The Youth Group Generation

This week, Noel Thompson is joined by  friend Ashley Irvine for a conversation that is equal parts nostalgic, honest, and healing.

Together, they look back on growing up in youth groups during the  early 2000s—a time of purity rings, WWJD bracelets, altar calls, youth conferences, and a lot of pressure surrounding faith, salvation, evangelism, heaven, and hell.

But this episode isn't just about nostalgia. It's also about the ways some of those messages impacted us long after high school. Noel and Ashley talk openly about the anxiety, guilt, and spiritual trauma that many people from their generation are still working through, while also recognizing the friendships, faith experiences, and moments that helped shape who they are today.

It's an honest conversation about faith, healing, grace, and what it means to revisit the beliefs that formed us.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome, welcome to the Grace Period Podcast, where we gather for honest conversations about faith, everyday life, and the grace that carries us through it all. Think of this podcast like friends sitting down over a cup of coffee, sharing stories, laughing at ourselves, and leaning into God's grace together. Expect honesty, humor, and a space to ask hard questions. No sermons here, just a good old conversation. Grace period. Make you room for grace in real life. This podcast is brought to you by Christ Lutheran Church here in Visalia, California. CLCvisalia.org. You can find us on Facebook. You could also find us on Instagram. My name is Noel Thompson. I'm the director of student ministries here. And today I have my friend Ashley Irvine. What's up? How are you doing? Doing okay for my first time on a podcast. I was gonna I that's normally the first question I ask is have you ever been on a podcast?

SPEAKER_04 1:05

No, never. I've never been asked.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Never been asked until now. Yep. But you listen to podcasts. Oh, every day of my life. Yeah, because I was gonna say, like, you sometimes you send me like recommendations, like yeah. Yeah, so you're very you're a podcast person. Oh, yeah. How long have you been a podcast person?

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Um, probably since they got really big in the last, I don't know, 10 years. Yeah, but now I've moved more towards like watching the podcast, so I watch them on YouTube because I like to see people's faces, yeah. You know, so I like enjoy watching it.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, there's been a few times where I wish we had video here because I feel like the facial expressions would have made the moment a little bit different or more.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

Well, then it feels like you're having a conversation with people versus just like listening to people talk to each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, that's the goal. I was talking I was talking to you before we recorded, but this this setup right now, we are gonna have video eventually. Yeah, and so I'll make sure you're on it. This will be the first one. The first video podcast would be do you what kind of podcast do you usually like listen to? All political mostly.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

All political, except for if it's like something that I'm interested in, like I don't know. Um I can't even think of a good example. I don't know. I listen to a lot of Trevor Noah, he always has good people on. Yeah, I love his podcast. I listen to a lot of Diary of the CEO. Okay, like that guy. He always has very interesting people both sides of the aisle, different from across the world. Like stuff about like space. Yeah, he has like crazy people on. I love Neil deGrasse Tyson.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I love podcasts, I just have a variety of guests because it keeps it like interesting and fresh. Yep, if that makes sense. And so I love podcasts that just literally week to week is so different that it kind of keeps you on your toes. Oh, yeah. Um, but but yeah, so I I'm mostly sports, probably no surprise. I do get political, although sports now, not so much, but in the fall, my kids football starts. Yeah, college football.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

My kids are not a don't want to drive in your car that day.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

No, but it's fascinating. I was thinking about that the other day. Like, think about our like the kids now in today's world where like we didn't grow up listening to how lucky are they?

SPEAKER_04 3:20

But like I was thinking like I didn't grow up in the car, you know, in a car where my parents are listening to podcasts, but like the kids oh like news radios, freaking rush limbs you have to listen to, with my parents at least. Sorry. Noel told me I should not be un or I should be unfiltered.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yes, I I did. I I did, and so we're already we're not even like starting, but but here we go. I love it. That's funny. All right. Well, you've listened to this podcast a few times, so you kind of you kind of have an idea. You have an idea. I'm actually really excited for uh this conversation about to have with uh Ashley because I we'll get into it later, but something very passionate and we deal with today. But by the way, Ashley, I have a lot of hot takes today. So I hope I hope you're ready.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

