The Lone Marketer's SOS: Anna's Story

Ever cried in the work toilets and thought… is it just me? 😅

Spoiler: it's not 💙

This week Emma sits down with Anna, MINT ambassador and lone marketer, for one of the most honest and relatable conversations we've had on the pod yet 🎙️

Anna has spent her entire career walking into businesses with no marketing function, no brand guidelines, and absolutely no support: and building something brilliant from scratch every single time. Sound familiar? 👀

They cover everything from ADHD as a marketing superpower, to why asking for help is actually a strength, to the marketing fails that still make her cringe 😂

Oh, and she finishes with quite possibly the best piece of advice we've ever heard on this podcast 🍷😂

If you've ever felt overwhelmed, undervalued, or just completely alone in your role, this one is for you 💙

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Mint, Marketers in Need of Therapy. Yes, we joke that we're marketers in need of therapy, but the T stands for so much more. Training, thought leadership, time-saving tips, tools, a team enabling us to thrive as marketers.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

So welcome to the podcast, Anna. Anna is our ambassador for Min, and it is an absolute pleasure to have you on. You've already already been instrumental to her making Min happen and helping us out with lots of different ideas. But it'd be great if you could just tell us a bit about yourself and your career to start with.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Thank you for having me on this podcast. Yeah, so a little bit about myself. To start off, you know, I come from Brazil and I moved to France and then I came here. And I actually studied law because I thought, you know, I wanted to be a lawyer, I wanted to be the person that says objection and you know saves people's lives effectively. But actually I kind of fell into marketing. I across different sectors. I started off in property, then I went into technology, investment banking. So I've kind of put my marketing skills into different pots, into different industries. And the one thing that's always been the common thing for me is I've walked in and there's been no marketing function, there's been no marketing department, and because it's something that I've always enjoyed, I've sort of built it on my own. And every single time I've walked into a business, you know, I've had to start from scratch pretty much every single time. Um having to figure out exactly what the company stands for, what their what their brand is, and you know, there's never been a function where I walk in and there's already, you know, the brand guidelines available, there's no content calendar available, there's literally nothing. So I have to be able to understand the business, what it stands for, what it's trying to do with its clients, and then sort of feed that through into the different marketing aspects. Um, and I think when you're a marketer, you're not just a marketer in the business, you're somebody that has to come in and be an educator to the entire business because most of the time, you know, they don't really know what marketing means. You know, for CEOs, for a lot of my bosses, has been, you know, just make this go viral, just make this work. And you know, I I want to when you post something on LinkedIn, I want to see tens and thousands of engagements, of likes, and trying to make them understand that that's not how it works, and it's more of a slow burner. And it's it's not it's not always um, it's not all, it's not always, you know, it's not all bad. It's obviously there's a lot of good in being a marketer in terms of being able to whenever you make a campaign win, or whenever your, you know, the website traffic doubles, or you have an event and leads come out of that that turn into a business or a prospect, that is entirely your wins, and that's what I genuinely love about marketing is that when it does, when it works and when it and when you know you see the reward it brings, that itself is something that you know I thrive to continue doing, and I think it makes the hard days not as bad, basically. Yeah, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Yeah, I think that's a real good overview of what it is to be a lone marketing manager for sure. And I think that's the thing. I mean, I've said it on the podcast before, it's not a one-night stand, it's a marriage. Yes, and it's and it takes a long time, and a lot of people, you know, think they're gonna be viral overnight. And I I always go back to the Joe Wicks story, you know, everyone thinks he became an overnight success. It was a 10-year fight to get to where he when he became, you know, when people start to get to know him. Ten years, it's not oh, you know, when you're doing this stuff organically, you can, yes, there is the off-char off chance that you might be able to make something go viral, but everyone expects to go viral overnight, don't they? And it just doesn't work like that, unfortunately. Exactly, exactly. So, um, so obviously you've stumbled across mint. If for no people that don't really know what the mint networks like, do you want to just give us a bit of a yes, of course?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Um, I think Mint is probably the group chat I wish I had like five years ago. Um, I think it's something where for all the low marketers out there that sort of feel like everything gets a bit overwhelming, a little bit too much, and they don't have those colleagues or that boss to be able to just be honest with. I think that's what Mint is about. It's a community of other low marketers that can be honest and support each other. And you know, I feel like I mean, even the other day I had a moment where I was at work and there were so many different priorities coming from every direction, and everything had to be done. Everything's urgent when it comes to marketing, and I felt a little bit overwhelmed. And I actually went to the toilet and I started crying, and then I thought, oh, actually, wait, I've got mint. Like, let me message the group chat. And as soon as I mess messaged the chat, all um all the members quickly like replied and said, It's okay, it's okay to feel like this. And you know what? It actually just made me feel like supported and not alone, and not you know, having to stay in the toilet and cry. I literally wiped the tears off my face and I said, No, you know, I've got this, I know what I'm doing, and I know I'm good at what I do. Um, and then I walked out and you know, I had that boost, I had that confidence, and it was all because of Mint and because of the members that were that took the time out of their day to reply to my sort of SOS signal and say, please help me. Um, and for me, I think it's very important to have that community because it's made me realize actually that you know that's the irony. It's we call ourselves low marketers, but actually, there's thousands of us across the UK, across the world, sitting at a desk thinking, oh, you know, like who can I speak to? You know, so I think Min definitely is something I wish I had, like I said, like five to ten years ago, because I think my career would have probably looked very different in terms, not in terms of the roles, but maybe how I felt about them. Because I think, yeah, when you're alone, you know, it can it can be it can be um a lot to take on mentally, and having that community of people that just get it and don't judge and aren't there to sell you something, you know, it's it's nice to have a community of, you know, it's like your everyday therapists effectively. So I I love I love that, and it really did save me like the other day when I thought, oh, you know, I'm having a breakdown, like who can I turn to? And I had mint, so that definitely changed my day. It could have stayed work, could bad, and it became a good day from having that.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah, I see love that Anna, and that is exactly why I've set up Mint. I mean, the next question was going to be asked about why are you champion Mint? But I think you've just answered that.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

