PF&R Chief's Corner
An update from the administration of Portland Fire & Rescue
PF&R Chief's Corner
PF&R Chief's Corner July 2026
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Chief Lauren Johnson speaks with host Inspector Andre Bell-Watkins about illegal burns, retire/rehire, specialty team selection, the rescue units, and more, live from The Animal House - PF&R Station 3.
Good morning, Portland Fire. Welcome to another episode of Chief's Corner. My name is Andre Bell Watkins. I'm a fire inspector over in the fire marshal's office, and we are here with Chief Lauren Johnson at station three. I walked in this kitchen and it was transformed into where we're gonna shoot Chief's Corner, where we're doing it right now. Um just want to let you all know that if you have questions, you can submit them via the Zoom chat. If you can find that there at the bottom of your screens, please feel free to submit your questions. We did get a few repetitive questions. So throughout this episode, if you find that we are not clearly answering your question or if you want some follow-up, please let us know via the chat. It's not a problem. So anyway, um, Chief Johnson, thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, I guess we can jump right in and let's do it. Yeah, that's the best way. All right. Okay, first question. This is in regarding burns, regarding burns. Can we work quickly to develop a policy to involve Portland police whenever we are investigating a report of an illegal outside fire? The city's camping ordinance explicitly prohibits starting or maintaining any fire in or around a campsite. Citations for the ordinance in general began on November 1st of 2025. Coupled with the annual burn ban, can we please get our PD partners to respond and cite in all cases of illegal outside fires? These fires have caused untold death, injury, damage, and heartache throughout the city for roughly the last decade.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. Um I think the first thing to talk about is just in terms of the camping ordinance. So there's a time place manner rule that PPB's involved in helping to enforce. Um it's that's really a longer process that doesn't match up to what we need for extinguishing illegal burns and citing folks for illegal burns. Um, just for everybody's knowledge, like the time place manner enforcement happens with days notice, it happens with posting signs in the area and then coordinating with Portland Solutions to get wraparound services, and it's there's a big team that goes out. Um the mayor specifically is interested in Portland police not being involved in our enforcement of illegal burns. Um that's that's not how he wants to see the police used. And just like um fire is still short staffed, we know that PPB is short staffed, and so I I really think that even if this was the right setup, you guys would be waiting on scene for a long time before you got enforcement there to help with that. That said, it's Portland Fire and Rescue's um job, it's our responsibility to do those citations using the on-duty fire investigator.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, I don't know how effective that is. I mean, it's definitely a tool in our toolbox so that if we go out and we have somebody that just continues to do illegal fires, which right now, because of the burn ban, um, pretty much everything besides the small narrow uh set that are permitted for, you know, in a cooking container where you're grilling in your backyard or something, um, any of those other illegal burns, we need to be putting them out. And if you do feel like you're not getting compliance, if you're getting pushback, if this is a repeat offender that after you've explained, hey, you can't have these fires, um, if they continue, then the first call is to the on-duty investigator to come out. It is a citation process. So I I think the thing for everybody to know is that we can absolutely work through that citation process, but that it's not very effective with maybe the unsheltered population, right, that's transient, that you know we have no way of even documenting like, is this the right person? How do we notify them? Um, but know that that that is an option, and going through the enforcement route means the on-duty investigator uh being called out to do citations, and then after a number of citations, there's fines that are associated. So again, that's that's a tool in the toolbox. I don't know that that's effective, um, but still do it if you feel like you're in that situation. I think the other thing to talk about is that if you've got a hostile fire, like something that is threatening, you know, properties, threatening to hurt people, um, and you have somebody that's not letting you extinguish that fire safely, that is a call to PPB. It's also a call to the on-duty investigator. I think it's also a call to a battalion chief just to help get you some backup in that situation. But we want to make sure that especially if the fire is going somewhere or threatening to go someplace that it does get extinguished. Um, and then just know that in the background, we are working with Portland Solutions mostly, um, and then chat asking them to be sure to kind of do some education when they're out in the community to let folks who have you know had the past practice of like being able to do campfires whenever they want to, to let them know now that we're in the burn ban, this is not allowed. And then even after the burn ban is lifted in the fall, the outside illegal burning is not gonna be permitted. So the modified response that EOPS has had the ability to do before the burn ban is not gonna be an option moving forward. So we're trying to do as much education to let people know ahead of time that that that's what they're gonna be looking at in the fall.
