Grace Period
Welcome to our laid-back Christ Lutheran podcast, where we chat about faith, real life, and all the messy, beautiful moments in between. Think of it like sitting down with friends over a drink—sharing stories, asking big questions, laughing at ourselves, and leaning into God’s grace as we sort out what it means to follow Jesus in the everyday. No sermons, no pressure—just honest conversation, a little humor, and plenty of room for wonder. This podcast is brought to you by Christ Lutheran Church of Visalia, California.
Grace Period
Inside the World of MAT: A conversation with Michael Lingenfelter.
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This week, we sit down with Christ Lutheran Church member Michael Lingenfelter for a conversation about his journey to becoming an MAT practitioner and the important work he does helping people in recovery.
Michael brings clarity to what MAT actually is, shares the heart behind his work, and talks honestly about walking alongside people during some of the most difficult moments of their lives.
It’s a meaningful conversation about vocation, compassion, second chances, and what it looks like to truly help people heal.
Welcome, welcome to the Grace Period Podcast, where we gather for honest conversations about faith, everyday life, and the grace that carries us through it all. Think of this podcast like friends sitting down over a cup of coffee, sharing stories, laughing at ourselves, and leaning into God's grace together. Expect honesty, humor, and a space to ask hard questions. No sermons here, just a good old conversation. Grace Period Podcast. Making room for grace in real life. And this podcast is brought to you by Christ Lutheran Church here in Visalia, California. My name is Noel Thompson, and today I have my a friend here, Michael Lingenfelter.
SPEAKER_00You got the last name.
SPEAKER_01Did I get the last name right? Very good. So I have a story. Josh isn't here today, and I pronounced I was a best man at Josh's wedding. Okay. And up until like two days before his wedding, I learned that I was pronouncing his last name wrong for like a couple years. In fact, I threw that little fun fact in my best man story. I don't have that gift of either remembering names or saying names.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, you started off on the right foot here. There you go.
SPEAKER_01I am curious though, the origin of your last name. Is there a story there at all?
SPEAKER_00Uh I it's German. German. And there is a town in Germany called Lingenfeldt. And so that's where it's from. I'm a Lingenfeld turk.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There you go.
SPEAKER_01Have you ever been to that town?
SPEAKER_00I've never been to Europe at all.
SPEAKER_01You got to go to that town.
SPEAKER_00At some point, I will. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll just expect be like, well, I'm here now, everybody. Obviously.
SPEAKER_01Because you're a traveler. I know a little bit about that from you. Uh work brings you to, you know, you travel because of work. We'll talk about that later. But if you have a town kind of named after you, or you're named after a town, you got to visit that town.
SPEAKER_00Gotta do it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The only thing my family's named after is a cemetery on the native reservation. Thompsonville Cemetery. And Josh has been there. It does say Thompsonville. Now, I had a uh I did a podcast with my friend Michael Seeloff, my childhood friend. And a lot of that conversation, I don't know if you listened to that, was nicknames, but how you know preferences on what we want to be called. So are you a Mike? Are you a Michael? Are you a Mikey? I mean, where where where do you lie in that kind of category?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I've never uh up until a few years ago had to uh uh make a stand. Uh but I've got to I've been asked enough to where I was like, well, I think people call me Michael more often than not, so that seems more comfortable. And then if you're a high school buddy, it was Lingy. So you know you can go by Lingy or Michael, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so Michael though, for the most part. Yeah, when your parents, when you're in trouble with their parents, what do they say?
SPEAKER_00Michael Thomas Lingenfeld. Oh, the full government name, yes, yeah. Michael Thomas, okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's interesting. Like I said, I I know people that just go by Mike. I know people that could just go by Michael. I mean, you gotta ask sometimes because I don't know. I was curious. I was thinking about this pod. I was like, ooh, I wonder which one he goes by.
SPEAKER_00Michael, and then in elementary school, the since there were so many of us, Michael L.
SPEAKER_01Michael L.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. There's too many Michaels.
SPEAKER_01Did you ever get fun of because you're your last name is unique? Yeah, do you ever get made fun of for your last name?
SPEAKER_00I never got made fun of it, but my baseball coaches in high school would go with like whatever they came out of their mouth at that time. Rosenbagger was there with the one from um I forget the movie, uh Samlock Rookie of the Year.
SPEAKER_01Rookie of the Year, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yes, um, but yeah, whatever came out of their mouth at the time was that's funny.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh well, Michael has listened to the pod. You've actually commented a few times on some of our pods. So I really appreciate you for joining us and excited for our conversation later because to kind of give people a preview, you do something I no offense, I didn't know existed really up until like I met you, I think. And so I think that's really cool and unique. And you do it here locally, you do it at um, I wasn't gonna say my gym, but you do it at you do it at the gym, and so um but Michael has decided to join us for a national bit day, which is you know, it's interesting. I I do have people come up to me or text me or email me about their comments on national days, and and uh so this is this is always fun. We are recording on Thursday, May 7th, and uh to start it off here, I got some hot takes, Michael. I don't know if you're ready for somebody's hot takes me, but uh today is National Tourism Day. Okay, now for those of you who have traveled with me, I I love traveling, but I hate being a tourist. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00Expand.
SPEAKER_01I'm a more of like a mom and pop person, I don't want to go to the place where all the tourists are at. I want to find the the restaurant or I don't know, sightseeing thing that's in the alley that's literally off the beaten track.
SPEAKER_00Like you want to be a part of where you're at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I want to immerse myself into like yeah, the culture. And so um that's kind of one of my least favorite things about our Thailand trip is like those last three or four days, we do kind of play tourists, and a part of me does enjoy it, but also like I just see a lot of tourists there, and I'm like, uh, I don't know. And so I love traveling, but I hate being a tourist. Also, that's kind of my not hot take, but that's just that's just something that I just I'm very much uh passionate about. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00I could understand that. Yeah, and if it feels like there's a a risk reward to uh going somewhere, especially if you've never been there before, right? Like the the risk of of wanting to be a part of everything is you're probably not going through any organization and you're probably off a beaten path, and there's a lot more adventure um versus the the guaranteed reward of well, there's gonna be good food, good places, and I'm doing the tourist thing.
SPEAKER_01And that's where Pastor Bryan, I think that Ireland trip came back like yesterday or the day before. He has done now multiple trips overseas in Europe, and his trips are the exact opposite of the trips I lead to Thailand. He goes through a company. It's like you're you're that group that follows someone with a sign, you know what I mean, that has like a flagpole. And it's like, but people get comfort out of that because they have everything scheduled for themselves, they just literally gotta wake up and follow the leader, right? And I get that. I think there I understand how there's comfort in that, but that's just not me. Like, I gotta roam, baby. I gotta roam and like, oh, what's that store? And I want to be able to have the flexibility of walking down that alley and being like, What's this?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, I would be I would be closer to that. So are you closer to it? I would definitely prefer that. Yeah, and now with I mean, uh the internet and AI, though, I'll show up to a place and just be like, all right, put together a schedule for me of cool things around here.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. Oh, yeah, the internet's great. But here's a question for you what is one very touristy thing that you've gone to, and you're kind of like, yeah, this is worth it.
SPEAKER_00Uh Disneyland in uh China recently. Okay, but yeah, it will it. I mean, anytime we were in China was uh a lot of touristy stuff up front, but yeah, yeah, the the the the going to Hong Kong and then and then Disneyland Hong Kong and just being like you know what you're getting into, right? It's gonna be different, but yeah, it's was a great experience nonetheless.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a few temples in Bangkok that are just so touristy, but when I go there, I'm kind of like this is legit. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, this is kind of cool. Yeah, I also think of like the Golden Gate Bridge. Every time I'm on the like near the Golden Gate, I'm like, this is so touristy, but at the same time, I can't stop looking at it. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, there is a part where I'm like, and then uh Big Sur, me and my son drove down the one in Big Sur this whole time. It's crowded, right? But then I'm like, this is unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a reason why it's a tourist attraction.
