The Charlie Kirk Hearing, Tyler Robinson & the JonBenét Ramsey Netflix Case | The Particulars Ep. 3

Headlines end. The details begin. In Episode 3 of The Particulars, Lacey and Nic walk this week's cases with a different lens — a private investigator and law student alongside a former federal agent.

Legal Minute: What Does Probable Cause Actually Mean? Utah's Fourth District Court closed out a five-day preliminary hearing this week for Tyler Robinson, the 23-year-old accused of fatally shooting Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University in September 2025. He's charged with aggravated murder and six additional counts; prosecutors say they'll likely seek the death penalty. Robinson has not entered a plea. This week wasn't a trial — a preliminary hearing exists to answer one question: is there probable cause to send a defendant to trial at all? We walk the legal ladder that gets you there: reasonable suspicion (Terry v. Ohio, 1968), probable cause (the Utah bindover standard, grounded in Utah Constitution Article 1, Section 12 and State v. Virgin), and beyond a reasonable doubt, the only standard that can actually convict (In re Winship, 1970). Prosecutors presented DNA evidence tying Robinson to the rifle and items recovered at the scene, plus a recorded interview in which a witness said Robinson admitted to the shooting. The defense challenged the reliability of a separate bullet-fragment comparison, which an ATF examiner testified was inconclusive. No ruling yet — Judge Tony Graf has set four hours of further oral argument, with a decision expected by September 1.

Case Update: JonBenét Ramsey & the Netflix Deal. A new eight-episode scripted limited series, The Murder of JonBenét Ramsey, starring Melissa McCarthy and Clive Owen, was originally greenlit at Paramount+ in 2024 and finished filming in January 2025 — then shelved after Paramount's merger and change in ownership. Reporting ties the decision to a $750 million defamation lawsuit JonBenét's brother Burke filed against CBS over a 2016 docuseries that theorized his involvement; that lawsuit settled on confidential terms years ago. Netflix acquired the series on July 1, with a release expected around the 30th anniversary of the killing. JonBenét Ramsey was 6 when she was found dead in her family's Boulder, Colorado home the morning after Christmas in 1996; the case remains legally unsolved. Her mother, Patsy Ramsey, was a suspect for years before being cleared by DNA evidence in 2008 — two years after her own death.

Case Update: Indiana's New Animal Cruelty Law (HEA 1165). Effective July 1, House Enrolled Act 1165 didn't blanket-reclassify animal cruelty as a felony — it adds specific new felony triggers under Indiana Code 35-46-3-7 and 35-46-3-12, including a first-of-its-kind hoarding provision for 10 or more animals kept in harmful conditions. The law is already being used in Hamilton County: Perina James, 36, has been charged with torturing/mutilating a vertebrate animal and cruelty to an animal after two dogs died in a hot vehicle outside a restaurant on July 3, with temperatures over 90 degrees. The same law adds a Good Samaritan provision protecting anyone who breaks into a locked hot car to rescue a distressed animal from civil liability.

Case Update: Neil the Seal. Tasmania's favorite destructive celebrity — a roughly 2,200-pound southern elephant seal — made international news again this week, camping out at Seven Mile Beach, blocking roads, and scratching himself against traffic bollards. Wildlife officials asked the public to stay at least 20 meters away, citing the 2022 case of Freya the walrus in Norway, euthanized after becoming habituated to crowds. As of this week, reports suggest Neil may have already moved on, his molt complete.

OUR OPINION. OUR ANALYSIS. NOT LEGAL ADVICE. Everything here is our commentary and opinion, based on the public record — not legal advice, and not an active investigation. Accused/alleged throughout; charged is not convicted; presumption of innocence applies, every time.

⚖️ New episodes Monday / Wednesday / Friday, 9 PM ET — live on TikTok, replay on YouTube.

Chapters
 0:00 Intro & Recap
 7:56 Tyler Robinson / Charlie Kirk Preliminary Hearing
 20:48 JonBenét Ramsey & the Netflix Deal
 33:23 Indiana's New Animal Cruelty Law
 45:59 Neil the Seal
 51:34 Monday Tease & Wrap-Up

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Oh, okay. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and get started. Uh welcome back to the particulars. Headlines end, details begin. It is Friday, July 10th, 2026. We're live, and tonight we're walking four things, including probable cause, what does it actually mean? And the biggest case I think we've ever covered on the show. We're also going to be talking about one of my favorite TikTok trends currently. Neil the Seal.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Neil the Seal.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

He's the best thing about TikTok right now. I'm just gonna put that out there because in a world full of everything, at least we have Neil, right? That's we're at um on Wednesday, we closed out talking about the one, the only Jamie Knoll, and the documentary that WHAS 11 produced called Tarnish the Badge, uh, which was a case that took place here in Indiana, which, you know, just a couple counties away from us. But tonight we're gonna be leaving the state. So luckily, we don't have to stay long. Uh, the same theme of accountability follows us the whole way. Um, we're really excited to get started. I'm hoping to make this short and sweet, and I say that every single live.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