SPEAKER_00I see kind of give them a heads up that this is coming. Right.
SPEAKER_01So even when it gets cold. Um and I, you know, the key there is, and this is really a priority of the mayor's, but the the key is that if there are people outside who need to be warm, we need to offer them shelter. Um, and you know, now we have shelters that are open overnight, and if people are interested in being inside and being warm, we will figure out the transport um situation. There's taxi vouchers, there's Portland solutions. We still need that system to work better. Um, but that's the process.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah. Okay. Was that effective at all this past winter?
SPEAKER_01So I it n I don't know. Um, I don't I do think that they move more people into shelters than they had in the past because PSR had extended their hours to midnight, I think, and I know they're working, if they're not there already, they're working towards a 24-7 response ability. Um I I know that the shelter beds were not all full, and that there were still plenty of people who were out on the streets, even during that really bad kind of stretch of you know, wet, cold weather in uh November to January-ish. Um so that's I would say still a work in progress. I don't think it was nearly as effective as as they want it to be. Better than before, because there are there definitely is more shelter beds than there were before. Um, and you know, I think all we can do is offer, and that's what's required of us, is just we offer that transport to the shelter, which again is either a taxi voucher or us calling for Portland Solutions to come and do the transport. So we're not Portland Fire is not transporting people to shelters right now. Um, but we do, you know, have the obligation when we go extinguish that fire to always make that offer in case somebody's willing to take that and get off the streets.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. Um you know, you touched on it a little bit with the answer to this next question. So we received the question this morning. So again, if you have questions, feel free to submit them via the chat. Here's a question in regards to uh citing for an illegal burn. So the question reads as follows Now that we are in a burn ban, how do we plan to enforce it? Recently we have had a large number of illegal burns, some very egregious and dangerous. When a call was made to our investigations division, this person was told they could not cite anyone, and that they needed to call for police if Portland Fire wanted anyone cite it. They also said that police, so they being the investigators or the investigations division, told this firefighter that police rarely cite anyone for this. So this person's question is aren't our investigators police? And I guess this person followed up with their BC and ran it up the chain and was told that the burn ban is a city ordinance and it really isn't enforceable. So as a company officer, what is this person's course of action when they come upon these situations?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I don't know if that's that certainly sounds like kind of the opposite of what I had just said is supposed to be happening. Um and so I want to apologize to that company officer that had the experience, and then somehow we had a communication breakdown. Um I would like whoever wrote that in to follow up again or maybe ask your BC to make sure and get that uh incident told to the 103 on your shift so that we can follow up. But my understanding for sure is that we can cite. Um, it's under the uh fire investigations and um fire like the FMO's office policies that really lines out what's a legal fire and what's an illegal fire. And so based on that, we make citations because that's that is in city ordinance. So we should be able to enforce it. Again, I'd PPB is not the right route for that. So, but it you know, I think it sounds like we had a breakdown in how that's supposed to go. So let's follow up and and make sure that gets to the 103s, and then then I'll follow up with that person. But um, let's hope that by next month we've got this handled, and maybe it's something I can report out on on like the two-week review just to say, hey, we figured out what this is, and then use that as a means to get the word out to all the companies. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because maybe there was a misunderstanding or something that can get.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's find out the details and communicate that. So I'll do that.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Chief. I'll give you a second to problem.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'm good.
