Bye Bye Backswing

#1022: IPTPA Master Pro Lisa Palcic talks about a common flaw even in advanced players, especially in former tennis players, who transition to pickleball and bring their backswing with them. She explains how there should be no "take back" in pickleball except from the baseline. All other shots coming to the kitchen — and once you're there — should start and stay out in front of you. If you can always see the paddle before hitting, you'll have better timing for the shot and recover more quickly for what comes back at you. The backswing just holds you back.

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Pickleball Obsession. Pickleball Obsession is the first podcast created just for recreational picklers, because the more a rec player knows, the better they'll play. Do you watch pro pickleball on YouTube thinking it will help you? Then wonder why your game doesn't look at all like Annalise or Ben John's? Everybody on a pickleball court is obsessed to some degree. So the Pickleball Obsession podcast is for you, whether you're a social player, out there just to have fun, or a competitive one trying to sharpen your skills and win more. This show will bring you short, useful advice from a variety of certified pickleball coaches that amateur players at any skill level can put right to use. I'm your host, Tracy Hotschner. You might know me as the pet wellness expert on NPR, Sirius, and my own pet podcast network, but here I'm no expert, just another admittedly obsessed player picking the brains of top coaches for advice we can all use. This show is brought to you in partnership with the IPTPA, the International Pickleball Teachers Professional Association, and with the Association of Pickleball Players, the APP Tournaments. Sign up at pickleballobsession.net for the weekly episodes with show notes and embrace the obsession. Hey Lisa Palsick. You are an ex-tennis player, as am I, as are many people on the pickleball court, which is why the complete illustrated guide to pickleball is more important for tennis players. Lisa wrote it. It's awesome. I know I say this every time I talk to you, but I always feel like if it didn't weigh so much, I mean it's this substantial book. I should take like a, I don't know, a shopping bag worth of them to True Pickleball Club and say, who wants a book? Get your hot copy right here. So many people could benefit from it and enjoy it. I mean, it's a great, it's a great book. As an ex-tennis player at a high level, what is one of the most important things that we did when we were hitting the ball, other than a volley, which in singles, you don't even hit that many anymore with the way the game has evolved. A big old backswing, one of the most important things you're taught. Put your left hand out and your back on a forehand and your backhand, and then you sweep through it up across your shoulder, and aren't you pretty when you hit the tennis ball? And it's and it's and there's strings on the racket, amazingly. And so the ball is brushing up, you know, with its great top spin or whatever it might be, or slice on the ball. And that's the opposite of what we should be doing at pickleball. And so the back swing is uh a game killer, it's a shot killer. But so many ex-tennis players like to hang back. Right. They didn't quite get the memo that pickleball is played at the kitchen, it's won or lost at the kitchen. So they hang back in the backcourt and they take these monster big back swings, and it works maybe for the return of serve, maybe, maybe for a third shot. But then after that, it's gonna it it's also a signal to the person receiving it. Whoa, look at that big tennis back swing. I guess you don't really haven't learned how to play pickleball yet. I'm gonna let that ball fly because it's yeah, talk about the back swing in general.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

