Acceptable Sacrifices

Discussion on Genesis 4:1-7

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Well, welcome back to the Bible and Me podcast. We are all the way into Genesis chapter number four, verse one. And we're over halfway through the year now. So it's been pretty exciting. This is actually our third or fourth recording session, maybe. Yeah. Fourth?

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Fourth, I believe.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

Okay. So it's been uh a few months since we recorded the last uh set of episodes. Uh, but we ended last talking about what life would be like. And I just want to say, first of all, uh, this is a Bible study podcast, and the way we encourage people to consume it is to go back to episode one. We're doing a study through the fall narrative. So go back to Genesis one with us, sit down with your Bible, and you can either watch us on YouTube or listen to us, and we go uh pretty much verse by verse through these first few chapters in the Bible. And I hope it's a discussion unlike any that people experience on a regular basis. But I my prayer is that it will uh cause other people to sit down in a communal setting like this or in Sunday school class and have uh discussions just like this. So we encourage you to listen to us, uh, watch us on YouTube, however you want to do that. I know some people listen to podcasts while they're driving down the road. I'm not saying you can't get anything out of it if you do it that way either, but it is a Bible study podcast. So we encourage you to sit down with your Bible and and read along with us. So I just kind of want to get your thoughts about where we've been. How has that changed the way you've studied your Bible? Where we've been?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

I think for me, initially, it makes me feel like every time I read something, I'm missing something that's probably there.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

Yeah, it's kind of looking for the puzzle behind it.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

A a little bit, yeah. But then you can also see some patterns, I think. Um, and maybe it's it's caused me to just slow down a little bit when I read. And we've mentioned it before, and understanding you know the initial readers of what they was feeling at that time.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Right. Brother Brett. Uh that's been the same for me, trying to slow down and actually try to uh see something in it.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

And uh and then what Brad just said about the initial readers. I know we've talked about that already, but that was something that even since our last recordings really stuck out to me. I looked into that a little bit more. That I've had and had a conversation actually this week with a man about it of having absolutely zero understanding or comprehension of when children of Israel received this, yeah, where they were at, had no comprehension of of really where that where that would they were at in history. Yeah. And uh so it's pretty neat talking to him about that and going back through reading this this again, seeing, seeing that in it.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Sure. We're gonna jump into Genesis chapter number four, and I appreciate y'all's thoughts on that. I hope that it does change the way we consume the Bible on our on our regular study uh days, our study habits on a daily basis, I should say. Um, I hope that it changes the way you look at there's not a wasted word in the Bible. Every part of it, the structure is inspired. Um so all that being said, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Can I just say this real quick? One thing, and especially before we get into today's topic uh or the story in chapter four, reading it again, and actually uh recently I went back and just the first three chapters, I listened to it. I got out of the habit of listening. I could just it was too easy to just words in not comprehending. But I was listening to it and something really jumped out at me by listening, and that was the the thought it's pretty common to hear it, life and death. I thought like a life and death situation in chapter one and two, the word life is used a whole lot, and it made me think um about God. What a God of of life, yeah, what he's trying to bring man here, not just life as in breath, but life of a relationship with him. Step back and look at that in a spiritual lens of what a true relationship and life in Christ or in God is. Um, and then the the flip side of that of of death, and God tells Adam there in Genesis chapter two, like when you eat of the tree, it'll bring forth death, not just a physical death, but a spiritual death, a um a uh separation from a relationship with God. And that just just listening to it again, just really, and we we may have touched on some of that before, but just that contrast of life versus death, and then we're gonna see that again in chapter four. Sure. Um something that I don't know that we've talked about necessarily like that, but just listening to it again really jumped out at me this time.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Yeah, that's awesome. It's neat to have those fresh experiences when you go back. And we've said from the beginning, we're not doing everything there is to do right here. This is meditation literature. You can spend a lifetime in it, never mind all of its meaning, but that's the very thing that keeps you going back to the text is because there's always something more there, and it can be life-changing on a daily basis. It can illuminating. I've uh been amazed at how much it causes you to s to search your own motives, your own. I mean, just reading about the first three chapters in the Bible, you can just really wrestle with the text and wrestle with God through the text.

