Fox Hollow Farm, Herb Baumeister & the SCOTUS Geofence Warrant Ruling The Particulars Ep. 2

Headlines end. The details begin. In Episode 2 of The Particulars, Lacey and Nic walk this week's cases with a different lens — a private investigator and law student alongside a former federal agent.

Evidence of the Night: Fox Hollow Farm & the Herb Baumeister Case. A new Hulu special, Return to Fox Hollow: New Victims, Darker Secrets, premiered today — a follow-up to the Emmy-nominated The Fox Hollow Murders: Playground of a Serial Killer. Herb Baumeister, a Westfield, Indiana thrift-store owner and married father of three, is believed to have killed at least 11 men — investigators say the true number could exceed 25. Roughly 10,000 charred bone fragments were recovered from his 18-acre property, and Baumeister died by suicide in Canada in 1996 before he could be arrested. We cover the ongoing DNA effort to identify additional victims and the open questions about accomplices and missing evidence.

Legal Minute: The Geofence Warrant Ruling (Chatrie v. United States). After a 2019 armed robbery at a Virginia credit union, police served Google with a geofence warrant demanding location data on every device within a roughly 150-meter radius of the bank — narrowing the list of devices down to Okello Chatrie. A federal judge agreed the warrant lacked particularity and probable cause but let the evidence in under the good-faith exception. On June 29, 2026, the Supreme Court ruled 6-3, with Justice Kagan writing for the majority, that accessing that location data is a Fourth Amendment search — you keep a reasonable expectation of privacy in your phone's location history, even when Google is holding it. The Court didn't ban geofence warrants outright; it sent the case back to the Fourth Circuit to decide whether this warrant met those requirements. In July, the ACLU published findings alleging Flock Safety — the license-plate-reader company from our Episode 1 South Carolina story — has repeatedly misrepresented its capabilities to city councils, police departments, and the public.

Case Update: Texas Cocaine Bust. On July 1, Border Patrol agents near Falfurrias, Texas stopped an 80-year-old man and his 74-year-old wife towing a trailer with a hidden compartment holding more than 345 pounds of cocaine. Both told DEA agents they knew narcotics were inside and expected $5,000–$10,000 to drive the trailer to Houston. They've been charged with possession with intent to distribute and waived their preliminary hearing.

Case Update: Two Lake Tragedies. In Kentucky, 19-year-old Marly Kinney disappeared June 24 while boating on Grayson Lake; her body was recovered four days later. The pontoon's captain was separately arrested for boating under the influence — as of now, that charge and her death are not officially connected. In Mississippi, 18-year-old Nolan Wells went missing July 4 on Horn Island; his body was found two days later. Investigators suspect drowning and don't currently believe foul play, though the case remains active. Indiana DNR is also stepping up enforcement of the federal "kill switch" boat lanyard requirement this summer.

Case Breakdown: Tarnished the Badge — The Jamey Noel Case. Former Clark County, Indiana sheriff Jamey Noel pleaded guilty to 27 of 31 felony counts — theft, official misconduct, tax evasion, money laundering, corrupt business influence, and obstruction of justice — after an Indiana State Police probe into his misuse of fire and EMS department funds. He was sentenced to 15 years with 3 suspended to probation, plus a $270,000 fine and more than $3.1 million in restitution. We explain how that sentence becomes roughly 9.5 years served with credit time — a distinction that gets lost in headlines.

OUR OPINION. OUR ANALYSIS. NOT LEGAL ADVICE. Everything here is our commentary and opinion, based on the public record — not legal advice, and not an active investigation. Accused/alleged throughout; charged is not convicted; presumption of innocence applies, every time.

⚖️ New episodes Monday / Wednesday / Friday, 9 PM ET — live on TikTok, replay on YouTube.

Chapters
 0:00 Intro & Cold Open
 1:02 Tonight's Docket & Monday Recap
 3:30 Disclaimer
 4:12 Fox Hollow Farm & the Herb Baumeister Case
 26:42 Flock Cameras, the Fourth Amendment & Chatrie v. United States
 57:01 Texas Cocaine Trafficking Case
 1:17:00 Kentucky Lake Case — Marly Kinney
 1:18:57 Mississippi Lake Case — Nolan Wells
 1:22:13 Indiana Boating Law Update (Kill Switch / Lanyard Law)
 1:40:39 Tarnished the Badge — The Jamey Noel Case
 2:10:57 Friday's Teaser & Wrap-Up

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Let's get started.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And you want to go ahead and yeah. All right, let's go ahead and get in it. So, welcome back. This is episode two of the Casewalker Chronicles The Particulars. And this is what we are choosing to call our live because we wanted to just be different, right? We wanted to throw something out there and be a little bit different. So um, we started our first live Monday night, and that was our episode one. It is on YouTube. So if you missed it, you can catch the replay on YouTube. Okay, that's under the Casewalker Chronicles, right? So anyway, the content that we have is we're choosing to, so it's investigative, it's true crime, we're throwing in some legal, uh, we're throwing in a little bit of private investigation. So all the things, right? This is a I like to call this the Mary Poppins bag. That's what our lives are. It's gonna kind of be a little bit of everything tonight. Um, but tonight is Wednesday, July 8th. We're live and we're gonna walk four cases specifically. So the cases that we're covering tonight, I don't know. I don't even did you even look at the at the snippet before we I did a brief over. Okay, you did a brief. All right. So we're talking about an Indiana cereal serial killer, which this one, I was actually, I had a phone call with my dad tonight a little bit a while ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

And no one knows about this.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Okay, no, but I will say that he did when I said the name, he was like, Oh yeah, you told me about that one.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

So I wasn't known had you not told him about this person had I not told him. And what was so interesting is that I shared this before it was like a documentary. Yeah, we talked about this. Yeah, so we talked about this. Uh my job at the time was You were with DCS. No, no, it was before that. I was I was at the admin building. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

I thought you had oh, you had shared it with coworkers.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct. So, anyways. Oh my gosh. See, I told you this is gonna be good. All right. So on Monday, we discussed flock cameras and we talked to you guys about the Iowa Jane Doe, who we, you know, um, Cheryl Edwards, she was finally given an identity, 15 years old uh when she admit went missing. That was Iowa's longest unidentified uh Jane Doe case that they had. So that was we talked about that on Monday. And if you remember, if you were here on Monday, um you should have caught that we threw in a little bit of legal and keep that in your back pocket because we're gonna bring that back up later in tonight's episode. So for those of you that are just joining us, we talked about surveillance and one of my favorite things, which is kind of a little sketch when it comes to investigations, but DNA. And we're gonna talk about how that's going to play in to tonight's cases, but they're gonna look a little bit different. So it'll be interesting for those of you that were here Monday or you caught the replay, it'll be interesting to see if you can pick up on the differences. Um let's jump into it. And the first thing what we do at the top of every exit every episode is we have to give our disclaimer because we love all of you, we have to share because we care, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So our opinion, our analysis, and it is not legal advice, correct.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

You better check that twice because while we would love to share and hopefully educate and have commentary and opinions and you know, conversations, no one say that we gave them legal advice because we are not doing that, okay? Just say it. All right. So let's begin tonight. Nick kind of did a little foreshadowing with this. Um I'm gonna tell you a story because I like to talk. I got the gift of gab. Okay. So, and this is what we're gonna do. I'm gonna give you a little story and we're gonna see if you guys can make that connection. All right. So, in true us fashion, which is actually me, um, I used to work for DCS. So, depending on what state you are from, sometimes it's called uh like family and child services. Yeah, DCFS, yeah, Department of Child Services. The state, they like to change the names, gives them their own flair, right? But, anyways, I used to work for them for a hot minute. And I say a hot minute because it really was a hot minute. But anyway, um, we did what we had was cohorts and we would do training. And so your first like six months is very heavy in training. And our training, in case you haven't figured it out yet, we do live in Indiana. So I did all of my training in Indianapolis. Um, and the way that we did our training was we would have to go up and stay at hotels, right? Well, I had a group of girls that were in my cohort and we were friends, so we would do all of our trainings during the day, and then in the evening, some people drove because they were close. Some people got the hotel experience. Uh, the girls that I um we kind of gravitated, our little friend group, so to speak. We all were hotel stayers. So after class was done and you had to deal with 465 traffic, hello, uh, you get back to your hotel. Some sometimes we would go and we would do dinners. Uh, sometimes depending on like um how close their husbands were, they would come and meet. Yeah, we did stuff like that. We also did um a couple of times we would watch, I think it was Sister Wives or something like that. If they depending on when we were up there, we would watch premieres together. Somebody would bring popcorn and anyway, it was a fun time. But we would also, because we all had very similar interests, sometimes we would take field trips. And when I say we would take field trips, we would go if someone or something was uh an interest of all of us, we may go and check out that place, like a landmark. It could be where someone used to live or where, you know, some of these things I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah, like Jared from Subway.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yes. We did go, we did go see where Jared lives, actually.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Lived. He was in prison.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah, correct. He lived past it. But, anyways, so I can't remember if this was one of the things that we did together as a group or if this was on my trip up or trip back. Anyway, all of that to say, in regard to this particular case, I have been very close. I didn't get to go in because it is private property, it's re-owned now, um, all the things. But this case, I have had such an interest in because to me, it just was so beyond fascinating that it's still such a unknown or lesser-known case. So with that, the most exciting, a new documentary special, Return to Fox Hollow, New Victims, Darker Secrets, begins streaming today, July 8th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. This is the follow-up to the 2025 Emmy-nominated docuseries The Fox Hollow Murders, Playground of a Serial Killer, which followed Hamilton County coroner Jeff Jellison as he reopened the decades-old case after thousands of human bone fragments were found in the woods around Fox Hollow Farm. This is in Westfield, Indiana. That was the estate of Herb Baumeister, who was a Westfield thrift store owner and married father of three. He is believed to have killed at least 11 men, with investigators saying the true number could exceed 25. During the 1980s and 1990s, roughly 10,000 charred bone fragments were recovered from the 18-acre property. Baumeister died by a self-inflicted gunshot wound in Canada in 1996 before he could be arrested. The new special covers the ongoing DNA effort to identify additional victims and raises questions about possible accomplices and missing evidence.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Did you hear that? 10,000 charred bone fragments were recovered.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, it I think like what I was talking to my dad on the phone about today. So this is my memory of it. Okay, so don't come at me. I'm I'm paraphrasing, okay. But the gist of it was he owned a very this is the highlight reel, I will say, as well. I I strongly encourage anyone to look this information up if you want specifics. I am not citing this, this is my memory. So this individual owned thrift stores in Indiana, which or secondhand stores, okay? Um, and what the the most interesting part to me about this, because if you think about so say like Goodwill or you know, something like that, they have random things. Now, I don't even think in our modern day goodwill stores I've ever seen this. I think of more Victoria's Secret or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, I mean like Target.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah. So, anyways, mannequins, right? You I don't see them on a lot of secondhand stores.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

But maybe in the 80s and 90s that was more common.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Fair. That's a fair. So yeah, yeah, yes. Like it's it's gonna blow your mind. Like, yeah, I of course, watch the first season and then you have to watch the follow-up, and all of which, because sorry, I jumped ahead a little bit. They did end up kind of reopening and digging, and it's bringing all this information back up. But what's amazing to me was again, like he had this house and he had kids and he was married, right? And he was a businessman and uh like an upstanding citizen, is what everybody continues to say. But he had, which we actually have one of these here in where we live, the town where we live. I'm not gonna tell you. If you want to dig deep, you can find that out on your own. But, anyways, the town that we live has a house that has one of these, and it it blows my mind because I don't even have one in my backyard. But her baumeister had an in-home pool. So it was inside of his home. Like, I can't even get you to put like a pool outside.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

It was a it was in a nice community, a wealthy community. He owned multiple consignment shops.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

