was income there. I always joked though, like, I could just go back home to Canada to my parents. And my husband was like, Stop saying that. But you know, I I had I was lucky to have that support system around me as well. And so when I looked down the end of the line, I just went, look, we're taking a really big risk, but without risk, like there's no reward, but also like you you calculate the risks. Like I wasn't going in blind.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

But it was something obviously in you that was pulling you to open a studio.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Like there was something in you. There was no way around it. Yeah. It was a buildup for years. Like I knew, like I moving from Canada, I had a really great teacher and mentor, one of my really great um teacher and friend, Angela. And she has a great business. She still has her studio 20 years running. She modeled so many amazing things for me, you know? And so in a way, I there was even a part of me that just when you go through the process of like, I'm gonna close this thing now, you know, it's like, have I let people down? And I that was I felt so much guilt, letting my community down. Yeah. Even in a way, like letting her down, being like, I couldn't sustain it, you know? But then also once again backing myself and going, like, but who's living your life, T? You are living your life. No one else is having twins and running a business. You are doing that. And so I and I love being a mother. Yeah. And I, you know, I think at the very beginning, it was kind of hard for me to honestly say, I think, because of our society and maybe growing up in a North American culture, but maybe a very uh even just Western cultures where where work can be very um prioritized. Yeah. A bit easier in my industry, right? In yoga. It's like listen to your body intuition, you know, motherhood kind of it's not as like y'all it back to work if you're a lawyer, right? So that was a softer space. But I still, just because of society, felt like, why can't I have the kids and run the business at full speed? And then I was like, I don't want that.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

But that's it. And it's almost people don't talk about it. I actually really appreciate you bringing that up because I know it's a real vulnerable share, but it's what people need to hear because from the outside on Instagram, people would have been like, now yoga, and like look at T, she's making a matzer. Yeah. But you know, actually behind the scenes, that's where the cracks are because we are very good at putting on a show. And Instagram is like that highlight reel of everything is sweet.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Um and and that exists for purpose as well, because you don't want to be like going on your Instagram being like, guys, come because you know, finances are hard as a small business owner. Yeah. You know, like you want you always want to put your best out, and that exists for a reason. But at the same time, like what you're saying, these conversations are so important, and having a support network that you can lean on to offset that because that just exists. When you're doing something hard and meaningful, there are costs, whether financial or not, emotional for a lot of people, whatever they're in. And just having people to offload that energy so then you can be clear and fresh to then focus on your work again. And that worked for me for a long time at the studio. Like I could offload to my husband, to my closest friends and say, like, I struggled with this at the studio. Okay, let that go. You know, write it out. Just sit with myself, because that was my tool. Go through my movement practices, which was yoga and running and clear my thoughts. Yeah. And then go back. So I wasn't being, I, you know, I want to be clear that like I wasn't being fake through it because I did love teaching and I did love creating a community space. But to your point, there is a very real human space.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

And two things can be true at the very same time.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Like it doesn't need to be, yeah. Exactly. So my student, my teachers, you know, saw more of that in the last few years. And which was really good for them.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Because then they weren't gonna go out and make the the mistake because, you know, online it looks like it's really profitable to have a yoga studio. Or actually they saw the reality that yoga owning in a yoga studio is a different skill set than actually being a yoga teacher. Correct. And I say this in in workplaces all the time. I'm like, you literally you've given this person it's really good technically and people manager role, but like actually that's a totally different role. So it's a totally different job. And you wonder then why they can't do it. But I mean, managing people, which we'll get to, I think we've had a giggle about it already this morning, but managing people is like a totally different ball game.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Like it's a very and that's a specific skill set. You know, because I've seen really great managers. Like my husband is an amazing manager, and I actually got so much of I've learned so much from him, and I've actually I went to him so many times to be like, How do I manage this person? Like, what is the right conversation? How do I say it? And also like culturally a little bit, because I'm North American, Canadian, we're we're very direct. And you know, he's Aussie, and he's like, You can't just say that to someone. Yeah, I know that's trying to be rude. I just want to be direct, and he's like, just you know, here's how you can approach it, but also on a managerial level. Yeah. Because not just me being direct, but like as a manager, how do you both support, coach, and actively manage them, you know, in a in an effective way that gets them on board. And that's such a that's such a hard skill for me, anyways. Which is It doesn't come naturally to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