I was thinking like we need a hot take bell. You do you should anytime. Yeah, like anytime someone has a hot take, we need to like do a sound effect. All right, we are recording on June 4th. I I'll be honest, this probably won't be uploaded till June 5th. We'll see. Um, I kind of have dinner plans later with my kids, but um June 4th. Okay, here we go. Today is International Corgi Day. I don't I don't have a hot topic here, although I think it's very well known. I'm not a small dog guy, but I make an exception for corgi.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

Yeah, but they're like fat small dogs.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Corgies are the exception, yeah. Corgis are cool, so they just have cute butts, yeah. They're they're they're they're actually like herders too. Like they're actually used for um ag reasons, but shine.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

I thought they would be useless because they have such tiny ass legs because they nip, they nip at the legs. That's how I've never actually met one. You've never met a corgi? Never, never had the pleasure. I love them though. I wanted one for a long time, but they're also really expensive.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, they are. I do have a uh close friends back to Minnesota that's all they've had is corgies. Oh, see, that's what I feel about Goldens. Yeah, and then um today is National Cheese Day. So are you a cheese fan?

SPEAKER_04 5:31

Yeah, I mean I eat cheese. There's one though that's really good, the Dubliner from the Costco has a big giant block of it. It's really yummy. I think it's Irish, I would assume Dublin. No, edit that if that's wrong, because I'm gonna feel like an idiot. Um Dublin, Ireland. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Okay, all right. I thought I put my phone on uh do not disturb, but clearly someone's ruining that. But um, okay. Do you have a favorite cheese? That one probably the Dubliner. Okay, I love cheese. There's not many cheeses I don't like, and then this fits into our too good when I saw this, when I saw this uh this uh day and knowing our topic, I I I just couldn't help but smile. It's national Christian t-shirt day.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

Yikes, like yeah, yeah. That was so what's funny about that is that was like my MO in college. So one of my best friends who I'm still best friends with, she's like, I remember all those t-shirts that you came to school with, all your uh was it not of this world? Not of this world. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

So I had so many.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Did you really? So many. So our camp, our camp had shirts, and so um, my Christian camp that we went to, and we always had a camp over New Year's, and it was always the thing to do the first day. Uh, when you when you came back from winter break, that first day you came back from winter break, it was always like this unwritten rule you always wore the camp shirt. Yeah, and so my school was flooded with like was it a Christian school?

SPEAKER_04 7:13

No, it's just a bunch of kids that go to the same camp that happens to be a Christian camp. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

So my youth group was very popular in my actual school, and so that first day back of winter break, there'd be like 120 kids wearing the same shirt, and looking back, and this kind of talks this goes into our conversation a little bit. We talk about like being exclusive, you know what I mean? Because it was very much you're the cool kids. Guess where guess what I did over winter break? Yeah, I went to camp. Um I'm part of this youth group. Looking back, I was like, uh we thought we were so cool, but I don't know. It we weren't cool, so jury's out on that one, yeah. But even like um I don't know if you know this, or I know some of our listeners do, but you know, our youth group here, I've kind of like gone away from the t-shirt thing. So we have our logo, we have our deeper logo. I put that logo, Ashley, on just about everything you can think of.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

I have a hat.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

We still wear it, I still wear it. We have like coffee cups, I've done towels, I've done socks. Um, yeah, we've done beanies. Bags, we've done beanies, blankets. We've done blankets, we have. So I don't know. It's just more like everyone needs a towel. So here's a here's a deeper towel. But all right, so that's June 4th. Oh, okay. Here we go. June 5th is hot air balloon day. Pass. Yeah, I did it once. Never, hands down, one of the most scariest things I've ever done in my life. Will never, and I also feel like correct me if I'm wrong here, I feel like there's a hot air balloon accident about once a month.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

Is there a Reddit thread that you follow that's hot air balloon accidents?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

I just don't, I just feel like I again maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like lately on social media I'm reading about these hot air balloon accidents all over the world. But you survived. I survived. I you know, there's there's always a oh, for like seriously, I would not go on one for a million dollars. Yeah, I am so dead serious about that. This is where I wish we had video. Look at my face. So serious.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

So, how old are you when you did it?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

I was literally I was young and dumb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 20.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

Okay, yeah, you know, 20.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

You're on the edge, but even then, I was like, this is a mistake. Yeah, when you leave your fate to like wind, that's not a good comment.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

It's like you're in the hot air balloon and you have no, you have no pack on. You're if you have no control. Yeah, you just fall to your death. Zero control. If the wind wants to take you somewhere, that too, it will. Well, my best friend, she paraglides off like you like jump off of a hill. Yep, yep, yep. And she's getting trained, or she what she lived in San Francisco, so she was getting trained to do that. Okay. Oh, I should take you guys with me once I get. I'm like, I don't know. And well, when she told us how much it was, I was like, Yeah, probably not.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

No, yep, nope. You're gonna have to pay me. Um, so that's my hot my first hot take is the hot air balloon.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

National Donut Day.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Everybody loves a good donut. Uh, what's your favorite donut?