SPEAKER_01I know, so there's a part of me that's like, okay, there's a reason. Yeah, you gotta appreciate it. Like the giant trees, the sequoias, you're up there, and you're like, yeah, okay, this is this is cool. So, all right. Um, one of the more serious things is good, it's also today's National Children's Mental Health Awareness Day. And I just wanted to add that because I think um obviously mental health is important, not just for adults, but also in children too. And so, obviously, here at the podcast, we support that. And so um, Children's Mental Health Awareness Day uh shout out to that, May 7th.
SPEAKER_00No hot takes on that one. No hot takes on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that one pretty straightforward. No hot takes, but then this next one, it's uh I feel like only in a Lutheran podcast can we talk about this next one, which is great. This is one of the main reasons why I'm Lutheran. National Home Brew Day.
SPEAKER_00Is that coffee? Is that what we're doing?
SPEAKER_01No, it's it's brewing well. Actually, you know what? All right, so I guess we're we're we're showing our cars. Immediately we're showing where our brains are at. Uh I was thinking brewing beer. Okay, yeah. Okay, so we had a member here. Um, he moved away just because of like uh the air quality. Like he moved up to like Eureka, where like God's country. Yeah, he was, I want to say at the minimum, vice president, but I think he was the president of the California Homebrew Association. I did not know there was such a thing. Yeah, and his garage, his garage had like four fridges with like four taps, and he was a master homebrewer, literally. And for those of you who are listening, I you might sorry, story time might come back.
SPEAKER_00All right, honestly.
SPEAKER_01He approached me like I want to say 12 years ago, he approached me after church and he said, Hey, I want to do a fundraiser for the youth ministry. I said, Sweet, you know, and he was like, I will donate like six of my beers, like six kegs, and I was like, Oh, you know, and then I'm like, oh boy, like, and I knew it was quality stuff, but then he was like, My house is small, but he was like, You find me a backyard and we'll do a beer tasting fundraiser, and I'm like, This is a wild idea. Yeah, I'm kind of new here at the church at that time, so I go to Pastor Brian, who's the pastor here, and I was like, Hey, I have this like crazy idea, but at the same time, like people were willing to donate, like, not much expense on our end. And Pastor Brian was like, Let's do it. Wow, so up for a long time, I was known as the the beer tasting fundraiser youth pastor in my cell. It was a great event, actually. We found a backyard, he donated like six of his beers. We raised a ton of money, it was awesome. There you go.
SPEAKER_00Wild idea paid off.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was good. So, uh, and uh I brewed a beer, I brewed with him one time, and it was a crazy scene because people are just driving by and they're seeing on the stainless steel, thinking, like, what is going on?
SPEAKER_00I've never seen that process.
SPEAKER_01It's actually really cool. That's it's pretty cool. So, National Home Brew Day. I talked about that a little bit longer than I wanted to, but and then tomorrow, May 8th. Say that first one for me, Michael, because I have a hot take for this one. I'll let you lead it off.
SPEAKER_00The National Coconut Cream Pie Day.
SPEAKER_01There is not a that's the most overrated pie in the history of the world. I don't even know.
SPEAKER_00I don't even know if I've had coconut cream pie.
SPEAKER_01Well, you would know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. You think it's overrated? I think it's overrated. I think it's one of the best pies I've ever had in my life.
SPEAKER_01You just said you didn't know if you had one.
SPEAKER_00I changed my mind.
SPEAKER_01No, there's so many better pies out there. What would be your I have come around on the coconut flavor. Like, I didn't enjoy almond joys until about two years ago. Okay, so I I'm turning a corner on the coconut.
SPEAKER_00Coconuts kind of gotten to everything, anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be banana cream pie. That would be my like that's if I've had a cream pie, I think it's it's really good.
SPEAKER_01I think I'm with you with the banana cream pie, but coconut cream pie, nope. This next one's a weakness. Uh, this is a podcast where we uh admit our struggles, we admit our temptations, we we admit our weaknesses, and this next one is a weakness. It's national have a coke day tomorrow. I like for me, when I go to a taco truck and I order a burrito, the best combo with that is an ice cold Coca-Cola. Can has to be a can.
SPEAKER_00Is that for being more bubbly, more cooking? I don't know. I I nostalgia.
SPEAKER_01Couldn't tell you the science behind it. But I love like for me, uh one of the best duos out there is a burrito and a can of coke. Okay. I'm a I'm a sucker for a very, very cold can of Coca-Cola. Where do you stand on the on the soda? Are you a soda drinker?
SPEAKER_00Uh no. I I'll have a diet soda every once in a while, but I stopped drinking soda a while ago. Um, but yeah, I still do enjoy like if I go to like in and out or something like that, I'll be like, it's the day today. We're gonna drink, we're gonna get the fountain drink.
SPEAKER_01I I'm I'm so I don't know if anybody out there is like this, but I I'm either really great or really bad. I can go four weeks without having a soda, but then I'll go to In N Out and I'll have like six refills of Coke, and the monster comes back. But you know what I mean? Yeah, like that I'm about to sit here and say it's like the least favorite part of myself, but it is a part of myself I've recognized is like I could do really well for a long time, but then yeah, I'll go to In N Out and it's free refills, and then before you know it, I've had like three refills of Coke, and I'm like, what am I doing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so out of sight, out of mind, kinda, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's why I like you know, the I I I try to not go to places with free refills, or I just limit myself.
SPEAKER_00Just tell the person at the counter.
SPEAKER_01I have amazing self-control, and I have amazing, horrible self-control. Oh, maybe are you like that at all? I maybe uh maybe I'm the only one out there, people. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely not. Okay, yeah, I would say majority of probably have their own. You think so? Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I thank you for making me feel better, of course. Um, also, tomorrow I have a hot take on this. I love this. No socks day.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Now, I kind of wish we did have video.
SPEAKER_00I have socks on. Do you have socks though? I'm just there under there.
SPEAKER_01So are they socks if they're just like okay?
SPEAKER_00Here's the question though. Are we framing this as no socks, like in general, or no socks with shoes? Very different thing, in my opinion. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01Yep, and I I I gotta I gotta tread lightly here because my wife is listening and I gotta be careful. If it was up to my wife, she would be barefoot all day, every day. I mean, she kind of grew up in the country, she's just that's just how she lives. And when I kind of like found that out about her, I I I questioned some things. Okay, well, in Minnesota, you know, you're gonna get frostbite, yeah. Literally, like, yeah, your feet will go bye-bye. And so, um, that's a great question. Yeah, people shout out to my dad. Uh I always gave my dad crap for this. People who wear shoes without socks, I gotta, I gotta know what's what's the deal. Yeah, but here's my question though. So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm not I'm gonna I'm gonna respectively call you out here.
SPEAKER_00Yes, please.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't look like you're wearing socks at all, and so the fact that the the shoe is touching your ankle, yes, it kind of stresses me out. Okay, so at the minimum, I need ankle socks.
SPEAKER_00You need ankle socks, yeah. See, I have warm, I have warm body, warm feet. And so the more the more uh uh cotton that's on my foot, it's just like it gets too hot. Really? And so summer times here, yeah. Ankle, low socks. I'm I would be I'm barefoot at home a lot as well.
SPEAKER_01So so you're you're in favor of of no socks.