We try.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

But just so you do know, we do have all of our replays on YouTube. So you are able to, you know, if you miss it, I don't know why you would miss it because what else are you doing Friday at nine o'clock at night besides hanging out with the particulars? Hello, Melinda, hello, Keisha, oh Hayley. So, like I said, if you're in here long enough to hear your name, you have to share, you have to hit that heart, you have to like it, you have to try to enjoy it, Lauren.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

And token.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Token.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Or taken. Taken. Taken by side. That's that's that's neat. That's nice.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

That's neat. I like that. Hello, hello. We are the particulars. This is our Friday night live. We're gonna.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

What is this? This is our opinion.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yes, our opinion, our analysis, not legal legal advice. Okay, so let's get into it. Okay, we want to go ahead first of all, and for those of you that were here Monday night, Wednesday night, and you came back a third night, I'm kind of surprised because, like I said, I personally, I personally love doing this, but we're glad that you're here and we want interaction in the chat. So we want your questions, we want your feedback, we want to know your thoughts because we talk to each other all day. It's nice to get somebody else's take on it. That was kind of the whole thing with this pod. Well, we have a podcast, obviously, the Case Walker Chronicles, and this is our live version because people wanted more, and we can't do quick enough turnarounds for our podcast episodes. So we're coming live every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We did put out a poll, so we are asking, do you like TikTok? TikTok Live? Is that where we are going to make the particulars home?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

We could also go to YouTube Live.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

We got Instagram live, uh and then, you know. I don't know. I haven't seen it. I don't think Hannah's lovely. I haven't seen her yet. I haven't seen her. Hello, Sierra Ducky Jones. Goodbye. Hello, Lavender. I know, it's rude. She won't she won't come on very often. She may be working. What can I say?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

All right. So tonight, Nick already put it up on the screen temporarily. I don't know if you guys caught the the clip, the graphic for tonight's episode. We are starting with the curve hearing. And I will go ahead and put a foreclosure out there. Or not foreclosure.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Disclosure.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Disclosure out there. There we go. The disclosure is it's not going to be political because she does. Yes. I mean, I I don't know. I I was here a minute early for tonight. I was in my chair a minute early.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

I was down here like two hours prior prepping everything, getting everything ready in the studio, making sure all the sound's good and all the graphics are good.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

I mean, do you want a medal?

SPEAKER_01 4:42

No.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

An award, a major award.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

My award is you.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

I know. Aw, that was sweet. God love. Beisty Rose.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

So we're gonna talk about the current preliminary hearing for Tyler Robinson. Suspected and alleged killer of Charlie Kirk.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Alleged.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah. Let me give me just a second. I'm gonna turn the music down.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

I can't hear anything.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Just a little bit. I can hear it in my headphones. I'm monitoring everything. So let me turn it down just a bit.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Haley.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

It's always a good time.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Don't throw up.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

That's not good. Okay, we turned it down a little bit. It's nice and quiet. So we will get back too quiet. Oh, get out of here. I don't want you. Sorry. Not you. I love you.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

I know. Isn't he sweet though? He's so sweet. Hey, Deswegen. Alright. You're you're just in time.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

We just started.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

I hope nobody comes in.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

It's only been 20 minutes of live streaming.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Trinity. Hello. Yes. So we're we'll we're gonna try to be really quick. I say that. I say that every time. We're never quick. I'm very long-winded. Um, so we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna kick it off with Charlie Kirk for tonight, okay? So, like I already said, we're not giving you legal advice, we're giving you our opinion and our analysis. And in this situation, we're not gonna give you the political side of this.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

No, no, no politics in this.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

It's just basically case information, and it's not like okay, which, you know, silly goose, forever. Hello. We're we're trying not to do like a I don't know. I think what was the case that we were talking about the other day? There was a case and Depp.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Was it Depp Heard?

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Yeah, that we were we yeah. So the the the Johnny Depp Amber Heard case, with that, so many people became YouTube famous because they chose. Well, yeah, I'm that's really what it came down to. Yeah, I agree with that. But what they did was they would, you know, put their screen share up and they would give their interpretation throughout the entire case. Which we could do, but that's not we're doing that. We're not gonna do that with Charlie Kirk because, like I said, we're gonna there's a couple of key things I want to talk about with it. Um in the sphere of we got a lot to get through. I'm going, I'm going, I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

I know, I gotta keep her on task, guys.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Okay, so where where you want to go? You want to right into it. You start, and then I'll take the next one.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

All right, so we're gonna go right into the legal standard, what Lacey is studying, and my investigative record and things like that. So with the first topic, we're talking about Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing. Tyler Robinson is 23. He's accused of fatally shooting conservative I've got a fly in here. I'm so sorry, conservative activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University on September 10th of 2025. He's charged with aggravated murder, a capital first-degree felony, discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury, a first-degree felony, two counts of obstruction of justice, second-degree second degree felony, struggling. Two counts of tampering with a witness, a third-degree felony, and uh committing a violent offense in the presence of a child, a class A misdemeanor.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

We're just yeah, no comment.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

