The Poacher Who Can’t Stop Himself

#1015: Coach Greg Dedrick talks about what happens when a poaching partner gets too greedy — and how to handle a partner who cannot curb his own appetite to hit your balls!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Pickleball Obsession. Pickleball Obsession is the first podcast created to support recreational picklers at every skill level who want answers to their questions because the more a rec player knows, the better they'll play. Do you watch pro pickleball on YouTube thinking it will help you, but wonder why your game doesn't look at all like Annalie or Ben John's? Everybody on a pickleball court is obsessed to some degree. So whether you're a social player out there just to have fun or a competitive one trying to sharpen your skills and win more, this podcast is for you. This show will bring you short, useful advice from a variety of certified pickleball coaches that any amateur player can put right to use. I'm your host, Tracy Hotner. You might know me as the pet wellness expert on NPR, Sirius, and my own pet podcast network. But here I'm no expert, just another admittedly obsessed player. Sign up for the weekly episodes and embrace the obsession. I am back with Greg Dietrich, my very own coach, the manager of Shoe Pickleball Club, coach of many people, coach of many coaches, and a wonderful person to play with, which is, I don't know if that's true of all coaches, Greg, but you are delightful to play with. One of the things you don't do, which you could do more of, is poach. When you're playing with a person who's less good than you. Now, I don't know if you play with someone as good or better than you. There aren't that many people better than you. I mean, in the world there are, but not in our, you know, in our sphere. But let's talk about poaching because I think that some men, and I I maybe there's women who do it, but I'm just gonna say some men. Some men do it, and they don't just do it to women, they do it to other men, and I'm not sure they always do it appropriately. Because poaching seems a very specific thing to pickleball. It's different in tennis. Um, not that we're shopping and comparing the two sports, but poaching in pickleball, especially in mixed doubles when the man is stronger. The man is are you expected to poach?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

You are.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

So I mean, like you just said, I'm not a big poacher. Um, right? We're we're not pro players where where my skill level is so amazing. And even at the pro level, sometimes I find it you know a little absurd. Um, because the women are also pro players. Yes. You know, in an open play situation, maybe you get mashed up with a teammate who's a little bit weaker. But that's open play. So I don't really love the idea of poaching there either. And if I'm playing in a tournament or a league setting where I pick my teammate, ideally I'm teaming up with someone who I trust to make good decisions and good shots. And by me poaching, I I will often find myself or my opponents just out of position.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Right. I mean, that's the that's the problem. Let's say you're on the left side, I'm on the right side, you right? So now you're you're a righty, you're your four hands in the middle. So it it can be very tempting for a man, might be taller, might be stronger, might be quicker, just might be better skill level, to reach pretty far over to the woman side, if you will, or the weaker player side in open play, and just sort of like help out. But it sometimes it really throws me off or the person who's being poached on off, because now, oh wait, I thought that was my shot. Okay, now that you took it, oh, you made a great shot. But what comes next? That's the problem, is what if they hit if they send it back at me, you've just taken my shot. So I'm like, oh, phew, I had a break, but not really, because now surprise.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Right, exactly. Um, I uh you know, when I do poach, it's a little more strategic than just being big in the middle. You know, if I'm on the left side, maybe I'm hitting a sharp cross-court dink a couple times, I'm pushing that opponent off the court where they're then either gonna bring it straight up the line to you, or I'm gonna be big in the middle. So I'm not necessarily on top of you because we've shifted as a team.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

If we're playing kind of straight up and my forehand in the middle, of course I'm gonna be a little more aggressive, but I would expect the same of my partner when they're on the left-hand side.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