I have yeah, so I have a whole chapter or you know, section my book called Bye Bye Backswing. Yes, yes, and and in tennis, I did. I had a huge looping back swing, you know, when I when I hit my tennis shot. So when I started playing pickleball, you know, um, I had to take out that loop because that loop, even on my return of serve, it's a timing issue. So in pickleball, timing is everything when it comes to you know catching that ball in the proper strike zone. Now, when we talk about different areas of the court, so if we're talking about return of serve, that is the one place where a backswing is actually you know necessary. However, you you don't want to add anything to the backswing that's gonna take too much time. So, like I said, as a tennis player, I had a big old loop, had to take the loop out, so I drop the paddle straight down. Yes, I do pull it back to hit my return of serve, but I try to keep it as efficient as possible because you know the pickleball isn't gonna sit up like a tennis ball does for you. So you just don't have that time, right? Now, there are other times when I'm hitting a return of serve. Let's say that um, you know, the the court is in an area where, and you know, not every court facility is perfect, right? Some you have sometimes you have pickleball courts on tennis courts where the tennis net is, you know, in your backswing when you're hitting. And there are some times where players have to eliminate the backswing altogether on the baseline just because they simply don't have room based on you know where they're playing, right? Yes. Now, when we talk about besides the return of serve, back swings are going to be a detriment to the shots that you're hitting. And I'm gonna kind of address each of the shots. So when we talk about the third shot drive, okay, the third shot drive is not the same thing as your return of serve. They are two totally different techniques when you're hitting the ball, but yet people think that it's the same exact stroke, right? But it's not, okay. It's not I didn't actually realize that, so explain the difference. Yeah, absolutely. So when you're hitting a return of serve, what do you want? You want that ball to go as deep as possible. And, you know, putting some arc on that ball is also a good thing because the more hang time of the ball, the more time it gives you to come forward, right? Yes. Now, when you're hitting a third shot drive, okay, that shot is meant to get you into the net, right? But you also don't want that ball to go all the way deep to the baseline on the other side, because if you do, your opponent is able to play it out of the air. Yes. And you don't want that, right? So just technical-wise, so let me just, I'm gonna talk about return of serve just for another second. When I'm teaching return of serve, when people aren't getting enough depth on the return of serve, what I'm looking at is okay, where are you holding the ball? How are you holding the ball? If they have the ball too far in front of them, it's gonna shorten their serve, right? So if the ball in front of you shortens the serve, then that means the ball in front of you on a third shot drive is gonna help to shorten that ball, which is what we want. We want it to land either at our opponent's feet mid-court, or we want it to dip at the opponent at the net, right? Yes. So the other thing is top spin is important on that third shot. However, when you come up to the ball, you want the ball much more in front of you than you do on a return of serve. You want to get low, lean in, and then you're gonna roll over top of it just from a forward swing. Now, why do I want that? Number one, without the backswing, the ball is gonna sit up higher for me because the time that I would have taken in the backswing, that ball just dropped lower. Yep. So it's gonna sit up higher for me when I don't take the backswing. The other thing is it's gonna come on my opponent sooner, which is what I want that ball to do. I want it to catch them in the feet as they're coming up. Right. And then by taking it further in front of me, it's also a forward momentum shot. So it's going to also lead me in off of the technique on that third shot drive, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So, can I just say one thing about the backswing that you're pointing out, which is really important? Yes. You often, one often has to take a step back if they're going to do a big backswing. So they're and then now their weight is back, it's on their heels, now they have to adjust and come forward, and they've lost all that time. So the back swing is it forces you to either be neutral or slightly backwards in order then to come forward with your backswing. But now your feet are still planted. So now you have to get yeah. Yeah. So I hadn't thought of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah. And now as we work our way forward, let's talk about the backswing on other shots. If you're hitting a third shot drop, if you take a backswing on that, it's gonna encourage the ball to go higher and deeper than you want it to. So by playing the ball in front of you, it's going to keep the shot that you're hitting lower. Just, you know, strike zone wise, body mechanics-wise, the shot isn't gonna be able to go higher based on the way that you're hitting it, you know. So, so you know, taking that backswing is is not good on any third shot. So we want to eliminate that completely. Now, let's say we're coming forward, right? Yeah, anytime you take a backswing on a ball, the timing, it it's that whole chain reaction, right? So if I take a backswing, the ball's lower, the ball's now maybe not in the best strike zone for me. I'm now not looking at the ball, I'm looking at my opponents, and my ball's gonna go where I'm looking.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

And it just So, Lisa, just to interrupt, if the ball isn't in front of you, then you have to take a backswing. And the backswing means you are not really looking at the ball correctly. You're looking up at your opponent's face. And isn't there this saying that if you can see your opponent's earrings, and that could even be a guy nowadays, yeah, then you're looking in the wrong place. Yes, absolutely. Because that's where the ball's gonna go, right into their strike zone. Yeah. So talk a little bit about this issue of the backswing as you move forward and why less and less and less backswing, like none. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

So so we already talked about you know the third shot drive and the third shot drop. So our approach shots, having the strike zone in front of us, is gonna help you to see the ball that you're hitting. It's going to, you know, stroke mechanic-wise, it's gonna produce a better stroke because there's not anything unnecessary in there, right? Now, let's say you've gotten to the kitchen line, right? Now I'm up at the kitchen line. Volleying with a backswing is a that's a slippery slope. Now, we have a lot of pro players that hit two-handed strokes. Yes, you know, where there's a a little bit of backswing in that. However, they're pro players.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Thank you. Thank you. This is a show for rec players. Don't look at Annalise's awesome two-handed backhand volley and think, I want to do that, because we all kind of think that. And one of the coaches on this show, Veronica Elteri, she can do it. Veronica is built like a football player in a good way. She's so powerful, upper body strength. Boom. But let's just talk about, and that that requires some backswing, that two-hand right.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

