The West Auckland Poisoner | Mary Ann Cotton

Britain's deadliest secret lived in a quiet pit village in County Durham — and for nearly two decades, she was hiding in plain sight.

In this episode, we're diving into the chilling true story of Mary Ann Cotton: Victorian nurse, four-time widow, and the woman believed to have poisoned up to 21 people — including three husbands, a lover, her own mother, and eleven of her thirteen children. Her weapon of choice? Arsenic. Cheap, tasteless, odorless, and in the 1860s, available at your local shop with zero questions asked.

We'll take you inside the coal mining villages of industrial northern England and ask the question that haunts this whole case: how does someone kill for twenty years without anyone connecting the dots? Plus — the one careless sentence that finally gave her away, a trial with its own controversies, and an execution that was, to put it mildly, not clean.

This is the story of one woman, a Victorian world full of blind spots, and a crime spree that should have been impossible — and almost wasn't.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm Chelsea and I'm Jenny, and this is well I don't have an interesting anything to get started.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

I'm just gonna jump into it. Alright. Okay. So Mary Ann Robson was born probably October 31st, 1832. So we are in Victorian England again. Like the probably. It's not a hundred percent. I do have I found her christening record from November 11th, 1832. So probably October.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Uh that shows her parents as Michael and Margaret Robson in Durham County, England. According to other genealogy records I found, she may have had a brother and sister, but they are never mentioned in other sources. So but she probably had, you know, it was probably a small family. Okay. She lived with her parents in a mining village in Merton because her father was a sinker in the coal mine. A sinker's job, because I do not know these things. I had to look up so many terms for this whole thing. That was me in the last episode. That's why I had so many parentheses going, and this is this. Yeah. A coal mine was really like it's like Merton colliery is how it's said, but I had never heard that word before. But it's just all of the things involving a coal mine.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

So I'm just saying coal mine.

unknown 1:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Of a sinker. Yes. So a sinker's job was to create new vertical chefs. Oh, okay. Which uh seems incredibly dangerous. Absolutely. I think it was regarded as like a a very highly skilled job, which makes sense. Um in 1842, he actually died in a coal mine, possibly by falling over a hundred or a hundred and fifty feet down a shaft. Dang. Yeah. I believe her mother remarried or married again. She married um George Stott in 1843, about a year after, probably. Uh, which makes sense because it was probably very difficult for women in the mining community.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah. And in general.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

And yeah. Yeah. So after her father's death, Marianne left home to go work as a nurse for a Mr. Potter for about three years. And she returned home and worked for a dressmaker for some time. Oh. Yeah. So then we're gonna jump forward a little bit in time. Okay. On July 2nd, 1852, Mary Ann married William Mowbray. They lived away in a few different places because William also worked in coal mines. Um, the Industrial Revolution created a significant demand for coal with all of the like steam engines and all of the different things. So there were a lot of mines and workers. They ended up coming back to the Durham area, I believe it was South Hetton specifically. And when she came back, she said that she had four children in the time that they were away, but they had all died. Oh. And I have a little information about infant mortality rate because this was not uncommon in this time period. The infant mortality rate around this time was roughly 150 deaths per 1,000 births. Dang.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

That's crazy. Yeah. Not a good time. Was this also the time? I mean, because I know in different periods of time where families had like six or seven children because like four might make it to adulthood. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Okay. Yes. So they did have four more children over time. Uh, they had Mary Jane, Isabella, Margaret Jane, and John Robert. Um, some of the sources say different names for a couple of the daughters, like Mary Jane and Margaret Jane. Some say Mary Ann. I don't know. I just went with the ones that I thought were more factual. Um, her husband William eventually was a foreman at a mine and then became a fireman on a steam vessel. On June 24th, 1860, their daughter Mary Jane died at just four years old of gastric fever. Sounds like a rough way to go. Yeah. So gastric fever seemed to be credited for a lot of deaths at this time. The typical symptoms were vomiting and diarrhea, which are symptoms of a lot of different illnesses. But gastric fever was just sort of the common, like, go-to cause for a lot of yeah, a lot of deaths. I guess it is also later known as typhoid fever. Oh. Which I didn't know. Like every time I was looking up gastric fever to be like, what is this? Just typhoid fever comes up.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

