Pickleball Obsession
Pickleball advice and insight for recreational players who want to play better and understand the game. Hosted by obsessed amateur Tracie Hotchner, each episode delivers short, useful answers from certified pickleball pros that actually apply to your game.
Pickleball Obsession
Take it out of the Air or Let it Bounce?
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#1021: Coach Greg Dedrick, the manager at True Pickleball Club, explains how to make a rapid determination about whether to take a mid-court ball out of the air, or take a step back and let it bounce before hitting it. Attacking a ball sooner gives your opponents less time to react, but if you take it as a volley, you need to be stable and in a good position if they make a fast return.
Welcome to Pickleball Obsession. Pickleball Obsession is the first podcast created just for recreational picklers, because the more a rec player knows, the better they'll play. Do you watch pro pickleball on YouTube thinking it will help you, then wonder why your game doesn't look at all like Annalise or Ben John's? Everybody on a pickleball court is obsessed to some degree. So the Pickleball Obsession podcast is for you whether you're a social player, out there just to have fun, or a competitive one trying to sharpen your skills and win more. This show will bring you short, useful advice from a variety of certified pickleball coaches that amateur players at any skill level can put right to use. I'm your host, Tracy Hotner. You might know me as the pet wellness expert on NPR, Sirius, and my own pet podcast network, but here I'm no expert, just another admittedly obsessed player picking the brains of top coaches for advice we can all use. This show is brought to you in partnership with the IPTPA, the International Pickleball Teachers Professional Association, and with the Association of Pickleball Players, the APP Tournaments. Sign up at pickleballobsession.net for the weekly episodes with show notes and embrace the obsession. I am back with Greg Dietrich, my coach and the manager of True Pickleball Club. If you wonder where he is, he's in True Pickleball Club. It used to be an entire Kmart. And Mike Bibo and his partner turned this into a state-of-the-art, amazing place. If anyone is ever near Latham, New York, you just show up and you will be shown such a hearty welcome and a great time. So that's why that strange-looking building is actually purpose-built for pickleball. You can see little humans in the background playing pickleball. I already feel jealous. This is one of the problems about pickleball.
SPEAKER_01It is a obsession. We hear from Toronto, Canada, right now, who just rolled it in.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's very cool. That's great. I hope more and more people will discover it and find out that it's kind of the pinnacle of what we all would dream of a pickleball club or court space being like. Greg, one of the things that I you see people not sure. And of course, there's many iterations of is the ball up in the air, do I hit it out of the air or do I let it bounce? And we're not just talking about gigantic overheads. We're talking about various kinds of balls. And sometimes people take two steps back even, backpedal, to let it bounce and then take it off the bounce. It's not an easy question to ask you because each ball is unique in a sense. But let's just start with a lob, not the world's most amazing lob that's got huge arc, lands exactly on the baseline, and there's no chance to let that bowl drop and then hit it. You gotta take it out of the air or they win the point. But like a mid-court lob, either they're not very good lobbers, which is good, I want them to be punished for lobbing. People know I'm allergic to lobs, or it just didn't go well. So should you always take it out of the air? And and if not, why not?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you know my philosophy pretty much about all pickleball shots, right? Um you you kind of find something that's comfortable for you, right? And I don't really like to change it, you know, and and like you said, every single shot is different. You're never going to meet the same shot, ever. Out of all the thousands and maybe millions at this point of shots we've hit, there's always something slightly different. Um but a mid-court LOP, something like that, to me, that's a ball that you should probably take out of the air because you and your partner should be able to start reading LOPS, you know, as you start to advance. Yes. And the moment that ball goes up in the air, one of us, whether it's me running behind you or you starting to backpedal, we've we've made a read on it, right? Yes. Um, even if we're a little late on it, if it only ends up in the mid-court, you should be able to get your body behind that ball so then you can strike it out of the air. Will there be times that maybe you just run around that ball, you let it drop, you happen to notice that your opponents are back, and you're like, hey, I'm gonna let it bounce and I'm gonna take a rip on it. Sure. You know, I think a lot of it might also have to do with where your opponents were when they lobbed it.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_01Right? Sure. Um so, but for me, a ball that I get lobbed where somebody didn't get a great lob and it's kind of in the mid-court, I almost always take that out of the air. Um, and as you know, I don't move particularly well.
SPEAKER_00Well, you don't move particularly poorly. Come on. No, I mean you know you've ruined your back by overdoing it, but you I've seen you move like a jackrabbit, so I'm not gonna say you don't move well.