And I mean, not much, but still it's a different stroke, right? So when we're talking about rec play, and this is even really up to you know the low four or five level or so, we want to keep our volleys more simple, and we want to play the ball in front of us. Yes. So the more we play the ball in front of us, first of all, the ball's gonna be at a higher point, right? Because the further back you bring your paddle back, the lower that ball drops, the less likely you are to look at it, right? And then that that back swing, as you go forward, you're gonna be looking at your opponent on your volley, and then the entire volley motion is gonna break down. We're gonna end up doing things like we're gonna break our wrist and you know, our follow-through is not gonna be good. So it again, it's that whole bad chain reaction. So when you're at the net, the the general rule of thumb is if you can't see your paddle, you're doing it wrong. Right. Yeah. So yeah, and it's just gonna make the ball come on your opponent faster, it's gonna make your shots more efficient, it's going to make you know it more possible to get your ball down sooner. Now, when I talk about the difference between levels, and again, like I like to point out, okay, so I'm I do you know lessons all the time. And sure, I have certain players that are you know trying to break through from 3-5 to 4-0 or 4-0 to 4-5. Yeah. And there's so many factors that that you know separate those levels. But the one biggest thing that I always tell my players is it's the person that can get the ball down at the feet first that is going to be the most effective and win the point, right? It's not about who can hit it harder right here, right? I mean, so so I say, okay, depending on your level, there should be an alarm bell that goes off in your head saying, Oh my gosh, I have to get this ball down. So at the three-five level, I say, okay, you might have two to three balls that are up in this area where you know maybe someone didn't get it down. But after that, you have to be going, I gotta get this ball down at somebody's feet. You can't do that with a backswing, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

And then can I just say that's really the the thing that that a lot of pros that that's the missing piece of that advice. Get the ball down. How many times was I told, I don't have to be told it as much anymore, get the ball down, get the ball down. And you think, well, I'll hit down on it. But the thing is, if you had a backswing, it's not the same as if your paddle's in front of you and you can see it and you're hitting out and down. Because it's not just down, it's out and down. Right, right. But I think that the the thing you're pointing out about bye-bye back swing is it's really hard to get the ball down if you had the backswing. Yes. It changes the paddle face, the whole trajectory, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Right, absolutely. And you're more likely to hit into the net or hit wild, right? So so then it's also, you know, your shot percentage is going to go way down as far as effectiveness, right? Yeah. And so that's the other thing that you know I mentioned about the swinging volley. It's not that I don't like the swinging volley. I think it's wonderful if you're proficient at it and if you can get the ball down every time. If you're hitting swinging volleys and you're one for 10, that's not an effective shot. It might look pretty, but it's not effective, right? So so we need to be eight out of ten in in the especially the four-o level. You should be able to eight out of ten times take a ball in your green light area and hit down at your opponent's feet with it. If you can't do that, your technique is off, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Right. And a lot of it has to do with the backswing. I I kind of think in terms of these levels, it's important to know that it three oh to three five. Again, I hope a lot of you are taking clinics or camps or lessons because otherwise, it is the blind leading the blind, folks. I've had people come out of court and go, Oh, I really like the way you play, for example. Give me any tips you want. I'm like, What? I'm just trying to learn it all myself, guys. And if I had a tip to give you, I've already been admonished, don't give tips in general. And B, I'm now distracted from my game. So do not turn to your partner and go, tell me what to do next. Take a lesson. But I think that at the 3035 level, what are we told all the time? Paddle up, paddle up, paddle up. I I had a friend who actually wore a little earbud, and and it said, paddle up, paddle. This is how she she had her son record it. Paddle up, paddle up. I thought, oh my god, this is gonna turn you OCD. But in fact, that is what you have to do. The paddle can never drift down. We're talking about at the kitchen, so it has to be up. But at three, five and above, it's not an issue of uh is it up? It's is it in front of you? Yes, because some people hold it up, but it's kind of in their chest area, so they don't see it. It needs to be up out, up and out to see it, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