I also love not having to do that anymore. I think what that's what we laughed at, and we'll probably skip that question. But it was like, well, you know, what's your biggest lesson around leading people? And you were like, don't.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Just don't. That's for me. If you know that you are quite good working on your own, which I am and I know that about myself, like I just said, managing is a specific skill. And if you don't need to do it, or if you can hire someone to do it, which I did a little bit later, I had a wonderful studio manager, Carmen. Yeah, uh, you know, to do that. Outsource the skill that you don't have, which you talked about and I love. But uh yeah, I'm not. I can manage myself and that's what I'm good at. Yeah. Leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

And you manage your family. So like that should be. That's like, oh, that's the hardest thing. I tell them it's a fun thing to be. None of them comply with what you're asking either. So there should be non-conformances and warning letters sent to your kids on a daily basis. Of course, we have more capacity for them because I made them.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

So, you know. Yeah, I know, that's true. You've got a bit more leniency. Yeah. It was hard closing, but it it freed me in so many ways. And I I'm just so grateful that it went that way. I'm still sad that the studio doesn't have a sorry, the community doesn't have a studio there anymore. Such an opening, really. I know, which, you know, which actually has led me to wanting to do online. But, you know, life is in a different phase still at the moment, and I'm I'm okay with with that.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

And again, it's season, so it could come when, you know, your twins are in school, and then it's kind of a different I I kind of say this all the time. Like the the biggest shift is like I felt when Oshin went to school, you've got two drop-offs, and then there's three o'clock pickups, and it's not five o'clock pickups. And no, because Mondays are like three, but then you know, you're back online for a few hours at night time trying to just finish off your day because but I I enjoy it because it's you know, I get to choose my own my own hours. Mental load-wise, obviously we talk about that quite a bit. How do you manage it? Like, what's your like I know that you've got a really supportive partner, but like mental load is obviously huge with three kids, I'd imagine. It increases with every child.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

It does, it does. Oh my gosh. I feel like it's just continual, just continue to have good communication with your partner. I think if they're your support system in that way, like my husband really is so lucky in that regard. He's really good at doing the things, you know, that need to get done. But in saying that, I think naturally, I could be wrong, but I think naturally as women and the mothers, we usually are with our kids more. So we just always have the running list. And look, there's been a few times where I've kind of just lost it a little bit and just gone to my husband, like, you know, we need to start doing this. We need to start doing, you know. And he's like, Why didn't you just tell me? And I'm like, Yeah, okay. I should do that more. You know, I think I just took it on because I just feel like, oh, well, I have to be the schedule and I do know the things where I am taking them. But it is just being clear saying it. But also just, I don't know. I don't know if I have a true answer. My the way I clear my mental load is scheduling, just trying to be good at putting things in the calendar and not not taking on too much. Like I feel, even though I do a lot, and people that know me will be like, that lady's busy. She likes, I do like to be busy. But I also, I also like to be not busy. I know that's as we're saying, two truths can exist. I like to do what I want to do, which sounds obvious, but people don't always do what they want to do. They do what other people want them to do. And through yoga and practicing this for myself for so many years and teaching it to other people, I'm okay at it. You know, I'm still mass, I'm still trying to work on myself, but I just will say no. Yeah. I'm actually quite happy to to not book us in every single weekend. And I love naps. Oh my god, so you get naps. I am raised. If I can, if I can, mostly on the weekend, I love that. Do the twins still nap? Uh not they should be skipping them. Otherwise, we go into dangerous nighttime territory, which I don't want. But on some days, very luckily, they are a little bit adaptable. Like if they have a really short nap, if I can control a short nap, we're okay for bedtime. But most days they don't nap. In and in a way that's been freeing because then it's an early bedtime.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

But also it's nice when they have that little midday. Like I remember, I I'll just take Maggie down for a nap and then you have a little rest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Well, usually on on weekdays, if they're having a little nap, I now I kind of just I do feel that time. But it's more on the weekend actually when my husband's home and I'm just like, I'm go I'm I can't I'm having a nap.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, and that's nice, isn't it? That like, you know, obviously it just kind of you do need it. But we ne we always fought it and you do find it because you're like, oh, I've got so much things to do. But actually, if you have that rest, it kind of does rejuvenate you if you need it. Um especially I don't know what the kids are like for you, but like wake ups and you know, everyone thinks after baby.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