unknown 6:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

I was having a conversation with an individual this week as well, that um he was talking about trying to live a life pleasing to God and talking about falling short in some areas, and I hope that God's not displeased with me. And that attitude I think we all wrestle with. But I talked to him about taking the word of God and you know the things that you know about God through his word that you're not doing, you wrestle with that and you say, God, I need your grace, and it's his grace that his abundant gift of grace that pulls you up to you know his expectations. It's transforming.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Um one of the things I wanted to start out with was we're gonna be reading now what life is like out of Eden. Eden is this heaven and earth spot where God's presence has come down and touched the earth, the dry ground, and it's a space where as long as man is without sin, they could coexist. Man sinned, so he's driven outside of that heaven and earth space. But outside of the heaven and earth space doesn't mean that Eden's gifts or God's good gifts are not realized in some um obscured ways on the outside. We don't read where God cut off the water source that was running out of Eden to the rest of the land. Um we don't read where there was no fruit outside the garden. There was, though it changed for Adam. Uh it wouldn't yield its abundance like it one time did. Um, marriage. Marriage is still available outside of Eden, though the relationship between man and woman was going to change according to uh Genesis 3.16. The fallout of their folly is going to change their relationship. But marriage, you you could have a committed, loyal relationship between man and woman, and that's a gift from God. I just kind of wanted to highlight the gifts of Eden that are still available outside of Eden. Um, what about every time you experience true beauty in God's creation? I mean, there's been places that I've gone that have absolutely left me spellbound to just like the magnitude of this.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Right.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Or the feeling of love or joy or peace. Now we know as New Testament believers that none of that comes to its uh fulfillment outside of Christ to the depth that it that it could or should. Right. But what about every time you laugh? I mean, those are gifts from God to be able to experience joy and peace. So I I want to highlight that because we're about to go into another very dark passage of scripture uh and we're reading, you know, just the skeletal structure of where sin had its beginnings and and the fallout of that. But I want us to all understand that that God still has a plan outside of Eden for you know thousands of years for man and God to, you know, over time be joined back together through God's doings. What's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 9:33

I do think uh God's nature of being merciful shines in that, of still allowing the good gifts that come from him to be to be provided outside of the garden.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

Yeah, well, we talked last episode about God um providing the covering so he could look at the covering instead of sin. Yes, and what an act of God's mercy that was. And also death being an act of God's mercy so that man doesn't eternally live in a sinful state. Um, all of these things, God's mercy is mixed in with his justice. And uh so let's let's read Genesis chapter number four. We're gonna read the first seven verses, and I don't know how far we're gonna get into this, but we'll just uh we'll just go until it's time to stop. And Adam knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bare Cain, and said, I've gotten a man from the Lord, and she again bare his brother Abel, and Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground, and in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord, and Abel he also brought of the firstlings of his flock, and of the fat thereof, and the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering, but unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth, and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Okay. Now we're finding out what life is like outside the garden, and we find that Eve says, After her and Adam come together as husband and wife and conceive, she says, I have gotten a man from the Lord. What's the last thing that God tells her in instruction? I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. But in verse number fifteen, he says to her, I will put enmity between thee and the woman, speaking of the serpent, and between thy seed and her seed. So she's gonna have the ability to produce seed or offspring, and her offspring and the snake's offspring are gonna be at odds with one another. So there's two seed lines that's being talked about. Her first response, well, then God goes on and says, It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. It's a prophecy about Christ, but it's a prophecy about the righteous seed line being a head crusher to the serpent, but also the unrighteous seed line or wicked seed line is going to be a heel striker toward the uh righteous seed line of the of the woman. So here she says, in response to her conception of Cain, I've gotten a man from the Lord. I want you to turn to the last last part of this uh chapter because we're gonna read a whole lot about how that Cain goes off the rails. This gift from God goes off the rails. The Bible says in verse number 25, these are bookends to this chapter. And Adam knew his wife again, and she bare a son and called his name Seth. For God, she said, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. So there seems to be a little nuance, and I don't know that I can fully articulate it, there seems to be a little nuance of difference between her approach to the gift that God gave her in verse number one and the gift that God gave her in verse number 25. It seems like she's saying, I have done something. Like this is going to be the seed that God promised. I it makes me wonder whether Cain was her expectation of being the head crusher to the serpent. Like this, all right, now we've got our answer. I've gotten a man child from the Lord. He is going to crush the head of the serpent. But then the fallout of what happens after that with these two brothers getting into conflict, it doesn't work out that way. And as a matter of fact, it goes much worse than not working out that way. The one who she had seemingly put her hope in in verse number one has killed his brother, shed his blood, and then the fallout that's terrible. But then all of a sudden, at the end of the chapter, we find out that Adam knew his wife again, and she bare a son and called his name Seth. And she gives all the credit to God. This is not I have done anything. Yeah, God has appointed, God's given me another gift of mercy to stand in the stead of the righteous one in our family. So we're about to be introduced to the righteous and the unrighteous seed line. Is that by God's providence or is that by man's choice? Big questions, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Yeah. I want to say man's choice.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Yeah. The modern arguments would say that God, God is the one that chooses this, but it's very clear in this chapter, and I know we bring modern arguments to these texts, and it's not always wise, but I think that as you go through these verses, you're going to find these two men both had a choice of how they would how they would uh relate to God, and God left that in their hands. So let's let's talk about this. The first things we find out about um about Cain and Abel is this, that we find out their occupations. Abel was a keeper of the sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. Going back to the point of uh Israel's conception of these two occupations, is there anything else in the rest of the biblical storyline that talks about these two occupations? Something that's not super inherent in our way of thinking because we tie farming and and herding, uh, we tie that all together.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