So yeah. I wonder when the name changed. That's weird.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Tragedy struck again, and their son, John Robert, died on September 22nd, 1864, also of gastric fever. Then her husband William died of an intestinal disorder or gastric fever in January of 1865. So just a few months later, yeah. Um, I think I read that there were not really pensions for widows of coal miners at the time. Oh, that sucks. Yeah. So William did have life insurance, and like on him and the kids, which paid out 35 pounds, which was about six months wages. Oh. So still not a lot. Probably a good amount for the time, but six months' wages doesn't Yeah, that's not gonna get you by for long. Right? And then just a few months later after that, Margaret Jane died on May 2nd, 1865, also of gastric fever. Do they have one left? Yes. Okay. And at some point, that daughter, Isabella, went to go live with Marianne's mother. Okay. Because how are you gonna support yourself and a child after your husband dies? I, you know. Yeah. So then, after the death of William, Marianne went to work at an infirmary in Sunderland. One of her patients was a man named George Ward. As the story goes, of nurses and patients. They were married in August of 1865. Uh, he was not a super healthy man. But they met at a hospital, so yeah. Yeah. And I'm unsure on the timeline of all of this, but he was attended by a couple of doctors that could not figure out what was wrong with him. Um, he had stomach pains and weakness. The doctors tried to treat him, but he just wasn't improving. At one point, Marianne accused one of the doctors of negligence and didn't want him seeing her husband anymore. She called in a new doctor that didn't know her husband's medical history or previous treatment. And when he arrived, he said George was near death. So, yeah, I don't know how long they were trying to treat him and take care of him, but George died in October of 1866 at just 34 years old. Thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Of some unknown cause. Yeah. For the time period, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

I'm sure it's something later that they'd be like, oh yeah, this was like Crohn's. Right. She did ask the doctor to certify his death as typhus fever. Um, but the doctor wanted to know why. And she didn't give a reason. So I mean it is a little weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

But it wasn't that.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah. But I don't know if the doctors, I cannot remember in this case if the doctors figured out what it was, or like if they certified, or if she was just like, hey, I need the di the death certificate, like, just say it's this. I don't know. I what everybody else died of, just be another one. Right. So about six weeks later, after George's death, Marianne found employment as a housekeeper for a man named James Robinson, who worked as a shipbuilder. His wife had died, and he had five children to take care of. Oh, jeez. So makes sense that he would be needing some help.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

I guess Marianne was an excellent housekeeper. Because according to a newspaper article, James's opinion of her was, quote, the new housekeeper possessed all the domestic qualities a husband could desire in a wife. His sisters were even impressed with her and said she was strong and clever. I mean, she was she was a wife. She Right. Like twice. Yeah. And I think like her first husband, they were married starting, yeah, in what did I say, 1852, and then he died in 1865. So I mean they were married for quite a while. Yeah. At least back then.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

All the qualities of a wife. I mean, 'cause she was one, and she does know how to do that, yes. Right?

SPEAKER_00 10:39

So Tragedy struck again soon after Marianne arrived, and James's youngest son died at just ten months old on January 4th, 1867. Oh. That would be the gastric. Yeah, I'm I'm I didn't write it in my notes, but I am like 90% sure that that's what that was. Just throwing a guess out there. Yes. Yeah. A few months later in March, Marianne visited her mother because her mother was sick. Um, she ended up dying shortly after Marianne's visit, and Marianne's daughter was brought back to live with her and James. Apparently, there was a dispute between Marianne and her stepfather. Marianne may have taken valuables from the house, and her stepfather may have told her not to come back.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

