Fox Hollow Farm | Herb Baumeister

One of the most prolific unsolved cases in American history — and somehow, you've probably barely heard of it. 

In this episode, we're covering one of the most chilling cold cases still unfolding today — a sprawling Tudor estate in Indiana, a killer who vanished before he could be brought to justice, and thousands of human remains that have never been identified.

We dig into the disappearances of young men from Indianapolis's gay bar scene in the early '90s, the eerie details of Fox Hollow Farm, and what investigators found when they finally got access to the property. Plus — a tiny but personal connection to the ongoing identification effort that is still happening right now.

The genetic genealogy identification effort for Fox Hollow Farm victims is ongoing. If you have taken a DNA test and want to learn more about contributing to unidentified persons cases, visit [NamUs.gov] or the DNA Doe Project. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm Chelsea and I'm Jenny and this is Daphne Carvan.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Right. Well, today I am probably stretching the scope of our podcast a tiny bit. Okay. Um, there's no plants. There's there's not really a garden. How dare you? I know. There is a farm, but it's not even really a farm. Okay. Um, yeah. We'll get to it, but it it's it's loosely related, I guess. So today I am going to tell you about Herb Baumeister at Fox Hollow Farm.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

That is quite the name.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yes. You may have heard about it. It's been covered by a few big podcasts. There's a Hulu series, there are some books, yet I feel like for how many victims have been found and where the case currently stands, it doesn't seem like it has had a lot of attention.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I did not finish the Hulu series. Um I started to watch it, but it yeah. Um it did compare Herb and his crimes to those of Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, but without the media attention.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Gotcha. All right. So a lot of victims.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah. Um, and it probably didn't get that attention because there wasn't a trial. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Usually trials definitely bring more of the public eye to things.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Um, I also have a teeny tiny connection to this case that I will mention later. Ooh, okay. It's very teeny tiny, but it's yep. Herb Baumeister was born April 7th in 1947 in Indianapolis, Indiana. His father was an anesthesiologist, and his childhood was pretty normal. He went to college and met Julie, and they were married in 1971. About six months after they were married, his father had him committed to a psychiatric hospital for two months. Oh wow. Um, it seemed like he was having a really rough time, I think, between his job and life, I guess. I'm not totally sure about those circumstances, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah, it's a little strange to be like, oh yeah, all through childhood, all through college, everything else, fine, fine, fine, fine, and then finally hit a point where they're like, you get to be put into psychiatric help now.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Out of almost the blue, kinda.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah. I'm guessing that there were signs.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah. And like you said, if it was due to like pressures of just being able to balance everything, everyone's got a breaking point. So might have just hit his.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah. They had three kids.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

They decided to open a business that was a thrift store named Save a Lot.

unknown 3:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

I guess that it was kind of compared to a goodwill. Um, the store did well enough that they opened another location. Um, but at some point the business started to fail. I'm not super clear on the timeline of these, um, like this thing exactly, but he was seen as a successful businessman. So I'm guessing it was a little while after that it they didn't do so well. Um things were not going well for them, I think, either in the business or in their marriage, or both. Uh, but somehow they managed to purchase the Fox Hollow Farm in 1991, which I think was about a million dollars.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

He did well enough to be able to afford that. Mm-hmm. All right. And also, yes, I think I have heard of the Fox Hollow Farm, if I'm correct. Then his name escapes me, but I do yeah, yeah. Sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah. So a little bit about Fox Hollow Farm. It was an 11,000 square foot Tudor style house on 18 acres of land.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

That's a big property.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yes. It had an indoor swimming pool, two libraries, a five-car garage, and stained glass windows.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Jeez, alright.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah. I think on one article it said something about like it could fit like two like golf courses or something. Like it was crazy. Yeah, it's very large and like wooded and for having a failing business.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I think they were fine.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

A right. Certainly seems that way. And Julie and the kids would also go out of town over the summer for vacation, and he would stay home to take care of the business. So they, you know, they were doing pretty well. Yeah. Around this time, a lot of young gay men went missing. Many of them were last seen at known gay bars, because this is also the 90s, so like being like have like gay bars being like a prominent thing was not, you know, as common. Like they existed, but it wasn't necessarily like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