We put it up on the wall and see what sticks. Prosecutors have said they will likely seek the death penalty. Robinson turned himself in the day after the shooting and has not entered a plea.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Utah's fourth district court held a five-day preliminary hearing this week, which concluded today, Friday, July 10th. Both sides have rested. Prosecutors presented DNA evidence, surveillance footage, and testimony from investigators. DNA consistent with Robinson was found on the rifle. A towel and a screwdriver recovered at the scene. Confirmed today under cross-examination by the ATF's DNA section chief, who also testified Robinson's DNA was on the rifle itself. His former roommate and romantic partner, Lance Twiggs, was a DNA match on the same items. A redacted recorded interview with Twiggs was played in court Thursday. In it, Twiggs told investigators Robinson said he wished he hadn't done it. Robinson's defense has not commented on guilt or innocence. Their fight through the week included contesting a targeting enhancement that argues Robinson selected Kirk for his political and religious views, and unsuccessful attempts to close the hearing to the public and delay proceedings entirely.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

So here's the update that actually matters for tonight. There's no ruling yet. Judge Tony Graff has not decided whether the case is bound over for trial. Closing arguments happen today.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Deputy Utah County Attorney Chad, I think his name's Grenader. Grenader.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Like Grenadier? Like the I think it's grenadier.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah. He told the court, quote, the evidence is overwhelming. It's devastating, end quote. Citing DNA tests and what prosecutors call Robinson Robinson's apparent confession. The defense spent today specifically attacking the DNA reliability through attorney Michael Burke. Worth being precise here, because it matters. DNA presence on the rifle itself is confirmed. ATF forensic biologist Caitlin Oliver testified to that under oath and cross-examination. Though she also acknowledged DNA can transfer between services. Separately, ATF examiner Samantha Carner testified that her comparison of a budget f or a bullet fragment.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Budget?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, a bullet fragment. I was thinking about the office. Or no, sorry, Chit.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Huh didn't work all.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

You know who Chit is.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

I know Chit, but what's that about to do with the budget? Charlie Kirk.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Testified that her comparison of a bullet fragment to the rifle's markings came back inconclusive. Telling the court, quote, saying anything but inconclusive was inappropriate. Those are two different tests measuring two different things. And the defense is leaning on the second one. The court also played an enhanced version of surveillance footage today showing a figure the prosecutors say is Robinson on the rooftop. Kirk's widow and mother were visibly emotional watching it. After court, Kirk's family released the statement, calling the hearing an important step forward in the pursuit of justice. And Erica Kirk filed asking Graf to issue his ruling by September 1st. That's just what? Four weeks away? Five weeks away?

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Because we're I mean, we're going to be able to do that. Halfway through, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

The date he's already set for four hours of further oral argument, after which he's expected to rule. As of tonight, the honest answer is the hearing is over, but the probable cause decision itself is still roughly seven weeks away. So seven weeks.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Here's the piece that gets lost in coverage like this. This week is not a trial. It's not about guilt. The prelimin the preliminary hearing exists to answer one question. Is there probable cause to make Robinson stand trial at all? Alright, so this is where it's gonna get a little interesting, okay? So bear with me. So there is a ladder in terms of how when you're establishing probable cause. So the easiest way is we're gonna put this into a little bit of a legal aspect, and most people probably don't know this, but I find this very interesting. So there we go. We have the police stop, and then we kind of progress from there is the easiest way to kind of create the police stop.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Was case law of Terry versus Ohio, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:00

But we're gonna get there. I'm just trying to get people to the we have like the lowest level and it builds upon that. So the lowest is reasonable suspicion. Nick hit on this. The standard that lets an officer stop and briefly detain someone established in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 in 1968. One step up is probable cause. The standard for arrest warrants, search warrants, and in Utah, the bindover decision at a preliminary hearing grounded in the Fourth Amendment, and specifically here, Utah Constitution, Article 1, Section 12, and Utah Rule of Criminal Procedures 7B. Utah's Supreme Court has defined that bind over tests directly, the prosecution must produce evidence sufficient to support a reasonable belief that the defendant committed the charged crime. State v. Version 2006, UT29, paragraph 17. At this stage, the judge views all evidence in the light most favorable to the prosecution and does not weigh witness credibility. That's reserved for a jury at trial. State v. I'm gonna get I'm guessing that one's Mahan? Mahan 2013 UT37. The highest standard and the only one that can actually convict someone is anybody got it in the chat? Because everybody likes to throw this one out. Beyond a reasonable doubt, which is in RE windship 397, US 358, 1970.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

It's the case law of windship.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Correct. So when we go all the way back, because Nick kind of hit on that, Terry v Ohio, it is you just have to have reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred or is going to occur. So in theory or occurring. Yes. And that's where a lot of your law enforcement gets the, you know, we can pull you over and detain you. And at that point, say there is something in plain view, then that gives us probable cause.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

But that falls under the plain view doctrine.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Correct. And we're not going there tonight. Just keep that in mind that we've talked about that in some of our well, I think we talked about it in a couple episodes in season one. And a lot of times people want to throw, you know, oh, well, they arrested the guy. He's guilty.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

I mean, that's not how it works.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