I still like well, my si six-year-old turning seven, she's she's actually great now, which I mean luckily she has been for a while, but the twins, they're four. That like we thought that they'd be sleeping through as their sister did, but no, you know, kids love to throw you a curveball. So one or both will come in, you know, and I'm still getting broken sleep and that I just go, look, live with it, T. They're everyone says this, but I don't care. It's still true. They are only young for so long. And I'm really acutely aware of that, more so as a yoga teacher, because I always talk about presence and I believe in it, and it has always supported me. And and and I know that it makes a difference because every conversation when I meet people, when I'm with them, I'm as present as I can be. Because look, I'm lucky to have continuously practiced and taught that, but even more so than with my kids. And that's not to say that I'm loving every minute when they're having a tantrum. It's not to say, okay, here's a real vulnerable share. I I do yell at them. I'm a yoga teacher, and sometimes I'm like tell to my husband, don't tell people I yell at the kids, my career will be over. But but yeah, it's I mean it's like I have three kids. But you know, the yelling is it changes over time, and like I have to, I'm in a good patch, but also like it's okay. Like I am human. And your own kind of pay your own background comes into that, right? Like my God, a hundred percent. It's powerful. Which is what I think all millennial parents struggle with. Yeah. Like that's what we learned. Um we want to be different.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

And you want to be different, but doesn't mean that you have to be perfect all the time. I was listening to a podcast today and it was like or this morning, and it was like, you don't need to be perfect all the time. Like you don't need you know, the intern intranet has said that you know, you have to be calm and peaceful and sit on the floor with your child while they're like hitting you into the face. But like it doesn't it's hard when you're already busy and you've got all these things happening.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

And this is still, you know, coming from a yoga teacher that's been practicing, right? And not to say that yoga teachers have to be perfect, but people do think, you know, oh you're so I'm like, I'm calm with you guys because I'm teaching 20 adults.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah. And they push your buttons as well, like kids.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

They are like, oh, I'm yelling at a five-year-old me, a four-year-old me, a six-year-old meah. But um, you know, but presence and like making that time for them, you know, is is so important to me because it also is just an extension of me making time and being present to other people as well. But it does take practice and it does take like a very conscious choosing of that. And that's what I mean by like offsetting my mental load has to be a conscious everyday me going like, okay, I'm going crazy now. So either unload that verbally to somebody or just what are you gonna do to stop that tea? You know, which for me is just like I I'm not gonna say yes to things if I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

And I always I was just talking to someone about this this morning when the dad's actually that lives in our block, and I was like, sometimes I don't like planning things. I don't want to have like a full schedule. But if someone calls you last minute and you feel up for it, then let's just do that. And like it doesn't need to be scheduled because everything and I feel like when they go to school, when kids go to school, and when you know, Maggie's in Daycare, you're constantly scheduled because they've got actor after school activities and they've got swimming and they've got yeah. Sometimes it's like, let's just go with the flow.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Let's just go yeah, and I was really deliberate about adding on activities for my kids. I think for the first one, you always get a bit excited and you only have one. So it's like, let's put them in things, right? And then I mean, and then I also got the double whammy. So it's like, if I put them in things, it's double the cost right now. Yeah. So, but also realizing like, you know, what what at what age do they really need to do that? So for example, like swimming, right? Like with my first, it was like, oh, well, do some baby classes at one and a half, two years old. You're in the pool with them then. You know, I'm like, I can't I can't be in the pool. I have twins. The joy is dropping them there and going, eating half an hour. So I didn't start the twin swimming until they were four and didn't need me in the pool. And so it's just like considering, you know, what can you not do right now that's gonna make your life a little bit easier? Or what do you actually want to do that you enjoy? So for example, like it because it can sound contradictory when people know me because I say that and yet I love I love having birthday parties, I love celebrating them and I love baking dress and dress-ups. And I always bake for my children's parties and I always am a little bit elaborate with my baking. That's like my little fun bit. And so some people are like, oh my God, like how long did that take you? You know, and depending on what it is, it can take me a bit longer. But I'm like, but I actually like that. Like I chose to do that. You know, I'm not forcing myself to. And then anytime, so then one year it was like quite a big endeavor. This cake that I made, I just said to my friends, I was like, guys, I just I'm I used cake mix instead of like making it pure from scratch. And they're like, you still made the whole thing and decorated it. And so even for me, like even as I say this and teach this, there are moments where I still have that default of like, but you could have just done more. I know like it's so persistent that messaging.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

