Paul Newnham on How Chefs Can Shape a More Sustainable Food System

Paul Newnham is a food activist and the CEO of the SDG2 Advocacy Hub, a global network of NGOs, civil society groups, private sector partners, and UN agencies working toward Zero Hunger by 2030. 

He leads the Chefs' Manifesto, a community of more than 2,000 chefs across 95 countries using their kitchens as platforms for a better food future, and Beans is How, a campaign to double global bean consumption by 2028. 

With 25+ years in advocacy and campaign strategy, Paul believes chefs are some of the most powerful voices we have for changing how the world eats. He also hosts the Future Fork podcast, exploring the food decisions we make today that shape tomorrow.

In This Episode, They Explore:

• Why chefs are uniquely positioned to shift how we eat, and how the Chefs' Manifesto turns 2,000+ kitchens worldwide into platforms for whole foods and sustainability
• The Beans is How campaign: why beans show up in nearly every cuisine on earth, and how getting more of them on menus benefits both your health and the planet
• Bean myths, busted, protein, fiber, prep, and the misconceptions that keep people from eating them
• How to read food labels and make quality choices without getting overwhelmed, plus why diversity in your diet matters more than any single "superfood"
• The global challenges heading for our plates, water scarcity, supply chains, and the practical changes you can make this week

Follow Paul Newnham on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paulnewnham/ 

Learn more about about Paul Newnham: disruptiveconsultingsolutions.com

Connect with Paul Newnham on Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/paulnewnham

Follow Paul Newnham on X: https://twitter.com/paulnewnham 

Listen to Future Fork Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/future-fork-with-paul-newnham/id1741482357 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the High Vibration Living Podcast. I'm your host, Chef Whitney Aronoff, health supportive chef, founder of Starsea Kitchen, and creator of nourishing food rooted in real ingredients, intuition, and intention. This podcast is a space where food, wellness, spirituality, and everyday living meet. We explore how what you eat, how you live, and what you believe all shape your energy, health, and overall sense of well-being. You have a physical body, a mental body, an emotional body, and a spiritual body. And all need to be recognized and nourished so you can feel balanced and truly thrive. Only you know what your body truly needs. Let this be your reminder that you already have the wisdom to tune in to your food, your self-care, and your spiritual practices and choose what supports you best. Through personal insights and conversations with experts across food, wellness, and spirituality, we'll explore how to nourish the physical, emotional, spiritual, and energetic layers of who you are so you can feel your best and live with clarity, vitality, and purpose. Let's get started. Hi, friends, and welcome back to the podcast. Today's guest is Paul Newham, a global leader at the intersection of food, policy, and culture. He is based in Australia and is the director of SDG2, the Advocacy Hub, and the driving force behind Chefs Manifesto, a global network of chefs using their platform to shape a better food system for both people and the planet. Paul works closely with chefs, policymakers, and organizations around the world to rethink how we grow, source, and experience food, bringing sustainability, equity, and nutrition into the conversation in real and actionable ways. In this episode, we're talking about how chefs can lead change, what's really happening in our global food system, and how the choices we make in our kitchens connect to something much bigger. We definitely talk about beans and lentils in this episode and rethinking how to approach menus at restaurants and what we're cooking at home. So we're making choices that are local, fresh, delicious, health supportive for us, and health supportive for our future. Enjoy. Cheers. Hi, Paul. Welcome to the High Vibration Living Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Thanks for having me. Super cool to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

And thank you for connecting with me all the way in Australia. What is so unique is that we're able to do this, but that uh we also care, no matter where we are on the planet, about food, our health, our environment. It's really neat to see that a lot of people are passionate about the same subjects right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the world is large, but it's also small. And um the connections are all over. And I think that really adds to our understanding of how we should live, how we should contribute, and what this planet is that we um all call home.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yes. And what I love is that you really work at an intersection between chefs and global policy. So I want to talk to you about where do you think chefs can be more supportive of where we go in regards to food? Because so much of how people get exposed to new food, which is really old food, right? Like the items that they haven't been keeping in the pantry or they haven't tried before, they get exposed to these things through chefs, through going out to eat, through what they see on social media. Um, so I'd love to know a little bit more about what you think is the role of chefs in helping us uh get back to like simplified real whole food ingredients.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think um the role of chefs is so critical for helping to really um open up the awareness of ingredients, but also um the way to cook, to bring things together. And I think chefs are masters at creating recipes, um, at creating dishes. They take ingredients as ingredients, they take methods, they bring it together in the kitchen, and they create something that's delicious, that's um nutritious, and that is engaging to people. And uh I think this is a unique role that chefs play, and often is almost I don't know, I was out for dinner last night and we were sitting around the table with my family, and there was a conversation of how do people how how does all this food, all different things we ordered, come out at the one time? And um my my youngest son is uh is a uh second-year chef apprentice, and he goes, Well, we have different sections, we have different ways of doing it. And when you start to talk about the actual process, it was really interesting just watching that dynamic of the skill that goes into and the organization to feed us in so many places, and when you take that knowledge and then you communicate it and use the platforms that we have, what used to be you had to go to the country or the restaurant to go and experience a different cuisine. Now we open up our phones, we turn on our screens, and we see directly snapshots of different living rooms, of different kitchens, of different restaurants, of different tips and tricks which help to expose us to this beautiful, amazing, diverse world that we live in, which has so much depth, so much history, so much culture that connects to the food that we eat. And so when you see those connections come together, it's just amazing to be able to then start to go, what is that role that chefs are playing? And how do we appreciate it? But also how do we we help chefs to understand the responsibility that comes with that in terms of helping to really open up and guide our food system towards the decisions that we need to make for our own health, for the health of the planet, uh, and for the well-being of everyone involved in the food system? And so I think there's this uh amazing opportunity, and then that that creates a responsibility and attention as well at times around how do you use that responsibility to effectively drive uh change and contribute to leaving the world in a better place.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Is there a particular ingredient that you would love to see more chefs in your area put on the menu?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