And we also think the 80s and 90s, I'm sorry, I think that's just yeah, but that's one of those things.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Like you were upper class if you had a pool in your home back in the 80s and 90s.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I I mean, I think you're upper class if you have it, like an in inside your own pool now. But anyways, the most interesting thing about that, yeah, status absolutely. But now the the caveat, if you will, of that was around the pool in his pool area were mannequins like sitting around, like displayed everywhere. I don't understand that. Like that to me, like because I as I said to on my dad on the phone, I was like, okay, so say for instance, you just had uh your family come over for a dinner.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Well, we have to explain we have to tell the explanations behind that because they did say that talking with the family, talking with the the ex-wife, all that kind of stuff, that he was peculiar, peculiar, yes. And his own family would go on family trips with Allen.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

I was getting there.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

And psych, you know, psychologically, this is where you come from.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

That's where you think, okay, yeah, maybe it's kind of okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

We all have our strangedities. I get that. I really do.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

We all have our kinks, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I mean, like, but for real, like if you go over to somebody's house for a barbecue and they're like, hey, let me show you my pool, and you go down there and you see all these mannequins just like hanging out.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Are you gonna say something?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yes, absolutely. I'm going to say something.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

I'm gonna Okay, we've been put in situations ourselves where something out of the ordinary between us has been thrown out in the middle of a room during a social gathering. Yep, and nobody said anything to us.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

They weren't mannequins. Okay. I would. I would 100% say, listen, I'm out. This is this is this is okay. So that that to me is beyond like I can't fathom that. But then he would go, like his family would go on these trips or whatever, and he would be home alone because he's like running these businesses, right? Well, then I guess during this time, that's when he would partake in some of his funner activities, I guess would be his thing. Or, you know, I'm not gonna claim certain things because I mean I was alive in some of this time.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

I don't know. I don't think I don't think murder is fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Obviously, it was to him.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Well, it was something anyway.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

And I'm just saying, like there were so many things with this case where it just continued to baffle me, and that the numbers continued to rise. And we're Indiana, Midwest, you think nothing. That doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Yeah, but that so many people John Wayne Gacy up north, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Are you saying the Midwest is a little strange?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yes, very. We're in a geographic location that is quite strange, but that's everywhere. Anyway, I'm just saying 10,000 bone fragments, okay? And they've only found what?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

A thousand not even a thousand.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

They are certainly they've identified, yeah, continuing to identify. And that I think is what is like, you know, because genealogy, we talked about this Monday night in regard to, you know, like but we got to talk about the important reason why we don't think, or at least me, why I don't think the investigation continued to the extent that it should have. All right. Well, again, this is our opinion, okay?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

This is my opinion. Uh coming from an investigative background, kind of kind of knowing the history of how investigations evolved thro over time from my training.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

I think you have to say also culturally.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yes, because but that has a huge that is part of the factor in over time, culturally, in the 19 and eight 1980s and 1990s, uh, especially for investigators who were traditionally type A personality people, same with cops, same with all of that, you know, firefighters, anyone in the investigative background. Those individuals were type A personalities, they still are today, yet the culture has changed immensely in the 80s and 90s to be investigating something where you know they've found body parts and they've finally realized during the investigation, sorry, they found bones, and they've identified these bones to individuals, and then going back and finding out who these in individuals were doing the investigation, they found out that every single one of these in vit individuals were known to be homosexual. Not saying that's a problem whatsoever, but in the 80s and 90s, in the 80s and 90s, back then it was not what it is today.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

It was not openly what it is today. And I mean, we've we still continue, we've talked about that before. Because investigators have even said they've ins they've even said on camera Yeah, I I think that was the first the first series documentary.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

We didn't really do a whole lot with these investigations once we find out these men were gay because they got what they deserved. And I know that is a horrible thing to say. Terrible, terrible thing to say. I would never say something like that. But that was the culture, that was the mentality of investigators back in the 80s and 90s. And now we're waiting to watch this new episode or document docuseries. I think it's three.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

I think it's three episodes.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I think it's tonight, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah, it's today. It's I almost watched it today during the day, but I was like, no, I'm gonna watch it.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

I wanted to see them continue this because the biggest thing about this when we started this podcast or this episode today was how many people out there know the name Herb Baumeister Baumeister. Very few. And even in the state of Indiana, people don't know who he is, and he is a prolific killer.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

He doesn't get and this is gonna sound very bad.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Because he was never because he was never convicted.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Convicted. He was never tried, he was never even arrested, right? No, like or or you know, like charged because what uh he fled, he fled to Canada, yeah. Um, and and he killed himself, yeah. You know, like but uh kind of circling back to what you said on that, because I I think it's it's interesting in the psychology of while social culture and socially things have society has changed its view on some things, still today, which I know anybody in here that's watched any kind of true crime documentary, they always say, and it's true in a sense. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that factually the the population today that would be that is like the prostitution area, like the female, the runaways, those those are the hardest. And it's in the sex trafficking, yes. It it's so hard to get adequate investigations because they say their lifestyle contributed that you have to think like, okay, you you put that into perspective. So someone who's in some of those riskier professions, they might not have the family support, or you know, they're kind of estranged from family social.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Or they're trying to keep it from people so they don't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Right. And so when they go missing, no one knows because they don't that a lot of them are estranged from their family, or you know, things like that. So their family doesn't know them. Oh well, we haven't talked to her in 10 years. We didn't know she was missing.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

But culture has changed so much now that yeah, no one was looking for them. Yeah, yeah. Um, culture has changed so much now, and the reason why you don't see nearly as much of the serial killer aspect is just because it's much harder for them to go undetected. Right. Um, think about it. You're Herb Baumeister today. Could that happen? Possibly. Is it likely? No. Why? Because of the A the coming out movement of so much here, you know, over the last two decades from the early 2000s, where it people were getting more comfortable coming out being gay, homosexual, transgender, whatever it may be, because it's starting to be more socially accepted. Therefore, they're they're more prolific on their social media accounts, they're able to be, they're able to be known as being that way. And and now you can't just pick them up off the street and them go missing and no one notice anymore. Because you see where I'm getting at?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

No, I get that. And I I think another part that that ties hand in hand with that, if you think back to the early 80s and even the early 90s, what what did people I can't, mine's literally running the live, but what did people not have? Cell phones, they didn't have cell phones, yeah, and so like there wasn't that that ability to know exactly where you were all the time constantly tracking so much of your data that you know, even if, say, someone disappears, there's usually a trace, a trail, something to follow. Back then, there wasn't. So it was a lot easier for people to just kind of, well, poof. I don't want to be in this life anymore. I'm gonna start a new one. And it was easier in a sense to do that back then. So that contributed to this mass amount of missing or, you know, unidentified. And and you think the technology with internet and things like that as well, that helped because back in the day, and I'm not gonna give you a date because I don't remember. I learned this when I was in school in one of my crimp justice classes, but the the missing person system that we used to have in law enforcement within the United States was index cards.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

And it it there wasn't, you know, the database that we have now where, you know, oh, we can go to everyone shares that information. That was literally an index card that they would call up and say, Hey, yo, this is Lafayette calling down to. Wherever, have you seen this person with this demographic area?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And it could be a county away that has the information and you just didn't call them.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Well, because you didn't know. Like there was no way to get that communication out. So taking all of that into account when you watch these shows, I think it helps paint things in a little bit more clarity.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah. Even with all the craziness that's going on in the world, um people just adapted to be criminals. You know, that mindset is just going to continue because that's human nature.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I think we'll continue to evolve.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

I think we will, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

And I think you'll I think you'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

But I don't I don't think that I think that the days of serial killers are over over an extended period of time. Mass murders, that's a whole different scenario.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, we and eventually maybe we'll go into that because there are still people that they give classifications where classifications don't technically fit. So there's a difference between a mass killing and serial killing. Yes. And maybe one night we'll put that in as something that we can discuss because I think that's that's a key thing. But anyways, I digress.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

So we need to move on.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I and I am, I'm tying it all back. Look, I'm gonna make a uh it's come full circle, right? So with that, what we discussed Monday night in the Iowa case was Cheryl, is the exact thing they're using to continue the work here in Indiana with her Baumeister. So genealogy, we talked a little bit of that on Monday. Yes, and it's very, very fascinating. I do not contribute because Amy knows DNA. Amy knows, exactly. Thank you. DNA, you got it. So there are some great things. Like, you know, we've got the Ancestry websites and we've got 23 and me, and I don't even know how many more we have, but there are some, and I actually think we talked about it Monday. I think I I quoted or cited specifically which um which one it is, but I don't wanna I don't want to misspeak. I didn't put it in my notes for tonight. There are some that have partnered with, say, the FBI, government agencies. Yeah, that that they have these partnerships so that they're using these familial matches to go down the genealogy DNA trail. And that is how they are finding and solving some of these really old cases, um, you know, cold cases from decades past. Uh, they're using that. And it's it's they're actually tapping into that with Herb and some of the victims and the bones and things like that. And again, that's one of those things we've seen technology advance to a place where, you know, you look back in the 80s and 90s, DNA testing then versus DNA testing today, it's different. You know, we can we can do more now than we could then. And so that's why, you know, you will see some of those labs hold or you know, investigation. The investigative agencies will hold back DNA to hopefully you'll hear that in documentaries as well. We're holding it back in the event that it can be retested later. Some of that is the case with Herb. Long story short, Herb's little section snippet was just I it was too much of a perfect thing that we were going live tonight. Tonight is is the well, today, July 8th, was the premiere of the follow-up doc. We had to discuss it. It had to be said, like it had to be done. But you know that's another area, another rabbit hole. If anybody's wanting to do some deep diving, genealogy and and case solving is a huge thing. Which we're gonna kind of bring that back to where we kind of left off Monday night's episode.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Flock cameras.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

I I I'm sorry. The name just continues.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

You know it's got an acronym.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

What is it?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

You don't know it? You haven't looked it up?

SPEAKER_00 26:26

No, I I like to think of it as the geese.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Like Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Like, we're flocking.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

You've got the internet in front of you.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

I'll look it up. I'll look it up. You want to read the snippet then?

SPEAKER_01 26:36

So I'll read the snippet. I'm gonna look it up because even though it says Lacey Leeds. Um she's she's been studying the Fourth Amendment in law, obviously. Um, and I already know the Fourth Amendment. I had to use the Fourth Amendment in my in a daily basis when I was an investigator in the Air Force. Um, because as a federal agent, you are an agent of the government, therefore, you are protected from the citizens by the Constitution of the United States. That's basically what it comes down to. So, discussing this with the Secretary or sorry, the Supreme Court of the United States.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Yeah, get it right, SCOTUS.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Yeah. The Supreme Court of the United States geofencing ruling, uh, which was very recent, on May 20th, 2019, an armed man robbed the Call Federal Credit Union in Virginia.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

You didn't say it? I was hoping you were gonna I was gonna say Midlothian.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah, Midlothian, Virginia. That's probably wrong, but and got away with nearly $200,000. Investigators had no leads, so police served Google, the company, with a geofense warrant, which I can tell you right now is incredibly hard to get approved by a judge.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Keep going.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Asking for the location on every device that had been in roughly a 17 and a half acre area around the bank during a set time window.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

That's a huge area, by the way. So when you come to geo geofencing.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like it's like a quarter mile by a quarter mile.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Okay, let's geofence our area and see how many.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Oh, yeah. But if you think about it, I mean, around a bank, it's probably populated. Uh-huh. But it's like a quarter mile by a quarter mile.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

I'm not going to interrupt. Keep going.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Um that process narrowed an initial list of about 19 devices down to a handful, which is surprising. So this must be a rural area, right? And one of them belonged to Okello Chatri.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Chae.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Cha Tree, thank you. Cha Tree was charged with the robbery. He moved to suppress the location evidence, arguing the warrant violated the Fourth Amendment. Because that's why this is so, these are so hard to get signed by a judge. The federal district judge actually agreed the warrant lacked the required particularity and probable cause, but ruled the evidence was admissible anyway under the good faith exception. Now, personally, my opinion, I have a problem with that.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

But you can't have your problem opinion yet. You've got to finish telling the story. Keep going. Okay?

