Spaces: Iran, Hyperinflation, and Stablecoins - Has The Dollar Endgame Begun?

Bitcoin has touched $76,000 as the global landscape shifts under our feet. With the US and Israel at war and the energy markets in haywire due to the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, we are at a structural inflection point for the global financial system. 

In this session, Zach and the Peruvian Bull dive into why the "flight to safety" isn't leading to gold, but to Bitcoin. We discuss the massive influx of Iranian buyers using Bitcoin as an exit ramp from a weaponized SWIFT system and hyperinflation. 

The panel also tackles the rising threat of stablecoins—framing them as a "Central Bank Digital Currency" in disguise that governments will use to maintain relevance while banning true self-custody . We explore the "Spend and Replace" journey, why we need to meet Gen Z and women where they are with simple education, and the deep moral argument that Bitcoin is the only way to protest a system that prints money to fund endless war. 

With only 1 million Bitcoin left to be mined for the rest of time, the question is no longer "is it a bubble," but "how do we reclaim our sovereignty?". 

00:00 Intro — Bitcoin Between 71K-76K, Iran War, 20 Millionth Bitcoin Mined 

01:50 Panel Introductions 

02:00 Peruvian Bull: Bitcoin Up While Gold and Silver Dump 

05:00 Iranian Citizens Buying Bitcoin as an Exit Ramp 

07:36 Kyle: Bitcoin as a Protest Against War Funding 

10:18 The Privacy Debate — Is Bitcoin a Surveillance Trap? 

16:25 Adam on Silent Payments and Bitcoin's Programmable Privacy 

19:37 Fedemint and the Satoshi vs. Elon Privacy Analogy 

21:50 Alex's Wrench: Will Stablecoins Eat Bitcoin's Market? 

27:00 Stablecoins vs. Bitcoin — Different Assets or Real Competition? 

31:00 Bitcoin Puts Governments in Competition With Each Other 

34:00 Gresham's Law and Why Bitcoiners Don't Spend Their Bitcoin 

38:00 Who's Actually Using Bitcoin Day to Day? 

45:00 Lindsay: Two Types of Bitcoiners and the Journey Mindset 

49:00 What Is STRC and How Does It Fit In? 

50:30 Plug: The Adam O'Brien Show 

56:00 How Do We Onboard Gen Z and Women? 

1:02:00 Short Form vs. Long Form — What Actually Converts People? 

1:13:00 Bitcoin Is a Moral Issue, Not Just a Financial One 

1:16:00 Wrap Up 

#BitcoinGeopolitics #SoundMoney #FinancialSovereignty #BitcoinStandard #IranWar2026 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome everyone, I'm Zach. This is Bitcoin Wells Space for March 18th, 2026. Bitcoin has touched 76,000 and down to 71,000 in the last 48 hours. Legacy markets are shaking in anticipation of tomorrow's FOMC meeting. America and Israel are at war, and last week the 20th millionth Bitcoin entered circulation. One million Bitcoin left for the rest of time. Meanwhile, Washington is still debating whether to actually implement a strategic Bitcoin reserve while the hardest money ever created is running out. Honestly, still seems kind of unreal to me how far Bitcoin has come. So here's the question on the table tonight. Is this the dollar endgame or just the Bitcoin beginning? Are we watching the final parabolic leg of a cycle or is something more structural finally breaking down in real time? To help us think it through, we have quite the panel tonight of Bitcoin well alumni and people that have been analyzing this space for a long time. To help me host, I've got someone who's been calling the structural cracks in the fiat system long before most people knew what the hell was going on. The Peruvian Bull has been putting in the work for a long time. And tonight we're gonna ask for proof of that work as I pick his brain about the Bitcoin cycle, politics, and the war, the self-custody argument, and what comes next. So, Bull, if we've got everything figured out, I think I think you're connected. Uh you've watched this setup for years.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

The floor is yours, man. What what are we actually looking at right now? It's super cycle incoming. I need to know what is going on.

SPEAKER_06 1:50

Well, um, you know, the first news is it's good that Bitcoin isn't dead because I was told like 16 times in the last two months, three months that um it was over once we broke, you know, 70k on the downside.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I've heard that a couple times, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

Yeah, yeah. Um well I would say, I mean, we're at a really interesting inflection point, right? Um obviously the war in Iran is starting to evolve into a quagmire. Um the energy markets are kind of in in haywire over the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. Iran has begun reportedly mining the strait. Um and major countries like Japan and obviously the US have seen uh equity price uh decreases, and we've also seen gold and silver rapidly underperform since February 28th, which is when the war started, or quote unquote not war, right, since nothing was ever declared. Um and interestingly, in that time, Bitcoin is up, right? So since February 28th, I have it here on TradingView, Bitcoin's up 6.86%, um gold is down 10%, and silver is down over 15%. So um, you know, the the flight to safety hasn't really played out in the way that most people think. Um and I think the Bitcoin rally story is is due to a couple factors. Um one, obviously Bitcoin was in you could say like a bear market consolidation zone below 70k, and we were kind of just exhausting all the bears um trading in that range. And once we, you know, once the invasion of of Iran actually started and especially the cyber attacks to shut down their financial system, um, if you look at some of the on-chain data, like a lot of Iranians started buying Bitcoin because it was one of the few exit ramps, right, that people could use. Um, you know, that country has been facing changed sanctions uh from the US for years. Uh the US Treasury itself has been weaponizing the SWIFT um system uh via the uh Office of Foreign Assets Control, OFAC. Um, and that's made it very hard for Iranian citizens, uh especially you know, entrepreneurs, business people, to move money out. So the options have basically been, you know, you can buy gold and try to just like smuggle it out, um, or you could buy Bitcoin. And so I think part of the price action here is actually Iranian buying. Now, some people on Twitter were saying that uh that Iran mines a ton of Bitcoin and that the um the war has shuttered the energy markets in Iran so severely that that's um you know those miners have been shut off and then so we've seen reduced selling pressure. I looked into that, I don't think that's the case. I mean, if you look at hash rate, it's like barely down from when the war started, and we had a much deeper drawdown in hash rate um in early January or in late January, early February. So um I think the more compelling point here is that it's not only Iranians, but also just global investors starting to buy Bitcoin as a hedge against um geopolitical uncertainty. And clearly, like we still have a ways to go to reclaim you know the 120k highs. Uh I think we're still in a bear market. I'm not calling for any sort of huge rally tomorrow. But this kind of strength is very, very encouraging to me. I mean, this is this is what we want to see. We want to see big Bitcoin acting as a geopolitical hedge against uncertainty.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, it looks really good to me. And I want to say we have a big panel tonight too. So if anyone wants to jump in, I'll just do like a quick intro of everyone. We've got uh Lindsay Stamp at at Lindsay Bitcoin on. We have Houston, who's part of the marketing team with me at Bitcoin Well. We also have Adam O'Brien, the CEO of Bitcoin Well, and Kyle Huber of the We Are Satoshi podcast. So if anyone wants to jump in at any time, please feel free. We'll try not to talk over each other.

SPEAKER_06 5:42

Yeah, I wanted to just ask the panel, what do you guys think about you know the price action here, Bitcoin, Iran war craziness? Um yeah, anyone have any thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Hey, I mean, I'll jump in. Um, this is Lindsay. Um, well, first I just want to say I'm not a macro economist. I am a pleb. I am uh a regular uh Joe Blow. And um my opinion is is just just that. It's my opinion. I um I am impressed with the way that Bitcoin has held up. Um I actually kind of expected that we would um go down and continue to see new lows. Um, but one of the things that I think is in play this cycle that I don't think we've seen in the past is the absolute buy pressure that's coming from MicroStrategy, from Sailor, from STRC, from some of these products uh that are new to the market. And I think that um makes this potentially not a typical bear market. And I could be wrong. Um, you know, I think there's so much going on in the world currently. And I think that the the best course of action for most people is to stick to the plan, to continue buying at whatever cadence, whatever interval you typically buy at, um, to continue to have a long-term mindset to hold this asset for five, 10 plus years, um, if not longer, if not a forever hold, which I'm sure is a lot of people on this call. Um, and know that um Bitcoin has always recovered. It has always, you know, every downturn has been met with new all-time highs eventually, and that that time will eventually come at some point. And the people that weather the storm and continue to buy or continue to hold through this um will be rewarded. And that's that's my approach.