SPEAKER_00100%. I think if you grew up in the valley, you might lean a little bit more towards and I think that's where my wife kind of got it from.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Now here's my question as a parent. Um actually, you know what? That's not May 9th. We'll talk about that May 9th. Sorry. To to give people heads up, tomorrow is lost sock memorial day. But I had a I had a question for you on that one. Uh, May 8th is Victory in Europe Day. And the reason why I included that is because my my grandfather was a vet, and he actually kind of like toasted on this day, so VE Day, Victory in Europe. So shout out to that. Um, May 9th. May 9th. Oh, geez, which is Saturday, big day here in Visalia, by the way. Uh, we have the Swedish pancake breakfast here in Christ Truth from Church, world famous. It's actually a big deal, and then it's also prom. So I don't know if you knew that or not. If you're if you're planning on going out to eat on dinner time on Saturday, on dinner time, I will not probably die. Uh prom is taking over, and so um, so shout out to the people going out to prom. Um, but yeah, May 9th is Alphabet Magnet Day. Oh gosh, which I mean, I think uh very do you?
SPEAKER_00Yes, we used to, yeah. Um, we used to. It helps me out a lot when I forget.
SPEAKER_01I feel like uh every parent has had I mean, really, like May 9th is a big parent day. Uh it's Alphabet Magnet Day, and then here's here's the thing I was gonna ask you. Yes, May 9th is lost sock memorial.
SPEAKER_00Might be my favorite one that I've heard on this so far. Really? This is one that really irks me of just a disappearing.
SPEAKER_01So my wife will literally like she'll look for a little bit. So here's this is kind of what I was gonna ask you. Have you just stopped looking? You just bought more.
SPEAKER_00Yes, at some point I stopped looking, but here's the thing I don't think I ever get rid of the one so I have in my drawer I've got 10 one socks, and just in case other one comes home.
SPEAKER_01This is where uh like Amazon kind of comes in clutch because I told my wife, I go, just buy the same one all the time. Because they're you know what I mean, like the odds are eventually if you buy 3,000 of them, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Just don't get the left and right ones, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, like that's where you get the special stripes or whatever. But yeah, nothing makes me more frustrating, I think, or frustrated, sorry, than than like losing clothes almost, like, but yeah, socks, yeah. Uh shout out to Rachel. I endorse it. I'm like, just buy some more. Like, what are we doing here? We're wasting so much energy, yeah, or just go no socks. No, yeah, no. See, now we're no, we're we're we're backpedaling here, but yeah, May 9th, we're gonna we're gonna um give a shout out, or we're gonna I don't know, take a second in silence for all the lost socks out there. I don't know. Um, National Babysitter Day, May 9th. So uh shout out to the babysitters out there.
SPEAKER_00They're huge, yeah. Well, as far as their um importance in my life currently, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you've hired a few youth to babysit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So shout out to Molly.
SPEAKER_01Shout out Molly, who was on the first ever podcast here. Yeah, babysitters are great. Um, yeah. Uh my wife used to babysit, and and uh Luca Luca's kind of got into the babysitting thing, and uh Luca babysat for a family, and uh she came home with X amount of money. My my wife was like frustrated because it was like 300 more than what my wife made when she was younger, and so um yeah, I was shocked, but what is the going right for babysitting? I don't even know, it probably depends on things, but yeah, I think it's like three million. Yeah, I don't know, probably depends on how long, what type of day, what time of day. Yeah, are you paying for the meal? But um, but I just found out from one of our youth. I think this someone in Visalia holds babysitting classes, really, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I'm gonna have to find them so I can get referrals.
SPEAKER_01It's like a I'm not gonna say who, but it's an eighth grader in our youth group. She just completed a babysitting class. I don't know if it was through the city or through like someone who does it, I'm not sure, but I I didn't know that existed. Yeah, but then I was either I was actually impressed that it does exist. So shout out to to that. So and then every I don't know, kid's favorite trains. May 9th is national train day. Were you as as a kid, were you were you more of a plane person? Were you more of a Lego person? Like, you know, yeah, Lincoln Logs, or were you trained?
SPEAKER_00Where did you kind of I definitely wasn't trained, I definitely wasn't airplane. I think I just liked any sort of building thing, so yeah, like your Legos, yeah, or whatever I think aspects of being able to build things together, but like automobiles or anything that drove or flew was never really of interest to me.
SPEAKER_01I was more of a ship person, a ship person, yeah. Which we would now people might be like, Oh, you're from Minnesota, but we would drive two hours north to Duluth, the Great Lake of Lake Superior, and I would see ships coming and going. So easily I was more of a ship person, not really trained, my sons are into trains, um, but I wasn't really into trains or cars, but I was into ships and planes. Okay, yeah, so I wasn't really a builder, so yeah, I have heard many times, and I feel bad. I haven't brought my kids there, but the train museum in Sacramento, I heard is a place to go to if you are into trains. Okay, I heard it's like one of the best, at least in the West Coast. So out of all five of them, yeah. Honestly, that's a great point. Who knows? I think five you might be too generous with five. Um, but my boys are into planes, so we've done a lot of different um air museums, but yeah, trains, trains are cool. I don't know. Yeah, um, so shout out to the trains. Okay, oh Thomas the Train.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's my middle name. There we go. There we go.
SPEAKER_01I was actually into Thomas the Train. Um fun fact here. Yeah, I I just decided to bring this back because I was like, we haven't done it in a while. Fun fact, honey literally never expires. Literally never expires, honey. Archaeologists have found pots of honey in ancient Egypt Egyptian tombs that were over 3,000 years old and still safe to eat.
SPEAKER_00How do they know? Who was the guy in there?
SPEAKER_01Like, hey, we're on that was my question to you. So, all right, so so Michael, we have a jar of honey found in the pyramid here. Yeah, how I mean, honestly, how much money would it take for you to eat a spoonful of that honey?
SPEAKER_00I mean, what was there anything done to test anything out beforehand? What is my ratio of something possibly happening?
SPEAKER_01So, here's why, and I'm not saying I believe this, because as you may have heard, I'm I'm a I'm a borderline, very much a conspiracy theorist here. Because honey has very little water and is naturally acidic. Bacteria can't really grow in it. Bacteria can't really grow in it. Yeah, so while most foods go bad in weeks or months, honey can basically. Basically, there's some like key words here that are already throwing doubt in my mind. Honey can basically last forever if it's if it's sealed properly.
SPEAKER_00Which again, I mean oh so you're telling me that those the three thousand years ago, they came up also with something that could uh conceal it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which honey, which honestly feels like something straight out of the Bible. Yeah, milk and honey abundance. Okay, so again, Michael, we just found a 3,000-year-old jar of honey. Yeah, that looks properly sealed.
SPEAKER_00Basically.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, basically. Can't really, right? How much money would it take for you to eat a tablespoon out of it?
SPEAKER_00Zero. I mean, no, no, no, no. There's no I don't I don't oh, I don't know if there is an amount. I don't know if there is an amount because if the option is like you could get deathly sick, I'm just like, well, I don't care that much, but I'm sure if you got up there high enough, I would say yeah, but I'd be like a million dollars. Can I let the rat try it first? No, no, it's it's you first million dollars, one million one tablespoon. How much am I doing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh a little spoonful.
SPEAKER_00I'd probably do it. Yeah, a million dollars, and then I'm throwing up an hour later. I'd do it.
SPEAKER_01I I'd be I would do it. Yeah, a million dollars, yeah. I think so. My fears where I've seen I think I've seen too many movies where it's like the mummy, or I don't know. I'm just about to say you turn into a million. That's what I'm saying. I I curse isn't hell again. I've seen too many, too much Hollywood kind of make fun of this where I'm like, hmm, but I mean, I don't know. A million dollars, I would taste 3,000-year-old honey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, that's good news because I'm we're a big honey family.
