Episode 9 – New Middle Class

New Middle Class is Barbara Borok (vocal) and Mike Borok (guitar/vocal).  Their award-winning original songs walk a thin line between the funny and the serious, with distinctive vocals, harmonies and delightfully unexpected lyrical twists and turns.  The songs span an eclectic range of styles, often speaking with the voices of different characters.

They live in Westchester County, NY, where they have two cars and a one-car garage.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Welcome to another edition of Acoustic Northeast, where we talk about the singers and songwriters and the acoustic music scene in the Northeast United States. And we interview musicians who play live for us and you in studio. I am co-host George Malice.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

And I am co-host Dave Goldenberg and engineering, helping out with engineering today is gentleman Jim Nowak.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Yeah, he's the best. We are sponsored by hereathare.com, WBXO Internet Radio, and Hudson Harding Folk Radio Promoters.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

And you can listen to our podcast right where you're listening to it now, obviously, but also wherever you get your podcasts, and also on YouTube, on acousticnortheast.com, and on WBXO Internet Radio. WBXO.com.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Yeah. And today in studio we have a great duo that are going to play for you. And their name is New Middle Class. Do not put the the in front of New Middle Class. Where do we put the the? You put the the somewhere else, but not anywhere in their name. Pay extra for the the so and that is Mike and Barbara Borak. And welcome to the show. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

We're uh happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_05 1:40

Yeah, very excited. You're one of those acts I always look forward to seeing and and scoot out to see when you're around because your music it it's it's um full of feeling, but it's also full of humor, which really brings a kind of balance that that's needed sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

We would love for you guys to kick the show off with a song. Are you guys ready to play something? What do you what do you have in mind? Intro it for our audience.

SPEAKER_06 2:04

Oh, I think we got something. Uh this is a song that is going to be on our next album.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

It's it's about uh maybe uh being careful about what you wish for.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

One, two, one, two, three.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Now that I have you, I don't want you. Now that you love me, I don't care. You say your mistakes always come back to haunt you. And now that I have you, I don't want you. Now that you kiss me, I'm not satisfied. Now that you're with me, I think about other guys. Now that you talk to me, I see that it's true. You're louder than me, but I'm smarter than you. Now that I know you, you're not so admirable. Now that you need me, you're not so desirable. Now that my friends have all see me with you, I'd really rather be with someone new on the night we met. I did my best to impress you. Now I might regret my desire to possess you. Cause now that I have you, I don't want you. Now that you love me, I don't care. They stay on mistakes, always come back to haunt you. And now that I have you, I don't want you now that I have you, I don't want you now. Muscular and unshaven, you were cool at first, but eventually you gave in. And now that I have you, I don't want you. Now that you love me, I don't care. They say your mistakes disappoint you and taunt you. They say your mistakes will torment you and taunt you. They say your mistakes always come back to home you. And now that I have you, I don't want you.

SPEAKER_05 5:32

Alright, that's new middle class. That's from your forthcoming album, you say?

SPEAKER_06 5:37

Yes, it's gonna be called Conspiracies.

SPEAKER_05 5:39

Ah, well, there's one for you. So, yeah, you seem to have your finger on the pulse of like the human condition, and you guys come at it with such great writing and such great lyrics. But before we like dive into that, I have always wondered about the name for your group, and all I could find on the internet was a paper from 1909 by a guy named Pancake. Panikok, I think it is, who wrote about the rise of the new middle class as an alternative to the petty bourgeoisie. So it was a whole like a whole Marxist story behind that. But I think it's probably simpler than that.

SPEAKER_06 6:16

Well, that's us. That was the uh 1909, did you say?

SPEAKER_05 6:21

1909, yes. Woo. By Anton Panikek in the you can find it in the Industrial Socialist Review, volume 10, number four.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Dave, was that your senior year?