So I I mean Oh, because her mom was married to not her original dad? Mary Ann's mom? Right. Okay. Yeah. I was thinking the the daughter of um yeah, the main character for the case. They got they got married already? What do you mean? I thought he was just talking about okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Ah, well, that's unfortunate. Yes. Uh, and then yeah, James and Marianne didn't really tell anyone that they got married in the summer of 1867. That's all of this is happening, and then they get married, which is fair. Yeah. Because this is Marianne's third husband, James's second wife, plus her mother just died, James's son just died. So they have all the kids to take care of, and yeah. It it kind of makes sense. In April of this must be the next year, or no, of eight eighteen sixty-seven still. Um, in April, James's son, James and daughter Elizabeth became very ill. A doctor came to see them twice a day, every day, and saw Marianne give them the medicine that he prescribed, but they weren't getting better. Within 10 days of becoming sick, both children died. Oh wow. Marianne made a comment that she wouldn't be surprised if her daughter also became sick. And then her daughter also became sick and also died. These children died over the course of one month. And at some point, James and Marianne had a child who also died in December of 1867. I think Marianne just needs to be locked in a room away from everyone. So my my next sentence here is so you might be starting to be suspicious of Marianne. Yeah, that's a lot of random typhoid fever outbreaks. Yeah. Um, James was also getting suspicious. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Everything was fine until you showed up and then two of my kids died. Uh-huh. Well, three, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah. Yeah. Uh he said he didn't like to think about it, but he and his sisters started to think that Marianne was poisoning the children. Um, James also found out that Marianne had accrued some debt and he was basically going to break up with her. So she left. And she also she took their I I wrote she took their last remaining child and disappeared for a while. Um, but she brought the child back on New Year's Day, just brought their kid back to a house in like the middle of the night or something is kind of how it was described, and just never seen again. Huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah. Marianne had also asked him to take out life insurance, but he refused. So I don't know. At some point, a friend named Margaret Cotton introduced Marianne to her brother Frederick Cotton, who was recently widowed and had already lost two children. He lived in Walbottle. And after they were married on September 17th, 1870, they moved to West Auckland. Uh, she was still married to James, but I'm guessing Frederick did not know that or anything else about her. Probably not. Um, her friend Margaret Cotton also died of some mystery stomach illness around this time. Hmm. So don't have kids with this woman. Yeah. Just uh so Frederick died in December of 1871. So they were married 1870, about a year later. He dies.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

So many.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

And then his son Frederick died March 9th of 1872. And their son together, Robert, died.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Okay, so he's he had two sons that died previously. He still had a kid. He still had children, yes. Oh, okay. Yes. And then they had a kid? Yes. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Uh yeah. So then yeah, so March 9th, one son dies, and then their son dies March 28th. Uh Marianne received life insurance for Frederick and the children.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Cool. Mm-hmm. Was it enough to pay off her debts so she can stop poisoning everybody?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Oh no, no, no. No. She never she never claimed any of the debt. She left that on her husband, on James. And he ended up having to sell his house or get rid of his house if they were renting or whatever, and moved in with the sisters. And yeah. Oh yeah. She she royally screwed him over. Damn. Yeah. So also sometime around this time, there are some accounts of uh-huh. I just had a rule. Yeah, okay, nope, cute coming. Okay. There are some accounts of Marianne having a lover, Joseph Natras, around this time who became a lodger at um her house or Frederick's house. Uh he died April 1st, 1872. There is also another like an account of another lover, John Quick Manning, who was potentially going to move in as a lodger. But the last remaining cotton son, Charles, was a problem for that arrangement. Okay. So Marianne wanted to send him to the workhouse, but the man in charge of that decision, Mr. Riley, said he could only send the boy if he sent her as well. And she did not like that idea. She claimed she could be making more money if the boy was at the workhouse. Um, I don't know if that's just, I guess, probably from collecting rent for a lodger or I mean, I guess, yeah. I'm not totally sure. Uh, she told Mr. Riley that she quote wouldn't be troubled long, he'll go like the rest of the cottons. Bam. Charles did, in fact, die like the rest of his family. There were several accounts of him being a healthy, normal boy, and Mr. Riley was suspicious and went to the police. The doctor that did the autopsy on Charles. I I think I didn't include this in my notes, but he did like an initial autopsy and couldn't find anything, and I think determined it was gastric fever or natural causes, something like that, and she almost got away with it. But then he had like preserved some of Charles's organs for further testing, and it even mentioned that the he buried them in his garden. And I was like, I should have looked into if this was a normal practice, or if he just did like maybe he didn't want them to go missing. I mean, that would be fair. They wouldn't go missing if they're on your property. Right. Yeah, so um he tested little Charles's organs and uh found that arsenic was present.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah, so that that dawning look was uh I think I know her nickname. Yeah? Is she Typoid Mary? I don't.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