But being aggressive in the middle is quite different from the kind of poaching we're talking about, moving fully into my space, if you will. Right. I mean, there is a center line, right? The center line is there mostly for serving to designate the service box or this or the line to serve on, but it does sort of make it cuts the court right in half. So, at what point does a an a partner who is reaching way over with their feet, with their body, with their arm, to take, let's call it my shot. Not because I'm you know way in the wrong position for it, just because they're like, I like that shot, I want that shot. I'm gonna do that shot better than her. I think a lot of us have had the experience of somebody being, would you call it, greedy or arrogant? That's what it comes across as. Like, wait a minute, that was right in my strike zone. I had a good plan for that. Yeah, isn't that that's a little different than just being big in the middle and helping out if your partner's, you know, a little out of position or hasn't gotten up in time.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Right. And I think I think there are two very distinct um poachers, you know, when you see them. And it is the people who I don't want to call them greedy, but you know, they're there are very aggressive players, whether or not they think you're a weaker teammate or not, those players are just oftentimes aggressive poachers. Yes. And then there are other times where it's it's more strategic poaching. You know, it's a it's a play when maybe your teammate is slightly off the line. And I do this a lot even from the right side to kind of keep people on their toes. If maybe my teammate's a little off the line and I'm able to get in there with a quick backhand that the other team didn't expect. Yes. You know, but if you're just poaching over and over again, unless you're consistently putting them in places that your opponent can't get, eventually they're gonna start to read that and they're gonna take advantage of it. Um, and I think you see that a lot more with those greedy poachers.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, I think we have to call them greedy poachers. There's a a guy that that I used to play with, and he would just sort of laugh and smirk afterwards. He would almost occupy my entire half of the court. Well, you know, and whether he made the shot or not almost becomes irrelevant. Hey, we all came out here to play pickleball if you don't mind. So I'm glad that you enjoyed that. But meanwhile, as you said, the opponents are now gonna say, well, you both are crowded over here, so we're gonna put it way over there where the guy should have been, could have been, might have been. And now but he's like, oh, but he had the great moment of being the great conqueror on the woman's side.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Right. And you know, in an open plays, you get the one-offs sometimes where maybe you and I only get paired up once, right? And that person is just that person. But I I think I think if you're talking about poaching as a team, you play with this person often. You know, my my philosophy is I'm looking to empower my teammates. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

You know, and the same thing. I I look for you to hit good shots to kind of get me going. Um, and I know that's not everybody's strategy.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Um I I think one of the problems is you play a lot of tournaments. I used to play a lot of tournaments. There's no problem in that. The problem is that most of us play open play almost all the time. And if we're lucky, we have a core group of people, like a true pickleball club, call it 50, 100 people who are there more or less rotating in and out every single day of the week at various times. So we know each other by name, we say hi. Some people play in a way you think, oh God, there's the lobber, oh my god, there's the smasher. But really, we all like each other and we all deal with the the shots that get thrown around. But however, if there is somebody, and uh that doesn't happen to be true at True Pickleball, which is unusual, because I played in a lot of outdoor, not even with an official paddle rack. Like who's up next, and then there's sort of people who are crabby about it, or there's a table you put it down on, or a bench, and like which what is it going from the left to the right, the right to the left, you know? You really don't know who you're gonna play with. You have no control over it. In those situations when you're playing with a complete stranger, and the stranger thinks, yeah, I'm just gonna drive over the double yellow line, help myself to what's over there. I I think that that's probably not okay, not kosher, kind of.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, I mean, it's difficult because a lot of times you play, like you said, the lobber. You know, sometimes you just play against people whose styles you don't enjoy, but it becomes a very different scenario when this person is now on your team.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

So that really changes things that way. Um, to me, it to me, in an in an open place kind of situation, unless you're on some kind of challenger court, right? Coaching consistently is not something you should be doing because, like you said earlier, we're all there to play. Yeah, you know, sure. Sometimes your momentum, you hit a great shot and you kind of feel your body, you you know where that ball's coming back, and you anticipate it, and you hop in front of your teammate and you put the ball away and you're like, and I think in that scenario, your teammate is probably gonna be like, hey, yes, off the job. Yes, but when you're consistently jumping in front of somebody, weaker or not, it I agree, it's not really kosher, it's not really something you should be doing because how is that player ever going to get better if they're not consistently getting balls that they're allowed to hit too and kind of work their way through things?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Right, and and maybe they'll do a good job and maybe they won't, but we'll never know. It's a open way, right? Right, and the poacher very often blows it. Ah, because they've reached so far, so far, and also the ball is coming at an angle where the physics don't work. You can't reach all the way over there for a ball that's basically coming directly at your part their partner, and they're reaching or kind of like around it, and the best they're gonna do is something popped up, something weak, something attackable by the other team for them to have that moment of rushing in into the burning building kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Right, you know, I mean, of course, some play, you know, there will always be sometimes when you can put it away. Um, and then sometimes people poach just to dink as well, and that's what kind of where I'm like That's cool. You know, you see that a lot in the pro game.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

