Heart the Mission Podcast

Episode 5 - Adam Spurlock: Faith, Responsibility, and the Day Everything Changed

• Josh Bradley • Season 1 • Episode 5

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0:00 | 1:14:08

Adam didn’t get a pause button.

In this episode, Adam shares what it looked like to lose his father and keep leading anyway. While his family grieved, he stepped into a new reality overnight, carrying the weight of pastoral leadership and the responsibility of becoming the patriarch in his family.

This is a conversation for the leader who is still showing up while life is falling apart.

In this episode, we talk about:
• What grief does to your focus, energy, and leadership decisions
• How to lead a church when you feel emotionally empty
• What changes when you become “the man of the family” overnight
• The difference between performing strength and living with steady conviction
• What it means to persevere without going numb

If you’re carrying weight you didn’t ask for, this one will help you name it and lead with a steadier footing.

Subscribe for more conversations that help leaders see what’s blocking their mission and move forward with confidence and courage.

Want coaching or a mission reset for your church or team? Visit Heart the Mission at heartthemission.com.


SPEAKER_01

I'm stoked for you to be here, dude.

SPEAKER_00

Me too. Very happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01

Adam Spurlock. In the flesh.

SPEAKER_00

That's right.

SPEAKER_01

In the flesh, man. Listen. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I just want to make it clear. Your voice is like a little different.

SPEAKER_00

It is a little different. But nobody knows.

SPEAKER_01

No, our Daniel's over here, and he's going to make you sound brilliant. I can't wait to hear it. I can't wait to hear it. You're going to sound so good. Here's the problem. I sound this terrible all the time, is just what I'm bringing to the table. But no, man, I'm I'm just really grateful for you to drive up here to spend the day talking a little bit about life and ministry. You know, I um I started Heart the Mission uh this year with the hope to be able to, through a process of clarity, inspire confidence, and courage in pastors. I find that a lot of pastors, Christian leaders, um maybe don't always feel like they're part of a really good community. They always feel like known.

SPEAKER_00

It can be lonely.

SPEAKER_01

And they can be lonely. And so um I I want to tell stories of guys who um have made it through and are continuing to make it through, and people I love and respect, dude. And you're you're somebody I love and respect.

SPEAKER_00

I'm on the list.

SPEAKER_01

You're on the list, you're on the list, man. I'm I'm so grateful for you to be here. And and just for people to know, you're the lead pastor at Restoration Community Church in Hannahan, South Carolina. If you don't know where Hannahan is, right outside of Charleston. That's right. Outside Charleston. And now it's probably just easier to say.

SPEAKER_00

I tell everybody Charleston.

SPEAKER_01

Just easier to say, it's easier to say Charleston. That's right. Um, but yeah, man, uh that that is it. You're married to your beautiful wife, Katie.

SPEAKER_00

25 years, probably.

SPEAKER_01

25 years and then three kids Braden, Emery, and Titus.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. Titus turns 13 this week, made the B team of basketball. Yeah, man. Life is rolling. Happy times. Life is rolling. That's right.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. Man, I I love I love that. I love I love your story, and I um I love so much about your leadership, man. I have um man, there have been like moments in my life, I don't know, you probably don't know this. I probably shouldn't say this, but but there have been moments in my life, like especially since we've met, that I've often thought, man, if Adam had a place on his team, I would totally move to Hannahan, South Carolina. We should talk. Listen, listen, you missed me by just a few months. Like I'm vulnerable at this phase of my life. But I've I have, I've I've said, man, could you imagine? Um that and and you know what? I've got other leaders that I respect, and they say the same thing, man. I don't know if I can work for every pastor, but I can work for that guy. And uh, dude, you're one of those people, man. So so man, I think I'm glad you're here, and I'm excited. I'm excited for for you to talk through uh kind of what it has looked like for God to carve you into this man, pastor, leader, husband and father that you are now. Not that we have it all together, but man, absolutely not. He's uh he's sure been at work uh in your story. So he has. You grew up here, South Carolina?

SPEAKER_00

I grew up in South Carolina, man. So grew up in Charleston, right outside of Charleston, a place called Anahan. And uh man, I I had a great childhood, Josh. I really did, man. Uh mom and dad um were so loving, so kind, but they didn't know Jesus until I was 10. Uh and so for the longest time it was just me and uh my sister, and I had one little brother, right? And um then, you know, the enemy attacked our family. Uh and mom and dad went through some tough times. And um You were 10. I was 10 at the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know what? Tell me, let's talk a little bit about that. I mean, tell me what what was going on?

SPEAKER_00

Man, so I remember we had just had uh a new little little brother, right? And so that this won't surprise you, but when I was 10 years old, I like to be the center of attention, right? I like to get people's attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so uh here's a new little baby um who's getting some of that attention. Mom and dad are going through a rough time. And uh, you know, we got to a point where uh I remember my sister and I, and this is other people's story as well, right? Not just my story, but my sister and I were sitting on the couch. I remember my mom and dad like standing over us saying, All right, you pick which one you want to go live with when we make this thing official, kind of the divorce thing. Just one of those moments in in life. It's like, uh, man, this is surreal. We're we're choosing a parent right here. Um, you know, and they were hurting, they were going through things. But the beautiful part of that is um kind of going into how God carved me out to where I am today, is there was a missionary couple that my mom worked with at the hospital, and man, she just got her hands dirty with my mom and just showed her Jesus. And this this nurse at the hospital got her husband to come alongside my dad and just show my dad what maybe gospel forgiveness would look like. And uh at 10 years old, I got to see the heart of God. Um even in new believers of my mom and dad. Like I got to see my dad like offer this incredible amount of forgiveness and grace. My dad's a big he's a big dude. You know he's like 6'4, 230, you know, football player guy. He was I got to see the heart of the father when I was 10. That forever changed me. Forever changed me. Forever changed my family too. There was three of us then, there's eleven of us now, as far as brothers and sisters go. Um, but that's that's kind of the 10-year-old. Yeah, they reconnected and then they reconciled things. We're we're good after that. So yeah, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01

Man, I'm just sitting there putting trying to put myself in the place of a 10-year-old trying to decide which parent to go with.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What was that like?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh, man. I remember sitting there with my sister, right? Um, who's like two years younger than me at the time. I guess she was about eight, eight, maybe seven. And um, like just looking at mom and dad, like looking up in their eyes, and like, oh no, like I felt like my heart was beating out of my chest, and like I who do I pick? Um, you know, and inside, just to be honest, you're thinking, Well, I'm a I'm a guy, I'm a boy, I gotta go with dad, you know, and I don't want to leave mom alone. Like I just going through all that stuff as far as man, whatever I say next, somebody's not gonna be okay. Like I remember that feeling. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No 10-year-old should have to feel that way.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Um, it it was a it was a moment. Talking about it, what, 37 years later? Yeah, you still can feel it. Yeah, I can still feel that moment, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So, so man, did did obviously you you didn't have to end up choosing? No, we did not. Your family, as you said, kind of experienced grace and forgiveness, your mom, somebody at work. Like, thank thank God for that.

SPEAKER_00

Amen.

SPEAKER_01

Man, but tell me, like, how how did how what was that process like of them being reconciled, coming to faith?