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Keep going under the good faith exception. The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld that outcome on hearing.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

On rehearing.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

On rehearing, sorry. It'd been many appeals. The full court split seven to seven and left the question unresolved. Shatry pleaded guilty to the robbery, preserving his right to appeal the suppression ruling, and was sentenced to just under 12 years in federal prison. He took that appeal all the way to the Supreme Court.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

On do you want me to do you want me to read the next part? Yeah. Okay. On June 29th, 2026, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 in Shawtree v. United States that when police used a geofense warrant directing Google to identify cell phones near a crime scene during a set time window, they conducted a search under the Fourth Amendment. Justice Kagan, writing for the majority, held that a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and records of their cell phone's location. And that police intrude on that. Get that out of my face. Now I lost my spot.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Pause. Brain is filtered.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Justice Kagan.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Okay. Writing for the majority held that a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy in records of their cell phone's location and that police intrude on that protected interest when they demand the data, even for a limited time, and even from a third-party company. The case grew out of a 2019 armed robbery of a credit union, which we discussed in Virginia. The investigators obtained the warrant compelling the, you know, Google to identify every device roughly in that 17.5 acre area. I think that's huge, anyways, and they used it to zero in on Shawtree. Critically, the court did not ban geoforce geofense warrants, and they did not rule the search in this case unlawful. It sent the case back to the Fourth Circuit to decide whether the warrant met the Fourth Amendment's probable cause and particular, I can't say that, particularity requirements. The decision builds on the 2018 ruling in Carpenter v. United States. Justices Alito, Thomas, and in part Barrett dissented. Alito called the major Alito called the majority opinion an irresponsible escapade. And this ties right back to Monday. In July of 2026, the ACLU published findings arguing that Flock Safety, the automatic license plate reader company, whose cameras were at the center of our episode one South Carolina story, has repeatedly misrepresented its operations to city councils, police departments, and the public across the country.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Yeah, that's that's the biggest problem with the Flock cameras, is they're truly and okay, sorry, preface, my opinion. They're truly and utterly being represented, misrepresented to the people and the public of what they're actually capable of doing. Um it is unbelievable because we actually have we actually have a little bit of insight into security cameras. In our previous job, we controlled the security camera.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I mean that's a very heavy we.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Oh, come on now.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

I'll be nice. All right. We're not gonna go, we're not gonna open that camera.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

No, we're not, but we do have a lot of knowledge in the capabilities of cameras.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

And I think that is largely in part from having because I'm gonna, I don't even like to claim that I have any technology background because I feel like I'm very naive in that. But what we learned we did a lot of external research and networking with people within some of those surveillance type, like there's the uh who's your educator conference, something or other in Indy every year, and we we got to go with that. Um, we got to go to that. And the networking, the talking with some of those people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Um we talked with private company.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

So what what was the one that I love there? I wear I wear their hat.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Vircata.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yes, vircata. Oh my gosh. Anyways, sorry. I have their hat. They gave me well, they actually mailed the hat to Nick.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

I stole it. That's what I run in. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Because I did most of the talking.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

I don't I will talk here because I'm not like with I can't see people. I feel like I'm just in my basement talking to you, and that's what makes this work for me. But like people interacting is not I like to watch people.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Amy's saying the problem with misread plates that are being charged for things in the area.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

We've had two specific instances where our license plates have like Riverlink, prime example.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

We're not gonna go into that.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

I'm just saying, uh, yes, to tie back into that. Nick actually got a bill sent to him.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

It uses a it uses a computer program with artificial intelligence to read the plate, automatically disseminate tickets out and tolls out at the end.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

And we talked about that Monday night too, which with the speeding tickets.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

It's not a human being that's reading these things.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Well, there is no human beings, I think, at Riverlink anyway.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

That's what I want to talk about with these flock cameras. Okay, the amount of technology that are in these cameras is unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

They can their capabilities.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Absolutely. So they can, I'm not even kidding, immediately take a face from a picture or anything uh that's being presented to them. Um, it could be, let's say, somebody they want to find. Um they put out a bolo. Okay, look, hang on.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

But you gotta you gotta specify that. No, they can put out the system, you have the camera itself, and then you have the operating system that functions.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

But there are so it's all cloud-based, and it's all accessible to all of the agencies that pay for the access. Okay, yes, because it costs the money.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

But not all cameras, not all security cameras have the same capabilities because you're older if it's being pushed to these cameras.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Um trust me, they're gonna have this capability. I'm just saying they're gonna ensure that it's another rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

If anyone wants to go down the rabbit.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

This is a very new technology. Yes. Um, as far as the cameras being installed, they're newer versions of cameras. Therefore, I know because we've had this technology for about three years now, where we're using artificial intelligence to read faces. Oh, it's fascinating. Push out alerts, not just read faces, but we can read objects like weapons.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

And detect like through clothing, all those things.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

We can detect all these things and send alerts if the alerts are set to be received for stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

And they can, yeah, they can go to your phone, like the users, like because they're programmable as far as like using the phone.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Amy, this is wild. I'm telling you, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

I'm gonna steal Nick's thunder on that one because they gave us a demo. Yeah, it was one of the and when you walk in the door, okay, it it picks up your face and it literally can find, like you can do a search. So like you could say and if you have it in the database, yes, so it automatically could flag that person, but then it will do something like you could say, okay, red shirt, and it will literally track that red shirt throughout the every location that has been on the premises within those campuses. And you can track, oh, it's fantastic. Again, some of those companies, uh, so the capabilities, like like we were saying, it is there. Like technology is there, and it is so great.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

That is so And if you think that law enforcement and the government is not going to use that.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

I don't know that some of them know.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

I well, that's true too.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Because we just learned I'm not even gonna call anybody out, I'm not gonna call anybody out.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Well, I I knew of a lot of technologies that we had when I was working for the government, but I was in a federal agency. I was privy to a lot of things that one of the big reasons why I'm not working for that agency anymore and why I left.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Okay, let me ask you this. So if I said, because this is something that I learned, let's see. I'm on break right now. So I'm on my summer break from school. Uh I go back in August, but um, so this is I've been out like a week, I think.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I think it was probably week five when we talked about Miranda. I think week five. Anyways, um, I I so my bachelor's was criminal justice. Okay. So we studied Miranda pretty heavily, I thought, um, from a crime justice side of things. And then in law school, I get the legal side of Miranda, which is just as fascinating to me, which maybe I'm a nerd, I'm gonna geek out a little bit, but Miranda was absolutely fascinating, okay? And all I'm gonna say is there are without throwing anybody any kind of shade, that's not what I'm trying to do, but there are people that are acting in law enforcement that have no understanding of Miranda. And what I mean by that is they're not taught, yeah. It's not taught. It's just hey, you Mirandize, that's all you gotta know. Here's your card, read this verbatim.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

I mean, I was taught because of where I went, right.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

You were taught the the history behind it, right? Because it went to a you know a federal level, so but there are so many people that again, like there are people uh as citizens that don't know what, oh, pleading the fifth means, and that to me just blows my mind. So hence where all this is gonna kind of come full circle, we're trying to kind of explain things in a more user-friendly way to help. And that's kind of what we're hoping to do.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Long story short.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

When we look at the federal lane of these flock cameras, you know, how the question remains how do investigators actually use location data and what changes for them now? Because with this SCOTIS ruling, you know, we are fascinated by case law. And I honestly think everyone should be because case law is what determines law. It is what allows you to do what is legal and what you can do anything you want. The human knows you can practically do whatever you set your mind to. Uh, but we have rules in place, and those rules are called laws.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

And those laws get created by initially Well, yeah, we have federal and then we have state.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, right, and then you have federal statutes and you have state statutes. Indiana Code for Indiana, every state has its own code, and then there's also US Code, which are the laws. Now, those laws were created long, long, long, long time ago. And they're ever changing because of case.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Case law.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

So anytime someone is being tried or prosecuted for a crime, that if it's a federal crime, it falls under the statute of US Code 18, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. If it is a state, like in Indiana, and it's a state law that it's violating, it falls under Indiana Code, whatever. And you have to meet the statutes of that crime or law that has been broken and prosecuted now. If it is found that that person is guilty and it is goes to appeal and it gets to the Supreme Court, or even before the Supreme Court, and they are found not guilty based on certain it has to be certain things by a judge, and they are acquitted, or the conviction is overturned. That now becomes a subsect of law for that code, and it has to be rewritten because you have new basis law. That's the most so that's the most crazy that's the wildest thing to try to understand. You you will, I mean, there's so you think about it. Think about how many times this code has been violated, and this many people have convicted, and this many people have been exonerated from that conviction. And all of that is documented.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

But wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Now, okay, I'm it's all documented, but not everybody knows about it.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Hang on, because I'm gonna look something up.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Because we were talking about so we were talking about case law and I have a tie-in and how this changes for investigators.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Hang on.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Because with going back to the the geofencing that SCODAS ruled on, and they said to send it back to uh what was that?

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Um nine hours ago. Yeah. Who okay? Amy probably saw it. I think she even shared it. So nine hours ago, Casewalker Chronicles posted an investigative insight. Anyone in the chat that's watching right now, does anybody know what that investigative insight was? We need the Jeopardy music.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Crickets. No, but Amy, you're totally right. Yeah, they push them through in six weeks.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Yeah, very, very quick.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

So, okay, so today's investigative insight that I shared on the Casewalker Chronicles, I do also have Money Trail Investigations Facebook page where I push out some of these things as well. So, for instance, this one that I talked about is prime because this is the kind of stuff that is again, I'm nerding out. I apologize in advance. But so it's news to you. Oh my gosh. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

So he has so much to learn.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

I know. See, we no one teaches this in history. I feel like if schools were teaching in this manner, kids would learn. I hated history. I hated government when I was in school. And I am in law school. It blows my mind. I'm like, it doesn't, I am so intrigued now. I didn't care at all.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Yeah, when we were younger, no.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

But I don't know. Anyways. So, okay, the investigative insight that Case Walker posted today, for decades, agencies got to interpret their own rules. Courts just changed that. In 2024, the Supreme Court overturned Chevron Deference. Courts no longer automatically defer to how agencies interpret ambiguous laws. That shift has real consequences for anyone challenging an agency decision or denial. And this was actually the Loper Bright Enterprises First Raimondo in 2024. What was so interesting, and I say this to say, I told you guys I was in law school, I just had to take a final, and my final was a proctored exam. We could have one sheet front and back, handwritten over six weeks worth of case law and um canons of statutory interpretation, all the things, right? So this case, chevron deference was how courts were supposed, it was a two-step process. That's how you were, you know, interpreting law. And what was so interesting is we had to learn it. It doesn't even apply anymore. So it's like, what's the point? Why do I even need to know if today it technically doesn't apply in the same way? But it it changed the way it was a 90-year like law that was overturned. And it's just like so everybody's been learning it this way for the past 90 years, and now they only had to learn it one way, and now all of us learn it pre-2024 and post-2024, and it was June 28th of 2024. And so any case before that was looked at it with this way, and then post post Loper Bright, it is this way.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

So that's why it's oh it's so important to do your own research because it's always changing. It's always changing. Um, we are like some people know, we are we are in our own civil litigation right now in civil court uh with the county that we live in against a uh a big company. Uh give me just one second. This always does this during the stream after about an hour.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

I was gonna say, what? I can't believe that.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

No, you have to blind.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

I even wore my glasses the next time and I still can't. I literally have to have my computer right now.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

We we're in a civil lawsuit with a major company in the town that we live in.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

And that's all we're gonna say about that because we're not talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