That's so sick.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Um, but that's the way public, you know, the public media. Yeah, it's played that way. And it, you know, the jury of your peers kind of thing, the public opinion is already ruled one way or the other. That's where we get the biggest issue, I personally think, is people are forgetting that you are innocent until proven guilty.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

And when you get to trial, that's when the evidence needs to be presented to for and it's on the burden of the state or the country. It's on the burden of the prosecution to present the evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Their case, the charges, and so on. So from an investigative standpoint and the angle, you know, everything's being presented in an from an investigator's standpoint, which ultimately we want to believe is correct. However, the information that's being provided, especially with the ATF examiner, at how the bullet fragments that were found and the the 30 caliber jacket, they're inconclusive to coming from the rifle that was discovered by law enforcement. And there's a there's a lot of so there's a lot of issues here um that are happening. And I know people want to believe, oh, this is the guy, you know, there's no way that it's anybody else because this is what investigators are saying. But I will say that I watched some of the trial today and and I watched some snippets of what the ATF analyst said about the bullet fragments, and she prominently claimed that their reports were inconclusive.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Listen, I'm I'm I'm gonna give my opinion a little bit, but not a lot. Because because it it's very hard to watch any of this going on. Um, I'm I'm really trying. Like, I'll be honest, when I was slating out tonight's episode, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

We knew we were talking about Tyler Robbins' I didn't want to, I didn't want to talk about this case at all, but because because it's a it's a travesty in the justice system, because anything that's publicized that has to do with the justice system is honestly wrong. Um, and I know that these things should be public, however, it's the way that it's swayed publicly.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Well, because public opinion is such a big thing right now, like that's the thing. And we're I'm not gonna get on my soapbox tonight about that because maybe at one point I will talk about something that is going on in Indiana in regards to appeals, and I might get on that, and I can tell you that if I cover that at all, my friends, I will probably I will die on that hill because I I that one I'm salty about that. And I anyway.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Oh my gosh, we got 4,000 likes. That's amazing. Thank you all.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

What?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

So we're just gonna we're just going over and kind of briefing the what's going on with this. I'm not gonna get too deep in the woods in this because this is a huge, right, right, huge case right now.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

What's going on right now with this case? I I we had to cover it, especially, you know, given where it is. Hello, Sunflower. Given where this case stands today at the close of business on Friday, I felt like we had to at least talk about it and and put it out there because looking back, you know, because we again, like I said, we are putting all of these replays and a playlist on Casewalker Chronicles YouTube. So if you miss the live, you can always catch it. And I wanted to have that that snippet of history so when I look back, I can remember what was covered this week. Yeah. In in cases.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

We are gonna go to a place I am the highest profile case in the country.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

I'm so excited about this one.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

I we both have a I mean, we both kind of agree of what we think.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

What's interesting about this, too.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I'm I'm excited for this because I know this is just somebody playing a whole nother angle for a money grab.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

I don't know if you know this this.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

I probably not.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

You don't know this, and most people don't, and that's why I was like, listen.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

This is a money grab. This is all this is.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

No, leave it. Listen, listen. We we had so 4th of July weekend, we went out on the boat, our in-laws have a boat, we have a boat, so we did the boat thing, and this got brought up, not this specifically, but Jean Bonet, because it's it's one of the biggest known cases in the United States. But let's get right into that because it's I I I don't know if I have okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Do you wanna do you wanna talk about this or do you want to I'll okay, I'll talk, I'll go over the okay meat and potatoes here. All right, go ahead. Jean Bonet Ramsey was six years old when she was found dead in. Her basement of her family's Boulder, Colorado home in the morning after Christmas in 1996. Everybody know. I mean, we're okay. I'm dating ourselves. We were born in the 80s, and this is 1996. We were young, but old enough to be able to watch TV and watch the news. Do you remember it in the magazines? Oh, I remember tabloids. Oh, it was crazy. It was crazy. The case remains legally unsolved and officially open. Her mother, Patsy Ramsey, was a suspect for years and was only cleared through DNA evidence in 2008.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Say that one more time.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

She was clear only cleared in 2008.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

2008.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Twelve years later.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Long time. Which.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And that was only two years after her own death.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Yeah. So when she died.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

She died in 2006.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

And I think let's pause there. I know you have some more that you want to say there, but I am going to throw this one little snippet in there because in my head, if we take out our uh take out all theories behind it. If you just look at the fact that the mother passed away without having any specific closure, or in my head, there was no closure to that case. So she passed away not ever having that closure.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Uh only lived 10 years after. She only lived 10 years after the death of her daughter.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

We're gonna put a pin in that, and I'm gonna let you get back to I'm not gonna interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Okay, so there's a new eighth episode scripted limited series, The Murder of John Bonnet Ramsey, starring Melissa McCarthy, one of the favorite actors of Lacey, and Clive Owen, who I like. I like Clive Owen as an actor, as John Ramsey.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Now the plot's gonna thicken.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

It was originally Greenlit by or at Paramount Plus in 2024 and finished filming in January of 2025.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Read that one more time.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

It was originally Greenlit at Paramount Plus in 2024 and finished filming in January of 2025. After Paramount's merger.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

I tell you, listen to this. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Let me make sure uh the sound's working. Can you hear us? Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Oh, Sunflower's back!

