Pickleball Obsession
Pickleball advice and insight for recreational players who want to play better and understand the game. Hosted by obsessed amateur Tracie Hotchner, each episode delivers short, useful answers from certified pickleball pros that actually apply to your game.
Pickleball Obsession
We Can't Complain Enough About Lobs!
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#1030: Coach Leia Miller and Tracie roll their eyes about heavy duty veteran lobbers, but instead of moaning, groaning and griping about players who barrage you with lobs, Leia suggests we take matters into our own hands! Better to find a way to "drive the bus" instead of being irritated about being jerked around by lobbers.
Welcome to Pickleball Obsession. This is the first podcast created just for recreational picklers with quick useful advice for amateur players from a variety of certified pickleball coaches. Whether you're a social player out there just to have fun or a competitive one trying to sharpen your skills and win more, the more you know, the better you'll play. I hope this show will get you up to the kitchen faster, dink with a purpose, and help you win paddle battles. I'm your host, Tracy Hotner. You might know me as the pet wellness expert on NPR Sirius and my own pet podcast network, but here I'm no expert, just another admittedly obsessed player picking the brains of top coaches for advice we can all use. This show is brought to you in partnership with the IPTPA, the International Pickleball Teachers Professional Association, and the Association of Pickleball Players, the APP Tournaments. Sign up at pickleballobsession.net for the weekly episodes of the podcast, along with bonus content. Embrace the obsession. Leah Miller is back. You are such a finesse queen. A wonderful pro, a wonderful competitor, a wonderful person on either side of the net. I've been on both sides of the net with you. Thank you. And I think that lobs is something that I kind of think we think negatively about people who lob offensively all the time. I think everyone may have been aware of the Contrôtemps when uh Anna Lee Waters was a young girl or younger, she's still a young girl. Yes, and she partnered with her mother. When I first saw her, she was about twelve down in Naples, Florida. I was in a tournament. She was in a completely different division with her mother. She was not yet who she is now. But in the meantime, before she went and got appropriate age, if you will, same age per people as herself, somebody was apparently lobbying them in a pro tournament in the sun, and her mother lost her cookies. She just Oh she did. Oh yeah. She went nuts. And apparently Annalie had to calm her mother down. Now, I can't say that I've lost my cookies, but I definitely fume and there is smoke often coming out of my ears. There are some people in Rec Play who lob I don't know, 75% of the time. What is that, Leah?
SPEAKER_01Well talk about Tracy, can yeah, can we talk about lobbing those medals behind your desk? Look at those things, girl.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's sort of decor of the studio, as opposed to it being, you know, my pet podcast. Uh it was uh the pickleball obsession morphed within about a year and a half of my starting the game to trying a tournament, and then I got obsessed with tournaments. And I live in a place that's mostly outdoors, although there's many indoor facilities now for tournaments and for rec play. So for about two years I went up and down the East Coast from Florida to Maine and back again and everything in between that involve cars more than planes, although Florida involved planes. Um you know I did win a fair amount, but it it's hard to say that it didn't matter to me. The whole thing mattered because I just felt I was never good enough. I didn't know enough. I was no really. Um, if I pl there were men that would ask me to play and they say, I'm 4-0, will you play with me in 4-0 mixed doubles? And I knew I wasn't 4-0. So I played with them. And then they wouldn't be a 4-0 level player at all. Yeah. That was their aspiration.
SPEAKER_01So we would I feel like I feel like that's the first time I met you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, then that I had been in other ones before that. The guy I was with was technically this was only what a year and a half ago. He was technically a 4.0, but tournament wise, he was more like a a talented 3.25 because he had no variety to his game. He just drove everything. Speaking of the opposite of lobs.
