The General's Last Act | Slobodan Praljak

In 2017, a convicted war criminal stood in a courtroom in The Hague, heard his appeal denied, declared "I am not a war criminal" — and drank poison. Live. In front of the judges.

This week, Chelsea covers the case of Slobodan Praljak (yes, we're going to try to say it): a Bosnian Croat general convicted of war crimes during the brutal Croat-Bosniak War of the 1990s — a man who was, before all of that, a philosophy professor, a theatre director, and an engineer. The crimes he was found responsible for included the persecution and murder of Bosnian Muslims, and the destruction of the famous Old Bridge of Mostar — a 16th-century Ottoman landmark that had survived four centuries before he came along.

We also get into what happened in the former Yugoslavia, why it matters, and why the kind of tribunal that convicted him is both rarer and more important than most people realize.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I'm Chelsea and I'm Jenny. This is hard. Alright, Jenny. Today I'm actually taking you into a realm that you like a lot. Okay. History. Right? Fun things like that and war, unfortunately, but um we're back there, so you know.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

A lot of this is gonna seem like time is a flat circle. There's unfortunately gonna be some similarities. But also accountability. Oh well, okay. We love that. We do love that. So we're going to start on January 2nd of 1945. Oh. Alright. Right? Yeah. Uh Slobodin Prajak was born in, oh, that's the first one. I have pronunciations also set aside because I needed them. Which is the or was the independent state of Croatia. Modern day it's the Bosnia Herzegovina or Herz Herzeg Bosna, or simply Bosnia.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

So his father, Mirko, worked for Osna or OZNA, the Department for Protection of the People, the secret police of communist Yugoslavia. Mm. And I couldn't find any information about his mother. And he had a brother. Oh, okay.

unknown 1:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah. I specifically looked to find anything about his mom, and it just kept sending me back to nothing else. I was like, alright, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, I don't know about records in that part of the country at that time, but I know a lot of records in wartime are very sometimes they just get destroyed. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah. And I'm assuming because of his father's position, that is the more relevant kind of thing with this tale. His mom's just might not have been. And maybe she didn't even survive childbirth. Who knows? Right. So let's see here. Kitty visit her already. Uh so Prajak attended high school in Siroki Rijek with whom would become the future Croatian defense minister, uh Goj Susak. Wow. If I'm pronouncing that incorrectly, I'm sorry. As he continued his schooling past high school, uh and just into secondary, I think, would be there. Yeah, so past primary school. Uh Prajak obtained three university degrees. Oh wow. In 1970, he graduated with a GPA of 4.5 out of 5 as an electrical engineer from the Faculty of Electrical Engineering in Zagreb. Wow. 1971, he graduated from Zagreb Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences, in which he majored in philosophy and sociology. And in 1972, he graduated from the Zagreb Academy of Dramatic Art. Okay. A well-studied man.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

I was gonna say very well rounded there. All right. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

After all of his schooling concluded, uh, Projek took on a career as a professor uh professor and manager of the electronics laboratory at the Nikola Tesla Vocational High School, also in Zagreb, and lectured philosophy and sociology. Wow. After 1973, he was a freelance artist. The dream that I wish I could have.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

I mean, in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

I mean, yeah. Uh it was even a theater director in theaters in Zagreb, Osujek and Mostar. Uh he even went on to direct a TV series, a couple of TV dramas, a film, and a few documentaries.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Wonder how available those are. You might be able to find them. They're probably not gonna be in English, but you can probably find them. I mean, and I'll get you the names of those actually, too. For the viewers, if you want to check them out, and for you specifically. That'd be cool. Uh, in September of 1991, Project voluntarily joined a newly formed group called the Croatian Armed Forces after the outbreak of the Croatian War of Independence.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

He took his connections and formed a unit composed of artists and intellectuals in Zagreb. Okay. By April 3rd of 1992, Balzak was made a major general and had several responsibilities in the Ministry of Defense and became one of 14 members in the Croatian National Defense Council and a member of the Croatian State Commission for Relations with the United Nations Protections Force. So he was a very important man with a lot of responsibilities and a good standing and a high-ranking standing, too. Yeah.