SPEAKER_01But but you know, the basics are as long as our movements are relatively crisp and our footwork is decent, I believe that you should be able to get get behind that ball so that you can take it out in front of it. So most of the time, I would probably take that ball out of the air.
SPEAKER_00And that means it's what the other people will expect you to do, and especially your partner. Because if you backpedal and let it bounce and then take it, your partner's confused. I mean, this happened to me once in a tournament in Naples, Florida. Somebody's coming to chew pickleball and and and interrupting you. But we want more people to play because it just keeps the place vibrant and it keeps the lights on. We have very good lights, so we want to keep the good quality of lights. So I we were talking about letting a ball bounce and then hitting it. And you're really on a back foot. You've really let the ball play you. And this happened to me once in a tournament. I didn't know that my partner had hurt his shoulders somehow. He didn't say to me, I'm not gonna go for the overheads. So I'm expecting the person to go up for an overhead and he's going back and then just, you know, doing this kind of push, poke, or even semi-drive, but it's not what you expect. So, as a partner, if you expect your your partner to take an overhead and they don't take it out of the air, it does throw off your expectation and rhythm for what's gonna happen next, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so that's one of the big things I do. And at first I thought, um, maybe I'm being annoying, and then I just I I talk to people. So when that ball goes up, like at the lob, yes, towards my opponent, I am immediately screaming, if as long as I can see at the ball that that going over that, hit it. Hit it. Because I want us to have, I want us to keep that advantage. Now, sometimes people will run around it.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01I would rather my teammate strike that ball out of the air with me hanging tight at the kitchen, because it's gonna catch my opponent a little off guard, and then maybe they're probably gonna try to punch it back to my my teammate who's running. That's a ball that I like to poach a lot.
SPEAKER_00That's interesting.
SPEAKER_01Well, then step in because they're not expecting it. Um, so one of the big things I do on lobs, which which in my mind has always been really annoying, but my teammates claim it's not, is when that ball goes up, if I am confident that ball is going to land in. It's not going wide, it's not going deep, I'm yelling, hit it. Now, sometimes are they just gonna have to run behind it and let it bounce? Of course. Right. But I want them to know, hey, Greg thinks this ball is in. If I can strike this ball, he wants me to hit it. I want us to try to keep the advantage as opposed to them taking advantage and having the momentum based off that law.
SPEAKER_00Because I think what's interesting about that is that if people were to let it drop solely because they hoped, not thought, but hoped it would land out, that puts them in a terrible uh defensive position. I hadn't even thought of that, of letting it bounce in order to see if it stays in. I meant just, did you think you could get out of the air, or maybe it's a safer shot? It always seemed like this safe shot when people let it drop, not even a lob, just like a mid-court shot. That instead of moving forward and grabbing it as even as a low volley, they let it drop and then come up, and then they hit it. But they've given all this extra time to the opponents who hit it.
SPEAKER_01Right. And now now you're all the way at the baseline. Yeah. Right? And now it's like, okay, we just run back there. And now I've got behind it. And now in this moment I'm thinking, okay, can I hit a beautiful drop?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Or am I gonna or am I gonna drive it where my opponents are now standing at the kitchen line ready to block it? Where I feel like if you take the ball out of the air, even if you didn't take it out of the air super cleanly, we're putting just a little more pressure by taking that overhead, we're putting the pressure back on them a little bit where your shot doesn't have to be as good as it did all the way back from the baseline. That's right. And again, every situation is different, but that's kind of where I settle on things.
