African Renaissance Podcast
The African Renaissance Podcast hosted by Dr Mbuyiseni Ndlozi provides a stage for vital conversations with actors working to improve the lives of African people. It provides sharp analysis & critique of Africa's social, political & economic history.
African Renaissance Podcast
Episode 46 - Ringo Madlingozi: 30 Years of Music, Life Lessons and Nation Building
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Dr Mbuyiseni Ndlozi is in conversation with Ringo Madlingozi on 30 years since the release of his first album in 1996. From the origins of his distinctive sound and his early years in the Cape Flats to loss, survival, love, African unity and the changing South African music industry, Ringo reflects on the experiences that have shaped his music and career.
Ringo also reflects on the songs and albums that shaped his career, the experiences behind his music, and what it means to continue creating after three decades in the industry.
How are you handed? I'm fine over there. You are turning thirty years this year since your first album Ringo in 1996, which I think many people might remember that carries the song Issipity Peter Saint Obe. Yeah. Sure. 30 years in the music industry. What does that mean? You know the other thing that is 30 years is South Africa's constitution this year. But what does it what does it mean, uh this milestone to have been that consistent 30 years? How many albums later? And what does it mean musically, artistically, and maybe even personally?
SPEAKER_01Doc, uh people love what I'm creating, the music. It means that uh I am in touch with what is happening. I grow with times and I sing about uh common uh emotional uh feelings that we all have. Uh love, you know, disappointment, fights, hate, death, death. You know, and uh those are things that we we can never escape as a human. So and I and I also believe that the uh the music and uh the the rhythm that the people today live by I carried all the time. I'm I'm I'm moving with time with the with the with the people's uh you know ups and downs and uh different um you know vibrations. Um and and of course, uh I'm glad that I can still create was there are people talking about creative block. I don't know that. Because every day is a song. It's just that um one must be able to interpret it, put it down so that even a little baby would understand what you are singing talking about.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziSo when you say creative block, it's precisely what do you mean? People reach a situation where the creation of new music doesn't come to them anymore. Is that what you mean? Yes.
SPEAKER_01And you've been writing since as I'm saying, talk, I I I every day is a song. I would just put something down.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziAnd uh how many songs do you do you have published and unpublished? If you were to Tibanese, how many?
SPEAKER_01There uh more 160 songs published that are out in my in my albums, and there are a lot of uh unfinished songs, over 300 that that I I have them in my uh hard drive. Every now and then I would listen, and then I I get worn out. Then I'll realize that oh, by the way, this song that that I did in the fourth album is this was the the the the the the idea. Then I can go back to that and create another idea based on what came to me as as as an initial point.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziDo you think there was a tectonic shift that your music cost caused in the in South Africa's sound? Do you think there is something unique and uh tectonic? You know, there are there are artists who start movements, whether they are uh agreeing or not, whether they're intentional or not, like you know, who doesn't who could disagree that Bob Marley uh started and introduced, you know, a movement which became reggae music? But how do you rate your sound? Is it a sound that was consistent with what existed before? Did you shift anything? And if you did shift something, what is the sign of that shift outside yourself?
SPEAKER_01Um I believe I have a sound, Dotter. The song that I wrote in 1980 at the end of 85, uh, with um Siren Ugana, the late uh keyboard player that we worked with uh on my second group, Ipetto. Uh the song Kia Where the Heart Is has got all the elements of the songs that Ringo has been singing ever since. So I believe there is a pattern and and the way that I arranged my my chords uh towards the um the choruses, you know. Like I would I would when when I look at my music is I'm doing this and that that is the verse, verse one, I'm doing this because I saw this, and that's why I then that that's why it becomes the chorus. So all the stories are like that. You can you you have to listen to the song and it goes, you know. I can't have a song that on the first verse, like uh I lived, I died. Now, there's no chorus for me now because I'm dead. Excuse me, that that that um uh managed uh to create a sound for me that uh I I can easily see other young musicians copying. And I don't worry about that because I know they they have been beaten by the same bug that bit me a long time ago. You know, uh I don't mind having all these young guys, boys and girls, you know, wanting to do something that is like Moringo.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziBut music does have movements, so uh just like literature, just like you know, political ideas, you know, you are at the helm of some movement. And uh I suppose I suppose the the if I let me let me just put it uh this way do you think there is a name uh you could give to your sound if you were to name it? What name would that be?
SPEAKER_01Ringo Grooves. Grooves fast and slow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. I don't know how else to put it though. But I cannot say it's afro pop, I don't say it's um afro whatever, yeah, but it's how how how I I I have a very uh clear, you know, ear when I listen to something. It's like if if I if I'm reading a book, because I've read all these books, then I would um quickly uh understand how it will end. If in this part of the book, this is what is happening based on what so I'm not out. But then there are other books that have got to twist the end, so that's why I would have to finish the book. Now coming back to what I'm saying is the songs that I the sound that I'm doing is is controlled and being driven by the the instances of what is happening. You know, uh in my life at that time. Remember music is uh is a conveyor. Like on a it's like you are on a conveyor belt where the music reflects and reports what is happening in that time. So if the music is not doing that, is not you know giving messages to people who maybe in 100 years want to find out what is happening in this time, they can go and listen to the music of that time. Then the message will be there. I see. So I'm I'll be that's how I'm like living with my music. Hence every day is a song.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYeah. It's interesting to me, uh, because I do think the story that is consistent is the story of love in your, I mean, of course, there's a lot of romance in it, but there's love in the universal sense of the human condition. Yeah. And I wonder if we can go uh even earlier in the 80s and your early years. Uh and if you could maybe take us into confidence together with the audience, your teenage years in the Cape Flats, you join or you participate in gangs. What took you there?