SPEAKER_08 7:36

Love that. I can uh I can jump in on that too. Um yeah, I think what what Roberto was was just talking about is the ethos of Bitcoin putting governments into competition with each other. I mean, how cool is it that the only option for a country, a country's citizens under attack, uh, you can have whatever opinion you want on the governments playing uh you know, bomb throwing back and forth, but like at the end of the day, it's always the citizens that suffer during during the war, right? And those citizens are completely cooked when their entire life savings are stuck in some kind of centralized, archaic, and awfully evil uh um money system. And it's I think it's amazing that the you know citizens can put their value into Bitcoin and then escape war-torn uh countries. I think there's like there's there's obviously you know two sides to that, but this is Bitcoin performing exactly as it should. I also think, in from my recollection, and Roberto, correct me if I'm wrong, but the last six months have showcased Bitcoin responding differently than it has in other times of volatility. Previously, when you know war gets you know, war gets stricken but not declared, it's Bitcoin to the red. Um and you noted it's Bitcoin to the green in response to that. And is that because you know of the Iranian buying? Not sure. Uh other factors, not sure. But it looks like Bitcoin could be um you know breaking out of this old kind of mindset here, which yeah, I find super interesting. I think people are finally looking at Bitcoin as the safe haven that it is. And to Lindsay's point, you know, whether it's long-term hold, whether it's a trade, whatever it is, Bitcoin's a part of the conversation now. Uh I I don't know about everyone on the call, but I can remember the day when people were calling for its you know, tulip bubble to pop, where you know people were wondering if it was even real. People were people weren't even sure if it was real um to begin with, or you know, whether or not it was even a viable conversation, let alone an asset to hold. And we are so far down the line here. You know, this this 17-year-old asset. I mean, Bitcoin, if it was a teenager, it could, it could barely drive, it can't vote, uh, it can't it can't drink alcohol, it can't get married, like it can't get a tattoo on its own. And here we are talking about it in the same conversation as gold, this like millennium, multiple millennium-old asset. Um, I think it's just absolutely amazing. And when you put that into perspective on how the world is changing, uh I there's there's no other team to be on right now other than Team Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_06 10:18

Wait, so you're you're you're telling me that uh you know Saylor's not gonna blow up tomorrow and Bitcoin's not gonna go negative?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Because that's that's literally what I that's what everyone's telling me, what? I think better tell them what you think about Saylor and blowing up.

SPEAKER_08 10:34

The more likely scenario is that uh Trump just assumes Saylor, he like calls in the CIA debt that's that he has on Sailor and uh and and they they just get to build their budget neutral uh million coin bitcoin reserve. But no, I I think even in that scenario though, it's like uh the hard supply cap is just in existence. And and you know, if if the US like let's be honest, the US already owns a million coins because Sailor can't sell those coins to anybody other than the US.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

I'll jump in really quick.

SPEAKER_07 11:11

You guys can hear me?

SPEAKER_06 11:12

I can hear you.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah, we got you, Kyle.

SPEAKER_07 11:13

Yeah, yeah, Adam, you got me fired up on just being on team Bitcoin, man. Like, I think a lot of people, I mean, at least myself, I'll speak for myself. We saw what happened with this war breaking out and being bitcoiners, like we know how brutal war is, we know how wars are paid for, we know it's just gonna hurt people. And so I had this moment, this day, maybe it was a day or two at the beginning of the war where I just felt like, man, like all the effort of all these people, pro-freedom, libertarians, Ron Paul comes to mind, just all these people for all these years putting all this effort so that we don't get in this situation and yet, and yet here we are. And so I've been struggling a little bit with just like, man, like, am I really like contributing my time and energy to a system that's just bombing kids on the other side of the world and actually like making life worse for Americans? And I think that's the beautiful thing about Bitcoin, right? Like, that is the only way to protest against what we're seeing right now is to take your time and energy out of that system into Bitcoin. That's what I'm just super bullish on, man, right now, because ultimately I think people find Bitcoin after they get red pilled. You know, you're not gonna find you're not gonna get orange pilled before you get red pilled. So what we're seeing right now is waking a ton of people up, not just on the war, I think um just across the board, uh, people are waking up, and I think that is a massive funnel to people to find Bitcoin as the solution here.

SPEAKER_06 12:31

The interesting thing that I saw, and this is something I retweeted or quote retweeted the other day, was like normies in Iran buying Bitcoin and like transferring it outside of the country to a to a wallet address that like a friend holds just as like a safe measure, right? And I have a I have a family friend who's Iranian, um one of my mom's close friends and friends and her whole family um is in Tehran, and they all bought Bitcoin for the first time like a week and a half ago, right? And these are people that are just normal people, right? Like doctors, lawyers, electricians, plumbers, um, they're all mostly blue-collar uh workers. And they had to research how to buy Bitcoin, how to how to, you know, get a wallet, how to set it up, how to send it to somebody that you know that you trust, right? Um, because they didn't want to store obviously their own value in their own in their own country, in their own domestic financial system at war. And that's not even to mention, right? There's right now essentially hyperinflation happening in Iran because of not only the war, but also the energy crisis that's unfolding in that region. So um anyone holding the domestic currency is getting absolutely obliterated. Um so you've got you've got to be out of it.

SPEAKER_08 13:41

Dude, and this is like Iran is not even the first, like this has happened many different times in many different countries with and without war. I think the war is obviously the highlight. It's like the uh the big, you know, the giant loud canary in the coal mine. But if you look throughout modern history, you had like, you know, Turkey, Cyprus, Greece, South Korea, you know, Venezuela, like all of these countries getting crippled and Bitcoin playing a very meaningful role in the normal citizens, the plebs, the their plebs, not even knowing that that that that they're plebs. And and Bitcoin is playing that meaningful role in their escape. And I I just love that we are able to pair financial uh uh benefits and and and financial gain with this gain of freedom. And I yeah, I struggle to find a different asset that can that can actually do that.

SPEAKER_06 14:34

Yeah, I totally agree, totally agree. Um yeah, I that's boring. You gotta disagree with me. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_08 14:42

How can I disagree with that?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Um just to step in real quick, too. That that was the first thing that got me excited about Bitcoin is that it's anarchy money. Like I I spent so many years like going down the rabbit hole of like how evil the government is and feeling like there is no hope, there's no way to disconnect from this thing that's sucking all of our value and funneling in funneling it into just pure evil. It's like this crazy demonic system. Um, and Bitcoin is like this little flower bursting up through the concrete that just gives us hope and gives us a possibility to break out of this for the first time. So to me, it's like so exciting to see where Bitcoin has gone, not just for me personally, but for like the world that it it does bring hope. Like that's become kind of a cliche thing. And even Sailor, he's got the hope website. But I mean, that Bitcoin is hope in such a huge way in my life, and yeah, it makes me excited.

SPEAKER_06 15:34

So one of the counter, and I I'll I'll say this just to be a contrarian and you know, throw some uh some wrenches in the cog here in the machine here. No, classic Caribbean guy, man.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

I have to be crazy.

SPEAKER_06 15:46

Um, one of the things I've seen repeated by a lot of bears on Twitter is that um Bitcoin is not anonymous, right? They're like, you have an address, everyone can see your address, everyone can see all the Bitcoin you make. Like the government could just track you. Therefore, this is a better like surveillance system than even the traditional fiat system because now everyone can see exactly how much you hold and how much you own. And so they're saying like this is the the next step to the new world order, and this is actually, you know, the evil coin. Bitcoin is not the escape route, it's the um it's the trapdoor, and everyone's gonna be be screwed by holding this. So uh I'm curious to hear what you guys would say to that.

SPEAKER_08 16:24

Dude, I okay, I'll jump in on this. I'm so passionate about this topic because I think financial privacy is obviously a right. Um, it is not a privilege. And I think that if you're worried about privacy, you're worried about obviously confiscation or like wrench attacks or kind of the theft is are the are are the two, which is basically just confiscation, I suppose. But the the cool thing about Bitcoin is that it's programmable, meaning you can we can literally we can consensus and build tools to make it more private. And and the coolest thing about that is that you have the opportunity to uh do that yourself. You can you can implement security protocols and privacy protocols yourself if you are technical enough. Or when that market is big enough, we're just going to see the entrepreneurs um do that for us. And in the free market of the world, um that's gonna cost next to nothing. A great example of that, and this is you know really funny that you brought this up, Roberto, because today we have our like uh we we have this this open claw agent.

SPEAKER_06 17:23

Sorry, I just muted the space accidentally so I can keep going, Adam. Sorry. Hey, can you count these?