They had their very specific places, yeah. Not a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah, very safe places. And, you know, a lot of people would use like aliases and stuff because if they were, you know found out bad things could happen, their lives could be in jeopardy.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah. Or just lose their job or cut off from family and you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Not a great time. Not really, no.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

And Indiana, I think at that time, I mean, even now still, is not maybe I don't know how to say it exactly. Like it's a I don't think of Indiana and think of like a super safe place for for the queer community. Yes, yeah. Probably more so now. But back then, probably not.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Especially you said India Indianapolis. Yeah. So main city hub, probably a lot better now than it was back then. Yeah, right. I love Indianapolis. That's great. One day I'll go. Yes. I've never been.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

So yeah, and at this time, um, the Hulu series, the part that I did watch, uh, mentioned that the bars would tell patrons to let their friends know if they were leaving with someone they didn't know because there were so many missing men.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

That's that's a good precaution to have.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's good for anyone, but especially at that time, being that like sort of targeted community for sure. Yeah. Um, a man who spoke to the police described an encounter he had with a man that he had met at one of these bars who said his name was Brian. He invited him back to his house to swim in the pool and keep the party going. The man said it felt a little weird when he walked in the pool area and there were mannequins placed around the pool and behind the bar, kind of like a party scene, like a social setting.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, mannequins are weird in general, but that's the staging is odd.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Uh-huh. Yeah, I don't like it. No. No. I think I would have walked away, but you know, I I don't know. Uh he said he didn't trust the drink that Brian gave him, and he took it to the bathroom, poured it out, and put water in it. And they engaged in consensual sex that involved autoerotic asphyxiation. I can't remember all the details, but somehow this man left Brian's house. Like he he was alive, he left. After the interview with police, they started to connect the missing men to Herb Baumeister. Uh, the police wanted to search the property, but Herb and Julie said no. So I don't think it was just this one interview that connected them, like connected police to Herb Baumeister. I think it was sort of a series of events at the time. There was like a mention of a license plate like being connected that somebody had like seen the car, that they had seen their friend get in the car with this guy, and they noted the license plate number and stuff like that. So this is just kind of I didn't write that in my notes here, but it's a lot of a lot of different things. Um, and then this one too, in 1994, Herb and Julie's son had been out on the property with one of his friends and they found a skeleton. He told his mom about it, but she sort of brushed it off. And Julie told Herb about it when he got home and said they might need to call the police, but he said, Do not call the police. It is one of my dad's old medical school skeletons.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They just ended up on the property way out there, buried in the it's totally fine, not weird at all.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah. Well, and she said she didn't think much of it, and like she had a lot of other things to think about at the time. She kind of just let it go. He his explanation was, you know, I guess he kept everything. Which I'm like, yeah, mannequins in your yeah. I guess you keep everything. And I mean he owns a thrift store chain. So um, but yeah, so I I don't know that I would have just believed that.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

No, I probably would have wanted to go see it for myself. And like, no, this is I don't believe you.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah, yeah. Which, yeah, that skeleton disappeared.

unknown 10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

So yeah. But yeah, so once police were trying to search the property in 1996, and Herb's behavior was becoming a little weird, she became suspicious and let the police search the property. At some point, Herb left with their son out of town, and Julie was scared for her son's safety and made Herb bring him back. And I think that was like like a court order and like order of protection type thing. It wasn't just like a little, hey, you need to come with like bring our son back in the world. Yeah. You can go do whatever, but he stays and somehow Herb was able to leave again and he fled to Canada where he committed suicide at a park on Lake Huron by shooting himself in the head.

unknown 10:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

He left a note, but it didn't discuss victims or crimes. So I think that was something that was mentioned in either the Hulu series or an article that I was reading was that like if you're finding or like if you're searching a property and somebody is able to leave, like that just felt like like investigators were like, How did that happen? Like, how did this guy get to leave the country?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Considering it's his property, he's he would be considered a suspect at that point, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