SPEAKER_06 6:35

Well, I'm glad this is such an educational program. Um for us, it was uh a lot simpler than digging into that kind of research. Um we were just if if you've been a musician for long enough and have been in enough bands, you know how difficult it is to come up with a band name. And and the thing that's always wrong with your band name is it just has nothing to do with you. So, you know, at some point we were thinking, let's come up with something that that says something about us and and also something about the music. And at the time that I thought of this name, and and I do I have regretted it for many years, uh, but but at the time I was thinking, okay, um when I think of of us and our lifestyle, uh thinking about how the middle class for our parents was a certain at a certain place, and people were like upwardly mobile. Um now it was seeming that the middle class is downwardly mobile. So so we were thinking about our one-car garage and two cars and and thought that might be appropriate. And also, you know, we do have a bunch of socially conscious songs, and so we wanted to just get that flavor in the name as well. Yeah, cool. But we never thought of whether whether or not to put the in front of New Middle Class. It seems to mean something different.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Okay. You know, what I wanted to ask you guys were, you know, and and um we do all know each other, you know, we've known each other for two or three years. How did you guys meet? And was it musically that you guys met initially? Yeah, tell us, Barbara, tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

It's a long story which I will try to edit. But uh my first job out of college was for a music publishing company. And at the time, let's see, I was living with a couple friends in flushing. Uh, and at that time and and uh one of those people was a bass player. Okay. So um Mike had a band at the time called Lighthorse Harry, and uh his bass player of his band got a job in the office that I was working at. And it happened that that bass player wanted to go to a new band, so he wanted to form his own band. Mike wanted uh needed a new bit a new bass player, and so I said, Oh, well, my roommate plays bass and he wants to audition. So Mike brought the whole band to our apartment in flushing. And that's really when we met. I think so.

SPEAKER_06 9:13

So just in case you were taking notes, it's all about the bass.

SPEAKER_05 9:17

Yeah, there you go. Well, how how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_06 9:20

This was after college, I guess. 1977.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:23

Okay. We we know it was 1977 because uh because Barbara was always playing Talking Head 77 in the apartment. And the person below, the landlord below, would always complain about the bass.

SPEAKER_05 9:35

That was cool. So was there like instant harmony? Did you say this is my musical and romantic partner for the future?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

No. No. Uh no, you asked me out. Um it was instant something else.

SPEAKER_06 9:51

The harmony came later.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, no, but I remember our first date, we were uh we met uh at Lincoln Center and we went to the park, and the Duke Ellington band was playing that in the in the band show. Yeah. I mean, which is pretty amazing. Um but um yeah, uh, we went out and I guess I went to see his band and uh his band uh Lighthorse Harry and Oh sorry, what was it called? Light Horse Harry.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

Light Horse Harry, okay.

SPEAKER_06 10:19

And don't ask us what that name is.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Um and then uh I guess at a certain point um one of their backup singers wanted to leave and uh and that was seemed to be about the same time that I had this epiphany that I wanted to sing. So I uh auditioned for that band. Not in flushing though, in the Bronx.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Very cool. So I always wonder, you know, we know some other duos that are married, how does how does it work with you guys writing-wise and and does it interfere with the rest of your marriage?

SPEAKER_06 10:58

Or maybe maybe it helps. I mean, it's kind of the opposite. Um in terms of writing, uh, I'm the songwriter. Uh so Barbara's main contribution to songwriting is when I write something that's bad, she's gonna say, that sucks.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

And so I have to very nice. Barbara, do you come up with any subject matter that you want Mike to delve into?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah. Yes, there have been a couple songs that I um gave the subject matter. In fact, you you gave me one song credit once. Yes, on beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Yeah, because that was my I saw a little dig in in that comment there.

SPEAKER_06 11:35

No, you didn't see that.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

How about you give us another tune? What um you want to play something new or old or um okay.

SPEAKER_06 11:45

Well, we actually just released a new a new single uh and there's a video that goes with that. Um the name of the song is the truest kind of lie. And I guess let's talk a little bit about the about the video.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Yeah, because you guys have gotten into I know I think Barbara, you've been doing more of the video stuff recently. Yeah. Tell me, tell me about that and tell us about that, I mean.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Well, um, I started, I think my first like I'll call it art artsy kind of video was for Loch Ness Cafe, where I created all the images and put the lyrics and just it's it's really fun. Um, I just really enjoyed it, but it took me months and months and months. Um, and then I did something, um, I did a couple more, um, but I guess three videos ago, uh I tried using AI. Um yeah, roadkill rescue. Yeah, yeah. Um I I fell in love with the raccoons and uh in the video.