It is, and like I'm laughing at you because I'm like, I don't even go to the cake mix, I just buy the month cake and decorate it. So I'm like, I'm not going to that level.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

See, I do love, and I really love that when people know that for themselves, right? Guilt-free. I think that's the most important thing. If you can do things that are just guilt-free, and especially with kids, because yes, at the end of the day, they just they don't care. They just want to eat a cake and sing happy birthday with the friends or just with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

And chocolate cake is what, you know, I've been at birthday parties and our shine's gone up and like, what's the cake? As in, like, it's the make or break whether I'm gonna sing happy birthday or not. If it's not chocolate, I'm not doing it. And I'm like, Don't be rude. Sing happy birthday. That is so funny. That's so cute. Um, so I guess in terms of like your biggest trade-off, like what do you think your biggest trade-off has been in terms of entering into the motherhood space, or are you something that you're really grieving?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Or do you know I've had some time now, so the studio's been closed three years, right? It's a train, yeah. That's been three years. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Like they I had it in the keys the day of their first birthday. It's when you know? Felt so freeing. The first, I needed months. I thought it was only gonna be a few weeks. I kept saying to my close students and stuff, like, oh, I'll be back doing something in like three, four months. My husband was like, Why would you even say that? You know, just take time. And luckily we were in a position where we could take some time. So it actually, I would say probably took me seven or eight months to decompress from just. I had the studio for nearly eight years. So it took me almost as long as months, I guess like seven and a half months or eight months, eight months, like one month for every year to just calm down, to just accept that I that I closed that, you know, and and to work through feelings of like letting people down, to let go of I'm no longer a business owner, because I love that title. I love saying I was, you know, only recently, so three years after the fact, most conversations I had with new people that I met, I would always put in that I used to own a CD studio. And I remember I catching myself not long ago, probably like a handful of months ago, and I'm like, why did you do that, T? Like you didn't need to tell them you were a business owner. And I could tell, I was like, Oh, you still that's still a chip on your shoulder that you have to close. And so again, just recently I was like, I okay, I don't need to talk about that anymore. You know, and so I feel like that took me time to grieve. Like, I'm not a business owner, I don't run that ship. And as part of that, like I worked for someone now and I was just telling, you know, well, who I work for actually is like it's a training organization, and I still get to teach yoga teacher trainings. So the only job, the only role I would have ever taken, I got by put in the work to do that. Like I had to take an additional certification in training.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

I remember doing some of the course with you, didn't I?

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yes, yes, I did some training bits with you, but I knew to get that job, I needed to have a certificate certificate in training and assessment. So, you know, I did that, right? And so that after that grieving period of closing the studio, then I was like, oh, there's this rule for yoga teacher trainer. Okay, I need to do that training and assessment. I'll do that, right? And so I was kind of okay with life then because I was like, I'm doing this. But then I started to feel the pressure of life and not really from my partner, but a little bit like, you know, it's it's expensive to live in Sydney on one income. So I was like, oh my God, I better start getting a job. But there was still a bit of like, but I want the right job and who who can I work for? I'm not gonna work for someone. But there was this role, and so very luckily I applied and they I didn't get a call back right away. And I I thought, like, the role's filled, I'm not gonna get it. What am I gonna do? And I focused on online. But then luckily, you know, months later I got the call and I I just love it. You know, I feel so lucky that I got this role that, you know, I'm getting paid and I get my super paid. We were just having a laugh about then as well. And it's like somebody can somebody else. Like for 15 years, I don't have to do my own taxes in that regard, like as deeply or that someone else is paying my super, but that's how the time changes. But I also, I guess, was really focused on still wanting what I wanted. And I I keep saying I'm lucky, but then I'm like, if you do consistent work towards what you want, in a way, like it doesn't come from nothing. I'm not just like, oh, please, universe, give it to me. Like I'm doing what needs to be done and staying as focused as I can be. And I do believe that that has what brought in every season of my life what I needed. And of course there's of course there's hardships. Yes, exactly. There's little steps and just going, stay true to the course, right? And and having your own practices. So, which for me is um yoga in different forms. It's not one hour of yoga day.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