I know, but we're pro se, so we're doing this on our own without an attorney. And the reason I say that is because it totally ties into what exactly what we're talking about and why it's so fascinating for us learning all this. Because attorneys, even though you may hire an attorney to help you with a case, an investigation, whatever it may be, that's fantastic. They know a lot about quit eating all my minutes. Sorry, you got one left. You they know a lot about the court and how to proceed with paperwork. And and the law too. I will say that. But yeah, but older attorneys tend to not keep up so much with the ever-changing laws.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Well, I don't think most people have Google alerts for SCOTUS. I'm just saying. I don't I maybe they do, but I that's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

It really takes it really takes a lot to keep up with all the changes.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

But if you're tell the people how many hours a day it takes.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Hours. But if if you're looking into something in particular and want to make sure that what you're looking into is up to date, you're going to do that. You're gonna put in the time. An attorney may not. They just may be filing the paperwork, doing how they've done it.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Well, and like I said, I'm literally from the time I wake up, I am at my computer. So we have I I guess to kind of give you a little backstory here. We have our house's two-story house. We have our upstairs, we have our basement. And our basement also houses our gym, which maybe one day we'll turn the camera and you can see it. We have a home gym because Nick does.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

If you want to see the gym, go to get out and live shit on TikTok. I stream all the time.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Yeah, he does like daily lives where he does his workout videos, and that's our home gym. So that's literally to our right. And then the section that we're in is the podcast studio. So this is where we actually record all of the Case Walker Chronicles podcast episodes. Um, this is also where Nick has his computer and he does all of his work down in the basement.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Because I do all the video editing.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

And we have our daughter's hamster that she gave to us because she couldn't keep him anymore. So we have our nightly, we call him the rat. But anyways, he's got he's in the basement. He keeps Nick company. And then upstairs in our living room is your office, is my office. Um, and I chose that because I really wanted to look outside all the time. Um, because all of my offices because she's paranoid. Uh paranoid, yes. But no, uh the offices when I worked for the school, because I worked for the school for 10 years. My office, my first job, I was a secretary. Well, actually, I was an IA, and then I was the secretary. And we had this huge glassed in area that we were at. And that was my office. So I always could look outside. I could watch the snow, I could see, and then I started getting like I went to the administration building in a treasurer role, and then I went to technology. And when I was in technology, I was literally in a closet. I had no windows or anything, and I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Every office was a closet.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Every office was a closet. So it's like, I can't take this. So when we when we left our jobs and we started um, you know, the PI firm and the podcasts and the fitness brand and all the things, I started law school. I wanted a desk area where I could look outside and I have my fireplace there. So, anyways, I'm upstairs. But I wake up in the morning and I go to my office and I sit pretty much until Nick forces me to go do something else.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

But I will say the greatest thing is for the most part so far, we've been able to just like up and okay, we need to go get groceries, so we go. Or we just up and oh, we want to go out alone. I rarely leave the house. We just go.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

But it's great for hermits.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Yes, you're you're we won't go down that path. No, it is socially awkward. It has been fantastic for us because we are more of an impromptu oh yeah, and night people.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

We're night people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

So I like the night. Being able to sleep in till 10 sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

It's pretty great. I don't I don't function well.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

She does. I don't sleep. I have insomnia.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

So I get up, mmm, I don't know, maybe 10-11.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Yeah, it was about 10-11.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

And it was funny, true story today.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I literally looked at him.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

It was four, four, like four forty-five, and I was like, well, I think I'm gonna go get lunch now.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

That was my lunchtime because I was like, I I don't know. I I don't do mornings, like it literally takes me all day to like get myself together. And I think I think I I I passed that on to my kids because like all hours of the night, like my niece, she just had her baby, so she's up all hours of the night.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Yeah, and it gave us the opportunity to watch our niece or our great kids.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Yeah, the baby got to come home to our house from the hospital, so it it was so the timing was good. It it worked out perfectly. Uh we this this allows us to do a lot of different things, and the podcast was one of the things because people were always telling us, hey, like we go out on the boat, like we go out on the boat with our family, and it always comes up like true crime cases or like and people just kept always telling us, Hey, you need to do this, you need to do that. So we did the podcast, and people how do you know this?

SPEAKER_01 53:18

How do you know that?

SPEAKER_00 53:19

So, this is why then people wanted more of the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

And I think it could have just been our family, and for the most part, that's what maybe they're being nice.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

I don't know. If it you you gotta share, like, you know, get it out there because maybe this is the worst thing we've ever done.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

But we know when we were when we were at crime con, we met some cool people, and they you know, and maybe it was just a show of face type of thing and being nice, but they were all when we explained kind of what we did, they all, you know, said, Oh, we're gonna check it out.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

We love your personalities, but and that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

So we are trying to do hit this hot and heavy and be more available to the public and get as much out there as we can as far as content goes, um, when it comes to what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Yeah, and I'm off I'm I'm out of case law until August.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

So I don't have to do as many readings. Like we were doing um, because I was taking two classes, and each class had usually three to four cases.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Law school is no joke. She would be working on homework or discussions or whatever it may be for hours.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Well, because like you're I had to read like SCOTUS, that's what I'm talking about. Like I had to read, and when and when these justices give this, um, so they have their their you know, there's there's your your pleadings, and then you also have your dissent, you have your majority votes. I mean, and we had to read all of that, and it's just like, oh my gosh, the pages that you read.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

And thank you, Maddie.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

It it it's a lot, and so like I said, I will probably when I hear the word chevron, which of course I think old school gas station, but Chevron's an oil company. Yeah, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Like or it was, I don't know if they still like it.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Like that's what I thought. Like, I I literally can see the image in my head. So the whole time I'm doing all this case law stuff, I'm thinking in so when I hear chevron deference, that's what comes to my head is that Chevron gas station.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Are you not thinking about the Latin term chevron deference? What does it come from?

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Case law.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

I'm just saying in my head, that's the way things work. It's it's spaghetti up there. It's literally like like a mixed. See?

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Chevron deference is not at has nothing to do with the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

I know it doesn't. I know it doesn't. I'm just telling you. Like every time we would spend, like, we would have these lectures, and I'm like, all I can see in my head is this gas station emblem. I I it it like I said, it's spaghetti.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Yeah, I I mean when I first heard it too, I thank you. That's what I kind of thought. And then you're learning, oh, it's something totally different.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

After I bored you to sleep with, hey, you want to hear about this?

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Oh no, I knew about Chevron Deference in in Fletzi. Because it's been around forever.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

The more you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

It's I mean, it was uh it was forever ago when that was established.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

90 plus years ago.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Let's see, let's see. Let me look. I think I wrote it down.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

I don't know if you have it in this. Uh I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

I digress. Anyways, this okay, we're gonna move on because I think everybody's sick of hearing about Chevron Deference. Yeah, and and we're gonna just put that.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Let's transition to our next video.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

This one. You gotta read this one. Uh have you seen this story yet? No, y'all better hold on to your hats, okay? If you haven't already, share this live because this is probably the greatest story. And I have I've I'm just saying this one's great.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

All right, to keep it lighter, yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

You all better give me some emotion or something in this chat. But it's a real federal case. It's a real case.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

On July 1st, just this past week, 2026, border patrol agents at the checkpoint. Jess. Okay. Jess is on here. I think she is. She's gonna kill me for murdering this name, but it's Falfarias, Texas. So on the border, somewhere in Texas, about 70 miles north of the border. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

So about an hour away from the border on the roads, whatever. They border patrol stopped an 80-year-old Luke David Brader and his 74-year-old wife, Susan Jordan Brader, both of Bay City, Texas. They were in a White Dodge Ram 2500 towing an enclosed box trailer. Nothing new about that. Nothing new. Nope. You know, totally normal. 2500 towing a trailer. Yep. A canine alerted to the front wall of the trailer. An X-ray at secondary inspection revealed a hidden compartment holding a hundred and thirty-four packages of Columbian Bam Bam. Had the cocaina in the trailer in a hidden compartment.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

That's more than 345 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

According to the federal criminal complaint, both told DEA agents they knew narcotics were inside and expected to be paid between 5,000 and 10,000 to drive the trailer to Houston. The couple appeared in federal court on July 6th and a charge of possession more than five kilograms of cocaine with intent to distribute. Now, here's my problem, okay? They waived a preliminary hearing and were ordered. Um isn't that epic? It is. But here's my problem with the justice system.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

And I knew you were gonna go there.

SPEAKER_01 59:04

Here's my freaking problem.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

Go get on that soapbox. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 59:08

I will, because you have to, as an investigator, okay, they're being charged with possession with intent to distribute.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

But they weren't, okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Stop. I'll stop you. Okay, because you try to look at that. If you look at the statute and you read the statute and you see what they're doing and you investigate it, how do you prove intent? Well, you got to prove intent on a lot of statutes within the federal criminal justice system. And how do you prove intent?

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Who needs 345 pounds of cocaine?

SPEAKER_01 59:38

I understand. They don't.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

They were getting paid by They were muling it. Yes, they were muling it. There's a movie on this. The Mule with Clint Eastwood.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Don't you have that on there?

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Dang it, I missed the wrong one.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Yeah, I got it there.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Somebody needs to take over sound effects.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

No, okay. So this is gonna go to court, and there's gonna be a big hoopla about this because they're, you know, they're old people that were taken advantage of by probably a younger person.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

I mean, I think it's because they're limited on a fixed income. And we understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

We don't know the particulars. No, we don't. These are just a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

It was one of those cases that I looked at and I was like, but we wanted to keep it light on this episode. Yeah, and it's not light. I'm not making fun. We're not doing that. What it's a very real case. It is. What's what's shocking to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

What pisses me off about the whole thing is they're not the criminals.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

No, I think they were I think they're victims, but yet they are But they knew they were accepting money for moving a trailer.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

Five, they were gonna okay, so it said they were expected to be paid anywhere from five to ten thousand dollars just to drive the trailer to Houston.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

Yeah, I'm just saying But they knew narcotics were inside.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

Okay, yeah, I understand that. But you think like I I'm all they're not intending to distribute, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

It's who they get it to, but the statutes of the law re only require you to be moving it and know and knowing that it is going to be distributed because that amount, I mean, talk. I'm 355.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Explain why it's federal.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Oh, because it's cross it did cross from Mexico to Interstate commerce. Well, on the interstate, but it obviously has to go between two and I'm I mean they were 70 miles from the border, so you can one can almost assume as that trailer went from Mexico to Texas, obviously. Yeah, um, and probably even further, or it was loaded up, moved to Mexico through mules, loaded up in Mexico, and then transferred to Texas. Now who knows? Nobody really. But the thing is, with this, it's it's ridiculous. You know, they're gonna get charged, they're 80, 74 years old, they're just out trying to make some money, you know, a little extra cash on the side. Yes, they probably should have not moved the cocaine. They probably should have picked something else to do. It is illegal.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

What else are you gonna do where you can make that much money? I'm just saying playing devil's advocate.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

You can play devil's advocate all you want, but just understand there's a reason why laws are there because those drugs cause problems.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

I 100% agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

What I'm also saying is And what if those drugs get in the hands of a toddler whose parent is irresponsible after they purchase the drug?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Now we're talking about a whole different systemic effect.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

It's a butterfly effect, it's a butter butterfly effect. You know? If you don't have them there in the first place, they can't be mishandled and misused.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

Now, again, with this case, I think it's important to note A. Right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

It's very preliminary.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

And it it it is just alleged, no convictions yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Right. They've been charged.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

And again, who knows what's gonna come? They could take a plea. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

I mean, just don't turn them into cartoons. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

You're mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

No, I'm just saying you know what's gonna happen. You know what's gonna happen when it hits mainstream, and and that's the thing that it's like because it was one of those things where it's like, oh, okay, well, it's so shocking. I'm sorry, I literally I'm with Amy. I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, not my grandma and grandpa. Like, I'm thinking not me, me and Papa. Yeah, like, no, this can't be. Like, how does this happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