SPEAKER_06 12:56

Um I've been replaced by a raccoon.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah, yeah. Um and I, you know, I just I just I I'm a graphic designer by I mean that's what I have a degree in, but I've done many other had many other career choices over the years, but this sort of brings me back to all that. But the inspiration for for this particular video, this was Mike's uh concept for the video, and I just kind of I kind of took his ideas and put it together. So he had selected these impressionist paintings. I think he had Googled um truest kind of lie or truest lie, and he came up with these really beautiful paintings by um. Yeah. So he had this idea of like close-ups on the uh painting and uh on the paintings, and then like you know, it all comes together as like a puzzle. And so I put that together with the music, and this was a lyric video. Um, so I have all the lyrics and yeah, so let's play the song.

SPEAKER_06 14:09

Yeah the truest kind of lie.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

I know that you did nothing to deserve this, and love me was the mistake that you made. You thought that I was everything you wanted, and now you feel so betrayed. I only had the best of intentions. I hope you don't believe that I'm insincere. I only wanted to express the emotions I thought that you wanted to hear, and I'll always love you and I'll never leave you. Baby don't cry because it's the truth kind lie. I guess I only felt your love's reflection. I'm not the kind of girl who gets carried away, and all I have is what remains of the affection, the tear in my heart when I said that I always love you and I'll never leave you. Baby don't cry because it's the truth kind lie. Sometimes it's hard to find the honest thing to say. I don't understand it. I never planned it this way Well, maybe I'm afraid of being too revealing. Maybe my behavior is hard to defend, but if you find you lack the tender feeling, is it so cruel to pretend and you always love me? Say you forgive me, baby don't cry. Tell me the truth, come lie Tell it to me clearly, say it so sincere, baby, baby do cry. Tell me the truest kind of life.

SPEAKER_05 18:28

I do like that. What's the name of that?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Truest kind of life.

SPEAKER_05 18:35

Wow. So let's talk a little bit about writing. Mike, you said you write the songs, Barbara edits them.

SPEAKER_06 18:42

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

And opines on them and sings them with just such grace. Um when did you st when did you discover that you were a songwriter? And when did you come out as a songwriter?

SPEAKER_06 18:56

It it's a process. Um when I was back in college, um, I probably spent a lot of time playing with uh a good friend of mine named Dave Emiloch, who is an excellent songwriter. And uh we formed a band together, and and at some point I said, Yeah, let me try to write some songs you know for this group, which was called Greed.

SPEAKER_05 19:16

Greed? And this was back in the 60s?

SPEAKER_06 19:19

Uh yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:20

Or 70s?

SPEAKER_06 19:21

No, this would be 60s.

SPEAKER_05 19:23

Where was this? Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_06 19:24

Uh I grew up in the Bronx. Um, so I Dave and I went to City College. So this was probably around 68 or something like that. So, you know, so it yeah, it's been a process as I went through bands trying to come up with material that was appropriate to uh to to the sound that we were that we had in in each each band. So Lighthorse Harry was more of a country swing band, and uh so we played some original material that was in in those those veins, and then uh then we had a rock band, so I was writing some rock material and so forth.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

That's cool. Um so you now, when you write, you don't have just yourself in mind as a songwriter, that you're alone going to be singing these songs. So do you approach your writing now with Barbara in mind that you're gonna basically be doing duets most of the time or just switching off in verses, or how do you how do you look at it?

SPEAKER_06 20:35

Well, okay, so when we perform together, uh even if one or the other of us is doing the lead vocal, there's you know probably a major role for harmony on that. So I don't really think of it so much as my song, her song in in that sense. But in terms of lead vocals, yeah, um I I do try to write with a particular singer in mind. You usually it turns out that if if the song is really nasty and negative, I will sing it.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

And I think sometimes when he's writing a song for me, he he makes it really hard vocally.

SPEAKER_06 21:11

Yes, hard to sing songs. If I can't sing it, she's a singer.

SPEAKER_05 21:14

I've ever said, I'm not gonna sing that. I know you have you have a couple of risque songs. Oh, we do.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

You do. What I like about what with the way you're writing, though, is that you know you're not you're not stuck in one genre, you're not stuck in one subject matter. You know, you go, you have some stuff that is absolutely hilarious and and very versatile. And you guys, you know, um I can't think of the name of the song that I love so much that you guys sent to me that time. But you know, a lot of sentimental stuff also.