So when we looked at this and in the work that I've done, um we looked at how do you think about ingredients that are out there and ingredients that I guess um are no loss in terms of there's their their win-win-win-win-win. Um, we we kind of started to look at it. And often when you think about ingredients, they're very contextual, so they're very much tied to a space or a place or a particular type of cuisine, and often there can be challenge when you try and encourage people to eat those ingredients, but those ingredients maybe aren't available or they don't grow in that space. One of the areas we we got kind of fixated on was on beans, peas, and lentils. Um, because beans, peas, and lentils are uh a group of foods which are actually found in almost every cuisine around the world. They're uh a group of foods that um is very affordable, so it's very accessible depending on you know what what your resource level is, where you live, how you can have what you have access to. Beans, peas, and lentils can be very affordable because they're shelf stable. They um sorry about that light, I'm not sure why that's going off. Um uh they're shelf stable and they they um are also incredibly nutritious and good for the soil. So we want to encourage people. We have run a campaign called Beans Is How, which is built around it, was actually came the campaign idea came up from a chef, um, so chef Sam Cass, who used to be the um chef in the White House uh for the Obamas, and then he was um the head of food policy in the second term of the Obamas. He was in a meeting that I was running, and in this meeting we were talking about this exact question of how do we really drive change around our food system. And he said, Well, there's one thing that everyone can agree on is the scientist, everyone says if we ate more beans, it would be better for our health and for the health of the planet. And so he was like, Why don't we just try and get people to eat more beans? And so we launched a campaign called Beans Is How to do just that, and so the campaign um has been running for a number of years, it has organizations around the world that have joined, um, over a hundred organizations, big and small, and and people are basically putting beans on the menu, and we've seen chefs engage in this campaign in such a way where they've seen 20 to 30 percent increases in the number of beans going on menus in big large-scale caterers, restaurants. We've seen um beans on the menu across New York City, where we saw um it become uh the the New York Times called it the food trend of 2025. Um, so there's been a whole bunch of different work around the world where chefs have been at the forefront of really driving change to put these ingredients on plates in delicious ways that are culturally sensitive, that are affordable, that are accessible, and you know that's good for everyone. It's good for business, for the chefs and the restaurants, all the catering companies, it's good for the people eating them, and it's also delicious. So those kinds of changes are the changes I get excited about.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

So, is there a proper preparation of beans that you like to make sure that everybody understands? I'm a big fan of cooking beans from scratch, um, but I'm curious what's the preparation that you like to share with friends or family members that are finally considering adding them into their life?