How are we in a world where this is this is what we got to think they are somebody's grandparents, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Yeah, and imagine, imagine that the headline, and that's the thing that is one of those things with social media when it comes. I mean, some of these people are ruthless online, like you know, like we're we got another case where you can be, because nobody cares. Okay, well, maybe I'm the only person that tries to keep some things ethical, and as you will see, I give my disclaimer and I say I'm not giving you legal advice.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

This is alleged, allegedly, and you know what? I think I don't know, can you see? I can't see in the uh do you see my laptop? Yeah, can you see what it says on there?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

I'll show you. Hang on.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

I don't know if you can see it in the you can see all that. Okay, what's that say right now? Allegedly, allegedly, no other side.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:36

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Allegedly. Okay, allegedly. See? I can't see it because I'm blind, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

But that was a that was a funny It's not funny, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

It's a true story, it's a real case, it just happened. Yeah, but and how many people are how many people know about that one? I don't see anybody knowing about that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

All right, we're getting long-winded. Let's move along.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Sorry, I'm gonna take this out because I know you can hear it while I'm so we've got two more, we've got two more things to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Right now, this one and the last one's gonna be we're gonna try to keep it short, but it ain't gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

I doubt it. What are we at right now? We're already at an hour and 16. We have 15 minutes to get the rest of this now.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

But like the first 15 minutes, nobody showed up.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

True, true. All right, I want to know if they have any priors from back in the day, or maybe their luck ran out. I don't know. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how this story develops because Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:32

They're they'll look into all of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

First, okay, sorry, before that that was a good question. That was a good question. Listen, how do you get into something like this?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:43

What do you mean? They were taken advantage of 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

Okay, well, the mule. Let's re let's reference back to that movie. First of all, how does that happen? Like, who do I call? I better watch out. There's gonna be Craigslist. Craigslist, yeah. I bet there's gonna be black SUV sitting outside tomorrow. So

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

No, think about this, okay? I better call someone. Uh no, I mean, okay, think about it. Their age, right? We remember their age, 80 and 74. All right. I have a grandmother who's in her 80s. She has Facebook, she has the internet.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:16

However, however I'm sorry, she's not going down to Texas to pick something up on a U-Haul. I'm gonna tell her you said that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

Now, my grandma used to be uh, she was a singer way, way back in the day. And from what I've learned, she done some pretty wild stuff, you know, here and there. But I will tell you that as you age, as you age, no, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Oh, at that time. We didn't learn about that until we were well in our 30s. Um, that my grandma, you know, when she was I had no idea she was a singer until like Thanksgiving a couple years ago. Yeah. But not I'm trying to make this brief. 74 and 80. They're elderly. Okay. Not we don't know the state of mind that these two elderly people are in.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

But it's a free vacation.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Shit. We've talked about it ourselves. What are we doing? We could just go we could just go get in the drug business and make money if we wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

Yeah, but we have.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

Morals. But if you've lived on this earth for 80 years, your moral moral compass might get a little construed.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Maybe it's drinks. Maybe you're like, okay, we don't know anyway. We don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

I mean, but I can tell you, my grandma, my my grandma, I could see her honestly, you know, getting a phone call saying and be persuaded to make an easy 10 grand, just you know, five grand when you pick it up, five grand when you drop it off. I I still don't see it. And maybe they said they knew that narcotics were in it only because they suspected it, but were never told. And if they were never told, they can never prove that's what they were moving.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

So what did we assume? Okay, let's let's again, devil's advocate. Maybe they didn't know because it was in the secret compartment, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

So Why are you moving a trailer for a trailer? Yeah. And first we just hold on, hold on. Because we know, we know we just moved, our family just moved a storage unit, a shed, a storage shed, you know, a built storage shed that goes in the back of your yard that you put your lawnmower in and your storage. Moved it from here. One went about two hours away, and that cost nine hundred dollars. Okay. Two hours away from here, it's a hundred and I don't know, a hundred miles.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:57

I think that's the job I'm gonna start doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

So it's a hundred miles. It cost nine hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

And it was moved with one shed. What just one shed.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

It was empty.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:09

Now, who is paying five or ten thousand dollars to move a trailer from the country. Nobody. Nobody. That's just an astronomical amount of money.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

They were going out of the country, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

So that's why they said in their heads they knew.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

I I don't know. Uh the whole thing was I have so many questions. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

Why they were pulled over. Uh, were they mentally capable to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

That would say that took a turn. That took a turn. And I apologize because we are very nice people. We are.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:45

I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

I'm just saying, I think it's a wild story. I it's definitely now a Google alert for me. Yeah. I will I will tell you all. Google alerts are the best thing ever because it literally will email you all of the details.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:01

It just ticks me off because I I I bet these people were taken advantage of.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

I strongly, I strongly think they were because I mean, again, I And they're gonna get charged and no one else will.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Well, they're not gonna find out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Drugs are very lucrative in this country.

unknown 1:10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

That's a very big source of economic revenue.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

Yeah, like income for police. Sorry. We didn't say that. Well, yeah, we didn't say that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:23

Disregard that. You're gonna edit that out.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

No, I'm not. They keep they keep people having jobs.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

That's all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Drugs keep people having jobs.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

That's all I'm gonna say. I look at the job. That's why they're still in this country.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

That's why they're still in this country.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

I mean, it's I'll say it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:39

I don't care. I'm raw and unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:42

Again, this is not legal advice.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

All right, we're moving on to the This is very, very sad and hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

And the only reason I put this in tonight's episode was because I don't know why you put it right after grandma and grandpa. I wanted the light, I wanted the light in the mood, and then I feel like we gotta end. It's like I can't hear your sound effects, remember, so I don't know what you're saying. It's the trombone that goes womp womp womp womp. I don't like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

She can't hear what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

I can't hear anything. I'm like, it's like the blind leaning the blind around here. Anyways, uh this no, because this needs to be discussed. This is something, and I I say this because if you were here for Monday night's episode, again, if you weren't here for Monday night's episode, you can catch the replay on YouTube, the Casewalker Chronicles.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

Do you have a grammatical error?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

Where? What do I really have an error? Now I'm looking at it. I'm like, did I spell something wrong? I literally point that out and like everything. Yeah, musical talent. You should see. Oh my gosh. This basement, we got a little bit of everything in here. I got a ukulele sitting over there. Anyways, okay, to preface this, okay, we do have a 21, 21-year-old child in college. Yeah, we also um have a boat, and our um my in-laws have a pontoon, and we spend a good amount of time on the lake. Okay. Uh, I grew up with a lake house, uh, spent a lot of time on the lake. My dad used to have a pontoon, all the things.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

I lived in a trailer park. That's the dichotomy that we have.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:51

This is what it's like to live in this house. For most of you that are probably watching this live, you probably all are already our friends, and you know the uh what's the word I'm looking for? You know the atmosphere. The atmosphere that you've walked into. The people that are willingly just kind of like coming in, yeah, dynamic. Thank you. The people that are just like scrolling through, you're missing out. Like, I don't know how to get this. That's why we wanted this live. We wanted to do the live version where we can tell you the stories, give you the information, but we can also be ourselves in a little less formal atmosphere.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Hey, plug-plug your ears real quick. No, plug your ears real quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

Oh, they're already kind of plugged.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

I'll whisper. Plug your ears.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

Let me know if you can hear me whisper because I gotta get you to say something.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

Plug your ears.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

No, moving on. We're gonna tell this story because we're getting plug your ears.

unknown 1:13:50

Everybody comment on her hair.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

What'd you say?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

I'm gonna have to watch the replay.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:57

You might find out.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

What's that? What'd you say?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:02

They can kind of hear me. Okay, I need it to be louder.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Anyways.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:06

Hang on. Let me turn me up real quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:09

Alright.

unknown 1:14:10

Everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:14

I can't hear you.

unknown 1:14:15

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

Now you're making me nervous.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:24

Okay. Who heard me? Because I haven't seen it yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:31

You gotta hit that like that that like button on the screen a bunch if you heard what he said, because I didn't hear. I can't hear anything. But I'd also am not wearing headphones. I'm gonna go buy me some tomorrow. Wait a boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:47

Hey, look at me. Look all the way that way?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

You talking about my hair?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:55

Look all the way that way. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:03

She just flipped me off.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

I did not. You all saw nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Oh, see, Maddie said something.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

Um she's so sweet. She's so sweet. My child doesn't neither one of my children will be seen with me now. Let's just say that. Neither one of my children want anything to do with me, which we already knew that anyway. But you can tell neither one of them are on the live.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:26

I even I even shared it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

I am in the point in my life where it's like, we're just gonna live and let live.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:33

Okay. So you're either along for the ride or you're gonna catch the replay.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:38

Thank you, Maddie.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:39

Maddie, Maddie. Maddie San San.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

Matt Maddie heard me.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

She's so sweet. That's my my adopted child in another state. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

This is a sad one.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

This one's a sad one. And it goes, we really, I really wanted to stress this one because this one hurts my heart in a really big way because it hits just way c way too close to home. And again, we spent our 4th of July on the boat. Um, and it was like there was one of these cases, and then the other case, and it was just like, I have to, I have to say something because it needs to be addressed. And my poor children get this kind of information all the time. So I'm gonna continue to share because I feel like we have to educate. And that I'll I'll just keep on preaching. So this one I wanna, I'm gonna try to, I'm gonna try to be really specific and write on it, okay? Because this one I I want to get it right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

So we're not gonna elaborate much after what we read on this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

So take it for what you will hopefully just make good choices. So first is our Kentucky case. So Marley Kinney, spelled M-A-R-L-Y 19, disappeared the afternoon of June 24th, 2026, while boating with a group of about 10 people on Grayson Lake in Carter County. She reportedly left the rented pontoon to use the restroom and didn't return. The group left, unsure where she'd gotten off to. After a multi-agency search using divers, sonar, helicopters, drones, and cadaver dogs, her body was recovered June 28th, around 3 45 p.m. Cause and manner of death are pending, the state medical examiner. The pontoons captain, Cameron Conley, 23 of Ashland, was arrested for voting under the influence after preliminary breath test. He was released and is due in court in July. Now, the distinction that matters with that case is that voting under the influence arrest and her death as of right now are separate facts. No charge connects them. So looking at that case, we are not saying that the one driving the boat had anything to do with it. And actually, from what I've been able to ascertain from the most up-to-date information, is that he was the one that actually went back to look for and like called and said, Hey, we're missing this person. So again, we weren't there, but we don't have those details.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

But right now, that is where that case stands.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:37

We are just going off what has been given to given to investigators at this point, and the information given to investigators comes direct. That information comes directly from the one who has been charged with boating under the influence. So take it with a grain of salt.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

Like I said, that one was the first one that I learned about. And then we have this one. So this one is now Mississippi. So we went from Kentucky, now we're in Mississippi. Nolan Xavier Wells, 18 of Ocean Springs, a football player at Southwest Mississippi Community College, was last seen around 3 p.m. on July 4th, 2026, on Horn Island, a barrier island about 10 miles off the Gulf Coast. According to the Jackson County Sheriff, his friends left the island without him, and he reportedly chose to stay. After a multi-agency search, a U.S. Park Service ranger found a body on July 6th. The coroner identified it as Wells, pending final DNA, and his family confirmed his death. Investigators told Good Morning America they suspect drowning and do not currently believe foul play, but the case is active. The sheriff's office publicly asked for any July 4th photos, video, or eyewitness accounts from the island. Wells family retained attorney Ben Crump calling for a thorough and transparent investigation. All I'm gonna say in regard to the two cases, there's a few huge things that stand out to me. First of all, oh I know that one. First of all, with these two cases Hi April, hi Hannah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

Hi April.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

With these two cases, 18 and 19 years old.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:32

Yeah. Young.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:34

That is so young.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:36

And it it literally we have kids in below and above that age. So right in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:43

I don't know. There's a lot going around online and in the social media sphere. I'm not getting into all of that. What I'm taking away from the two cases, what I what resonates, so to speak, with me is that it's the age and they are so, so young. And it's like they went out with a group of friends trying to have a good time.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:03