SPEAKER_01You know, there's uh in uh in Cape Town at that time, uh even before uh I I decided to to join my cousin, you know, on you know, with the Night Riders in Cooked. Uh Night Riders being a gang.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYes.
SPEAKER_01I realized that um there are you know groups that control different territories. And uh if I go alone and maybe uh going to visit a friend, whether he's a colored or not, chances are I will be you know attacked because I'm not known in that area, like dogs are attacking a strange dog that is crossing their path and all that. So and now in in my life at that time, there were too many gangs, you know, it could lead to uh and hater felt and money back, you know. So to be able to be protected, uh you go with that crew, you know, all the time. And not I was not necessarily uh aiming at harming anyone, but it was all about having to have a lot of people that you'll be looking out for me for what in in whatever way that would come. Um yes, I would I would um my my parents took me to continue studying in uh so-called Trans Guy at that time because 1976, 1977 uh was burning in South Africa. So I was taken to another country, Transky. Yes, crazy. So when I was there, I I I you know it was a different ball game, you know, there was uh schooling, you know, people going to school and everything, as if it's not burning around South Africa. So now coming back, I came back to a different uh, you know, volatile, you know, uh environment, even though I would come home every holiday. But it was, you know, I I I I never experienced the the you know the the being shot at. But before I went to Toskai, there would be, you know, you know, we used to call them, I don't know, who were kids. Hey, I'm a Rashi, I don't know who put that, you know, in our heads, like all these, you know, white guys with guns, you know, sticking out of their caspers, shooting at young boys, and like it's like they were just killing young black males, you know, for the future not to happen. So I knew that then that's that's why I was shipped out of the country. And where there were there were those uh guys staying in the in the hostels, fighting with uh the dwellers of you know of the townships. And our house was two streets away, you know, uh from this um uh confrontational uh road, like like just one in the one towards the road, I think. So when I came back, uh people were, you know, yeah, they would they they were still very uh the youth was in the in a in a very uh they were very organized politically. Uh they were speaking different languages, they were uh politicized heavily, you know, uh through different SRC structures and everything. So there wasn't anywhere that I would go and and and because everyone was doing their own thing. So I thought, no, let me go and and have some time with my cousin, and I realized that you know these guys, they're moving in crowds and what? I just want to find out what the what the hell are they for?
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziDid did your gang have did it have a name? You said it was the Knight Riders. Where did the name come from? I don't know. But so what would you do then except protect each other? Were you engaged in any other activity other than the fact that touch one, touch all?
SPEAKER_01Well, to be very honest, Doc, I I I I never even I never knew how they make money. But they were making money, but they were having money. And I was just known that uh this is uh Lim Khan's uh you know singing brother. More like, you know, yeah, some of them, if if I'm doing uh shows with some groups, I would invite two or three of them, you know, just to come and uh watch me and all that. Uh and another thing, there was a time we were performing in Cape Town as the first group that I joined, end of 84. Uh, we performed in this uh place, uh Samaj Center in Rylance in Cape Town. While we were performing, but at that time I was, in fact, we were performing cover versions, American cover versions, and I was doing um Judge for Yourself by Teddy Penegrass. I hit that song and I knew that you know I uh I could sing that song, you know, very good. So these guys walk through the you know the hall with pangas and what you know trying to cause havoc. Some of them came in set on stage while I'm performing. So when I stop, they say, I know here, yeah, judge for yourself now. I said, Judge for yourself again. I played that song more than 20 times. Every time I I finished, uh ta. Uh-uh. Just for yourself, no. With bangers, you know, that by the time they left, I was sick of that song. Then I realized that hey, we need to be protected somehow, you know. It was in places, uh in situations like that. What do you do as an artist? You know, you have uh your instruments, you know, and but else we don't carry that guns and knives. So yeah. You know, things like those, they would be yes. I would think that you know we we need to also protect ourselves within the environment.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziAnd how far did this activity then of being part of a gang, how far did it go uh with your involvement? I mean, what were the most you would call extreme moments where it went very far?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh as I said, uh I I guess I was just enjoying their company. As a result, I was seen as one of the gang members. Uh, I guess I would be guilty uh for associating with them if anything would have happened. Yes, you know, but did but did anything happen. Yes, but the actually the last time that um we I found myself you know in that situation, Sunday morning we were just you know, they were they went somewhere and came with the loot. So we're drinking uh at that time, you know, very expensive brandies and all that. So I was you know having you know the you know getting some shots. And uh then I realized that they are going to push for another there's a mission that they want to go for towards the hostel. And I'm like, okay, no, let's go. Now I'm nice and uh you know drunk and and and yeah, I'm I'm I'm fearless. Let's go. And my cousin is the leader, you know, walking. We're about 12.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziSo are you a gang of pangas or are you a gang of okappis or no the actual guns? The good guns, yeah. Yeah, yes. Could you operate a gun at this stage? Yeah, okay. Then you go and what what happens? So are you carrying guns? Oh, yes, I had my uh I had to have one too.
