Alpha-gal Outdoorsman
Alpha-gal Outdoorsman is for people suffering from Alpha-gal syndrome but still loves the outdoors. Our focus is to give hope to the Alpha-gal community that their outdoor life is not over. Tips & tricks, recipes, travel, along with all things outdoors, will be among things we discuss.
Alpha-gal Outdoorsman
Episode 12 Robert talks with Lisa Munniksma.
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Robert talks with Lisa Munniksma, a writer and strategist with Alpha Gal alliance. Lisa splits here time between Kentucky and Alaska. She takes over the podcast for a bit, She has some questions of her own.
Welcome to the Alpha Gal Doorsman Podcast, where we talk all things Alpha Gal and all things outdoors. Everything from hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, canoeing, kayaking, jeeping, off-roading, even gardening. I'm your host, Robert Worley. Hey y'all, welcome back to another episode of Alpha Gal Doorsman. As the intro just said, I am your host, Robert Worley. I got an interesting guest on today, um, Lisa Menixma. Um, and she really wouldn't tell me where she lived. So uh we we're gonna talk about a few things, but I got a feeling I'm gonna be interviewed a little bit today as much as I do the interviewing. So without any further ado, Lisa, how are you?
SPEAKER_00Hi, Robert. I'm doing great.
SPEAKER_02Good, good. So explain to us what you're up to because you reached out to me a few weeks ago, and that's how this all this ball got rolling. So explain to us what you're up to here.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Um, I guess I mean a bit of background. I um am a writer and communication strategist. I work primarily in farming and food systems, and I am working right now with the Alpha Gal Alliance. Uh it's a a nonprofit um that is doing education about um the Alpha Gal syndrome. And so I also have Alpha Gal syndrome. It's a thing you and I definitely have in common. And um, my work with them is outreach to farming and ranching communities, and uh as well as um right now we are working on an initiative to do more communications with rural healthcare providers. So um, when I contacted you, it was because I'm looking for stories of people who live, recreate, and work rurally and um trying to really drive home the impact that this disease has on folks like us.
SPEAKER_02Gotcha. Well, I first off, I want to say I appreciate your work for sure, because there's definitely not enough um education for the doctors. Um let me uh how long have you been diagnosed with alpha gal?
SPEAKER_00Uh I my first reaction was in fall of 2016. I was farming, I've been growing food on some scale since 2011. And in 2016, I was working for a diversified family farm and going to farmers markets for them. And there was a vendor there selling alpaca sausages, and I was like, oh heck yeah, I've never had an alpaca sausage. So that was my lunch. And then that afternoon I had hives on my legs, and I was like, wow, that's never happened before. And I thought, well, if I have to be allergic to something, let's let it be alpaca, because I mean, this is not a thing. This is not a thing we can really eat here. So um, and this was in Kentucky. Um, and uh so I went on about my life, and it took a year for me to figure out that oh, there's actually something really wrong here. And um, part of you know, a lot of people say this uh before they get diagnosed with Alpha Gauss syndrome is that like it just it takes a while after you eat before the symptoms show up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um, for me, my symptoms were pretty mild, and I just didn't eat that much meat to begin with. So it would be, you know, once a month or twice a month that I would just be boy, just have the worst stomach ache and you know, all kinds of GI symptoms. And um uh so yeah, it took about a year for me to finally, it was sort of like two reactions in a row, and I went, oh, I know what this is. Uh, because at that point I'd had I'd I'd known a few people who already had Alpha Gal at that point.
SPEAKER_02What about um in a 2016's been a minute? So what about doctors? Uh did did you did you immediately find a doctor that knew what Alpha Gal was, or was that a search as well?
SPEAKER_00Oh, um, no, definitely did not have a doctor that knew Alpha Gal was. When I when I went to her, um, this was in Lexington, Kentucky. Um, and uh uh when I went to her, I said, I think I'm allergic to to red meat. And she was like, Oh, that's people aren't allergic to red meat. And I was like, Okay, right. So let's what kind of what kind of blood tests do we have here? And so we just did a regular, you know, um panel.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and it has been explained to me that um allergy blood tests are not very reliable indicators of actual allergy, but uh still the panel showed I had really high um, I don't know what it's called, high levels uh for beef and pork. And uh I was like, told you so. Um I'm allergic to red meat. And so I actually didn't get the IgE blood test, um, like the the Alpha Gal, the actual Alpha Gal blood test. At that point, I just I knew what this was. Um, you know, the symptoms all matched up.
SPEAKER_02Have you ever gone and had the IgE test?
SPEAKER_00I haven't. Yeah, yeah. That's good.
SPEAKER_02That's good. Yeah. Um, so you say you don't you didn't eat a lot of meat, anyways. Um, so so was your histamines ever an issue at all?