I did not see that one come up. Okay, because I have heard that before. I have heard that too. I did not see that nickname come up for this.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

But still, yeah, or that's so many. I'm assuming probably her first four set of kids. Potentially. Potentially, if not like stillborn and just like those. And then her next four set of kids. Uh at least her first husband didn't die of arsenic poisoning. Okay. Uh maybe the first husband. Um the second husband, his five. That's we're we're in like the 20s for body counts at the moment. That's crazy. The fact that she got away with it for that long is insane. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Alright, continue sorry.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

I just have a little bit about arsenic because I didn't know a lot. So, yeah. So, what is arsenic? I apparently did not pay attention in science class because I did not know that it was on the periodic table. I felt very dumb. Uh, because I was actually asked to leave my chemistry class in my junior year because I didn't care about school or learning or getting the safety goggles, you know. So well, yep. But I love learning now, so it's okay. Um, Google also has a really cool interactive periodic table. Like, if you're into that, it like it shows like you can just like click on all the things and it shows you, yeah. I don't know. I I thought it was cool. Um, okay, so, anyways, according to the World Health Organization, arsenic is a quote, natural component of the Earth's crust and is widely distributed throughout the environment in the air, water, and land. It is highly toxic in its inorganic form. Okay. So it can be found in water and some foods. It has also been used in several processes to Make glass, pigments, textiles, leather, pesticides, preservatives, and so on. So it's inorganic forms. You can find in the earth's crust and it'll be fine, but I think it's still it's it's toxic both ways, organic and inorganic, but the yeah. It's just it's not good. No. Um yeah. So the symptoms of arsenic poison poisoning, not just like exposure over time, um, are vomiting, diarrhea, numbness, tingling, muscle cramping, and death.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

That sounds pretty mild, honestly, compared to a lot of other poisons. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

I know over time like long time or long-term exposure to it can cause like types of cancer and stuff like that. But yeah. And I also learned that arsenic in water in several, like 70 countries is a big problem. Oh. And that the World Health Organization estimates between 94 and 220 million people are at risk of exposure to elevated arsenic concentrations in groundwater. Dang. Yeah. So that was just the more you know. Careful about what you drink, I guess. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think it's a pretty safe thing to the to assume don't drink water that's on the ground, but like also some places you don't always have too many outfits. That luxury, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

So I know when you're out like camping and stuff, they give like what the filter straws so that you can drink from the rivers and yeah, if you need to still water of lakes and things, but yeah. Yeah. There are lake water is so disgusting. Yeah, at least river water is running. Yeah. Lake water is something else. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

I don't like it. I love lakes. I don't like to be in them. Unless it's very large. Okay. So now that we know the symptoms of arsenic poisoning, the deaths that followed Marianne seemed to be a pattern. Uh, yeah. Most of the deaths were attributed to gastric fever because of the vomiting and diarrhea, and arsenic poisoning wasn't even on the radar. Like, that wasn't even a concern or a thought. And she moved around all the time. So it was not the same doctors attending people, not the same families. Like, she was all over the place. So it kind of makes sense that they didn't catch on. And arsenic was also found in so many things in this time period, like pesticides and wallpaper, or like the wallpaper die. And it was fairly easy to buy. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

But I love little tippets like, oh yeah, wallpaper used to have arsenic in it. Right. Oh yeah, those green dresses that you were would also kill you. Yeah. Oh.