SPEAKER_08 17:34

Oh yeah, sorry, that's my bad. I didn't realize I had to read click the button. Um so we have these open claw agents at at Bitcoin well, and one of them today was talking about silent payments and the new silent payments protocol and how it's a protocol that basically you have a it's kind of like lightning where you have the the public facing address, if you will, uh, but the underlying layer, so so that can be static, but then it distributes coins in like a s in like a a pseudo-seudo-anonymous way. Um and so I think that that is just once right there. There's the answer. Um, it has limited support right now, but as silent payments and the silent payments protocol increase in uh popularity, more and more wallets will support that. But then second to that, layer twos, which is kind of like proposed to be the spending layer of Bitcoin, are just already pretty anonymous. And I think that um we're the fact that Bitcoin is programmable and the fact that we are you know so decentralized means because fiat, you could argue, is also programmable, but it's so centralized to the evil ones that it doesn't really have an opportunity to be good because we've got the bad people that are programming it. But because Bitcoin is programmable and it's decentralized, um, I think we'd all agree, I mean you kind of have to agree if you're still living, that like more of the world, at least 51% of the world is good compared to 49% bad. And if as long as that remains true, uh, we will always program things to the good and for the benefit. And so the fact that Bitcoin is programmable and the fact that 51% of the world at least is still good and wants freedom, um, we're just like privacy is and will be forever solved with Bitcoin in a way that it cannot be with other types of money that either you cannot program or that are not decentralized.

SPEAKER_07 19:35

I think uh the privacy thing is is big. Can I jump in and make one comment on this? I was at the Bitcoin conference in Colombia in Medellin recently, and Obi from Fediment gave a talk. Um side note, just FedEMint is extremely cool, and I hadn't really explored it much um until then. But it's it as far as privacy goes, it's um it hits that and it solves a bunch of other problems. But he he had this whole talk about how privacy is key, and he used the analogy, he basically used the exam the analogy or the example of Satoshi. Satoshi has uh call it Satoshi versus like uh like a tri like a billionaire like an Elon Musk that's publicly known. So the difference is that they have the similar amount of money, Satoshi's whatever, 80, 100, 200 billion dollars, and Elon's the same. Satoshi doesn't have to hire security guards and spend all this money and have ultimately all this like power projection. Privacy basically gives you the same result without needing the secret service and a bunch of bodyguards and all this stuff. So just a just a cool example or or uh explanation of why privacy is so key and uh Obi's project project is is huge and the shipping a bunch of new stuff to um recognize.

SPEAKER_08 20:44

You should have told that to Roberto before he doxxed himself a few weeks ago or a few months ago. No, but that's that's a great point, man, and totally love that. I mean the pseudo-anonymous layer is No, I butchered the point.

SPEAKER_07 21:00

I totally butchered it, but basically, like Satoshi would be in court the rest of his life or just be targeted. 100%.

SPEAKER_08 21:07

No, you're I think you're bang on, man. I think that the pseudo-anonymous layer of Bitcoin is super there and available to anyone from day one. The fact that like the creator of this, you know, this is this is the greatest threat the governments have ever seen uh from a financial perspective. And the fact that the creator is anonymous and not actively being hunted or targeted is is pretty remarkable. And I think showcases you know the privacy um layers that are already built in.

SPEAKER_06 21:34

So I'm gonna throw in another wrench here. And I and I think Alex, who's uh who works with me, he's also wants to throw in a wrench because we want to get this discussion going, you know, get a little more interesting than just like you know, seven people in a room agreeing with each other uh on everything.

SPEAKER_05 21:49

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm here as a contrarian. Hello everyone. Um I wanted to talk about stable coins because in the last couple weeks, we've had I think two big things. With stable coins. We had Stanley Drakenmiller come out, and he was like, Yeah, all crypto is rubbish, but stable coins are the future. And then there was some rumor about Coinbase getting rid of the de minimis tax for Bitcoin, but they want to give all like they're providing yield now on stable coins. Are we not concerned that like stable coins are just gonna completely eat Bitcoin's market? And I've heard Brent Johnson make similar points to this.

SPEAKER_08 22:28

I'm happy to jump in on that if someone else can.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 22:31

I'm just gonna real quick start.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Sorry, it's quite the wrench. It's a completely different market. You know, it's like stable coins are just an extension of fiat, so they have all the same problems and issues as fiat. So that would just be my quick quick answer is that they're after completely different things. Like I don't think it's a competition at all.

SPEAKER_05 22:51

So because I saw some rumor, I don't know if this is 100% true, and I am trying to be the contrarian in order to make this interesting. But the sorry, sorry, yeah. But the people in, you know, I think I saw some people in Dubai when they were, you know, trying to get out and they were panicking, whatever, they were putting a lot of money in stable coins. And I think Luke Roman retweeted this chart of like stablecoin usage like during the Iran like takeoff. And so although like I do see the point that Bitcoin is obviously like in terms of its characteristics is different, the use case, there is significant overlap in terms of kind of holding a bearer asset. Like I know it's not a full bearer asset, but with this kind of exorbitant, exorbitant demand for dollars like overseas, does that not like play a big risk to Bitcoin? And by the way, I'm a Bitcoiner, as you can see, I've got laser eyes in the profile. I'm just throwing in the wrench. The laser eyes the proof.

SPEAKER_08 23:41

No, it's a good wrench, man. And I think it's an important discussion. I think the laser or the laser eyes, the way that people um flock to stable coins, um, that definitely could compete with you know the short-term look at Bitcoin. Uh it's it's a partial bearer asset, we'll call it, which is, you know, let's just be honest, much better than a no-bearer asset, which we have in the dollars that are trapped in your Fidelity account or whatever. However, I don't think anyone is looking at stable coins and thinking, oh yeah, I'm gonna gift this to my grandson. And I think that that difference in in mindset is kind of where I would differentiate stables against against Bitcoin. Stables solve a real problem. And they solve a problem for Iranians, they solve a problem for uh people in Mexico, they solve a problem for basically anyone. Like you Americans have it really good being attached to the to the Swift system, but the Swift system sucks. And it sucks for international. And removing all those barriers in it, if if I was an XRP card, then I think I would probably uh be more worried about stable coins than I am as a Bitcoiner. I think though the second step to that is understanding that stable coins, to Zach's point, only help you access money that is crippling, money that is corrupt, money that is funding wars, money that is uh trapped uh and and held in control of the president and the central bank. And I don't know that that's a long-term play. I think that certainly on the short-term horizon, there's um an asset there, or not an asset, a money-moving system that exists there. But still, like the US dollar is failing. Not because its rails can't be updated. Like, let's be honest, you could update the Swift Rails and well, the government could do it in two years, and any reasonable human could do it in two months. And I think that the rails aren't what's holding fiat back. It's the$40 trillion in debt, it's the infinite print, it's the fact that the monetary system at the base layer is completely broken and mismanaged. And no one's buying a stable peso or a stable, like who wants a stable Venezuelan peso? Nobody.

SPEAKER_05 26:08

I am with you 100%. The only thing about like an example of this is I'm a university student, and a lecturer asked me the other day, why don't I do a startup and build a a pound stable coin? And I told him why it wouldn't work and why it would suck. Um, and he looked at me with disdain, as most of my lecturers do as a Bitcoiner and then being Keynesian economist. But you know, in the UK, it was just announced today that they're just banning like self-custodied stable coins because they're really concerned about them. Yeah, but they're not banning self-custody Bitcoin, which is really interesting. Yeah, I think like the that's coming though.

SPEAKER_08 26:45

Like that, I mean, we actually Bitcoin Well bought a Bitcoin ATM company in the UK in 2021. And and we had to unwind the purchase. I put in this like nuclear clause basically, which allowed us to unwind the purchase if anything crazy happened. And like two months after we bought it, the government literally made Bitcoin ATMs quasi-illegal. Like you couldn't spend more than 450 pounds per month or something based on the on the crazy rules. And I think the UK government is gonna eventually ban self-custody. Like they don't want bearer assets, right? Because bearer assets can leave, as we're just talking about. And the future of that is going to be Bitcoiners leaving the UK, not flocking to the UK. Or at a bare minimum, no, no new Bitcoiners are going to a spot where they can't self-custy their Bitcoin. And I think this is a guess, but I don't think it's uh too big of a logical leap that Bitcoiners will leave the UK and they'll go to the country that's embracing them with open arms. This is kind of what we mean when we say Bitcoin puts governments in competition with each other, is that we've got roughly 200 nations around the world. One of them has to be like, hello, I wouldn't mind some wealthy, you know, Bitcoiners. What can I do to attract them? And it's like, I just have to let them hold their Bitcoin and they're gonna be and you know, not nuke them on taxes and they're gonna be happy here. Oh, yeah, sure. I can do that. And I think that that natural free market that exists uh is what will cripple these draconian, Keynesian style governments like uh like the British government, like the Canadian government, the Australian government, you know, and and soon the American government. Um I, you know, whether it be under obviously not under Trump's reign, but Trump's out in a couple years, unless he does a third-term, you know, craziness, which would be amazing and hilarious all at the same time. Um so I think yeah, it's Bitcoin is and will be what Bitcoin is and will be forever, regardless of you know, the UK banning Bitcoin or China doing it once again or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 28:51

Damn, I'm getting cooked there. Wow. Good job. No, no, no. I'll still on Alex's side. I deserve it. I deserve it.