SPEAKER_00

So before that, man, great question. So before that, we were um, I was raised Catholic, uh, and so we would go to Mass, and my in my head, it was, you know, a couple times a year, maybe it was more often, certainly on Easter and Christmas, right? But it was just something we did on Sundays. Uh, and I remember this, Josh. Um, the service in the Catholic Church was 57 minutes. I could still get home to see wrestling start at 12. That was a beautiful thing in my childhood.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

But uh, I remember going to uh Protestant church and gospel center church. It wasn't 57 minutes, right? It wasn't 57 minutes. I remember being in middle school. It was many, many more minutes. Many more minutes, right? And one more verse of just as I am. Anyway. Uh, but man, it was it was real and it was uh beautiful to see. I literally got to see, because of my age, my younger brothers and sisters didn't get to see this. I got to see a 180 in my mom and dad. Lifestyle, tone, words, affection, uh viewpoints, like true, like uh worldviews. I got to see it change, and that impacted me, right? It impacted me. And so I remember growing up in high school, middle school, going to where we'll end up going eventually, is uh I'm a performance guy, right? And so for me, I remember the nuns used to like swat your hands if you didn't do the right thing, right? Well, I didn't want to get swatted in the Protestant church either, right? And so like I just learned all the rules, and I just remember in middle school, high school trying to do all the rules and um feel like I did them pretty well, to be honest with you. And if you didn't do them as good as I did, then I looked at myself as well, I won. You lost. Yeah, yeah, you won.

SPEAKER_01

You won. So you're who who brought the gospel to the family? This this friend of your mom's?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yes, that's exactly right. Her name is Nancy. Um the husband's name was Kevin, and man, they just literally got their hands messy with my mom and dad and showed them Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

So a big part of that was just trying to put their marriage, their family.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, all the above, right? All the above.

SPEAKER_01

Do you remember like the specific like moment or like period of time to where they like repented and gave their life to Jesus? Was that like on display?

SPEAKER_00

So, as a 10-year-old, on display my house, great question. As a 10-year-old, what I do remember is I remember seeing them both get baptized at a little church on Remount Road, Remount Baptist Church. I remember that in my head. Like, I'm telling you, man, I can still see my dad going underneath, still see my mom going underneath. So, in that aspect, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But as a moment in the house, I just know things changed.

SPEAKER_01

Things changed.

SPEAKER_00

Just things changed immediately. Like it was talking about resolve. Um, I mean, we were we were in service. You know how it was if you're raised Baptist, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Tuesday night visitation, Wednesday night, like it all the things, man. If you really loved me this, and we wanted to prove that we did, so we went.

SPEAKER_01

Uh it was you didn't want to upset him, right? Because it was our job to keep this almighty omniscient God happy happy.

SPEAKER_00

That's correct. That's correct. Yeah, his mood depends on me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh boy, I could go on and on the city.

SPEAKER_01

Man, so yeah, so here you you are there were there were how many of you at that point when you were 10? There were three of you?

SPEAKER_00

When I was 10, there was three of us. Three of us.

SPEAKER_01

Were you the oldest?

SPEAKER_00

I was the oldest, yes, sir. And so by the time I left high school, I think there was seven or eight of us. I can't remember, but it was a lot of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And the parent, you're they just kept having kids. They just kept having kids after I left.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think when we stopped, they stopped. So I was just kidding.

SPEAKER_01

They really, really made up.

SPEAKER_00

They did. They did. It was a beautiful reconciliation.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, man. So um, so okay, walk walk me through like what was that like for you? I mean, was that those moments as a child? Did you come to faith in Jesus during those years, Adam? Is that when God used that for you?

SPEAKER_00

It was, man. So I tell everybody my testimony there, right? So I remember the little Baptist church on Ray Mount Road, mom and dad got baptized. I just remember one Sunday morning, uh, walk into fourth grade Sunday school, and this little lady named Sue Ross, who's still living today. Uh Sue Ross. Sue Ross, I'll never forget her. And she, it was probably just any random Sunday to her, right? Like it was just another Sunday. She was teaching fourth grade Sunday school class. I walk in and she just goes through the ABCs of Jesus. And I'm telling you, Josh, like it was a surreal moment. I had seen the crucifix on walls, being Catholic for years. I had gone to confession, you know. Something opened my eyes, and I was like, oh, that's why he died on the cross. I'm a sinner. Ah, I get it. Like it just all came to light. Like, so admit you're a sinner, believe that Christ died for you, commit to following him, ABCs. I'm like, I'm in. Like, I want to follow that guy.

SPEAKER_01

Like, and I just remember that was me at 10 years old getting saved by God's grace, moving forward in baptism, um, and that kind of paved the way to they not have like a better way to reach people like we do now, you know?

SPEAKER_00

If only. If only. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Here's a cool thing, man.

SPEAKER_01

So, do you remember that being like an overly emotional moment for you, or was it sort of just you making a decision for Jesus? Like, was it you like really crying and that kind of thing? What was that like?

SPEAKER_00

I would say at that point, 10 years old, it was just excitement.

SPEAKER_01

It was excitement.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I realized finally what this was all about, and it made perfect sense. And I know I wanted to follow this dude, like I wanted to follow Jesus, you know.

SPEAKER_01

That's that's why I asked the question because that's how it felt. Yes, it felt like, man, it wasn't like okay, I'm I'm broken underneath the burden of all my 10-year-old sin. Like, there was that, but at the same time, like, man, I could just feel like okay, I'm making this decision. That's just a great way to come to Jesus. Like front row of watching your parents do the same thing. Correct. And now here you are.

SPEAKER_00

It was crazy. It was a crazy time. It was a beautiful time, though. Yeah. I wish my other brothers and sisters could have experienced that with me, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Hey guys, we wanted to break in and take a moment to tell you a little bit about Heart the Mission and what we do. We are dedicated to helping pastors and Christian leaders find clarity that will inspire confidence and courage. And if you're in a situation to where you believe that God has called you maybe to more, more clarity for your future, more clarity for your mission, more clarity for your staff, we would love for you to reach out to us at heartthemission.com to find out more about what it might look like for us to partner together through a process of clarity for you, for your church, or your organization. Check us out, heartthemission.com. So you continue to grow up in that family. That's right. Tell me, tell me a little bit about those two years and moving through high school and college.

SPEAKER_00

You know, they were it was it was really just I'm very fortunate, Josh, to be uh to have the the childhood that I had. Lots of love, lots of busyness you could imagine with all those brothers and sisters, their practices, the coming to go, and all the things. Mom and dad are hardworking people. Um it it was I was blessed. I was blessed to do that. As an older child, you get a little bit of responsibility, um, which is a benefit. Um dad was a was a I'd say a perfect mix of and you'll understand this, of law and love. But you didn't want to get out of line, right? And so again, I'm thankful for that. That makes me who I am today. Uh, but that's what it was like growing up after they gave their lives to the Lord, this beautiful picture of law and love from dad, and and just just a family where we were super tight, super close, and it was all done by love. I'm very blessed by that.

SPEAKER_01

All right, so when did you when did you meet Katie?

SPEAKER_00

Oh boy, yeah. All right, so I met Katie, uh my little sister, who's uh three years younger than me, right? Uh I walk in from school, I think I'm in the eighth grade at the time. I walk into the kitchen, and my sister has a friend there, and that friend's name is Katie. I think she's in sixth grade at the time, and I'm like, she's cute. And uh from like the next four years, I just pestered the living snot out of that girl, you know. You know how it goes. Somehow it worked, it won. And uh so she was my gosh, I met her again sixth grade. We uh dated on and off through high school. She she wanted a few breaks along the way. You you know how that goes. Yeah, she wanted to date some you know other people, only other people at times.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, but uh gave me time to get in the gym. That's right, that's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_00

I keep my act up, got her. But I sealed the deal back in 2000. Yeah, good for you. Absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_01

That's so good.

SPEAKER_00

So been together ever since.

SPEAKER_01

So um tell me, did were you where were the call to ministry com for you? Was it yeah, did you did you move right towards that through high school? Was it through college? Like, tell me about those years.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, uh, it was not. So I went to college to be a high school football coach and a PE teacher, and I wasn't smart enough to stay in the education program, so I had to go to business school. And uh so I ended up graduating with a 2.0.

SPEAKER_01

We don't want this guy teaching anybody. Correct.

SPEAKER_00

That's essentially how it went. Uh, but no, uh ministry came years later. Uh in college, I'm at I majored in business, um, went into business right away.

