Pickleball Obsession
Pickleball advice and insight for recreational players who want to play better and understand the game. Hosted by obsessed amateur Tracie Hotchner, each episode delivers short, useful answers from certified pickleball pros that actually apply to your game.
Pickleball Obsession
Should You Serve First or Receive?
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#1029: In tournaments it's a big decision whether or not to serve first (with only one serve but a chance to get on the board) or receive first when you'll have two serves? Coach Deb "PicklePong Deb" Harrison has medaled in hundreds of tournaments, so she has solid advice about all the elements to factor in to your decision — which can apply to rec play as well.
Welcome to Pickleball Obsession. This is the first podcast created just for recreational picklers with quick useful advice for amateur players from a variety of certified pickleball coaches. Whether you're a social player out there just to have fun or a competitive one trying to sharpen your skills and win more, the more you know, the better you'll play. I hope this show will get you up to the kitchen faster, dink with a purpose, and help you win paddle battles. I'm your host, Tracy Hotner. You might know me as the pet wellness expert on NPR Sirius and my own pet podcast network, but here I'm no expert, just another admittedly obsessed player picking the brains of top coaches for advice we can all use. This show is brought to you in partnership with the IPTPA, the International Pickleball Teachers Professional Association, and the Association of Pickleball Players, the APP Tournaments. Sign up at pickleballobsession.net for the weekly episodes of the podcast, along with bonus content. Embrace the obsession. Back with Deb Harris and Pickle Pong Deb. Deb, we've had so many great conversations. Here's a really simple one. Not complicated, but I think it matters. In a tournament, there's a big issue about do you serve first or if you don't choose to serve first because you won the toss, so to speak, then which side should you take? Now in rec play, people don't bring it up much. They go, oh, it doesn't matter. You start. But do you can you talk about having done so many tournaments and won so many yourself and taught so many people and also you play for fun? Does it matter in rec play who serves first? I mean, in theory, we all want to do our best in every game and win, at least kind of. We aren't driven to win like you are in a tournament. Does it matter who serves first?
SPEAKER_00I I think it's an excellent question. And and plus uh today I just got off the courts after uh nine to three in the afternoon. Whoa. And the wind was really strong on one side. Oh, and really uh it was with us or against us, and it was clear.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00We're the wind we're in Florida, so it was really clear that side does make a difference.
SPEAKER_01Interesting.
SPEAKER_00Inside it might not matter.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_00But let's just talk, let's just talk about a side not mattering.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00You don't have any sun, you don't have any wind. First.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00First. And my preference would be side when wind, sun do not matter.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's a really good distinction.
SPEAKER_00And my rationale is this the hardest shot to do in a game of pickleball is that third shot that goes down on the certainty.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00A drop. So it's the hardest shot to do in the world.
SPEAKER_01It is.
SPEAKER_00So why not let my opponents try to do the first third shot? So I'd rather choose ends and put the pressure on them, and then I have two chances to do my thirds that are a little better than theirs.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. What about the idea that the person who serves first can start if they either execute the the third shot drop or drip well, or they drive it and that works? The fact that they can start to accrue points early. But of course they're not going to be able to do that. Well, I'd like to start off.
SPEAKER_00I'd like to start off with thinking that I'm going to get the ball back and have two chances to do that. Um, if you have a lot of wind with you and you're the serving team, right, you could accumulate points against the wind pretty easily with a hard serve and a short return, and now you're in the driver's seat.
SPEAKER_01So if the wind is to your back, at that point you've picked side, or you just sort of decide that's gonna be the side.
SPEAKER_00If your wind is to your back and you're serving I would I would I would always like to serve uh if I if the wind is with me, okay, I would really like to start on the sir the serving side with the wind with me. So all the pressure is going on them to handle hard stuff against the wind. However, if I'm a driving player and all my drives go out with the wind, I might not. I'd rather be hitting into the wind and at least keep them in.