Just John LOL, thank you for following. We love you.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:08

Aw, thank you. So with that, I have how many can I get a like if you are currently from Indiana? And also I have some more information.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

Yeah, tell us where you're watching from.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:24

Yeah, tell us where you're watching from. Give us a like, subscribe, share, all the follows, all those things. But here's one. Oh, I was wondering if that was. I thought that was John. Okay, so here's the thing. I'll give it to Hannah because she's in this age group. John, if you're still on here.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

John's watching from Indiana.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:51

All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:52

See, Maddie's in southern Kentucky. I told you.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:00

Whatever. Anyhow's it. Here's the thing for all of you Indiana boaters out there. One more thing that we're going to talk about really quick. If you're on an Indiana lake this summer, Indiana DNR is cracking down harder this year on the Kill Switch cord requirement. It's not actually a brand new law. It actually became federal law in 2021. But DNR is calling it the Lanyard Law. And they're stepping up enforcement in 2026. This does, I promise it's a coincidence. This law applies to boats built 2019 and newer.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:44

You want to check that? I think it was twenty. I checked it twice. Oh, you did? I checked it twice. My dad was misinformed. We were informed uh over the weekend that it was 2016.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:54

It is 2019. I checked twice, and it's not Indiana law, it's a federal law. And I double checked it. Now, they're there, Indiana is choosing to go with something along the lines of if you're up on plane, you're supposed to be clipped in. Now, I will say that for us, our boat is a 1990 Supra. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:14

So we don't have an We don't have a lander kill switch.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:18

There's no kill switch engaged.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:22

No, I uh we just in the 90s, that wasn't you again, it was a different time. It was, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:30

If you're missing this, you miss if you came in in the last like 30 minutes, Hannah. You need to go back, catch the replay on YouTube under the Casewalker Chronicles. We also have episode one. We do go live, which we do want to say, yes. Yeah, it was like, okay, so listen, I have a 1972 Jeep.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:51

Car seats and seatbelts.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:53

I don't have seatbelts in that thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:55

Yeah, because I think it was uh 74 and later they were put in all vehicles. So if your vehicle wasn't designed with them, law doesn't require you to have them.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:07

Also, we we we um encountered this on the lake this weekend.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:12

If you are on a um a jet ski, you have to have a life preserver. But wait, they all have kill switches.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:21

What do you have? Can you just wear it or can it be on there?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

It has to be connected to your body. Correct. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:27

And guess what, friends?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:31

Our friend, the conservation officer, they will be pulling you over. As we were talking to him.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:37

Have to go do it. I mean, you know, to each their own. They gotta do their job. Let them let them do their job. But, anyways, no, seriously, boater safety. Like, that's the thing, right? Like, I I am all about boat sodas, having a good time. I enjoy Nick literally puts me, so we have floaties, right? Sadly, I think I lost I bought four of them last summer.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:00

I know we lost two.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:01

We lost at least two of those.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:03

One got gross and two we just lost.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:06

It just flew out the boat. But anyway, that should be a meme. It just flew out the boat. Um, no, he who he ties my my um can't think of the word, my float.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:20

She is tethered to the boat.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:22

Tethered to the boat, okay, so that I can soak and enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:26

Not worry about floating off into the abyss.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:29

But I'm not trying to judge. Listen, I okay, I had my first child at 17. I understand living life, okay? I am not here to judge you.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:41

She likes to have a good time, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:44

Just want people to be safe and choose your friends very wisely.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:51

And I would just in this world, like with the with the past two instances that we talked about.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:58

Um it's just it's very sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:00

Different choices could have been made to prevent that. But that's with anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

But and I get I get it that you're young and and you don't necessarily have the wherewithal. I hate that word. I can't believe I said it. But anyways, I get that you have, you know, you're just out there to have a good time, but it's like to me as a mom, like now one of my friends, my bestie, that lives away. Well, all of them they I have no friends here, but anyways, they all live away.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:33

Um your sister from another mister?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

Yeah. So this one we met an Oki, Okinawa, Japan, and we had five chitlins, okay? And we spent the entire time we were overseas counting. And when I say counting, it was like one of those. Okay, one, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five. We literally had to head check them one, two, three, four, five to make sure we had all of them because it was just a thing. So it's like, can we like college kids? Listen, go out, have, do whatever. I'm not condoning, like, you know, oh my gosh, John.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:10

Thank you so much. I'm I'm thank you for all the gifts. We love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:13

I'm not, I'm not gonna say, you know, do things you shouldn't do. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying you're gonna live your life, but do a head count. Can we like like if we all go to a bar? If we go with six, can we like do a one, two, three, four, five, six before we go to the next bar? Can we implement that? Like, bring that in so that we uh am I am I too motherly? I don't know. Like, I don't know. Anna, maybe she can yeah. Well, it's because I literally I don't know your name, even the dog's name would get mentioned in there trying to round everybody up. Yeah, see, thank you, John. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, somebody pay me, let me come talk. To the children, Hannah's like, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:02

And I think you know, we thought that had changed a lot. And you're saying that it is, but yet we still have 18 and 19-year-olds that are going out with friends and you know getting in getting themselves in a situation where they don't survive. And this is not think about that. Think about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:22

It's not a standalone thing. That's the whole point. That's what I wanted to do with this specific segment. It's not a one-off situation. It's it's how do we, and I'm so glad that I have so many of you. I know Hannah gets so irritated with me, but how do we reach, how do we reach these this age group? That's why, again, TikTok. I don't know what else to do. TikTok is demographically speaking, it is below our target demographic. But in relation to this kind of message, it is our target demographic. And I don't care if I have to go stand outside of every university with a sign that says do a head count.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:07

I don't know though, with with everything that you know I see on social media. Hey, Anthony, with everything I see on social media where you're only seeing the fun in everything, you know, I've have a feeling that that is what draws that generation or anyone in particular to want to do those things. And they have to kind of put their guard down in some instances to go and do that. Uh, a lot of people have something bad happen to them, someone knows, yeah, they do. And then they start to react. But that's that that's the thing. We don't want we don't want that to happen because then that's an experience that you had to go through that unfortunately keeps you from doing something that potentially you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:59

But we we do have the trauma bond, and I'm not I'm not trying to do that. We're not getting into that. No, we're already uh way past what I thought it was gonna be. Again, I always say these are gonna be quick, but I want them to be interactive and I want I want them to be helpful and useful, and that's why I literally try to push the hey, share this content. Yeah, I'm not trying to give you any legal advice. I'm gonna continue to say that. Um, I'm trying to offer motherly from a criminal justice background, also from right now as being in law school. I'm trying to give this in a format where it's reachable. I spent 10 years in public ed. Um genuinely, the heart for me is helping and sharing, and education is a huge thing for me. And that's kind of where we're coming from. Like, we literally have the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:54

We've gone through a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:55

Yeah. And like, I mean, I'm not gonna try to, I don't try to claim to be anything other than I am because like I we we know that everybody's gone through a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:04

It's just we've given ourselves finally a platform that we can talk about it and because there's so much in society we've got to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:13

We don't think it's talked about enough. Yeah, like and that that's the thing. Like for us, I mean, uh Nick's experience versus my experience in high school from a small town is totally different, but it's like it's not shameful. I don't recommend it, obviously, but I was never ashamed of any part of my history at all. It was, yeah, it's the taboo. It's like I'm not I'm proud of where we are today, and I feel like everything that we have done has led us to this point, but it's like there's so much stigma in our society, and it's like it's ever-changing on like what that stigma is attached to. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:56

Like, I'm gonna say 99.98% of where Lacey is today comes from a high school principal who's no longer with us anymore, that told her to drop out of school when we had a meeting that we were teen parents. That right there.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:19

Okay, let's I will go there because that's just who I am, and I'm at literal, literally, okay. I'm I'm in my era of I'm just live and let live, right? I yes became pregnant at 17. And I did too. You were pregnant, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:39

We were a couple.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:41

I know, sweet, sweet. Anywho, um, I had to go, my dad and I, my dad and I actually, and my dad was actually in the administration of that school corporation at the time. And we had a meeting with my principal because in case you didn't know, when you're pregnant, you go to a lot of appointments. Okay. And so I was going to be missing school. And so my dad and I went to talk to the principal, and we had a sit down and we talked and we said, Hey, we have some news, huh? She's expecting Norbett. I'm with child. So anyway, just had gas. What are we talking about? Bring my wine cooler. But anyway, speaking of the principal looked at us both and said, with the amount of absences that will be accumulating and the time that she will be missing, yeah, might as well drop out of school, might as well drop out.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:40

That was a principal of a high school.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:45

My high school principal told me that I should drop out of school because I was pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:50

And now she's in law school.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:52

Who does that? I am sorry. If you were in the education space and you ever tell a child something like that, a 17-year-old child through a very pivotal moment in their life, and that is your advice.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:09

Yeah. Principal who lacked principles, novels.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:13

I just I cannot. Now, I will say it did take me, and I said this in episode one, it took me 20 years. We graduated high school in 2006. I got my bachelor's in 2026. But I will say, this is sad, and it's gonna sound petty. And if it puts me on that level, it does. Whatever. I graduated the week before he passed away.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:41

It's just coincidence.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:42

I mean, there are no coincidences in investigations.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:46

Well, I will say that the 20 years was largely due to the circumstances that we were in in life and the choices we made and everything like that. Yes, and we are always the fact that your graduation date perseverance fell on a time when an individual who had a huge impact in your life in a positive way, but not the way people would think, it changed your demeanor and determination to continue and be and better yourself so that you had provide a better life for our children. The fact that he passed away the same week that you were scheduled to graduate is kind of wild.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:32

It's it's the universe.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:34

It's kind of wild because he was a a huge pivotal um.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:40

I mean, that's huge. That's I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:43

It was. It was it was it was it was definitely devastating. Yeah, because I mean I was I wasn't in that meeting. Okay, I mean And I'm glad I wasn't because I probably would have been kicked out of school.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:54

I I just can't like I love okay, this is gonna sound really weird because I love people and I don't like people, but I genuinely like if you look at all of my like since I in my adult life, all of my careers, all of my things that I have done, they are people socially social aspect, social serving jobs. Okay. I genuinely have that that passion to like help people and care for people, and that somebody would ever like I don't even think I don't know. I I I might think it maybe in my head, but I don't think I would ever come out and say, like, nah, boo, just move along.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:39

Yeah, and I and I know I'm I'm a little bit different. Um I am what they would call hypocritical, I guess. I want to help people that want to help people. I want to destroy people that bring others down. Um and because there's too much of it, like but you're supposed to help those people too.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:02

You're supposed to be supposed to help and love everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:04

Everyone, yes, you are. And and I have to catch myself sometimes and realize that I don't know those circumstances, I don't know their position in life, I don't know what they're going through, I know what I'm going through, and that's all. So, not to get philosophical or psychological in this.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:20

Yeah, that kind of took a way roundabout.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:23

But no, we were talking about these young kids and how we are doing what we're doing to chat and foster discussion, foster thought to anyone who's willing to listen. Um, to use your brain.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:44

I think social media is a fantastic platform. Yeah, except we have created a world.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:53

We haven't figured out how to use it properly yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:55

Yes, it's it's so like you get on okay, and I'm gonna give you a little teaser because now granted, my son claims he doesn't have TikTok. I don't even know. I think he said he deleted it. He probably did, but listen, I spend way too much time on TikTok. Probably.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:12

We're gonna go ahead and say that's natural, but that is proven from the amount of messages of TikToks that I get from my wife.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:21

But, anyways, so here's my my teaser because I am strongly trying to make it in this world. It's gonna happen. I have the personality for it, I know, and I know Hannah is absolutely loving this because I sent her a snap today and she left me on.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:41

Yeah, it's the elder millennial in all of us. She left you on red.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:45