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah, I mean, I I I I use dry beans often and I will um you know put them into a pot at the beginning of the day, soak them or soak them overnight, and then um make a dish that, you know, when you're working and it's busy in the end of the day, it's all there prepared. And um, so I mean, I that's the way I my favorite preparation, but I also think, you know, we've when we were looking at this, one of the things we said was we did a bit of evaluation of like the different preparations, the different um myths, I guess, around beans, and it was like, are canned beans bad, are dry beans better? Uh, you know, we asked all these kinds of questions. When it comes down to it, in the overall scheme of things, eating any beans, peas or lentils, is actually better than not eating them at all. So, in many ways, the preparation is minimal in terms of the the impact. So, you know, if you don't have a lot of time and you want don't have time to soak beans or you're not sure how to, grab a can of beans. There's nothing wrong with that. If you um don't uh if you have uh you know heirloom varieties available and you can you've got time and you've got the the skills, then you know, go for it. Um so what we've done is said, you know, really eat a diversity, don't look at just one way to prepare them, be much more open in the way that you're thinking about that. Um and and get it get adventurous because you don't want to just have it boring. Um, soaking beans, there's a lot of conversations and myths around like um anti-nutrients, they call them, and um, if you don't soak your beans and rinse them in the right way, there's lots of uh conversations around should the salt go in first or last. Um, and this is all I think fascinating and really interesting for people to look at, but there are things that can um reduce uh some of the impacts that beans can have on people's digestive systems by rinsing them and soaking them. Um there are things like that that can be done. Um, and and that's very able, you're it's very easy to find that out. But when you talk to chefs, they all have their own personal way of doing it. Usually I go with what they say in the area that they're in, and we just we just have some fun.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah, one of the things I love, I've always loved when it comes to cooking beans is every part of the world has an ingredient that they add to make it easier on the digestive system. So obviously in parts of Asia it's combu. Here in the US and Europe, it's a bay leaf. Um, when I was visiting a farm in Cuba, they have this giant oregano leaf that's like the size of the palm of your hand. And they always use that when they cook beans. So I think it's so neat that every culture cooks beans and every culture has a particular ingredient that they like to add to make sure that you digest and assimilate them well. Um so there it's like never-ending information that you can learn to evolve the way that you cook this ingredient.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah. I mean, we did a we did a piece where we uh also started to look at like what are all some what are some of the myths around like people saying I'm I'm allergic to beans or I have a reaction and and you know there's different conversations about well, what does that mean? And you know, everyone's guts and microbiomes are very different. When we talked to nutritionists, they said often what it is is there's a lack of fiber in people's diets. We're very obsessed with protein, but we often miss the fiber conversation, and that what fiber does is that provides the the base for your gut to um ferment to be able to actually and so the fermentation that is happening in your gut is actually positive. That's that's what creates a good healthy microbiome. But when you have fermentation, and if you you know in a kitchen, if you're fermenting something, you what do you get? You get bubbles. And so these bubbles are what is the gas that you have in your body. And once you eat more regularly fiber, that actually neutralizes. And so what people find is that when they inject a bean dish into their menu and they haven't had enough fiber, they get this reaction and they think it's an allergy or they think it's they shouldn't eat that instead of actually just increasing the fiber for a week or so, and then it it neutralizes. So one of the things that we've done is is is really try to push on some of these myths. And we have on um the Beans Is How website um uh a study that was done and where we looked at it's called The Brilliance of Beans, and it looks at some of these questions and it actually gives the perspectives with the the science behind it to actually answer some of those questions. So if chefs are listening and they want to learn a little bit more, that might be a good resource to have a look at. Because I know when we're sharing stuff on social media or we're sharing it, there's a lot of people with ideas and perspectives that come in and they they kind of pull apart our our our conversations. And it's always good to be able to reference and say, where did we get that information from? Why are we saying that? And then allowing people to make their own mind up.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

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SPEAKER_02 16:51

Look, I think um, you know, the big uh one that's a really big one is this obsession with protein. And um, I'm still learning a lot about like what is protein, how do how do we need it in our bodies, how much do we need. Um, I've got uh some some some children who are pretty obsessed with protein at the moment. They they're at the gym every day, they're they're eating crazy amounts of protein because their personal trainer told them. And then I've got friends who are some of the top nutritionists in the world, and they're like, you know, in the world, there is particularly in North America, Europe, Australia, there is no one with a protein deficiency. No, no doctor in Australia, US, Europe is treating people for protein deficiencies. In some parts of Asia, Southeast Asia, um, Africa, you will find some protein deficiencies, but they usually go alongside hunger, hunger, and malnutrition issues. And so the majority of people are getting enough protein, and there's no reason for them to be eating more or supplementing it with protein water, protein everything, protein Doritos, I think is the latest thing that's come out. Um, but you know, people are pretty obsessed, and people think protein will just give them muscles and make them healthy, often when they're not even working out, you know, and they're not even doing the exercise or any of those things. But then when it comes to fiber, people are are avoiding fiber in their diet, and that's causing major issues that are still start only starting to come to the fore. But a lot of it is around our gut, and our gut is so connected to our own our overall health, to our mind health, to everything else. And if we don't feed our gut in the right way, it can lead to also other unintended consequences. And so, one of the things we are trying to learn a lot about, and and and I've been trying to kind of get my head around is this conversation around protein. Where does it come from? What's the history of it? And it's really fascinating when you look back at when did this protein obsession start, what was the science around it, why has it continued to grow? And a lot of it's been driven by industry, and um, and there's nothing wrong with that, but a lot of the the industry driving it has been because they're trying to increase sales, and uh it doesn't always line up. I would rather them continue to sell but sell smaller, better quality, and we eat a more diverse diet. And I think for me that diversity is also probably the second thing that we're really trying to encourage in diets is like how do we get dietary diversity and what does that look like? Because the more that you're eating different foods, the more you're getting all of those micronutrients, um, you're getting all the macronutrients you need as well, but you you've got a better chance in today's complicated food system to be getting what you need to be able to thrive. And and also it's more interesting, it's more exciting, it's more and so for me, you know, protein would be the first issue we're really struggling with a little bit is how do you best deal with it because it becomes a polarized conversation. And I think you know, we went into this big area where it was all everyone should become plant-based, and we had all these plant-based alternatives, but they were all not necessarily healthier than the animal-based products. And I think we need to find a happy medium where it's not an either-or. There's many cultures around the world that eat all a diversity of foods, but what we need to do is start to look at how are those foods impacting our planet, can we improve that in terms of their impact? How does that help our bodies to thrive? And how do we improve that? And then also the affordability, the cultural sensitivity, the the relatability. You know, there's so many other elements in our food system that we need to be critical and and thoughtful around.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

