Episode 15. Jenna Olcott

Episode 15. Jenna Olcott.  Jenna talks about her AGS  while living the farm life. Raising cattle and a family.  Plus raising emus for her personal protein. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Alpha Galdoorsman Podcast, where we talk all things Alpha Gal and all things outdoors. Everything from hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, canoeing, kayaking, jeeping, off-roading, even gardening. I'm your host, Robert Worley. Hey y'all, welcome back to another episode of Alpha Gal Outdoorsman. As the intro just said, I am your host, Robert Worley. Um I got a first on today. Um got a guest from Missouri, um, which is a first for me. I'm gonna put a I'm gonna put a thumbtack in that uh state. Um, but before we get started here, I got a couple quick quick announcements. Um first announcement is an update on House Bill 578 for Ohio, and that is the update is there is no update. Um, it's the world of politics. So the House bill is now in the Senate Health Committee, uh, just like it was for our last episode. It hasn't moved. Um now I will say that today's date is June 25th, and uh this episode will come out on July the 15th. Um so I don't I really don't foresee anything happening by July 15th because I think they're going on summer break. I don't know how long that is, but um it still looks positive. Uh the chair of the health committee in the Senate is uh we've already spoken with him on the phone. I've been on the phone with him personally myself, and he supports the bill, so it looks good. And with that being said, I have a guest from Missouri. I will say that I have been in contact with Representative Matthew Overcast from Missouri, and they have House Bill 2372 that has passed the House and has passed the Senate and is laying on their governor's desk. Now, I don't know, maybe our guest today will know a little about that bill. I don't know anything about it yet, but I'm hoping to have an update with him. Uh, we was gonna have a he was gonna give me enough time to have a brief conversation um about the House bill and uh tell me the benefits uh you know uh for Alpha Gal, uh whether it's labeling or uh mandatory reporting or or both. We'll we'll see. Um but I haven't been able to get that patched up yet. So uh hopefully our guests can help us today. So without any further ado, our guest today is Jenna Olcott. She's did I say that right, Jenna?

unknown 2:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

So Jenna Olcott from Missouri, and she's a farmer and an avid outdoorsman. Looks like she does a lot of hiking and camping and so forth and so on. So hello, Jenna.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Hello, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

You're very welcome. I'm glad you're here. So uh before we get too started, why don't you tell us a little about yourself, uh, you know, whereabouts in the state you live and so forth, married, kids, the whole nine yards.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

So I live, um, I'm in Lawson, Missouri, which it's a small town. So probably the best way to put it is I'm about 45 minutes northeast of Kansas City, um, or just south of Cameron, Missouri, if you know where that is. Um, we have a 60-acre farm and we rent an additional 40 acres next to us and run cattle and goats on it, and then also just have some chickens and turkeys and random fowl like that. We have added emus into our farm since get since myself getting alpha gal. Um I am like I said, I am married, have four kids, so I'm the only one in my house that has alpha gal, but it has definitely affected everyone else here, in addition to just myself.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, without a doubt, I'm sure it has. Um, how long have you had Alpha Gal?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

I I was bitten. I had a Lone Star Tick in 2019. I can't really remember exactly at what point in 2019. I do distinctly remember having it because I found it in the morning and like had thought, like, oh, how gross this tick has been on me since yesterday, most likely. Um, and it was a lone star tick. It itched the tick spot, probably itched for two months after I pulled it. Didn't really notice anything initially after that, other than it just itched. I didn't think much of it because it didn't look red or anything. Um, but then it was December of 2019 when I had my first anaphylaxis experience at a high school music program right before Christmas, which was real great for all of us to go through. Not really the ideal place. Yeah. Um, and so then it was early 2020 when I really started noticing like digestive issues. Um, and it just kind of kept spiraling from there, worse and worse. And then also being in the midst of COVID didn't help um matters at all because it took longer to get into doctors. Um, but really for me in the beginning, it was a lot of GI issues. I didn't even think about that first anaphylaxis experience as part of what was going on because I'd never had experienced an allergic reaction prior to that. And so I just thought it was a weird isolated event and had brushed it aside. Um, but I started dealing with a lot of stomach pain, particularly like by my gallbladder, which is what led me to go to the doctor. Um, they did several, they did an ultrasound, and I think it was called a HIDA scan. I don't know if I'm saying that right on my gallbladder that measures the function of your gallbladder, how well it's emptying, and everything was perfect. They're like, your gallbladder's fine, but they still could not figure out what was going on with me. So at that point, my doctor referred me to a surgeon because he's just like, Well, it's got to be your gallbladder. The surgeon was like, Well, your gallbladder seems fine, but I think we should go ahead and remove it because it would probably help. And at that point, I was like, You literally just said my gallbladder is working fine. And he said, Wouldn't it be nice to be able to eat spaghetti and not feel so sick afterwards?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

And that point, I was just like, This is crazy. Like, this just wasn't to me, something wasn't right. Nothing kind of added up. And then we were actually camping down in South Missouri, probably a good 30 minutes from even an urgent care. Had tacos for dinner about 10 o'clock that night, woke up full-blown anaphylaxis again. Um, which was again, like I feel like I managed to have my worst um reactions in the least ideal places. Um, that one, camping and anaphylaxis is not a great combo. Yeah, but that's really kind of what got the ball rolling, and then got me in with a GI specialist who thought I had GERD that still didn't work, had anaphylaxis again, and that got me to an allergist who ended up diagnosing me in 2021. It was in November. Oh, wow. Yeah. So almost a good, I mean, just shy of two years from the first time I had anaphylaxis to when I was actually diagnosed with alpha gal.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Is your anaphylaxis was it breathing or was it a different something symptom?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