SPEAKER_01

Um what'd you do?

SPEAKER_00

So I I worked uh in sales, uh primarily uh for FedEx. So I was uh the sales rep for FedEx and greatest job in the world, Josh. I literally got paid to take people to lunch or dinner or a show or a baseball game and be like, hey, use us instead of the brown guys. Like that was my job, the greatest job in the whole entire world.

SPEAKER_01

And you you did great at it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was it was very good to us. Yeah, it was it was it was great.

SPEAKER_01

So so here you are. You you and Katie had gotten married in 2000. That's right.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And um, when did you when did you go to work for FedEx?

SPEAKER_00

So I went to work for FedEx. Uh I was working for FedEx in college. I did take a detour and I came back around 2006 or so uh with the sales gig and did that for a long time. Katie and I were serving our local church. Now we've always been in a local church, love local church. We were serving as student leaders. Um one used to ask about the call to ministry.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I knew something was going on in my heart around the age of 31, 32. Some guys were affirming that. Like you were a little bit older. I was, yeah. And happy as can be not being in ministry. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like vocationally. Yeah, serving local church, doing it. Yeah, absolutely. Loved it, right? But I knew something was going on inside of me. Katie could sense it. Other guys in my life could sense it. Um so we were like, okay, we'll put our yes on the table, right? Um, and it was, was it crew? Was it going to Campus Crew Saved for Christ, or one of the other college? No, it wasn't that. That got that door got shut. Was it being a youth pastor? No, that door got shut. Never in a million years have I ever thought that I would be sitting at Northwood Baptist Church on a Wednesday night where the youth pastor says, Hey, uh, we have a special guest speaker tonight. He's a church planner from Kane Bay. You guys kind of have the night off, just sit there and love on the kids. Like, great. So I sit down there, and this guy by the name of Charlie Swain gives his testimony. Yes, yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_01

Click that link over there, right? Is that how you do that? You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well done. He gave his testimony, man. I'm just telling you, the rest of the room could have not been there. That moment was providential by God for Charlie to speak testimony. For Katie and I, that was an emotional time. It was like, oh crap, this is what God's calling us to do. Like we're cried or we're sitting there.

SPEAKER_01

So you y'all are sitting there together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we're sitting there together, and we're like, we're supposed to plant a church and hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01

Tell me some things you remember him talking about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I just remember him saying things like a burden for the local community right there in Brooklyn County where he was playing. And I was like, Yeah, I'm burdened for my people in my hometown, right? Like uh I remember him talking about what would it look like to gather believers and then to deploy them on missions so that every man, woman, and child has multiple opportunities to hear the gospel. I was like, Yes, he just put words to what's going on in my heart and my head. And I just remember like his words were what was in my heart that didn't have words for because I'm not a ministry guy. I wasn't in the world of church planning or vocational ministry. And like he and I stood up and we went right to him after he was finished, like we were balling our eyes like, we're supposed to clean a church too. Oh, Charlie, he's probably like, what is this? Who are these crazy? Yes, yes. Why are they crying?

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_00

But it was it was a moment that's when I got called into ministry. I guess I was like 32 at the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you go from sales rep, yeah, successful sales rep guy, things are moving with your family. You and Katie are building a successful family, and now you're thinking about like moving towards ministry, yeah. And what in the world, bro?

SPEAKER_00

Josh, I tell you, so number one, my mom who loves Jesus. Sure. Great mom. One of her first questions, if not the first question, was how are you gonna feed your family, Adam? Like great question. It really is a good question. And then, like a couple days later, one of the boss men at FedEx came from Memphis to Charleston and opened up these spreadsheets for me. He was like, Hey, I want you to reconsider what you're about to do. Nonprofit givings down year over year. Like he had all these spreadsheets going on. He was trying to get me to stay. And like in his mind, because he's a little older, he's just trying to prevent me from doing something stupid, just being helpful. Right, right. But that was kind of my introduction. Okay, all right, Lord, you called me to do this. Mama is a little worried. I got FedEx guys a little worried. Yeah, how am I gonna feed my family? Uh, it was a beautiful, beautiful time in our lives where we got to see God's faithfulness and all of that, man. It was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

So, so how long of a period of time between here you are sitting at this Northwood Baptist church on a Wednesday night until you gotta make a decision.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so very shortly after that, I went to my pastor at the time, uh, who has since retired from Northwood Baptist. Um, and I really thought like I was gonna share this burden with him, and he'd be like, I think that's a terrible idea. Uh but I but I you know I I shared the burden with him, and I was like, hey, we're just gonna exit quietly. Because again, I didn't know how this worked. I didn't want to cause any problems at Northwoods because we love them dearly. And he's like, No, no, no, you're gonna stay here and we're gonna equip you for a year and we're gonna send you some people and we're gonna send you out with some money. I was like, what? And it was like just revolutionary to me. Like, I didn't think this man of God would like say, Yeah, you can take some people, you can build up a little small group. It was awesome. Like it was just affirming that the Lord was in this. So it was a couple months, and then I gosh, that's probably 2011. Uh building up small group, um, 2012, we're in the planning year. I tell my bosses at FedEx I'm leaving. Um my gosh. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What did they say?

SPEAKER_00

Um, don't go. They they actually begged, not beg, they encouraged me to stick around a little longer. Um, I do think they were trying to get me to stay forever and and kind of do the pastor thing on the side while working full time.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

It does. And looking back, maybe I should have done it a little bit longer. But again, man, God was just so faithful and all that. Uh, I will say at that time, I told FedEx goodbye. Um, and we had a surprise third child who we were not expecting. How about that? Yeah, that was great. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Insurance is going away, scholars going away. You're like, I'm losing it all.

SPEAKER_00

What are we doing here? Yeah, yeah. That was a a beautiful time of chaos. Oh my god, man. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01

You know, as it's interesting, you talk about your sending church pastor. Yeah. Um, I love I love stories like that. My story was like that. So it felt like um for probably six months, I had like went behind his back exploring this idea. I wasn't how do I say this? I don't know that I was trying to keep it from him, but I also didn't want him to find out before I knew that this was what I was going to do. Because I in my mind, I had heard so many terrible stories about guy, you know, during those years, a guy would tell his pastor he's gonna plant a church two weeks or less, and he's gone. Like it was it was highly compatible. I mean, now there's much more like uh momentum around sending out church planters, thank God. And um, but for me, that was all I knew. It was like I'm cashing in my job, I'm cashing in my life, I'm gonna lose everything. Um, and I I'll never forget setting the meeting. It was January the 11th, 2010.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I had never set a meeting with him before ever. It was the first time I had called his office and or his his uh his like administrative assistant. So would you put me on his calendar? So when I walked into his office that day, he was like, What are you doing? Like, why would you set a meeting? You walk in my office every other day out of 400 You walk in my office every other day. This day you need a meeting, and he could read me. He's like, Bro, you need to you need to sit down. And he's like, Are you okay? And I just immediately kind of got emotional. I was like, I'm I'm really scared. I love that, I love that honesty. I'm really scared. He's like, Why are you? He said, You're scared of me. I was like, Yes. So I did this horribly. I wish I I wish I could go back like six months in that and started the conversation over again. He did the same thing. Yeah, you know, we were at a larger church. He walks me down to human resources, which it was part of our process. I know that some people will laugh and like, oh, your church had human resources, but we did. And he goes, Hey, Josh is gonna be starting a new church, and whatever he needs, we're gonna give him and we're gonna pay his insurance and we'll figure out how to pay him for a while. And oh yeah, if he doesn't, if he doesn't show up for work for a long time, it's fine. He's gonna be working planting a new church. It's exactly what is amazing. And I'm over here going, is this real? Because I went from I went from the same day thinking I'm gonna get fired, which was it was two days after Renee's birthday. Oh, and I and she's like, Why are you doing this to me? And I was like, I don't really know. It feels like the movies in it though. And sure enough, man, that's that's how he responded. So when you tell that story, like that sticks close to my heart, man. Just faithful pastors who feel like God's put me in this person's life to equip them, to send them, invest in you. And man, what kind of impact did that have?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. Oh, it was so affirming, right? Because I mean, listen, uh, we were volunteers, like we were just leaders, right, at the local church to go to, you know, you know how it is when you're the pastor, right? We went to the pastor, right? There was this like uh fear of like, okay, he's gonna say this is a student's idea in the whole world, or there's this fear of you're not gonna like disrupt anything going on here at Northwood Baptist, are you? And it was nothing like that. It was like this overwhelming grace and overwhelming support. And we walked out of there being like, this is it, like this is the Lord, the Lord is in this. Yeah. Um, now it didn't, it's not all roses from there, right? But in that moment, in that moment, it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

Here's what I do want to ask about though. It's interesting to me because we don't always hear like the perspective of the wife. And I man, as you're telling this story, it sounds like you guys are in lockstep together, like with these experiences. Like, what was that like?