unknown 25:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah. Uh, there were some accounts of Marianne purchasing arsenic from local chemists. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, that checks out. Yeah. All of this leads to her arrest, and she was charged with the murder of her stepson Charles on July 12th, 1872. However, her trial was delayed because she was pregnant with John Quick Manning's child. So she gave birth while she was in prison on January 10th, 1873. Take that one away from her. Keep it away. Yeah. Uh the trial began around March 5th, 1873, and ended around March 14th. I was going off of newspaper articles, and when they would say, Oh, it ended on Friday, and it would give the date and like the day, but I'm not sure if it meant like that Friday that the paper was printed on, or like the Friday before. So that's what all of the abouts are. Um, the defense claimed that Charles was not poisoned intentionally since there were so many household products that included arsenic, which is unfortunately true. Yeah. Um this did not work, and Marianne was found guilty and sentenced to death. She never fully confessed, though, according to one newspaper article I read, she told a reverend, a reverend that she was responsible, but not intentionally. And when the reverend was kind of trying to ask her about that, like she just wouldn't. Or maybe I'm responsible for bringing all of these products into the house. Oh. I is kind of more what I was wondering. I don't know, because this was the 1800s. I there's not that many records. The fact that there are so many newspaper articles was, I mean, makes sense. It was a big deal. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, she was sent to the gallows that had been erected at the Durham jail. And according to that same article, her quote, occasional attempts at prayer were broken by those agonized shivering. It was evident that she dragged her unwilling limbs by sheer strength of will, and once or twice it appeared as if she was about to break down altogether. Which is fair. She stepped up to the gallows and said, Lord have mercy upon me. The under-sherif fainted as they pulled the lever. She did not die immediately as her neck was not broken. It took roughly three minutes. This was probably due to the executioner, William Calcraft, being notorious for using a short rope. And it was There's our other guy. Our guy who fixed that problem. Some called him incompetent because so many of his executions were like Marianne's. And there is also a connection to the executioner William Marwood. From our previous episodes. William Marwood was William Callcraft's successor, which makes sense because it was William Marwood that came up with the long drop. So after watching, this is not working. Yeah. Because I think Callcraft had like a 40 plus year like career as an executioner. And over the 40 years, he just always used a short rope. And it see, I think I read in like that maybe it was intentional for some people that it he would like shorten it.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

He it would not surprise me if over 40 years if that was just his thing, he found joy in it, I'm sure. That's that sus.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah. Yeah. So yay, for it's all super terrible, but I'm glad that at least Marwood came up with a slightly more humane way to carry out quicker. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So since you were sort of keeping count, uh, you know. Try. Yeah. The count was estimated to be 21, but possibly more. Okay. And I believe that is including the first four children, but I don't know. I didn't I have a list somewhere of all of her victims. Um but yeah, and there aren't records to support all of the children that she claimed to have birthed. Like according to her, it is 13. But records prove at least eight.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

That she claimed to have birthed.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yeah. So I think that would be the four that Yeah, that would be the four originally.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah. The four after. The one with because she didn't she didn't have a child with the dude she met in the hospital. Right. Okay. He died too quick. Yeah. Um, yeah, the one she had with the the guy. I think she has already five kids.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah, and I think they might have they had two children. One died, and then the one she brought back on New Year's Day randomly.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Oh, it was one that she had also had. Oh, okay. And then she had channeled out for that. Yeah, she had so many kids.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yes. Uh, but yeah, so at least eight, but possibly 13. Um the daughter that she had while in prison was adopted and lived until 1954.