SPEAKER_01Are you really?
SPEAKER_00We love honey, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it wasn't until I came, I it wasn't until I moved out here where I again ag Minnesota, right? But I didn't know that there was like different kinds of honey, you know what I mean? Like, because we have a person here who here at the church that would give the church staff members honey, and he'd be like, Oh, this is uh orange blossom honey, this is almond blossom honey. And a part of me is like, What? But sure enough, I would taste it, and I'm like, Golly, yeah, like I can I can taste the difference. So my favorite is orange blossom honey.
SPEAKER_00It's good.
SPEAKER_01Do you have a favorite honey?
SPEAKER_00I don't. One that's not too hard, so I can spread it on what I want easily. Oh, okay. Because if for some reason, if you leave certain ones in containers, not yeah, basically properly sealed, um, they get hardened.
SPEAKER_01I I honestly only really use honey for tea. Do you put it on food a lot?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we use it pretty much as like uh one of our main sweeteners because we try to stay away from a lot of processed sugars. Yep. Um, so like on my son's uh peanut butter toast, but yeah, like in um smoothies we make, like anything that we're adding sweetener to.
SPEAKER_01My brother was a huge peanut butter and honey toast guy.
SPEAKER_00Just this just today for lunch, Bo got a honey, peanut butter, and banana burrito. A ban have you heard of a banana burrito? I no, but you could probably get the gist, probably, yeah. Tast peanut butter, honey, roll it up.
SPEAKER_01Add that to can of coke. I think we're in a bit, we're in business here. My brother would actually also. I'm sorry, Kyle. I'm throwing you under the bus here. He would he would dip his chicken nuggets into honey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a thing. They have hot honey sauce for the nuggets, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, now I'm seeing a lot of hot honey on like uh pizzas, like very kind of I don't know, hippie pizza places, they'll have like hot honey.
SPEAKER_00I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty good. I've never tried it, but now I'm interested in trying honey pizza.
SPEAKER_01Oh, like hot honey with like a pepperoni and jalapeno, sweet and savory. I don't know. Yeah, we talked a lot about honey. We talked more about honey than I ever thought we would. So a million dollars. So, okay, so what about a hundred thousand dollars?
SPEAKER_00The three thousand-year-old honey, yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, is is a million the lowest?
SPEAKER_00Probably close to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My life's worth, at least to my family, hopefully.
SPEAKER_01Uh more than I might do it for 500k. 500k, you got me. I don't know what that says about me, but 500k, I think I'll try that honey.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah. Well, if it comes in.
SPEAKER_01Now, would it here's a question though? Would it be easier for you to put it in something, that 3000-year-old honey? Or would it be you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00It I don't think it matters. I think it's just it goes in, and that's the problem that matters.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. If you put it in a shake or something, I think I would probably do it for less because then I I kind of wouldn't know it, you know. So all right, well, that's enough about honey. I don't know. I love honey though, gotta add it more to my life. I don't put it in my shakes, like my pro my protein shakes or anything. I gotta try that. Yeah, that was actually a really good idea. But um, yeah. So, Michael, you have a job here. We've kind of done this on the podcast. We've brought in, I guess you can call it our vocation series. We've had Paul Delgado come in here, talk about his passion for music. Um, recently we had one of my good friends, Nathan, and the California Highway Patrol, and again, we're we're kind of lining up a bunch of other people, but you have a job, and I don't mean this disrespectfully, but I kind of did not know existed until you said it. But then, you know, I um I saw your social media, your Instagram page, and I I watched the videos, and then I'm just like, yeah, this guy's on to something. Like, there's there's legit, obviously, reason for it. Um, and so you are a I'm gonna read it here. You are a muscle activation techniques practitioner.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that is now.
SPEAKER_01Talk to us like we're five, and it kind of talks for and that's that's my new phrase, by the way, is talk to me like I'm five. So do me a favor and talk to the listeners about what that is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, so muscle activation techniques is a modality, just like uh chiropractor is a modality, strength training is a modality, muscle activation techniques is just a modality. Um, and it's a part, a big part of my business. And yeah, the reason why you've never heard about it is because in the last 11, 12 years, I'm the only person in the Central Valley who um has done this. So people in San Francisco and down in Los Angeles, but um I've been the one person here. So um what is it, right? Yeah, the easiest bridge uh to draw a line between is if chiropractors are like the uh bone doctor people that are looking to make improvements um when things aren't aligned or balanced. I do something similar, but with the muscle and nervous system. So I am able to go in and find what we'll call them weak links, your inability to use certain muscles or access certain muscles and give you better access to them. And that is like the briefest, right? I am I find weak links you're unaware of from the muscular side and improve your ability to connect.
SPEAKER_01Would it be fair to say you're a chiropractor for muscles and nervous system, or is that too much of a stretch?
SPEAKER_00Too much of a stretch, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I was talking to you before you record, you were born and raised in Fresno. Correct. And uh, did you go to high all the way through high school in Fresno?
SPEAKER_00Yep, went through high school in Fresno and then uh Fresno State moved down south.
SPEAKER_01Moved down south. Where where did this passion for this job kind of come from? Yeah, uh talk about talk to us about that. At what age and and stuff like that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so you're gonna learn some stuff about me right now. Let's do it. Yeah, I'm ready. Let's I'm ready. So um, being being in sports throughout high school, uh, I always was also interested in um strength training in the health and fitness world. And then after college, I actually moved down south to LA and I danced professionally for some yeah. Did you really? Yes, I did hip hop and break dance.
SPEAKER_01No way, yep. My I wish my wife was here because she that's what she does. She's a dance teacher. Hip hop and what breakdancing was what most of the jobs I so you're telling me you could have busted moved during one of these worship services, and you we would have no idea. Yeah, were you a dancer your whole life?
SPEAKER_00No, it wasn't it wasn't until I think I was like 14 or 15. Uh just got uh I had I have an uncle who is a producer and he was like, Hey, you want to be in a commercial? And I was like, Yeah, that sounds awesome. He was like, She's gonna be in the background dancing, and it's gonna be a high school party, whatever for God's chalks. Uh, and and I said, Great. And then everybody that showed up there was an amazing dancer, and I was like, What's going on? Like, well, we do this at so-and-so in Fresno, and you should come check it out. So I did that at 14 for the first time, took a hip-hop class, and uh I enjoyed the being able to. I always wanted to like be able to move, like music would come on and be like, they look really cool. Yeah, and I'm like, I can't look close to cool. Uh, and so that opened the door, and uh, once I got into that studio, the owner of the studio was like, Hey, you're a boy, we've got like five of those here. You'll never have to pay for a class, but you also have to take some that I want you to. So that led me to like end up getting on a competition team. We traveled and then I taught dance, hip-hop, break dance for like six, seven years.
SPEAKER_01So that just kind of led to just doors being opened, about doors being open.