When it comes to helping people in your family and chefs understand food labels, what's what are some of the key words that you want people to look for when they're ordering their protein? So they make you know quality choices, just not quantity choices.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Yeah, I think quantity is is probably the starting point because I think the challenge is always being bigger is better. I grew up that way. It's like more, more if you can have more, why wouldn't you have more? And so, you know, and I think that's a challenge because I think our our starting point is that protein plates have been built around protein where you start with a a piece of protein and then you have sides, instead of and even that model or that mindset is I think partly problematic. It's the way we build dishes. Whereas I think um if you think about other cultures, they build much more complete plates or they build much more diverse plates, and so it's about having a small amount of protein on the plate plus a number of other uh ingredients. Gives you the holistic plate. And I think this is something that's been highly criticized. Like if you think about the science that came out a few years ago around Eat Lancet 1, which was a big study that was done on what's an ideal plate look like that also that helps human health and also thinks about planetary boundaries. And it got huge amounts of press, a lot of criticism from different groups, and and part of the question was is it was taken out of context. So people latched on to one part of it, which was it said you're only meant to have a very small amount of animal protein. And they were like, How do you make a burger out of that? How do you divide it up? How do you and I think partly that was the wrong question because it was like, well, no one's saying you can't have a burger. It's just what is a burger? We need to be thinking differently. Like the way we make burgers in our house is we use black beans, we use sweet potato, we use brown rice, we have a whole range of herbs, and it all comes together into these burgers, which is a recipe that um some guys from the UK called Bosch came up with, Henry and Ian. And um our family prefer that. I give them, I like I bought them Angus burgers, and they were like, where are our proper burgers? You know, so sometimes it's our perception, and I'm not saying everyone should be plant-based. What I'm saying is that I think we need to be thinking when we order from our labels about what are our assumptions that we're bringing to this. There are lots of uh of labels that help you make decisions. So there's things like organic, there's things like Rainforest Alliance, there's things like GMO free, all of these labels and and systems I think are helpful for for you depending on the choices you're making. So they all talk to the way in which those ingredients are grown, the way in which those ingredients are reared. Um, and and this is really important because it helps to talk about quality. But one of the challenges of that is that they're not the only way to understand that quality. So I've talked to many chefs and farmers in different parts of the world, and they say the labeling becomes challenging because they can't get the the level at the price and the availability that they need. But they go, well, we've been to the farm and we've seen it, and they're using the same practices, they just not don't have the label. So this is where it gets complex, and it's more about asking the right questions and thinking about your food and so looking at your plate, thinking about where's that coming from? If it's coming from local, do you know the farmer? Have you been to a farmer's market? Do you know your suppliers? Do you know what's going on there? Can you can you have that conversation? If it's not, then where are the the ways in which you can find out more? And so for me, it's it's it's about labels and those kinds of things in menus are really helpful. They're tools and they're guides, but also I think we've got to be careful not to just over-rely on them and then not ask any other questions.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

What do you think is the question that the the customer, you know, the friend, the person that wants to be healthier and make better choices for the environment? What do you think are the questions that they aren't asking? You know, sometimes we don't know what we don't know. So we almost don't know where to start in making changes. How do you approach that with friends or strangers or colleagues that come up to you and say, hey, you know, I I want to I want to eat healthier. I'd like to make decisions that are better for our environment. Like I can see what's going on around me isn't good. Um, where do I start?