SPEAKER_00All right, next question. Contractually, we are given 12 months to retire, rehire. And in past practices, in past practices, the administration has allowed the member to extend an additional six months if the member asks. But the current budgetary restraints, do you still think that will stay the practice? Or would the administration just adhere to the 12 months? I'll stop right there. Kind of a multi-part question.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Yeah, and I would say this is a question I get almost every time I'm at a station, um, and it's come up a few times in the Chiefs Corner. So under the current CBA, right, that goes through June 30th of next summer, we do automatically approve, as long as you meet the criteria, um, a 12-month rehire. After that, um, you know, I think it's gonna be more of a game time decision based on what we see for retirements. You know, we know that we'll have a group in May of 27 that rolls off from this current rehire, like the folks that just signed up, they'll be completing a year. Um, and then October of 27 will be another big um uh retirement wave we're expecting because it's got a 27th pay period in it. So as we get closer to being able to predict what our needs are, how many recruits have come through the Academy, how many are gonna get out to the station and help make that 171 that we need working in the field, uh, we'll be able to make a better decision. So I hate to say I'm not I don't know yet, but I just don't know yet.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Um so that's where we're at. I I think that just in general um we get questions a lot, and it's in this next section, so I don't want to take too much from what you had planned, but in general, it's been more expensive than I think was initially planned when this was negotiated. So it's definitely something that the budget office that city administration is looking at to make sure that we're doing this the best way we can. But right now, since it's part of the contract, it's in through June, uh, the end of June of 2027 for the 12 months guarantee, as long as you meet the criteria. And then again, the six-month extension is gonna be more of a game time decision.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And I'm just making sure because you like you said, I think you might have answered the next question in there a little bit. Also, we understand. So the question continues. Also, we understand that we will be allowed to do the retire, rehire for the October twenty of twenty twenty-seven pay period, as long as we put it in before our July 2027 contract ends. If a person was planning on that and assuming practice um past practices were allowed, that puts an expiration date of April of 2029. Does that read accurate so far? Sometimes okay. So now if we were not going to get the extra six months that we previously had been getting, that would cut our end date short by six months. That being said, would you allow us if we were only allowed 12 months working back to have our start date of the retiree hire be the April of 2028 27th payroll and do the 12 months so we would be done at the same April of 2029 date?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I just have to say, like, I love the thoughtfulness, I love the planning, I love the creativity. Um, that's exactly what we need. But I can't do that because the contract requires that we make that you guys make your application and we do this six months in advance of when you start your rehire. And so that would push it out basically into the time period that's covered by the successor uh CBA. And I really love my job, and I don't want council or the city administrator to decide that I don't get to have it anymore, and they would certainly do that if I started to make agreements that should be covered by the next CBA. So I just I can't do that because it violates, it basically violates what is in the CBA right now, and it promises something that we haven't negotiated for the next contract.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Do you see it possible to maybe if enough members are interested in this to maybe get it at least talked about, put it on the table, I don't know, for the next contract?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think everything is open, and now is the time to be talking with your union reps about you know some ways that we could maybe retool the retire, rehire. Um I'll I'll speak for you and kind of grab this last part of the question that says, do you see the program going completely away, or would it stay with some sort of reform? And um right now I think as is, city administration would want it to go completely away because we're trying to find something that it's mutually beneficial, right? That it doesn't cost us a bunch of extra money to keep people in the rehire. And you know, I something I always want to acknowledge is that keeping the seniority is important. Um, so it's not that there's zero value or that there's only value that's associated with the bottom line or or the money that we're spending. Um, and I I want people to hear that because a lot of times all we do is talk about the bottom line.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But um I think there's some opportunity for some retooling so that it it does make it back to being closer to being mutually beneficial, and so some some thoughts we've had, um, which again this would all be for the next contract, you know, or maybe um letting people rehire but only coming back at the firefighter rank instead of at an officer rank, um, or maybe there's an operational need to make sure we keep paramedics. Um so people who are currently paramedics now, if they committed to staying a paramedic and working as a medic on their rehire, then maybe they got to rehire. Um, but I would just say now's the time to throw those suggestions out and to start talking with the union so that we can start looking at um, you know, how that would work. But right now, um I think reform is the best thing we can hope for for the next contract.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um so I'd love to find a way to make it work for both sides.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it makes sense. It does, especially when you spoke of the institutional knowledge that gets lost when these senior firefighters move on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We're failing it. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Let's see. Okay, this next question reads Chief Johnson, since the department moved away from the panel interview process for specialty assignments and promotions and transitioned to selections being made by appointment alone, are there any plans to revise the current process or implement a more structured and equitable system for evaluating candidates?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, I appreciate this question. It's also something that comes up a lot, which kind of cues me into like, you know, we we still, I still feel like we haven't done an effective or haven't been effective at communicating why we had to make this change. And so this change happened at the direction of the city, basically city attorneys, and it was after, you know, a review that basically made it sound like our assignment of work process looked too much like a promotional process. So interviews, resumes, like checking skills, and the argument from the city attorney and from HR side is that if you're doing those things, then it should be a promotional process. It should be a classification. Um, I don't think the Bureau is wanting that for our specialty assignments. I don't think we want to have all these new kind of ranks that you would promote into, whether that's some kind of specialist or some kind of tech rescue person or some kind of marine specialist. And so that has put us back into this place of it's just an appointment for an assignment of work. It has to happen by an executive member, so deputy rank, AFM rank, and above. Um and so that's that's where we're at. I would say I haven't met a person that doesn't want to have some sort of a process, that wants a process that's transparent, that's fair, that um is clear to everybody involved that we're matching skills or like the best needs of that program or the bureau to the people that get moved into those programs. We are still looking for some version of that that city attorneys and HR will approve, and we'll continue to do that. It's something we've talked with local 43 about. It's important to them, it's important to me and all the non-rep kind of administrators that are having to make this decision. Um, so I don't have good answers for this now, other than it's something that we'll continue to work on to see if there's a way we can come up with a process that's acceptable, that's not a promotion.