unknown 31:18

Good.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Yeah, she had a very long, at least long, long girl life.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Well, I mean, her mom was also sentenced to death, but yeah, she was taken away from that. Yes. So already better chances than all the other ones.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Yeah. I didn't include it in my notes, but I did look her up on like genealogy stuff, and she did have, I think, at least three sons. Two of them did die in war. Uh, so that's not great. But sad. At least she did get to live and have children, and yeah, not die of arsenic poisoning. At like four. Yeah. Yeah. So uh yeah, I guess I just kind of sum it up that she had four husbands, three of which died possibly because of her. Two potential lovers, one died probably because of her, and Frederick's sister, Marianne's friend. And probably her own mother. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah, I can see that too. Where is it? She got her mother, but not her stepfather, kicked her out, possibly, allegedly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Which I mean, she was already staying with James Robinson. I don't think they were married yet, but they were already like she was already living in his house. So I'm like, I get her going to live there, you know, and take care of her mom and stuff. But yeah, I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I don't so did her first husband not fall 150 feet and no, that was her dad. Oh, that was her dad. I thought that was her first husband. Oh, that's right. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yep. Her her first husband died of an intestinal disorder or gastric fever.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yeah. That's right, because her dad died, and then she grew up, got married, and then her husband was also in the coal mining business. Gotcha. I'm there. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

A lot of coal stuff, a lot of yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, her motive is mostly unknown, but we can gather that the life insurance was at least one motive since she was able to collect it from most of her husbands and children. Um, there are a few people who are very sympathetic to her because of her early life and tragedies that she was not responsible for, like the death of her father and being born into the sort of mining community lifestyle that is not easy.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Um, yeah. And I d I don't know if the four children that she claimed to have had, like if they died and it was just tragic, or if she started that early. I'm not sure. And I don't know where I sit on the on the side of like if she was, you know, maybe not innocent, but innocent in the way of if it was intentional or not. I feel like it kind of had to be because you go and you buy arsenic and different things, and then you make it.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

She literally went to a chemist and bought it. That's where your innocence kind of Yeah. If you were buying wallpaper and stuff, sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yeah. Yeah. You bought it from a chemist. And all the comments about like, oh, well, this one'll go like the rest of his family, or you know, it's just, I'm like, yeah, I don't think that she's innocent. I don't, I was I was feeling a little sympathetic myself after reading a lot of things, but I was like, no, I think uh especially because I believe it was like the test that they did on like um Charles's like organs to find out if there was arsenic. Like it was in his stomach. It's not like it was just to him. Yeah, it's not like it was just exposure to it or something. And I'm like, Oh, okay, yeah, I guess that's pretty uh Yeah, that's more intentional.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Granted, Charles also would have been that was the last one that she killed, right? Yeah, so that's way down the line, even if the first ones weren't intentional, and then it just traumatized her to the point she then still continued onward.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah. Yeah, which I mean I can't imagine her not being a traumatized woman. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. The dang. Yeah. Um, but yeah, she had more victims than Jack the Ripper, who committed his crimes about 10 years after Marianne's death. Okay. So she was like England's most prolific serial killer because she had probably 21 victims.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah, no, that's a that is a lot.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Women's serial care killers are scary.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Yeah. Oh yeah. And there's also a children's rhyme about her. Okay. Which I think is just eerie every time because it's kids singing about her.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

The only one I know that has Mary in it's Mary Mary quite contrary. Yeah. Okay, so what's not that one. No, not that one.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

So it is Mary Ann Cotton. She's dead and she's rotten. She lies in her bed with her eyes wide open. Sing, sing, a what can I sing? Mary Ann Cotton is tied up with string. Where, where? Up in the air, selling black puddings a penny pear.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Wow. Yeah. Kids singing about a woman that killed kids is uh still just that's always yeah. Yeah. I mean, all I it seems like. A ring around the rosy, though, so and London Bridge and Yeah, all of them. They're all.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah. Yeah. And then you get to learn about them when you're older and you're like, oh. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Yeah, thanks, TikTok. Ruining my childhood.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

So great, though. Oh yeah, no, it's so. And I did look it up. Typoid Mary is not that one. Okay. Typhoid Mary is Mary Mallon. Okay. An Irish-born cook. Oh, yeah. Still another Mary in history who I must killed people, I'm assuming, off the quick glance. But probably. Yeah. Probably I feel like maybe not quite as successful as this one, but that's 21 people. There's so many. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Granted, also, like we discussed, most of them were also children. So and usually very young. But they were all like very healthy for the most part, like before she came around. So that was kind of the dead giveaway, too. Is yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, when everyone's fine and then someone shows up and they're immediately not fine. Yeah, it's a little suspicious.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Even with the infant mortality rate, because that was like that was I think infant was considered up to one year old, like kids that didn't even make it to like their first birthday.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