So when I have anaphylaxis, it starts with I I usually am having extreme stomach pain leading up to it. And then the first telltale sign for me is my hands and feet start itching and and burning. It's just like this excessive, hot itch in the palms of my hands and my feet. And then from there, I go into full body hives, swollen lips, um coughing, stomach issues. The the worst one ever, I right before I was diagnosed, like my blood pressure must have been low because I was like getting dizzy trying to get up. Um, luckily, and even my doctor said because I I did not have an epipin at that point, took Benadryl, and he was like, You are extremely lucky that Benadryl took care of that for you. He's like, That was a really scary episode.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah. So Yeah, you I'm sure you got epipins now, right? We all tend to pack them around.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

We all have epipins, yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yeah. So you went two years. Uh how many times was you in anaphylaxic before you was diagnosed?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Three or four times.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

In between that very first one in diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Since you've been diagnosed and learned, have you been in anaphylaxic since then?

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yes. Multiple times or just um three three times since 2021.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Wow. So um let's back up for just a second. So you got diagnosed, you finally got to a specialist that diagnosed you with alpha gal, but how was your other doctors? Did you go back to your primary physician after that?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yes. So my primary was great. Like I, and also like with it being COVID, there were several times where I had called him on the phone at the office. Um, and I remember one very distinct conversation where I had told him, I'm like, maybe this doesn't have anything to do with whatever's going on. I'm like, but my knuckles hurt so bad. I'm like, I don't have arthritis, but it feels like how people describe arthritis. I'm like, my knuckles hurt so bad, especially at night. And he said, none of this makes any sense. And at that point I thought, I'm like, either I am losing my mind or I have just something completely crazy wrong with me. And ironically, I had come across Alpha Gal in a Google search, searching my symptoms, and honestly thought it seemed like a bogus article. Because nobody had heard of it at that point.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, yeah. Um, so the the doctor was very helpful after that, but did he what was his knowledge level like? Did he know anything or was he learning with you?

SPEAKER_02 9:50

He was learning with me. Um, he had sent me to an allergist after the third time I had had anaphylaxis pre-diagnosed. The allergist knew of Alpha Gal and knew to test for it. He had specifically asked if I had had a tick bite. And I thought, like, I mean, living in the Midwest, who hasn't had a tick bite?

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

I, you know, and so when it came back, Alpha Gal, even my husband was like, There's no way, like, you live on a cattle farm, we eat beef all the time. Um, but going back into my primary, it was he was like, every time I've been there, he's like, Tell me, you know, if you've learned anything new about Alpha Gal, because I was his first patient to have it. Um, he's asked a lot of questions, never questioned anything that I've said has been a symptom, like has been a very good um listener and always open to everything that I have had to say about Alpha Gal since diagnosis. So we really it was learning the process for both of us.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, yeah. So let me ask you about your hands. So uh not necessarily the joint pain, but you say they burn bad. Uh, have you ever had any blisters come up on them?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

No, just hives. It is like um so when I have anaphylaxis, my fingers will swell, but like it starts like in the palm of my hand and it is it's like this hot, searing, itchy pain. And I've heard other people describe their anaphylaxis the same way that they can kind of feel it coming on in their hands first. And I usually my hives will then start like at my wrist and spread from there.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

A reason I ask is because um uh the the the the lady from Canada, Leanne's her name, um, one of her symptoms is the palms of her hands get uh that you know, and I didn't she called them blisters. I wonder if they're hives, and she's not a hundred percent sure. Um and when you said your hands, it's just it's it's kind of funny how doing this podcast how things come together like this. Like I've been talking with her for the past uh month over her uh symptoms, her possible diagnosis because it's Canada. Uh is it true? Is it not true? They I she sent me the results, it is the right test. Um she tested um uh.35, uh I think's what it was, which is a positive. Um so um, but it's interesting that you you brought that up. Um so I want to ask you, have you since uh the diagnosis, your anaphylaxics that you've had, have you had to use your EpiPen?

SPEAKER_02 12:28

No, I I have my doctor had personally said to always try Benadryl first. I know that there is some controversy with that, that um that groups that deal with, I can't think of the word I'm looking for, um it is recommended to use your EpiPen first if you suspect anaphylaxis. I am out in the country. Um, my doctor had said if I first time I use an EpiPen, I need to go to the hospital after using it. The two recent times when I should have used it post-diagnosis, it was just me and my kids here at the house. I really didn't want to put them through driving their mother to the hospital. Um, and so I have always tried Benadryl first. Should I have used the EpiPen? Absolutely. If I was talking to someone else, I would say use your EpiPen first. Um, I was just worried about my kids having to take me to the hospital at 11 o'clock at night. And I thought if I can get this taken care of again with Benadryl like I had in the past, then I need to try that first. Well, I think our medical recommendation.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yeah, yeah. Well, neither one of us are doctors. I always try to say that. But um, I I I I think our you know I don't think, I know our allergies much different than others. Um I agree. And you know, so what works for other allergies, uh not necessarily the right call for us. So I think you're Benadrill. I think for you, you keep doing you for sure. I do like the advice of don't be afraid of that epipen. I've had multiple guests say the same thing. Don't be afraid of that epiphen. If you're getting to that point, use it. Um so uh you live on you uh you're you're 100 acres, so you're but you're you're cattle farmer, and then I think you said goats as well, is that correct? Yes. When do you have any kind of like an airborne or being around uh the the the livestock, does it affect you in any way?