I don't even I don't know actually because my phone's over there, so I don't even know. She didn't answer. So I did my hair, which I know Nick has already talked about it. I well, Nick and I did my hair and Yeah, who did your hair? Well, Nick did most of the back of it, and I did the front.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:58

And I sent Hannah more than half.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:00

Whatever. I sent I sent Hannah the snap today because she didn't like it. Alex doesn't want to be seen with me with my new hair. And so I send Hannah the snap and I ask her if this is better. She didn't respond. I like it, so and and my father-in-law has already given his his comment about it. He gave it to Alex today when he went down there.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:26

But you know, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:28

She said she did.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:29

Okay, she said this is better. So I did have to place an Amazon cricket noise. Nick, you missed it. I I I purchased some accessories to go with it. But again, it's in the live and let live, right? We're in the moment, we're living, we're just gonna, we're just gonna full send. Send it.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:48

Right. Okay, so anyway, because going back to a 90s pop culture reference, and if you build it, they will come.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:58

And this has been an extremely long episode, and I swear I really am trying to create short form, but the interaction with the people is what we want. Okay, and with that, I'm going to leave you with tonight's mic drop story. Who's ready for this story? Give me some kind of something in the chat because I know you all want to hear this story. Tonight's story. Who's ready for it?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:35

Jamie Knoll. I grew up. The former sheriff of Clark County, Indiana. I have family in Clark County.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:44

Are you gonna read this, Nick?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:46

I grew up in Clark County, Indiana. In office from 2015 to 2022. Prior to that, he was a state trooper.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:58

I didn't know that, actually, when I when I saw that in the documentary.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:01

For almost 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:03

I was so surprised. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:05

And once a powerful state Republican operative, Amy, you know exactly what we're talking about, was originally charged with 31 felonies stemming from an Indiana State Police corruption probe, the agency that he previously worked for, into his misuse of money from fire and EMS departments that he oversaw in on August of 2026, or August 26, 2024. So two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:38

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

He pleaded guilty to 27 of those 31 counts, including theft, official misconduct, tax evasion, money laundering, corrupt business influence, and obstruction of justice. On October 14th, 2024, special judge Larry Medlock sentenced him to 15 years with three years suspended. Um, and to probation.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:10

Suspended to probation, meaning 12 years to serve.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:14

Right, three years probation. 12 years to serve in jail after roughly 20 victim statements in open court. That was wild. With credit for time served and good behavior. That was a plea deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:32

Keep going, we're gonna get deeper.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:35

Okay. Um, he could serve around nine and a half years for that on good behavior. Medlock also imposed a $270,000 fine, $10, $10,000 per count, and ordered more than $3.1 million in restitution, most of it about $2.87 million to the Utica Fire Utica Volunteer Fire Department or Firefighters Association. Investigators said Noel ran up more than $2 million in personal expenses on cards belonging to the departments he controlled. Vacations, Rolex watches, alcohol, a collection of dozens of classic cars, cigars, and at sentencing, Medlock told him he had tarnished the badge. In line with the WHS 11 documentary that takes its name from. Newell's wife, Misty, and daughter Casey also faced charges for funds that they spent personally. Roughly 20 victims.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:46

Has anyone watched the documentary yet?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:50

Oh, it's good. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:53

It's alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:54

We're gonna pause that. We're gonna pause that. Listen, I'm not trying to be anyway, but the information that it provided was good. Great.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:01

The way they put it together and how they edited it from an editor's standpoint who does video was not that great.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:10

Not great.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:10

I was gonna say something for worse, but I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:13

I'm I'm here to lighten the mood. Listen, listen. We audio was terrible. We do podcasts, we do live streams, and we have our flaws too.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:24

We have oh 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:25

We are a very flawed individual. But when you're putting out a publication that goes the top to a news a news, um, I think it was on you have to have the WHS 11 app.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:41

So it we were able to get the app on an Amazon, Amazon Fire Stick, but Xfinity, you could not get it. I wasn't able to get it on Xfinity Flex. That's another streaming service that we have through our internet. Uh, and Roku. I think Roku you can get. It's that's what it said. You can get Roku uh WHS 11.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:01

The main takeaway is it's WHAS 11 and it is literally called produced by them. Yeah, it is literally called Tarnished the Badge. Um and it it was a good documentary in the fact that it was very good, in my opinion, investigative journalism.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:19

However, surprisingly, the inst and the Indiana State Police did very well. However, I'll I'll I'll reserve it. I'll reserve what I'm going to say for later.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:32

I have not even gone down that road.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:35

I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:36

Anyway, to me, this ties into the complete package. I'm not saying that there are honestly, I don't think there's any place in the United States that doesn't have the good old boy system. Yeah. But I this is one of those those cases to me where it screams what the small town, the small people with the normal names are constantly facing.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:12

I think it is a and and the thing that I you know, I will say, and I don't remember where exactly, if it was in the documentary, if it was in my research, I can't remember. But I know someone had made the comment that they went through ISP's academy with him and they weren't surprised.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:33

Uh yeah. It just that man had his finger in so many pots that it was unreal.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:41

So, but but here's the thing that really threw me, okay, and this is where I want to get some feedback because this is what really surprised me. Because when I was listening to this, everyone in the state of Indiana, I think, has had has heard this story. And I think what I was kind of like, what? What I was shocked by was that I think he genuinely from the start had the best of intentions. Like I think because it was said in the documentary created the the ambulance service, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:13

New chapel, new chapel, new chapel emt ambulant ambulatory services for fire and rescue. So every most small towns, your ambulance service isn't run by your hospital.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:28

It's like run by a second private. Secondary private, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:33

And that was run by a volunteer fire department. Even though the fire department was volunteer and not for profit, New Chapel, the funds that the fire department got from the city from taxes paid for New Chapel ambulatory fire and EMS services, which was a paid-for program because you had to you have to pay EMTs. You can't have volunteer EMTs. So therefore, he controlled, he was the head of that. And then he stepped down from that after he became Well, it shifted into a after he became sheriff, he switched it, switched, changed roles, but still remained on like a board member type deal. But he was the one that made all the purchases, all the calls. It was called Tarnish the Badge. Tarnishing or tarnished the badge or tarnishing the badge. I can't remember. It's one of those. Um, it's not betraying the badge.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:43

Okay. Uh so it's literally tarnished the badge, the Jamie Knoll story. And I actually, there's, I don't know if I can get this on there.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:52

I don't know how I get this over there. I'm on my laptop. I need to get it to Nick over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:57

You want it there? Yeah. I can get it there.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:59

Can you get it? Can you go? Oh, can I put it in the dock?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:02

Snip, yeah, do a snipping, put it in the dock. I'll download it and put it on there. So while she's doing that, I'll talk about this a little bit. Because this is a small town, and because we know about I'm gonna go back to what I was gonna discuss. Okay. You have that.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:23

This is I think this is the article, but it tells you how to watch.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:26

Let me bear with us just a moment here.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:33

So you may be able to actually just copy that and drop it into the chat. Because it shows.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:40

Let's do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:42

But um bump. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:46

Can you click on the link we just posted? I'll pin it. Let us know if you can. You may have to like copy and paste it into your browser. I don't know if TikTok. I don't know how that works.

unknown 1:49:59

Halo.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:02

I said so too.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:03

See, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:04

But while while we're looking into that, let's I want to talk about um the good old boy system for a second.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:11

Oh see, my name is Lala. That's my that's my name. Because I'm like a grandma kind of.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:18

Okay, you just gotta copy and paste the the link. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:22

Okay, awesome. So that works for that. And and really quick, I don't know where Nick was going, but stop. I'm trying to. We're both on the same Google Doc, but on two different computers. And like I can see his mouse moving is stressing me out. Like, I do want to give you one thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:42

Oh, about Jamie Knowle?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:43

About yeah, well about that case. It's the legal side of it because, because, and here's for this was one of those things we literally, like I said, we had our um 4th of July boating outing. We actually spent so last week, Nick and I were on the boat three days last week. Nice. It was nice, except this it was hot and the sun. I can only do so much outside.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:03

What is last being on the water?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:04

It was, but anyway, so when we're our family asks questions and we have conversations, and it always it always gets brought up when we start talking about sentencing. And I kind of wanted to throw this out here because this is really interesting and something that I think people really struggle with. So I took the liberty of doing the research of it, and I wanted to plug it into this live because if you take one thing away, I hope you take a lot of things away from this live. But this is one of those things that I hope makes you understand. Bear with me, I am reading it verbatim. So there are two statutes that explain the 15 to 12 to 9.5 math. So first, Indiana Code 355020 2.2, suspension of a sentence for a felony is the authority that Judge Medlock suspended part of the sentence to probation at all. Quote, except as provided in subsection B or C, the court may suspend any part of a sentence for a felony. So Knoll's convictions were financial crime felonies, not murder or a level one to three felony. So the general rule applies. That's the 15 to 12 step. So second, Indiana Code 35-50-6-3.1 credit time classes and 35-50-6-4 credit time assignments explain the 12 to around 9.5 step. So most felonies' sentences default to Class B credit time. One day of credit for every three days served, roughly 75% of the term actually served with good behavior. The gap between that 75% figure, roughly nine years, and around nine and a half, typically reflects credit for time already served before sentencing, separate from ongoing good time credit. Nobody serves more than the imposed sentence for good behavior. The credit time system only reduces time served, it never adds to it. So hopefully that was a roundabout legal long way to explain where you can be sentenced to X amount of years, but you only have to serve a certain amount.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:23

That's a very big misconception and misunderstanding because people see headlines. It's in Indiana Code where that's And it's again, that is one of those things that it's different for every state.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:35

Yep. But that's just the Indiana Code.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:38

Yeah, that is just pertaining to this case in regard to Jamie Knoll with his sentencing.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:44

When it's tried on a state level, this wasn't a federal level. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:47

And there's totally different.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:48

There were state felony charges. Even though felony people associate with being federal, yes, he broke federal laws, which means the state can charge him with felonies, but it's still the state charging him, not not federal.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:03

For another day in time and live.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:11

It's very confusing. But I what I wanted this what I wanted to say is with this, and it's an opinion, and I say my opinion a lot. Especially when it comes to this. Multi, multiple people in political positions in Clark County, in Jeffersonville, in Clarksville, in Utica, in Charlestown, in Underwood, Indiana. These pla all these little towns, they all have people who want to live outside of their means and are gonna do what they can to continue that. And Jamie is just one that got caught. So after years, decades, decades of the city.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:27

I have a story for you. I have a story for you, and it ties in perfectly with what you said. And I don't even know if my own child knows this one. If she does, my sweet girl. So this is a story. I don't even know if Haley knows this one. I'm gonna throw it all out here. So we talked earlier. If you didn't catch the live, again, this will be on replay on YouTube under the Casewalker Chronicles. We do have a playlist called Particulars. We go live every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at nine. There is a poll also. So you guys need to share, comment, like, subscribe, all the things. But we do want to know what platform you think works best. Where are we going to get the most interaction? And I say that to say in the earlier portion of tonight's episode, we talked about how we were teen parents. So for me personally, we found out our congratulations, you're having a baby story is a little different than most people. So when we were 17.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:31

Oh gosh, you're gonna tell this story.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:33

I wanted to, I wanted to kind of give this because it plays perfectly. This is the perfect ending, I think. So I had been really, really sick. Um, and I had lost a lot of weight. I went to a lot of different hospitals because I kept throwing up. I had had um like multiple weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:49

Yeah. I had like I think sick and then not sick and then sick and then not sick.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:53