So even with that, there's Yeah, well, and even James had gotten suspicious. Until you showed up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

What the hell? Yeah. Oh yeah. And I have a quote from a newspaper article that um I think I think sums it up at least pretty well. It's from the Newcastle Weekly Current from March 14th, 1873, so around the time that she was like found guilty. But her real character has at last come out. The evidence against her leaves no loophole for her escape or hope. And taking all of the circumstances of her crimes into account, the West Auckland poisoner deserves to be spoken of in the same breath as the blackest murderers that have ever disgraced humanity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Yeah. And I do have a picture.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Old. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's an old grinding photo, but those eyes. No care there. Like there's no emotion. No.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. But and it's crazy that she just, yeah, she won people over, like, you know, being a good housekeeper. And just, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, she had to have been. I don't know. Maybe that is what makes her like the most kind of sinister, is that she was so good at getting people to like her and then being good enough to become a wife and mother to all of these children that needed a mother, and then just take them out sort of one by one. And yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Also that being her MO is also just insane.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Dang.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah. Especially because I think the insurance payout for the children was like between two and five pounds.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Well, granted, you said six months for coal mine was what, like 30 something pounds? Okay. Like two pounds is nothing, but it's also the 1800s. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Damn. Poor James. Yeah. Because yeah, he's kind of the only one who really got to live through all that and deal with her, her dad. And then her existing around his children. Yeah. And what that did. Yeah. Wow. Poor guy. At least he had his sisters. Yeah. Damn.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Thanks for teaching us about her.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Right, I know. Super, super. Not light. Yeah, very heavy.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

No, but yeah, I I hadn't heard about that one yet. So the more you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah. I just think it's funny that she came up and like everything referenced to Jack the Ripper and you know, her being worse than him. And I was like, right, so how do we remember Jack the Ripper? Because we didn't know who he was for so long?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Maybe Oh, yeah, the you know uh just him being so ominous and no face.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Yeah. Yeah. Probably the mystery of it and the way he did it, because he only had like a handful. Yeah, I can't remember. There weren't a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So the dark joke, just women will get it done.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

However, her targets weren't exactly um abusive husbands or something, then you know, whatever. I mean not whatever, but like it'd be a little more understandable. But in a sense, yeah that too, but just can't it doesn't in husbands that seemed like they cared. Right. Good jobs and fine, but I didn't I yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

I don't get it, but I don't know if she did it.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Oh well. Well she got what she got.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Yeah. That is true.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Oh well.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

She has been dealt with.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

She has been dealt with. Yeah, the 1800s. She I would hope she'd been dealt with, or dead by now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. Also that one, her daughter, her surviving daughter, just being like, Yeah, so my mom.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Right. Well, and that was, I think, the craziest part to me was that with the potential 13 children this woman had and having one surviving child, that there are descendants of this woman somehow, because of that one child, like that blew my mind. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Uh yeah. I mean, they're fine. I'm sure we are still crazy.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Learned a lot. And learned the arsenic's just there. Everywhere. It's and it's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rightfully so. Yeah.

unknown 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Right. Makes me want to test water around here. Right. Like.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

But yeah. Thank you for informing and teaching.

unknown 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah, it was interesting to learn about. It was a bit a bit heavy, but it was I I feel like I learned a lot more than yeah. Than I normally would have.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

So especially about arsenic since you couldn't do chemistry class.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure I passed it at some point, but not not the first time around. No.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Well, that was it for this week then. Yep. I'll have something fun. I have something for us next week. Oh. Yeah. I'm sure it'll probably not it might pale in comparison. We'll see. But it'll be there. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be it'll be great. Until the next one. Bye. Bye.