unknown 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Project petitioned to unblock Sarajevo, but his propositions were rejected, uh, which is a a territorial place. Um in July 24th through November 8th of 1993. He was the chief of staff of the Croatian Defense Council, and in spite of the conflicts during the Croatniak War, he sent a truck full of weapons to the besieged Sarajevo to help the Bosniaks. He also allowed the UNHCR's, or in parentheses, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, humanitarian convoy through to Mostar, which had been stopped in Shidluk. Okay. Yep. Uh his military career was not without flaw, however. Because of course it's not. Again. Uh Projac had been accused of failing to prevent armed forces from committing crimes. Not something that he was blind to, not something that was kept out of his periphery. It just didn't. He had been informed of them and he could foresee them happening, but he did nothing. Love that so much. These crimes include uh murders in the Mostar municipality, removal and replacement of the Bosniak's population of Prozar into detention, destruction of mosques and old bridge in East Mostar, attacking and wounding members of the international organizations, destruction and looting of property in Gurji Vakuv in January of 1993, in Rastani in August of 1993, and then in Stupni Do in October of 1993. Wow after the other. Also in 1993, as a general, Pralzak had been in charge of the Dratelli camp Dratelli camp, uh, which unfortunately was not great. Because in which there the Bosniak men had been brutalized, starved, and some were even killed. Projoct retired fr of his own will from the service on December 1st of 1995. After all that. Yep, all right. Yeah. So if you can see some similarities. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As I was reading, I was like, oh boy, that yep. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

So his post-military career, and don't worry, we'll be bringing it all right back. Uh his post-military career, Prahljack decided to become a businessman. He was successful at it. I mean, with all of his schooling and things, it's would be hard for him to not really be successful at what he does. So he be he co-founded uh the Octavizon or Octavian, very similar in English, uh, in 1995 with his brother Zoran. This company initially produced films, videos, TV programs, as well as publishing projects, books. He was a writer too. Later, however, the company also delved into the realm of real estate and managed a business complex center in Zagreb. All right. Share in Lubushki. Um tobacco factory. And then he also owned shares in a few other companies. Okay. So he was a successful businessman post-military. Yeah. Made his own business, had shares and other things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

And produced still more films and videos and television things, and his own books were published. So he did well for himself. Right. Uh and I just love this little tidbit. In 2008, the Croatian Ministry of Culture deemed that 18 of his works about the Croatian War of Independence, the Bosnian War, and the relations between Croatia, Bosnia, and Herzegovina were brochures of worthless literature. Just lovable.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

I mean, they don't hold back, and I I uh admire them for that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, no, they were very blunt, but like no worthless. I believe it was he had twenty-five works or so total, but yeah, 18 of them. They're like, no. Oh, okay. Uh Projek was among six who ended up being accused by the ICTY, the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. Oh, okay, in relation to the Croatian Republic of Herzeg Bosnia. On April 5th, 2004, Projek voluntarily surrendered and was transferred to the ICTY. It was alleged in his indictment that as a senior military official, as he was, Projek directly and indirectly commanded the Herzeg Bosnia Armed Forces, which committed mass war crimes. Yeah, against the Bosnian Muslim population specifically. Wow. The Muslims cannot catch a break. No. Ever. He was not only closely involved in all aspects of the Herzag-Bosnia military planning and operations, but also the actions of the Herzag-Bosnia civilian police as well. Ooh. So he had not only the military, but the local police too. Yeah. Yeah. Yikes. They had fingers in everything.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

On April 6th, Projek appeared before the ICTY and pleaded not guilty, uh, choosing to defend himself over getting a lawyer. Oh my gosh. Okay. I love that you knew where that was going. Always.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Never, never. Even a lawyer. Even lawyers don't represent themselves. Most of the time. Some do. But don't no. Stop it.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Because you could also just misspeak or miss something. And it you're screwed because you literally only have yourself to blame at that point. Yeah. But yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. No. It's uh yeah. So he chose to defend himself. Uh the trial began on April 26, 2006. And on May 29th, 2013, the trial chamber judgment sentenced him to 20 years of imprisonment. However, they did take into account how much time he had already spent in detainment since it started in 2006.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

I mean, yeah, that is Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

unknown 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

On June 28th, 2013, Projac filed an appeal. He was denied. Right?