SPEAKER_00No, you know, here recently I've been having some histamine issues. Um, I've been doing some traveling and I just spent a month in New Mexico. It's the first time I was ever in the desert, and um, I my body didn't like that at all. Um, but before this, no, I was it was really okay. I mean, my triggers back then especially were just dietary and it was just red meat. Um, I thankfully am able to eat most dairy. Um, there is some dairy that I do know I need to avoid, but um uh and here more recently, so um, yeah, it's it is kind of a joke. Like I won't tell people where I live. Um I split my time between Kentucky and Alaska at this moment. And um uh in last fall in Alaska, I had a um a fumes reaction to moose being cooked. And uh so here too, well a little bit I feel about moose the way I feel about alpaca, but um um being in the US, uh but being in Alaska, people eat moose, you know, just as much as any other red meat. So um, but I never before this had a fumes reaction. Um, also the past few years I've been having um a contact reaction to like uh friends had a tamale making party, and um, I was making the tamales and I knew there was lard in the dough, but I wasn't planning on eating the tamales and I thought, well, I'll be fine. And that night, that night I definitely had a reaction. So um I feel like it's changing some uh do you think you've ever been bitten again? Um not in the past few years, you know. My whole life I have attracted the ticks. Like this is just it, you know, it used to be that five of us would go hiking and we'd come back out of the woods and I'd be the only one with like three.
SPEAKER_02You'd have everybody's ticks. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And um, and so really, I mean, it's it's kind of especially growing up in New Jersey. Um, and I grew up in an area that has a high prevalence of Lyme disease, and I don't know how I didn't end up with it. So it's it's kind of amazing that it it was not until I was in an adult um and living in Kentucky that I finally uh contracted uh tick-borne illness. Um so it's hard. I'm not sure exactly which tick bite did me in, you know. Um when I think about like 2015, 2016, there were a few incidents um that come to mind. And so since then, I have to think certainly I've been bitten again, but not recently, not definitely in the past like three, four years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I got a second bite once, and um I did notice a difference for a minute. Um, for a minute, uh my histamines kind of got a little goofy. Um, I just really tightened my diet way back up, like I did when I first got it. Stayed that way for a while, and then started um pushing my luck a little bit again, you know. And I'm um, yeah, we'll get into me uh in a few minutes. Um well, I mean, if if so speaking of that, you when you contacted me, you was you're you you're looking for you you kind of you're gathering stories, I guess. That's the best way to put it, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So if you want to take over right now, you are more than welcome to take over. I'd like to end with talking about where you're at now. A little about your life in Kentucky and a lot about your life in Alaska.
SPEAKER_00So right, for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, well, I know this is kind of fun to go on someone else's podcast and interview them. Um that interesting uh right, right. Yeah, I had I had a podcast for a few years with uh called Hobby Farms Presents Growing Good. It was a podcast about farming and food systems um sponsored by Hobby Farms magazine. So um so it is it is fun to be able to now um sort of do a takeover of of your show. Um so well, I mean, like a lot of my questions for you are things that you've definitely touched on in previous episodes, but um, you know, how I guess when did you get infected and um and like what was what was that early journey like for you?
SPEAKER_02Well, um in the the beginning was terrible because uh figuring out what it was, first off. Um, so I was having these reactions and they was just driving me insane. And it's they started out pretty mild, you know. My eye would swell like I had a black eye, or my lip would all swell up. Um, and I or I would get a spot right there on my chin, my chin would just stick out like an inch, and it was like, you know, what's happening with me? Um I have a I run a small business and I have a retired guy that works with me a few a few days, which is a very close friend of mine, and my wife's name's Nikki, and he's like, Man, Nikki beating you up again. What's going on with you? You know, but it would be like I would leave for work in the morning and I'd be fine. Now, I'm a big beef jerky kind of guy, or was a big beef jerky kind of guy. I always had it in the truck, and I would go in the morning, um, you know, not much of a coffee drinker, drink a water and eat some beef jerky, and away we go, you know, it's just and um, you know, the day I remember when I figured it out myself. The the symptoms was getting worse. I was starting to go to GI issues, I was starting to get hives, all the things. The kids came up for supper one evening, and I threw a elk roast and a beef roast in a crock pot, just cooked them together. Um, you know, I have three kids and they have significant others or whatever. So we had a crock pot just chunked full of meat. We ate and um probably ate about six, and it was about 10 o'clock. I had been laying down, and man, I started reacting something terrible. I had a conversation which you probably, if you listen to the episodes, you've heard I've had a conversation with my hunting buddies years before. And um yeah, I knew I got I knew I went in and got the Googles and started researching, and I was yeah, and then convincing the doctors, you know, that was my next my next step, you know. Um, I haven't switched doctors, uh, kind of. I I mean I go to the same doctor's office, but I started with one doctor and um he's an outdoorsman, so he had at least heard of it. Um so he was open to the idea. But you probably heard me say this, um, and I quote, he said, Well, if it walk, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. So