SPEAKER_02 14:29

It does. Um prior to like realizing that actually being around cattle affects me, like after diagnosis and you cut out meat, you kind of start hearing about other things that alpha gal can cause, like fume reaction to cooking meats. And so I had ex I noticed that if like if we were cooking sausage or something or bacon, like I was having respiratory reactions to that. So I knew that respiratory reactions were a possibility. Um, hadn't quite put two and two together with being around the cattle, actually causing a problem until we were up working cattle one day. We had had a cow that had a calf stuck and my husband needed help pulling it. And I mean, anybody that lives with animals will tell you like when you have a situation like that, you don't typically stand back and be like, Well, I might start coughing and get itchy. Like, you just you jump in and react.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

You get everybody gets yeah, everybody gets involved. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

So I had gloves on, um, helped pull the calf, end up being twins. So it was a little bit of a longer process than normal. And I had gotten amniotic fluid on my arms, and my eyes were very itchy, and I was coughing a little bit and hadn't in the moment hadn't connected all three symptoms together. Sure. Look down at my arms and where they had been, um, where the amniotic fluid had gotten on them. They were, I had like this just bright red, thick rash. Almost looked like if you got hot water on your arm and scalded yourself. And so I'm coughing and my eyes are itchy, and just all of a sudden my head was like, Oh my gosh, like, I think that this is from Alpha Gal from being up so up close to the animal, having amniotic fluid on me, and then just with the manure and the bodily fluids and airborne things, breathing that in. And so I came inside, washed off, and within like 30 minutes after coming in, I just I felt like my whole like system just went like, ah, like calm back down. And I'm like, well, that's weird. And so then I start kind of looking into it more and had found the Facebook page Alpha Gal for farmers and ranchers, and that was extremely helpful um because you kind of get some step-by-step guides on what to do when you find out you have Alpha Gal when it comes to food and things like that, but you don't think about outside influences like cattle and working with them. So I I knew knew from then on, like amniotic fluid definitely is a no-no, and started paying attention more to how I physically felt um and was breathing just being around the cattle in general.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah. So, but but so I'm I can I can a hundred percent see where that um, you know, the fluids and the blood and whatever. But the uh if you just go to the barn and feed, are you are you usually pretty good if you just like go to the barn and feed?

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I if it is muddy up there, if it is wet, it definitely bothers me a lot more. Um seems like I get more of a reaction to the manure when it's fresh or wet versus dry. So we um do rotational grazing. So we only have a couple cows that we're ever feeding out for butcher up in the lot. And so my husband or kids are the ones that take care of feeding everybody. I am able to step back and not have to help near as much anymore. Um, there's always kind of an emergency situation where I do have to step in and do something. Um, but we've realized that even we were hauling cattle one day and I was riding along, and my husband got in the truck and he had manure on his boots. And I mean, it just starts like itching on my face, my nose, my eyes itch, and then I was coughing to the point where like I could not stop coughing. And it was so bad he had to pull over and take his shoes off on the side of the highway and put them in the back of the truck and drive barefoot to the sale barn. So I know that and with other farmers and ranchers talking to them, like you know you know your triggers and you know how to um prevent them or steps to take to reduce exposure. And so for me, it's staying away from fresh manure, amniotic fluids, bodily fluids from the animal. Um, but like I said, we had a calf born early this year when it was cold out. She came early and it was just my kids home, and the calf had to come into the mud room for a while to warm up, and so it was very hard to limit uh my exposure to it being in the mud room of the house.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. That's country life right there for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

It and it, yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yeah. I um I I've been a big game hunter my whole life, and um uh just thinking about you pulling that calf. And a lot of people don't understand that. I do understand that I'm kind of raised country, um, but um I remember the first time I had to field dress a deer. I was like, it it I and it was like, what do I do? I just gotta get in there. I was very careful, went very slow. Um, and uh, but I was very fortunate it didn't affect me. It didn't affect me. So I'm very fortunate there for sure. Um, you mentioned uh emus. So yes, uh uh before you got emous, had you ordered any and tried it?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

I had. I had ordered um both ostrich and emu online um and just tried it kind of in small amounts. And then, like I said, we've always we always have a few cattle that we're raising for butcher that we sell and we keep one for ourselves, and so we've always had a whole deep freezer of farm-raised meat for us. And I was buying all this meat for myself, and one day just kind of thought I think we could probably do this ourselves. And we actually started with an ostrich um and had that here on the farm, raised it for a while, and had to self-process it because so many small butchers are not um USDA regulated to butcher fowl. So a lot of people a lot of people that do raise ostrich and emu struggle finding a place where they can take it and get it butchered that's within a close proximity to where they live.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

So how much uh so you've butchered the the ostrich, how much meat did you get off? How many pounds do you think you got?