They've connected all of these things to him, but yet he was somehow able to leave. And like even his wife was like, I don't know where he is. Like, how was he able to leave? Like it was just wild.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Um they dropped the ball there. Yes. As we've seen in a lot of older cases, investigators, police just kind of dropping the ball.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, and it didn't help that the victims were gay men at that time, that it just was not a priority.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, they're like, oh no, another one day.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

It's like yeah, they're still people, guys. Yes, still people. So basically, they found that Herb had been he had been leading a double life, basically. Obviously, yeah. He had been going to gay bars to pick up men when his wife and kids were out of town. He would take them back to Fox Hollow Farm and murder them, probably by strangling them, and would either burn or bury them out in the wooded areas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

As you do, especially if you have a property that big makes it I mean, obviously, his son still managed to discover a skeleton, but it does make it a lot easier to dispose of bodies. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah. So yeah. So the search of the property resulted in finding over 10,000 human remains that belong to an unknown number of victims.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Yeah, because human remains can be they could find a tooth somewhere, they could find a toe bone somewhere else, they could find stuff, but those could be from one body.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the human body has like what 206 bones? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

So it's still gonna be a large number of people. Um but yeah. Yeah. So it's not 10,000 individual bodies, basically, to try to specify, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah, bones, fragments, all kinds of yeah, uh just all over. Uh there were shotgun shells that were found around the property, remains were found in a creek on the property, and I think it was over 20 locations on the property where the bones, like bones were found. And I do remember in the like I think it's in the first episode of the Hulu series that they said, like when they were out there searching, they would have the little like flags, like um to pinball. Like construction kind of flags, the little tiny ones. Just if you see something suspicious, put a flag, and they were like, there was a sea of flags. It was just all over.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

It's horrific.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yeah, it is insane.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah, and he went by the alias Brian or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, I think it was Brian Smart.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah, that sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Now I'm thinking of because I have seen I have seen this one and uh trying to remember other details that you haven't covered here. And it's like, what else is there? Yeah, yeah. Because I think, yeah, the one that left, he messed up. Not the guy who left, but Brian by having that guy be able to leave.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

That was yeah, there's a whole other aspect of that that I didn't put in my notes, but I can probably talk about it after after this part that the Hulu I and I didn't finish that part of the Hulu series. I kind of just googled it, but uh yeah, I we can we can talk about that too. It's a little speculative, but we'll see. Okay. Okay, so only 10 victims have been identified as of today. Okay. The county is working with genetic genealogists to identify the victims, but it is a very long process. I think maybe I've seen in the last few years that's been about one a year like person that's been identified.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Um Do you know why it's taking so long? Is it just because there's so many fragments to go through?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

So it's mostly that the well, knowing the way the genetic genealogy process takes, is they have to build a family tree backwards.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

And connect it to, it's a little bit different to me, it seems a little bit different in this case than they have they know the identity of like the victim of a crime and they're trying to catch the killer, and they use genetic genealogy that way. It's the two people or like the victim is known, and it's just usually getting the DNA sort of from the perpetrator of the crime, and then they build a tree and connect it somehow. I'm not sure. It has been a while since I have looked into all this stuff. Genetic genealogy is like one of my favorite, favorite topics, but I'm not always super clear on all the details. Okay. Um, but I think in this case it's also with how recent it is, finding because like on like say like websites like Ancestry or Family Search and all the things, if the people that you're looking for for are alive, their details are hidden automatically if they are listed as a living person.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

So like I'm on Ancestry, I have however many trees, but like all of my details are hidden from anybody else looking at my tree.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Because you're still alive, and that could lead to people finding you and yada yada.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Yeah, yeah. So all of that is hidden. So all of these people that went missing in like the 90s, their family members are mostly gonna be still alive, like their grandparents maybe might not be, but like you know, a lot of living probably will be could be, yeah, yeah. Um, because they were like usually in their 20s and 30s in the 90s. So it's I think that might be making it very difficult. So they're having to rely on a lot of people, like living people, taking DNA tests and having enough like DNA to compare to the victims. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