SPEAKER_00But you have the added benefit that if you can turn your arm, your paddle, your body enough, you can now hit it away. You don't have to hit it right into the middle of the court. You can hit it away at an angle, which is one of the great things about an overhead. A lot of us, uh I'm saying me, but I've seen other people do it, we just hit these pretty good, clean, hard overheads straight down the middle. And then they just come back to us again. Exactly. Again. So really we want to get it off the court, or at least get the other player off the court scrambling to create some space, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We can only do that with an overhead. We can't do it if we let the ball bounce. They now are in the catbird seat. They've they've hit the ball, now they're up, or they've changed their position, now you're waiting for it to bounce, and it's got to bounce up. It seems to me that letting it bounce rather than taking out of the air, and I'm not only talking about overheads, I'm talking about these mid-level, they're above the net, but not by a lot. And people let those drop, or even the ones that are headed to your feet. What about those? That's another one. Do you let that bounce? Now you're really hamstrung. They've it's bounced at your feet or close to it. Now you've got to cope. Whereas if you'd gotten low and you even just gently done some sort of a dink, even if it's a little bit attackable, right? With the two-e backhand or something really soft and kind of shaped it. So I'm not sure letting it drop unless you're in desperate straits ever makes much sense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, again, every every ball is different. Um, but on lobs, like we said, I'd love to take it out of there. In the mid-court, um, it's the same thing. I I like to get really low, and and I love to get low. I like to get two hands on my paddle, and I'm a big, I'm a big resetter, right? I'm I'm taking the I've got a great base, I'm getting my hands out, I have a loose grip on my paddle, and I'm trying to reset it. Of course, some of them are gonna be out in front of me a little bit, and maybe I've got to get it off the short hop.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01But I'm still in the same base position. I'd love to take it out of the air. And if we're low, and if we're in that mindset, and then we kind of get that that nothing ball, right? They didn't crush it at me and they didn't get it low, and it just sort of floats, I'm now able to kind of explode up and maybe do a blind punch almost, right? So we're able to, if we're kind of in the mindset of I'm gonna be low and I'm gonna volley this ball from low, and now when you get that ball that they didn't hit just right, you can now start to see those attacks come a little bit cleaner as opposed to if you're upright and like, hey, I'll just reach down when it comes here. If we just start low with the mindset of, hey, we're gonna try to volley a ball, whether that's a reset or whether that's an attack, but we're in the mindset that we're gonna volley it. I think it really kind of puts us in a in a better spot.
SPEAKER_00It puts you in a more assertive spot, not necessarily aggressive, but more assertive, more like I'm gonna take charge of the ball of this point. And by not ex not saying, I'll let it bounce, it always seems to me like a cheap out. If I let it bounce, if I let it bounce, you know, then I I won't make a fool of myself if I don't make a really nice shot on the one I'm taking out of the air because it maybe was dropping. But on the other hand, you let it bounce and you've kind of taken away from your own game. You've kind of undermined yourself. You've given them some kind of a gift.
SPEAKER_01Right, because the attack is certainly going to be a little more difficult for us off the bounce there. Yeah. Um unless they really hit a garbage ball, but we're not that's not what we're we're not looking for garbage, yeah. Right. Anybody can do something good off a garbage ball. We're talking about they've got us stuck in transition, yeah, and they're playing a decent ball, and so we need to find a way to take control. And and the easiest way to likely do that is to volley it. And whether that's a beautiful reset or attack off of it, if we can do both of those things off a volley, every time that ball comes to us, they're now thinking, hey, is he is he about to reset here? Right. Oh, is he about to punch the like it, you know, it just gives us some more, some more options as opposed to if I short hop that ball every time, it's pretty much always going to be a reset off that short hop.
SPEAKER_00And it you've taken your game down, and you've taken your game down a couple of notches. Which isn't to say that people on the way up, let's say uh beginners, novice, uh low intermediate, this is harder for them. So if you're listening and that's where you are in your game, understand that embracing going at the ball, going for the ball is part of what's going to make you a better player. Not being passive and letting the ball play you. That's that I that's one thing I've found in the last even six months. Being assertive with the ball, I own this ball. I'm going to bring my weight and my body and my arm and my eyes and everything forward and go for it, even if the go-for-it is a soft reset. It makes you play better than letting it bounce.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think that's really important too, because then um once we get up to the net, which I'm sure was probably where you were going next. Um we have a local player and instructor who I who I really respect, Diego. He's terrific. Um, and I've worked with him a little bit here and there, and he's always very much, let's take the ball out of the air. Interesting. Right? Always take it out of the air. It gives your opponent slightly less time to react. And for quite a while, I tried that method. Um, and although I have pretty good touch and pretty good hands, I found that I I had slightly less control out of the air.
SPEAKER_00Interesting, sure.
SPEAKER_01And I found myself popping it up a little bit. Um now of it's great for attacks, of course, right? Taking the ball out of the air there. Um, but I'm talking about like a dink where I'm getting low and trying to volley a dink back. Um, so what I found is that if you're comfortable taking it out of the air, I I tell my my clients, my students, if you're comfortable taking the ball out of the air and you're doing great things with it, terrific. That's your move.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01If you're really struggling to control that ball a little bit and you're you're almost reacting to it by taking it out of the air, right? You're not you're not taking control. You're like, I'm supposed to take this ball out of the air, so that's what I'm doing. Right. Then I then I love the idea of letting it bounce, giving yourself that little breath and going like, where do I want to put this ball now with my dick?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01You know? So I I'm big, I'm really big about taking the ball out of the air everywhere as I'm moving forward, as much as you can and you're comfortable with it. And then once you get to the net, I really think it's about taking control at the net.