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Um, we estimate it to be about 75 pounds of meat. Um it was it was definitely a learning process. Um, for all of us, there's not a good you can't just really Google, like, how do you butcher an ostrich? And so we just knowledge from we've processed chickens and turkeys ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Years back, we actually processed our own hog. And so I felt like between the knowledge of the two, we should be able to figure out how to process an ostrich. And we bought a meat grinder and the kids all helped, and we just kind of had an assembly line and took care of all of it. But I ended up getting about 75 pounds of meat off of the ostrich, and it lasted me two years.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Is that right? That's awesome. That is awesome. Yeah, we used to when uh we used to butcher all of our own deer, and um uh we we would before as season come in, we would set the garage up. Uh, I know a lot of people can't relate. We'd set the garage up, and uh it's where the butcher tables was at, the grinders, and we would call it beer deer. And we would stuff all my buddies would come over, my hunting buddies, and we would butcher the deer. We'd put the George Foreman out there, we'd have a few beers and And beer and deer. And we'd have uh beer and deer phase one, beer and deer phase two, depending on how good the season was.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

But uh we used to call that beer deer camp.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Yeah, yeah. I I do I miss that. I miss that for sure. Yeah. Now the emu, um, have you butchered any emus yet?

SPEAKER_02 22:17

So that is on the agenda uh between now and the next two weeks. So I am right at the very end of the ostrich meat, and so we're going to butcher an emu. And in my mind, it should be very similar, process, just smaller scale. I believe you get about 25 to 30 pounds of meat off of an emu.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

So I got you. Yeah, yeah. Uh, do you got a preference, the ostrich or the emu?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

I like ostrich better. Um, when I've had emu, the way I describe it to my friends and family was that it was like beef if you also had a little bit of deer mixed in with it. To me, I felt like it had just a subtle gamey taste to it. Um, we butchered, we'd processed our own deer in the past too. And I think that has kind of like put me off on the gamey taste over time. And so I didn't really like that in the emu. Um, since we have an emu that needs to be butchered, we're gonna give it another shot. I don't I'm hoping that it'll be just fine.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

So yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah, I I order them, I order um some ostrich and emu, but like you said, it's just so expensive, you know. Um, there's a new farm, and I wish I could remember the name of it. I probably should have written it down. Uh, there's a new farm in um Kentucky, that uh a new uh emu farm. And um, there's a few locations down there, which I'm in southwest Ohio. Um, and if you listen to the podcast, I spend a ton of time. But my wife and I are going down for a backcountry hunters and anglers event in between Lexington and Louisville this week or this weekend, and um there's a new farm down there, and they got uh they distribute the emu uh meat through a couple different places down there. So I'm gonna try to round some up while I'm there. Um and I do like the ostrich better, the fillets, oh man.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

So good.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Oh, yeah. The emu's really good too. Don't don't get me wrong, but but it's like it's um it's even more like deer. Um and I I've I've been a deer hunter, elk hunter my whole life. But if somebody tells you they'd rather have a big deer steak than a T-bone or fillet, they're crazy, they they're they're lying. They're making it up.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

I've never heard anybody say that.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, they're making it up. Yeah. Um, so I've been taking notes a little bit on questions. So everybody else in your family, nobody else's has Alpha Gal, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Nope, nobody has it. Um, my my kids, I will say, I feel like they are a little scared. Like, what if I get it one day? Because you do hear stories about families where a parent and several kids have it. I know you mentioned Matthew Overcast in Missouri. I believe he has several kids that have Alpha Gal. Um so yeah, I that is what I think kind of lit his fire to introduce the Alpha Gal bill in Missouri. Um, so I do think that that makes my kids think more like, oh my gosh, what if I get it? A little bit worried that they have maybe a higher chance of getting it than somebody else just because their mom does. I don't know if that's actually a real concern or not, uh, medically speaking, but it definitely is on their mind anytime they get a tick.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Well, I think it's a good thing that they're a little scared because you know and I know that they don't want it. They don't want it. I don't want to see them get it. I'm I'm speaking with a young lady right now in Kentucky, uh Hi Heinman, Kentucky, that's got a 13-year-old son that just came down with it. So I've been chatting with her a little bit recently, and we're going to probably have her on the podcast here in a few few episodes away. So uh if if um so do you understand what House Bill 2372 is, what what it changes? Do you understand that?

SPEAKER_02 26:04

I do. So when it was originally introduced, um, it was to it was mandatory reporting for Alpha Gal. I believe when they had finally got it passed through earlier this year, they had tacked it on with another bill um that had to do with Lyme disease to help push the two through. I don't know about the Lyme part of it, but it is for mandatory reporting for Alpha Gal in the state of Missouri. Um, we had attended the Alpha Gal Awareness Day at the state capitol back in January, and someone had asked, like, how do they take into account all of the currently diagnosed cases to get an accurate count on how many people in Missouri are affected by Alpha Gal. And so there would have to be some sort of um like self-reporting for people that have already been diagnosed so they can really see how Missouri is affected by Alpha Gal.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah, yeah. Uh and I'm in Southwest Ohio, and what we hear here about you guys out there is that you guys are blown up out there.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Uh, is that true or it seems like it, but it also seems like it's much more prevalent in South Missouri. I mean, there are cases of it up here in the northern part of Missouri, but I know of one other person who has it, and it is like a friend's aunt's cousin who has it. So I don't even directly know the person, my doctor. Um, I know they've had one other local case since me, uh, and that's going all the way back to 2021 when I was diagnosed. So there's not a lot of it here in northwest Missouri, but the south part of the state, it is it is very prevalent.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Yeah, yeah. So if you go like where I'm at, now it's here. The Lone Star Tick is definitely here. Um, but we I've mentioned Kentucky several times. We have a we we spent a lot of time, it's called Red River Gorge, Natural Bridge Area. Uh, it's in Kentucky, it's in eastern Kentucky. Um it's incredible how I mean you go down there and you mention Alpha Gal, it's it's it's very common. I mean, everybody knows what it means. Everybody where I live, when I got it, there was people like there's no such thing. What's what's he making stuff up? He don't want to come to dinner with us. I mean, I've heard I've heard every excuse there was, you know. Now, and I am not kidding, um, just since so I kind of helped store, I kind of I I helped a little with getting House Bill 578 rolling, which is mandatory reporting here in Ohio. And um it is blown up on the news. When when House Bill 578 got written, nobody heard nothing about it. And then it's just like in the past five to six months or so, it's blown up. It's on the news every day, which is awesome, which is absolutely awesome, you know. Um so I'm glad to hear that. Hopefully, I can get a short conversation with Matthew on the phone. I know them guys are busy guys, but uh we've messaged back and forth for a couple of days uh talking about this. So it did start out as I think uh House bill or Senate bill 1855.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