That has changed long ago, you know, withn't it funny, like it's you know, even Fanula has a giggle with me sometimes because she's like, Remember when I used to say things like, you know, to take out your mat and now that she's become a mom, she's like, It's not possible because they'll wake up the minute you could step out of bed. Or yeah, life changes, I think, when when like your practices have to kind of evolve with you because you don't have that time anymore.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

100%. And being honest with yourself about that and being okay with it and uh always checking in. Always checking in in an honest way with yourself, even if it makes one of a cry because you're like, oh, that's not who I was. You're not supposed to be like that anymore. Like we're growing, we're always growing. So what are your practices now? So you do So my practices are like for me, yoga counts as anything that connects me with myself. And I tell my students that. So that could be physical practice, which I still love, but it's more like 15, 20 minutes and specific. So I'm my body has changed a lot. So I can't just go into deep back bends, you know. Like I want to do some hip openers, I want to do slow things, I want to do maybe two or three sun salutations. But I love strength training now. Yes, of course, we all know that we need it as women at this age, but I I do enjoy it. So I might do like a 30-minute at home. I can't even think about doing gym stuff, that's not me, or a run because I, you know, I used to hate running for years. Then I got into a pocket where I loved it, then I couldn't have it anymore. But now for me, it's like there's no watch. I never wear a watch, and if I can, I never bring my phone. I just go run as far as I want to run and back. Yeah, you know, and luckily enough, I'm in a phase where my kids are in between, like they have daycare some days and they're with my in-laws, and I have them on weekends and one full day a week, the twins. And my daughter, of course, is in year two. So I, you know, it's taken me years to get to this place where I feel balanced, if you will. But the daily practices are just something where it doesn't even have to be daily, it's like in the week, right? If we're being honest as moms, right? The yoga is probably one or three times a week. Yeah. The but I can do like breathing in my car to just to just ground. I can um go for a run. Usually once a week, I have just a date that I started making with one friend. Yeah. Um or seeing somebody and really just having a nice coffee, even if it's 20 minutes or 30 minutes. That was me this week, wasn't it? Or yeah, it was lucky. I think I have one more this week. So, you know, just be selfish. You know, and I I know that for some women that can sound easier said than done. But if you don't do something that makes you happy, well, like what are you doing? You know, it's like you can't just live on repeat doing only things for other people.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yeah, because it can feel selfish, but it actually isn't at all selfish because it's you're a better person when even if it's just a coffee or exactly you know, there was and I need to to get back into it. But like there was once a week or once every two weeks I used to go to Humming Puppy and Redfern, and it was just that getting into the car, doing my cards after the yoga. Yes. And having that time and having the tea, and you know, sometimes Tara would go and sometimes I'd meet nobody, but it was just that time for me. In that time. The drive home, the drive there, and then you go back and you're like, right, I'm ready for Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

But it is actually just kind of seizing the opportunity and doing things that you can do that you can fit in, because I think that's really important. So true. Instead of going, I can't do yoga, just go, I can do 15 minutes, or like that, the breath where I even try started to do with Maggie lately. She started it to get real worked up and you know, she'll start doing the like breath in and then the puffing out, and I'm like, and it helps her so much, it brings her back down.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

They love it.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

And I look at her and I'm like, What if only I could do that sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 37:21

You know, I can if I can remind myself in the moment. And you know, actually one thing I would say is like, as I say these things, I only know this because like I have been teaching for a long time and I teach that to my students, and obviously I practice that, which is why I I say it so confidently. But if you're sort of new to this space of like, how do I get out of that? Or like you have young children, like still really young, you know, this is gonna take a little bit of extra work outside of your normal, but like write down a list of things you actually like. Because sometimes people forget, like, what did I used to like? Yeah, and what did I do with my time before the kids? So maybe make an active list of like I like to read. I like to just sit at my window with a coffee and look outside. Even as simple as that, you know? But have that list so that you're like, oh, I remember now. So that when you actually have that opportunity, you're like, oh yeah, I I, you know, I just wrote down those things that I know so that they're at hand. Because sometimes when you're so deep in the routine of of course you're gonna be like, I don't I don't even I can't even think about what I like to do. You know?