SPEAKER_01So let the wind be your drop spin.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So so if you have a hard game, it's really difficult to get a hard serve back and get it somewhat deep, so now you can get in. Get up, get up to the kitchen. Yeah. So it's a you know what about the sun?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I have a choice between first, let's say, is it so you're saying no matter the the physical condition outdoors, whether it be wind or sun, right? You would prefer side, you'd prefer to receive first.
SPEAKER_00So I have two chances to accumulate points.
SPEAKER_01And in the game, they're pressured to pull off a good third shot. The pressure's on them. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00And after that, after that, it's up for grabs.
SPEAKER_01Now I've got the wind. So it's a windy day, and they say you want to you don't tell them what your brilliant thinking is. You want to serve first, Steph. And if you like the way you serve and the way you and your partner play with the wind to your back, you say, sure, we'll start over here.
SPEAKER_00That's providing my drive stay in. Now the the the problem with having a lot of wind to your back, you hit a lot of balls out. Yeah, you do. If you're you're going for power all the time.
SPEAKER_01You have to change your game.
SPEAKER_00Power people like to play into the wind because they can still hit it hard. Right. And it'll stay in. So if you're hitting a lot of if you don't have a good power game, you don't want you can't take advantage of it. So if you if it and also it though um like Stephanie Lane, who's a very good lobber, would probably choose the against the wind side to make use of her skill, which is the lob. So if you're a good lobbying team to get out of trouble or offensive lobs, you might choose into the wind because your lobs are going to go out if you're with the wind. Right.
SPEAKER_01So if it's rec play and you're playing with people who either don't care or don't know that this is an issue, the wind or the sun, and they say, You want to serve first, or sure, why not? You say, sure, why not? And then you pick the side that will benefit you. If in fact maybe only maybe maybe not.
SPEAKER_00Rec play.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't matter as much.
SPEAKER_00No, no, it doesn't matter as much.
SPEAKER_01So in rec play, you just think, okay, I'll practice either with or against the wind or the sun. I'll just practice.
SPEAKER_00Let's go do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we'll just hone our skills. In a tournament, it makes a big difference.
SPEAKER_00It does. It does.
SPEAKER_01It does make a difference. How many times have you been in a tournament when you do the rock, paper, scissors, this kind of, you know, I'll hold up two numbers, two fingers behind my back, and your partner picks a one or a two, and they win this, they win the coin toss, if you will. And then every single time, I could swear, they look at each other and say, I don't know, what do you want to do? They don't even have a I'd I'd I'd I'd choose end. I would choose and over serve. But what about people who don't even make a choice? They have never thought this through. They win the toss, as it were, and then they don't even have an idea of which they'd rather do it.
SPEAKER_00In the end, it really doesn't matter, does it? Oh you gotta do your job. Yeah. Whatever they choose, whatever you choose, it it you know. You gotta you gotta go with it. You gotta handle both sides. Right, exactly. You know, and some people think that you you want to be on your favorite side on the third game. Oh your favorite side on the third game. So you might choose uh you know, side that you don't want, that you really don't want on the first game, knowing that you're gonna come back on the good side, but the third game will be on your on the good side again. Oh my goodness. So that might enter into the circumstance too.
SPEAKER_01If it's in a tournament where you're gonna play several games in a row, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Two games and then you split, and then the winner of the third game goes on. Right. Yeah, so if you if you if if if the third game is important, you want to be on the good side that you wanted to be on. So if you can withstand the first game to the third game.
SPEAKER_01There is there is forward-thinking strategy about it. Or you could just shrug and say, it doesn't matter. I'm gonna be on this side.
SPEAKER_00Well, how demoralizing is it when you are on your your uh you know your the the good side that you want? Right. You know, say you're a good driver of the ball, you can keep it in, you can put pressure on them, and you re accumulate eleven to one points.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's good.
SPEAKER_0011 to 1, and you make the switch. Oh, yeah. And maybe you're not very good at the second one, but you can hold your own.