SPEAKER_05 21:45

So Up your alley, George.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

It's right up my alley.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

And the smart ass stuff, which is up my alley. But also, um, your album before the previous album, so before historic, you had Arguing with God, which seemed to be like You know, having known your music, I said, Oh, I don't where did this come from? Talk a little bit about faith and how faith has played in into your songwriting and you're performing as a duo.

SPEAKER_06 22:10

Um I'm not sure I can explain this, um, other than for for some reason there seem to be some songs you know pushing back on things that in in the Bible that that I just wanted to write a song about. Um and at some point, for example, uh I decided to write a song about the Tenth Commandment, uh, but from a modern point of view, and I said, gee, this this should be really interesting. Uh I tried to contact some other songwriters and and came up with the idea of let's put together an album of all ten commandments. So each each of us would do a couple of songs and then we'd all promote it together and and and and doing something biblical seemed like something special, something big, something the whole world would sit up and notice. So the first thing I noticed is that all the other songwriters didn't want to do it.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

It sounds like a very, very interesting project, though. Because there's so many, so many areas you could go.

SPEAKER_06 23:13

Uh well, okay, so George, it looks like we're we're gonna be doing that that project together.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Well, I have to think which commandment I'd like to break then. So that would be a good thing.

SPEAKER_05 23:22

Yeah, I mean, if you want to do the seven deadly sins, I'm in.

SPEAKER_06 23:26

Okay, so we had something going here. So when that when the Tenth Commandment or when the all the Ten Commandments album didn't work, I still said, still let me do something significant and important that will live on far beyond my lifetime. Uh and that's when I decided to put together a whole bunch of songs that I had previously written with faith or questioning faith. Uh, and then and and I knew I wanted to call it Arguing with God, because that's what the songs do. And then I had to to write a bunch of songs to fill the album, including a song called Arguing with God. So having done that, I still haven't been contacted by anybody up there.

SPEAKER_05 24:11

Good thing. But no cease and desist at least, you know, we're demanding of a like a co-write on those. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:17

And and and Barbara is in is in a choir also. So I kind of wanted to write a song from the point of view of somebody who is I you know was thinking about the expression preaching to the choir or preaching to the converted. And I just said, gee, wouldn't it be interesting to write a song about somebody who's in the choir but has some doubts? What would that be like? So that that's that's sort of the way I approach all my songwriting is I try to look at it from some opposite point of view that everybody else is is doing, and I try to I try to write character songs.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 24:55

Instead of being autobiographical, so many of these songs are characters.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

Yeah, that's cool. Do you sit down with an idea in mind, or do you I mean, and what usually comes first? Is there a first lyrics, first melody, or is it something that happens?

SPEAKER_06 25:11

Yeah, I I probably tend to tend to to go with lyrics before melody, but uh that's just a tendency, but I really try all different ways and all different instruments. The trick is to keep yourself open uh to different approaches.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

That's cool.

SPEAKER_05 25:28

And in your creative practice, I mean do you sit down every day, once a week, just casually you keep a guitar nearby?

SPEAKER_06 25:35

No, no. It's well the guitar is always nearby, yeah, and I I might pick it up. Um actually probably what slows me down is is that I do the recording myself in my home studio. And after a certain point, uh it just gets to be like, do I really want to write more songs or do I want to finish up and get these previous songs out to the world? So that kind of kind of slows me down a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

No, you seem to be pr quite prolific.

SPEAKER_05 26:02

Yeah, you've done what four four full albums is it's a few years. Five five full albums and a bunch of single releases and then your recent your most recent album is called Prehistoric, which is a great title considering what is Tell us a little bit, Barbara about how that album came to be.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Um we had a lot of songs uh previous to that we used to do like I'd say in the nineties, maybe the eighties, uh before we put out our first album, Numino Class, which was like around 2000, 1999, yeah. And Mike had, you know, a bunch of recordings. They weren't all completed, but he said, Oh, this will be well, I'll get this done really fast, and we'll be able to put up the album in like two months. I'm like, okay, great. Um but um it was really um it was really fun rediscovering these songs and also learning how to reinterpret them, yeah, and then like uh learning how to play them again. That was like a lot of work.