1855, yep. Yeah, and then he introduced it. I think he introduced it first um last year. I think it took a good year to go through. I think that they had to make some adjustments. So I know, like you had said, you're working on it in Ohio. I think you guys will eventually get there. Just definitely it's a process, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah. Well, they already had Lyme and Rocky Mountain spotted fever. So one good thing for us is the system's already in place. So if you go to the doctor and you got Lyme or Rocky Mountain spotted fever, they got so all we're doing really is tack and alpha gal onto that. Um in theory, they've done the numbers. The state of Ohio would have to hire one more employee, full-time employee, if it's even that much to keep up with the new reporting. So it's a very minimal expense if you if you figure statewide. So um I think I've well uh one more question before we move on to some outdoorsy stuff. Um you you got a family, you got a large family, and you are your cattle farmers, and I'm tell me what a typical dinner time or breakfast time is is in your house. I mean, are you cooking uh is everything alpha guy friendly across the board? Are you cooking hamburgers and then you're having something else?

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Or I would say my family, it's still they're big beef eaters still. Um, so typically for us, I will cook ostrich for me if we are doing um tacos or spaghetti. I'll cook a pound of ostrich. I will save a quarter of it for dinner that night, and then I will freeze the rest of it, rest of the ground ostrich, so I have it for spaghetti for another night or whatever. So I I cook myself what I need and then freeze leftovers. That way, when we have beef another night, I already have my food prepped. Um, if it's something that I'm more fume reactive to, then my kids come up and they help cook dinner. That way I can kind of step back and not have to be in the room. Yeah, yeah. Use separate pans, um, separate cooking surfaces, like all those steps are in place where we have to prevent cross-contamination, but they still get to eat beef anytime they want to. I feel like we've made enough um changes in our lives that it wouldn't be fair to everybody to switch over to ostrich and we'd be butchering a lot of ostriches. That was the case. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you got it worked out. Did you uh did you have to change your skillets and pans? And um, did you have to change all that or buy new for you?

SPEAKER_02 32:03

So I have my own cast iron skillets that I cook if I'm doing ostrich or whatever for me inside that I cook my stuff in. Um, they have their separate pans, regular stuff, you know, like just your pan for cooking macaroni and things like that. We just wash stuff good and it's fine. But um skillets, yes. We have a black stone, we cook everything for my myself separately from everybody else's. Yeah. Um, and just we're, you know, just cautious. Accidents happen here and there. That's part of life. Same with, you know, going out and eating out. Um, we don't eat out a lot anyway, but when we do, I I know there's a big fear um with people in the alpha gal community about eating out. I would just advocate for myself, make them aware of my allergy, check how they cook things, check what their type of oil is. Um, at the end of the day, I mean, something can always happen, but that's life. I mean, it doesn't even have to be alpha gal related, and something can happen. So I just try to continue to live my life and go on and manage it as best as I can.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah. I I I I feel fortunate when it comes, my kids are adults, um, uh, all live out on their own, live with their uh significant others, and and and so I feel pretty fortunate. My wife is very um uh she we eat alpha gal friendly. Everything we eat now is alpha gal friendly. Um, and unless we go out, and then she might get her a big bacon double cheeseburger or something, you know, but it just about everything here at home. Um, because it's just the two of us. So I guess uh that's pretty fortunate for us. I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

I will say my kids will they'll hear it on here, but they eat dairy free more than what they realize they do.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Oh, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, oh yeah. I I have not like if I use dairy-free cream cheese or dairy-free cheese or oat milk or whatever, I don't even tell them that I've replaced milk in a recipe with it because they uh, you know, might throw a little bit that it's not as good as they think. They haven't noticed. We have potato soup and it's got oat milk in it, not regular milk, and I just kind of keep that quiet here. Sure, don't tell anybody, and it makes everything much easier.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

I like I don't mind the oat milk, is good. I like it. I like the oat milk. Yeah. Um, and you know what? You you just see, I I always say that every episode there's something to learn. I never gave I missed potato soup, and I hadn't really thought about man, you know, I gotta make all that milk, but you're right. I can see potato soup on my menu probably next week.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Yeah, it's good with oat milk in it.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah. Um, so let's move on a little bit. So um, you are an avid outdoors lady as well. You guys tend to do a lot of hiking and camping and so forth. Um, tell me, tell me a little about that. You guys just did a big trip around my area too, I hear, huh?