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah. So I I I'm a big believer that there's no one answer. So I I go, the challenges were all running around. So there was a a couple of years ago, I was in New York and I was in a room. Um it was a really big room. We were checking out a venue, and I was there with a a a chef friend of mine, and we were chatting, and as we were chatting, we were talking about Fonio, which is a millet, which is from West Africa. Um Yeah, so we were we were chatting about this phonio, and there was a person on the other side of the room. I'm talking like 200 feet away, okay, and we're just chatting, and they they came up, they come over and they're like, Can you tell me what are you talking about? What's that ingredient? I just want to make sure that I go and eat it. What this said to me was this person was looking for an answer. They were desperate for information of what you were saying. Like, what should I be eating? It's so confusing out there. I don't know whether I should be eating this or I should be eating this. And I think the challenge is people are looking for single answers. When the answer is actually in the diversity, we should be eating lots of things. I think there's a huge amount of knowledge from indigenous cultures and and and like in the US, Native American, in Australia, you know, indigenous communities that that have eaten in a particular way for many years, where they they gathered different ingredients from they ate with the seasons, there were different ways that they ate. And I think there's a lot of importance and knowledge there that can be taught to us around this, which is that we should be thinking also about what's in season, what is available. Now, what's in season is not what's in the supermarket. What's in the supermarket could have sat there for six months, 12 months. You know, the average apple, I think, in American supermarkets is a year old before it hits the shelf. So the nutrients in that is going to be fundamentally different to an organic apple that was just picked at a farm gate and you you got from there. The degradation that happens in that that ingredient. So sometimes it's also not just about the ingredients, it's about where you're sourcing them from. It's about, and so by having that diversity, I think it's really critical. One thing I would say though is that we need to be a bit more educated about what are the macro food groups that we should be eating, and we should be thinking about that. So protein we're very familiar with, but we're not thinking as much about the carbohydrates in the right way, we're not thinking about um how our our fiber intake is coming in, we're not thinking in those ways around what that plate looks like, the saturated fats and stuff like that. And there's a lot of confusing information about this out there, and so I think what what often happens is we have unintended consequences in our diet because we're following one piece of advice which is kind of correct if you took it in amongst all the other advice, but because it's singular, it just becomes challenging. And so I think for me it's about really thinking more on a uh uh principle level, diversity, thinking about the buckets of food that you are eating and the diversity of of dishes across the week as well. Um, in I think there's certain foods that if we eat more of, there's a almost a no potential for for challenge. And when I go back to the Eat Lancet, one of the things I took from that was there's certain foods that we're not eating enough of. And I looked at my own diet and I went, hmm, what am I not eating enough of from these what they're saying? And I realized I wasn't eating enough seeds and nuts, and I don't need to eat only seeds and nuts, but I need to increase the seeds and nuts. So what does that look like? It means in breakfast, adding some, you know, almonds or some sort of nuts into my oatmeal, for example, um, adding sesame seeds on my salad at lunch, adding papitas on my, you know, dinner. It can be all different ways of increasing that. It doesn't have to be big, but it actually makes it taste better, it makes it more interesting, it creates texture, it creates flavor. And so by doing that, I was like, okay, I can add seeds and nuts. I knew vegetables, leafy greens, I needed to continue to eat. I've always known that since I was a little kid. It's always eat your greens. But uh, you've got to think more creatively about how do you do that. I can juice them, I can add them in here, I can add them when I'm doing a pasta bolognese, you can add, you know, spinach, you can pot like there's all different ways in which you can increase it. And so that it's sometimes it's not changing what you eat, it's changing how you're eating and how you're constructing the dishes. And I think chefs can do this in really amazing ways. You know, um, it's very easy to include vegetables in traditional dishes that maybe are more animal protein. And what you can do is then buy a little bit less animal protein. It means it helps your budget, it's also more healthy, so you can add, like whenever we do pasta, for example, if you do a bolognese, we'll go from instead of adding 500 grams of of of beef mints, you add 200 grams, and then you add two tins of lentils, some zucchinis that are pulverized, some carrots that are pulverized, and all of a sudden it it changes the texture, it actually tastes better, and it's also much more holistic in the the nutrients that you're getting. So I think some of that is really critical.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yeah, I would absolutely agree. I would love to know if you could expand on macro food groups and help people understand what that means and what they should be looking at.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

So when you when you're when you're looking at macro uh food groups, there's you know um the the the general perspective is that you know people are very familiar with certain things. Um and so you you you kind of look at proteins and people understand that, but you're also looking at the the three main groups are fats, proteins, and carbohydrates. Um, and then you've got to look at, well, what makeup do you have and what are the ingredients that actually highlight these? And often what we do is we are stuck on one is better than the other, and when we actually need all of them, and so it's thinking about how do you actually do that. And there's certain foods which have different levels. So, one of the critiques that you get from people when you say you should eat more beans is they go, Well, they're not a complete food, and you go, but they need they're they're missing one tiny little thing, and they've got everything else, and so then you go, okay, what is that? If you eat some whole grains with some beans, you are gonna be fine. So, like the perfect dish is beans on toast, for example, or a whole grain toast, you're gonna get the most complete meal. And it's so simple, and people go, but what do you mean? And it well, it's got carbs, it's got protein, it's got fat. And so sometimes I think we've got to think a little bit and we've got to challenge, but people go, but it's got less protein than a steak, and you go, Yes, a small amount less, but do you need that amount of protein? Like, this is the conversation that doesn't, you know, that sometimes gets lost. So for me, when we think about those macronutrients, I think what we have to do is think about that in a way that's more holistic. The other thing is, like, I was talking with Professor Christopher Gardner from Stanford uh the other day, and he was saying what happens is protein is one of the um the macronutrients that our body cannot store. So what happens is we turn it into carbohydrates, any excess protein gets turned into carbohydrates in our bodies. Which I was like, what? So people that are on just protein diets are actually eating all this extra protein and turning the rest into carbohydrates because your body can't store it. We can store carbohydrates and energy as fat. So any excess carbohydrates gets turned into fat and and you know it gets stored that way. So there's this, I'm not a nutritionist, so I'm not trying to give you the definitive here. I'm giving you my perspective, which I've taken from many conversations in this space. But for me, it's about sort of trying to go, what is all the recommendations out there? How do those recommendations line up? What are the top line uh insights that I can take from these recommendations to apply to the way that I see the world and the way that I choose to eat? And I think that's a better way than trying to say somebody's telling me I can't eat this or I can't eat this. It's more these are directions that we should take in the way that we're designing our food system.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