stop eating cheeseburgers. So he had no idea the extent of this, right? So um and then um, you know, it from there it was obviously a learning process, you know. I I got to the allergist, got the IgE test, and and this is after all the pro pokes and the prods from the doctors running a panel, running a skin prick and the whole thing. Skin prick never showed nothing. And when they wanted to do it, I told them, I'm like, I don't know if this will work because I don't react for three or four hours till after I eat. So I mean, um, but there was a little bit of irritation from the skin prick. Um, and there was um uh meat and pork and and there was uh milk. Um and it was just a couple, but it was very, very small. It was like, well, maybe, you know, but um yeah, so the early early on it was it was tough. Um yeah, um my symptoms was terrible. Um I have a friend, uh Lori, I credit her for saving my life. I say it every time I mention her name.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Um so one of my hunting buddies contacted me, and this this is a hunting buddy that I only see a couple times a year. When it's hunting season, you know, it's like we I, you know, so he contacted me. He said, Hey, I know somebody that has what you have. Um, she could probably help. Well, it was somebody I knew, and I had lost touch with her, hadn't seen her in 20 years. So um started talking to her and she started guiding me through the process. And um she kind of taught me how to shop a little bit, you know, introduced me to the fig app. I went, I couldn't shop in my town. I live in we do got a Kroger marketplace now, so we're better. But at that time, we had this little bitty old Kroger. It was the size of a Cracker Jack box. So I had to drive to uh Oxford University's 30 minutes from here. It's a college town, and they had a nice Kroger. So I drive over there, use the Fig app, shop. But I remember being over there that first trip, that three-hour grocery trip, you know, seeing that watermelon sitting over there. I was like, oh my gosh. You know, I took that watermelon home, cut it up, and uh within uh that time and evening time, I ate the whole thing. I mean, it wasn't a real big one, but I mean I just kept going back and kept going back. And and um that night I blew up. I was like, what? You know, what can be happening? Yeah, I called Lori on the phone and she says, You it's probably Mastel, you histamines are out of whack, and I'm like, back up, you know, and um then that's when I learned about histamines and um started getting my histamines under control, and um then things was starting to be on the up and up after that, you know. Um so yeah, that was the early times.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Um so your whole life kind of revolves around being outdoors, right? Like you are a hunter, you have this cabin in the woods in the Red River Gorge, which is one of my favorite places in the whole wide world, and um you're an arborist. And um so there's obviously this dietary issue that has had to change that you know, all of us are are sorting through. Um, what other adjustments have you had to make in your in your work life? I guess we'll start there in your work life. Are there any adjustments that you've made um as a result of having the allergy?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um so right where I live, the tick is here, but it's not as prevalent as like the gorge, you know. Um, but I carry um uh every vehicle that we own, my work truck, my regular truck, you know, my wife's vehicle, everything we own, all the way down. My wife's got a small business as well, and all the way down to the mulch truck that she had that, you know, has got a can of uh tick repellent in the door, every one of them. And um we did some volunteer work yesterday for uh a local historical society that has a prairie. And we went in and we cleared uh Bradford Pears out of the prairie, and it was like I come down over the hill, I'm like, boys, spray down, you know, and um and um and like I said, you know, the the where where I live, it's the deer tick is worse than any is is worse than the lone star, but the lone star here. So, you know, um when we go, uh we just got back from turkey season. Uh we was in Wolf County, and um um we got a standing rule. A couple buddies come down, they mushroom hunt. Um, you it's all it's kind of a revolving door who's coming and who ain't. And um, we got a standing rule. I I supply the permethrin and all the bug sprays, put them on the porch and you know, spray down the night before and wear them, or you know, it's just a standing rule. And ever they've seen me, my everybody that works with me, and everybody that hunts with me, and they wear it. They don't want what I got, you know.
SPEAKER_00That's really great that you are able to have that kind of influence. I was that was that was a question I was going to ask you if people like roll their eyes at you or if they're or if they're on board. But um, I mean it's terrible that you've had to go through what you've gone through just to get everyone else to protect themselves, but it's really good that you're able to have that influence.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you do get the eye rollers, it's usually not people that are close to me, like um it's you you you run into people that you ain't seen in a long time or something like that somewhere, or hey, let's go to dinner. And I'm like, I can go to dinner, but you might have to go where I gotta go, you know. You know, you so you do get the eye rolls, but I'm you know what they can roll their roll their eyes all they want. This this tick is moving north so fast that you give it another five years where I live, and there'll be no eye rolling, they'll know it's real, you know. Wolf, Wolf County right now, they know it's real. Everybody does.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I guess in your hunting, have you have you changed because you still hunt? Is that yes?
SPEAKER_02I do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So what how has that changed the way you hunt or you know, what happens out in the field?