SPEAKER_01Do you remember what it was? Um well it was a flywheel. Is it Norinko? It's like a cult or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we are um Norinko is the yes, yeah. So uh so now we are so I I heard uh you know my brother said that they are so we started running towards them. Who are they? It's the guys with uh you know duke on their heads, you know, it's like from the hostel. At this, so and what's the problem? Why are you I don't know why, but we are going to attack. For what? I don't know. It was you still don't know. Well, uh, I think they they they they attacked one of the gang members. Okay, yeah, I think uh a weekend before. So maybe they maybe they would they were caught doing something, then they were attacked. So now they're going to go pay revenge. And I'm there. I don't know what's going on, but I'm you know, uh, and then shots rang. And then my brother also shoot back. I took out mine as I was cocking this guy, like boom, my brother fall like on his face. Your brother. Yeah. Uh I looked at him and saw this green stuff coming out of his eye. I'm like, what is going on? Now the realities you know struck me like, hey, this is rare. So the others went in. I said, No, I'm I'm sitting next to him, you know. Now here I am with the gun in my hand. I'm crying. I don't know what to do, you know. People came. I remember something, throw the gun away, throw the gun away. I believe there were cops coming, but then the next thing I remember, uh Mokosonge, you know, uh coming into fashion because we had a gig, then we need to do. So I threw I threw that thing, you know, one of the trains there. Good in the car, steal uh, you know, trunk, uh went and perform.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziThe Cape Flats. I mean, you you I I I'm of the view, and you would tell me if I'm wrong. Obviously, this is your brother, and then he died. This is the experience to this day, 40 42 years later. It is still a place of murder for young black men.
SPEAKER_01Madness. Madness. Uh I don't think the government managed to clean uh that environment properly. Uh because all the interventions that are being done, they last only a month or two. I think the the the thing that needs to be done is to change the young the young man's mentality of why we want to fight one another and all these territories, you know, the drugs that are being sold, and uh you know showing others what I have, what I'm wearing, you know, and and if I cannot afford this, then we go and join the camp to, you know, uh be able to buy myself this. All those things, the the that that that life of wanting to be seen as somebody uh it also causes uh a lot of uh people to do things that they would eventually regret doing.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziDid this mourning this loss find its way in any of your works? This specific loss of Lebuhan is it Lebuhan? Did did did you in any way deal with that loss in any of your works musically? And if so, which one?
SPEAKER_01From the very first album in Fukani that Ring Human was dead, there's a song um uh a Tamba where I'm relating the the intelligent way that uh I grew up uh experiencing, even though I don't say I I you know, but I I put it across as a general you know question to everyone that I wake up in the morning on a hungry stomach because I slept without food, and when I look for bread, there's no bread now, just drink water with sugar instead of walking to school two or three kilometers up, yeah. Primary school. I got there, I'm late, my my my shoes got holes under, you know. I I I can't fix them. Uh and then when I'm late, I'm I'm being, you know, the gates are closed, I must get some lashes, you know. I got in there, I cannot concentrate because I'm hungry. You know, all those things. So somehow they created uh the artistry in me, a root butter that and and and at the end I'm like ungalashi temp. Now, somehow that uh living that life of not having anything, but I had my voice. So during uh short breaks, I would just stand somewhere between the toilets and the classrooms and just you know uh sing for myself and doing a cappella. Then I started to sing, and I would sing songs that were popular at that time. And of course, girls love, you know, beautiful voice, you know, then they would give me some money. No, please go do another one. By then I started to make money for my lunch, you know. Uh and at the same time, coming back to a question, uh, there's a song that uh the rhythm was coming from um which owner or sine. So uh but somehow that rhythm triggered what I experienced losing a brother and also here my friend from uh a Pinkville, Aruevville, Wing Zahal, yeah. And uh those moments come in uh when I sang that song One Bill that was you know uh done by Ucho Nina. So some of these instances come up whenever I you know a certain uh moment triggers some sadness in what I write. Yeah.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziMaybe to just conclude this part of loss. You've lost in three consecutive years your sister, your mother, and your father. That's right. In the last three years. Uh yes.
SPEAKER_01My mother was two months back.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYes. That's a lot of depth. Yeah, very crazy. Compact, like uh I'm telling you. And perhaps my question is, what do you do? And how do you how do you survive?
SPEAKER_01Doctor, uh the first time when uh uh my sister died, yes, uh I I I I accepted that this death and uh you know, and um when my father would die again, I'm like oof. Okay. I would say okay, he he you know, he was 85, it was fine. He's played his part in this world, yeah, you know. Uh he saw his grandkids, blah blah. And when my mother died, it was something different. So like uh my heart's being torn apart. Uh and then uh every time I realize that I won't get that call. You know, uh it becomes a problem, you know. I might be just having fun and happy and then boom, we're oof.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziBy the way, why is it is it is it that is it so? I mean, normal, you are an old man yourself, yep. Over 60 years, yep. Why is death like that? Why why why because you say okay, she was 70 something or 80 something or 90, um 60 something, but you you you just get infantilized by death, it just makes you this helpless situation. I just don't know what is it about death that achieves that so much.
SPEAKER_01I the at first when my sister, you know, uh died, I was I I kept on thinking about uh our quarrels and our you know laughs and all this. So I I wish I could quarrel with her again, you know, and uh same with my father when when he would be shouting at me about doing something that I was supposed not to do and all those things. And um like with with my mother, I I I I don't know. I guess I've realized in some instances she would feel it when something's wrong, she would call me at N time or write a book. She is if you knew at no time, just pray to God, all that would go away and remember uh that everything that you know you are uh you know is is uh attacking you or uh the hurdle that you you you have to jump over, you have to so that you learn something, just accept it, then kill on with life. Now, when I when that thing comes and I realize that actually that someone is no longer there, then the pain comes again. You know, as experiences I have, yes.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYou know, as a lot of people would go to your music to deal with uh loss, to deal with pain, disappointment, maybe sometimes to carry on an excitement, a happy moment. Yeah. Uh and they drink out of the well you have, uh, which is this catalog of your work. That's correct. What do you do? Whose well becomes a refuge uh to try and or you you you don't want music. What do you do? Is there is there a well where you go to drink to deal with your loss and your disappointment and your pains?