SPEAKER_05 27:07

So they're all new recordings then.

SPEAKER_06 27:09

No, a lot of them were old recordings, and some of them are some of them are partially old and new, and some of them are brand new. So it's a mix.

SPEAKER_05 27:18

That's an interesting idea, like for a young person to do half a duet and wait until they're old to have the other half.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

I think it's too late. Well, you never know, Dave. I think you can do it. So I wanted to have you guys tell everybody where they can find your music and your, you know, your socials is what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Uh newmiddleclass.com is our website, and there are l links to all of our videos on that, uh, which are also on YouTube and uh we're and we're on Spotify and uh what are all the Apple, all the other all the other things. Okay, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

That's that sounds great.

SPEAKER_05 28:01

Before we ask you for a final song, one thing I wanted to ask you about is I I've noticed that you visit a lot of folk festivals and you've performed at a lot. And you know, we're very interested here, not just in the clubs and in the recordings, but in the the whole scene. What w what is it that you like about the folk festival scene and why should people who haven't visited, say, um, you know, Falcon Ridge or any of the others, why should they why should they check them out?

SPEAKER_06 28:30

Um I think it's about you know being open to new music, being exposed to new music. Uh live music is just great. So it's it's just no substitute for um for recorded music. And and it's a community. Community. You know, you you you go to see concerts or or performances, and then afterwards there are you know, there are fires or or campfires or whatever, and everybody sits around and and shares their music. So that is uh you know a great experience.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Yeah. Fantastic. So um you guys, would you like to close us out with one? And again, you're listening to this podcast. It's called Acoustic Northeast, and our guests that you've been listening to is New Middle Class, Mike and Barbara Borak.

SPEAKER_06 29:15

I should also mention that we do have we we're been concentrating on recording the next album, um, but we do have a couple of of shows that are booked, if that's okay to mention. Of course. Um we're going to be at the Edenville General Store uh in Warwick, New York on October 18th. Uh and we got a couple of things through uh the Music for Humanity organization. There's one on December 11th at the Common Good in Ellenville, New York. And uh I was a judge in the Music for Humanity uh songwriting contest this year. Uh and you're a previous winner, yeah. And I'm a previous first prize winner, that's right. Uh and on December 19th, there's going to be a a judge's concert, so I get to play with uh with the other two judges, and that should be a fun show as well.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Very cool. And our good, our good um Dave and I are part of a what we call ourselves, a troupe. The four horsemen songwriters. And uh one of our buddies, Dave, Dave uh David Ray, got uh honorable honorable mention in there or something. He did. He did, yeah. So anyway.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

Um Barbara Borg take us out with the song.

SPEAKER_06 30:28

Okay, here's uh here's another character song. I have to say that so everybody doesn't think this is me. This one is uh a kind of a deep cutoff of our second album. The the album's called uh What's That Thing. I know I forgot your birthday. I know I forget them all. And when I miss dinner cause I'm working late, I know I oughta remember the call, but really isn't so important. These things are easy to forget, and there's so much that I have to do. You forget things too, I bet. Guilty, I'm guilty, I feel bad about the situation. Guilty, I'm guilty, guilty with an explanation. I should try to control my temper. I should try to control my tongue, and though I feel ashamed, I can't be blamed. It could happen to anyone. It's just a fact of evolution. We're all descended from the beasts. And when you make me mad, I can't help myself. The beast must be really guilty, I'm guilty. It was hormonal overstimulation. Guilty, I'm guilty, guilty with an explanation. Yes, I feel guilty, I feel remorse, and I feel bad for you, of course. I don't wanna fight or an expensive divorce. I'm just a victim of a biological force. I know I should have been faithful, but I cheated and I got caught. You got the right to be mad, I guess, but it was really not my fault. It was a momentary lapse of judgment and irresistible fascination. You see, God created beauty, and the devil turned it into temptation. Guilty, I'm guilty, I had the means and the motivation. Dilty, I'm guilty, guilty with an explanation, guilty, I'm guilty.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

There was a positive identification identification, I plead guilty, guilty with an explanation, guilty with an X, guilty with an X, guilty with an explanation.