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SPEAKER_02 35:51

So look, it it's a it's an interesting space. I I I worked for a long time for a big international um humanitarian organization that works around the world, um, working in countries, helping in development and humanitarian, so responding to crises and helping communities uh to uh develop different elements, uh, water, health, food systems. Um, in that I was exposed to lots of challenges around the world, and what our organization did a lot of work around food programs, so it was helping in emergencies provide food, but it was also working with smallholder farmers in different parts of the world to grow food. And one of the things we did um was really look at how do we start to communicate issues like hunger in a way that makes sense and connects. And we started thinking, how could chefs be involved in this? And what we found was it was really interesting because as chef as we brought chefs into the conversation, they said, Well, we talk about food, we don't talk about hunger, we're we're almost the opposite of hunger. So I I had a few friends who are chefs with online presences, and they were like, We want to support what you're doing, but every time we put a photo of somebody hungry or an empty plate, we lose a thousand followers. And I was like, it's a really interesting concept because they said people come to our our feed to look at plates of beautiful food that we cook, and then we show something and say, We're gonna make you feel guilty. It doesn't work. So we started to play with this and we said, What if you flipped it and said, you know what, actually, what we're working for is good food for all. We're we're wanting people everywhere to have good food, and some people do, and some people don't. The people that do should be going, you know what, it makes me feel sad that not everyone can enjoy this. And so if you're hungry, that actually takes something away from me celebrating the amazing food that's in our world. And so we flip that, and all of a sudden it became a different conversation. It became a conversation about celebration and food, and that when you bring together celebration and food, no matter where you are, who you are, and what you're eating, where you're eating, food brings joy, it it expresses love, it communicates community, it talks about hard work that's happened from the people that have grown it to the people that have prepared it. So whether that's a bowl, I there was this one time we were in a school in Kenya with this same chef, and we were at a friend's feeding program. They they have a school feeding program, and there was the the kids were getting their plates of beans that uh a lady had prepared all morning. Um, there were kids everywhere, but these kids each came with a different shaped container, some had cups, bowls, plates. Um, they lined up, they got their their food, and then they ran and found somewhere to sit, and they were just so excited eating this food. And I just remember the sheer joy that we saw in so many faces with these beautifully simple dishes that were created with love, that were nutritious, that were amazing, and and it just showed that common humanity that we have. And so it just automatically changes the conversation from this isn't something you should feel guilty about. This is something you should feel maybe angry about that people don't have the same opportunity. You maybe should feel you know moved to do something about, but it's it's it's it's not a guilt thing. You shouldn't feel guilty that you enjoy food, you should feel guilty that not everyone else gets to enjoy food. And how do we work together to deliver that? So that's how I kind of got into it. And and and I started working in that space and then moved into the United Nations World Food Program, and then got asked to set up a network. And this network we've built over the last 10 years involves chefs in um over a hundred countries that are connected around a framework called the Chefs Manifesto, and it has eight simple areas uh that people can get involved in. We've also launched a campaign called Beans Is How and a number of other things, and so it's been this kind of journey through really connecting and understanding where how food uh fits into our world, the role that it plays, and then the more you learn, the more you realize food is so connected to every part of our society, and it's so critical. And I think as we go into the challenging world that we're we're seeing out there, it's becoming even more. You know, water is critical, and water connects to food and food and water, if they're not there, and as we've seen supply chains break in different parts of the world and challenges, prices going up, it becomes really challenging for people to thrive. And so this should be something that's common to all of us. If we eat the wrong foods, we get sick. That impacts our ability to contribute to society, to be healthy, to be able to do that, and it costs a lot. So, how do we think more about the food that we're putting in people's bodies? And this is where I think chefs are going to continue to grow in their role because chefs are really gonna be at the forefront of health conversations, at the forefront of you know, environmental conversations, at the forefront of cultural conversations, because sh food is so much connected to our identity, to the impacts that we're having on the planet, to the health and the impacts on human bodies.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

For the chefs that are listening that don't feel like they're educated enough to be that teacher, what are the resources that they should go to so they can start to become more of an expert when it comes to health, the environment, how they are supporting their clients?

SPEAKER_02 41:45

So I would say definitely the Chefs Manifesto Action Plan is an eight-point plan. Um, it's a framework of simple practical actions chefs can take in their own kitchens. And it's something that the chefs can pick up and they should be able to just look at straight away and go, oh, I'm already doing that. Oh, I could do that. So the idea is it's not designed to be something to say, no one's doing anything, let's all start together. It's saying chefs are already doing a huge amount in their kitchens, they're making decisions. Sometimes they don't have the framework or the language to express that in a way that connects to some of the sustainability um networks, and and I think this is really key. So it's things like how do we protect biodiversity and improve animal welfare? How do we invest in livelihoods, which is so critical for our industry? How do we value natural resources that we have? So the things we buy, how are we valuing them and thus reducing waste? How are we growing things? Where does our food come from? How are we educating people? Like these are really practical things which were designed by chefs for chefs, and then there's action chefs can take. In addition to that, I would say follow along Chefs Manifesto on Instagram. There's a there's a range of chefs engaged in that platform that come from all different parts of the world. And I think when we look across borders, we actually sometimes see things that we don't see in our own community, and partly it's because of perspective. It's just stuff right in front of us sometimes, just we get busy and we kind of take it for granted. And I know often when I bring chefs together, chefs will look at what another chef's doing and they'll be like, that is amazing. And the chef will be like, What are you talking about? I just this is every day for me. But partly that perspective is critical, and so I'd say if you are a chef, definitely follow along, look at some of those stories and learn from that. There's podcasts like this podcast that you should be listening to, there's there's books out there that you can be reading, lots of cookbooks, lots of other books, there's lots of reports coming out. So all of that is really critical. And I think with the tools we have now on social media, even AI, it's easy to get summaries. It's easy to summarize things and to take points and then apply them to what you're doing. So I think technology is really helping us in being able to be connected.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yeah, I completely agree. It's never, you know, it's the best time in history to learn and you know make better choices. You just have to figure out the question to ask or um put yourself in a place to open up and see new ways of doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Exactly. No, absolutely. And I think this is so critical. And I think, you know, asking questions, as you just said, is one of the first steps. You should be asking questions, continuously asking questions. And you know, when when I talk to chefs about how they learned, they often talk about the person they did their apprenticeship with, or they, you know, one of the things drilled into them was if you see something, ask. Like if you don't understand it, ask. If you don't know why someone something's being done, ask. And I think that's sometimes people get shy and they don't ask. And I think we have to ask questions. And I think questions are not a bad thing, they're actually incredibly important because no one has all the answers on this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Absolutely. Because no one's lived through this time before in this evolution. Yeah. So that's the only way we're going to be able to move through it and make better decisions.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