SPEAKER_01I live a different kind of life. Every time I wake up, I wake up with a song in my head, not to create, but a song that I know. Or I'll hum up like, no, man, I know this song. And it will be with me for quite the 40 minutes, uh 40% of my morning, that song will be ringing in my head. Then I will sit down and look for it. And I listen to it, the the lyrics of that song, uh, and and read it. Like, okay, this is the message that I should be doing today. So whenever I I I wake up uh, you know, thinking about or the loss or any disappointment. Yes. Sometimes my song comes to rest. Yeah.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziIt's as you put it, uh, 30 years. Uh I hope there's a 30 year anniversary concert coming. I don't know. Maybe we'll end there. Other than love, uh, one of the most important aspects of your music is Africa. Uh the idea of Africans, their unity, their liberation. Uh, could you take us through why is that such an important theme in your work?
SPEAKER_01Besides love, doctor. I concentrate on self-love. Unity, songs that build one another, and also songs that protect one from being attacked by our principles. Sometimes the things that we think about are the ones that are destroying us while us silent. You know, sitting down, thinking that everything when when you see me smiling, like, oh hey, this guy's having a good time. Meanwhile, I'm busy watching videos in my head that are slowly destroying me. You know, so um the um first of all, I I I Doctor, I I'm I realized that my purpose in life is to use the power, wisdom, and love from everyone, from everything in the universe to create music that heals.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziThat heals.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And um if I do any music that mocks someone uh or look down, you know, to any person whatsoever, any music that distract that that destroys, you know, I it doesn't get finished. But I'm like, no, something's wrong. Yeah, I've got this song, and why not? I mean, why then I have to change the lyric and the um the melodies. They must sooth. If it's dancing, they must keep you on the floor or hear you, you know. Um that's the music that I'm doing. Yeah.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziBut why this importance of the of the of Africa for you? Um I'm not saying that it's not the case with others, but you tend to focus on Africans and exactly people.
SPEAKER_01I read a lot, Doctor. Um, I never went to university, even though I was accepted at UCT to do my uh medicine. Legacy? Oh, yeah. Were you that bra? No, no, I was uh I was listening.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziMedicine. Yes, and remember medicine is is is is like uh high higher grade mathematics.
SPEAKER_01Well, remember we our way of uh being taught uh what we call it that the pedagogy. Yes, you know how we were taught to you know suck everything in, yes, and then recognition it on paper. And the more you had a good memory exactly, so I would do that, but then uh and my father would be like hey, when a man uh uh if I got 80 percent, where is that 20%? You know, so uh but then uh I I was uh when I was in uh St. Chong's I I used to you know to the send uh what are called these application forms to the universities, you know that so because of of my marks before metric, uh so they never wanted to, they I I don't I think they had they thought I would I would still be getting higher marks, yes, you know, for the metric, but then I was expelled at uh St. John's College. It's for because of uh I was a member of the um UDF at the time. I don't remember, but actually I I was pushing you know the the uh at the time and also working with young Christian movement at the time. So my name is was uh not a very good name. So we're expelled. Some of us with with with the late uh Kimi Makwit Ota China, you all expelled. So there was that two years of not doing anything, that two years where I was involved in gangster and what and being you know for cast. So when I went to write now my my uh finally my metric uh under joint matriculation board, the AMP, which which is the um the system that the colors were using in Cape Town, not us because we were using band education. So when I wrote this, so I passed, you know, uh fairly past the I got the exemption on the nah from now I won't be getting anywhere with this. So uh, but then Shell Road to Fame came.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYeah, you know, yes, yes. And uh yeah, you became famous anyway. Back to the story of the African condition in your world, yes, yes, the significance of that. Ufuna in the room, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01Actually, definitely, definitely. I'm sorry, I just look as I was saying, I read a lot about how Africa was divided. Actually, these countries, they they got together, you know, discuss, you know, Africa, which part you want, which part you want, Chairman and all of them. You know, England said so we were our our our part was being you know taken by the English. That's why now I'm I'm trying to speak, you know, this English. Um so in my mind, I wish people could go back and realize that all those leaders who wanted to unite Africa, they were made to be killed by their own people. Uh, if we can get together and unite as Africans, um I think the coming generations will benefit from it. But unfortunately, today everyone wants to put money in his or her pocket, not necessarily thinking about the coming generation, you know. So my music is all about African unity, yes, African love, you know, working together as uh a very false unified structure. Look, there's this guy from uh Burkina Faso, uh Ibrahim Traurit. Yeah, I think he's doing a good job for for instance. And um the you know that that East African uh commission, community that that was being tried by Chomukenat and uh with uh the Uganda and uh the Somalians. Look, if that had got together, maybe by now 80% of Africa would be would be free, but it was being cut into pieces by the very same people that are still ruling the world, you know. Africa must not be must unite because if it gets to be united, it's gonna be a very strong there.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYou you you've worked a lot uh from collaborations, you've drawn a lot from the continent. And I mean at some point you were Africa's number one artist. And I'm thinking about it was 1998. Yes, yes, yes. Uh but how do you rate today's music? I saw you uh in your society that you attended uh the very successful uh uh Scorpion Kings project concert at FNP. That's right. I mean you were there with Rodman, you know, uh went to support the beautiful work that Maporisa and Gabza. That put together large festival in the first instance of South African artist and talent. Sure. That type of uh, you know, it's not one-man show. But I'm I'm I'm wondering if you could give us your own critique. What is the place of music today in this job, in this project of uplifting the levels of consciousness to understand the significance of African unity? Where do you rate our music in relation to that project?