I really do think I honestly think it's definitely something if if you're a low, if you're a low marketer out there and you really feel like there's no support and you want to give up, don't, because there is this community that is available to you and everybody's so lovely, and I can really I felt like I could really be myself. Like I I messaged that chat, and yeah, honestly, it it made my day a lot better. And so I did a glass of wine, but honestly, with with mint, yeah, I could, it's it's definitely that that marketing therapy that you need.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

That's the thing, isn't it? I think when I was a lone marketing manager, when something went wrong with the day or a manager didn't agree with something, I didn't for one thing, one second, think that that it was it was something wrong with what they were thinking. I just thought, I'm not good enough to do this role, actually, this isn't this isn't good enough idea. I need to be better. Maybe marketing isn't for me. And I just think that is what a lot of people are thinking when I'm speaking to people, and actually, this is why it's this is why you've got to come to Mint, really, isn't it? Because you are an amazing marketer, and when there's you know, I think it's the only career there's loads of memes, I've seen loads of memes about at the moment. About you wouldn't tell a solicitor how to do their job if you're not legally trained. So I don't there's so many people out there telling you, actually, no, I think you should do this. Sorry, sorry, but like have you like that? Is marketing that you're thinking about the then they don't really think about the end client. Somebody said the other day to me, um, just because you don't like orange doesn't mean that your clients don't like orange. Like, and it's about the it's about what they want, not about what you like. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

And I think that's a battle that I struggle with constantly in terms of you know, I'm at work and I have my colleagues, my you know, management always saying to me, oh, this is what you should do, you should do GEO, you should do this, and this will work. And it's not actually, you're not understanding, well, no, who are we trying to, you know, who what what are we trying to market, what are we trying to sell here? And you know, it's not the people within the company, it's really the our future clients, our current clients. You know, we need to be understanding what do they want and understanding their needs and making sure that we can relay a message that resonates with our clients, not with what resonates internally. It's something that's always been a bit of a of a struggle, but you know, once it does, when something does land and they do listen to you, then you can feel, yeah, I've had I had that win. That was that was good.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

And I think there is a main, a main, a big focus that I'm trying to bring on Mint as well, is that it is your mindset and and believing in yourself when people other people believe in you. I don't know if you've heard the podcast, I called it Be More Emily, but she doesn't get no's. And to be honest with you, I don't think I'd say no to her either. Like she's she's got this gravitas that just comes in and she genuinely believes that she is really good at at marketing. Sorry, she is really good at marketing, she did this is it's a fact, but she knows it, and actually that's everyone doubts themselves. I had a moment yesterday where I was just like, I want to throw myself in the bin, I've had enough, yeah. You know, so I I completely understand what you're going through, and I don't think it's just marketers, I think everybody everybody does that, but this this network's for marketers.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