I think it had like an ear infection or strep throat or something, and I went to the doctor and they gave me a Z PAC, which oh, this is gonna sound old. At my age, at that point, that was a newer medication, and they thought that I was having an allergic reaction to this medication, and that's why I was vomiting. You had gastro problems after So they were like, Oh, you're allergic to that medicine, it has to get out of your system. That didn't work. I kept throwing up. But anyway, we finally went to an emergency room in southern Indiana. Was that Clark? It was. It was Clark Memorial. It doesn't exist anymore. It's actually, I think, part of North. Well, it was brought. Yeah. Yeah, it was purchased. But, anyways, we were in the emergency room, and my family was so terrified because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. Everyone thought I was like deathly ill, right? This was, I think it was right before Thanksgiving. So probably like Halloween, October-ish time. So we're in the emergency room, and they did some blood work, okay? And my grandmother, she was like four foot something, tiny little lady, loved her to death. My mom was there, my dad was there, my sister. I don't remember where my sister was.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:08

She was there.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:09

No, she wasn't there because we called her on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:11

Oh, but then she called me.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:13

Nick was at home with his mom working on a project.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:16

Yeah, on paper, yeah, for school.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:19

My grandma, they were all in the room with me, you know, like a little emergency room. Like, we're all in this emergency room. And the doctor comes in and he was like, Hey, I I've got great news. We know what's wrong with you. And so my family is all like, like, what? What? You figured it out? What's what's going on? What's going on, right? And the doctor looks at all of us and says, Congratulations, you're pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:47

17.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:49

So I didn't have to break that news to my parents because they were there, right? So my mom and dad exit emergency room.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:56

Actually, I take that back. Were you 16? No. You had just turned 17. We had both just turned 17. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:07

I feel like you should have known that. Yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:09

I'm thinking of the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:11

So my mom and my dad leave and they're out in the hallway, right? And this is the kind of emergency room where we actually had doors, so it was like a private room. Um, and so I'm I'm laying there, I have an IV, they're pushing fluids, and my grandma, little litty bitty lady, loved her dearly. Okay, she comes up to me and she holds my hand by my bedside and she looks at me and she says, Sprout, because that was my nickname. She says, Sprout, it's okay. Everybody does it.

unknown 1:59:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:39

You just got caught. That's all she said. Yep. That is what she said. Like that in truer words have never been spoken.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:55

Everybody does it.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:56

Everybody does it. You just got caught. So, in relation to the documentary that they just pushed out about Jamie Knowle. You just you just got caught.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:10

You just equated millions of dollars worth of fraud. As everybody does it, he just got caught. No, what I did. Everybody, every teenager has sex, they just got caught. That's what you just no, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:28

What I'm trying to say is every small town has some form of something going on.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:34

Oh, yeah. Every everyone does.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:36

And when some people come out and they're like, I had no idea. Yeah. What do you mean you don't have any idea?

SPEAKER_01 2:00:47

Everybody does it.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:49

Every small town in the United States has got something.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:52

Yeah, whether it's uh there's you can't get away from it. It it's everywhere. Um on a much smaller level, as far as the political bureaucracy that's with small towns, um, dealing with our the positions of the jobs that we were in.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:13

There's a political system in every an ecosystem. An ecosystem. Everything in every job.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:20

It's either you either you get into a position where you don't ever have to deal with it, which is possible, which we are trying to.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:28

Or you play the game.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:29

Or you play the game. That's to be honest, nothing surprises me anymore. There's always something in small yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:35

I mean But it's everywhere. I think it's every town. We talked about it a little bit in in regards to New York City with the Taylor Swift thing this weekend. Like there's a huge backlash right now, whether she did or didn't get married or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:48

Hannah's getting real specific and personal here.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:53

I mean, I I'm trying not to throw everything out. I'm trying to be as as politically correct as I can and and trying not to throw anybody under the bus. But it it's what what I'm trying to get at is it's not surprising. Like when I see some of these headlines in the news, what what I think is surprising is when somebody comes out and says, huh?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:15

Yeah. What they're just dumbfounded by it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:19

Like, you know, you go to somebody's Facebook page and the comment section is always I'm I'm there with the popcorn, just for the comment section. Because what do you mean you had no idea?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:31

What do you mean you you thought this was the you had no idea that they would get caught? Yeah. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:37

Like, because I just don't get it. Like that to me is the most shocking thing is that people, what that's what I mean when when I say my grandma saying you just got caught. It's like, and not like, no, not everyone in the world, not every small town is corrupt, not every small town is stealing billions of dollars and using them to this or to that. But when you start to take apart, yeah, like when you start to take apart all of these news stories, you see the patterns, you recognize the patterns, and you start thinking, it's not just this county, it's not just this state. This stuff, these stories are happening everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:20

Everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:20

The difference is the algorithms that the that each platform has created is only giving it's only sending it to the people they want it to send it. Yeah, so when it comes through, that's what's shocking, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:35

And that's a that's a big social media problem that we have right now, which is being understood more. Hello, hello. Check, check, check. Oh, okay. I think we're back now.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:47

I said the same thing. Amy, did you get did you pick my thing? Yeah, I can only imagine. It's time for uh time for ASL. Bring it back to the page. I did watch on TikTok. There was a dog that knows sign language, and I was watching that on TikTok the other day. Oh, the wonder of the world. Sorry, this has been the longest.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:08

I really continue what you were saying if you remember.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:12

Are you for real?

SPEAKER_01 2:04:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:18

Okay, in the chat, was I saying anything of relevance or importance? Like, I don't think I remember. I was just trying to say that it's everywhere. Every place has got it. We're not trying to give you legal advice or shame anyone or be horrible people. We're just trying to have educational commentary, community, sharing a wealth of knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:45

Trying to bring back a little bit of that community that there used to be.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:51

That's what we're using the social media platform for. Where you would talk to your neighbors out, you know, across the fence. Tim the tool man talking to over the back fence. Don't even bring that up with that town. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:09

See, it's so nice. That's what I'm hoping for. Amy, thank you. Share, subscribe, like, follow, all the things because that's what we're trying to get. We created that poll. Um, it's on our Facebook page. We want to know what's the most interactive because we feel like that, the chat, the questions. If you have questions, you know, bring them. Try to get your friends to watch it. Again, we've got the Casewalker Chronicles on podcast season one is done. You can start at episode one and go all the way through. Push that out. We are in the middle of, I've got some things that I'm trying to work through. We have a couple of spin-offs we're working for as far as like um Is that Rihanna?

SPEAKER_01 2:05:52

I saw Rihanna.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:54

I think it was through a shared like so. If you shared that and they joined through that like, we greatly appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:01

This has been or Miss G, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:06:05

We we started we started at the beginning of this episode because we were sitting here twiddling our thumbs, waiting for people to come. And we had uh like we were trying to say somebody's name because you know, when you're on yes, if you need a private investigator, you can go to Money Trail Investigations. I am licensed in the state of Indiana for private investigations.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:27

Um we will be back on Friday.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:30

We are, and do you want to leave them with a teaser on what Fridays? Fridays?

SPEAKER_01 2:06:34

Let's tease them a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:35

So we gave you a couple documentaries that we dropped in here uh tonight. Give me in the chat who's gonna get the gold star. I named a couple of documentaries that you must watch. Anyone got any ideas on what those were? Drop them in the chat. No one's willing to throw them out there.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:09

I got music playing.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:18

That one's a good one. Block joint. Anyway. Is it Rihanna? You're new here. Oh, we have given you a wealth of knowledge, my friend. If you are genuinely new, I strongly encourage you to like all the pages. There's I'm constantly dumping. Um that one was good. No, that was Rihanna.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:51

Thank you for the law. Thank you for the follow.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:53

The one uh with the mom, that was, oh my gosh, calling me out.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:59

Uh thank you for following the Instagram to we love it.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:04

I think that was called Unknown Number, and I think that one's on Netflix, Hannah.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:09

Shake it all the way. Thank you for the follow. We love it. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:14

That one I'm pretty sure was Unknown Number. Um, then, yes, but that one's gonna know the ones we talked about tonight. We talked about uh Hey Ashley. I pulled it up, we sent it in the link. Tarnished the Badge, the Jamie Knoll story. That one was produced by WHAS 11. That was a one-hour documentary chronicling the rise and fall of former Clark County Sheriff Jamie Knoll. In the chat, there is a we did put the link in there. You'll have to, you know, copy and paste it into your browser. It tells you how to watch it.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:50

Um you're gonna tease him yet.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:52

You were watching Twilight? Oh man, I almost clicked that the other night because dad was trying to fall asleep. He falls asleep anyway. Your husband is in law enforcement, he's off Friday night. Oh yes, that would be a great time. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:07

Um maybe he has some questions.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:09

And I will say fire law enforcement here, so and we we are law enforcement supporters 100%. Again, don't ever take what we are saying as like legal advice or yeah, or even or legal advice. We're not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:26

Oh, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:26

See, good. See, like I'm telling you, it's all it's all it's for. We anybody else can help me. I can't remember what else we talked about as far as let me go back to the other.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:35

We were talking about the teaser.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:36

I am, but we're saying um there was another documentary that we talked about. What? Oh, return us. Return to Fox Hollow, New Victims, Darker Secrets. That started streaming today on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Play.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:53

Yeah, if you didn't hear us talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:55

It's a follow-up of the 2025 Emmy nominated docuseries, The Fox Hollow Murders, Playground of a Serial Killer. So you need to watch the Fox Hollow Murders Playground of a Serial Killer first. Follow that up with the return to Fox Hollow. And then we also did the Her Baumeister. We talked about that one.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:15

That's the same one.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:17

Jamie Knoll. My thing keeps going away. My thing's touched.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:21

We're supposed to talk about the teasers for Friday.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:23

I'm going down there. I gotta get all the way down. I'm going all the way down.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:28

It's right there.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:30

I can't see that. Told you I'm blind as a bat. The blind leading the blind out here, y'all. We we want Friday's live to be epic. So we need you in the chat. You need to tell everyone to come on in Friday night. Because you know my favorite actress. Friday night, nine o'clock, TikTok live, we will be discussing. Oh, well, you know, it is Ryan Reynolds. Yeah, that's my man.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:09

But she said actress. Actress. Come on now.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:12

Come on now. Melissa McCarthy is going to be in the Netflix scripted drama John Bene Ramsey.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:25

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:26

Mike Drop. We are going to be discussing that Friday on the live. And then also, if you can even contain yourself, the Tyler Robinson Charlie Kirk preliminary hearing. Yes, my friends, we are going there. Friday's episode. Those are the two things that we're going to be discussing. Now I will be continuing to put some more segments.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:54

We don't need any more segments than that. I can tell you right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:57

Melissa McCarthy, you think that's a whole episode?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:00

John Bene Ramsey?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:02

No.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:03

Charlie Kirk?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:07

You already know.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:08

That's gonna take forever.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:09

So it will be the legal machinery only. So we'll be discussing the probable cause standard DNA.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:15

Oh, it's gonna go way more into that.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:18

Not political.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:20

Oh no, not political.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:21

What happened to my phone?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:22

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:24

We just went crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:25

Oh, I bet the battery died. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:30

Are we still live?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:31

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:32

Could you go to the screen?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:33

What's it pointing at?

SPEAKER_00 2:12:38

Hang on. Go to the screen, sir. My phone just died, I think. So with that. Hang on. Hang on. Do you like that? We could do the whole thing like that. I think that's a neat vibe. Are we feeling the vibe? If you are watching this in a replay, can you imagine what's gonna be going through people's minds right now?

SPEAKER_01 2:13:12

Lazy is gonna finish it out.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:14

I'm gonna finish it out. We're done. This is it. This concludes tonight. I know, right? Epic. All right. So we are done for tonight's episode. We have spent way longer than we thought we were going to. Hi, Jamie. We're going to end it right here. We've teased what Friday night's episode is going to be. We hope you can come back and join us Friday, 9 o'clock, TikTok live. Take the poll. Tell us where you want us to be. We could do YouTube, Insta, Facebook. We'll go where you want us to go. This has been the Casewalker Chronicles, the particulars for tonight. Headlines end, the details begin, our opinion, our analysis. Thanks for walking the cases with us. We'll see you soon. Have a good night.