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Yeah, we just got back earlier this week. Um, we did a we cut through Ohio, went to Hawking Hills, did some hiking around there, went down into West Virginia to the New River Gorge area, um, did the bridge walk, did some hiking there around the national park, and then spent a little time in Virginia and North Carolina and Kentucky before we made our loop back home.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah. Hiking, lots of hiking, lots of hiking.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Uh my kids would tell you that I'm the type where I'm like, it's just two miles and we're gonna be gone half the afternoon on a 10 mile hike that I've tried to like, you know, squeak in there and not tell anybody how hard it was actually gonna be. Yeah. So I love hiking. Um, I know like it's been mentioned in other groups with farmers with Alpha Gal, like would because some who it is their main source of income have had to step away from it because it affects them so much. For me, like I couldn't give up hiking and camping because of Alpha Gal. And so that that's what I love to do. So we're just more cautious about ticks. We use DEEK, we use uh permethrin, yeah, and are just careful. But I I yeah, like when it's summertime, I I could spend the whole summer on a hiking trip somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, yeah. Sounds a lot like my wife and I. Same thing, same thing. Yeah, and and every vehicle we have, and I'm not kidding, from my work truck to my daily driver to my wife, is you open it up and look in the door, there's a can of D. Both sides usually. Um, and I've said this on the podcast so many times, you know, um, we do our uh we got a couple hunting trips. Um, we got spring turkey down in Kentucky, uh, and we and we do a rifle uh hunt in Kentucky. And my buddies, you know, it's a standing rule. We get there, uh, we get there usually the night before, and promethrin and the deet all goes on the porch and everybody sprays down. Spray down or you know, don't come. It's a it's just a standing rule. Um, but I don't have to, there's no arguing or bickering, probably the same with your kids. They don't they don't want this stuff. Yeah. So what'd you think of Hawking Hills? Cool place, huh?

SPEAKER_02 37:12

You know, I on my list of places to hike, Ohio was never on the list, to be honest. Um, but when we came across Hawking Hills on a Google search, I I told my friends, I'm like, this doesn't even look like what you would expect Ohio to have. Like it's just so super cool.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Yeah, yeah. Old Man's Cave, did you uh happen to hike uh Conkles Hollow by any chance?

SPEAKER_02 37:37

We did not.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

No, that's my favorite in Hawking Hills is Conkles Hollow. That's that's a that's a really cool hike. Um, but Old Man's Cave, that neat as heck.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Yeah, I I was I was very impressed.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Um also like I mean the park was relatively busy, like it's a popular location, apparently.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

So it very much is, yeah. And from where I live to there, it's like it's incredibly different. Incredibly different. It's probably a two and a half hour drive from me to get there. And and I've said it, I mean, I can't tell you. I mean, I've been going there my whole life, off and on. And um, it's like I don't even feel like I'm in Ohio when I go there. Yeah, it's like I'm out west somewhere or something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

What about Kentucky? Where did you hike at in Kentucky?

SPEAKER_02 38:29

We we just drove through Kentucky. We had stopped one day at Churchill Downs. We went through there on a Friday, and so they had a race going on, and um, my husband wanted to catch a race there, and my girls wanted to see. I'm not a not a huge horse fan myself, but I felt like it was something um to experience. But we're gonna have to go back to Kentucky because that was just kind of on our way home. So I didn't really we were at Brakes Interstate Park, which I guess part of it's in Virginia, and part of that is in Kentucky, and so we were there for a night, but definitely I'm gonna have to go back out that way to do more hiking. Normally I'm headed west in the summer.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Yeah, yeah. The um, but you mentioned the new river new new river gorge in in West Virginia. Um, my wife and I uh did the upper gully one time. Um the rafting, and um, that's that's something. It's the um second most extreme river in the United States and fifth in the world. And I've done it once, I've done it once, and I won't do it again. Yeah. Now, maybe if I was 20 years younger, because we did it 17 years ago now. Maybe if I was 20 years younger, I'd do it. But at my age now, I'm I I'm not doing it again.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Yeah, we debated we debated rafting out there. We've rafted before out in Colorado, so we decided to do the bridge walk. Um, since that was something that we hadn't experienced, and that was super cool.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yeah, yeah. Where at in out west? You say you've been out west, where where at out west have you traveled to?

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Um Colorado numerous times. Um, there's just so many great places to hike out there. We've done, I I love national parks. So yeah, uh we've gone up to Glacier. Um, we hiked up there. We did Iceberg Lake and Grinnell Glacier, spent probably a good four or five days up in Montana exploring and hiking. Last summer we did the Mighty Five in Utah. I will say I did not think about ticks near as much in Utah as I do when we're down in South Missouri or like this summer out in in Virginia and West Virginia because they don't really have a whole lot of Lone Star ticks out there. Um but yeah, last summer we did we hiked in Arches National Park. We did all Mighty Five, but we just hiked in Arches. We hiked in Bryce Canyon, which I felt like honestly was the hardest hiking in the whole trip. And then got lucky. I got past his um permits to hike Angels Landing in Zion. So we did Angels Landing last summer, then just decided I need to do a little bit more and went out to Colorado and did Manitou Incline into July. So that's awesome. Yeah, so many places out west. I think you could just spend a whole summer out there exploring and hiking.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah. I've only been out in the fall. I've been out for elk season and um oh yeah, but I've been very close to um arches. Um I didn't go there, but I was right down around four corners down there. Um I've been I've been we've hunted, we've hunted stayed right there at Dove Creek, which is just not very far from Four Corners there. Um I love it out west. I I I uh people talk about all these places out west, and I haven't seen them because when I've been out there, I'm I'm elk hunting, you you know, so I'm like I'm seeing some cool stuff. Uh I did we did we did uh take a ride up to Tell Yuri Ride one year. Um uh we harvested early and um we were three hours from Tell Yuri Ride. So me and another fellow, we jumped in the truck and took a ride and went up to tell your ride. And that was that was something really, really cool to see there. A drive one way into town and one way out, and the whole, you know, the whole you're just surrounded by mountain peaks, which is just uh absolutely incredible. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