SPEAKER_07 29:02

I I'll support you a little bit, Alex. I think it's gonna be hard to turn down the stable coins when they're coming at you for free in the form of a UBI. It's gonna be like you know, uh a carrot in a stick approach, right? So it's if you want free money, then you use stable coins. So I think they're gonna try and sweeten the deal. I mean, all we're already seeing Bitcoiners pressured to sell their Bitcoin, right? That's what we're seeing right now. Is you know, how do we get you to loan, take a loan, access the liquidity without selling your Bitcoin? I hear this on everybody's podcast, and it just makes me sick because everybody who just did that for the last year at the top of the bull at the top of the bull market is now hating themselves, stressed out when Bitcoin, the whole point of it, is to let us live our lives and not be stressed about it. Such a good take, man.

SPEAKER_08 29:45

And just to build on that, Bitcoiners, everyone listening, you have to know the history, you have to be aware of the um the consequen the the what am I looking for? Not consequence. The c where they take it away, they steal it. I just said it. I can't think of the word right now. It's in my team. Thank you, thank you. Good grief. Um, the confiscation tax that they use, like executive order 6102 was exactly that. You know, give us your gold, we'll pay you a premium. Um, and then what they didn't say was we're gonna we're gonna devalue the gold or revalue the dollar um uh just just two short years later so that we have all the benefit. And the same thing is going to happen. They're going to give you a premium for your Bitcoin in self-custody, they're going to give it to give you that premium in a dollar that they can infinitely print. And you know, we couldn't see it at the time, or at least I hope we couldn't see it at the time, because if we could, that would be dumb. But in 1913, they were clearly setting themselves up for Bretton Woods in 1940, which again clearly set everything up for removing the gold standard in 1971. And I mean, WTF happened in 1971. And so you have to look at the long con at the long game of these demonic folks in charge that just want to separate you from your value, and we have to be on the lookout for that.

SPEAKER_06 31:00

Totally. And I I have more stuff I want to add, but I want to give some time for Lindsay or Halston or Bitcoin rad to uh jump in on their thoughts on you know stable coins versus Bitcoin. Um, yeah, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, Conrad just jumped in. Feel free.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Oh, hey Conrad, what's up? I'll jump in real quick. I think, listen, you guys know I'm a Bitcoiner. Um, I love Bitcoin. I that's what I hold the most of. Um I I'll push back a little bit. I think that stable coins are actually one of the best on-ramps for Bitcoin because think about someone who's never touched crypto or or Bitcoin or any other uh digital asset, but they hold uh, say, Tether, they're already crossing a tough psychological barrier. They've already moved their money off the traditional banking system. They understand wallets. And so from so going from a stablecoin to Bitcoin, I feel like that's just something that we don't talk about enough. I think that that's gonna be big for Bitcoin. Obviously, as an American, I don't really have a use case for stable coins. And so I get it. I I do think that stable coins are beneficial for um international folks. But yeah, I mean, I don't think that stable coins are still my favorite thing ever. I think that they could turn into like a C BDC type situation. So yeah, I mean, those are my thoughts on that. But purest form of Bitcoin, buying Bitcoin and self-custing, take it off the exchange, put it in cold storage. And if you buy from Bitcoin Well, shameless plug, you don't even have to keep it on the exchange, it just goes to your wallet.

SPEAKER_08 32:26

So hey yo, trained well.

SPEAKER_06 32:30

Can I buy can I buy stable coins on Bitcoin well?

SPEAKER_08 32:33

No, you can't. We're actually we're actually I I would like to accept stable coins um and and send people Bitcoin. Like I think that that instant swap could be cool. Uh to Halston's point, like the technological psychological barrier getting into a kind of quote unquote seed phrase environment, um, and then helping people move to to Bitcoin that way would be would be awesome. But no, you can't do any of that on Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Well, do you guys think we're gonna do that? One final thing to say about uh stable coins, real quick. Sorry, but just this is my final quote. The success of stable coins are proof that Bitcoin has already won and that governments are desperately using Bitcoin's marketing of digital cash to try and stay relevant as we flip the game on them entirely.

SPEAKER_08 33:19

Good take.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Good take. Take that, Alex.

SPEAKER_06 33:23

But I mean, there is obviously just again again be uh contrarian, right? Um if we want to have Bitcoin become a medium of exchange and not just a store of value, because right now what it is, I mean, if we're being honest, it's a store of value right now, right? Um Lightning transactions last year was like$13 billion USD, and stablecoin total transactions was like north of$20 trillion.

SPEAKER_08 33:44

So it's still those$20 trillion though, that's a little bit inflated because it's it's through exchanges as well. Um like stable coins, the number one use for stable coins is for exchanges to send money back and forth. Like from Coinbase to Kraken or from Gemini, like the settlement layer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. This like the final settlement layer. So I think that number's a little bit inflated, but but$13 billion is a hourly rounding error. Let's be honest. Like it's it's not, yeah, it's it's it's not a viable form of payments.

SPEAKER_06 34:16

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's my concern is that like, you know, Bitcoin right now is it's proven out the sore value thesis very well, right? Um, but people aren't using it, or not you know, nobody's using it. Of course, people use it. I still use it, I want to use it, but most Bitcoiners and a lot all obviously almost all normies are not using it in their day-to-day life to like buy and sell things. And um we need to overcome that Gresham's law of resistance, right? That like uh that force, the economic force that pushes people into hoarding an asset that's going up in value and not using it as a monetary good when it is monetary good. So um, you know, we have that headwind to overcome, I think, in the future.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

I think that's a great point for on the negative side too, that that gives us a fire under our ass as Bitcoiners to like get the UX, get the user experience down and and better, because that is something that you know the government is good at, is just, oh, it feels good, it's easy to use, so why not just use this thing? Even if Bitcoin is objectively better, it might not be uh as frictionless as some of these other systems like stable coins.

SPEAKER_08 35:20

Yeah, man. It's again, just so you build on that, it's it's one more lie or one more thing that the Keynesians will say about Bitcoin. This is the this is the LARP or the the FUD, is that people don't spend deflationary assets. And so the the economy goes into a state of of hoarding um and economic activity stalls when you um when you have a deflationary asset as the base monetary layer. This is why they told us gold didn't work. And we have Sailor literally perpetuating this lie. Never spell your Bitcoin. I spend, you know, on Bitcoin Pizza Day, I use fiat instead of Bitcoin, yada yada yada. Uh we need to, as Bitcoiners, we need to prioritize spending our Bitcoin in a spend and replace type of environment. Um, I think is very, very, very important.

SPEAKER_06 36:06

What do you think about here's another idea, right? Like would it and I wish so Reardon Code was gonna come up uh and talk, but he said unfortunately he's traveling. Um and so he was gonna be like the technical person that's gonna ask him this. But um I'd be curious, like if I mean since Bitcoin's programmable, especially the the L2s, couldn't you build stablecoin infrastructure on top of Bitcoin and then just have everything secured you know on Lightning and then uh have the USD USDC or USD dollars like wrapped up in some bank account that's audited somewhere and you'd still obviously have a a third party and some centralized custodian, but I'd rather be doing that kind of a stable coin that's at least secured with Bitcoin and using the network than uh what we're doing now, which is just uh ETH, you know, ETC20 or some sort of like shit coin infrastructure.