SPEAKER_01You're talking about a game that goes to 15.
SPEAKER_00Well 11.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you're saying eleven to one, you've won the first game, you've nearly pickled them.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And you come to the other side where you're on a little more defense because it's not your favorite side, right? And you uh lose, let's just say you lose 11-9. You're still in the driver's seat. Right. Because it's really nip and tuck.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00You are better in the first game than the second game, and if it's accumulated with points, you've already won the points anyway.
SPEAKER_01And if there's a third game, then you go back to the side.
SPEAKER_00Now you're back to your favorite side.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's really more it people think it's about who should serve first, but if it's outdoors with real weather conditions, it's about the side, not the serve. That's yeah.
SPEAKER_00I guess that's the magic of it. Let's let's assume that everybody has a really um decent serve. That's fair. We'll just assume that's true. Everybody has a decent serve. Now, if you have a, I don't know, too many people who have ace every serve that they ever serve. Uh no, what that's not the pickleball game. Do you know what I mean? I do.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Nobody has done that.
SPEAKER_00You're gonna assume that people have fairly good serves. Yes. All of them do. Yes. Or or whenever, you know, but nobody aces everybody on every serve.
SPEAKER_01Oh gosh, no.
SPEAKER_00But sometimes with the wind, you know, with the wind, you can ace people with a lot of power. You can overpower people with the wind.
SPEAKER_01Or you can use more spin or an out wide or short serve, which now isn't what they expect because the wind has affected it.
SPEAKER_00Right. You can do a lot of things with the wind, and against the wind, you're barely trying. So I today I played against the wind, and my partner couldn't get it beyond two feet beyond the the service line. And what that is doing is it's setting it up for a disaster the opponent to kill it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Against the wind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So therefore, what I say to people, generally speaking, today I said the same things against the wind, you do more lobby stuff to get it through the wind.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00So your drive has to be up and out. Yep. You can't hit it short, muscle it because it's going to be short. Yep. And with the wind, be careful because you're going to hit hard balls out all the time.
SPEAKER_01I'd be so irritated, and then everybody grumbles, the wind, the wind. I, of course, play indoors now all the time. I'm a spoiled rat. Oh, okay. Spoiled rat, but that's another story. It's just important to know that it really is the side that counts more if you're outdoors. And if you're indoors, you get a jump start. And even if you're indoors, let the other team serve first because you still want to have those two chances to do a great third shot drop and to accumulate points, right?
SPEAKER_00And I have a friend that I teach with, um, um Barry, I'm trying to think of Barry's last name, but I I remember. He says whenever he has to serve first, and the ball comes back to him, he does not do a drop. Because it's sensitive.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00It's all sensitive. He does a drive, a flat drive, and then he does a fifth shot. His pace. Got it. So it's the third shot drop is a very sensitive descending ball. So he just winds up and fires it.
SPEAKER_01Fires with a third shot drop and then a fifth shot drop. Well, I guess in the end of the day, this is pretty clear that you'd be better off being the first receiver and let them be the first server, whoever they are, even in rec play. Because of what you said. More chances to accumulate points, more chances. More chances.
SPEAKER_00And once you get up five, six points, now they're stressing. Right. You want to get a jump on the points.
SPEAKER_01We want to create stress. Yes. Thank you, Deb, so much. I'm going to never want to serve. Oh no, you go ahead, I'll say. No, no. Go ahead. Like I've been. Oh, please no. Oh no, please, no, you, you, no, you first. Thank you, Deb Harrison. That was wonderful. You take care. See you on the board. Take care. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening. I hope you've enjoyed it, and I'm proud of our partnership with the APP, the Association of Pickleball Players, which provides world-class pickleball competitions for professionals and recreational players. I'm also grateful for our partnership with the IPTPA, which is the world leader in developing standards and certifying coaches across the world. If you subscribe on Apple or Spotify, please also sign up at pickleballobsession.net to get the weekly email with the podcast and bonus content. Embrace the Obsession.