So like I could also see the because of how the gay culture and stuff at the time was treated, if people were super incognito about it, as a lot of people tried to be, not having the full identity, and then families being like, Oh yeah, my son went missing, but no, he wasn't gay. Absolutely was, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, so there's a lot a lot that goes into that. And that is where my teeny teeny tiny connection comes into this. Oh, because a couple weeks ago I got a message from the genetic genealogist working on this case.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Oh my god, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Um, saying that she had identified me as a possible descendant of a couple from the 1700s that one of their or one of the victims that they're trying to identify has DNA matches to. And I was like, so you can help solve case, right? So, and I immediately recognized the names of the couple, like up from the 1700s. I'm like, those are my fifth great grandparents, like I know who this is.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

So you're like, yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

So, right, so she wanted to know if I had taken a DNA test so they could compare and help identify the victim, which of course I have, and I have it all on all the things, and I gave her the info, but it turns out it was not a match, but it did help rule out a whole line of people, which that specific line, that couple had, I can't remember if it was them or like their kids, but there were 13 children just in one family.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

So think of those 13 children that all got married and they all had children. And I think even one of those kids had 13 children also.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

That's not surprising for the top.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

So right, right. But I was like, okay, that ruled out a ton of people that they don't have to then spend a ton of time on trying to like to just come up at a dead end.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

And so yeah, it was even though it wasn't one of your distant, distant relatives. Right. Thankfully and unthankfully, depending on how you want to look at it. At least you did literally help rule out probably hundreds of people.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah. Yeah, which and that's where a ton of my ancestors are from, is that area in Indiana. Like, not Indianapolis, but like there's a I have a lot of family from Indiana. So I was like, that makes sense. And like when I got the message, I was like, how is this a scam? This has got to be a scam in some way. And then I was looking it up. I'm like, oh, this is legit. Like, this is the person that is listed in articles, like, you know, reaching out to me. And that was the most wild experience that I have had in a very long time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

So that's so cool though.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah. Cause yeah, crazy. That is if there was like, I mean, the dream field of me to work in would be genetic genealogy because it is just building family trees off of DNA stuff, and it's just I absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

But but alas.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah. So at least it helped in a way.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yes. In a big way. You you you took out a whole family line that they're like, all right, cool. Yeah. So we can move on to another one. Yeah. So that's yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, your little teeny tiny connection is a little less teeny tiny, I think, than you're letting on.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

But yeah, I think it's pretty teeny tiny, because I'm not, you know, it's not it helped, just not in, you know. It helped in one way and not the other.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

But yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Oh, cool. I hope they do obviously find the identity, but yeah. Okay, you actually played a part in it. That's that's just neat.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Right? Yeah. It was just kind of crazy. I was like, okay, that's I've watched all of the shows about this stuff happening and never thought that that would that I would yeah. So wow. Yeah. So I guess that's really kind of all I have as far as like the facts of the things that I know that happened. Okay, so about the speculative So yeah, the the speculative part, and I won't he was mentioned and brought up on the Hulu series, and he was the one that spoke to police saying that he got away. And there is the speculation that because in the Hulu series, whoever they were interviewing was like, I'm gonna just like text him and let him know that we're doing this like interview. And oh, because also in the Hulu series, they have the current owner of Fox Hollow Farm.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

And it's like this whole thing. So there's there's a lot um going on in that series. But they talked to the guy that talked to the police saying, Hey, I escaped, like, or I, you know, survived Herb Baumeister. And he starts talking to this woman on the phone, and he's like, Oh yeah, I lied. I was actually in a two-year relationship with him, and I only lied and made up the stuff because I wanted them to actually get the search warrant for the property. Cause he knew what was going on, apparently, that Herb was doing. So that's where the speculative part comes in, is that a lot of people, like on Reddit specifically, are like, he was absolutely a part of that then. Uh and I'm like, also, why do you wait until a Hulu documentary thing is coming out to then tell that story? Yeah. It's just weird. I'm not g I'm not gonna be like, oh, he's totally full of it, but like it's just When did the documentary come out?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Do you know? Last year, I think it was. Oh last year or this year, it's pretty recent. Yeah, I'm trying to think about when um the person I saw report on it, because I I watched uh Call Me Chris. Oh, yeah, and she had covered it as well, and she had a lot of details in it, and I'm trying to remember when hers was. It could have very well been last year, but I don't know if it was around the same time as the documentary or not.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