SPEAKER_08 36:55

I think stables on Bitcoin already exist. Um they're there, they're just in such low, low demand. Like the ETH, the the ETH network um kind of just almost works better. Uh like I I don't know why you'd wrap honestly, I don't I don't understand wrapping like Bitcoin is not Bitcoin is not an easy network to send on. It is far too decentralized and far too secure um to allow for people to have the same convenience that they want when they think about digital payments. I think the reason we would suffer through using Lightning is because we don't trust any other monetary layer that exists out there. Um Jolt's is a great example of this. I think Jolt's actually like they're in the midst of just you know kind of going away. Um they they with Tether announced a wallet that was gonna have USDT over Lightning in their wallet app, and they couldn't get any funding. They couldn't find a VC to fund the project. All the Bitcoin VCs, uh, you know, all the traditional VCs, Tether themselves, just they they couldn't get the the money to to build the infrastructure out. I don't think anyone's excited about quote unquote building on Bitcoin. And and honestly, I I don't mind that. I think that's a hit short term, but I think it's a benefit long term because we're gonna end up with a network that is laser focused on on Bitcoin and on the true end goal, end game asset, not a network that's just cluttered with um you know a bunch of centralized stable coins replacing the failing system that we already have. So I think it's a feature and not a bug that Bitcoin is difficult to build on because it means only viable and good payment networks will get built. And when you define viable and good, i if you're if you're coupling both asset viability and network viability, Bitcoin is the only one that needs that.

SPEAKER_06 39:06

Yeah, yeah, no, I I agree. I just think um I think obviously we have some ways to go to uh to prove out not only the store value thesis, but also like the actual medium of exchange. Because until we reach um, you know, asset you know, the asset as a maturity, like as a mature asset class, um I don't know what you'd call that, asset maturity cap or like you know, the total basically Bitcoin filling the TAM that it's supposed to fill, right? Whether that's a hundred trillion or two hundred trillion or whatever it is, up until it gets to that point, people are gonna be resistant on actually spending it because their logic is gonna be, hey, why would I spend my Bitcoin today when it's gonna go up 20% next year and 20% the year after that? So like I'm gonna make more money by spending the fiat and saving the Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_08 39:51

Well, but the logic, the logic would be, why are you holding fiat? Like if fiat goes down 10%, like anyone that says that they spend fiat just tells me that they aren't all in on Bitcoin. And there's a and there's a there's a real reason not to spend Bitcoin. It's because the money goes in and out of your hands in a short time frame. Like if you if you're earning money Thursday and you're spending it Friday, Bitcoin is an unnecessary middleman. The US dollar at this point is not eroding in 24 hours. But you know, the the Venezuelan, like they experienced that. And if you look back through history, there are many countries that experience hyperinflation on a 24-hour period. You look back throughout history, in I think it was Ireland, um, on a Friday night, they would go into the bar and order all of their beer at 5 p.m. Because by 9 p.m. it was more expensive, like in in in ancient like hyperinflationary times. And so Bitcoin is very useful in those scenarios. And as the US dollar gets closer and closer to extinction, I mean, how much longer do you have? Do you have 10 more years where the US dollar is not hyperinflationary on a on a kind of an astronomical basis? Is it 20 years? At some point, if we think the US dollar goes away, we don't just wake up one day like, oh wow, it's gone. Okay, I guess we just move on. It's like it's gonna see a period of insane turbulence and volatility. And at that point, Bitcoin's, you know, ironically, stability will be on display.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

Yeah, on that point, uh, when Austria and Germany had their massive hyper inference uh hyperinflationary crises in like the 20s and like yeah, in the 1920s, it wasn't like a steady stream up, like when we see all those long-term charts, it was rocking up, it was like settling back down, which means it was like gaining maybe hundreds or two hundreds of percentage in a day, but it was net like week over week, month over month, inflating at like tens or thousands or millions of percentage points, like just insane hyperinflation, but it feels so rocky in that moment.

SPEAKER_08 41:49

Yeah, so like to your point, you know, why would I spend my Bitcoin going up 20% next year? It's like the other, it's it's the other side of the conversation. Why am I holding fiat? It's going down 80% this month, and and that's a reality for many currencies throughout history. And is it a reality for the US dollar in our lifetime? I mean, your bank balance will tell you what you think about that, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Well, that that connects back to what we were talking about at the beginning, too, is just how evil the government is, and I I don't want to participate in that at all. So, like that, I've lived on a Bitcoin standard now for five, four or five years where almost all of my wealth is in Bitcoin. I only convert to fiat on a month-to-month basis what I need to pay my bills, and if I can pay my bills directly in Bitcoin, that's what I do. But I don't I don't I want to hold as little of this demon evil money as I possibly can and hold the Bitcoin because that's how I sleep soundly at night, you know.

SPEAKER_06 42:43

Okay. Well, question for question for the panel then how many people are using Bitcoin on like a decently regular basis to buy and sell things like in real life, like going and buying a coffee or something.

SPEAKER_08 42:56

Uh go ahead, Connor.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

Honestly, once every two weeks, uh, I organize a meetup here, and there's another meetup that I attend as well, and they they they they accept Bitcoin at these places, but most of these meetups, it this this Bitcoin that's being accumulated is kind of like cash going under the drawer, you know, kind of like money being there in the backyard. It's like a separate savings account almost. But it's not like their entire supply chain accepts Bitcoin. Their employees, even if they accept Bitcoin, you know, the landlords for these employees probably don't. Or, you know, the next restaurant that these employees are buying food from or buying sneakers from. So it still kind of breaks down that widespread level. We still don't have everyone wanting to accept Bitcoin just yet. And that's that's one of the things I've noticed with spending Bitcoin for the folks that are willing to still accept it.

SPEAKER_08 43:43

Yeah, it's a sad reality. I think though the ripples are seismic. Um, you know, in your town, you probably have two or three places that accept. And if those two or three get two or three, I mean that's the classic pyramid scheme uh idea. I think, I mean, I saw today is Jack not turning on. On Bitcoin payments by default on Square merchants. They're obviously going to be auto-converting into dollars. I don't think Square is crazy enough to force everyone to start just, you know, holding uh holding Bitcoin. Do it directly. But I think you know, the opportunity is going to be there. I I personally I love using Bitcoin. Um use it everywhere I can. I pay my credit cards with Bitcoin. Um so I go around tapping fiat, I suppose, and then I and then I get rid of that uh that debt with with with Bitcoin. Um But I I I think the better the better question is you know certainly how many of us are spending Bitcoin, but it's what are we doing to empower Bitcoin to be able to be spent. And we all live in different cities. I think it's deeply important that we you know start finding the merchants that are maybe red pilled but not orange pilled or that are orange pilled and don't don't know where to go. And just you know, setting up a meetup, setting up like just being a part of being an active participant in the in the community is is just so deeply important.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Yeah, now I'll jump I'll jump in on the oh sorry.

SPEAKER_06 45:14

No, go ahead. I was gonna ask you guys if you Yeah, go ahead, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Yeah, I was just gonna say like I'll jump in on this. I I do um feel like I I don't use Bitcoin as much as I probably should as money and as payment. I do pay for things with Bitcoin, like my phone bill, and I've paid people in Bitcoin. Um, but I think there's like two different ways that Bitcoiners live their life and see Bitcoin. And I think one of them is the way that Adam, you you kind of alluded to where you have all your wealth in Bitcoin, and I think um, you know, you have all of all of your wealth is in Bitcoin, and then every month when you need fiat, you might sell a little piece of it to buy whatever it is that you need to buy or pay a bill. And then I think that there's other people that have a good portion of their wealth in Bitcoin, but they hold like fiat and other assets because their life is not set up to have 100% of their wealth in Bitcoin and sell some monthly. Like, and I'll and I'll kind of go down this rabbit hole. Like if I'm somebody that bought Bitcoin in 2012, for example, or 2015, and I've had all my wealth into Bitcoin, like it's appreciated so much that, you know, if you need to sell a little piece today to pay a bill or to buy something, you have no problem doing that because you're up like an insane amount. But if you're somebody that has found Bitcoin in the last year and you put a bunch of money into Bitcoin in the last year, you're down on that currently. And a lot of people don't want to sell their Bitcoin when they're down 40% or 50% to pay bills when they earn fiat and they can just use that fiat to pay for things and then save the leftover amount in Bitcoin. And so I think myself, like at least how I view my personal earnings and my wealth, is like I earn fiat every single day. I work multiple jobs, I'm paid. I take that fiat that I get, I pay my bills, and then I save the rest in Bitcoin. And I use some of these financial products like STRC, which is a financial product that I think is super interesting that I like for my short-term fiat funds, like money that I'm gonna use to spend in the short term in the next three months. Like, I don't want that for me personally to be sitting in Bitcoin and have us have a 50% correction. And when I need to use those funds on something, have to take a loss on my Bitcoin to do so. I would much rather like earn money, pay my bills, save the rest in Bitcoin and have that as like a long-term savings, a long-term outlook. And if if I was in the position where I was up 600% on my Bitcoin in the last, you know, few years, I feel like I might feel differently about that. But since I just started buying Bitcoin in 2023, like it's I look at it a little bit differently to the point where I'm not 100% of my wealth in Bitcoin. And I think there's a lot of people that are in that same boat.