SPEAKER_01 38:20

And I think as well, that's such an interesting point because I go through it all the time. You're like, what did you do without kids? On Saturdays, on Sundays, even after after work, sometimes I'm like, How did we pass our time? Yeah, I know. And all's like we went for nice long lunches and just chilled and like Yeah. But you know, as moms, then you become like super, super efficient with your time because you're like, if I'm I'm gonna make this count, yeah, um, and you know, you're so scheduled that like you become this powerhouse because you're like, right, I can do all of these things. Exactly. When you know, I found it hard to even balance myself last, you know, free kids. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

And it and you know, and it can even be helpful, like if you're so deep in it, like your kids are in the newborn, newborn and like toddler phase, when you're just in that rigmarole, like you can, I think it, you know, people will say, like, don't just wait until whatever. But sometimes it is true. Like I want to just say to moms, like, give yourself a break and be like, I am so tired, like so shattered, like I just I can't, right? There is a reality to that, right? But still consider can I give them to my partner to just have 20 minutes or an alone shower, just a mini, a mini joy, but then add on to that, like maybe even set an al a reminder in your phone for like six months or a year. Because when they when the kids change in age and things get a little easier, it it actually then you're like, oh wait, I have time. And then, but sometimes if you don't consciously think about that, you'll just go back into the routine of like, oh, but now they I have to take them to activities and things like that. But like, so why I say that is so my kid, the twins, they were they were hard until two and three, but then till three and a half and four, I was like, oh my gosh, you're playing over there. You know, like you don't need me to do every single, I don't need to be watching you with every single thing. And then that did feel like more spacious, even in my own house, you know. It's all them changes, yeah. There's they can creep up on you. But if you're not attentive to yourself and already having little things that you like to do, this is when I think months pass by and people are like, Oh, I keep meaning to this thing, but oh yeah, no, or like, oh, it's still too hard. And you're like, not to be like rude, but but like, is it when they're five and seven now? You know, like different things happen, yes. But if you're not thinking about yourself, you will you will never think about yourself. That's such a valid point, yeah. Because you can always put yourself on the back. Yeah, then you will just keep yourself in that space or just always it's for them, always it's for them. But what about what do you like to do? Mini thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

You're creating joy for them, but what about you? You know, like in it's the same. It's like you manage the whole household and everything in it. So it's like So you can manage you. Yeah. You just need to be like better at self-managing. Yes. So in terms then of has there been any oh shit moments, like one where you're like, oh my god, like I really made a big mistake there, or has it just been Oh my god, I I want to say like so many, actually.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

But yeah, and I feel like I don't want to say, like, I guess, I guess, like if I've if I say in like business, right? I think the one that stood out for me when I was thinking about this question is like maybe well, this was this is like the managing people. Okay. So I hired a lot of people that were good teachers, but also that I liked. Because I like I wanted to like the people I work with, especially in my industry. But you know, you don't have to did my relationships, not all of them, but there were a few, you know. And for me, that would have been the hardest where I was like, I I really let the business affect the relationship. But it would in a way I it felt almost inevitable. Yeah. And yeah, you could do things better, but that's hindsight. And so I guess the realization out of that was just like, one, I'm not good at good at managing people, you know, and I don't want to have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

So I Or maybe it's not that you're not good at it, but maybe it's just something that you don't enjoy, or you have never been actually taught very well.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