SPEAKER_00And then, yeah, and then um my friend uh who was at the studio with me, he got on So You Think You Can Dance.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and he made it like the top 10 and moved to LA. And right after I'd like graduated college, he's like, by the way, uh, I have a room that's opening, and uh, if you want to come down, and at that point in my life, I was just like not knowing what to do, wandering. I just got a business degree because I was told to, and that sounded like a lot of fun. So I just pretty much moved to LA and stayed there for six years, working in restaurants, doing auditions, and yeah.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So you graduate college, you go to LA to dance, and then at some point you kind of stopped doing that. I broke my back. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, well, that's that makes it sound bigger than it is. But when I was up there, I fractured my back and ankle, um, not dance related. I was up in the mountain mountains, um, and uh not doing smart stuff took a big fall. Yeah, and that put me in like a wheelchair back brace for a little while. And during that time is when I was like, Well, what do I want to do? Yeah, and I always liked uh fitness and health, and so I got a personal training certification, went back to LA, started working at a gym, um, and then came home probably about six months later because I realized how uh toxic LA was in comparison when I came back home for a while. Yeah, so that led me into the health and fitness space, and then having the injury of my own was this itch that was being scratched while I came across clients who are like, we always have to work around this thing that you have trouble with, as opposed to trying to improve the thing that you're showing.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. So, I mean, obviously, dance is is a sport, and claim that right here, right now. Um, but that's very much fitness and obviously muscle related. Then you you have an injury, and a back injury is just oh, I threw my back out once, and I was like, I immediately was like, This is insane how it cripples you. I mean, literally. So you come back home, and then with the injury and your passion already for fitness, you kind of discovered this area that's kind of needed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I so in in my when I came back home, I was still doing just personal training, strength training stuff, and I came across somebody who went uh to college with a guy who created muscle activation techniques. He actually was a conditioning coach for Fresno State football and ended up being in the exercise world and physical therapy world, and still having issues and being like, what are we doing here? And where something's missing came up with muscle activation techniques. Yeah, she was like, There's this thing, nobody is doing it around here. It's gonna take quite a bit of time and money uh if you want to, but there's a large demand of people who need help, and this is something that she had seen work wonders. And so that was my introduction to it. And at the time it was set up where you could do a three-month um jump start course, basically, getting your feet wet in this. And so I traveled to like San Francisco, Chicago, and somewhere else for the three months, and then I got treated for the first time by a practitioner. And after that, it was an experience of like, oh my gosh, this is so different than anything. I had like a sprained ankle at that time that I had just sprained a week or two before. I got treated and I was running two miles the next day. Wow, yeah. And so I was like, man, this is this is this is different. Yeah. Um, and so from then it became another five years of education um back and forth to Denver to get where I'm at now.
SPEAKER_01So is what you do more preventative care, or is it more post-injury or or post-surgery or or post kind of situational? Or is it kind of half and half? Can I talk about that real quick?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's both. It's both, yeah, and and just improvement of performance for anybody who's uh an athlete or also just wanting to do whatever they like better. Um but most of the people I work with is um injury uh because those are the people who are suffering and willing to allocate resources to get out of that position versus someone who's not feeling bad yet. A lot of times they don't put money into continuing to feel that way.
SPEAKER_01Because when I had that back injury, I went to the chiropractor and did wonders. And then now I go almost quarterly just to kind of maybe preventative, but just more just like it helps me out every time. You know what I mean? So my question is to you like, what's the difference between what you do and physical therapy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great question. So one of the biggest things and differences that between my work and physical therapy is physical therapy is very can be very limited by the um the structure of the healthcare system, right? So insurance is gonna dictate how long someone can come in to see a physical therapist, and then also dictate what areas of the body that physical therapist can can work on. So if you had a back injury, a physical therapist would be able to look at your back because you had to go through XYZ to get even up to that point. Right. In my line of work, a lot of the times the thing, the symptom of pain and discomfort that someone's coming in with is not in that area at all, or there's other things contributing to it. So I am able to look at the body as a whole and not say, well, we're also um our time frame is squeezed down to you know six weeks because that's what insurance says. Right. And so it's more holistic in that sense of entire body. Uh and then the other difference is um the just the the work that's done in there. Um, so it's not like um ice, what the ice um stretch uh strengthen. Like all my work is done on a table. And for every single muscle in your body, I can put you in a position and see how well that muscle works by testing it and improving its ability to work. So um, to answer your question, it doesn't have the um limitations that physical therapy can. And then it also doesn't need like you have to have an injury and then you can go there. Yeah, and then a lot of people transition into strength training from that so you can prevent um having issues down the road as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that makes sense because when my son Elliott broke his femur, he was given an order from the insurance or or doctor to do physical therapy, but only on that femur for I forget X amount of weeks. And then sure enough, once the insurance told us you're done with physical therapy, you we were done, you know. So I I understand that how, and again, yeah, you're right, they they did only focus on um that that injury.
SPEAKER_00And so um and I don't have a ratio for you, but I would say someone that comes in with a problem, yeah, at least minimum 50% of the time, that area is not the problem. That area is like, here's a fun analogy. Um, if you've got a uh a quarterback that uh is getting sacked all the time, he's the one that's injured, right? So he needs the attention. Um, then we go to the line, and my job is to figure out which lineman isn't doing their job, right? Because everybody else has to pick up the slack for the linemen that's not doing their job. And then I train the linemen in the skills that they're missing.
SPEAKER_01Uh, and so the thing that you feel a lot of the time is the other linemen or other position players that are having to do more work than they should or they have capacity for so it'll be fair to say like sometimes you help people to see how they're overcompensating because maybe certain muscles are not strengthened or or maybe, or even how about like proper or not proper form, too, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, both both are are are important. Um, compensating is a beautiful thing. Like if our bodies didn't compensate when something gets hurt, we just fall to the ground. Yeah, um, and so your body's making a good decision at that point, right? It's just not helpful for you in the long term, yeah. Um, and so yeah, we're able to restore access to the things that aren't working so that the body compensates less over time. And then proper form, yeah, and just in exercise or whether you're doing stuff, having that knowledge, it will be helpful um if you have access to the stuff in your body to use it.
SPEAKER_01I want to talk about like more the preventative part. So like I said, I go to the I go to the chiropractor just because I feel like it's just good to get my back checked out every once in a while. If I came to you, what would you like what what is kind of your first few steps to a person that's just like, hey, I'm interested in this, I just want to make sure I just want to take care of my body. Yeah, can you give us a couple of examples of things you would do to kind of just see, you know, not a physical, you probably give me a physical, both pun intended and or whatever, but what what kind of things would you do to to a person like me who's coming in saying, Hey, I just want to, you know, make sure my I'm getting older. Yeah, I I I don't I don't uh recover as fast as I used to. Like, you know, help me. What steps can you teach me to kind of make sure that my body is safe in the long run?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you would be the first person that came in there, uh, preventatively. So um, but uh a part of the process would just be first of all getting a big history of what you've done to your body for better or worse, right? All your injury history, because um, your body's gonna adapt and accumulate to that. So I get insight on that. Uh, and then at the uh level that I'm at, because there's different levels of practitioners that do what I do, um, your nervous system, your brain, your body has a priority of movements that are needed. And and think of it like a like a 42-story house. Yeah if story one goes down, it can take everything else out, right? So your body also has that where there's certain motions that um your nervous system prioritizes. So when someone's coming in, most of the time we end up doing very similar stuff as far as rebuilding this 42-story building. And so you come in and we'll go with like, oh yeah, we're gonna start working together now. This first motion is really important. It's how you you rotate your spine. Your spine needs to rotate. That's like number one. And for every single muscle in your body that rotates your spine, we get you into a position to set up and test to see can the muscle actually do its job. If it can't, we teach it how to do it. And then once we go through those, I give you homework or exercises to do at home to amplify these movements. And then every time you come back in, and this is what I think you would appreciate when you say you go to the chiropractor. When someone comes into me, it's like, okay, I've got my list, and it's like, okay, so far we've gotten through eight movements in these past couple months, and we check each one really quickly. And your body tells me where it needs work, where it needs um more strength. And so you can be like, oh wow, you know, like four months ago, all of these motions had weakness, and today they're all holding up well. Great, we get to move on. Um, but if not, then again, your body is telling me what it needs based off of what I see as opposed to me uh I wouldn't say implementing, but thinking what I think you need, right? Your body's actually gonna tell me what it needs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that it will. That it will. Um, you know, there's I'm I'm I'm just flying blind here a little bit. Good. Might be a horrible analogy, but I'm thinking, you know, doctors have specialities, right? Ortho, pediatrics. In your line of work, is there is there a certain muscle group or certain part of the body you specialize in, or are you kind of just all over the board? All over the board. All over the board.