SPEAKER_00

So, man, Josh, and Kate and I have talked about this before. At that time of our life, we were in lockstep. I mean, it was exciting, it was like we were super passionate about the mission of God. Uh, Katie always has been on a global level. Um, and that time of our life, it was extremely uh, we were we're the oneness there as far as like what is God calling us to? How are we gonna do this? It was it was a great time in our marriage, great time in our life. Um, what I'm forever grateful for. But she was right there with me the whole time.

SPEAKER_01

How was God speaking to her in these days?

SPEAKER_00

And it's a great question. I would say the same way he was speaking to me, right? And that is um, again, it goes to the value of biblical community. Uh the older ladies in her life were affirming what they were seeing God doing in her, and me, and us. Um, so it was other people. God would give her just scripture after scripture as she's spending time in the word. So I would just answer your question succinctly through other people and through his word. Uh, and you've met Kitty before, but she's a go-getter, man. She's a woman of faith. She ain't scared of the thing.

SPEAKER_01

You guys are like a quintessential power couple, right?

SPEAKER_00

She she is she is the power. I'm just trying to keep up, man. But uh, she ain't scared of much. Uh so it was it was a beautiful time for us.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man, that's so here you are. You spend a year at Northwood.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01

They're investing in you. What kind of things were you doing?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and so really he was uh she challenged me in a good way. Pastor Stunny did and basically said, Hey, uh, if you can't start a small group, you can't start a church kind of deal, right? Uh and so we built a little small group up from nothing. So for a year we just kind of built a what you and I might call a Sunday school class, right? But it was a small group. Um, I'm building that up. I'm fundraising. I'm going to seminary now as a 30-something year old dude who barely's passed undergrad, uh, working a full-time gig, just had a surprise baby, like all the things, right? Um, but it was a great opportunity, it was a great season of just seeing what God was doing. But it was busy, man. It was a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Tell me about your sin in church pastor. Tell me a little bit more about him.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so man, I wish everybody could have a Pastor Sonny in their life. One thing I learned from Sonny is he was always very direct. I would say he's very loving, very gracious, but always very direct. Uh, and really kind of taught me the value of speaking directly to people, right? I would say in my brokenness, I'm more prone not to be a peacemaker, but to be a peacekeeper, right? So I got to see what it looks like to be a peacemaker, but to be a strong leader in Pastor Sonny. So that's one of the things he was like. And that man never shied away from the truth, which I appreciated. Um, I mean, bold truth in the pulpit, off the pulpit, he was who he was. And it was a good, it was a good example for me to learn from. Very grateful for him.

SPEAKER_01

He's kind of legendary.

SPEAKER_00

He is legendary, 100%. He is, he is. Um, known for kind of revital, revitalizing churches, taking churches that were kind of plateaued and bringing them up. But man, the man loved Jesus, loved his wife, loved his wife. I got to see that firsthand, and uh, and just loved the local bride of of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

You know, there's something really um man biblical about taking your life and giving it away. Yeah, investing, investing it into younger leaders. He did. Yeah, that's that man. I I I love that. So all right, get give me a little bit more about the time between all right, they're investing in you. Yeah, you got about a year, you're raising money. Yep, you started this small group, and God has like you've dialed this area in of the people that you care about.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. And so that was that was one thing that was crystal clear from the beginning, Josh. Like I tell everybody I remember standing on shortstop, coaching my little five-year-old son at the time, uh, in Hannah Han, the same ball fields I grew up on playing. And I remember looking around the ball fields and just seeing people I went to high school with uh back in the day, people I live next to currently, my people in Hannahan, and I just remember seeing the brokenness behind the smiles, right? Can't describe it other than it was just a moment where I was like, man, this this area needs some gospel light, man. Uh, and so that burden was on me, and I knew 29410, 29410, that Hannah Han area, like that was my assignment. Not saying I'm the only one being assigned to it, but I knew that was my assignment. And to this day, that is my assignment, in addition to sending guys out to other zip codes and even my own zip code. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm as of today called to be in 29410, making sure every man, woman, and child has multiple opportunities to hear and respond to the gospel.

SPEAKER_01

And the level of clarity that that the Lord gave you in that um it's it's one thing to take a leap of faith in life, it's another thing to do so with clarity from God's spirit right right uh underneath all of that. And that's man, that's really, really powerful. So hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00

Hand a hand, that's right, man.

SPEAKER_01

That was the target.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's the target. That's the mission, that's where we're headed, that's where we are. Um, and until the Lord changes that assignment, man, that is one thing I will not bend on. Still there. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01

Still there, still, still preaching almost every Sunday. Yeah, almost, yeah, almost every Sunday.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man. So so let's let's talk about. I mean, it's been that's been 13 years old.

SPEAKER_00

13 years ago, yep. Yep, it's been a beautiful ride. Uh I don't know if you know the story, but we were at hand to hand elementary school. Um that's where you started. That's where we started, right? That's where we started elementary school.

SPEAKER_01

What is it called? Is it were you in a cafetorium? Somebody else.

SPEAKER_00

Basically like a cafetorium, right? With a little uh divider wall. It's a thing. You take that wall out, it's a cafeteria. Yeah. Uh it was a great uh at the same time, man. I remember being at a conference in Orlando, and uh, I'm like a rookie pastor, it's probably my first year there. Go to this conference in Orlando, shooting the breeze with the guy in the elevator. He's like, man, we've been in the elementary school for seven years and we love it. Katie and I walked off the elevator. I was like, we ain't staying in the elementary school for seven years. Eight years later, we finally got out of the elementary school and God gave us a place uh there in hand of hand to call our own. But man, the elementary school, it it solidified the DNA of our group of believers called restoration, just that scrappiness of setting up, tearing down all the things, man.

SPEAKER_01

So when you when you started, when you left out of Northwood, they sent you out. They sent you out with a group.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they did, yep.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and you were preparing, went through the process, connected to our friends at the state level, South Carolina Baptist Convention to start to help start that church. That's right. And tell me, tell me those early days, like what were you doing as a leader and pastor to kind of build that core team?

SPEAKER_00

Man, that is such a great question. So to build the core team, uh, spending time with with the men on the on that team. Katie was spending time with the women on that team. Uh, we were having, you know, what we used to call uh what was a core team meetings, right? So you're just sharing DNA, you're sharing vision, um, trying to re trying to create some passion for them to own, some ministry for them to own, um, getting them to love their neighbors like literal neighbors. Uh that's kind of what it was like. I just remember it was very busy. It was just very busy, a lot of like rapid days, but it was beautiful at the same time, if I could articulate that well. Beautiful, busy days.