So two things, right? Yeah, so that, what you just had, which is so true, but also you can't please everyone. No. And especially because, you know, I sat with that. So at first I was like, I I didn't manage that very well, which is true, you know, or I could have learned skills to m be maybe be better. But also, even if I had, could I have fixed that? Maybe not, in at least one of the situations, because you can't make everyone happy. You can't choose, and they're in a different period in life. And so really it just goes back to what I always believe is just so I don't know. I don't even know if this is like a really oh shit, because I feel like I just take things on as they come and everything's fixable in my eyes. In my eyes, it's always like we still live another day. I don't I don't have a life or death work place or a scenario that I ever find myself in. So just in life, like, yes, you will fuck up. Yes, you will, you know, potentially ruin a relationship, but you can still move on. And, you know, I don't like to just close things off forever and just be like block it or, you know, you're dead to me, that kind of thing. But it's more like I'll put in an extra effort, you know, and I'll just apologize. And I have no qualms with apologizing. Like I'm, I mean, I'm 40 now, and I feel like that has taken time to work through as well. And, you know, but yoga also w helps me like let go of ego. And I'm super humble. I'm really willing to apologize, and I will, you know, because I really appreciate honesty, right, between both parties. So for me, it's just like be honest. You can't please everyone, but also like, and I have always lived with this rule, and a lot of my friends and students will know this, but like, don't take anything personally. You truly, which is easier said than done. But that's what helps me move on. Because it's like, even if I messed up and I've apologized and you still have your reasons, either we can continue, you know, or we don't. But at least I was as honest as I was. I could be with you. And at the same time, I'm not gonna begrudge you because you have whatever you have going on or you feel how you feel, and I'm not gonna manage that.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Right?

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Like I know what I feel, you know what you feel, and I'm not you. End of day, right? So that's why I keep going back to like don't take it personally and just be as honest as you can. And that's all you can do.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And you have to lead with kindness. I think that's the part of you know, like sometimes people are in a different place where it doesn't matter how kind you are, there's other stuff that's happening for them that probably affects how you're communicating with them. You know what I mean? You just don't know. Like it's not like a product like that you're dealing with that like it does this and you get instructions and you know how to work it. People are not like that, and everyone is so different. That's where part of my human project came in because I was like, you know, every organization I go into, all of the problems come from differences with people. So people's backgrounds are like no one's programmed the same. Exactly. I people have these different ways of communication and receiving information and yeah, yeah, it's really funny actually.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Just I just think like be honest, right? Like to to the original question of just like w you know, the oh shit, and then what happens, it's like just be as honest as you can be with yourself and the other person. Yeah. And that's that's all you can do.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

I think that's a pretty good reflection. We're near the end tea, and I know we could talk, we've joked about this, we could probably be on a podcast for hours and split it out.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

So many things.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

So I've got one final question that I normally like to ask. So for any other mothers listening out there that feel the pull towards something else, and it doesn't mean building a business or, you know, maybe it's a side hustle, maybe it's taking a step back, maybe they don't want to be a manager anymore. What are your tips for them?

SPEAKER_00 45:39

My tips would be tip with yourself, you know. And that doesn't mean necessarily mean meditating. If you like to meditate, do it because I think that does help. But that can just mean having a quiet moment with yourself. Maybe you doodle some things, or maybe just ask, like, what do I really want? Like, what do I really want right now? And it can be like also what I don't want, right? Like, I don't want to work for this business anymore. I don't want to work with these people, I don't want to manage, for example. Right. And just be on because you don't have to fix it in that moment. But to just be real with yourself, what do I do want? Right. So for me, I want to spend more time with my kids. I want to maximize as much time that I want to do with my kids. I mean, so as I say that, for me, maximizing my time with my children is having them in daycare a few days, having them with my in-laws, and then having them for, you know, three, three or four days. And my daughter, like my eldest, outside of school. I want to spend time with her during school holidays, but I also want her to see her grandparents. So it's like, you don't have to be a martyr to anyone. You don't have like, don't think about the outside eyes or that there is no model for what you should do. Zero. And this is why this list or this, you know, sitting with yourself and considering these things is important. What do I not want right now? And what do I want? And it doesn't have to happen in this moment, but once you see it, you can work towards right. Once you see it, you can go, okay, now if I don't want to work there, what do I have to do? Then work through the steps of that. Because for most of us, hopefully, you're not in a life in death. If you're in a life in death, find some support immediately through family, friends, external support. But if you're not in a life in death, but you want to make a change, be with yourself because you are the one living your life. You are the one that matters the most. You are the one with one, two, three, however many kids you have. You are the one in a good relationship or in a not good relationship, you are the one that are is in this type of business. No one is living your life. So you need to sit and go, what do I like? What do I want? What do I enjoy? Because even if you go, if you've realized the things you enjoy and can just do that once a week, because at least again, when you have that little bit of time for yourself or doing something you enjoy, that opens space to continue your path. And actually this one line that I heard, which uh like has really inspired me for the last few years, is that action creates motivation. Because we keep thinking, I need to be motivated before I do it. But it's actually action. The little steps. Yeah. It's like doing the thing I enjoy or, you know, understanding myself a bit more. And once you take that little action, whatever it is for you, that's what builds the motivation. So I mean, even with this podcast, it was the same.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