SPEAKER_00Every single muscle in your body. Most of the time, I end up spending a lot of time in the back, hips, and shoulders, just because people come in typically with a lot of times back, shoulder, knee, sometimes ankle, but usually the the back sciatic, sciatica, sciatica. Like it's the name of a symptom of an area of pain that people come in with. And in sciatica alone, I've seen it go away through just working in the spine, I've seen it go away just working in the hip. I've seen it go away just working in the foot based off of that person's history. So um, yeah, I have I I work in all of it, but I probably spend most of my time in if you cut off your elbows and knees in that area in between.
SPEAKER_01How do they come to you? Is it by referral? I guess the like I said, I'm I'm more specifically asking about the awareness of your of what you do. Um, how how do people find out about you? Is there is there a mainstream for that or is it kind of all over the place?
SPEAKER_00It's probably about 95% referrals. Okay. Yeah, and it has been. So I started my business in Fresno. Yep. And then um about three years ago, two years ago, I shifted completely to here. And it's always been um about 95% referral because most of the people that I spend my time with are people that have struggled with discomfort for a long time and tried a lot of things, and it's not heading in a good direction. And when you can turn that person's life around, they just tell people, right? And so that's how it's been so everybody comes in, it's like you're like, I have no idea what goes on here, but I was told I should come.
SPEAKER_01So word of mouth is your kind of your your biggest, yeah. That's awesome. Um, yeah, because like again, I it was by word of mouth that you know you you told me about that, and so I wasn't really planning on even asking this, but you mentioned insurance. Now, how does that work with your line of work? Because maybe it's you know, you know, it's so funny. I growing up, I remember I got a job with. Health insurance and my mom was so proud of me, and I was like, whatever. I don't, you know, whatever, mom, you know, but it was such a big deal, right? And so now that I'm older with kids, I'm like, like, is it covered or not? You know? So, how does that work in your line of work? Is that is that a big hurdle for people? Or I'm just you you mentioned that regarding um another topic before. So, how does that work with you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um I yeah, purposefully don't let insurance in and in and around my um work because I don't want to dictate what I do, but I never also want finances to be a limiting factor for somebody. So I played with certain things, but um the way it runs right now is uh I typically will show somebody, hey, this is about what it costs, you can spend thinking about this much a month. And if that is outside of your um resources available to you, I I created what's called a legacy program. And basically what that means is we sit down and have a conversation, and I say, How much on a month can you contribute to this? And in exchange, I'm going to capture either through filming or pictures or words that the person tells me your experience here so I can share it with other people. So hopefully they can find something similar.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So you kind of use that as an advertising, it's like a free advertising budget.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01That's actually really smart.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01That's genius.
SPEAKER_00Because yeah, that's my that's one of my biggest, not biggest, but it's something that is hard for me when you start charging a certain amount, you raise the bar for entry for certain people. And I never wanted to do that. So that that's always been available. And I actually also have for anybody that's gone through cancer, or anything that's like a yeah, we'll say Hope Activated was a um a program that I started that if you've gone through cancer, are currently going through cancer, you get three free sessions with me, and then from there we can talk about how it works going forward.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. Kind of a difficult question. Has there been times where someone's come to you and their problems are just kind of bigger than what you do? I guess one, does that ever happen? And two, in those cases, like how tough is that on you? Because I I I feel like when you are in a position to help people, all you want to do is help people. Yeah. Funny how that works. And when you can't help people, it's hard for uh people to not take that personally. You know, I'm I mean, I'm in the I'm in the line of work of helping and serving, and when I feel like I'm no good, yeah, that's not a great feeling. No, so I guess my question is to you is one, has that ever kind of happened where maybe it's just they might need help outside of you, right? Which okay. And two, like the challenges of maybe, you know, you've kind of you've done everything you can think of, but it's still that problem is not not hasn't gone fully away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Um, I over time I have learned to be very upfront about expectations. I ask people of their expectations, and so much so that a friend of mine joked, uh, because my the reality is when someone comes in and say, Great, this is what we are going to do. These are the things that is going to change. This is the improvements that are going to happen. Pain is a just a big question mark. We don't most people move in a positive direction. We don't know how much or how fast. And um, and so the expectation up front of literally, I tell them, don't expect anything. Like that's where he made the joke of like, you're telling me you run a business and you tell them not to expect to get better. And I'm like, not completely. So that allows the stage to be set that I can do my work as best as I can, not expecting a specific result. That person will move better, that person will feel better, but to the extent based off of their history, I always keep that door open of I don't know. Yeah. Um, most of the time, it works out really well. Um, and so that way I'm not holding this burden of I have to fix this person, and um because I don't even know what fix means. Like that and and and and a lot of that letting them know as well, like the responsibility is on you as the individual, right? I see you once a week, maybe maybe every other week. There's a lot of things. If you want to get better, yeah, you have to be a big part of this. You don't have to, but you should. Yeah. Um, and so that's how I've balanced this um the question you asked with not having to um carry this big burden because it's a it's an unrealistic expectation I would set in my own head.
SPEAKER_01I took my son to physical therapy who broke his femur, and one thing I was just impressed with by his the trainers there were the the amount of patience it takes to be a physical therapist, you know. I I was in the room, and literally in this room, there's probably six people and all different ages, all different sizes, and dealing with you know all different things. And you know, my son at the time was six, and it took a lot of patience those first few times because he didn't have the best attitude, but also he was moving his femur for the first time in two months, so he was like, No thanks, you know. But the patience it took for I was I was just impressed by that. Um, how do you I would imagine that the same is kind of with you, um, dealing with maybe people who don't have the best attitude, which again they're in pain, right? They're they're suffering, so I think a little bit, I'm not gonna say they're entitled to that, but don't really blame them. Um, how do you deal with just kind of you know the patience of it and then the commitment of it? Um, because this is a passion for you, but sometimes people might not come into your place as excited as you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and fortunately, um, again, setting the stage, I don't have to deal with that because the the time I spend with somebody in my assessment process is a two-day process. And we're it's almost like an interview as well. And so, is this gonna be a good fit for me? Is this gonna be a good fit for you? And and that's a big difference too with physical therapy and what I do is a lot of people end up in physical therapy that don't want to be there. If someone's coming to me, they want to get better and they're they're willing to do something different, and so that's where the no insurance thing kind of helps you out too, because it's they're walking through the door because they want to.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's great. Yes, that's a great benefit, actually.
SPEAKER_00It is, yes, and I feel bad for being in the position of physical therapist with thirteen people where they're like, Yeah, I'm not your babysitter, but you're here and I've gotta try to help you because yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my son wasn't feeling it the first time, not so much the second time, but gosh, the way he improved after like two, I was like, Look, dude, it's it's working, yeah, you know, and he was like, Yeah, it is. So you just gotta push through it. Um, it would be weird not to talk about God on this podcast, but like, where have you seen it? Kind of sounds like we we kind of talked about it without talking about it, which is very Lutheran, by the way. Um, but it kind of just hearing your story, Michael, it kind of seems like, gosh, like doors were kind of open for you at the right time, maybe not in the best circumstance, like the broken back, but like it kind of felt like doors were opening for you at the right time at the right place, maybe when you didn't want to. Did you did you feel like God was kind of guiding you throughout this whole process, even when maybe your faith was not as strong or or whatever? Yeah, would that be fair to say?