So you've been very open about your ADHD diagnosis. Do you want to kind of explain how that's changed the way you work and is there highs and lows?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yes, um, so yeah, my re my ADHD diagnosis is quite a recent one. Um 15 years too late, I would say, but it's definitely helped me understand my brain. It's definitely a journey. Um, I'm learning every every day something, something new, and I think it ties in quite well with marketing because with marketing, it you know, it's you're always a work in progress. Like you never know everything, like you can't be, you know, you can't know everything with marketing because of everything changes so regularly, especially with the technology that's constantly evolving. And for me, it's something that instead of having to apologize for you know having ADHD or not knowing everything, I'm actually owning it and say, well, no, you know, I can work on a campaign and fixate on that and make sure it works, and have those hyper focused sessions where I proper lock in and you know I get I get the stuff done. And there's other times where yeah, the self-doubt kicks in, and I have to remind myself that this is not what everybody else thinks of me, this is just me. And sometimes you are your own worst enemy, like with the self-doubt and thinking that you're not good enough, and that you know you can't you can't do it. And what I'm trying to do at the moment is when I get those thoughts, you know, I try and pause and think, you know, would I say that to somebody else? Or you know, would I say that to my friend? And I wouldn't. So I try and start thinking more positively about things instead of thinking, oh, everything's doom and gloom. Um, and yeah, like I said, I'm still I'm still a work in progress, and I'm not ashamed about that, and I'm happy to continue learning about myself, about how I work, and using ADHD as my own superpower to make those campaigns creative, to make those to be honest and to be authentic with my audience and to be able to connect with people. And I think that's where the ADHD and the marketing kind of intertwine for me, where I can, you know, I really want to be able to build those connections, those real connections with with people and um to be an advocate of saying that you know it's okay to be different, it's okay to not always have the answers and to just be you. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

And you know what? I think you've ADHD or not, it that is how we all feel at times. Well, you've just described, and you know, being super focused on a campaign is very hard when you've got loads of other things going on and all the admin in the background, etc., it is really, really hard. So yeah, it's about not beating yourself up, isn't it? There's so many things we can do, Anna. But only human. We are only human, yeah. So for marketers that are struggling with their mental health, there's loads going on the business and they're really, really struggling. I think the main concern is they're scared to ask for help. They're scared to say, I can't do all this in case they replace them. That's what I've the feedback I've got. So, how would you tell them, like to talk to them and tell what would you do, what advice would you give them? What should they do in those circumstances?

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I think you know, being scared is completely normal. You know, being scared and afraid to ask for help, I think shows that you care and that you don't, you know, it's it's more of how you feel about yourself. You feel that if you ask for help, you're actually being, you know, it's a professional failure, but it's not. I think when you're a marketer, you have so many tabs open effectively, you know, you have so many dis different disciplines that you have to follow. And I think asking for help is actually being resourceful, and it actually shows how competent you are by saying, actually, you know, I can't carry all this weight, I'm going to put some of it down and ask for that help. So when you're scared, I think you need to try and remove that thought process a little bit and say to yourself, Well, if my if I cannot go to my boss and tell him, look, I'm feeling overwhelmed, I need a little bit of help, and he doesn't accept that, then you know, it's okay for you to want to leave, and it's okay for you to want better for yourself because you know, I think a job's just a job, and if you're not happy in in that job, then I think it's important to find that place where you can make a difference and people will listen to you. Um, you know, and if you don't want to speak to your boss and you you know you want to keep that job, then reach out to Mint and reach out to other marketers that are in the same position that feel alone, and sometimes just talking about it sort of helps you realise to say, actually, I'm not really that scared. Like I can actually ask him about that. Yeah, if he doesn't, yeah, say if he doesn't respond, if he doesn't respond, then you have your answer there, and you can, you know, you can, you know, as as people say, you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure, so trust me, you'll find somewhere you'll Yeah, you deserve more. You deserve more. Everybody deserves more. And you know, I think it's important to be able to not to like if a job makes you feel like you're not good enough, then I don't think that's the job for you. You know, you there are plenty of positions out there where you can be valued, and even you know, reaching out to mint has been, you know, my go-to, and it's been my safe space where I can go with no sort of prejudice, no judgment, and say, oh, you know, today I've had a really bad day, nobody's listening to me, everybody's making me feel like I don't know anything, and just to be honest and and raw, and I think that's that's that's what honest, honest, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