SPEAKER_00Understood. And that probably answers the next question because in the same subject, it kind of asks um, you know, if changes are being considered, can you share what those changes might be? But at this point, do you even Yeah, we haven't.
SPEAKER_01I I feel like that's the ideas that we've had um still don't meet the threshold that the city attorney is comfortable with. And so we've we've pushed back. In fact, um even the process that we currently have now is not the least risky by their advice. Um and so, but we we really felt like it was important to make a notification bureau wide so that everybody knew that there was an assignment of work available.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Um and then, you know, kind of take all the information and the non-rep manager, first ranking non-rep manager is the one making that decision. Other than that, we haven't been able to kind of work our way out of that box. Okay. So people have suggestions, I'm totally, I would love to hear that.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. You know, and just to close out this person's um question, you said this, you said even our union feels this way. Many members. So this person is the question is this many members value a process that promotes the transparency, consistency, excuse me, consistency, and confidence that the most qualified candidates are being selected. So I just want to at least let that person's voice be heard. And they uh thank you for your time and consideration with the question. Yeah, yeah. Next question. This is from Monty Sheerling. I would like to discuss the idea of implementing seniority longevity points into the promotional grading process to recognize experience in the fire service. Is this something that you would consider and support? And if so, what would be the process and timeline to implement? Implementing this change. He thanks you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Mani, thank you. So definitely in principle, I agree. I think this goes back to even what we're concerned about with the big retirement waves. It's why, you know, in principle, we support the idea of a retire-rehire program as just like retaining the institutional knowledge. We know that quite a bit of our emergency responses, the serious ones, right, are dependent on people having this slides, slide deck kind of of experiences and recognizing and picking up on cues about that incident and not even realizing it. And I, I mean, I think we all recognize the importance of that. And so I, along those lines, do support the idea of like looking into implementing seniority or longevity points in a promotional process. I could tell you that, you know, looking back in in the fire service, which was late to integrate in terms of women and minority races, for a long time this couldn't be part of a promotional process because it would have a disparate impact on protected groups. And so I think my question is when it comes to this, and I just need more time to dig into it, is if we made this decision, would we be having a negative impact on any protected group? Um, and as long as that answer is no, then I'd be interested in kind of going down this road with BHR and making sure that there's nothing that they won't approve about adding that to our process. And then the timeline would be based on kind of BHR's approval because it has to do with the promotional process. But I mean, I I think that's that's important to realize why it hasn't existed in the past, is because I don't know you know what the numbers look like for Portland Fire, but I know my experience in Dallas for a long time if we implemented this kind of change, it would have had a disparate impact.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01And it's against the law, it's not something that we want to do. Um, but I I would be interested. I think somebody could run the numbers and and we could start to look at that and make it towards uh, you know, maybe not. I know the battalion chiefs list is coming up or test is coming up, but try to work that in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that would be interesting to to see, like you said, running the numbers to see if the playing field what range is enough of a level playing field to implement something like this. Right. Yeah, like you said, to make it fair to everyone.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00Especially for those who do not have a history, whether it's uh call it nepotism or whatever, but do not have even a family history of being part of an organization. Yeah. And in this case, Portland Fire and Rescue.