I'd love to ask you, I'm going to ask you some rapid-fire questions as we wrap up here. I want to know your personal thoughts on these questions.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

What is what yeah, what is one of your favorite superfoods?

SPEAKER_02 45:35

I would say phonio is pretty cool. Uh Chef Pierre Tiam has uh uh uh really championed that. Um, and uh phonio is an amazing food, super easy to grow, but highly nutritious. Um almost he he sometimes calls it the lazy food because it's it's so easy to grow and so easy to cook. So phonio is great and it's a small millet.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

What is one of the most underrated food people should be eating for their health?

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Beans, peas, and lentils.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Food everyone should avoid.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Too much of anything.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Your favorite spice?

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Mmm, good question. Probably chili.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Ooh. Just a classic chili powder or like a nice fresh or dried chili?

SPEAKER_02 46:15

A bit of everything. I've got about 10 chilies growing in my garden. I've got dried chili powder, I've got dried, I dehydrate all the extra chilies. So it's a little bit of uh all rounder.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yeah, it's it's the spice of life. It is, you know, the the form of the life, you know.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

I and I I'm a bit sometimes quite lazy in labeling my chilies, and I've got everything from like the incredibly hot to very mild, and so you throw something in it also creates potential for surprise.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, yeah. And chilies. Chilies are just fascinating in themselves and how their flavor changes where you grow them. They're just a very interesting plant.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

What is a health habit you've added this year that that you're really loving that's really working for you?

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Yoga.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

What's a food trend that you think is wrong or people should avoid?

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Too much protein. I think I've already said that.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

I know. It's okay. And then lastly, we touched on this a little earlier, coffee or tea?

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Coffee a hundred percent. I have a great espresso machine. I love Melbourne, it is a city of coffee, so it's one of the top.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

And you guys, do you guys serve your coffee in glass cups or um in mugs in a variety?

SPEAKER_02 47:33

It's a variety, but um, we do. I mean, obviously the flat white, the lattes would be in glass often. I mean, it depends. Melbourne started with a very strong Italian community that came over during you know, post-war. And so there's a huge Italian community that really influenced the coffee culture here, and then it's grown from there. And um, it's all espresso-based. It's one of the few countries in the world Starbucks actually closed outlets in. Um, so Starbucks pulled back to like four outlets um about five years ago because no one was buying Starbucks, because there's just such a lot, like even the gas stations will have good coffee. Like McDonald's changed its coffee in such a way, it's some of the best in the world. They introduced McCaffey because people responded and said your coffee's bad. Now it's one of the best in the world. So, like, there's these kind of the coffee culture is very strong, and um, it's really, really fascinating. But people use a majority, like a mixture of of of mugs. I just got a new mug, which is orange from Vietnam, and it's so I'm testing this out. It's got a weird texture on the outside, which is like and it's odd shaped, so it's like a very odd, yeah. Anyway, coffee mugs. I love coffee.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Yeah, the container that you drink your coffee or tea out of changes how it tastes. I'm a big, I'm a big tea and coffee drinker, and it that's what just one of the things I've been experimenting on over the years is you know, ceramic versus porcelain, like all the different materials that you drink it out of will make the same cup of tea or coffee taste completely different. It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

It's interesting, it's so interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Yeah. Only people that are really into food and beverage notice that it's like with silverware as well. I travel with always a fork and spoon and knife in my car because I don't like to eat food with plastic. Um, one, because I don't need to waste it, but two, you know, the the meal tastes better when you use a real fork. So why not just have one on you?

SPEAKER_02 49:42

I also like I would say those plastic cups, lids, I struggle with so much as well. You know, those tops on coffees, I just hate it.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Yes, you you aren't you aren't alone.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Yeah, you aren't alone. It's it's interesting. Japan has some of the best pottery, I would say, for drinking out of Japanese ceramics. I they're just beautiful and the textures and yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Well, last question. If someone listening wants to improve their health through food, what is one change that you suggest they make?

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Add beans, peas, and lentils to your meal once a day for a week and push through and it will have a massive impact. I mean, it from the blue zones conversation with you know, the blue zones, it's one of the key things. From most uh scientific dietary advice and nutritional advice, they will say eat more. So I would say find a way to include half a cup of beans, peas, or lentils each day in your diet, and your body will thank you for it.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Well, where can people learn about Chef's Manifesto? Where can people continue to learn from you and you know continue to evolve how they're approaching food and supporting the environment?