I don't know how how that view could get old to anybody out there. Anybody. Yeah, yeah. We did um we went out to Estes Park a few years ago um when the elk were in rut. And so that was neat because we hadn't been out in the fall, so the aspen trees were still yellow, and it was just so cool to like watch the elk. They're they actually were in town. We watched them on a golf course one afternoon, but just bugling and chasing each other around. We just I could have sat there all weekend and just watched that.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be awesome. I when we hunt, it is it's second rifle season, so it's like uh first week of November. So the rut is over. And I remember the first trip out there had one of the guys in the hunting party had been going a long time. He's like, You I bought a bugle call and everything. He said, You don't need that thing, they're not gonna be bugling, the rut's over. And I remember I was sitting in a shooting house and I heard a bugle. Like, I can't be a bugle. He told me I wouldn't hear a bugle, and then I heard it again, and it was like I I I they said it was a rare thing, but it was my first trip. And um, and what it was and done the research is a bull was just kind of holding the herd together. They was coming into a water hole, and I was hunting close to a water hole. And um, but I I listened to him bugle probably 20 minutes before they come and popped up where I could see him, you know. Um but uh yeah, I love it. I love it so much out west. Um speaking of Kentucky, you said I I always um i almost every episode I bring. Up the gorge in some way or the other, but you should really look into Red River Gorge and Natural Bridge down there in eastern Kentucky. Um my wife and I we spend tons of time down there. Um I I like to call it one of our sponsors. Uh we have a sponsor for the show, which is an Airbnb down there, but it's actually mine and my wife's. But we spend quite a bit of time down there in the gorge. But um uh but it's the same as like, you know, make sure you wear your promethrin because it's it's um there is a lot of lone star ticks in that area for sure. Yeah. So I'll I'll get back. I'm gonna get back over to medical for just a quick second. I got a couple things I forgot to ask. Um a lot of people, including myself with Alpha Gal, end up with something called mast cell and they have to control their histamines. Do you have do you have any issues with your histamines in mast cell?

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Um, I mean, there's times I suspect that histamine is at play. Um, but I do not have mast cell. Um, so I consider myself lucky.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

Right now, the literally only thing that I'm diagnosed with is just alpha gal.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a fortunate thing for sure. So, Jenna, I got one more. I don't know if you've listened to the podcast or Mutt or anything, but I try to end um, you know, every uh episode with uh what I like to call an Alpha Gal surprise. So it can be good or bad. Like um my favorite surprise for Alpha Gal was finding out Twizzlers was safe, had a good sugar in them, and they would say. Uh my worst was, you know, I work outside every day, so I'm always taking a bottled water. When I found out Aquafina and Dasani waters, you know, they're filtered through bone char, which I learned the hard way. Um, but then was Alpha Gal surprises for me. Do you have anything that jumps out to you that either good or bad that you would call an Alpha Gal surprise?

SPEAKER_02 45:58

I think my biggest surprise, not the good one, was um shampoo and conditioner. So I had like the back of my head had itched for the longest time. I remember asking my hairdresser, like, does my scalp look okay? It just like drove me nuts. Um, then just one day at random, and you would think like you would with Alpha Gal, you're so used to checking labels that you would think to check everything. But one day I was like, I wonder if my shampoo and conditioner is vegan, and it was not. And like within three days of switching to a vegan shampoo, I'm like, my head does not itch anymore at all. Um, so the biggest surprise are just all those weird little things that you have to constantly be on the lookout for that contain mammal that isn't even a food.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is a terrible thing right there, and that's something, yeah. I was I I was I I have to use natural. Uh my wife gets a big tub of this all natural body wash or whatever. Um, I gotta use it as well. So but Jenna, I really appreciate. Is there anything on your mind that you think we might have forgot or didn't didn't didn't cover?

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Um I mean, I felt like we touched the farm animals pretty well. I mean, the main thing just with anybody who lives on a farm, if they suspect Alpha Gal, they really need to start considering that they are reacting to their actual livestock, not just the meat that they eat inside their house at dinner. So bodily fluids, manure, um, all those things. Even with baby goats, even when they're two days old, I still can't pick them up and handle them because of the dry amniotic fluid on their hair. So just being cautious, um using your own personal protective gear, gloves, whatever it is, and not just with farming, but even just with hiking and camping. Just know what your triggers are, know how to prevent it, have your plan of action in case something does go wrong. Um, have your epi pen, use it. Um just be cautious. But you can't just like stay in your house and quit living your life because of this. I feel like there's so many other things out there that are far worse than Alpha Gal. Like this can be manageable, you can live with it. You can still I still eat all the things I used to eat. I just swap it out with dairy free or ostrich. Um I'm not gonna let it, you know, get me down and not let me live the life I want to live.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

So yeah. What about pets? You any other pets? Do you have dogs or cats?