But uh a tiller of the ground is is what we find out here later on in this chapter is that Cain uses that as a concentrated effort uh to build a city, uh, or maybe his offspring does. So um farming in their day uh was tied to cities. So cities had a negative connotation in the biblical uh storyline because they were concentrated places where you're not out roaming and trusting God to bring forth the abundance, but you're building a place where along with the city comes an agricultural area where they can supply their own food. It's basically uh the idea to the Hebrew mind was like this is a place where I can supply my own whatever. And we can all live here together, we don't have to move around, and it takes the element of trust. But shepherds, on the other hand, were completely the opposite of that. They roamed, they had herds that they had to rely on a partnership with God to uh be able to provide for them. So those two occupations come with something that's preloaded, not to our minds, but to Israel's mind when they're getting these texts. Um shepherds were despised by the Egyptians. The Israelites were despised by the Egyptians where they had just came out of, likely when they got these texts. And um so there's automatically going to be something tied to their occupations. But that's in this particular portion, that's not anything that's inherently wrong about what either one of these do. But then we find out the way they approach God. In the process of time, it came to pass that Cain brought forth of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. I want to draw attention to the fact that these were not mandatory. This was not something that God demanded. An offering is something that's given of the free will. And so, in the process of time, it came to pass that Cain brings something of his will. And then it also says that Abel he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. Here again, we're at a portion of scripture that doesn't have uh links in our mind to any other part of the scripture, but to a Hebrew reader, they know about offerings. Right. They know what God, I mean, they're getting this law of how they approach God. And if you study, here again, these are these are texts that point forward to something else that's gonna happen later on. You find out when you when the Levitical law is given down that the fat of an offering is God's portion for whatever reason, that's what he loves. Right. So they could read and say right off uh hand, Abel just brought something that God loves. He he gave him something that God loves. There's also another little signal he brought of the firstling of his flock. Yes, he gave him the very first, yes, which is also something they find out in their law that God loves. What's your thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

These verses probably four and five have always made me feel like God was just being unfair.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

That's what I've always read it as.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Yeah, I didn't quite I didn't And I I think it's good that we highlight that because we've read these. It's like, what's the big difference? What's the big deal?

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Cause to me it was like, well, they both brought an offering from their increase, from their occupation.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Yeah. Yes. But I think there's little signals there to tell us the reason why one was accepted and the other wasn't. I don't know what the signal was from God, but they both seem to have the understanding that whatever they gave to God was either accepted or rejected. How did that happen? Did God consume their sacrifice? The text doesn't say, but whatever it was, there's a signal that Cain full well knows my sacrifice has been rejected by God and his sacrifice has been accepted by God. And these little, little subtle differences you have to read on and study on into the Bible to catch up to that. It's like, what would be the is a grain offering wrong to give to God? No. There was something in the um in the Levitical law that had acceptance for grain offerings. Yes, but there's an approach to that. Um, I would have to look it up. It's in Leviticus. Y'all go ahead and give me your thoughts on that while I look this up.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