I love it. And that's the thing. I think when I was a lone marketing manager, I couldn't do something. I physically did not know how to do ads, I had no idea. And they're like, just get some ads behind it. And I was like, I don't know how to go to them and say, I don't know what I'm doing with ads. I'd I'd had children, ads have been quite new, I don't know what I'm doing. And I finally just said, I really don't know how to do this. And my boss said, Let's bring a specialist in to teach you. And that that was so scared for I was so scared to to say that. And it's like, if you can actually go to your boss and ask, and if they're that they're only human too, they they they don't know everything. I am now a boss, and you know, I don't know anything. I'm winging my life, I'm winging it, and I I can't expect my team to know everything either, and that's where that understanding needs to come in from the boss that if you can invest in these people, they will stay with you for a long time. I make it a mission that people in my team don't. I'm not I'm not saying that they're absolutely skipping and jumping into work on a Monday morning, but they're not feeling sick on a Sunday night, dreading their Monday morning. If that is you, you are in the wrong job. You absolutely are, and it's not because you're a bad marketer, it's because you haven't got that support around you. And it's really, really important that marketers realise that.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Definitely, and I really agree on that point in terms of you know, when you ask for help and getting a specialist in, it it's okay not to know everything. Because I think a lot of the time when you're a lone marketer in businesses, they expect you to know everything and think it's just you know making things look pretty and making things, you know, posting. Posting down posting online, and you know, and they think it's oh, it's like it's alright, just you know, do some SEO around that, and you're just like, you know, it's it's not that simple. And yeah, that's why I think it's when when you have that that support to be able to talk about the fact that you don't know it all, and that it's okay to not know it, not not and it's okay to not be an expert at everything. Um, you know, I think being resourceful is a skill in itself, so yeah, I think definitely asking for help is not something we should be afraid of.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah. And I don't think it's bad to talk about your fails either. So, from my perspective, have you ever done something, a marketing campaign or done something in your career and it's flopped?

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yes. Um, well, when I first started doing marketing, I was doing a marketing campaign, and it was, I think it was to do with we were advertising like a new, like a recent deal that we that we had done. And I'd made it all like nice, I had got all the um the quotes from the client, internal, the um from the from the deal team, and everything was I tested the campaign, everything was good, and um I I'm not sure what happened, but I basically put the incorrect reply to address and it went out to my whole CRM. They've all been around. And then when and when people were applying, obviously they were getting an error, and so I had to quickly call IT to make sure that that reply to email address, because it was a genet generic one, but it didn't actually go anywhere, um, would get forwarded to me, and oh, the panic that I was going through, and then you know, management had seen that, and then they were just like, Oh, how can you do this? You know, this is a simple thing, and I mean, don't get me wrong, after that I'd never done that again, but I've learned from it, and then I was like, oh gosh, like the feeling of that was was just terrible. Um, I mean, there's so many I can tell you about, you know, when there's been a deal that is almost almost closed, and I'm using WordPress to like prep the um the announcement, but it's not going to be announced until the following week. And for some reason, with WordPress, it was in drafts, and the drafts automatically published, and it published um like a week before it was announced, and you know, I had to call the developers and say, Why is this happening? And you know, but then I'm getting all the brunt from the from management saying, How can you do this? You know it wasn't supposed to be launched yet. So, you know, it's at the time I felt like the world was like swallowing, like the ground was swallowing me up. Um, but sometimes with all these different platforms, sometimes there's a little bit of a technical glitch and or an issue or something that you didn't know that now you know. And I think with marketing, a lot of the time you need to have these little mistakes in order to be able to learn from them and realize, oh okay, this is this is how it should be done because you you don't always know. Um, and so yeah, I've definitely learnt from that from you know, when I do my campaigns and when I ever whenever I update the website, you know, I triple double check everything, but yeah, you know, it's something that helped me. If I hadn't had those mistakes, I wouldn't have learned and realised not to do them again.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

One thing I will say is that when you send out a newsletter wrong or something happened, you've done and made a mistake on a newsletter, if you send out again with the subject we've made a mistake, yeah, uh the open rate is incredible because people love to see you fails, they want to go and see what you've done wrong. So actually, we've sometimes used that as a campaign in itself. You know, we haven't actually made a mistake, we just want people to open it. So it's quite interesting. In fact, one of the good ones um Liana saw the other day was you're booking us at 7 pm Saturday night for a restaurant. She hadn't booked, so she opened it up. She was like, What are we talking about? Oh, we've got space. I thought that was a great. That's why it was great. I thought it was great. So, last question for loan marketers out there with a hundred things to do, spinning loads of plates, juggling loads of balls. What one piece of advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

I'll keep it short and sweet. I'd say enjoy mint and have a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

And that's it. Amazing. I think that sums up mint actually. Mint and wine. Fantastic. Anna, it's been a joy to have you on. Thank you so much for your time and I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you.