SPEAKER_00Definitely.
SPEAKER_01And I do think you're able to do that in both ways. And I I respect the opinion of take it out of the air because it gives your opponents less time. But if I'm taking it out of the air and hitting a shot that I don't love, well, it doesn't matter how much less time I gave them because I just hit a lousy shot and now I'm gonna eat that ball.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you are. You're gonna have that for breakfast. And I th and I agree that once you're at the kitchen, you mostly see I'm talking at the high amateur level. I'm not talking about the pros two, because that's the whole point of my pickleball obsession. It doesn't matter what they do. They're gods, they're goats, they're not us. Right. But I I see at the most high level of amateur play, everybody at the kitchen lets it drop. If they're dinking, cross-court dinking, they let it drop. Very rare to take it out of the air because the, as you said, the chance of putting it up just a little bit, and then it's a put away for the other people. So the bounce is your friend.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's a lot about it's a lot about the feel of the ball, where they where your opponent is hit it, where your opponents are positioned. Um and some people are just really comfortable, even even players who aren't like the top, like I've seen people, I've seen people hovering around four who are very comfortable taking the ball out of the air, thinking, and I'm like, terrific. And I've seen plenty of players who are four or five where they're taking the ball out of the air, and I'm like, man, if you just let that ball bounce, yes, you would have won that point. You know, I so so it's not a one-size-fits-all. I I'm big on that, and you know that. Um, so for Diego, he's terrific. I've seen him take balls out of the air, and I'm like, wow. For me, I'm just slightly more comfortable letting it bounce. I feel like I'm more in control and I'm less reactionary, unless it's the ball I want to attack out of the air. Um, if it's just kind of a dinking battle, I prefer to let it bounce, and then I feel like I just have more control. I can put the ball where I want it. It gives me kind of a reset mentally, it gives my my teammate a chance where I'm not just bottling the ball out of the air. Maybe they're not in a great position. Right. And maybe that's the fast for them.
SPEAKER_00If you take it out of the air, it's gonna come back faster to both of you. And a little a little more time to reorganize is something you and the partner both need. That makes a lot of sense. That you really have to have your own comfort level. You can't push yourself past it. Even if you're a really good player, you have to trust your gut instincts. Oh, I hit really good shots if I let that out wide backhand dink. If I let it drop, I could hit back some beauty shots, and at some point I'll get one through the middle. But if I try and take it out of the air, I'm gonna probably rush. I'm just gonna rush myself. It doesn't feel natural to me, is what you're saying. Right.
SPEAKER_01And that's the beauty of pickleball, right? Um, we get a lot of students who come here, come through here, and I'm like, guys, the the great part about pickleball is there's no real right way to play. Like everybody has their own style, everybody has a way that they like to have their backhand dink or their forehand or their third shot drop. And like you just you just have to find what's comfortable for you. So I'm never like you have to do this every time.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Sure, I'm sure there are ideas that I think are good, but in the end, you need to find a shot that works the best for you and your teammate in any given moment.
SPEAKER_00Or you can be like me who says to whoever I'm playing with, should I have taken that out of the air? Should I have let that one bounce? You know, I mean, we all do that. So questioning yourself is good. If you weren't sure whether you should have let it bounce or take it out of the air, we're not talking overheads, we're talking mid-court, even transition zone, or at the at the kitchen, ask yourself. And if you ask someone who gives you some feedback that's useful, good. Otherwise, just talk to yourself.
SPEAKER_01Right. And also remember a lot of times you can hit the right shot and it still didn't go your way. And that's okay. As long as you've got a plan and your your fundamentals are basically good, your footwork is good, like even really good players miss shots sometimes. Oh, you know, as long as you're you're taking a shot that you were comfortable with, that your teammate was comfortable with, you're on the show. That's all you can really hope to do, you know?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Greg, this has been really helpful. So if you ever wonder, should I let it bounce? Should I take it out of the air? There is no absolute answer, and you'll get to do another one again soon, and you'll have a different answer the next time. Thank you, Greg Dietrich. Take care. Thanks, Tracy. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. I'm proud of our partnership with the APP, the Association of Pickleball Players, which provides world-class pickleball competitions for players of all ages and skill levels, professionals, amateurs, and recreational. I'm also grateful for our partnership with the IPTPA, which is the world leader in developing standards and certifying coaches across the world in dozens of countries and on every continent, except Antarctica. I hope this show will get you up to the kitchen faster, dink with a purpose, and help you win paddle battles. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform and sign up at pickleballobsession.net to get the podcast and the show notes by email every week. Embrace the obsession.