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Oh, awesome. Yep, okay. Perfect. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

I'm telling you, we got some junk equipment, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Anyways, we're going back to thermount merge with Sky. Did you wait? They got new leadership.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Wait a minute. Did you hear, everyone in here, did you hear the snippet where he said Yes, they caught all that. But I need the people to tell me that they heard that. So did you hear where Nick said that they merged with uh with Sky Dance? Did we get that far? Gimme gimme some yeses.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Hi, Aunt Missy. Love you. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Okay. Well, we're gonna continue there. You can pick right up there.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

So the new leadership shelved it. Reporting points to legal exposure, tied it to a $750 or $750 million defamation lawsuit. Uh John Bene's brother, Burke, who had filed against CBS over the 2026 docuseries, theorizing his involvement. Thank you, Mm-Mesy. Love you. That lawsuit was settled on confidential terms, and Netflix acquired the series just last a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

July 1.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, a couple of years. Uh timed toward the 30th anniversary of the killing.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

There is no exact one.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

We don't have a premiere date for the John Bonet Netflix.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Heat wave.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

But um it's gonna be exciting because I have a pretty good feeling there's gonna be a lot of information that comes out um now that this is the first big documented series of John Bonet after her mother's death. Okay, I'm I'm just gonna Burke's still alive.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

I'm just gonna cut straight to the chase here. Here we go. No, since you got to read the snippet and you stole my thunder there, I'm going to throw this out. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Because to me, while I love Melissa McCarthy, do not say that the casting of this is the whole real thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

No, it's pretty good. The casting is great, but no, the real thing, the real meat and potatoes of this is that a settled defamation suit over a documentary theory shaped a corporate decision on an unrelated dramatization nearly a decade later.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

So now most people probably don't know the lengths that I go to when I am doing anything.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Even we know there's a ton of legal that goes into that. A ton.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

But what I'm saying is the they they they filmed it.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

They did film.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

They wrapped filming, and then they were like, even though, because okay, let's classify that.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

They had to screen it and but wait. You know.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

So here's the thing that I want to discuss really quickly, and I am gonna be really quick about this. So a lot of people don't know the difference between like a doc you what was that? What was it the where they said documentary? Did anybody else anybody else is a true crime? They know what I'm talking about because there was there was someone. Hello, Ashley. They called it a documentary, and and after that, wait, it caught me by like what what did they just say? A documentary.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I think it was a I think it was a British thing that we were.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

And then from then on, I I struggled to say documentary.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah, she even said it on a podcast that we were recording, and I had to edit all of it out.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Redo that he was like, No, you we're not put we're not publishing that because it was documentary, but anyways, sorry, I digress. So it was the there is a difference between like a documentary and a scripted series, yeah. And in terms of the legality behind some of that, so if we think of like when you're writing a book, an autobiography or a biography, and then we have you know, a documentary is supposed to be, in theory, again, please listen. When we did our disclaimer at the beginning, I'll say it again. This is our analysis, our opinion, not legal advice. But in theory, the documentary is supposed to be based more on facts.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Hey Matt.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Where a I know who that is, where the scripted series is not necessarily based on facts.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Okay. That I'm just gonna throw that out there because this but it's a it's a common thing now that documentaries are opinion-based.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Well, yeah, but that's what I'm saying. So, like when we look at this and we say, okay, well, who was it? Paramount? I think it was Paramount. Paramount Plus. Initially, initially it was them, and they were like, wait, I So it was shelves, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:11

And everybody knows. Uh I don't know if you know, but I know.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

What do I not know?

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Netflix. Netflix bought Paramount. No, yeah, like five months, four months ago, something like that. Yeah, they own it.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Does Netflix own the world?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Uh it's crazy, but yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

But you know, they just bought also okay, wait a minute. So let me throw this out there because maybe it's just me, and I'm gonna give you a little tipster, okay? So the yeah, follow the money. Is that what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Netflix picked up this series, and I was gonna give the people uh uh us some money. I know, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Anyways, we're and you know what? I was really hoping that Hannah would be on here for this one, but she hopped on for a minute, didn't you? I don't think that was her.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Hannah has a little Oh no, it wasn't her, I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

I don't know. If you're on here and you've stayed this far, give it a share, give it a like, tell the people they're missing out. What else? Hello, bunny, be sweet, and they're gonna they're gone.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

So just so you guys know what we do when we're waiting, when we start our live, we will, when people come on, like because you know when people are scrolling TikTok in the the for you or the live section, Kylie, Kaylee, Sean, McClure. So when we start the live and there's no one in here and it starts feeding us all these people, we try to be the first one to say the name of somebody that joined the live.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

And so they join and then they get right back off because they're just scrolling. But, anyways, that's what we do if we shout out a name. Aslan!

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Hey Aslan. Hey, I I I think I adjusted the music a little bit. Can you all hear it? Is it too loud or do I need to turn it down?