SPEAKER_00Looking back, yes. So, and for context, um I grew up Catholic and then parents divorced and my teenage years, and I pretty much was away from any sort of uh corporate church until uh early 30s. And so the time living in LA was for a guy words very dark and rough time in my life, and so yeah, now looking back, that fracture of my back gave me an opportunity to come home and see the darkness of living there and um being able to then say, I don't I don't want this anymore. And so, yeah, yeah, definitely. I won't say that God broke my back, but he definitely used my stupidity to create an opportunity to for relationship, which led to work, which led to more relationship, which yeah, which I mean you're you're kind of defining God's grace too, right?
SPEAKER_01Like even when we don't know what we're doing, God's still like it's okay, here's a door when you do something foolish in the mountains, yeah. Like it's okay, here's a door. I think that I think that for me, that's why I love God's grace, because it's like even in the midst of our own stupidity and foolishness, God's like, oh boy, yeah, yeah, but it's okay, you know. Um, it's uh that's kind of the vibe I got is the whole dancing thing. Because again, I have friends in LA who were the active thing, it's that's even though it's it's a passion and you're having fun, it's that's a hard way to live. Rough, it's rough.
SPEAKER_00And when you're dancing and you know, the top of the the pedestal is still nothing great that you can survive on most of the time, it's just like yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you have a familiar story to a lot of people here in the church where you know they grew up in a faith, um, whether it's Catholic or whatever, kind of maybe had a moment where you weren't as involved. I am curious, this wasn't really part of our conversation, but how did you find Christ Lutheran Church and yeah, and in your in your path towards a little bit more of a denominational church?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So um when I got married to Kelly, shout out to Kelly. Shout out to Kelly 14 days, 13 days till baby Drew comes. That's right. Yeah, so hang in there. Um not right now. Um, so uh that was about six years ago, and uh that's when we started dating, is when uh I started just having an interest again in God because she basically said, not basically, she did say, Well, I would get married to a man of faith, and so then I had to learn what that meant, and then went on my own journey from that point. Okay, and then we went to um uh evangelical church here for a while and had been to other evangelical churches, and she had more of a history of it, but then I also got to see certain things that uh rubbed me the wrong way. Yep. And so we took a step back for about a year of corporate church and kind of made church our home to where we would invite people to our house every week because we were like, we're still gonna be the church in this.
SPEAKER_01That was the church in the beginning, yeah, you know, around a table, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then um I don't even remember how, but um, one of the one of the big cards of a church when we went back was women have to be able to do the same stuff that the guys do. And so there it wasn't a whole lot of places to choose from here. And Christ Lutheran is really close to us, and I loved the idea of having some sort of orthodoxy as well, some of this older stuff that people have been doing for a long time. Yep, uh, and so that's what led us here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the we we keep it a little bit fresh, but we're still very traditional, so I think that's uh it's a very big uh big draw. Is she from the she's from the area, correct?
SPEAKER_00She yeah, born and raised here, and then well, I was in LA, not at the same time, she was in Denver, yeah, yeah, and then came back because she hurt herself, and that's how we met. She was my client.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really? Yeah, okay. God, she's in pain.
SPEAKER_00God, yes.
SPEAKER_01But you know, it's it is interesting just to kind of see like the silver linings and every aspect of life, and yeah, during those moments, it's absolutely horrible and terrible and whatever. But it is looking back, you're just like, okay, like all right, you know. But um, yeah, it's that's that's interesting because I think your your background with the whole faith thing is very similar to a lot of people here. Is I think we uh what I love about being Lutheran is that we are almost a sanctuary of people who are hurt who who uh don't know or who just don't want to be too serious, yeah, you know, and so um I think we're we're obviously kind of we have our own thing here too, and so here in Visalia. So that's interesting. Um so you just to kind of give a plug into your you you currently have an office in Lifestyles here a couple of blocks away. Is that your only location? Do you like that the only uh place people can kind of reach you at and work with you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I have a home office too, but I right it's all done at Lifestyles, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, how long have you been at Lifestyles?
SPEAKER_00I've been there for about three years. Uh part-time in the sense that I was still like slowly letting go of clients in Fresno and uh now full-time there for maybe a year and a half.
SPEAKER_01On average, how many clients do you work with in a week?
SPEAKER_00Probably 15 to 20.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. Do you have any dreams of of of expanding to your own little office building, or is is lifestyles kind of treating you well? Like what's kind of like the five-year plan if you don't mind.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I would love to have my own um space, uh, smaller space, uh, and being able to have a gym with like a smaller membership, and then I can also work on people. Uh, it's just with the um, I'll say um with the oh gosh, what's the word? Bound, not even boundaries. Yeah, boundaries I created for myself right now with home and life balance. Kelly runs a company. Yeah. So if I'm also running a company doing 40 hours a week, there's something that's gonna get missed at home. So I've changed some things to my schedule to max out my hours of working 20 hours a week so I can do a lot more home stuff. And so maybe when uh kids get older and we come up with some sort of arrangement, if that door opens to where I can do something like that, great. If not, I love what I'm doing right now and I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_01And it's only you, correct? It's only me. So how do you manage that if you want to go on vacation and people are in need of some sort of treatment?
SPEAKER_00And I guess it's yeah, yeah. I mean, I I let them know I'm leaving ahead of time. The the the pace at what when someone's coming in to see me, they're only seeing me every other week on average. So it's not like a big issue.
SPEAKER_01I didn't you know part of me's like, no, stay here, you know? Work on this muscle, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I was like, wait, I just kind of realized there's no one there to really cover for you. Well, it's pros and cons to kind of being your own boss and and being your own schedule, but I imagine though too, it's like you got it's it's a dance in itself, right? Of of balance. Is that is it what what is the hardest part of your job? Is it the more the administrative part? Is it the working on clients? Is it the advertising? I mean, you kind of you're the one man show, so I guess it might be two questions. What's the hardest part and what drains you what drains you the most? And maybe it's the same answer, yeah. But um, I'm just kind of curious, like what what ch what is the yeah, what challenges you the most?
SPEAKER_00I think the hardest part about my job is telling people about my job um and getting that to be more of a a mainstream thing, um, because I am the only one that here that does it. So when you're like, I've never heard of this thing, you're 99% of people that come across this. And there's really no way out of my mouth and words that I can say that are gonna explain what I do, as opposed to experiencing it, like how I said the one time I did. So that is the most difficult thing is the amount of people that I see struggling with discomfort and pain, going through a system that's not always set up to give them the for their best needs for everybody. It's a system that does help people in certain in certain areas. Um, but like I always just am like, man, just come in. But then that whole process just takes so much because they're like, Well, what did you go to school? And then blah blah blah. I'm just like, yeah, yeah. So that's the hardest part is seeing lots of people suffering, pain, discomfort, and being like, I'm raising my hand, I I can I can do it. And but that bridge is a really hard one to build. Um, and then what's draining the most? I don't know, man. This is something that is like the opposite, it is an energizing work. Um, so physically, from a physical standpoint, it's probably draining um because my work is very physical to where like you're on a table and I'm moving you around and I'm pushing and trying to have you hold, and I'm doing that for an hour, and then another client comes in. I'm doing that for an hour and an hour. And so just the physical stand part can can be draining, but it's a very energizing thing to me.
SPEAKER_01The majority of people that you work with, is it mostly people who are covering from something major, or is it is or is it someone who's maybe has poor posture for 35 years, or is just has chronic muscle pain for maybe an injury that happened 25 years ago and they never really treated it, or is it kind of a mixture uh of both?