So, how I explain when somebody's holding their paddle, okay. Um, if I had a paddle in my hand, I'd show you. But the the bottom corner of the paddle, which is right there, right? I have my players when they're when they're gripping their paddle, I have them hold it so that that bottom corner is going to be pointing at the ball wherever the ball is on the court, right? So I have them line up their toes and that corner of their paddle with where the ball is, right? Like a sight. So I like it, yeah. Yeah, so that you are absolutely 100% neutral ready when that ball comes to you. So, you know, we could talk about different grip holds and all of that, and you know, how people hold their paddle, but anything that you do that's not, you know, neutral and in this sort of at the ball position is just something that's gonna make you a little bit slower on getting to any particular shot, right? Depending on where it comes from. Yes. So by having that paddle out in front and pointing at the ball, that's gonna help you to, you know, be quicker on your shots. It's gonna help you to get to any area of your body just as quickly. And then um, when we talk about like body mechanics, as far as you know, not taking the paddle behind you. The other thing is anytime we're hitting our volleys, when we're at the kitchen line, you know, we end up, we get we get used to having this straight body. But right, we have to remember that, especially when hitting volleys, we're not meant to hit a volley with a straight body. If you were further back on the court, you wouldn't have a straight body when you'd be hitting your volley. You'd be taking a step with your volley. And people forget that, right? Yeah. So now I'm up at the line, I've got the paddle in front of me. And when I go to hit this volley, I'm gonna slightly rotate my hips and my heels just so that it rotates the paddle, so that now, if you see it's out in front of me right here. Now when I hit that volley, boom, it's right there. So that it's a really quick attack and that ball can go down.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

And what did it avoid? A backswing. Yes, as if you try to stay square to the net and it's coming uh to the left or the right of you. If you don't if you don't adjust your hips right and your your hand, then you have to take a backswing and now you're in big trouble. You didn't see the ball, you're kind of flailing in the dark, even though you don't realize it in the moment. Yeah, and it's also the other thing is recovery. How do you get back to the neutral? If you've taken a backswing, now you have to get that that paddle in hand all the way drift back in front of you. Right. You lost time.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I always tell um my players also when they're hitting, especially volleys, you know, when you bring your paddle back, it stops at your nose. If it goes past your nose, wow, you're not looking at it anymore, right? So, but that requires that slight body turn. And then, but then my eyes are gonna be right there with the ball paddle connection, which is where they should be. So I always tell my players, wherever that volley height is, that's where you should be lined up so you can see the ball coming off your paddle. Now, one other area where I see that a backswing kind of ruins the shot is when somebody is trying to hit a lob. So yeah, especially from the kitchen line, right? When we're up at the kitchen line, the lob is supposed to be a surprise disguised disruptor shot, right? But if you take this back step and this backswing, guess what? You're alerting your opponent, hey, guess what? I'm doing something here, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Same thing when you go to do a speed up, right, from the kitchen line. If you take a big backswing with the speed up, it alerts your opponent to know exactly what you're doing. So you have to learn, especially when you're hitting your shots from up at the kitchen line, that these are supposed to be disguised. They're supposed to come on my opponent as a surprise. So I have to drop the paddle down in front of me, make it look like I'm gonna hit a dink, but instead turn it into a lob, turn it into a speed up, right? And keep that in front.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

And that's why the really good speed up people can fool me, and I didn't understand why. Right because nothing changes perceptibly with their paddle. They just had a plan and they knew how to execute it without any signaling. Yes. All right, I'm on to you guys. Now I know the trick. Be ready. He said thank you so much. I think bye-bye backswing is something that could be instituted, in fact, in some of the really power players. The bangers, who we have talked about and will continue to talk about. The bangers are backswing people. Yes, and we can we can we can fool them at their own game, uh, partially because the backswing puts them at a disadvantage that they don't realize, but now that we know about it, we can take advantage of their disadvantage. Thank you so much, Lisa. That was terrific, as always. You're welcome. Awesome. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. I'm proud of our partnership with the APP, the Association of Pickleball Players, which provides world-class pickleball competitions for players of all ages and skill levels, professionals, amateurs, and recreational. I'm also grateful for our partnership with the IPTPA, which is the world leader in developing standards and certifying coaches across the world in dozens of countries and on every continent except Antarctica. I hope this show will get you up to the kitchen faster, dig with a purpose, and help you win paddle battles. Please subscribe on your favorite streaming platform and sign up at pickleballobsession.net to get the podcast and the show notes by email every week. Embrace the obsession.