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Yes, yeah. Uh I've I've got a I I have a very clingy little mutt dog. Um, and then last year we got another, it's actually a wiener dog who is also very needy of my attention. I am lucky I do not react to pet dander. Um, they're both tiny dogs, so I don't react to like cattle dander either. It's mainly just bodily fluids and manure and things like that. So yeah, we do have pets. Um, my kids love pets. I feel like they being farm kids, especially my youngest, I if she walks in the house and is like, guys, look what I found, odds are it's some sort of animal that she's trying to bring into the house. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

That's awesome. I think the one thing, I think just off the top of my head, I think the one thing that people's gonna get out of this a lot today is you paying attention to when it's wet um versus dry, um, like if you go to the barn or something like that. I I I would have never that's something that I would have never even, I would have never even thought of that.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Yeah, the wet versus dry. Also, just with the goats, um, because they have a little bit more of a solid manure, with them, it's I mean, if you've ever had a billy goat, you know that they can kind of have an aroma. I feel like with the goats, what I pay attention to is if the wind's blowing from the south, because they are south of our house, and typically they don't bother me the smell of them unless the wind's blowing from the south. So wow, just little things to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

What do you do in that situation? Because it's your home.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

What do you do if typically the goats are only close to the house when they're kidding? And then after that, they go on to the 40 acres that runs along our property that we rent and they stay over there. So, since we do rotational grazing, I can go six months without seeing a cow, other than the two or three that are in the lot that are getting fed out um to be butchered. So I am lucky that that is when we bought this property before years back before I even had Alpha Gal, like it was set up to be able to rotate. And then we got the neighboring property, gave us an even bigger area to rotate cattle. So I'm lucky that um they can be far away from me for several months at a time.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

How many head of cattle do you got?

SPEAKER_02 50:48

We've got about 30. So we have cow, calf, pears, and then like I said, the ones that we just feed out and sell as butcher fat cattle.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

So yeah. Awesome. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Now don't ask me how many goats we have because I honestly could not tell you how many goats are out there.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Yeah. Did you do you um do you do you save any goat milk?

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Um, we don't. So the goats also they raise babies up each year, and then we just sell off the kids each fall or spring, just depending on what we decide to do with them. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

Your kids uh they do the 4-H thing?

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Um, our youngest does FFA. We've never been in 4-H. They've all they've always wanted a very well-rounded, they want to be in sports, they want to be in this club, and so with four of them, they've always all been so active that 4-H just didn't seem like something that we had time to do. I would have loved for them to have done 4-H. So we just got FFA here last year. So my youngest is in FFA. So we keep done on it.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Last year, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

It is, especially since we're a small rural town.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Yeah, yeah. Uh well, I think um I'm gonna just browse through. Um I think I covered all of my questions, Jenna. Um, I really appreciate you coming on. I got that uh peg stuck in the Missouri uh I'll put it, you say the northwest corner, is that what you said?

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Yep, so Lawson, Missouri. If you got a big map, it's probably not on there. So just go a little bit south of Cameron and put your dot there.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

There you go. You know, I was looking at it. I got a map of the United States in the house hanging on the wall um before I came out here. And it looks like Missouri touches like eight states.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

It does. Yeah, I remember learning that in elementary. I think we border more states than any other state.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Yeah, I was like, I got to look and I was because I because you know, you hear about Missouri, uh, Mississippi and Arkansas, you know, uh being hotbeds for Alpha Gal. So I just kind of wanted to look at uh at the map, and I couldn't believe I counted, and it's some of them are just a little bit of teeny sliver, yeah, but it touches like eight states, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Every time we come back from like you know, this summer, even just from West Virginia, and especially if we come home from somewhere out west, I'm like, why do we live in Missouri? But I always tell myself, just because I mean we don't have those, we we have the Ozark Mountains down south, but we don't have those beautiful rocky mountains. And I'm like, Well, I am halfway to anywhere in the United States, right here in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

So that's that's a good way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Yeah, get wherever I want to get quickly.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

So yeah, it takes me a long time to get out west. A long time. We drive out there, uh El Continent, it's between 24 and 30 hours to drive out there. It's terrible. Yeah, Kansas, the longest, flattest, boringest state that I've ever drove across in my whole life.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

I don't know, you know, not to say anything about negative about Kansas, but anytime we have headed to Colorado or anywhere out west, I'm like, I wish we could just like just like if there was a way to bypass this or jump it over because we road trip everywhere. We pull a camper, um, so we don't fly very often, but yeah, man, Kansas, it's it's um it's deceivingly big. It is long, yeah. And then you get to Colorado right there on the east side, and it's like, I'm still in Kansas because you don't see mountains so you get out there a little ways. And so I thought my kids they cross the state line and they're like expecting to see Rockies right there after they cross the border, but yeah, it don't work like that.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Yeah, it'll work like that. No, all right, Jen. It's been a great talk. I sure appreciate it. Um, this episode we'll get it out, uh be um um what'd I say, uh July the 15th. Right. Um Will uh Winford is the next episode. Um and if you haven't listened a lot, it's a it's a very good episode. He has uh he's a rock climber, mountain climber. He's actually climbed El Capitan, but he had some heart issues, and it finally got related back to the a tick bite. And uh it's a it's a it's a very interesting. By the time this episode comes out, this one will his will be two weeks old. But um, yeah. Anyways, Jenna, thank you so very much for coming on. I appreciate you very much. I'm gonna hit this record button real fast here. So thanks for tuning in to Alpha Gal Dorsman. Make sure to hit that follow button. And until we meet again, wear your ticker fellon.