SPEAKER_08 47:56

I think that's a great take.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

I think that's very well said.

SPEAKER_08 47:59

Do it's a journey. I think that everyone, if you start, if you start in 2026, it's probably a two-cycle journey, a two-epoch journey. And each each year that passes, you know, your wealth kind of fluctuates, but over the macro, the long term, more of your wealth ends up in Bitcoin, not because you're stacking harder, but because the fruits of your labor from stacking last epoch are just worth more. And if like what you just said, Lindsay, is bang on. It's spend what you earn and save the rest. And that save the rest component just eventually ends up being all of your net worth. Because that's just the nature of Bitcoin. Whether it's two cycles or three cycles or five cycles, who knows at this point. Um, but eventually that that kind of flips and it's just uh it's a low time preference waiting game. So I think that's the right attitude. And yeah, for people should like, yeah, have that journey mindset.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

No, I agree. I think what Lindsay, what you said, you you articulated that really well, especially for someone like me. Like I also started buying in 2023. I'm also 23 years old and I'm trying to build wealth. And spending an appreciating asset on coffee doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Um, and I think like what you said about stretch, like we have these incredible products built on top of Bitcoin that allow us to park our short-term cash and those funds for three, six months uh instead of potentially stomaching, you know, some crazy drawdown. Um so yeah, I don't really spend Bitcoin as much as probably some of the rest of the people in this on this panel right now. But I think, Adam, to your point, it's definitely a journey. And like after a few cycles, then you know, maybe I'll feel differently. And once you know, I'm up some crazy number, then yeah, my life would only be getting cheaper.

SPEAKER_06 49:48

What's what's CRC for I mean, I I've heard of it, um, and I haven't really done research into it. Can you guys explain what it is?

SPEAKER_00 49:54

And it's a perpetual preferred that strategy is offering. Uh it's currently at 11.5% um ROC and they pay dividends monthly. So really interesting product. Um SATA is kind of similar. SATA is like definitely a bit more risky, I would say, than Stretch, but it's basically the same thing. Uh SATA is offered by Strive. Um, I actually I see Adam Livingston here, if you want to come up too. He's a huge stretch nerd and strategy uh fan.

SPEAKER_07 50:29

Let me just say one thing because I can't let me just jump in before we talk more about that stuff. This is all awesome, and I think it's a great conversation. I have this conversation with a lot of people. It it it basically like uh how do I say it? Like, we're this conversation is still measuring from the fiat system, right? And so if if you understand, I think like Adam, at least for me, it's less about how long you've been in Bitcoin and how much your Bitcoin has appreciated, and more just like understanding where we're moving from a technological standpoint, we're moving to a Bitcoin standard world. And so for me, it's in my economic interest to spend the Bitcoin because then I'm empowering the merchants that accept that Bitcoin to you know for there to be more of those. And then those people, their first interaction with Bitcoin is accepting it as well. So that was the last thing I'll say is like once you start earning Bitcoin, it's no longer this thing that you're buying. Now you're like, okay, cool, I can just spend this. This is just my money. Because at the end of the day, my I I subscribe more to like spend and replace because you're you can literally, it's the same thing. Like you spend$10 on lunch or whatever, it's the same exact thing as spending and replacing it with the Bitcoin. So um, if you're fearful about like not having Satoshis, just like replace those things, spend the Bitcoin with the merchants that you want to persist into the future because the people that hold Bitcoin are gonna those businesses are gonna succeed. So just a quick thought.

SPEAKER_06 52:00

Oh, Kyle. I think you should be used. Um but it it'd be a product like where you just you know upload a Bitcoin balance um and then you just spend it down and then upload it again, and it would be like a way to uh use you know Bitcoin as like an on-ramp for other merchants and vendors because they would be now receiving Bitcoin and they'd have to learn how to self-custody and you know manage UTXOs and all that all that jazz. Um yeah, no, that's that's a good point. Um you know, especially something that if it was like automated, because that's the biggest problem is is uh explaining all this stuff. Like if you get a normie in here and they're like listening to Halston talk about STRC or Adam talk about like the Weimar collapse or like uh you know me talking about UTXLs or whatever, they'd be like, what what what's going on? I don't understand. Um so we need to make this way more user-friendly for like the average Joe and the average Jane. Go ahead, Kyle. Your hands still low. Or it is did you mean to lower it?

SPEAKER_07 53:00

Oh yeah, no, a hundred percent. I mean that's that's just something. It's like all this like fiat nonsense just confuses people that are trying to get into Bitcoin. Hey, grab a debit card and you swipe it and you can stack more. Like uh like I I use fold card, like I I get it, like you know, a couple extra free sats, but I think a lot of this stuff just confuses people, like um kind of just like gets them away from the fundamentals. And the last thing I'll say is like if you don't ever use Bitcoin, how do you have any bullishness about the future? Like you're you just hold it as like a pet rock, as like as a number on a screen, you don't even use it, and then you think it's gonna take over the world. Like for me, that just doesn't like add up. And so I always recommend people spend it just to experience like how easy it is, just on lightning directly, not with like a debit card and a conversion at squares, like actually go spend. And here's my plug right here. One of my favorite ways to spend Bitcoin is a company called Born to Be Free. It's a couple, they're based in New Jersey, they sell tallow soap. Uh, like I got my girlfriend a bunch of Christmas gifts with it. And instead of like buying big soap products at the store where you're supporting like destroying your own health and the environment, you use Bitcoin and you uh buy directly from a family-owned business.

SPEAKER_06 54:11

So totally, totally. I love that. And also, Zach, we had some people request to speak. I think you denied them, but Matt Dynes, we should let up. Um, and potentially, oh dang, looks like someone else was requesting and they're gone now. But uh there's some other people in the audience we wanted to bring up.

SPEAKER_08 54:28

But well, we get them up. I just want to point out Kyle's huge flex of saying he has a girlfriend in the bear market. That's that's pretty crazy on a Bitcoin space. That's pretty wild. Good for you, Kyle.

SPEAKER_06 54:39

Out of out of it, it's so funny because when I went to my first Bitcoin conference in 23, it was like 95% male, you know. And then the 2025 one is like everybody has a girlfriend, and I'm just like, dude, what the hell? I think this next year uh a lot of breakups happening.

SPEAKER_08 54:55

So lots of breakups, man. It's gonna be uh it's gonna be another, you know, Bitcoin 2026, huge sausage fest. Um, but I think there's more women working in Bitcoin now, which I'm bullish on. So that'll be uh that'll be another differentiating layer, I think.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Hell yeah. Let's go.

SPEAKER_08 55:12

Shout out Halston, shout out Lindsay, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Shout out Chantel too. Shout out Telly.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

But we love her. Real quick, Robert, I'm not sure who's supposed to come on or not, but I think a bunch of people invited after you saw it.

SPEAKER_06 55:24

Okay, no, these these these accounts I don't know. I was just talking about Matt Dynes. Um, and then there's another guy that uh that was requesting. Um but yeah, I'll if he comes back, I'll I'll I'll approve him up. Uh don't don't deny Matt Dynes. He's a he's a great speaker.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

Yeah, and I just want to say real quick too, like I totally agree. Yeah, I didn't start out, you know, 100% in Bitcoin or living on a Bitcoin standard by any means. Like it's a it's a process. Like you have to start small, learn how it works. Um, I'm also a bit of a psychopath and maybe a little bit retarded. Um, and I I hate the government, so I wanted to go all in as soon as I could, uh, you know, and I wouldn't expect everyone to do that, you know. A little a little bit of that is me throwing caution in the wind and saying, F it, you know, I've seen what Bitcoin can do over the past 10 years, and I don't want to be in fiat anymore. And I I wouldn't expect everyone to jump to that conclusion, you know, right away, and I wouldn't fault them for that, you know. Like you need to do what you need to do for your own finances and your own situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:25