I think I spoke to you way back about it. But it was actually just them little things of like, and little taps and nudges that were happening along the way that I actually took some heed to. Like instead of pushing them away, I was like, Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Like it exists there for a reason. You wrote it down for a reason. You thought about it for a reason. You know, and that of course can change, which is why regular check-its with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Because you forget to do the regular check-in. We always talk about that, you know, in terms of, you know, even in an organization, you have these performance reviews, but I say to people, when was the last time you had one with yourself? Like and you sit down and go, Did I enjoy that work, or is that client someone that I want to attract, or is it someone I want to steer away from, or do I enjoy what I do anymore? Yeah. So it's kind of it's a good tip. So the last question in this season, who are you becoming?

SPEAKER_00 49:09

I am becoming excuse me, a just a mom that wants to be there for her kids, that they want to talk to about things, and that apologizes when I mess up. And I do think about that through a year, as we've said, about the way we were raised. And I love my parents dearly, you know, but I do have the tools for this to use my words. And so I want to use them with my children in that way. And but just as a person, I just have come through this very true realization. And it just has always been building that. I I am really a creative. I love creating things. And now that my kids are a little older, again, I've just shifted a little bit more into a different way. I just want to create as much as I can in all the ways that I want to, you know, and just doing it in little bite-sized pieces. So just as a funny thing that you don't know. But just very recently, I hemmed up some pants and I was like, I I used to really like sewing as a, you know, in my teens. Of course you did. So now my new side thing is like, I get, you know, I started making a pair of pajama shorts and I'm like, oh, I want to make like a linen set. So so now I'm also, you know, a clothesmaker. You're on top of a baker, on top of a yoga team, you know. And I just go, I am so unembarrassed to just be mean. Just try things.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I mean, it would be very boring if you sat there in a little square going, oh, that looks really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Or even being like, oh, like what would that oh my God, they're just gonna think that tea does too much or that tea, you know, wants to do it all. I don't want to do it all. My brain is just a crazy place and I have ideas, and and that's why I say I just embrace that.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

I love creating, and I don't care if that makes me crazy or, you know, I just that's who I am and I I just after I am after remembering all the baked goods that you used to bring into the yoga, you know, the room that we used to sit in and the deep conversations we used to have. God, I think that I spoke more freely in that room than I have to anyone. And you know, like we all had the raw, raw baking that you used to make, and then we also um had such a good chat in there, like we weren't really deep.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

So we went so deep. Oh my gosh, was but that's you know, I think that's just an extension for me of like presence with people, you know. For me, like again, sharing a part of myself, which is so true, which is baking, and which I do with my students now in my like the college that I teach at. And they're always joking. They're like, when will you open the bakery? And I'm like, I'm not nah. I already did yoga for money. I'm not baking for money. I bake from pure love. And and it just and it connects people, right? Food connects people. And so I just go, look, I'm I am that person, but I always tell people like, don't ever compare yourself to me. Everything T's doing at all. I'm not doing at all. I'm a crazy person. I I have a lot of energy naturally, and I and I am just I just like that. But you do what you like always, right? Beyond it's a good reminder, isn't it? Like, yeah, everyone needs to be doing what other people are doing, right? Other people are not trying to sew stuff like in their spare time. Most people are just trying to like scroll on Insta or something. Exactly. I'm like, but if you do like something, if you love gardening, if you love being a plant mom, you know, or if you love doing like whatever else you do, just indulge in that. You don't also don't have to sell people like, but just do the thing that really makes you happy. Yeah. Because that's that's how then you can be happier with everyone else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

T, I've loved our chat. I love talking to you all the time. And I can't wait to release this one because I think this one resonates with a lot of people, be it be a mom or anyone that's in business or that actually is just working for somebody or wants to actually change their career. And I've loved having you. So thank you. Thank you so much. Love it. Thank you. Bye.