I always just probably thought it was maybe the attitude behind the offering. How you know, whether it was given begrudgingly or you know. Willingly. I yeah. I mean, obviously, if there was no law here of of offerings, they were both doing it willing. I mean, no one was making them do that, but that's kind of what I've always just thought. Well, there must have just been a difference in the attitude of which they were giving the offering. And maybe that's also how I've heard it preached before. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

I just assumed Cain came and said, Hey, look what I grew. Look at all those beautiful things that I grew and made it about himself. And Abel came with a humble attitude, just the way I've always read that.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Right. Uh, what I was gonna highlight was in the Levitical law, the way you approach God came in three offerings. The first one was a full surrender burnt offering unto the Lord, where you give the entire animal to God.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

Then the next one was the meat offering, which I think would be um also equivalent to whatever offering that, or at least connected to the offering that Cain is giving here. That is, since you've accepted this first offering, then I'm going further into the approach, into the tabernacle to approach God's presence. So it's almost like Cain came to, at least the way you would read it if you study the Levitical law, he's moving on to the second offering without doing the first. Like there's no way to do that. The first way you approach God's presence is through full surrender. I'm giving you everything, I'm giving you the entire animal, the burnt offering. So that second offering in the Levitical law is the meat offering or the grain offering, and it's I'm giving you of the fruit of the ground, or um, it could be that third offering is um a peace offering. So you get a a um sin sacrifice offering, a guilt offering, then you get the the meat offering, and then you get a a uh peace offering. So, in other words, the closer I get to the holy of holies, the more I have given myself. This is how you enter into worship with God. So it seems at least that Cain has stepped uh uh at least one step or maybe two steps forward in whatever that process would become for Israel. Now I know it's not inherent in Genesis chapter number four, but to the readers of this text, it'd be like sending off signals. Hang on just a minute. The other thing that that gives us a little signal is their attitude about this offering. If Abel is offering the very first that he has, and then Cain, the Bible says, in the process of time it came to pass, it almost feels like a matter of convenience to me when I read that. Do you see that? It's like, well, whenever it's convenient, it came to pass. It was like through a process of time. This was all right, well, I know God wants something, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, when I find time, I'm gonna get around to that. And when he does find time, he offers a bundle of whatever seems good in his mind. Right. I want to talk about how that applies to us today. Like, what's your thoughts on how that applies to you and I today? When we approach a holy God, what should be our approach? Worship is something that is deliberate on our part, but it is a it is a it is a um act of our own will. And when it comes to worship, God can't accept half-hearted worship. It's pretty heavy, huh?

SPEAKER_02 25:42

It is. Yeah. So half-hearted worship, which I would say we find ourselves guilty of from time to time. Yeah. Is that just in vain? Um I don't think totally in vain. Well, first let me say, what would be your definition of half-hearted worship?

SPEAKER_04 26:02

Um, just giving God what you think is good enough. Just good enough. When it's working on our will anyway, it's like there's times where we give God what's good enough and we feel pricked in our conscience about that. Um just like like you asked the question, is it in vain? My answer would be it don't have to be in vain because God's response to Cain was to come and ask questions again. It's not, yeah, it's not all right, your offering wasn't accepted, but let's talk about why it wasn't accepted.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

It can be extremely convicting, huh? It can. Yeah. Here's the other thing. Like I don't know, the Bible doesn't say what caused them to understand that one sacrifice was accepted and one was rejected, but it's very clear that Cain knew whatever he had offered wasn't good enough.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:07

And his countenance fell. You would think that his countenance would fall in conviction, but that doesn't seem to be what's gone on, right? No.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

Under Cain to his offering, God had not respect, verse number five. We learn right here at the very beginning of living outside of Eden that worship is still extremely important to God. Like however limited the relationship is, you can't go back in that garden or you can't go back in the divine presence, but God is willing to allow his presence to come to where you are in worship. And and he moves at your he responds to something you give to him with your will, and that doesn't mean that everything is completely lost. Like a relationship with God is not completely lost. There's still at that sacrifice, if God's presence comes down and consumes that, that's a heaven and earth spot outside of Eden.

unknown 28:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

So whatever that uh relationship is, take advantage of that. And instead of Cain looking at Abel and saying, I rejoice because you, you know, your relationship with God is intact. There must be something in me. I I don't think there was a real question in Cain's mind of why his sacrifice wasn't accepted. We look at that and ask questions about it, but I don't think there was a question in his mind. God knows the thoughts and the intent of our heart, and he addresses that with him.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Do you think it was a little bit of like hurting his pride? Or do you think he already knew? Is that what you're saying? He knew exactly why. You know, we're saying like with his countenance, he was angry first. It made him angry, and his countenance fell. Like, is it uh obviously that wasn't out of conviction, but was it out of hurt feelings or hurt pride?