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Because you can't even appeal on like, oh, I had a bad defense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah. On the it some, however, of the convictions for his case were overturned. Uh, but on November 29th of 2017, the ICTY trial concluded and found him guilty. And the judge did not reduce his initial 20-year sentence. But also with taking into account the time he had already served, behind bars, he would serve not as nearly as many years.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So it's really not that bad. If anything, the judge kind of did him a solid. He's like, no, the 20-year sentence is fine. He's not reducing it.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

His charges, and these are I have in parentheses what kind of each of these things are for because you probably know more than I do. You're also a military wife, so maybe you know a little bit more. I did not.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

I have no idea what I know, so. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

All right.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

So his charges were four counts of grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions. All right. Which it can include willful killing, unlawful deportation, transfer and confinement of a civilian, inhuman treatment, extensive destruction of property, inappropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly. So that's why as I read these out, let's check some boxes for today. And just go, uh-huh. So we're doing that one, and we're doing that one, and we're doing that one. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

We're doing all of those. Yeah. Next. Six counts of violations of laws or customs of war, cruel treatment and unlawful labor, destruction or willful damage done to institutions dedicated to religion or education. Plunder of public or private property. Unlawful attack on civilians. Unlawful infliction of terror on civilians. Yeah. And then five counts of crimes against humanity. Persecutions on political, racial, and religious grounds, murder, deportation, imprisonment, and inhumane acts.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, so we're doing all of those currently today, unfortunately. Yeah. And it's at this one was found. Accountability is here. Accountability has not yet reached real life yet. Yeah. Not that this isn't real life, but like modern day today.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

On November.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Different conflict.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Different conflict. Yeah. Honestly, same charges probably will be brought up when the day comes. And yeah. Hopefully there's accountability. Hopefully. On November 29th, 2017, during the pronouncement of the appeal judgment against him, Prajak addressed the judges and said, Judges, Slobodin Prajak is not a war criminal. With disdain, I reject your verdict. And proceeded to drink something from a small bottle, which turned out to be potassium cyanide. Mm-hmm. The medical staff rushed him to the hospital where he inevitably died.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah. Yep. Um no there was no findings as to how he smuggled in potassium 99 to the courtroom. Press the everything. Yeah. Uh they an investigation was launched. They looked over footage, they looked over camera footage, rooms, him, like everything. He like they said he didn't have it on him, and maybe it was handed off to him, so possibly it was a pre-planned thing. Uh his lawyer had said they probably did it because he couldn't handle having the title of war criminal over his head, which fair. Don't do the war crime things though, if you can't handle being a war criminal. But after that happened, we have some quotes, one from Martin Bell describing Projek as a theatrical character who died in a theatrical way. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and the former U.S. ambassador for war crime issues, Stephen Rapp, noted the similarities between Projek's suicide by poisoning and that of another war crimes convict, Hermann Gring or Zoring. It looked like a German name. It didn't look like G-O-R-O. Garing, I think. Okay. He noted that in both cases, the verdict nevertheless, in quote, stands for all history in establishing the facts and in showing that perpetrators of atrocities will be held accountable.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Mm-hmm.

unknown 21:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

And that is where I end my tale on that. I liked that quote so much. It was like, yeah, that's just a reminder.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

The president has been set.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah. Yeah. Time and time again throughout history. Yeah. So yeah. He's super well-educated man, well-rounded. Mm-hmm. Joined the military and then turned a blind eye to things he could have stopped.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Or instructed better and been like, hey, don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

And he didn't.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

And that's a lot. Yeah. Four counts of the great breaches, six counts of violations of laws and customs of war, and five counts of crimes against humanity.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah. Yeah. That's just and then unfortunately the families didn't get the justice that they deserved through him spending his time granted. I don't know. There's also something to be said about him serving his time, but also having all that like over half that time already been served because he was in detention.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