A lot of so cool because it's a big surprise element. You think they're gonna poach and put it away, and they poach and they reset it. It changes the the dynamic, it changes the speed of everything. And now everybody's on their heels and has to re-strategize, which is what's interesting. Right. So I guess what we're saying is that if you have a consistent partner and you both know that that poaching is part of the way you work together, and it's delightful, and you both expect it. And exactly and and the person being poached upon, if you will, gives the room. Doesn't hold their ground and then give a look later like, hey, what was that? It it's just the opposite. They're like, nice, thank you. Because that poacher knows they got to get back on their side pretty damn quickly, you know, to keep to keep the team safe. Or you have something like myself and Jimmy, who's a much better player, and we're in a flex league together, and it's a four point one or two flex league, and we're stacking. So we're setting ourselves up so he can poach as much as humanly possible. Because he's really he's got a really good reach and great reflexes. He does sometimes overreach on a poach. He tries for something that wasn't physically possible. But is that a kind of danger in the case of a scenario of a team that can happen, and then you just shrug and go, oh well.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

You know, I think it's really about consistency and how your partner is feeling. You know, um, I'm not a big poacher, as we discussed. I've got a I've got a female partner, uh, Marina, who I play with a lot. And I I'm not I'm not a big I'm not a big poacher, but sometimes you're you're kind of in the groove and you're kind of going, and and she we have learned over time um just to kind of feel it out.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

No, like she she sort of knows when I'm going to speed up, when I'm going to date, when I'm going to be aggressive in terms of a coach. Um, so I think that's really key. So like if your partner is doing that and just winds up out of position sometimes, that's part of the game. If you're if your partner is poaching and it gets you out of sync, well, then I have to start wondering how effective that strategy is in that moment, right? Because in the end, it kind of needs to work as a whole for both people.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

And the other thing is, let's say the person poaches on you, and you both think that's perfectly fine because you do know each other. And even if you've played half a dozen open play games together, you're like, I know how this guy plays, I'm okay with it. Because he means well and he's a good player, but the problem is that he then blocks my view sometimes. He he poaches my ball. Now I'm I'm flying blind. I now have an impediment in front of me. It's a human. And the ball's gonna come back possibly, and it could easily come back to me, at which point I I I'm not gonna see it until it might be too late. So, or he's gotta hold his ground and play the next ball, too.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

So I think I think that's big. A lot of times, if I if I am aggressive and posting at the net with my teammate, um the goal is to hopefully put it away. But if it's not, I'll just keep going. Yes, three, four shots, because I don't want to put my teammate now at a disadvantage. Now, if they hit back behind me, then I'll get over and I'll try to reset to get back there. But once I've made that aggressive move to poach, you kind of have to keep going because, like you said, if all of a sudden I jump out of the way, the ball comes flying at you.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Hello. Yeah, you know, yeah, that's a really great point. So poaching has its place, but it's something you have to both be comfortable about, even have acknowledged, talked about. And if a person poaches a lot and says they're sorry each time, and we're talking a game to nine in open play, and now they've done it six times, that's a fake sorry, okay? Because they're just doing it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

So yeah, it's like somebody who lobs nonstop. It's the same thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Exactly. And they never apologize, darn it, because that's how lobbers are. And we've done a show on on lobbing, and that's a whole nother that's that's worthy of several more shows because it's out there in the amateur pickleball, it's not there in the pro pickleball. Um but but we we can't hit people with with uh a stick saying, hey, the pros don't do it, because the whole point is we're not pros. Greg Dietrich, this has been really helpful. Those of you that want to poach, make sure that your partner is jiggy with it. That's that's only fair, and do a really good job when you do it, right? Thanks a lot, Greg.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Thank you, Tracy.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope it will help you get up to the kitchen faster, dink with a purpose, and help you win paddle battles. Please sign up on the newsletter for the weekly episodes so you can embrace the obsession and take part in special giveaways from companies that love us picklers.