SPEAKER_01Well, look, I first of all people like young people, they don't want to worry themselves or engage themselves in in um uh you know bigger plans about Africa. They just want to have fun, you know, and uh I wish that more of those artists were singing about the love for each other, you know, the the beauty of being united. The the show was beautiful, it it was spectacular. You know, people enjoyed seeing their artists in that they enjoy listening to on radio and everywhere working together and on that. And and you you enjoyed yourself as well. No, I did. Yeah, look, I mean I was I was amongst my kids there, yeah, yeah, you know, and and it was feeling good. Um but what I never realized for real, never that these young guys don't actually get along backstage, it's like ish, you know, um but uh I I I did get a sense that they respected me. But you can see, you know, sitting down watching them interacting, you know, there's there's big eagles clashing and all that. I'm like, wow man, this is a place where we should show unity. You know? Uh that was a bit worrying, but like well, this is a showbiz. Maybe I I I guess I always thought that people are genuinely in loving each other. But now it's always a a facade, and then when you look away, you find someone nothing great now. But you know, I I I I yes, I wish people could be very, very, very uh uh uh united and in and loving what they do. Gabza and um Maporiz are backstage, they are the same, they just love, they laugh. They're you see that these are like brothers, it's fine, they're having fun, you know. I won't say much about others who you know sing each other, they're when you okay?
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziBut how do you rate uh South African music contribution to the project that was very strong to your generation, which is this message of African unity, uh and I mean you you go uh far into even working against tribalism in your in your music.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziAnd you venture into a deliberate uh all the time, you singing in tossa, you sing in Vanda, you sing in Tonga, you sing in Shona to demonstrate this this idea that uh particularly from a cultural point of view, cultural creativity point of view, the the the this continent ought to be one. Uh I'm asking when you listen to what is big today, when you look at who is big today, how do you rate the commitment uh to the continent's commitment to the African project?
SPEAKER_01Um there isn't much that is being uh I would say exposed by radio stations towards that direction of African unity. I don't know whether it is a a deliberate uh plan by the radio stations to choose songs that are not uniting, but to choose songs that are about uh fun, that are about you know uh ladies going naked, you know, and and and all kinds of things, you know. But the young ones now they they're pushing the line of uh uh taking drugs, you know, how I smash your and all kind of things that are doing, you know. And uh I I don't think it's it's working towards uh you know building the future of uh you know the coming generation. Uh but well, not all of them are like that, but I think music compilers should be at fault here. I'm talking about uh a radio station that I invited to come and uh uh be part of the listening session of my new album. Up to date, they never played it. Yeah. And uh I listen to them most of the time. Interact with them, call whenever there is an artist, you know, in the studio, but they refuse to play my music. That's why I'm saying that somehow there is a a plan that these music compilers have, you know, and and that is that uh that uh direction is the one that is killing our music. And uh it's actually killing the the our future generation because uh what uh these radio stations are uh uh are pushing across is not you know helping at all. So I wish that the uh songs that could be flashed and splashed over ship songs that encourage unity. They have those songs, these young guys. But the music compilers will push a different one. Yes, uh now the the the levels are uh um uh are being uh wide open. Now we we have this you know uh uh social media which can still not be stronger than the radio. You know, yeah, um yeah, and uh the standard of the music, you know, um the the the production. Now they have a beautiful production, hence it is all over. Yes, you know, the young stars all over the world, the uh gravity towards Amapian and all that, and and it's that's how it is, you know. So uh on that part, big up to the young guys, you know. They have achieved what we never could. Yes.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziUh I mean uh but there hasn't been like uh I'm imagining from you um I as I again I don't know the the the approach here properly, but don't we like the succession of Zahara? Like you know, if you were on the scene, um uh you you in many ways were succeeding a very important generation that uh included, I think just between you and Abuper Hugh uh was Brenda uh Farsi's sort of generation. And then you know, thank God we had Zahara.
SPEAKER_01That was a mentor that just came and passed, yeah.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYou know, uh but that's a generation after you, yeah, yeah. See, see Pigengogui. I'm just saying, in terms of like a sort of certain genre, you see, I see dance music is doing well, dance music was always there, and it seems to be, you know, now as you put it, the quiet is massive and all of that. And then there's uh you know the stuff around uh I mean not quiet, piano is massive, and it is it has captured the world with fire. Uh there was a moment of piano, there was a moment of calm. Yeah way before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But see, Pigengo in your in your assessment is is is is uh Makazi, is Tyler, the Brenda, the Ringo, and the and the Zahara.