So I I feel like as a family member I'd be a little peeved by that one if he just like, oh okay, cool. He was finally charged and now he's gonna serve five years. Yeah. Like, oh, got it. But trials also do take forever.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

I mean, that sounded like forever. Yeah. Cause did you say it started in like 2006? 2006, and then in 2013 is when Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

They finally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah. That's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

It is a long time.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Even like some of the longer trials here, which I don't remember what the record is, but I know a lot of them, it's like a year, couple years, you know, like the lead up three. I mean, three and four seems fairly common, depending on what it is. But um I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

I mean, I could also see it taking so long because he chose to defend himself. Yeah. That does seem to kinda happen sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

I mean, those trials tend to be a bit shorter because they don't know all of the things that they are supposed to do if they yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I mean, if he had just like dragged his feet with getting things sent through, or if he was even allowed, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Well, and yeah, and it's totally different country, so I don't know about their customs, but I know like if you just if you miss filing dates, you miss filing dates. So fair, yeah. Yeah. Um it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yeah. But yeah, so very long trial, and yeah, was absolutely found guilty of crimes against humanity that he had knowledge of and let happen. Yeah. Yep. Inadvertently, the blood is still on his hands. Yeah. Yeah. And then took the the he died by his own hands. I I don't know. It's an interesting I wouldn't necessarily say take the coward's way out.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

But I mean, you could argue it from both sides. I mean, he the definitely the way his ego was, he wasn't going to, you know, be actually held accountable for it. So yeah. I I don't know, because yeah, he also had such a short time left that he probably would have had to serve. So like I'm not praising him for anything by any means. I'm just saying, like, I'm like, uh, a lot of people in the States do not feel that when someone takes their life instead of finishing out their term, that that is justice. But then I'm also like, well, he's He's dead now. So he's gone.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

He's not gonna do it again. Yeah. Uh yeah. But yeah, and honestly, because of the amount of time he had or would have had left to serve, it definitely leads more to uh what his lawyer had stated about how he just couldn't live with the title of war criminal being over his head and on his reputation.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Yeah. Well, when you've spent a bunch of years being a decorated, you know, high-up kind of person, and then you know, I mean, I I would believe that he thought he was making good choices at the time, you know. Like, I mean, he it may not be that he I mean, it could very well be that he was a totally evil person and was making terrible decisions. Those do exist. Yeah. Um, but it also could be that that was the the choice to make in the moment, and you know, thought he was doing the right thing. Lots of people do terrible things thinking that they are correct.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So that's usually why wars happen. Yeah. Well, sometimes weren't oil. But yeah. Correcting the oil. Yeah. Uh yeah. So there's just just a I was feeling political today.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Hard not to. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yeah. And you just need a little reminder that even though things can get very, very bad, that accountability will be held in time eventually. Yep. One day. Yep. Hope hopefully. You know. Uh oh that that wasn't too political for you guys. Yeah. But just a a little brightness reminder too, also, that everything it okay, this is gonna sound a little dark and damning, but everything ends. The good and the bad. So you just gotta make it there, unfortunately. Yeah. Power through the best you can. Yeah. On that note. Yeah. Next week Jenny will have something for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

I will indeed. I don't know what it is yet, but we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yeah. There's tons of things to choose from. Yeah. And also to point out the whole cyanide thing, as we learned from my last one, you can take make cyanide from Laurel leaves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

So, yeah. Yeah. Which also note on that, uh, when I was getting bay leaves out of the cabinet, uh, when it says a laurel on it, I was like, oh, is that why you don't eat those? You just put it in for flavor and then you maybe. I have no idea. I didn't look into that, but I was just like, really?

SPEAKER_00 28:22

I do see um, because I stock laurel leaves in my day job, and so it's like just hanging poison.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Right, they're dried, so I doubt it's gonna be yeah, but you just always put like three bay leaves into something as you cook it, and then you take them out. Everything says take it out. Yeah. I'm like, well, it's hard, it doesn't like really rehydrate. But like I'm like, but what if? Yeah, right. We just have laurel leaves in our cabinet, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

The things you can do with your home goods. Right. Take care of yourselves. Right. We will see you next week. Bye.