SPEAKER_01So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm in and I would love, Monty, maybe you can start talking around the kitchen table and as you're out in your travels, um, you know, do we think it's in five-year bands, ten-year bands? Um, you know, all of a sudden we're getting pretty young because of these big retirements. You know, we know we had big hiring classes, late 90s, early 2000s, and so now as those people kind of roll off um into retirements, um, I'd be curious about, you know, like I said, what what points for how many years um would people be interested in? But I'm up for that and and digging into that more for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that would be a good one to dig into. Next question for you, Chief. With the reorganization of Portland Fire and Rescue Divisions, would you please talk about your vision and plans for the fire liaison position at Boek?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll tell you um a couple of things. One, we're putting together like a draft of a re-org uh or an organizational chart that we can share with everybody. Um, and that'll stay in draft form until it's approved by city council. And the reason why it's got to go to city council is because if, well, my plan is to do away with the name of the MST, so Medical Services and Training Division, and that is something that's recognized in the current CBA, and so making a change to anything that's in an existing contract needs their approval. Um, we don't anticipate any changes or any problems because there's not a cost associated with changing the name and moving uh positions around. But um just when you guys see it, the org chart will have the draft watermark on it for a while. Um so to get to this question about fire liaison positions and and what do I see in terms of a vision, I can tell you that I mean during my first week here, Chief Ponce came and said, if I got to do anything, I would want a 24-7 liaison. And I can certainly see the need for that. Um, I think the liaisons are really important. One for resource deployment. So, like when things get busy, um we could, you know, I think the 103s do quite a bit of keeping an eye on how we're looking across the city, where move-ups need to happen. But if the liaison was there 24-7, that's also something the liaison could really take off. The 103s plate. I also think that the liaisons play a pretty significant role in making sure that call allocation is happening. So just kind of having their ear there and making sure that when a call comes in, gets triaged through Pro QA and kicks out a resource, you know, just having an eye on that process and making sure that the right resource is going and having somebody in that office, that is useful. Um, so I support that. And I think overall we'll end up having the effect that we're making sure we're sending the right resource to the right call and maybe pulling resources off of calls, which you know I think most people want to go on every call that they're needed on, but we want to make sure that the programming is working out right. So liaison can help with that. Um all that said, one of the things we, you know, are exploring is um Gresham has shown an interest in maybe supporting just with funding, not with a position, but funding a position that would be another Portland firefighter or officer that ended up in the liaison role. Um we would love that to happen. I think Gresham knows that the liaison is helping all of the BOEC users in terms of resources while the liaison's at work. And so that's one thing we're exploring is could we leverage some money from them to help increase staffing? Okay. Um yeah, so if if there are more questions, type them in the chat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, please, and that's a thanks, Chief. Uh please, I want I do want to remind you, please, if you have questions, follow-up questions to any of these, even if you even if you did not submit the questions, submit them via the chat there via Zoom. Um and again, for those who weren't listening earlier, if some of the questions sound repetitive, well, let me back up, excuse me. Many of the questions we get are repetitive. If we haven't gotten to your question, if you feel like we have not answered it correctly or clearly, please submit it via the chat and we will get that question asked. Chief, we're coming up on the last two questions, so that's another thing. We're we're getting to the end, so let's go, Portland Fire. Chief, how will we be scheduling the rescues given the guidance in the new budget of operating 12 hours of the day? And will these be consistent hours or will they vary? There's more there, but I'll maybe stop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's important to talk about this. So I'll just lay the the foundation. Last Wednesday, I guess, the 17th, the budget was passed. It did not include any additional funding for the rescues. And so we are funded for 12 hours a day for all three rescues every day of the year, um, starting July 1. That said, one of the things we really wanted to retain control over was the ability to make a scheduling decision and a deployment decision based on our needs, so based on operational needs. Um initially, when we were told we needed to come up with a plan, the first plan we put out there was 12 hours a day for all three rescues, and as we talked to members, we s we kind of landed on an 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Um with the feedback that that would be the like the hours that would give us the best chance of getting people to sign up for overtime.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01And so um I think one of the questions that comes up a lot is, you know, how are we gonna staff them? And so right now, um the the first plan we have is that it's staffed on overtime. And that came from, you know, after discussing with the captains at the stations that have the rescues and getting their feedback on, you know, what's gonna be better for them and their members. Um, I think it would be hard. It you know, it says a lot about all three of those stations that initial feedback was really that those crews don't want to be broken up. And I'm I think that's amazing. I'm I'm really thankful for that work group. I'm thankful for the officers and the members that um, you know, foster that environment that people don't want to leave, especially at you know, some of the busiest places in the city. Um but when we think about you know what's the real life look like for firefighters that are you know on a rescue for 12 hours and then detailed for the next 12 hours to some vacancy that then kicks out somebody that was on a call shift to go home. Um one, operationally that's a lot of move movement, but two, that really for those individual members that kind of now are living out of their car. There's a lot of reasons why that doesn't seem like that's the right way to go either. Um and so the feedback we got from the captains was you know, it's it's not what they want, and I would agree a hundred percent it's it's not what any of us want. Um it's best to go ahead and make the decision to move two members out from each of those rescue stations on the ship on their shifts and just staff the rescues with overtime, so with people who sign up for call shifts.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So I'll stop there and um let you ask maybe the rest of that question. And I think you did.