SPEAKER_02 50:54

So um on the Chef's Manifesto, if you go to chefsmanifesto.com, you'll find um all the information there. Um beansishow.org as well, you'll find uh the information on our beans campaign. Um, if you want to follow along, I have a podcast as well called Future Fork, um, where I talk to people, scientists um and others around these kinds of issues. And so um we'd love to see you over there as well, and you'll kind of be exposed a little bit to the world that of people that I hang out with. I talk to lots of chefs as well as scientists, politicians, different groups of people all around our food system.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Is there a particular theme that you're finding and that each one of these you know experts and chefs and um industry leaders are bringing up this year?

SPEAKER_02 51:41

There is a lot of conversation around water and the impacts around water because water is such a is is probably gonna become one of the big conflict hotspots around the world. Access to water. So foods that use a lot of water to grow are gonna become more challenging, and so this is happening in all kinds of ways. We're seeing it also in the tech side with AI and data centers using lots of water, and that's coming into conflict with agriculture, and so I think you're gonna see this happen in different parts of the world. I was uh do talking to the head of the World Food Program the other day about the Mekong Delta, for example, and and and potential conflicts around water. That's a water system which goes through nine countries, and so some of these things around water, you know, there's a conflict in in um Sudan at the moment around water, like a lot of water, I think, is gonna continue to become a challenge for our planet, access to water as populations continue to grow, as nature continues to be challenged. How do we have the water to grow the food that we need? And how do we have the water to be able to also invest in the industries we want to? And I think this is gonna become a challenge across countries. So I think water is starting to emerge. I think on the food side, there's obviously um a lot of dialogue around different ingredients and different um dietary guidelines happening around the world. Um, I think you know, diversification is key. Um, I'd love to see that continue to come out. There is also a bit of a push towards um what's happening uh as an impact of conflict. So what's going on in the in the strait at the moment um and what the impact that will have on our world at the moment is a big concern. So the the whole the the the Strait of Hermos uh you know is a key area for agricultural inputs, not just oil. So there's a lot of fertilizer and agricultural inputs that are stuck at the moment, and the last ship got through I think it was back in February or March, and so the planting season's coming up, and they're really worried. So a friend of mine's the chief economist at the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN, and he's done some really interesting um uh research around the potential impacts on our food system. So there's a lot of food from the US through to Africa that will be massively impacted if these um commodities, if these uh ingredients don't get through to um feed into fertilizers and planting seasons. So um major issues there.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

So I think that will become an issue this year if it continues, if it if we're I'm so glad you bring it up because I don't think I don't think most people understand how global issues are affecting their food system, right? Because they only see what's at their grocery store, what's at their farmer's market, and they don't understand. I think sometimes that this truly is a global economy. None of us are siloed anymore. And there are there are food and ingredients being traded that are affecting us in ways that we don't know because the system's so big and complex. So thank you for bringing that up.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Yeah, I mean it's availability and it's also cost. So I was reading that the US, for example, most people in in big agriculture, you know, pre-purchased their fertilizer. 80% of Americans locked in, American farmers locked in their fertilizer costs. The 20% that didn't are moving away from corn and and and growing corn to soy. And the reason for that is because soy is a is a pulse which then fert self-fertilizes. It has like a way of bringing nitrogen into the soil because they can't afford to buy the fertilizer. So there's this like interesting shift as well. What will that mean? If 20% of farms aren't growing corn, they grow soy, you're gonna have more soy, less corn, what does that do to global food supply? So, like that's just a very simple example, well, not simple, but a very specific example from the US. But that's happening all over. Smallholder farmers that rely on this who can now no longer afford it will either struggle to get any yield because they won't have those inputs, or they they and that that could and most farmers are on the edge constantly of debt issues, and you know, so this is not it can put them out of business.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Yeah, which will shift something in everyone's, you know, environment in ways that we just don't understand because it's all overlapping and we're all connected now. So it's super fascinating. And so I'm really grateful for the work that you're doing, uh, for continuing to educate chefs and anyone who loves food and basically everyone who eats. So thank you. Chef's manifesto is a brilliant idea, it's a great project, and I love the work that you guys are doing with beans too. So, you know, thank you. Happy to continue to spread the word and get more beans on people's plates.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

I appreciate it. Thanks so much. This has been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

My pleasure. Take care, Paul.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the High Vibration Living Podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, I'd love for you to leave a five-star rating and a written review wherever you're listening. It truly helps this podcast reach more people who are looking for this kind of support. And if something resonated with you, please pay it forward and share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it. To learn more about Starseed Kitchen in my organic spice blends, you can visit starseedkitchen.com. You can also follow along with me on social media at Whitney Aronoff, where I share recipes, behind the scenes, chef life, and everyday inspiration. You can also follow Starseed Kitchen and Team Starseed Kitchen on Instagram as well. Thanks again for being here, wishing you nourishment, balance, and a vibrant life experience. I'll see you in the next episode. Cheers.