But yeah, and there were a lot of coming and going men. Well, not even going men, because unfortunately a lot of them died on that property. But yeah, and it was just like yeah, the buddy system happening at the bar being like, hey, tell your friends. And then I I feel like it was Brian became and it could have been from that guy talking about it, uh, but became a name that people were like, Oh yeah, that guy, and then he just kinda became known-ish. Yeah. But it's un yeah, me recalling it's unclear if it was told by that guy then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Well, yeah. Well, and that I'm that was just what I saw on the series. Cause even on like Wikipedia, it has a different name as somebody coming forward to police. So that is even like I am, and that's why I was like, I'm not gonna say the names because I don't know for sure who it was. I just know that there was an account of coming forward saying that, yeah. So, yeah, yeah, because again, I I guess the other part that I didn't include because it just it's not maybe a hundred percent, but there's also the So take it with a grain of salt, yeah. I mean, it's on Wikipedia.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

I'm gonna just read it off of the Wikipedia page right now, but um knowing that it's on Wikipedia and can be edited and changed.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Right. Well, and I think it's just they haven't officially connected anything. Um, but it's the I-70 Strangler um that happened between 1980 and 1991, that it was at least 11 young boys and adult men that were killed, and their bodies were dumped near I-70. Um, and the reason that they sort of connected him to it is because 1991 is when they bought Fox Hollow Farm, and that's when the I-70 stuff stopped happening.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Oh, the I-70 stuff stopped happening?

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, so then he bought the farm where he had 18 acres to then get rid of bodies. So, I mean, well, that's okay, that's maybe not the only reason, but yeah, that's they've connected him to it, but it's not a hundred percent. It doesn't sound like anyways.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

I mean, they've done that with a few serial killers though, where like, oh, this one did this, but he was also kind of in this area at this time, so maybe he was also this guy. But yeah. Yeah, I mean, if his businesses or anything were near I-70 by chance, then I could or if he had any sort of hub ties to I-70? Is it just the I-70s in Indianapolis? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Cause yeah, again, it was also meeting victims in popular gay bars and then luring them out and doing whatever, and then and then each had been strangled. So which was his MO. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I mean it it very well could be, but unfortunately, he is not alive. Fortunately or unfortunately, he is not alive to tell.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Unfortunately for confessions, DNA, all yada yada yada, but yeah. Fortunately gone, so he can stop doing it.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah. But oh, and that was the weirdest thing too. On the Hulu series, they have like archive footage of him, like, which I was like, what would he have even been doing? But there was like, he was like driving with his son, and they were behind like the truck that like paints the lines on the road.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

And they noticed a like raccoon that had been hit by a car and was dead in the middle of the road. And he was like talking, it was like a news like thing. Like he was talking to a camera guy about this, and he was saying how, oh well, he thought that like he's like telling his son, oh, I bet that they're just gonna drive right over it and paint right over it. And they did, and he's like, that creature didn't deserve that kind of a fate, like that was not humane, and I'm like, that was not humane to paint over? I'm like, what? Yeah, all right. But he was like in like a suit, and he was like very like, you know, hair was very nice, like just all the things, like, and it's just it's always I don't know, it's always the normal ones. Which clearly he was not normal. He had like some issues for sure. But for sure, yeah. Um and I think that was also in the Hulu series. There was the bartender that they were interviewing that remembered seeing him in the bar, and he had said that um he said that he like he was watching him and he was like, This man hates who he is.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Internalized bigotry kinda.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

And yeah, and yeah. And expressed in the worst possible way that ends in murder. Yeah. I hate those.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Just that yeah. Yeah, and there's the famous picture of him.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yep. That's the guy. Either he he either hit it real, real well, or his wife was purposely trying to be just ignorant to the situation in oblivious. Because I feel like if you're if somebody's living a double life, they're have unless they're real real good, there's gotta be some sort of telltale signs.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Well, and I think that's I mean, investigators said that they didn't think she had any idea. Oh, okay. And I mean, I have listened to a lot of different true crime things, and especially ones that deal with like double lives, and like how many people have had multiple wives and families that they somehow maintain. And I'm like, first of all, that ha that sounds exhausting and expensive.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Like, yeah, because not only are you taking care of one family, you have a whole other family to take care of, unless you're the loner of the family.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