SPEAKER_01

So, what was the mantra? Like you're you're starting this new church. Yeah, it wasn't just just to have another building, people get into it. Yeah, what was like what was that statement? What was that idea that you were rallying people around?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was stolen language, right? From another uh training that I was at being a part of. It was just deploying missionaries and sending them out, all right? Like building up missionaries, deploying them out on mission Monday through Saturday. That's kind of what I say all the time, even 13 years later. I want you to be on mission Monday through Saturday. When you leave these doors, you're an ambassador of Jesus. You're you're you are Jesus' PR like team, right? You're out there casting the vision. That's what it was. That's was that's what was different in Hannah Han back then, is there was great churches. We pray for those churches, we still pray for those churches. I would say what's different about restoration is we are intentional about deploying missionaries into the mission field Monday through Saturday, where they live, learn, work, and play.

SPEAKER_01

So you are rallying a church, building a church, right? And and again, we're talking about these uh all these ideas like they're fresh and new, but it's very much of a New Testament reality. 100%, right? Like you're doing what was already done, like you're sending you this is Acts 13, right? This is like just this is them going out, you're being sent. So tell me, tell me as you begin to build that group of people, how did that how did that message land with people? Because I'm sure it was fresh.

SPEAKER_00

Josh, like looking back, it was unreal and it can only be attributed to God, right? Because like I'm again to you, to me, it's nothing new, right? But I'm just sharing this vision about empowering uh followers of Jesus who have the Holy Spirit inside of them to actually leave those doors with a purpose. And it was to them something different, something new, like, oh, it's not just something I do on Sundays. It resonated well. How I said it, that's where you just look at God, like, okay, God took whatever I said and did something beautiful for him and for his glory, but it was new to them. It was.

SPEAKER_01

Man, so yeah, I mean, obviously, we're still here 13 years later, you're still pastoring. God has done some like really incredible things with the church. Yeah, and and I listen, I don't want to embarrass you. Sure. I don't want to, I also want to talk about what are some of those things, but before we dive into what those are, I I want to qualify it. I want to say, and more you're one of the most humble people that I know, but I want just the listeners to hear, like as we're talking about like God's specific like blessing for your church, like man, more than anybody that I know of, you're gonna you're gonna give that glory to God for all of that. For all of that.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. He he has done amazing things, right? He really has, Josh. I mean, you know our story. Um and I think you know me well enough to know this is this is true. Um, I'm a very simple man. I love Jesus. I think the word is true, right? And I just think we stick to that and we get to see God do his great things. What God has done at restoration from I remember your story. Remember your story? Your story was when you planted, you're a pretty good communicator and you had awesome worship.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

When we planted, we just had a bunch of willing people who are willing to be on mission, right? Right. And that's a true story, man. That is not self-like deprecation. That's just true. But to see what God has done from like 2013 to now 2025, by God's grace, we've been able to plant two churches that are very healthy, very strong. Uh, we've been able to raise up some leaders and send them out on the mission field to other churches to pastor. Um, we've done a little bit of residencies for church planters to go plant their own churches. That is, I don't have what it takes to do that stuff. Like, I'm I'm just a sales guy, man. God has been super awesome to restoration. And I heard Charlie Swain use this term, like survivor's guilt. You know, I like we planted with guys who who aren't in ministry anymore, right? It didn't work out for whatever reason, God's sovereignty. Like there is survivor's guilt, but for me personally, it's like okay, I got a little bit of survivor's guilt, but it's all God. Like he he for some reason has set his favor and blessing on restoration, and I'm just super thankful, don't want to screw it up. That's kind of what I try to do every day.

SPEAKER_01

And and I want to as far as bringing numbers into this, I want I want people to understand a couple things.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I want to talk about some numbers, but I don't want to talk about those like as far as attendance and all that goes, but there are some very important numbers I want people to understand. You've already mentioned one of them that you've already sent out two churches in 13 years. Yes. And for a smaller church plant, and I say smaller church plant in comparison to like large mega church with a lot of resources, relatively speaking, like that is a sacrifice. So the fact that you became ascending church early.

SPEAKER_00

Very thankful for that. That was bred in me by guys who were around me at the time in 2013, kind of having that mentality to plant. And Josh, if I'm being super transparent, like I never thought it would take us 10 years to plant a church. Like that, I viewed that as a huge failure for a long time. Um, now we we funded other church plants, we we gave them opportunity to come in and teach and and send people with them, but our very own church plant, like out of us, grew up, yeah. I did not think it would take us 10 years. Um why it did, I'll never know.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna ask, why do you think it took 10 years?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I like to give myself justification with excuses, you know, that you know, whatever it was. Yeah, but it's not it wasn't for lack of trying, it it was just a lack of God's timing. But then whenever he released that clog in the drain, man, we planted uh kingdom two and a half years ago, planted uh church 242 two months ago, and I'm already seeing God do the next one already. So anyway, all I had to say.

SPEAKER_01

Adam, man, just just like for the people to understand, like what you're what you just rattled off right there, is like one kingdom church led by Joe Douglas. Absolutely, incredible leader. Amen. Planted a church while he was on another continent. He did, he did, he certainly did. That's a whole nother story. Um, a great leader. That church is growing and seeing people baptized, then Sean McSwain, who might be the deadliest man that I ever met in my life.

SPEAKER_00

Easily, he's definitely the deadliest pastor. There's no one else around. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

If we if pastors had our own Cameron Haynes, it'd be him. It'd be him. It'd be him, yeah. It's just unreal.

SPEAKER_00

His evangelism is very effective. He has great evangelism.

SPEAKER_01

Just because like when it comes to self-confidence, like like most of the time I feel pretty when I'm around him, I think I don't belong. I have failed my body, right? He just got a black belt in Juicy. I know, I know. And if you don't understand how big of a deal that is, like it's it's crazy. That dude is unreal. And he's a leader of leaders.

SPEAKER_00

He is such a leader. Yeah. Um, so thankful for him.

SPEAKER_01

The the mindset though is save for our own emergency, right? The the mindset for most places is well, we have to keep it because if we give it away, what is gonna happen to home base? Yeah, you know what's gonna what's gonna happen to home base? I never forget. I was at that one of those same conferences you were talking about in Orlando. There was this mega, mega, mega, mega church planter, pastor guy who does his thing on another continent, very, very famous. And he got up and he said that to everyone. And he's like, you know what you need to do? You need to save your own people, don't send them out and keep them with you. That way, one day you can matter. And the whole room's full of church planters, and they're like, bro, you did you look at the signs on the way to the room? Well, then an actual church planter got up after the guy and basically said, Hey man, as this person came through here and said all this, basically all that's terrible.

SPEAKER_00

Let's go.

SPEAKER_01

Said it in a nice way. And I remember just being in the room, I'm texting a friend of mine going, Are you watching what's happening? This is amazing. But you've had that mindset. Send out your best.

SPEAKER_00

And it was drilled into me, not drilled into me, it was discipled into me by very godly men who, again, it's not new, it's straight out of the word, man. You just send your best out. Uh, I think it was Charlie who did say something to me years and years and years ago as I'm casting my vision about restoration. Like, what if, what if, what if it's not about you? And what if it's not primarily about restoration, but what if it's about the kingdom of God in Charleston? I was like, that's better. Let's do that. And like those guys just poured into me that have that kind of mentality of, all right, nobody belongs to me. I'm just, I'm just here as a vessel of the Lord. Let's send them out. And I will tell you, it is one thing to send out your children's director of nine years, your African American worship leader, when you're in an African American community who happens to speak Spanish and Joe Douglas at one time. That hurts. That hurts.

SPEAKER_01

That hurts, right?

SPEAKER_00

This this past two months when we sent out 25 to 30 percent of our annual budget with Sean and some of our families who had grown up as believers over the last seven, eight years, it was emotional.