SPEAKER_00How will how will the members' schedules be handled regarding the 12-hour shift? Yeah, so you just answer that and will they be on another apparatus for those other 12 hours? You just answered that as well because you don't want to have too many moving parts.
SPEAKER_01I think so.
SPEAKER_00I think that'd be tough. Kicking out other members who are staffed there or at those other stations if you had to keep them on for a full 24. This next question is related to the rescues, and let's see here. What changes are taking place to the three rescues? You answered that. And are any switching over to peak hours staffing? If so, which ones? Yeah, yeah. I don't know, but when you I just want to if you could address what is considered peak hour staffing, just to make sure whoever asked this question has the same understanding of what peak hour staffing is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um what's interesting, you know, thankfully we're able to we've got folks um obviously folks out at the stations making the calls, and then we've got folks up uh at station one kind of on the third floor that are able to pull this data and show us, you know, heat maps in terms of what areas um have the highest run totals for those rescues, and then time of day and um day of week in terms of what's busy. And so that's been a factor for us. We see the majority of the calls that rescues go on are kind of late afternoon or into the evening time. Um, but we had to balance that with the idea of how do we get people to sign up for call shifts. I think one of the things I really struggle with, you know, in a management or administration position is, you know, we were there every day fighting saying we have to have these rescues. Any cut to the rescues is bad for the city of Portland. But if I can't staff them and they are closed because I can't get anybody to ride them for the day, I worry about that mixed message. So it is important to me to kind of find the balance where it's not an ideal situation. We are gonna staff with overtime. Let's make it so that it's um at least sort of attractive for members to sign up when they get off shift. And so that's where we came up with the 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Um easy to sign up when they're coming off shift.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just because they're coming off shift.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So that's that's our thought. I would say that um these brainstorming sessions are still hot and heavy for a couple of reasons. Um, we would like to have a decision by the end of the week so that um we can know what we're gonna do for July 1st. Um, that said, there's a couple of things specific to 31s, right? We've got an intergovernmental agreement with Gresham. Um that relationship's important to me. I think those crews and the officers have spent a lot of time, like you guys have worked on making that setup work, and I'm not interested right now in upsetting that Apple cart. Um, we could change the agreement. We have to give Gresham 30 days notice, and then we would have to get the attorneys involved and kind of update the contract. So in the immediate future, we're not gonna change the situation at at 31s, which keeps rescue 31 in just like normal on A shift and on C shift 24-7.
SPEAKER_00Is that one ALS or BLS?
SPEAKER_01That is a good question, and uh don't quote me. Um I think it's ALS, but I I'm not sure. That is another question that we've seen. And so I'm glad you brought that up. Um I know that Chief Ponce and uh is looking at whether we keep all the rescues ALS or BLS, but it's not really related to the change in the budget, it's related to the shortage in medics. And so more to come on that, but that has been a discussion um about what we're gonna do with the rescues. So 30 days notice to change anything at 31s, that means nothing's gonna change right now at 31s. The other thing that we really want to be aware of is that council, there's some counselors who have proposed um changes to funding that um would or could restore money to us that would fund the rescues, some or all. Um so there's a couple of proposals out there, and I think that that's what's tough is that uh we know that those ordinances are being talked about and that they are working kind of their channels to get support for restoring the funding for us, and then also other things of public safety. Um but what's what's tough for us right now and in kind of this next week is thinking through, okay, potentially making these changes at 11s and 19s, moving workers, you know, moving firefighters out of their homes, um, and then maybe in a month getting info that says, oh, we've funded you, rescues are back 24-7, which we absolutely hope we end up there. I think we just want to, or not I think, I know we want to be really intentional and careful about the decision we make about what things look like for the next month, recognizing that folks are gonna get moved out of their stations and you know, just that um even when that's good, right? Even when you land someplace that you didn't think you wanted to go to and it turns out to be a great crew or a great FMA, and you know it it works out for the better. Um I still want to be really aware of the decisions that we're making and how they impact our folks. Right. So um thanks for that. Don't have a complete answer yet, but hopefully by the end of the week we'll we'll make a decision so that we can move forward and let people know what to expect.