And then traveling between, I'm just like, I don't, I don't understand how it happens, but I just I I know that there are people that do fool a lot of people. And I could assume that because she was always out of town when this would happen, yeah. And you just come back and then everything's normal, which I just don't, I don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Does she never go into like yeah, I don't know, it's it's strange.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

He seemed like, at least from different things, like he could probably just explain things away. Probably it was believed.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Because his double life, rather than the people traveling where they keep their double lives very secret and separate, his double life was happening at his house.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

So yeah. That's where I was like, anything, yeah. Anything at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

I'm glad that we're just slowly sliding back to the dark ages. But I'm glad we're regressed. That not as many people have to keep that secret. There's still absolutely people that have internalized homophobia, bigotry, and misogyny and everything that they need to work through. But that's just how they were raised.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Um we're doing like a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

I yeah, I was a little better for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

You don't have secret gay bars anymore. Right. Just have gay bars now, but yeah. Yeah. Why can't people just accept themselves? Yeah. Just be chill.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Right. I yeah. I'll never, I mean, I'm glad that I don't understand like the, you know, murderous mentality, I guess, but I like intrusive thoughts are one thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Right. Yeah. But actually going through with like the act of and planning of doing something like that is yeah, I or just the yeah, like the the need or the urge or the whatever that some of these like serial killers have.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Like, I I just don't, you know, I don't understand their brains are yeah different.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

They're just wired differently.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

And unfortunately, as we've seen time and time again, a lot of them just can mask enough to just seem like a completely normal person.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah. Having somebody who in my life that I'd spent a lot of time with that did end up murdering his wife and her sister in cold blood in their house. Um, we never would have suspected it. And it was a crazy ordeal when it happened and took everyone by surprise.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Yeah. And yeah, the that's the that's the scariest, but you never know.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

I smile at awkwardness. Don't worry. Right. I'm not it was uh horrific. And obviously, all murders are like in to a some extent horrific. There's obviously cases of self-defense of oh my god, I'm going to die. I need to get this to stop. But and yeah, I'm glad we don't have that mentality. Yeah. It's nice to not understand. But I mean, it would I have also seen like psychologists and stuff who have gone through and kind of worked really hard to put reason to why they do the things they do. There's a whole, yeah, a whole spectrum of that. Oh, yeah. It's really interesting to look at and get into. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Those are some of my favorite podcasts. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

If you want to learn the human psyche and just see how far it can go sometimes, it would definitely be an interesting watch or read like articles on it, episodes. But yeah, it's some wild stuff.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah, because that was, I mean, the main thing. Yeah. Normal childhood. I'm like, okay, so what made you this way?

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah, normal child, and then just had what seems like a psychotic break.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

From possibly stress.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

And then apparently just never recovered past that, I guess. At least from what that sounds like. He's dead now.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yep. I was in kindergarten when he died. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Oh, geez. His wife and son and stuff are or did they have they have multiple kids, didn't they?

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah, they had three. I think it was a son and two daughters. Oh, okay. Yeah. I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

They're all fine, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

As far as I know, yeah. I didn't look into them because I was like, they've been through a lot.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

So just leave them alone.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

They don't want to talk about their own.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

His wife did give interviews like back back when it was happening, though, which is totally fair because it took her by surprise too. So, you know, yeah, but Yeah, that's a wild one. Yeah. And the guy that owns the house now seems to be quite quite proud of it. Not like not like in the sense of he's like opening his house up for tours or anything, but I think he has allowed like ghost hunting people to go there and stuff, which fair, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

But oh yeah, he might just rent it out to specific parties that are like, hey, we want to do this here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

How much do you want, or is it open for kind of I don't even know that he I think it's like it's fun for him, is what it seems like. He seems very sort of into like it's not like he's gonna be like making money or anything off of the thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