SPEAKER_01

It hurts, but God is faithful, like God is already as I'm sitting here listening to you talk about it. It almost takes my breath away to just think about holy cow, like how heavy that is. It does cost something, it does. It is heavy, yeah. All right, we talked about church planting, two church plants in 13 years, but countless other guys you've invested in over time. I I know a lot of those stories personally, right? Also, let's talk about baptism. Okay. Like, I I I know that I I think you have this number. Like, how many people have you seen come through those waters? I mean, yeah, is it all right if we bring it up?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we we we can we can talk about that now. But you know this, right? I mean, I think you're part of a very large church, and so these numbers probably don't translate if you're a part of a large, large church, right? Okay. But keep in mind we started out with like 50 people, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh in over the years, right? So uh we have baptized, uh, make sure I don't give you the Baptist preacher answer, um, probably about 700 people would what would be would be appropriate. But the cool thing is, Josh, and I don't know if this is where you're going, but we typically baptize 40 people a year, maybe 35 people a year, right? When we planted out kingdom, we baptized 71 people that year. Just it jumped from like 40 to 71 as we sent people away. It was mind-boggling. We're like oh, that's crazy, but that's pretty cool. But this year we sent out Sean and we're going to break our baptism record, right? And so something is happening when we simply obey Jesus and send out our best. I don't I can't describe it, but man, it has been cool to see.

SPEAKER_01

I I love um I love the confidence and the the clarity. And I know I use those words a lot, but I I think there's something to be said for okay, why is God working this way? Like obviously due to the Holy Spirit, but there's no mistake in why um he's blessing you. It feels to me like, man, you were ready. You were making a plan for that. Like you You had a vision for that, you had a a mechanism to be able to leverage that blessing in your community. I think man, I think so many guys are curious about well, why am God doing that for me? And and I'm asking the question, do you have a vision for that? Do you have a system for that? That's good. Do you have a plan for that? Like if your whole community, if you've all heard it said before, if your whole community showed up on Sunday, where you where are they going to go to the bathroom? That's right. That's right. It ain't gonna work. Like it ain't gonna work. So what what you've been able to do through the power of the Holy Spirit is you put together a community of believers that have not only been able to minister to evangelize Hanahan, but also send out even in your own communic community, man. That's that's just a story to be celebrated to me. I just I love I love the idea of that. Don't don't offer me a job, Adam, because I can't, I can't, I can't handle it. I think you'd be a good culture for that. I probably would mess it up terribly. Come on, man. Come on. Um, but no, man, um, man, from the outside looking in, there's so much to celebrate. Yeah. And there is. And yet, like personally, yeah, you've had a lot to navigate through those years.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's been all the things that are true about it being good and the highest of highs, right? I remember when I planted in 2012, I reached out to a pastor of mine that I'd had in previous years who planted a church, planted his church. And I just remember him saying, he said it's the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. And again, when I was reading that from his email, I didn't really know what that meant. Now I know exactly what that means, highest of highs and lowest of lows. Um, it would be great if I could just say, yeah, I've had the same struggles every other pastor has with people leaving, not people not being happy, criticism, all that stuff. But it it has been um it's been some personal lows big time on that. Um we'll start out. I would just say uh as soon as we planted um the enemy attacked, just Katie and I. From from just um people pleasing in the congregation, or you know, she's going this way, I'm going that way. Difference of opinions is leadership. Um, we have the children, um, you know, we have our lives. Like what was I told you we were on locked step and we planted and we were super healthy, and that was true. Uh we're just two strong-willed, stubborn people who have very strong opinions about leadership and where we should do that and how we should do that. So we're navigating that, right? And that that seems like okay, everybody's got to do that. Everybody in marriage. True. And um in 2021, probably the lowest of lows came um in the midst of all that, coming out of COVID. That was a struggle for everybody in the sun, not just me, right? But in 2021, I um it's Thursday, Thursday afternoon. I um I'm on a call with somebody and I see my phone is just blowing up, just blowing up, blowing up. Um it's my brother-in-law, right? And so goodness gracious. So I call, call him back, hey man, what's up? And uh he's like, hey, you just need to call home. Something something's uh something's happened, just call home. I was like, ma'am, what happened? Like, just call home. So I remember calling my mom and um she said he's gone, he's gone. I was like, what are you talking about? And she again, I have no idea what she's saying. I don't have any context for what she's saying. She's like, he jumped in the lake, he's in the lake, he's he's been in there too long. It he's gone, Adam. I was like, who are you talking about? She's like your dad. So uh leading up to that, uh again 2021, summer 2021. He had come down with COVID, right? Um, around that time. And uh, like so many people did, right? No big deal. Now he did have the oxygen tank, you know, uh at the house, which for my dad to take an oxygen tank, that's a big deal. He's like show no weakness kind of guy, right? And so like I remember him getting the oxygen tank, like, oh, that's weird. Um, okay. Called him one one day, I think it was, I guess, beginning of August of that year. And I remember he said something which didn't sound like my dad. Typically, if I was to ask my dad, Dad, how you doing? And if he would have had the worst flu in the world, he would say something like, Oh, I'm fine, I'm gonna be all right in a couple days. You know, that's just who he was, right? Any minute. And I remember him saying, Man, this one's kicking my butt. I just don't know, Adam. That's weird. Interesting. Like, Dad, hang in there, man. It's gonna be fine. Praying for you, all this stuff, right? Because I'm in Charleston there in Augusta, Georgia. All right, fast forward to that day, the 19th of August 2021. And um whatever the reason was, um, some say it was uh COVID psychosis, which is a thing. Um, but he he jumped in a lake and took his own life. Um, and that changed me forever. Uh changed my family forever.

unknown

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00

And um like through that uh process, I'm the oldest of eleven, right? And so Josh, you've got people probably in your church when you planted who just say the silliest things, you know. I remember walking, and let me just say this before I say what she said. She's not wrong. She's not wrong. So I go into community group for the first time after the funeral. Um family's a wreck. Uh, got half of us think dad died of COVID psychosis, and half of us think that he took his own life out of selfishness and all kind of weird stuff going on inside the family. So I walk in community group, and um this lady looks at me like I'm walking in, and everybody's kind of being nice, and oh, so good to have you back. She says, She says, Hey, like I know you just lost your dad, but you need to be worried about your little brothers and sisters, not you. And she's not wrong, but man, in that moment, I had some pretty evil thoughts. Sure. Like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And part of it was she's not wrong. I got 42 years with my dad. Um beautiful years. I had a little sister, had a little sister who was a sophomore going into high school. My brother was literally that weekend was planning on moving to Bob Jones to play college basketball, right? Um, and so the burden of all that, man, seeing your little brothers and sisters like reeling, in addition to somehow trying to keep your own heart like just out of the spotlight, like just I'll deal with it later. It was tough, man. It was tough.

SPEAKER_01

Man, for for the people listening in, like it's it's heavy to hear. I can't I can't imagine what it would have been like one to be trying to navigate the loss of somebody you love so deeply and losing them in that way. But you compound that with the pressure that you've now immediately been placed as a family patriarch. And you carry the responsibility of holding it together. And for people that don't understand, that goes all the way from a 42-year-old man all the way down to a sophomore in high school. Yeah. And gosh, that's a that's a heavy, heavy weight.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's a lot to carry.