SPEAKER_02Early on, um, it was worse than it is now, you know. So um before I I really got all my histamines under control and and stuff like that, um I was I was very worried about uh uh game care, you know, of field dressing and um processing the meat and stuff. But I'm a very fortunate one when it comes to um things like dairy and cheese. And I can have I can have dairy and cheese. I I can't have a ton, but I can have some. So uh in processing the meat, it was the first time I harvested a deer after I was worried. I was worried. You know, I work outside, so my hands are pretty rough, and you know, I just took precaution by being very careful that I didn't splatter things all the way up, you know. I was very careful um in my in my preparation, which is somebody it hunts, they should be that way, they should treat the game that way, anyways. But um, so it it made things uh slower. The uh I I've been a I've been a deer hunter my entire life. I've been an outdoors person my whole life. So when I got this, I would I would my freezer, we kept it packed. I I made trips out west, elk hunting. Um I would whitetail hunt in Ohio and whitetail hunt in Kentucky. I would small game hunt. Um and um excuse me, um that freezer was always full of wild game. We bought very little. Um we never bought any steaks or anything like that. I mean, we would buy hamburger occasionally. My wife would be like, I'm gonna have some hamburger tonight instead of venison sauce. But um the big change was I couldn't eat it anymore. And in the first year or so, it was just man, it was such a it was just like I didn't want to do it because I didn't eat it. You know, sure I like a set of horns hanging on the wall, but the most important thing to me was that meat in the freezer. And um I just couldn't eat it. Um the the passion has come back. Uh you know, I don't know if the deer hunting passion is back like it used to be, but it's back. Um my kids, you know, where they're all in their uh mid-20s, they're starting families of their own. So like it's a good feeling to I harvest the deer, take it to the butcher shop, go back, pick it up. I divvy it up on the tailgate and drive it straight to my kids, and here you go. So they all got a bag of meat in the freezer, you know, and it's a good feeling, you know. They all eat it, you know. So um, it was a big life change for sure. I started bird hunting, is what I did. Um, to to I started geese hunting. Um and I was kind of mad at myself. It's so much fun that I was mad that I never had done it beforehand, you know. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, that's great that something new has come out of this. Um that there is yeah, yeah. After after after the struggle that you've that you've found something good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, so you said you uh haven't changed doctors, just thinking about healthcare in general. Um I oh go ahead.
SPEAKER_02So just just to clarify on that, I haven't changed doc. I'll go to the Same doctor's office, but I kind of see I'm kind of leaning toward another doctor that's there. There's five doctors in the office. They call up for an appointment, and you're like, well, who's open and this and that? I used to ask for one. Um and he was really trying to help for sure. Um, but it was like he took it seriously, but it didn't, it didn't he didn't take it super seriously. I I don't know how else to put it. Um and then you see and then you kind of see whoever, and um I I I got she shifted shifted over to Dr. Amy, and she's been out of sight, out of sight. She done some research, she um started trying to understand what's happened because they just don't know. They don't know. Right, you know, yeah. I've been a guinea pig, to say the least, for them up there. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. So I guess so. I guess because they don't really understand what's happening, and also like not to knock doctors, like they kind of have a lot that you know they're trying to keep track of. Oh yeah. And something new all the time. Like 100%, yeah. Uh, and then also like it hasn't really done us a great service that Alpha Gal syndrome has the nickname the red meat tick disease, because this is like the catchy thing, you know, this is the thing that makes people pay attention. Like, what do you mean I can't have my cheeseburgers, you know, like your doctor said to you? Um that that we really need to like shift the narrative about like this is much more than just you can't have you know bacon with your eggs in the morning. Um, so I don't know, is there something that you think you want doctors to really understand?
SPEAKER_02I wish they knew. I I you can tell them all day long the severity. When I got this, I had to change my cutting boards, new skillets. I mean, um uh the crock pot's one thing we didn't have to change, which kind of surprised me. But I don't know if it's maybe the glass or whatever, but I wish they understood the severity of it. The I say the same things all the time aqua fina water, dasani water, advil liquid gels, gummy bears, you know. I I know I wrote, but that's just the things that bounce off the top of my head. There's so many millions of things that has got mammal in it. And I just, you know, uh fill sugars, you know, filtered through bone char and um, you know, bleach flour. And we could both go on for days on that. I just wish that somehow you could get through to these doctors to understand the severity of of this. Two Advil liquid gels. Now, how much how much mammal meat is actually in them gel caps? You know, I mean look, think about how small they are. And you could take I could take two of them and my whole face would swell up. And you know, they're it's kind of why I kind of leaned over to Dr. Aim because she did take it a little more serious, you know. Um, not to say that the other doctor wasn't you're trying to be careful here and not throw anybody under the bus, you know. Um but yeah, I so I was in um Columbus uh with the Alpha Gao Alliance, the action fund here uh at the Senate House um a couple weeks ago. And they printed up um these beautiful folders for all the senators. Um and um there was a bunch of extras, and I snatched every one of them up. And I'm I'm hitting all the doctor's office, even the doctors I don't go to, I'm hitting all the doctor's offices locally, and I'm like, please, please let make just hand this to your doctors and uh make them read it, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good for you.