I know some people do end up doing that.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Because I think that was also in the Hulu series. He said that he was like he had found that like there was a faucet missing in one of the bathrooms, and he was like looking it up and like found somebody selling that faucet because it was from her Baumeister's house.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

So like I don't think he's on that level of like, you know, he I think he was kind of being like, that's a little odd to be collecting things from serial killers and selling it, but that's what people do. A lot of people do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

They do collect things, they collect yeah, yeah, things from torture devices to items from serial killers or their residences or anything, yeah. Yeah, there's some interesting collections out there, but then that's also how you get haunted museums a lot of the time, too. Yeah, because they just have items from some really dark places. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

But yeah, no, he seems pretty into it. Yeah, his name is Robert Graves, and he said that if you say right, he said if you say it just right, it's like Robin Graves. And I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

So look, at least he's owning it. He's he's all about it.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Yeah, he's like, Yeah, we swim in the pool, and I'm like, okay. Yeah. I just yeah. I mean, most people like I think it was even, I think it was John Wayne Gacy's house, like they tore it down like as soon as they had recovered. Um and yeah, and like the same thing with like with OJ Simpson, like his uh his house that he had, they tore that down. Like a lot of houses like that, they're just like, nope, we're not gonna create like a frenzy and a place that people want to come and look at, especially that's fair, yeah. If it could be, you know, lived in again. Like they don't want people to, yeah. So I was kind of surprised, but it's a really nice house.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

That's a huge property, too. Yeah, it it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

It shows, I mean, yeah, the Hulu series, it it definitely shows inside at the outside, like it's it's gorgeous. I would I would love a place like that.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

So all the ghost hunting you could do there.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Right. I go out, I'm gonna camp in the woods tonight, see if I can hear any ghosts or anything, and then I would run inside like a little baby. So twig snaps.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Like, I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

I changed my mind. I do that outside here. I let the dog out and I hear anything that sounds a little different. I'm like, nah, I'm done. I'm out. Which to be fair, there was a manhunt not that long ago on the back. That is for property, so I'm not that crazy for that. No, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Oh boy. With that, right? Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That is that is quite the case. I had heard that one, and that is it is a wild one for sure, because yeah, that double life led to a lot of deaths.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah. Yeah. And I highly recommend Last Podcasts episodes about it, the two-part series. I love well, obviously, I love Last Podcast on the left, so yeah, they always do very good. But I didn't, yeah. I can't say that I recommend the Hulu series because I didn't watch the whole thing. It definitely seemed to get a little sensational, but you know, whatever. But I think just for the little bit that I did watch, I think uh it's at least worth watching. I wouldn't say that it's yeah, I think it's worth watching.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

So you get worth watching, maybe take some of it, but just like a grain of sulfur fantastic views of the city.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

And I mean, yeah, because they have like the investigators, they have the medical examiner, they have the former prosecutor, like they have the people involved with it. And I believe what they say. It's just kind of when you start to get into so some of the other hearsay kind of thing. That's where I'm kind of like, well, I I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

All right. That was I was gonna say that was fun. That was it was very informational. Yeah. Thank you for that one. Yeah, yeah, that is also just a neat name for a farm, but yeah, horrific, horrific farm.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yeah. And if you're in Indiana and you have a missing family member, take a DNA test.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah, there you go. And yeah, um, I'll also point out if you're at a bar and you're with friends, use the buddy system before you leave somewhere with anybody.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Right. Also, yeah, in general, don't leave your friends behind. Like, don't like make sure you know, I mean, share your locations. It's not difficult. Like, it's I have done that for friends. I uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Like, hey, I'm going with this person. If you don't hear back from me at X time, hit me up. If I don't respond, call the police.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's it's just a safety thing for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Yeah, take the extra s safety steps. Things are still the world is still the world. Yeah. As even though things some things have gotten safer, some stuff is still sketchy.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

So people are still getting like drugged in bars, so you know, yeah. I have seen my fair share, and it's not yeah, I I dislike a lot of people for things. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

That's fair. Take care of yourselves, be safe.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Have fun, but be safe.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah, have fun, absolutely. But be safe.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Right?

SPEAKER_00 42:39

We will catch you in the next one. Yep. Bye.