SPEAKER_00

It was. Um, and I'll I'll I'll tell you this like in just the weirdness. Uh we'll call the sovereignty of God, I guess, but it was just weird. Josh, I did 17 funerals in the next 18 months after my dad died. 17 funerals, one of which was his brother who died unexpectedly one year later. Um, it was just an insane time of my life where I'm reeling with grief. I can't really talk about it. I mean, I can, but I'm too busy to talk about it because I'm dealing with this, this, and this, and having family meetings trying to get brothers and sisters to get along again. And you know, mom's grieving by the way, like she's still reeling from from this. Like it was a lot, man. It was a lot. Um, and I was at a place where like I remember talking to my elders uh at the time and being like, hey, I can't see straight. Like I can't hear from the Lord. I can't, I can still perform. I can still perform on Sundays. I know that sounds terrible, but I could perform on Sundays, and I could walk into a Baptist association room and I could perform, and I could walk into somebody's house and do counseling and perform. And man, there was just this bad stuff happening in my heart, man, where it was a little bitterness, uh, a lot of grief, a lot of resentment, um, and for no good reason. It was just boiling in there, man. Um, so all that to say, uh, that led me to seeking some help. Um, and I went to seek some help. Met a guy by the name of Clay Jernigan. Uh, I know you know Clay. And uh, man, we met at a coffee shop, and I forget why we were meeting, but essentially, I just throw up on him everything I just said to you, and he's like, Hey, I think you need to go see somebody and talk it out. And man, it was that piece of advice has changed my life. Probably saved my ministry, save potentially my marriage, right? It just it was so good to be able to go that direction and find out where I was and who I was.

SPEAKER_01

Man, for your for your family. What what did this loss mean to them? Gosh, man.

SPEAKER_00

Well, started my own house, right? So in my own house, um, these kids just lost their superhero grandfather, right? Um, again, my dad was 60, do the math in my head, 62 when he passed, but a good shape athlete kind of guy, still coaching basketball at high school level, giant of a man, but again, gracious. So here's here's uh my son, and my daughter, and they've just lost their superhero granddad by suicide, right? Um go outside my house and my brothers and sisters, like dad was everybody's hero. Like he was that guy, like he was that guy. Uh quiet, but loving, stern, strong, like he was just that guy. And man, like to see my brothers and sisters in their own way dealing with it or not dealing with it, um, it was rough, man. It was it was a lot. It was it was terrible. And my mom, again, my mom's she's kind of left behind as well because she's got so many grieving kids, and you know, she's grieving in her own right.

SPEAKER_01

How how were they needing you at the time?

SPEAKER_00

And so that was hard to navigate, right? So again, looking back at that time, again, my life in Charleston didn't stop. My ministry in Charleston didn't stop. Maybe it should have, uh, but it didn't. Um, and so I'm in Charleston, most of them are in Augusta. Uh I was I remember having phone conversations with with many of them for hours, you know. I don't know. I feel like I don't know what they needed from me. I didn't know what they needed from me, but I don't think I gave it to them either. Um, it was just a hard time, man. It was just a really, really, really hard time because there was 11 people, 12 count mom, going through this immense grief that nobody prepared us for. We didn't know how to do it. But we could give you a verse and a scripture for it if we had to, though. Make sense.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's interesting to see and to think about like the unique pressure that you carry. And that's not to minimize anybody else's pain. And that's that's not even what we're talking about. It's it's more the fact that you're responsible for shepherding and leading a church, you're responsible for taking care of your what's become a staff of people at that church whose livelihoods depend on them continuing to do what they're doing. There's all kinds of people that are really dependent on you in that church body for their ongoing needs, and you're walking into other family situations carrying your own situation. And and those people, and for whatever reason, a lot of times don't they don't see pastors as people and individuals with their own stories, and we're expected to leave a funeral of a child and show up at dinner with our own kids as if it never happened. And this is the pen like for you, you've got you've got these two pieces of your life crashing together. Adam, I just I just want to ask you, how did you sustain that?

SPEAKER_00

Um, not well, right. Um, not well. And so, how did I sustain it? I'm a performance guy, so I just whatever I had to do today, I did it. Um, and I wanted to do it well while kind of stuffing all that other stuff down below. Um again, so you asked the question, how did I handle all that? I didn't handle it well. I don't know that many people would have known that, um, or many people would have seen that outside of Katie, uh, maybe the kids, right? But I I feel like I would try to hide that stuff from the kids pretty well. But all I know is like I like I was telling you, I would go to the gym and and lift weights, right? And there would be so much rage in my soul uh in the gym. And I kind of like justified it, like this is my island, like this is this is what I'm doing. This is it, right? I'm good, I'm good. Let me just do this, right? Um, but there was like so much anger, bitterness, and resentment. Um I say that it it didn't come out to the kids. I'm I'm also not an idiot. I'm sure it did, right, right. I know it came out to Katie, uh just just being distant, being not not connected, not attuning to anybody's heart. Um I couldn't even figure out how to attune to my own heart so I could attune to Katie's or the kids or even truly be present for the congregation. Again, I can't.

SPEAKER_01

On top of that, your mom and all and other people who some are very young.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, yes. It it was a tough time, brother.

SPEAKER_01

What were the I mean, you did I I do hear there were some mechanisms in place. Yeah, yeah. One, you had a you had a friend. Yes. Two, you talked about your elders. Yes. It sounds like you're having some real conversations about what you're experiencing and how you need to be able to personally navigate that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so so I'll be as brief as I can on this, but it was life-changing, and I would hope that it would bring hope to somebody else who may be going through whatever, something similar. Uh, so I did have a group of men that I could share, like, hey, I'm not okay kind of deal. Going through a little bit of coaching, counseling, whatever you want to call it, I don't care. Uh, I call it counseling, and it was a game changer for me. Learning so much about myself in that time of grief. I went to that dude hoping he would give me the magic pill to get over grief, get over myself and move on.

SPEAKER_01

But what I get back to doing right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like, man, I gotta get better. Like, whatever. Uh, but man, just through that process, just learning how gracious God is, learning how truly broken I am, and not hiding that, like, I'm not enough. Like, God doesn't need Adam's or like the pastor restoration. I don't have to perform so that those guys keep their jobs. I don't have to perform so that the church doesn't fall apart. God's got that. Like, I don't have to carry that load. And then understanding like things that I thought were everybody else's fault, it was pretty much my fault, right? It was like 99% my fault, right? But for years it was like, man, if they would just get their act together, if they just get their act together. And it was like it just learning so much about myself. So I say all that to say, man, the grief was real, the that time of my life was so terrible. Um, but it was also transformative that God in that moment or season of brokenness would show me who I really am, that he still loves me in spite of that, and that I'm not enough. Like I'm not enough, and that's okay. That way he is game changer for me. Game changer for me. So I would say to your question, I had the counseling, which changed my life. Got some pushback for that stuff uh initially, but man, it changed my life. And I do have some men around me who I I let them know like, hey man, I'm not okay.

SPEAKER_01

Our um our go-to protection mechanism is for for me, I would assume for you, is isolation, oh yeah, protection. That's right. You know, shields up, yep. Um, time to gear up, be a man. Yep. I got this. Yep. Um man, I'm I remember my own story. Um I remember I remember my own story that like the the the first thought for me was um, oh man, this guy got me once. That's right. You can be sure. And I had another word right before sure that I that I'm not gonna say into this microphone.

SPEAKER_00

I understand.

SPEAKER_01

You can be sure. Take it, take it to the bank, and it won't happen again. That's right. And that mindset, bro. Um, I remember I got suspect of everybody. Even Renee. My eyebrows are up, like, what's in my dinner tonight? You know, like what we do, and I know, like, and I know that part of that's hyperbole, but the other part of it is not. Like it was very, very real. Like my I lost trust for everyone. And even the people that deserved it. So isolation became a friend that I chose over every other friend.

SPEAKER_00

What did that look like? Because I would agree, but I I could my isolation was more relational as opposed to physical. Does it make sense?