SPEAKER_02And it's just a few pages, but it's so informative, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I actually just went to the dentist this morning and um it's the second time I have seen this hygienist at this office. Um, but I'm in Alaska right now. So Alpha Gal syndrome, you know, they don't have lone star ticks here. Um if I were to see a dentist in Kentucky and say I have Alpha Gal syndrome, there's a better chance that someone's going to know what I'm talking about. Right. Um but so the hygienist said after I sat in the chair, she said, I was reviewing your chart before you came in, and uh I went and looked up this allergy. And then she asked me a series of super intelligent questions about it and about what like if she needed to change my treatment. And I was just so pleased with this. I was like, wow, this is I found the right, you know, at least the right dental professional, if not the right uh healthcare professional.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was um the crazy story. I was actually in the process of having some dental work done. You know, you make that visit and you come back and you go, you know, back and forth. I was in the process of having some dental work done when um I started having reactions. And um, I started calling dentists. I thought it was their fault. That was my first. I'm like, hey, something's happening. And they brought me in and and took this thing because you know, it's a and they took an x-ray, a complete x-ray of my whole head. They was looking for infection and all these things, and we're like, we have no idea. We have there, there's nothing, there's no signs of anything. I'm like, um, and finally, when I figured it out, um, you know, they can't use the numbing gel anymore. If you got to have a cavity, they can't use the numbing gel. Um, so you got to be tough and take the shot. Um, and um uh when I finally figured it out, um, the dentist was awesome. We um put our brains together, we found the right uh numbing uh numbing medication that they could use. And um uh uh they did they was awesome. The the dentist office was just out of sight when they figured out we figured out what was happening, and then I was able to proceed, but it was like uh early, early, or I did had no idea, had no idea what was happening with me, and I just needed somebody to blame.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, um, thanks very much for sharing your story. I mean, thanks for this podcast. It's been really interesting to hear, um interesting, also horrifying to hear, you know, the struggles of other people who love the outdoors um and uh whose love of the outdoors really has caused this issue. Um, but I just appreciate the education that you're offering to to listeners and now, you know, to the work that you're doing in your state house and and also just driving around town, dropping off um alpha gal information to to documents.
SPEAKER_02Well, it I mean somebody's got to advocate for us, you know. I mean, it it's we need to raise awareness um for sure. So um I don't so right now we're in episode 12. I interviewed William Winford, which is a mountain climb rock climber. He lives in Kentucky. Um which this episode will be June 1st, the twelve the this episode here, episode 12. But I'm I talked to him today. I'm gonna do a special drop. I'm gonna record him later this week, and we're gonna do a special drop. He contacted me today. I if I can't, there's no way I can say the word. Let me, he did text me too. So there's a there's a there's a disease that people get from ticks that is um uh it's a vector-borne illness, and it's related to Lyme mostly because Lyme, people don't know about alpha gal, they know about Lyme, right? Well, he never had Lyme, but he's got this and he just found out what it was. Um and um I wish I could it's it it's called um sarcatosis uh uh something like this. It's S-A-R-C-O-I-D-O-S-I-S. Um and he's not doing very well. Um, it attacks your organs and stuff. So if you're listening to this podcast right now, hopefully that special drop is out. You can stop, go back, listen to that, and then um, because he's gonna call me later this week. And I'm really worried about Will. Um yeah, so I won't go much farther because maybe that'll be out by by the time this one comes out. So um so tell me a little, you're in Alaska right now. Um I am um let's let's touch on Kentucky first. You love the gorge, right?
SPEAKER_00I do, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I've I've done a lot of traveling and um I hike everywhere I go. And so people are always asking me, what where's your favorite place to hike? And they're really surprised when I tell them it's the Red River Gorge in Kentucky because they're thinking I'm gonna say like some mountain range in Italy or something. Like it's not, it's the Red River Gorge in Kentucky for sure.
SPEAKER_02She's got a favorite hike or a favorite overlook?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, it kind of depends on the context, on the you know, the season and who is with me. If um if it's someone's first time in the gorge, I'm probably going to take them um up Indian staircase, uh, all the way to Cloud Splitter, if we can make it. And so that's a bit off our hike. Depends on, you know, how how intrepid these visitors are. Um my personal favorite, if I'm out by myself or, you know, um just out with people who've done it, who've been to the gorge before, I really love going up to Gray's Arch from the Martin's Fork trailhead. And it's not the it's not it's not the the trailhead right next to the arch. It's you've gotta you kind of gotta work for it. Um but that um it has beautiful creek bottom land and then a really great kind of scramble up to this overlook where you are sort of surrounded on all sides by like the walls of the gorge, and then and then you also get Gray's Arch, which is yeah, spectacular as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I'm uh I'm a big fan of Hanson's point. Oh yeah, it's it's it's hard to beat the view off of Hanson. My w my daughter and I, she is um she is 24 right now. Uh when she was about 22, her and I took a daddy-daughter weekend and went down just a hike. And um, we did we did Indian staircase around the cloud splitter. And dear old dad's butt was kicked by the time we was done. I took off I was leading, I was hiking the front, and then by the time we was back, all I could see was the bottom of her sandals. Yeah, yeah. But um, and then um uh Copper's falls, my wife and I went in last winter to to check out the um uh waterfall, and it was almost frozen to the ground. And as we're walking in, I'm like, was that thunder? We heard the biggest explosion. Was that thunder? That's weird. It's the middle of winter. And then some hikers come out and they're like, You just missed it. And we got we we went on up anyway, and it broke, and it was a gazillion pieces of ice. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that would have been a cool thing to see.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, they was right there when it came down. I could I would have given anything to see that, but so um, but you're in Alaska right now. What part of Alaska are you in?
SPEAKER_00Um, currently in Anchorage, and I have been coming to Alaska for the past two years. I came up originally to uh work with some friends on their farm here, and people are always like, Oh, there's farming in Alaska. I mean, yes, we can grow food all over the world. Um, and uh their farm is just outside of Palmer. So um that summer I spent time in kind of Palmer Anchorage area primarily. Um last summer I was in McCarthy and the Wrangle St. Elias National Uh National Park, and I was working with a nonprofit revitalizing their gardening program. Um and so since then, most of my time has been in and around Anchorage.