SPEAKER_01Speaking of driving, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So uh yeah, it so, but then there were some where I was I would go in senior games. And I would play in senior games, I would play with people younger and people older, but we were all seniors of some kind. And it's easier, I want to think, to meddle in that. Although one of those medals is from New York City playing at the Billy Jean Stadium in New York City, an APP tournament, where there were uh 12 or 14 matches going on simultaneously on the tennis practice course, and each one had a referee. And every referee stood back to back, and all you could hear was Thoro serve, and you're like, was that my part? Or someone we can discuss referees another time. But that's just an extension of my obsession. Um, my dislike of people who lob almost exclusively is, I don't think, mine alone. I I don't think the game was intended to be lobs to the baseline. So here's that's that's not the design of it. So here's you said in the past, it's it's played at the at the kitchen line, it's not really about I'm not talking about those clever surprise lobs when you're all in a fabulous dink or a hand battle, and then somebody does a really fabulous lob. I'm like, good for you. But the people that just lob everything you hit them, what about that? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So also, too, and I mean this in the like I want this to come out the right way, is like the first I want to give Tracy some love too and some recognition. Is first couple times I played it with you and or mostly against you at first, you're like sneaky good. Like you're very like, yes, you are. You gotta give yourself some credit with all those medals behind you. And you are you were same thing. You're yeah, you're such a pleasure to play with too because you're very complimentary, someone has a good shot, even if it like now kind of segue into this lob thing, right? So there's a right way. I don't feel there's a wrong way or a bad way to do a lob. I get very frustrated as a higher skill level when I play with a lot of guys and they just law. And I'm like, I can stick with this game, like it's fine. The game, the game is now evolving where to put different shots in, but throw it in once in a while. Like if you're known as the lobster, I'm going to stand in transition where you don't want to be, anyways, and I'm just gonna hammer the ball back at you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The biggest thing is, I believe, like when you said, when you're in that dinking rally and you see your opponent slightly leaning in, that's when you do a sneaky lob. Or again, if you're in the backcourt and that's all you have, sometimes you have to do it, but you have to learn. I always tell my partner, or at least let them know be like, hey, I'm gonna lob it so they don't get killed.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. That's the other thing. It's it's a nightmare, a minor nightmare. I mean, there are bigger ones to be across the net from someone who's gonna lob everything back to you because you've gone in towards the kitchen, you're either all the way there or not, and now they've lobbed again. And because what they do is lobbying like for a living, that's what I like to say about some players. They lob for a living. For a living. They're so good at it. Because it's what they do. So they're hugely high lobs, they're very deep, they often land on the baseline, and now you or your partner have run back and you crisscross and switch and like oh, you get it back. But now they're smart, they know what to do with what comes back. They drive it. So they lob and they drive your return. So that's pretty annoying. But if you're playing with someone who loves, it puts you in jeopardy. I mean, you've just got to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01I was just yeah, that was my next point. Yeah, so that's my next point too, is I personally don't like playing with I don't mind a lob here and there, but there's certain people where if they ask me to play, I'm like, I I want to play pickle. I I want to get to the line, I want to be strategic, I want to use my my noodle up in my head and think about it. Like, I don't I want to be fun with it. And like once in a while, a lob is okay. But at least if you're going to, let me know. And that's a huge other thing that I feel like I would love to talk about with you too, is communication.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Like if you communicate with me would be a great one for another.
SPEAKER_01What is the first what is the first thing I said to you? Because I've never really played with you. What did I say? I'm a big talker.
SPEAKER_02And I'm thank I'm thank goodness because that is a separate one about yours, mine, or just you go, or say the word switch. Yep. Even when I'm playing with somebody who's good and and they've run for for a way wide shot, either a short one or a deep one, I automatically switch at our level. I not that I'm at your level, but my aspiration is to be at your level. And then they're going back to where they came from. I said, Of course I'm gonna switch. And they said, Well, you didn't say it. I'm like, I have to say it. If you run all the way over to my side, buddy, I'm going all the way over there. But that's exactly that's the communication story. As far as lobbying, it's funny. Uh this is this segues into another topic that I think I'm gonna have with Greg, Greg Dietrich, because you manage an entire pickleball club of 300 people. So you're used to dealing with personalities and and clashes that may not be huge, but they're kind of simmering and he has to do it a lot. Uh the issue that you just said was someone says, Will you play with me? And you know that they are what I call pro you know, lobbers for a living. That's what they do. And if the Swedish gentleman asked me recently in open play, having just played against him and all he did was lob, I was like, uh, what is this? It's like, you know, I don't know, Groundhog Day. What are we doing? Why are you kidding? I didn't say anything. But then he said it he said we everybody put their paddle in a paddle rock. He said, Oh, I'd like to play with you in the next game. And I said, Oh, well, do you always only lob? Because I'm not very good at playing with someone who lobs on on my side of the net either. But I didn't know how to say it politely. And he moved his paddle. I moved mine, and that it's really tricky, but that's another topic. How do you communicate something without being offensive, without being rude? But uh the game's gonna be no fun for me, and therefore no fun for the other person, because when I'm grumpy, I'm not really good at hiding it.