SPEAKER_01I must say I I I haven't given myself enough time to listen to uh the these days the trending music, you know, I don't know. Yeah, there's a there's a difference between something that is trending and the one that is authentically uh uh strong uh identity of the music today, like you say Abu Zahara, no prenda when when they were doing it, yeah. You know, it was like you know, you can take that person um begin on stage with no with nothing else but a mic, yeah. You will follow them, you know, but uh very few now of all these young guys who can do that.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYeah, it's very difficult to sing anyway. Let's go to uh a bit of these albums. I mean it's 30 years, as I as I said, we we've got uh It's Pity Pity Sent Omgi, which is you know the first album. But I wonder, okay, let me put it broadly, what would have been the most difficult work to put together of all the albums?
SPEAKER_01Uh okay, let me tell you this story. Uh on my very first album, Uf Gun, that is the album that I'm talking about, the the trials and tribulations that I have experienced as a child. Like uh Itamba, you know, and also some comedy with Issipiti Peters into the Google. It's like this guy is busy thinking that uh these girls are playing are playing him. Meanwhile, he is the cause of why. Anyway, uh so on in that album, I was very much concerned about uh the situation that was happening at that time, and there's a song that was an open letter to the Minister of Correctional Services, uh Mr. Mzimela. And and and start with his name. So I was asking that there are kids that are locked up, you know, in jail. Some of them they are they are locked up because they stole a sandwich that they wanted to eat. They were hungry at the time.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYes, yes.
SPEAKER_01But now they're the throwing trail for six months. They are their their lives have been broken. So on from that album, Vugan then, uh the executives of the company said, Hey, come on, man. You got a beautiful voice, man. Stop worrying too much. Think about love, come on. Think about love, man. You know why you want to say about these things? These things are draining, you know. Make people happy. I'm like, okay, I've got songs that I put up anyway. Yeah, so I've brought them and then I on Sondilani, a portion of love songs, yes. Ah, they were like, Yeah, you see, we told you. Yeah, then your ring of Majuzes, you know, got up. But then because I know what I want, on the next one, you went back. I went back, and on that one, I went too bad. You know, I I I came with a big uh, you know, it's a lot of like big band. Yeah, uh brought in uh a lot of uh black and white artists to to perform in that album. At that time, it cost me uh 135,000, uh a lot of money at the time. At the time, yeah, and it meant nothing. So they went back to love. Then you know, it was like Vugani, Son Delani. Then my melani is one, but sort of like had it is a very good uh album for uh musicians. Uh, you know, there are songs also that brought back the that uh uh melancholics, you know, yeah, so full like palettes, yes, yes, yes, you know, yes, yes, but it didn't do anything. All the money that I collected from uh Sondelani, I put it back on that uh uh you know, Mamelan. It did nothing, so I went to then I went to into a um computer back to love, yeah. Again, I went up, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so the the the one uh Mamelan, it cost me a lot of things.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYeah, so and and okay. I mean I'm biased on this one as you know, yeah, yeah uh because what explains that for you? Uh is it is it the ear and the way in which because music we are almost always it's like taste. There's an education of what we should desire when you cast you know Imamelani and you're trying to deal with but Ringo, leave those things to other people. Yeah, literally no one doing that, exactly. Yeah, and and but what do you what do you make? What do you make of uh it you attribute it to the fact that our people are socialized not to look for consciousness in music, they just wanna forget problems, exactly, exactly. You know, you you you get him loan, and yet, but I don't understand because when you think of Puzekemis, yeah, like you, but Puzekemis doesn't retreat. Yes, he's on point, he's uh dealing with migrants. From Mbizo. From him bizo in the 80s, yes, he's the he doesn't stop. He just spits the truth. He's uh he's he's on point. And uh how come it works in Maskandi though?
SPEAKER_01Uh well look, there are people you know who are you know fighters who who will be there, you know, uh out there to to to you know hubber, harbor no no no fear. Yes, yes, yes, no, let's carry on, let's do it. You see, and most of uh the artists that are among that vibration by Pogumaskandi, yeah, yeah.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziI mean, I mean they speak the truth. Maskandi has the biggest uh concentration of songs that deal with social issues, exactly, just like rock and roll. Yes, yes, you know, rock and roll, you know, they speak the truth, yeah, and they don't care, yes, you know, yes, but it doesn't sound like I mean if you think of um Whitney Houston, that voice telling you about problems you don't want, you you know, yes, you don't you don't want to hear problems? Live, live African Watu man. You come begging full full and not taluaman, please tell me about my taling. Can you can you make me fall in love? Maybe it's your maybe it's your tone and the the sophistry of your pitch. I don't want to hear problems when when uh I if I want to hear problems, I want to hear, except I mean, even those Mascandi chaps, they the eyes and the false, they sing those men sing in a first part if they they peach, they go with soprano all the time. It's it's all singing from the heart. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01You know, sometimes I would uh be invited, you know, to uh a gallery and something like that where I am expected to sing, sing your love songs, man. And I have something to say that is very important, like about about about you know the GBV that is happening today. Yes, uh, you know, look, and they would be like, no, they're not listening to what I'm saying. They're just like are you listening to what I'm saying?
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziOh my god, no, man. So I'll give you I'll give you an interesting one. It that I think potentially could have happened to me, you see. Because uh there was a time when you know they say go and campaign. Yeah, and I'm campaigning, I must convince people why must vote uh the EFF.