SPEAKER_00It's really not like a specific thing. It is the amount of suffering and what they are either losing or what is making what's making something really hard in their life and how much they care about that thing. There's an equation there, and that's when someone comes in. This thing is getting in the way of thing that I love that brings me joy, whether that is playing golf, or whether that's waking up and doing work or just going around the house without thinking about pain, you know. So there's a formula there, an equation that those are the things, you know, the the the physical discomfort, the what it's taking them away from, and then how much they care about that thing that it's taking them away from. That's who shows up. Okay, yeah, no one's coming in for wanting better posture.
SPEAKER_01That I mean, I kind of want to come in better posture. I I just you know, I'm at the age now where if I don't do things properly, I I just feel it a lot more. This is a very well, the reason why I did it was really sad. We lost our dog, and so I immediately went into like digging the hole, and it was a means a big German shepherd. And I just wanted to dig that hole as fast as I could. And posture and form were not at the forefront of my mind. Yeah, you know, I just wanted to like, and so oh, oh man, Michael, those the next four days, my back was an absolute like wreck, you know, and and that's kind of where I was like, no, that kind of popped up a few times. I was in my conversation with you, where I was like, I'm at that age now where I can't afford to do something reckless, especially like posture or or I gotta I I gotta, you know, when I help people move when I was 20, I didn't really lift up my legs or anything. But now I'm like I'm so more conscientious about that of like, is this good form? Because I don't want, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_00I'll reframe that too, because it's not that your form not having good form is the problem. You have to be aware of better form because your ability to access certain muscles or their ability to tolerate a load or amount of force has decreased so much in certain positions that the risk increases dramatically if you're not making sure you do everything right. So, like my goal would be like, dude, I would love to get you to a point where you don't have to think about your form and like you can go and do that because me too, your form is really just compensating for a lack of ability to you know do the stuff. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I didn't that uh I dug that hole so fast I just did not care about it. No, I could imagine. I had nowhere with all what I was doing with my body, and that next day I was like, oh boy, yeah, this is something else. Um that's awesome. So I'm gonna give you a little chance here to kind of give yourself a free commercial, a free advertisement, but what would you say to just a listener here? Or any listener, you know, we average about a hundred of them. But um but we do have quite a few people listening. Like, what would you say to the average person here at church that kind of that would kind of give them a reason to maybe consider your service?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, if you are somebody who has struggled with some sort of chronic pain or discomfort, it's been there for a while, and you've tried certain things, whether that's physical therapy, stretching injections, you name it, and the situation hasn't gotten got better, and you still want it to improve, uh, then there may just be certain weak areas or weak links or your inability to do certain things you're unaware of. And when you come in, we're able to take a look under the hood per se and see what's going on, and not only give you insight into the things that your body is lacking that you're not aware of, but then also improve them so that way you can continue to do the things that you like with less effort, more ease, and that like constant, am I in the right form? Right, like that takes energy, it takes energy all day. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that is that if you if you were that person and you're okay with not having expectations, knowing that most of the time it does go pretty well, um, then yeah, I've had a lot of success with that person. Yeah, awesome, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. I'm glad you again, I I think for me too, it's like um anytime we can just improve ourselves physically, emotionally, mental health-wise, it's always a plus. And so having someone like you, where again it's also what you do doesn't it's not wear and tear on our bodies either, right? Yeah, it's the opposite, it's the opposite.
SPEAKER_00And can I can I tie this back together with uh coming back to God? Yes, please, by all means. Like we are our bodies are the temple, right? Yeah, which he resides in. And so you're I'm gonna use the word energy, and energy just means like your physical ability to show up in life. You can be extremely talented and skilled in so many areas, whether that is having great conversations and helping people, but if your energy is low from your ability just to again show up in life, um, that's going to limit your ability to share God through you to other people. And so that's also something I've thought about from the physical standpoint. If we can improve how you function, it allows you to have more opportunities to share your gifts with the world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's very, you know, that's that's still good. Um, some of you know I. kind of do like sports reporting on the side and I was talking to someone who works for the University of Minnesota football team and basketball team and they're they just said their budget for like for physical treatment before and after practices has like quadrupled over the last five years as far as staff equipment dietitian nutritionist I mean literally all I mean and now it's interesting I was on the field last year when they played Oregon during warm-ups and like half of them weren't even like on the field warming up they were like on the ground getting worked on by people and you're just like it's just interesting because they're about to prepare for a football game and they're not even practicing. They're just getting their bodies like yeah right you know and it's it's like shouldn't you be working on catching passes?
SPEAKER_00You know matter how good you are if you can't stay on the field.
SPEAKER_01Exactly and so just over the years I've noticed a huge difference of just like treatment of of of athletes um at the basketball games too they're not even shooting hoops they're on the they're literally laying on the middle of the court and there's some dude just putting them in the figure eight. Yeah and so I'm here to help God's athletes that's right gods athletes which what's what's your have you ever got a tie massage I wish Josh was here.
SPEAKER_00No I have never gotten a tie massage I don't know if it's torture or pleasure but somehow it's both at the exact same time I can I get the gist something hurts so good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah that's kind of how I feel like what you do sometimes where you're like I can't tell if this hurts but it also feels good at the same time little Thai lady putting me in the figure eight I'm like what is going on over here but yeah recommend Thai massage if you want to get beat up but also feel good at the same time is that what you do that's exactly what I do that's a great closure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I will crawl on your back and walk on you I've had people ask to give them massage and I'm like oh really I will not do that I don't I just because I I don't know how you actually need like to be able you have to go to school for that yeah although lifestyles that do have massage rooms they do so you can get everything there. You could you could yeah massage is like never massage is good everything is a good tool everything is a good tool as long as you know what the tool is for no massage can make your tension go away for sure by relaxing muscles. Yeah but why does it come back?
SPEAKER_01We can have that conversation yeah there you go where in lifestyles is your office we have a lot of we have a lot of church members that go to lifestyles by the way the drop zone almost too many too many church I've seen a handful of I'm kidding I'm kidding guys I I love seeing every single one of you no I really did but it's like it's the place to be drop zone the drop zone yep enter in turn right I went in there the other day and the entire San Jose Giants baseball team was in there they're in there and then they all looked at me like I was in the wrong place like seriously I walked in there because I I I could do like the sleds and stuff there you know and so I walk in there and literally and for those of you that don't know uh lifestyles gym has a has an agreement with Vicelia Rahide and minor league baseball so whenever the baseball teams want to work out they do it lifestyles I very rarely see the the rawhide but I I I have seen quite a few times the big bus that pulls up and the the away team and so last week Vicelia played the San Jose Giants and so yeah I go to the drop zone and I it's it's there's probably 30 of them in there and they're all really athletic like big dudes right but yeah I walked in and they giving me the stink guy what are you doing here I don't know like I'll blow that page for this gym membership they're right outside my outfits I think they're the only team that I've seen in there I've seen them in there pretty consistently but really the Giants yeah yeah uh actually shout out I believe his name is Sam he was a Vicelia alumni I saw him there but um yeah no so uh lifestyles yes drop zone drop zone so if you walk in people you kind of go through the gates immediately to the right you don't need to come to my office just ask the person at the front desk maryl yeah ask Marilyn is Michael shout out to Maryland shout out Maryland is great Maryland is awesome yeah um but yeah and shout out to the San Jose Giants hey save some room for some of the civilians in these gyms here yeah okay I'll let them know next time all 30 of them no gosh there are some big guys in there too but anywho all right everybody thank you so much for tuning in today we hope this conversation gave you something new to think about whether it was an idea a story or just a fresh perspective on everyday life don't forget to subscribe so we won't miss future episodes and share this podcast with friends or family who might enjoy it too we definitely love hearing from our listeners so connect with us online and let us know what topics you'd like for us to explore. Until next time keep asking questions stay curious and enjoy the little moments that make life meaningful hope you all have a wonderful day goodbye here from the Grace Period podcast