SPEAKER_00And I think, and yeah, I'm sure you've already thought about this, is that this sounds like whatever plan gets pushed forward, we have to try to give ourselves some time to adjust what the plan is versus what the reality is going to be. Because they might not always they they you they seldomly match.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00So then we have to be ready to adjust. And and if we can't adjust until a certain time period, then we just have to hold tight and wait until we can. That's right. If that even happens. Yeah. Hopefully, if we're lucky, whatever you whatever is pushed forward, yeah, you know, on the first shot gets it.
SPEAKER_01That would be great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, and I, you know, I think that's just big picture, something that's important to talk about is that like, you know, you've heard folks out there have heard us ask for feedback, right? Um, I think it's important that we're able to make changes and kind of be nimble and try things. Um and then if they don't work, recognize that and go back, you know, and then maybe maybe make a new iteration or a new change. Um, but that's that's really the only way that you move forward. It's really the only way that you adapt to kind of the changing environment that is the city budget, that is kind of the landscape that we're living and working in. Um and so I would just ask for grace and patience with that and know that we're trying to make the best decision in terms of how it impacts the community and how it impacts our firefighters and our members first. And um, you know, we will be watching like how it's going and then making adjustments to the extent that we can, no matter what.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Gee. We I'm sure we'll all appreciate that. I'm sure you will too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Let's see here. Okay, we have a few more questions submitted via the chat. One from Isaac first. Okay, let's see here. All right. This is from Isaac McClellan. McClellan, I I can't speak today. Isaac, thanks for your question. Here's the question. To clarify, regarding the retiree hire, any changes to the contract would need to be ratified by the majority of the members or a part of the prevailing party's last best offer in arbitration. Management cannot simply remove the article without one of those processes. So I guess our president just wanted to make that clear. And I'll read that again. So from our union president, Isaac McClennan, to clarify regarding the retiree hire, any changes to the contract would need to be ratified by the majority of the members or a part of the prevailing party's last best offer in arbitration. Management cannot simply remove the article without one of those processes. Do you have anything to say in response to that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I I think that that's an important clarification. So, Isaac, put a note back in or text me if I'm getting this wrong. But I think what's important about your comment is that like going into the negotiations for the next CBA is like we kind of move forward with what's existing in the contract. And any changes to that has to be negotiated out and then voted upon and ratified. Totally agree. And um anybody that's had interactions with me, I hope you know like I'm very much a rule follower, and so I've there's no part of me that would want to get on the wrong side of how negotiations go. And um, you know, I need that info because that's that's a gap for me. Like, as much as I want to learn about how collective bargaining goes. In Dallas, I had uh meet and confer, which is kind of collective bargaining light. Gotcha. Um, but so some of this is I'm still learning that point, and I appreciate the clarification.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Isaac. Next question. And it's funny, you just spoke about Dallas. This kind of goes taking you back there a little bit. So were there ways, strategies, or programs for the transferring of institutional knowledge from your previous experience in Dallas that proved effect that proved effective, aside from training and informal conversation. So did Dallas, where you used to work, did they have any type of system in place to transfer that institutional knowledge on to the remaining members?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't know that Dallas is doing anything that Portland isn't doing. Um a couple of things come to mind, you know, I know it said not training, but um Chief Wilson, for example, mentioned this morning that, you know, they're working on the next Lieutenant's Academy. And um I already know that I've been in touch with Dallas, and then Dallas had been in touch with somebody in Portland about the lieutenant's academy that happens in Dallas. Um and just making sure that like if there was something Dallas was doing. That maybe we grabbed that to do in Portland. But then Portland also also shared back to Dallas, which I love, just because we're doing the same things. That officer academy in in Dallas, one of the things I really appreciated was that we did take kind of the most senior members, really regardless of rank. It was more specific to topic and like who was the best at doing those things. And we had those folks go out and teach the lieutenant's academy. I think another way that Dallas did, and I think Portland Fire kind of does this with maybe the firefighter digest, but Dallas was intentional about grabbing senior members again and doing a video of like just talking about certain fires or things that they wanted to make sure really got passed on. And so I think that that kind of passing the history on, passing experiences on, and hearing it from those people who we've all thought, like, oh man, I wish that VC was still here, or I wish that captain or that firefighter was still here. I think that's valuable.
SPEAKER_02It is.