SPEAKER_01No, well, and that's another thing, too. Like, it's so funny. My husband tells me all the time, he's like, I feel like you could write a book about etiquette, about what you've heard, about you know, how a 3-0 it play wants to play with the 4-0s because it makes them better.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, that's another podcast, people. Leah and I have so I I saw my list. My list is Tracy. Tracy, how many times have we talked about that? Oh my goodness. You know, I know that that's a separate one. We're gonna do that one next. The one about, you know, lower level players being indignant when they're not welcome on a higher level court, when they get crushed and humiliated, but they say, But that made me better. No, it just humiliated you. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And here's my thing like I'm a nice person, and like if you lob, if you don't lob, if you're a lower level, like I'm gonna be complimentary, but here's a big thing, too. I know we have to wrap this up, but I was just gonna say, when you're paying to play or you're playing competitively, there's a time and place for it. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yes, but because a lot of us pay.
SPEAKER_02I mean, true pickleball club, which is my home base where I play four to five times a week. Sometimes people will comment on, yeah, well, it's expensive. I said, compared to what? I mean, compared to a outdoor court with broken nets and and no kidding, and and chaos, you know, at the paddle rack, and there's no paddle rack, you know, yeah. And just uh random uh situations as opposed to a really beautiful physically controlled environment, which you had also where you were teaching. Yes. You originally had tennis courts repurposed, and then you had designated a full facility, yeah. Um it you are paying, and also time is precious. So if each game lasts, if you only played a nine in rec play, still a game can last 10, 12, 15 minutes. If the people are well matched, you can have fabulous rallies and no score, you know, back and forth and back and forth. Exactly. Do you want to sort of spend one of your tokens, if you will, in a game where you know it just isn't suitable for you? Now, yeah, that isn't to say that people who lob a lot uh I would say they're not really playing pickleball the way it's intended to be played. Do you is that a harsh comment?
SPEAKER_01I don't think so. I think at a higher level, um, they use it very like if you watch any pro pickleball, they're not lobbing that much. When they're lobbying, they're taking the ball out of the air at the kitchen line to throw their opponents off. Or they're not lobbying.
SPEAKER_02Or they're lobbying to try to Hail Mary. Someone has hit such a brilliant, beautiful, incredible shot, all they can do is throw their paddle at it and hope. But that's not the same thing. And we're talking offensive, not defensive lobbying. Correct, yes, yeah. Which is which is where it can become so irritating to other people. If you had a choice of other shots to hit, but you continue to stay back, which is not really where the game's supposed to be played after the first one or two points and lob, you've changed the game. This is now a different game. And I don't know, it's just I I don't see it only at a lower skill level at all. I just see that individuals who've embraced it as their mechanism, and it works for them. And I don't know if do they realize how much they're irritating everybody else? I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00I think they're open, little world pickleball la lay. Do a drop shot then. Don't lob, drop shot. There we go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, third shot drop. Listen to Leah's podcast about that on here. Exactly. Okay, so lobbers, it's okay to dislike uh an endless array of lobs coming at you. It's not just me who has a shorter fuse. I other people tolerate it, but uh I maybe on another show about etiquette, we'll talk about how does one deal with that. What if that is the person's only tool in their toolbox? And they put themselves on a higher level court and they can win points and maybe even win games by Chinese water torture, which I'm sure is a politically incorrect thing to say. Call it waterboarding, I don't know, whatever you want to call it, but it will torture people to not play their game and not play well. And everybody comes away except for the lobber, feeling like, ugh, I really hope this game I get to do some thinking, right?
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. I agree. So many topics that we came off of this. I can't wait. Etiquette is one of my favorites. I got that question asked all the time, especially in the position I was in. So I'd be more than happy to help you with that one.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna do etiquette, we're gonna do communication, we're gonna do all uh we're gonna do all kinds of things, like even taking a lob out of the air. I mean, that's a whole other show. Is okay, so now we've vented, if you will, about lobbers. We'll do another show about okay, but you are against a cross the net from a lobber or playing with one. Most of us play in open and rec play. We don't get to choose who we play with, much less who we play against. So that's another tool we need to. So I mean that the best the best offense is a good defense. No, that's not right. I made that up. Uh the best way to deal with something you don't like is to find a different way to deal with it and not have an emotion about it, have a re a physical plan on how to counteract it. Leah Miller, thank you so much. Thank you. See you on the court soon. Take care. Yes. Thank you. You also. Thank you. Thanks for listening. I hope you've enjoyed it, and I'm proud of our partnership with the APP, the Association of Pickleball Players, which provides world-class pickleball competitions for professionals and recreational players. I'm also grateful for our partnership with the IPTPA, which is the world leader in developing standards and certifying coaches across the world. If you subscribe on Apple or Spotify, please also sign up at Pickleballobsession.net to get the weekly email with the podcast and bonus content. Embrace the Obsession.