SPEAKER_01And you can see Bamje, that movement from I know, I know, but I used to sing and say thank you so much, but uh it can happen to you that I mean your your message no no that people we can come for message. You you you must sing please yeah, like the like no no no man hold on man look uh we're not here for sing something last time meanwhile I'm I'm I'm I'm talking something very important and uh relevant at that time, yeah.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziIt's like no Sunday last time okay what would you consider then your best collaboration? Uh uh everyone thinks, and I certainly think Oliver Mdugudzi's uh acceptance to your song, and maybe you could take us through that moment, that story of uh a collaboration with Oliver Mduguds. But I I I imagine you've had so many of these collaborations. Which one would you rate as the one that you always go back to? That that collaboration uh represents the highest point of my musical achievement. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um the one that actually broke, you know, went through all through the borders is the one that I did with Mkomatuk. Um but I did uh which song is that? Uh Into Yam. Yeah, yeah. Actually, let me tell you story about that. We were um we're working um under Nisa Business uh money.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziSo so so the intro, it's the lead. Yes, same thing, is that the song?
SPEAKER_01Yes, but then that one, that intro is from uh the original. I know, yeah. But then who's playing that lead? In A and you? Uh no, no, no, no, it's it's Pondo Doluz, uh okay. In fact, most of the the albums that uh I did Pondito is there is the lead. Oh yes, okay.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziUh because besides the very first three, it was Lawrence Machisa. Machisa. Yeah, that's where I was going. Yes, it looks like Oliver Mtuko was provoked by ping ping.
SPEAKER_01No, I did I I actually combined uh Pondus' uh first uh melody, like then after that I put uh Mkomatugu no, but I'm saying before what makes him attracted to the song is a actually, you know, okay. As I was saying, we were under the same management of NISA Business Services, which was run by the late Graham Kilfillan and Kensan Parts one. So he would meet him then whenever he's in town, so we Meet together, you know, in the office. Hey man, how was it so? So he heard uh my song in Doyam. Said, I said, Hey, Mgoma Ringo, I wish I could do this song. I said, Ah, well, please, whenever you're around. So I forgot about it. Then one day he was en route to London. So he called, he said, Man, I've got four hours. I don't know what to do. I said, Come, let's do that song. So we went in, fetch him, go in the studio. Um, so I organized um people who would sing the shoner, you know, part phonetically, because uh there are no shoner people that I know around who would sing. So I spoke to different people, you know, as I would always do and ask people, you know, okay, can you sing this in shore? Then I would sing it, and then there was meanwhile, he was coming. By the time he was there, I've got the you know, the ladies to come in and do the shona part. But then he would be there to direct it properly. I see. So we got there and then I uh I put him first. I said, okay, now have you got the story? You said no, no, just just uh um I will repeat what you're saying in shore.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01I said, okay, okay, let's do it. And then uh beautiful Sefaga. And then the he was taken back to the airport. We are left doing that and we missing it.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziWhose whose song? How the origins of the song, whose song is it? It's my song. It's it what happened in that way. Were you looking man in Dumbazana? Because can't share a law.
SPEAKER_01Look, yeah, you see, some you see, sometimes the the uh I don't I don't remember I don't I don't remember sharing uh shelling man the hotel because all the times in our you know they they are they're having that interest. I was like, no, I'm a waitish. So it's me now almost like uh whoa, hold on, hold on.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziOh, and I can't speak to you.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no, no, that way. Yeah, but uh I would be like, oh, okay, but uh you know, you know, you always want the one that uh doesn't want you anyway. You see? So uh then I would approach not to say I love you.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziBut wage was share, but share la chief. It's a business that I don't think we are discussing enough. I saw a very terrible uh terrible video of some men in a hotel with women. Uh it looks like they are refusing him. And that's threatening them to kill him. But uh, I mean, there's something about Ukshela that it looks like there's a crisis. Yeah, how long Tom Bazaar Uksha is is is is science.
SPEAKER_01You must know what and how to save time and space. Exactly. You don't disturb her while she's thinking about something else. Let her be here with you when she's listening, and you must be very direct that hey man, let's get turned. Oh, when? So I'm glad.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziI come say imaginary exactly. Look, how does it come to you then, this song? Like uh uh because I want to see uh maybe we experiment with precisely uh the song comes to you. Is it melody and then lyrics, and then in the studio, who decides that intro? Okay, because what drives everybody crazy. Personally. Twing, twing. You can't mistake in what's next.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, talking about that, um, well, uh okay, to answer you in the studio, um, I'm there. If if there'll be someone who wants to co-produce with me, all right, but please bring in some uh inspirational ideas, and Lawrence would do that.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziMuch easier.
SPEAKER_01Yes, work with them, and also Vitama Sond would do that as well, you know. Uh, but all the time I am I know what I want, I know I know how it came to my dream. Or I know I'm hearing uh before I hear it, I must hear it in my head first. How it must start, you know. So uh I just lost uh my my my train of thought. Halloween. Exactly. So now uh that story would be I would imagine myself, Shell. Yes, how would it be? And you know that you know this girl is like uh uh he's she's she's the the you know every every guy is afraid of approaching her. Yeah, we tell her to underport. But uh I'm afraid these days landed like problem with cerebral courts. But I want you to understand. So that is also you know, proposing, and also there's also some food uh um where um um I don't believe my eyes like hey in tombazana go ban zang and table in tomb cake and gaka is it is it my eyes? What's going on? Yeah do you see do we still love with such beauty? Ah, the way you look, maybe the way you walk, oh your legs, oh my god, and blah.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziI I I guess how how how does a a sepio uh sexual person like um to because I mean I I understand completely first we are with the features, but paralyzed by features, they just fall in love with the with the mud girls, yes. How would it sound a song like that where I I must tell the story that yes, the way you think but they could I don't think you have a song that talks to people who are paralyzed by you know a the brilliance of a woman because what song would they sing?