SPEAKER_04 29:08

More so the source of his anger.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:11

I that's the question, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Who are you really mad at, Cain? Who's just who is his anger directed at? God's the one that responds to it.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

But then we see that obviously it was directed towards his brother as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

I've always just thought his anger was towards God. For not accepting.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

But his response was toward his brother.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah. But here thinking of it, it the anger could have just been toward himself.

unknown 29:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Yeah. And really, when it comes to a lack of acceptance by God, people get totally delusional in in their own thoughts about whose fault this really is. Yeah. It's the blame game again. Yeah. You know. But look at God's response to this. God's response is amazing. It is. He comes again asking questions. And as we learned in chapter number number three, that God never asks questions to be informed. He's the all-knowing one. And instead of saying, All right, I'm rejecting this guy because he's given half-hearted sacrifice to me of his own will, and I don't want to have anything to do with him, God comes down and asks questions. Why art thou wroth? Why is thou thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? This is something that he knew. If you do what is good, you're going to be accepted. If you do the good thing, he's asking that question to him. Did Cain answer any of those questions?

SPEAKER_02 30:54

No.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

No. As a matter of fact, verse number eight says, and Cain talked with Abel, his brother. He just doesn't even answer God. He doesn't talk to God about these questions. There seems to be a a little bit of a shift in the in the hardness of the heart compared to Adam and Eve. They're at least answering God's questions. This guy's not even talking to God.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah. And moving on into eight, it's it's like Cain thinks that I can fix this problem without God. If Abel's the one that's giving the acceptable offering and mine's not accepted, then if I take out Abel, then mine can be accepted. It's kind of a very uh perverted way of thinking that I can I can accomplish God's will without God.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

Yeah. Yeah. And here again, it's holding the mirror up in front of our faces. How many times have we done that very thing where we say, I can do this without God?

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Well, just what we were saying about uh Cain's attitude, maybe what what thinks makes me think he was mad at himself was because looking through this, you know, sometimes when we fall, we do, we are upset at ourselves, and it's sometimes it causes us just to withdraw. That the tendency is just to withdraw from others, withdraw from God. And I kind of see maybe that's what he did here. He didn't want to answer God comes to ask those questions, not out of anger, which is how I've always thought it was, but it it it wasn't. God comes to ask those questions and he didn't want to talk to him, he didn't want to answer that, didn't want to take care of the problem maybe that was in his heart and that just festered and it grew. And then when he he talked to his brother, maybe it was, hey, how how come yours was accepted? And maybe when Abel tells maybe Abel tells him why his was accepted, maybe he tells him his his relationship with God, his true worship, and Cain knew he wasn't there and didn't want to live it, didn't think he could, and maybe that's why he rose up. It doesn't necessarily say why he why he slew his brother. Right. Something my thought in that.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

Yeah, what was their conversation?

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Boy, there's a lot here that's not said, huh?

SPEAKER_02 33:17

There is. I feel like verse seven, there's there's a lot said. Absolutely. Um implicitly. Yeah. I mean, he's God is telling him in in our terms, is you're living wrong. Yeah. Yeah. You're, I don't know if I guess sin would be the word.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

There's sin in your life. That's why that's why it's not accepted.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

I think this is an awesome place to leave this episode, and it it really doesn't we're still wrestling with it, right? Yeah. You're looking at motives. I want to pick up the next uh time we record on verse number uh seven. Verse number six and seven, and let's talk about how God responds and these questions that God asks. I think there's some pretty neat stuff that may uh come about in verse number seven. I really, really do appreciate the uh conversation. It's always great to be able to hear what God has to say.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Um this narrow road I've been traveling, and it gives me a purpose for my life. It's the reason it's gonna be my own.