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Sylvia, hello. Hannah's with you. Okay, good. You guys are just in time. Okay, so we are gonna transition.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

So the music's quiet. Is it too quiet? I'll just leave it there. It's fine.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

We don't need music. I just like the I like the turn it up, Nick.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

I love Aunt Miss.

SPEAKER_03 32:24

Cat. Hello, cat Raven, Robin. By the way, if you guys are just catching this and you're new to our live, because we have one every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, my chair is from Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Oh, yeah. Everything in here is from Amazon. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 32:41

It's got a little squeaky to it. So, anyways, um, alright. This one's exciting. You better hold on to your hat, okay?

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Hang on, let me let me throw up the graphic. One more time.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Oh, we got gnats too.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

I know, they were bugging me earlier.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

So the new cruelty, Jaclyn.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

The new cruelty law.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

I'm winning.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I know you are.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

I'm winning this. It's a lace, and I am winning. Rat Race. That was a great movie, in case anybody was wondering. Vocal stems. Okay. I can't read that one. Sorry, I don't know that name. All right, here we go. I got glasses, but I can't see. Effective July 1 of 2026. Public Law 80, 2026, House Enrolled Act 1165. Changed how prosecutors can charge severe animal abuse in Indiana. Here's the correction worth making. So most local coverage is oversimplifying this. It is not a blanket reclassification of animal cruelty from a misdemeanor to a felony. Okay, it adds specific new felony triggers. Under Indiana Code 3546-3-7, abandonment and neglect becomes a level six felony if there's a prior unrelated conviction. If the offense was committed in the presence of a minor, if it results in serious harm or death to the animal, or this is the new, this is the new one, okay? So hoarding specific peace. If someone has 10 or more animals in their custody under inadequate food, water, shelter, or otherwise harmful conditions, under Indiana Code 35-46-3-12, abuse becomes a level six felony under those same kinds of triggers. Plus, if it's committed with intent to threaten or coerce a family or household member, and torture or mutilation under 35-46-3-12C was already an automatic an automatic level six felony. No prior conviction needed at all. So the first offense or not, the felony range is six months to two and a half, uh, two and a half years, up to ten thousand dollar fine. The same law adds a separate Good Samaritan provision. If you break into a locked hot vehicle to rescue a distressed animal, you're protected from civil liability for the damage to the car. So this law is already being used in Cicero, Indiana.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

35-year-old Parina James of Indianapolis has been charged after two dogs, a Rottwaller and a Golden Doodle, died in a hot vehicle outside a restaurant on July 3rd. Court documents put the dogs in that vehicle for close to two hours. And I don't remember, or I don't know if you all remember, Friday, July 3rd. We were out on the boat.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

It was hot as hell in Indiana.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

It was 90 plus degrees.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Okay? 90 plus degrees.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Sorry, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

The Rottweiler was pronounced dead at the scene. The golden doodle died after the intake.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Yeah, they transported it and it died after. Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

The Hamilton County prosecutor's office has charged James with two counts of torturing and mutilating a vertebrate animal and two counts of cruelty to an animal. Yep. James told investigators she believed the dogs may have somehow changed the car's climate control themselves.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Like Jinxie Pooh over there taking a shit in the toilet. Anyways, investigators say that inconsistent it's inconsistent with how vehicles actually operate. And Hamilton County prosecutor Joshua Coke. Was that Coker?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Spoke directly to why this case matters for the new law, saying, quote, one second. TikTok's being dumb. I gotta make sure I'm not a robot and I'm not a boss. Oh, you failed it. Oh my god, how did I fail that? I put it right in there. The little puzzle piece. What is going on? Okay, look at that. Boom. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Third time's a charm.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

TikTok, you gotta love it. You know what I'm saying? Anyways, going back to that. Where was I?

SPEAKER_02 37:12

The law just changed.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yeah, Joshua Coker, the Hamilton County prosecutor, spoke directly to why that matters. The new law saying, quote, the law has just changed for the neglect of an animal. It's only a misdemeanor. And it's a good thing that it got elevated.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

James has an initial court hearing July or July 6th.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

I don't have the I don't have the um the outcome as of when we did all of this, but I can tell you I have had a lot of animals, and now we have little demi wee's over here in her bed, okay?

SPEAKER_01 37:49

I can I can show her because I gotta get up anyway.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

We're gonna we're gonna show you demi wheeze. And I can tell you that I have she is a really smart dog, but she has never, not once, changed any control settings in the car. Maybe that's a new thing, maybe it has to be a gold golden doodle thing or whatever, but I'm sorry that about of like all the I'm sorry, I I can't with with the sweet, I know, sweet, my sweetwee's they love demi. Everybody loves Demi. I guess I mean I'm sorry. I thought that was just I read that and I mean I and anyways, I'm I could get on about this, but I'm not going to. I'm just gonna say you know my phone's probably gonna die because I live that I don't have the newest phone like Nick, and why we use my phone, I don't know. But anyway, here we are. So let me just go ahead and because we have some other people and we are in the state of Indiana, and this law just changed July 1, so I am gonna go ahead and read this little snippet for you. And some of this we do word for word because again, our opinion, our analysis, we're not giving you legal advice. Don't come at me, okay? So Indiana Code 35-46-3-7B, abandonment or neglect of a vertebrate animal, which I'm sorry, I didn't realize we had like different classifications when I read that.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Because like a vertebrate animal, like a uh say you have a snake, wouldn't matter. No, it has a vertebrae, it has bones. No, like a bug. People have like beetles as pets and what about spiders? Those are invertebrates. Yeah, spiders invertebrates. Something that has a spine.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

I'm sorry, I I don't know. Your glasses are crooked. Could you look at it? They're always crooked. Could you click them over to the other side?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

I don't know what you want. 10,000 likes, that's amazing. Thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

I can't with you.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

What?