SPEAKER_01It's now remember when you sing you have to paint the picture.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYeah, now you imagine that I don't care no more maybe I care, but I must talk about that which that which made my heart turn into butterflies.
SPEAKER_01Let people you know uh have it on their mind just just yeah, oh I shouldn't know man I see and I knew was on bones how you talk. Oh what kind of a girl you talk? Maybe that guy that that lady is yeah, yeah, everything is new falling in love with the voice on the radio. Uh when when when you have to go and meet these personalities, and then they say, Hey, this is so and so, and I can go it can't be, you know. No, I was waiting for a beautiful this voice, yeah, yeah. So so they say, Oh, you've got uh a radio voice, meaning like you're not beautiful. Uh maybe you've got a radio voice.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziI think is is the is the new music for the 30 years that you are marking in in your sort of professional uh publications or releases?
SPEAKER_01Um adding to the 30th celebration, uh Sony uh will be collecting uh a lot of hits from all these albums, especially the one that was released in in um uh 1996, it's a pity pity, you know, and get them together. And I have two songs that I just finished doing. And and the unfortunately they came while I was you know mourning for my mother. And one song is uh Love is Essential, and I did a song um with the Barimba, you know, three-piece marimba and a guitarist uh uh cameron. Uh uh very beautiful uh guitar player man, you know, and uh with Ushubi, Kwebulana, you know, work with me, singing with him, and and also turned my system. We did that song uh Utan Windows, and it should be part of the the compilation. And also I did a song, It Includes Your Yam. Uh I realized that um my sons they have different mothers, and their mothers passed on already. So I realized how that could have affected them. So I called them and said, guys, we all lost our mothers. Come come let's do this song together. And you after you lost your own mother. Yeah, I see. So interestingly, um I'm um I'm having pillar and thunder uh to sing it, and it came out beautiful. Lovely. Yeah, uh, I've send it to you.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziYeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, I I I'm not so bad uh uh a listener of uh of music. We we I remember you know, I I I once tricked you into singing uh a song. Story for another day, but uh studio time, you many people experience you as extremely difficult to work with because of uh being patentic, yeah, I and uh excruciating attention to details. Um and uh this jovial ringo bambo nayo is uh the opposite.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, apparently you are worse than uh Kaifas mean because mathematical if uh we solo on that chord on the on that 13th uh universe, I want that note.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziSo what's the most what's the most you want uh out of a product for it to be perfect? What do you focus mostly on? Is it the vocals accents? Because most of the time you the words when you speak, when you sing come out clearly. Is it where the emphasis is? Is it is it on the uh on the instruments, the the the guitar, the rhythm section, the horn section, and all of that, or everything.
SPEAKER_01Well first of all, the the music should uh tell the story as well. Just like the lyric and the melody. And uh the problems that we tend to be uh caught in would be to sing uh happy songs on on minor chords, minor chords are like said um said chords, you know. You can't be uh you know and also some people would would um a nice rhythm, but the the they are shouting that yeah, I love you. It's like you know, if you don't understand, you know, the English the language, that that is like maybe he's angry or she's angry, you know. So those are the things that that I look at the rhythm, uh the um uh the the uh the whole feel of the song. Is it growing? You know, at the same time, remember when one is listening to a song, it's like you're listening to a song from a hole and and it's passing like this. The minute you lose interest in this, you go somewhere else. So you have to keep everyone interested for all those moments until you get to the chorus. By the time you read the chorus, now the person is ready for the second verse, whatever he says from there. Yeah, and also make sure that on the second verse, you don't lose the person from what he or she has heard from the first verse and the second verse, or the first verse and chorus, on the third one, third verse, take that person to another level. And if you can't do that, then the song is falling flat. Uh and and and even if one does not understand the the lyric, the delivery of the uh you know the the the melodies and the tone, you want to find out what is he or she singing about. You know, and if it's sadness, you'll feel it, and if it you know happiness, you'll feel it.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziWell, and calls I I was going uh uh I was tempted to say it's heritage, and maybe we get uh some little performance, but I realized you didn't even bring your guitar here at the African Renaissance podcast. You don't take us three as I take it for us. Remember, but thank you, thank you. I I I do think there's you do owe uh Africans this 30-year celebration of the body of your work because that's our heritage uh as a country. I hope I hope we'll hear about the announcement of that concert. Oh, for sure definitely soon. Definitely I will, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And actually, you know, as just saying the the um 1996 album that I did uh uh was it's got songs that are prophetic in any way. There's a song it abasimzin, which means visitors, where I'm asking the question that hey, um what are you going to do when the visitors come here? And are you going to protect us? Are you going to make us your priority and other so that at least we don't fight with our brothers and sisters who we'll be coming from? And for some heritage, I I will sing that for you my bo semini ma phonum sabama wabo Ingabo Cona Picama Semzini Ma phonum sabma wabo in gumbo come sendin tenam yes it's too pecky Gaman Gazola Banagis O'Cal Gobana Boogus Tina yes it's so peckily Gazobanina Gantin Maggie Zoaman book send Jinna Sitou Pecile for the heritage for the heritage thank you thank you so much thank you Wandana Bengosi don't forget uh to press that subscribe button.
Dr Mbuyiseni NdloziUh otherwise, uh thank you for the support. Keep the fire burning, and um Ringo has left us with a lot of love. Let's spread it across. Uh that's the uh African Renaissance podcast episode for heritage. Diablo Kate. Going to say.