Well, okay, so how do we how do we get more uh normies in, Jen and Gen Z and and women in? What do you guys Halston and uh Lindsay? How we how do we get the message out there? Because again, it's unfortunately it's a sausage fest right now, it's pretty bad.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Yeah, I feel like I'll speak on this real fast, just because I feel like Adam and I talk about this all the time. We gotta be meeting people where they're at, right? So we can't go to you know a platform like Instagram or TikTok and start talking about self-custody and SHA 256 and all these like super technical things. I feel like especially with Gen Z, like unfortunately, they have really suffered from brain rot and they just like don't have the attention span for this. So we have to really start at like just a more high level with a more high level approach. And like Adam and I were just talking about this earlier today. For Instagram, we we have to focus on short form content that first lays out the situation, lays out because that's like a lot of people don't even realize like the financial landscape and economic landscape that we're even in. So you gotta start with that. After you've done that, then you gotta start with like high-level Bitcoin 101, especially for those kind of plant platforms. I think on X, we're on we're in this like echo chamber where we kind of just assume everybody already knows what we're talking about, and that is true. But I think, especially with women, like that can be kind of daunting and just not super intriguing. And so I think just like first kind of validating the emotion, like, hey, you are experiencing anxiety and um all these things because of XYZ. Say the money is broken, we've been in this system for 50 years, and like those emotions are completely valid, and then kind of explaining um like what a solution could be being Bitcoin, and you don't even have to really mention Bitcoin. Um, I was my fiance and I went to dinner the other day with my hairdresser and her boyfriend, and we were talking about how she's just like not really interested in learning about Bitcoin or really interested in anything her boyfriend has to say crypto related, because it just like goes over her head. And you know, I went to her for a hair appointment the other day, and I'm like explaining to her, hey, like, don't you wish that you could actually find a decent apartment in downtown Austin for a decent price and not feel like your rent is just skyrocketing every single quarter, every every year, every few years? And she's like, Yeah, totally. I'm like, Do you know why that is? It's like because they keep printing money and they keep making everything more expensive. Then she was like starting to get it. And so I feel like you really just have to approach Bitcoin education like just more personalized and more uniquely than just like the typical Bitcoin maxi Bitcoin bro, you know, Twitter guy. You know what I mean? So I feel like that's definitely a big part of it. Um, getting more Gen Zers involved is also just like, I feel like such a similar case. You kind of just have to explain the broken financial system, the morally broken financial system, if you will, explain the economic landscape, explain where we're headed. And I think most Gen Zers will agree that they've suffered immensely and they've really felt the pain of it. And so, yeah, it's not like we don't understand the tech. Like I think a lot of people understand the tech. We grew up in a very digitally native environment, and you know, we're accustomed to digital payments like Venmo. So I don't think that's really a hurdle compared to say the boomers. But yeah, I'll let Lindsay you touch on that.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

No, I completely agree with everything you said. I feel like that was really well said. I think um if people don't understand the problem that Bitcoin solves, they're not gonna know why they need it. You know, if they if they don't understand that um our dollars are are going down in value or being devalued, and that's part of the system, it's like we we say broken money, but really it's not broken. It's operating just exactly as it was designed to do. And if people don't understand that, you know, I I've framed it like this like, you know, you think about the the 2000s, you know, you needed, or the 1990s, you needed one person in the household working a full-time job and you could support a family. And then 10 years later, you needed both both people in the household um working a full-time job to support a family. And now you need two people in the household working a full-time job and somebody with a side hustle or or a part-time job. And in the future, you're gonna need two people working a full-time job, two side hustles, a part-time job, and just to support a family, and that's a never-ending cycle. Um, and it really, it really comes down to the fact that wages aren't keeping up with inflation and people are being left behind. The people that are the wage earners, the people that don't own assets are being left behind every single day. And the in the gap between the rich and everybody else is getting wider by the day. And if people don't understand that that is the problem, they don't understand why Bitcoin is necessary or how it's different or what it can solve. And so I think starting with that high level is the most important and then working your way down to solutions.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

Yeah, no, I think that's so well said. What you just said is something that we need to place a greater emphasis on. If people don't understand the problem, they are never going to see the solution ever. So very well said.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:36

Should we be making uh should we all be making brain rot TikToks on uh Bitcoin now? Is that is that the new alpha? I think that that's uh stop the new alpha.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

No, go look at Adam's Instagram. We do like sit-down interview style videos, and they're actually really good. Um, and like some of them have popped off. So everyone go follow him on IG.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

I've also your content prove. Your content to start doing some of the dances. That's what I heard on TikTok.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:04

No, man, I gotta learn from you, Brandon. You're the you're the one with the rhythm. You've been spending the time in Latin America.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

Hey, don't tell anybody, dude. All right, don't dox me too much. I honestly I am uh I mean I'm ride or die for for long form content. I think like uh to get to like keep going from this, I think um when you look at like the two different platforms, like in or I guess three, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, uh, I mean, these platforms kind of tell you how much like an advertisement is worth, which means like how much the they view as the the viewer, I guess, so to speak. Um so like Google pays the creators a lot more for um you know a thousand views than like TikTok or Instagram. And I think that's because like when you're like as you guys are describing this, like you're not gonna learn about Bitcoin in like, you know, one minute. It's very hard to put together all of the benefits of just you know buying Bitcoin or spending Bitcoin in, you know, a one-minute type of TikTok or something that's fast paced. So I think it just takes a, you know, it takes a lot of time. Um, and you know, I mean, I think you can probably gain that trust from people over time with, you know, a lot of Instagram reels or a lot of TikTok, um TikToks. But I I don't know, I truly believe that like over time, majority of people that I've met have learned about Bitcoin through, you know, podcasts or sitting down or reading books, um, which I think like basically just leads to like you kind of have to have the desire for it. And it it just takes some time to learn it, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

No, we have to force people, Brandon, like a clockwork arms style, just like hold their eyes open and just make much nonstop Bitcoin content.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

No, I agree, and I think too, I think not being able to squeeze everything about Bitcoin into a one-minute video is actually a good thing because I think that we should be inspiring curiosity. We say this all the time. Like, we don't have to give them the full Bitcoin standard textbook in one video. I think that's okay. I think part of it should be like, you know, becoming a Bitcoiner is is going on that journey yourself. And even if it's just like one reel you do, that it's like maybe you're talking about the Fed or something, um, you never know like where that viewer can then go after that. And maybe they go down the rabbit hole on their own. So I think I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:32

Yeah. I think I think the way you'd you'd structure it right is like um kind of like what Julian does with his content or some of these other, you know, TikTok people. It's like you you create like a hook, you talk a little bit about the Fed and the problem of money, and then you link like the YouTube video or longer form content later on for people to like dive into. Because right now with with the short attention spans, like um people are just especially like the Gen Z, you know, Gen Z uh generation, like it's it's just gonna be hard for them to sit down unless they have a hook and like a reason to watch. But once you give them that hook, I think that you can you can get them.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:08

I'm uh just uh I mean, I don't know, just to just uh keep going on the Gen Z thing, like I I don't believe the narrative that like Gen Z's attention span has like gone away. I mean if you look at all the I mean this is probably like a different rabbit hole to go down, but if you look at like all of the famous TikTokers and all of the big short form creators that have like come off of these TikTok, you know, platforms like Logan Paul was on Vine that was very short form and everything like that, and now he has a podcast. Same thing with Alex Earl, like all of these big, like, let's just say like normie type of creators have all gone towards the long form content. So I think like the reality is that uh Bitcoiners just haven't made it interesting enough to sit down. And listen to a 30-minute or a one hour conversation with all of that. So that's kind of my my opinion on it. I mean, I think like Julian does a great job and his numbers are great, but uh at the same time, like what you just lined out, Roberto, is like how all content really should should work. It's like it's a hook, it has to be entertaining, it has to be like value-packed. And if you can do that in eight minutes or an hour, you know, people are gonna tune in. It's just like, are you doing it as a fluff? You know, are you just like it's just like basically creating like good content. And because we have essentially like all of these platforms at our fingertips, we just have more options now. So we have to make better content. And I think that's where where Bitcoiners have kind of uh, I guess, you know, now it's obviously getting better with like some of these people like you know, Halston and Adam are making great stuff, uh Julian's making great stuff, but um, you know, it's it hasn't really been the case for until like I would say fairly recently.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:04