SPEAKER_01I think the last thing, and we just in a meeting yesterday talked about, I'm I know them as like a battle book, but it's basically if you're in a position, you know, writing down all the things that you want your successor to know about that position. So everything from like here's where these files are to here's what I do daily, weekly, monthly, uh, yearly, um, here's who I go to for things. So I'll give a sports analogy and I'm probably gonna butcher it. But George Steinbrenner, I think, like Yankees manager from when you and I were much younger. Yep. Um, I think this has been attributed to him that like the new manager comes in and uh nothing's on the desk, and he sits down, and in the drawer is a list, and it's of the current roster, and like, you know, hey, so and so is a great first baseman, but like he's weak at such and such. And this other person, you know, they are great at fielding balls that are on their right, but they really need to work on their left. Um, and so passing on that knowledge, whether it's about your FMA, whether it's about your coworkers, um, I think that that's all really important and useful. And it's kind of like that's a way we show our love and our care for the organization is making sure, because we know, like you and I could walk out this door today.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_01The wheels keep spinning, everybody keeps going on runs, like the work still gets done. Um, but it's that kind of passion, the things that just somehow get lost um as you turn people over. So yesterday I learned that in the 103's office there was some version of that that had been happening, and they called it the football. And you know, let's just make sure that we pass the football from chief to chief. Um, and and maybe that was in a book that stayed in their office. Um, but I've I appreciate that question because I think it highlights, you know, now, just like some other spots in our history, we've got a bunch of folks walking out the door, and anything we can do to grab that, um, you know, the stories, the knowledge, like I said, the target hazards. Uh I think that's important. And I I think the other thing people will hear me say is like I tell stories a lot. Um, and there's so much value in telling those stories, right? It's if I'm telling them, then that gives you guys a chance to like hear my intention, like what's important to me, the things that I focus on. Um, and you guys telling your stories to others does the same thing, right? It shows what you value. Um, it maybe can weave in some lessons learned that everybody at the table could pick up on instead of like taking somebody aside and only telling that one member that special thing. Um, tell it in a story and and share that with everybody at the table. So I I want to give more thought to like could we be doing that better? Um, and if if anybody has ideas, bring it up. But that's it's important.
SPEAKER_00It is, it is, and like you said, and capturing those moments, like being intentional about it. Yeah, especially at the fire station. I think sometimes it's hard to well it's not hard, you just have to schedule it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You really have to schedule the time to have to have those moments, whether it's a story, whether fictional or not, but usually, you know, at least in my experience in the stations, it it's a something that happened with a firefighter or a lieutenant or chief, whatever rank it doesn't matter, on the fire ground, or an interpersonal problem at a station, how it was handled, and that's maybe some best ways to move forward. Yeah. There are so many. If we're wise, we learn from other people's stories and mistakes without having to go through it ourselves necessarily. Experience teaches us, but you don't have to experience everything.
SPEAKER_01No, that's the school of hard knocks, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Um, Portland Fire. Let's see. Do we have any more questions? Submit it. I'm not seeing any so far. Um, again, we've said it a few times. If you would like to submit a question, please do so anytime right now via chat or via Zoom. Um if we don't get to your question today, we will get to it in uh in the following episode. Um Chiefs Corner is also available on as a podcast, so you can get it on Apple or Spotify wherever you get your podcast. This episode will also be on Target Solutions later today. So if you find that you didn't catch certain parts of it, maybe you had to go on a call, feel free to get on Target Solutions. Um Chief, do you have anything to add?
SPEAKER_01No, thank you. This is the first time that we've gotten to sit down. Yes. Um we kept missing each other. So thank you for that. Thanks to Station 3 for hosting. Um it was a cool change. It wasn't as cold as uh the Skidmore room in station one. So I appreciated that.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's funny you say that because I have sat there during a couple episodes trying not to shiver. Like I feel my mouth kind of when I'm holding together.
SPEAKER_01That's why I've got the coffee. Yeah, I hear you. Um so yeah, this was a nice change, and I I appreciate them letting us kind of crash in in their kitchen. And uh maybe we want to ask for more stations to step up, but um I want to thank everybody. I mean, I think if I've got, you know, 15 seconds to say thank you. Um I've had station inspections, I've had the occasion, feel like I'm coming up from being underwater with the budget. Um, probably right in time for everybody to go on vacation, is what I'm learning about what happens here. But I just I look forward to seeing you guys out and about, and it really makes my day. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thanks, Chief. Um, I guess we're signing off. Thank you all for joining us for another episode of Chief's Corner. You all have a great rest of your day. Thank you.