SPEAKER_01

Dude, I I can tell you real clearly, um, as a pastor, um, the the church started declining, and I began to make decisions um in isolation, like hiring people, oh gotcha, firing people, um, never once saying to anyone that I'm not okay. Yeah, the mindset was I have to be okay. Because if I'm not okay, everything else is gonna crash. That's right. And I just pushed through. And so I befriended isolation, and it almost got me. I mean, it did it cost me my job. It cost me ministry at the time. I mean, thank God for my friends at South Carolina Batiness Convention. I think they just paid me for a solid, like, we were all wondering. I wish you're all doing this guy doing. He's on he's on the website. Is he doing anything? Doesn't he look nice? Isn't a nice guy? I mean, I I remember calling him for a while, I had them be like, what are you, what are you, um, what can I be doing this week? You know, like and and again, this is a completely different group of people. And I would, I mean, those guys are are I they saved me. There was another church in Colombia. I mean, they just they just I mean, I won't mention their name because I don't want everybody else reaching out to them and being like, oh, I need to find them, but another church in in Colombia, um, a couple of guys that just stepped in and took care of me and my family financially. Like, so yeah, man, I I it literally cost me just about everything. I just I really wanted to die. Yeah, I Adam, as as you as you I want you to think about there are a lot of guys that are right now finding themselves underneath something that they don't know what to do about it. Yeah, and they maybe feel alone.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And what I what I would want to ask you is if you just could speak into that guy, yeah, what would you say to him?

SPEAKER_00

Man, um number one, I'm sorry. And man, my heart breaks for that. At the same time, there is freedom when you bring whatever that thing is out to light. For me, it was again, I thought it was just my grief, ended up being codependency, ended up being bitterness, ended up being resentment. I could, once I expose that, once I brought that to light, shared that with other men, uh, that's when healing began. I would argue I'm still in that healing process and I have to repent every day of that. But I would just plead with that man to come out of isolation, to come out of hiding and find freedom. And here's the other thing I would say you probably know this better than me, being you've been in ministry longer than I have, but I do sense that some guys are scared to come out because they don't want to lose their jobs. God will provide even when we are not faithful.

SPEAKER_01

One way or another.

SPEAKER_00

He provides. Yeah. And so I would just say, come out, expose that, and trust the hand of God. Like watch what he does because he's gracious and good.

SPEAKER_01

If if the circumstance is an external one that you don't have any control over, God will care for you. Yeah. If the circumstance is a result of your own sin, He's still gonna take care of you, which is crazy. Yes, he will care for you. So you are better off in the hands of God than you are in the hands of whatever sin is trying to wrap itself around you.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. That's right. Whatever that variable is, 100%. God will be faithful. He always is. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I um, man, it just to sit back and to see how God brought you through that um kind of as a bystander friend on the sidelines. I I think I heard most of this story a little bit after you'd already come back through counseling. Yeah, I knew that it had happened, but having a having a view into man, your your heart is is to see that that counseling really did save you. I think I think so many people, pastors, leaders, they're afraid to say that they're weak.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. And listen, I don't know about other guys. I had guys in my life who essentially said that counseling is for the weak.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Those whispers are in there, but man, I would just say, man, humble yourself, go through it, watch what God does. Um yeah, I'll leave it at that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It it really, I mean, I I would I would I would double down and say find a place where somebody loves Jesus and has credentialed abilities to help you through this process. Yes. Find them and get connected to them for help.

SPEAKER_00

Josh, you said it best. Yes. Amen to everything you said. They have to love Jesus. Because I do think some coaching/slash counseling doesn't bring the hope of the gospel in. But man, I think there's a place with credentialed counseling with the hope of the gospel. It is beautiful. I would just say don't yes to everything you said, but make sure wherever you're traveling down, whatever road you're traveling down, they bring the hope of the gospel with their credentials. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it's our only hope.

SPEAKER_00

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01

Adam, thank you so much for sharing so much of this, so much of this story. I um I I know like from from over here, just just looking in, I can tell you that understanding the weight of the pain that you guys have experienced. Like I'm really sorry for that. Thank you. I I wish that you didn't have to experience that. And I believe that God has many, many hopeful days and years to go. And I I as we kind of bring this thing to a to a close, um, I I got you a gift. Uh oh. And um, yeah, and a little worried now. You shouldn't be. You shouldn't be. Um, I I wanna I want to share it with you, and I want to um I want to explain a little bit about it to you. Okay. Um, I want you to see it as as kind of two things. Okay. One is just like a marker of remembrance. Yeah. Um, because there's two gifts I want to give you. One is is this in this little bag, and the other is from my heart, which is which is a blessing. Um, I'm I I say it every time I do one of these, is um being able to give someone a blessing is to recognize their God-given talent, ability, and beauty, and speak that over their life. And I and I want to do, I want to do that. And that that's coming.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'm a little nervous.

SPEAKER_01

But this is a marker. This is this is a marker to you for you just to remember, remember this guy. So I want I want you to open this up and then I'm gonna explain it to you as we go. So I can see the nervousness. People don't know the kind of guy you are. Like you, this is over the top for you right now. So so uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh open it up. Nothing's gonna hurt you. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, what you're looking at right there is a um we'll throw that back there. Absolutely. Um, this is a case pocket knife.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um, Case is obviously a staple brand in pocket knives. Um, but that's not just any pocket knife. Um, that pocket knife was literally made the year you were born.

SPEAKER_00

Oh way.

SPEAKER_01

It was. Um that was made, I don't mind saying, that was made in 1978 by Case. And it was still it was made back when um the family still had much control over the business and what was happening. And that was made by hand. And it's not just any any pocket knife. Um, I think I think this one's called um, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called a senator's pen.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so I'll tell you a little bit about this. It's for the gentleman, it's for the guy that works hard during the week, and then he switches out to a suit for Sunday, and that's the knife he's gonna take with him. That's cool. Now, if you open it up, one of the things I love about this particular one, if you look on the blade, it actually has the word case in red. And that is something like really desirable for collectors. Also, the handle on that knife is uh red stack, and those were resourced um throughout Europe and put on there. Each one is individual, each one's made by hand, all that thing's put together, case all the markings are on it. That's awesome. Um, there's a little bit, it's I I put that on the box so you'd be able to track it down if you want to know more about it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Here's why I'm giving that to you.

SPEAKER_00

Please, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01

Um, that was made with much craftsmanship for a purpose. And Adam, I I see what God has put together for you to be so much greater than a simple pocket knife, which is a beautiful, beautiful knife. Anyone watching this? If you want to get me something, 1976, like that's the year. So uh anyway, I'm I'm joking, I'm not joking. But um, Adam, when you speak a blessing over someone, it is a moment that you recognize in them the beauty that that God has put there. And Adam, I I would say I have so much respect for who you are as a man and your leadership. I'm not joking earlier when I said, man, don't offer me a job. Like it would, it would seriously be tempting. And I want to dial into what I mean by that. I I look around at the people on your team and I think, man, do they really know the opportunity that they have to be connected to this guy? And man, how you invest in other people. Um, I spent a lot of time with pastors over the years. Um, you have too. And you know, are you ever in a moment with them and you feel like they're busy and they need to get on to the next thing? Sure. There have been multiple times you've been with me, and I find out later you were late to your next meeting, and you never let me feel it. Because you were lost in the moment with me. Dude, your your investment and friendship to me, I'm very, very grateful for. Not just that. I'm hopeful for you and Katie that the blessing of the gospel will pour itself out on your children and their children and their children.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Not because you're special and I do you're special. Katie, she's special, she's special, but because Jesus is special.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_01

I pray for blessing for all of your brothers and sisters, that they would see, even in these few years after losing your dad in such a terrible way, that they would see and know the beauty of a father that will never ever leave them. And that in God's way, in the same way that He restored your parents' marriage when you were a 10-year-old boy, he would bring that same redemption to all of your brothers and sisters through the loss of your father. I pray that. Thank you, Josh.

SPEAKER_00

That means a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. I am grateful for you. I'm grateful for what you mean in this state. I'm grateful that you have a heart of ascending church pastor, a heart of a father, a heart of a faithful husband. You are a man that I would set my trajectory on to be like you. And I think young men can look at you and do the same thing.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

I love you. I love you.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01

I'm grateful for you, buddy. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for doing what you do. Love you, brother.