SPEAKER_02So um I'm sure the growing, I mean growing season's way shorter. Are you using, I mean, are you growing just like vegetables and what what are you growing?
SPEAKER_00Um uh up here, the there is a lot of um vegetable farming going on in the Matinouska Susitina Valley. Um it's sort of the area. I'm not looking at a map, so I might get this sort of wrong, but east, kind of east northeast of Anchorage, and um the at the Alaska State Fair, you know, at the state fair they always have like, oh, the biggest zucchini and the biggest, like whatever you've grown. There are cabbages like the size of toddlers, like at this, you know, yeah. Because the if you think about they're so far Alaska is so far north, and so this sort of uh latitude gets like 20 hours of daylight during the summer.
SPEAKER_02Oh, makes good sense.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and and the temperatures are fairly cool, so these um cool weather vegetables, the leafy greens, just like kind of go bonkers because it's the right temperature and so much daylight, and they get really adequate rainfall. Um so yeah, so cool weather crops really love it here. And then if you go further east to like the around the border with Canada, there's some grain crop, um some grains growing out there.
SPEAKER_02Uh and I would have never I I don't I would think I was with everybody else thinking you actually garden in in Alaska?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right, right. Yeah, and it's really sweet to see a lot of people um have tiny greenhouses in their backyards and you know just grow something. Um so that's that's a very cool thing.
SPEAKER_02Well, I can see that the the 20 hours of daylight is uh I can I can I understand that they this stuff probably does do well. Do you got to use any kind of a a hybrid seed or anything different? You just use regular, I mean, like we're putting tomatoes in the ground, you use the same, you growing beefsteaks or um well tomatoes, tomatoes are interesting.
SPEAKER_00I had last summer, um uh we had a greenhouse and I we got um I don't know, four or five different varieties of tomatoes. We had starts already just purchased from a nursery. And so, like if you're buying starts from a nursery in Alaska, you'd think that these things are like suited for the Alaskan climate. Um, they the the tomatoes did so poorly. I I can't so poorly. And um uh and so I used to tell people like they would come and look at the garden, and like everything else looked spectacular. Like I said, these greens are just like going totally going off, but like, and then people would be like, Oh, what's in the greenhouse? And I was like, No one is allowed in the greenhouse, that is where my shame lives. Like um, these tomatoes did so poorly, and everyone tells me, like, oh, I mean, it's really hard, especially out in McCarthy. But I know there was another gardener I became friends with out there, and he had absolutely no problem growing tomatoes in his greenhouse. So, whichever variety he used, and also just his magic touch, he understood it. Um, and and that's the thing, like, you know, I've been growing food since 2011, but never in a place like Alaska. So um uh it's totally learning curve for me here.
SPEAKER_02I bet so, yeah, yeah. Um, so um the uh do you do any hiking? I mean, you said you hike everywhere you go. I mean, what's it like there? I mean, you carry, uh, I'm sure you carry some bear spray.
SPEAKER_00And I always have bear spray at the ready, yeah. Um uh yeah, actually, I've come to enjoy carrying bear spray even in areas where there are no bears because it's just like this security blanket kind of. Um, and I thought I there was I was in Washington, suburban Washington, actually, suburban and accordis, Washington. And I thought I was going to have to spray a dog with bear spray um that came after me and the little fluffy white dog that I was walking, and I was like, oh, absolutely not. Um, but thankfully I did not have to use the bear spray on this much larger, kind of vicious dog. Um, so yeah, I definitely carry bear spray. You know, the rule is you should never hike alone. And um, I mean, that's a good rule anywhere, but also I really enjoy my alone time and I do hike alone sometimes. So here I have started um putting a podcast or like an audio book on my phone and just playing it out loud, like not headphones or anything. Oh, so that there's so there's some kind of noise going on. Um, because the deal is, you know, I mean, if bears or moose hear you coming, they're most likely going to get out of your way, unless, you know, uh unless they think you are a danger to their child or to their food source.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're probably not far. Let's see. You're probably not far from moose calving season, I would think, too. You're probably getting kind of close to calving season. This is April, maybe. Um, yeah, because I know um the uh I we got my my we've been we've been traveling to Canada for a long time, which is still not far or still plenty far from Alaska, but there's moose on the island where we go, and in the summertime when they're calves, you don't like people will drive because they know where they feed, but you don't get out of the car because they're mean.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, I I know many people up here who say they are far more afraid of moose than they are of bears.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And I think that surprises a lot of people, but they yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure. So um, your hikes up there, are they um um is it flat? Are they is it flat in your area? What's it like? What's the landscape like right there?