Yeah, Brandon. I think you have some really good points too about you know, there's there is a desire for longer form content and people do want to learn. It's possible that they're not interested or they're not getting hooked. And you know, I I I think as Bitcoiners, I think we have evidence that our audience is primed to be Bitcoiners. I think when we talk to folks, a lot of them realize that something is wrong. You know, like it's weird that someone can't afford a house when like their parents used to off of like pretty simple job. And at the same time, you know, a lot of younger folks bought NFTs and they bought and they did DeFi and they did a whole bunch of you know crypto garbage, but they they something about them just they were willing to accept it. Like they are, you know, they're they're tech native enough. They have you know, they buy skins or stuff in video games, so they kind of know digital forms of money, but somehow the Bitcoin message went right over their heads and they dived right into NFTs or even you know fairly sophisticated financial products like options trading on GameStop. Uh, they knew the hedge funds are kind of not the good guys and you know aped together strong. So I think there was a lot of things we saw in like the the COVID and post-COVID financial era that taught us that these folks are willing to do new things, they're willing to learn about new financial products, they're learning, willing to experiment with financial products. But the Bitcoin message, you know, Sailor hit his note, his head, his audience, and a lot of people in Sailor's, you know, maybe older, more financially savvy range seem to really embrace Bitcoin. But the younger Gen Z era, I feel like that message missed them. And I feel like we we still have an opportunity to get the Gen Z to understand Bitcoin and embrace it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day, I don't know. I mean, I'm obviously a little bit uh a little bit older than Gen Z, but I think uh just like what helped me was just avoiding a lot of the political jargon and like a lot of the, you know, I don't know, like the acronyms and everything like that, and just cutting it down to brass tax. Like Bitcoin's simple, there's fixed 21 million supply. And you know, once people kind of understand that and understand that the dollar is essentially infinite, I think, you know, it's a pretty easy concept for them to grasp. And I think uh, you know, it's just they've yeah, they they all kind of understand that the status quo has just been kind of fucked in a in a sense. Oh, sorry for for cussing here. Maybe a kid kid show. Um, but uh yeah, it's a good discussion. I gotta go run and hit the gym and potentially get a fake girlfriend so I could be like Kyle.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:35

Uh so I bet you guys Kyle's gonna show up with his girlfriend at the next conference. We don't, you know, just for rarity.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:47

I've been working on Brandon to get him to start looking up and asking questions about the chemtrails. Today he sent me an article with a link to one of them saying, hey, I think you're right about this. Let's Kyle.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

Uh Kyle funds chemtrails with Bitcoin. That's why he's so average that just spent his Bitcoin. All right, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:04

You just have to look up stratospheric aerosol injection. That's what they call it these days.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

Crazy. Guys, on the conversation of long form content, I'm gonna plug it because I know Adam's not. Uh, he just launched a new podcast called the Adam O'Brien Show. And Adam, I'll let you give a description of it if you want. But uh Roberto is actually one of the guests on there that episode will be coming out in a couple weeks, and it's actually like probably out of the six we've done, one of my favorites for sure. So Adam, go ahead. Do you want to explain what that show is?

SPEAKER_08 1:10:36

Yeah, I'll uh I'll hit it. Um, Roberto, love that chat we had. It's basically the the concept is I have been in the space enough time and I've kind of heard everyone's take on Bitcoin, and Bitcoin honestly is a little bit boring because it's kind of just like really simple freedom money. And you can only say that so many times. But one thing I've noticed in the last few years, getting to talk to all these amazing Bitcoiners, is that Bitcoiners have a lot of other things that they're very knowledgeable in. You you really don't get to be in Bitcoin without being a switched-on, knowledgeable individual. And I kind of wanted to start exploring these alternative ideas uh with other Bitcoiners. And so we uh yeah, I've recorded how many now, Halston? Five or six um with other guests. We had Stab, we launched with Stab, which was awesome. Convo with Stab was sweet, and then we did we've done Scott Deedles, uh, Roberto, Pastorcoin, um forget who else Tomer, um, which was super awesome. Like lots of just amazing conversations talking about lots of like spirituality stuff, lots of Scott and I went on this super amazing time. He's he write he's writing or just wrote a book on time and how time is kind of fake and like incredibly centralized and really crazy. Like I'm my mind just I love it. I feel so lucky that I get to talk with these amazing people and have my mind blown every single time. So um yeah, definitely uh, you know, go subscribe. Thanks for the plug, Halston. That is uh good job. And uh yeah, it's pretty fun. I don't know. Um I'm I'm just bullish on Bitcoiners being the authority on all things, not just Bitcoin. It's like, yeah, we've proved to everyone that that we were right about the money. Um you know, lots of us have been yapping about Bitcoin when it was a joke, and you know, like what's what's what what's the meme? You know, oh it's only for uh oh Bitcoin is only for super shadowy super coders, and oh, Bitcoin's only for small business, and oh Bitcoin's only for small governments, and oh, you know, Bitcoin's held by the largest super government in the world. And like that's been the trajectory of the last decade. Uh the next decade's gonna probably be even crazier. And uh, you know, I'm kind of interested in finding uh um, you know, what these smart people are also interested in.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:54

Yeah, you know what the other thing I was gonna add, um, and yes, great, great plug. I've been retweeting the the post you've made about announcing you know the podcast. Um, and I'll boost anything you else you know want want to send my way. So um yeah, that was a great conversation. The other thing, and this leads into exactly what we're talking about. What I was gonna say is, you know, there's this mass awakening happening right now, this mass red pilling of the people, waking up to good and evil, um, to spirituality, to religion. Um, and I think that this actually presents a huge opportunity for Bitcoin because now suddenly instead of just framing it in the oh, like you can make 20% and improve your sharp ratio on your portfolio by 1.06, like all these nerdy, like autistic measures of uh of value, right? You can actually say, hey guys, do we want to be funding a war in Iran where they're bombing, you know, uh a bunch of school schoolgirls and killing 160 people for no reason. Like, do you want to fund that? No. Okay, well then buy Bitcoin. Like there's your answer. This is a moral problem. It's not only obviously a financial, fiscal, economic, um you know, numerical issue. It's it's actually a moral issue. And using the current money monetary system is immoral, at least at some level, right? And even though we all have to engage with it at some point uh during our daily lives, um, it's just an immoral system. It's built to be that way, right? It's built to steal from you, it's built to enslave you, it's built to to censor you and to silence you. And so um with that content stuff that we were talking about earlier, like that I think for someone who's like an enterprising content creator that does short form, I don't do short form or else I would do this. Um but for someone, you know, like Julian or I don't know if Brandon does short form, I don't think he does, but um anyone in l in the audience listening uh who wants to do this kind of stuff, that would be a great opportunity. You could just jump in, TikTok, here's what's happening in Iran, and here's why the money is you know allowing this to happen, right? And here's a way out. Boom.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:58

Yeah, man. I think the morality of Bitcoin is becoming the most apparent. And we are, even as Bitcoiners, I think slowly trying to figure out what that means. Uh, it's it's a crazy journey. And the Bitcoin journey, like it just never ends. Because since getting into Bitcoin, I've learned all about all kinds of adjacent things and adjacent, you know, evil ways that the the people that own the money also own the food and also own the medicine and also own the schools and you know, also own our data and and all this all this craziness. It's just like infinite rabbit holes to go down. And yeah, thanks to Bitcoin, I get to, you know, uncover lots of them with smart with people much smarter than me, which is super sick.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

Yeah, one one thing that comes to mind as you guys are talking about this is a quote. I feel like I read in a Bitcoin book and I can't pinpoint exactly which one, but the quote is that money printing allows governments to spend money on things that the people haven't agreed to. And I think we're seeing that play out with war, like, you know, right now, because if they if they needed all of us to come together to increase our taxes or put money towards this thing in order for it to work, enough people would say no that it wouldn't happen. Um, and that's that's all part of the immorality, I think, of it. But I just wanted to say thank you guys for inviting me. I do have something I gotta get to at night, uh 6 30. So I'm gonna drop. But thank you guys so much for having me. I appreciated it. Great conversation, and um see you soon.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:26

Thanks, Lindsay, for coming. Lindsay's great happy.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

Thanks, Lindsay. Bye.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:30

Actually, on that note, I gotta jump also. Um, but yeah, y'all rock.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:36

Um thanks, Adam, for coming on. I think this is a good place to wrap the space, honestly. Um, I think we've exhausted all the topics. Um it's already been an hour 20, but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:46

Time flies when you're chatting Bitcoin, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:49

It totally does, it totally does. Sweet. Well, Kyle. Great work, guys. Uh Halston and Bitcoin Rad. Thanks for just for jumping on. I really appreciate that. Also, obviously Alex and uh Brandon who jumped on uh a little earlier. Thanks again, guys. And thanks uh Zach for hosting. This was great.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:07

Yeah, thank you, Robert, for coming, man. Yeah, thanks guys. And thanks everyone that came. We'll probably try and do another one of these later in the month, I think. Is that right?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:15

Uh yeah, yeah, let's do another one later, for sure. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

Well, thank you guys everyone for coming. This was a great spaces, and we'll catch you on the next one. Have a great day. In the war.