SPEAKER_02 40:03

You got a lopsided head.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

There's a better.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Yes, it's better. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

It's still a one ear sits lower than the other. Thank you, Jess. My ears are crooked.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

I'm serious. What really works. People pissed me off because thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

People.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

That's all we gotta say. I it's just people. That's why we don't leave our house, okay? But you know what? In all seriousness, okay, this is a real case going on right now. And I I think what's what really kind of puts me in a mood, yeah, is that I mean But it's it's good, it's good that we're changing the laws. Correct. And I think that like I hate to say that it's bad. I mean, it's good timing, bad timing. I mean, it's bad timing for you know them.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

What's the point of you having a pet if you're not gonna take care of it? You have the pet for an emotional support. That's it, it's there for you.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

I got mine for anxiety because I have anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

That's emotion, yeah. That's psychological.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

But I gave my dog anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Yeah, you did. Yeah, so and jealousy.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

No, she's not jealous.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

But no, look at it, look at it as a human, okay? It's common. I mean, these common sense laws where they say, oh, this is common sense law.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Well, clearly it's not.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Look, don't be that person. If you are not responsible, don't get a dog. Yeah, don't get a cat, don't get an animal.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Because I and I'm just gonna say it because we're on TikTok, and I I'm on TikTok a lot. Like, I have like an a nocturnal, you know, um schedule. I'm I'm up all night, like two or three o'clock. I'm chronic insomnia, so somehow I ended up on the TikTok, like my for you page is just animal rescued. Yeah, and I don't know how I got on this, but it's like, why? Why do you have a dog? Like, uh last night I there was like video after video of where people were like just abandoning their pet. Don't even get them. Like, that's what I'm saying, okay? I mean, if you don't want them, don't get them. Don't desert them, don't leave them in your car. Like, just be a good person. That's all I gotta say.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

It seems like being a good person is so hard to do now because they need to be talked about.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

And I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try not to crash out. That's right. Get out and lift shit is badass. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Hello, Ruby.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

So Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Also, no, I what I was just gonna say is that we do the whole reason we do our Monday, Wednesday, Friday, the particulars live stream. And we do need, we need everybody that's in the chat right now to give us your feedback because I pushed out a graphic asking for a poll answer, and I've had two responses, one of which was my husband sitting in that chair.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

This guy.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

So that doesn't count. Thanks. Bless his heart. He will do if I say, Hey, babe, get on there and share all of my stuff. He's on there sharing all my stuff. That's why I love I love him. He's he's my biggest supporter. But, anyways, we have the Case Walker Chronicles, and it is a podcast where we do deep dive from the record, the docket, uh, the chronological case summaries, the timelines. We do all of that on our podcast, and it is very in-depth, and it takes me a lot of time and days and hours and days and hours and days and you know, all we love you all, Aunt Miss, Ant Star. But I can't turn podcasts around that fast. So we wanted to do, we kept, you know, people kept telling us hey, we love your all's. Personalities, the dynamic, we love the information, but we want it more often. So we thought, okay, we're gonna just cover little snippets of what's in the news right now. And we're gonna throw it out as quick as we can.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Some of it's stuff we've talked about today between ourselves that we think, oh, let's let's mention that because it's important to us, it might be important to someone else.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

And and we try to offer as quick of an analysis, like um sorry, I'm not a quick person, I'm I'm long-winded. But we try to we try to get it out there and give a little bit of our feedback so you guys have that to kind of go off of and let you know what's going on because I'm not going to put something out just because I'm affiliated with a news company. Like I'm uh that's that's all that's how I'm gonna address that. But, anyways, um just the facts, but in a in a quicker way. And I will say, Nick's page, we can be a little more controversial.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yes, yeah, I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Yeah, they can come at him and just not don't come at me, don't come at me.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Um button.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

This is my favorite part. It was my favorite part.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

So I'm gonna be real with y'all. I sat, I don't know if that was today. It was was it today? It was today because I was doing my hair. Yeah, Lacey was working on her hair, not her hair, but a new hair.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

Yes, I'll have new hair Monday night. But oh god, the Parvo.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Oh, what? With the Green Tree Mall or something.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Yes, they have a uh Puppy Green shit.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Oh gosh. No, we're not talking about that. Nope, nope.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

We're moving on to the if you want no. If you want us to talk about that, y'all have to like, share, follow, all the things, and come back Monday night.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