SPEAKER_00You can find bits and pieces of flat, um, mostly, mostly not a whole lot of flat. Um, also it depends on you know your hiking partners and you know what their what their interests are. There are some people here who are only interested in bagging peaks and some people who are just out for the for the joy of being out. So um I uh I try to do a combination of these things. Um today I'm going to go on a hike when we are finished recording here. And um I think our trail has like, I don't know, not quite 700 feet of elevation gain. So over like two miles, um, which is that's that's pretty mild. Um I try to keep it at less than a thousand miles of, or I'm sorry, less than a thousand feet elevation. Yeah, yeah, a thousand feet of elevation gain per mile. Um besides that, it just gets too too darn steep. Um, sometimes you can convince me to go bigger than that, but then it just becomes less fun. Um, particularly for like days afterward when I'm like, wow, my calves, like why did I do that? Um so yeah, but there's definitely some of my favorite hikes here are uh have been in the valleys because especially in fall, um you know, I mean in New England, people like that's the place you're supposed to go in the fall to see the to see the leaves. But here there's so much ground cover that changes color in the fall. It's not just the trees, um, and there just aren't a ton of um, you know, we have really beautiful aspens. Um, but ground covers just make it um this sort of, I don't know, muted rainbow across the across the whole landscape. And so to be in the valleys at that point, I just think uh some of the valley hikes have been my favorites.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sounds amazing. That's uh Alaska's on my list. I uh I think I got a few years before I can make it up, but um it's definitely on my list. Um uh my wife and I are heading to Vermont. Um I think um July, this July, I think is when we're going. We're going to Vermont this year. Um and um I've never been to Vermont, you know. I've been to upstate New York, uh, which I don't think is very far away, but we're going up. But it ain't gonna be late enough to catch any color for sure. Um so um anything else outdoors up there that you uh uh that I would be interested in?
SPEAKER_00Um well, I mean, certainly there's hunting, plenty of um, plenty of hunting, uh also fishing, you know, when the salmon runs come in, um the there's so much fishing. Uh that I was able to do last year that I just encourage everyone to do because I do I feel like it's like a life-changing situation is um, I mean, I was lucky enough to live uh just outside the Wrangle St. Elias National Park, and there are glaciers there. Um, and there's actually there's all these statistics about the who has the most glaciers and the biggest glaciers and whatever. Wrangle St. Elias is pretty much at the top for many of those statistics. And um, there's a really accessible glacier called the Root Glacier. It's uh you have to hike out about two and a half miles. The first two miles, extremely straightforward. The last half mile gets kind of dicey, and then you're on this ancient piece of ice. Um, and to stand out there is just something that I mean, really before last summer, I just don't know that it ever occurred to me this was a thing I could do. And um, so you know, we go spend the day out there, and I was able to go ice climbing on the glacier, like that's crazy. Um, uh we went backpacking across the glacier. Uh, I was able to fly out with um three friends. We got in a like a bush plane and flew out uh to a place called the Foss and then backpacked back across two glaciers um to get home. Like wow, that sounds awesome! Oh my gosh, completely, yeah. Like this is why I'm saying this is like life changing stuff. I just didn't even know I would be able to do that. And um uh there it was. So, yeah, all of these things I often say too, like people. Are like, oh, I'm not whatever, I'm not adventurous like you. Like, it doesn't matter. I mean, you're just I go to the grocery store and I have to stop when I walk out because I'm like, oh, there's mountains there. I just have to stand here and look at that. Like, I often say, like, they just leave these things on the side of the road for anyone to look at, like you know, yeah, you're just um a road trip anywhere means like it's gonna take you at least, you know. Um you gotta take a scenic route.
SPEAKER_02They're all the scenic route, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's all the scenic route, it's gonna take you half again as much time as what your Google map says, though, because you're gonna have to keep stopping to like get out and like gawk at something.
SPEAKER_02So it's April 29th, it's 7:20 where I'm at, so it's uh 420 there. 320.
SPEAKER_00320.
SPEAKER_02320. Okay, so what's the temperature right now there?
SPEAKER_00Um, I today was supposed to be in the like upper 40s. Um and so, and it's been mostly sunny today, although we did have about 15 minutes of sleet. Um so yeah, so that's so that's always fun. That I say the forecast is merely a suggestion. Um and like when I go hiking later, I'm definitely bringing my rain gear and like my puffy coat. Um just in case, because yeah, for sure. Just don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you what uh about like uh uh restaurants and places up there in Alaska when you go. Um do you just kind of be very careful or do you explain or explain your uh a trip to the restaurant up there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, it depends. Sometimes I'm just very careful, sometimes I go into the whole explanation. Um, and typically, well, one, it'll depend on like what's on the menu, you know, like if this looks like if there's plenty of food that I can eat that I feel comfortable, like yeah, you know, this is fine. I'll just go ahead and eat it. Um if it's a really meat-heavy menu, or if I want something that I need some kind of modification, I will explain. Like I cannot have bacon on this sandwich because and um uh and actually I was in Oregon um over the winter. Uh and I went to I got so excited about this, Robert. I went to this Cuban bakery for breakfast because they had a sandwich that was um sweet plantains, guava cream sauce, um eggs, I don't remember what else, and and bacon. Um, so it must have been some kind of cheese and bacon, and they pressed it like at like a panini in Cuban bread. And I'm I'm reading this online and I'm actually like salivating, and I was like, I'm so excited. I love plantain so much, and like let's what am I doing in Alaska? I love plantain so much, and um uh I was so excited about the sandwich. And I went in and I ordered and I said, but no bacon. And then I said, I am allergic to bacon. Yeah, and the the guy who was ringing me up, he stopped and he said just to bacon. And I was like, I'm allergic to pork and beef. I was like all mammalian, yeah, yeah. He said, and he said, There's lard in our bread. And I was like, Oh man, just just what would have happened if I hadn't said I'm allergic to bacon, if I just said no bacon, please, you know, right? And I was like, Oh my gosh, what do they do for like this is Oregon, so like you know, Alpha Gal syndrome isn't a thing there yet. Um, right, but what do they do for like vegetarians and like people who, for religious reasons, reasons are not eating pork? That was kind of upsetting to me.
SPEAKER_02There's so many people walking around that think that they're vegan and they're carrying around a bottle of aquafina and taking them Advil liquid gels and then feeding their kids gummy bears. They're not vegan, they think they are, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, we could say the same for farming practices. That's been a thing I've talked about for a long time. That, like, you know, when folks who um I appreciate anyone who has any kind of thought about the the food that they consume, um, you know, as someone who works in food systems, I just I think it is it's vital that we understand where our food comes from and and how 100%.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And um uh and yet people who like want are say they're vegan because they don't believe that we should be exploiting animals for their products, like I understand that, and I totally respect their decision. And also, like, did the farm where you bought those carrots use like manure as fertilizer? Like, you know, there's just not a complete picture of yeah, right of yeah, where and so yeah, when when you when you get alpha alpha gal syndrome, like the picture becomes much more complete.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. My wife is like um she eats meat, uh, but she really appreciated the venison because she's not a fan of uh like if we had if we uh uh had beef, um which we didn't buy much of, but um she would try to find like the um grass raised and you know she just she and I get it 100%. There was a turt chicken farm hour or so north of us that they closed down. It was all over national news, guy kicking chickens going in. And I mean, it's just it's terrible, it's terrible. So I totally 100% understand. You know, that's why I felt so good about stocking that freezer with wild game. You know, um, I knew I knew everything about I knew the farm where it lived, I knew what it ate, I knew when I harvested and how long it went from there to the freezer. I mean, it was there was no better, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No better. Yeah. And I try to do that still, you know, with birds, uh, pheasant and geese, and it takes a lot of geese to make what one deer would make. You know, I guess that's true.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So um Lisa, I've got a great, it's been a great talk. Um, I hope you got all the information that you need.
SPEAKER_00Um I think it's yes, I appreciate very much uh your your interest in talking to me for my project, and I'm glad I could glad I could come on here and um help you with yours too.
SPEAKER_02Well, you have my phone number, so if there's anything else that I can do during this project or yours, you definitely give me a call. So I uh if you've watched the podcast, you've seen that I usually end with one question, and that's an alpha gal surprise. Um uh give us your biggest alpha gal surprise.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm I mean it's hard to say the biggest because isn't there like something new all the time that's like whoa.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, every other day's the biggest.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Um, the um I guess you know, you talk a lot about the the bottled water, which is also shocking. Like, how on earth do we have water that is not again? Um, but so I think my biggest surprise was it came last summer. I was watching a webinar from the University of Kentucky, which is really I thought it was a great webinar. Um, and that's where I learned about the bottled water, about toilet paper, that toilet paper can be um processed using. I don't know if it's bone char or if it's gelatin. There's something in certain brands of toilet paper. Yeah, this is horrifying. Um, and um, and then I don't know if this came from the UK webinar, from the University of Kentucky webinar, or if this was just something that I came across somewhere else. But also that beer can be brewed using, I think it's gelatin as a clarifier. Um, or there's something that they use as a clarifier, maybe it's not gelatin, but um that makes me think about um I when I lived in Lexington, Kentucky, and I very first had Alpha Gal. I might not have even known I had it at this point yet. I lived um just a few blocks away from a brewery that had this really delicious dark beer that I just loved, some kind of porter. And um, goodness, I would get so sick after drinking one beer. And uh, you know, this was like 10 years ago. And I was like, oh my gosh, am I now so old I can't even stop drinking a beer, like one beer, one beer, and I'm this sick. But um then I uh I recently like within the past year came to understand like, oh no, it is the way that beer was processed. That is why I could not drink that beer in particular.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, one thing you probably can't get it there, but you can in Kentucky is Country Boy. And uh right, I did do some uh uh research. Now, this has been, I can't tell you 100% because this has been like early on, but I did research Country Boy, and um I think all their beers, but one or maybe two was uh vegan. Um and and uh shotgun wedding was one of them.
SPEAKER_00So I was excellent.
SPEAKER_02I was very happy to know that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I was a beer drinker, that was that definitely would have been on would have been on the border.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure, for sure. Um Elisa, it's been great talking to you. Um, I wish you the best on this project. And if you need anything, you give me a call for sure, okay?
SPEAKER_00That sounds great. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02You're very welcome. I'm gonna shut this off here if I can. Thanks for tuning in to Alpha Gal Dorsman. Make sure to hit that follow button until we meet again. We're your ticker fella.