And if everybody was a segment, we're talking about Neil the Seal. I sat, I did my I think I did my workout, and I came upstairs, and Lacey was working on her hair, and then I was looking at my social media, and then all of a sudden, Lacey was talking about this the other day, and I swear to god, these phones are always listening. These phones listen, okay? These phones, these phones right here, yes, they listen to everything that is being said. I'm telling you right now, because uh scrolling through my feed, I see Neil the seal. And I'm like, are you kidding me? And this is huge right now.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Like, this is a seal.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

I just leave Neil alone. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Neil is a five-year-old, roughly 2,200-pound southern elephant seal who returns to Tasmania, which, if you don't know where that is, that's in Australia, twice a year to molt their skin. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

I didn't even know that they did that. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

And Hello Manda Panda Boo. This time he's been camped out at Seven Mile Beach. Well, of course, everybody's got phones and everybody's got social media, so what happens? Boom. He's made an he's made international news again for the property damage he's caused. Using traffic ballards and cones to scratch himself, and he's like breaking this stuff, you know, like concrete. He's been blocking roads.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Hello, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Neil is a quita, okay?

unknown 47:32

He's a quota.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

A quota sore. Yes. Neil is a quota. I guess he's male. Neil, who knows? Local officials have gone as far as closing roads around him. And Tasmanian wildlife officials have specifically asked the public to stay at least 20 meters away. That's 60 feet. Okay. Or as a local government put it, about six nails away. He's a big he's a big seal. And you gotta hear this because they're Australian, and I love Australian accent. I really do.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

Do it, please. I can't do it. Please do it. I'm gonna stop laughing. I'm gonna stop.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Oh my gosh, I don't I don't think I can.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

I'll be quiet.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

I don't even know.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

I six nails away.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

I couldn't do it. Stay six nails away. Mate. He's friendly looking, but capable of serious injury. I can't do it. I can't. It's bad. It's terrible. There there's real precedent for why that matters. A walrus in Norway named Freya was euthanized in 2022 because it habituated to the crowds and was becoming a public safety.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I I love Neil, and I probably would go up and try to, but I'm not gonna put my kid up there.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Yeah, don't.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

So they ended up having it. Free it had to be euthanized.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

But what what is sensational? Something that's gonna go viral on mainstream.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Who in the world, who thought that this this elephant seal was gonna be, he has a TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

But once it does, you know what people do? They try to exploit it. So they try to get a kid walking up to it and it doing something.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

I mean I internet sensation, right? Because they want their five minutes of fame. But I'm thinking in my.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

That's good. Reports have said as of yesterday that he might have already moved out of the area and being done from his molt. And they wouldn't leave him alone.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

No, they have not yet. That I think he well, okay, let's say this. According to like news right now, they say he moved on.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

Yeah. Now we have to go off of that.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

I don't know. I'm hoping it's not confirmed.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Because it's an animal and I'm an animal lover. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

An amino lover.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Remember?

SPEAKER_03 50:18

Oh, don't start.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Because I'm an animal lover, I would want to believe that he has finally molted and moved on to the sea. Because that's what they do. They use the the rough paint, the rough structure of dry land to molt.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

If you haven't, I strongly encourage you all to look up Neil the Seal on TikTok. And you can see his antics. You can see he just likes to take naps. And I feel I remember maybe he's narcoleptic. Like, I mean, I don't, I don't know. Like, listen, just let him let him just leave him alone. Like, if I could do anything, I think I would go to Tasmania just to see Neil. Like, I feel like that would be worth I would go there to see a Tasmanian devil.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Because I grew up watching Looney Tunes and Bugs Bunny and Taz. I had a shirt that had Taz on it, you know?

SPEAKER_03 51:19

I was thinking Space Jam.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

Oh my gosh. He was in Space Jam. See, I thought look, see, I was watching Looney Tunes way before you though.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

Oh, just her, I think. I think this will be the year. She was not 40, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:34

No. She was.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

I gotta look at the thing. She was gonna turn 41, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:40

41.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

Regardless. I am freaking gnap.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

The bones of autumn.

SPEAKER_03 51:48

She was 40, see? See? I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna life. Life's too short to have bad hair, okay? And this my children think this is bad. So everybody better be giving me a like right now because this is not bad hair. And if you think this I my hair, listen.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Hey, I I worked hard on that.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

I will say she would uh be very proud. My hair is but my sister was the one that always did hair with me, and so Nick has had to step in and fill those shoes. And God love it. When I say Nick, you're gonna braid this into my hair. He sits down and he braids it into my hair. So when y'all see us out, you're gonna say, It looks fantastic. Because that's the way we roll. You only live once, and some don't get to live long enough. That's right. So I life's too short for me to care what you think about the hair, right? It does.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

See, it looks fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

It looks fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. I'm choosing to believe that. We're gonna try to wrap this up. The particulars is gonna be back on Monday at nine, and you need to tell your friends because while we did break down some of the biggest cases in the headlines right now, we also, I think you all enjoyed the post talk more. And I don't know, maybe we can come up with another live opportunity of just us being us.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

The Irish goodbye.