SPEAKER_04 10:12

I love components donuts. Really?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

They're so thick, I've never had them, they're very good. Their breakfast burritos delicious.

SPEAKER_04 10:19

Oh, yeah, phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

But like, what's what's your favorite actual donut though?

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Do you have a particular raspberry? It's like a dark maroon sauce that's over the top that's like raspberry and blueberry. That sounds very glaze, and it's sophisticated. Yeah, it's unreal.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Okay, but let's say you go to a it's a donut shop. Do you have like oh yeah? Do you like glaze? Do you like old-fashioned sprinkle?

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Not an old-fashioned person. I'd probably go for the chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Okay. Have you had a cronut? Yeah, no, Scotty's donuts have the cronuts, delicious. Because it's what is it? It's like a glazed croissant.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

That's right. See, I'm not a croissant fan. Cat loves croissants. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

I'll be honest, there's not a donut I haven't met that I haven't loved.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

I feel like that's pretty that's pretty real for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Like, I think donuts are a top five, like just best food ever.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

They are.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Uh, this next one, I am not a fan. Actually, these next two, but National Gingerbread Day. That seems wrong. That should be in December. So I don't know. Shout out to the people who like gingerbread. And then National Veggie Burger Day tomorrow, June 5th. I like a good black bean burger. Do you? Yeah, they're not bad. I do remember I think it was at the habit. I had their oh, yeah, I've had those. And I'll be honest, I was I was quite taken. It wasn't bad. Yeah, they're not bad. Yeah, there's actually, I feel like um the impossible or veggie or whatever. I'm gonna offend someone because I know I already I'm already not PC corrector, but I feel like they've stepped up their game in the last like five years. Oh, yeah. I I I think like stuff now is actually tasting pretty decent. You'll be surprised. So someone will have a veggie burger tomorrow, it won't be me. Um, June 6th, it's D-Day for those who um kind of honor that. My grandpa served and he was in D-Day, so that's why I put that there. Uh, June 6th is National Black Bear Day. So shout out to the black bears. Goes well with the next one. Yep, and National Trails Day. There you go. Gosh, can you imagine if you're on a trail on June 6th and if you come across a black bear, it's your day. Yeah, well, it might not play the lottery that day. Might not be your day, depending on how things go, but it's your day. That's also true. I I didn't know that black bears could be brown until I moved to California. Oh, they were not always black. No, all the bears you see up there are black are brown, they're black bears, but they're brown, but they're brown. Oh, I know. Trust me, left brain, right brain doesn't make sense, but I've been I've been told that.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, so black bears are not always black, so there you go, people. Um, I don't know. How old are you? What's our age difference between 37? You're 37. Okay, I'm 40, so we're not that far, not that far, but the reason why I asked is because this next one it took over when I was in sixth grade. It's national yo-yo day.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Oh, my also my sixth grade year, sixth grade.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

The yo-yos were very, very my sixth grade teacher, Mr.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Karen's, shout out to Mr. Kairens, was like the yo-yo master at Royal Oaks Elementary, and he would walk around in the classroom doing tricks and yo-yoing. Interesting, and he had like a yo-yo club, and so if you were in his class, you yo-yo'd. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

I do remember I had some friends, I grew up low-income, right? I do remember some friends that spent some oh my gosh. I I don't remember, but I just remember the amount being insane. I think it was like the butterfly yo-yo. I don't know, but I remember them spending a number on a yo-yo at that should be illegal.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Yeah, it's like beanie babies, it's like the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

But I tell you what, though, if you YouTube like professional yo-yo, oh it's crazy, it's insane.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Yeah, I could watch that for a long time. It's very cool. Yeah, I think I think my nephew must have brought one home recently because we like tried to play with it or whatever, and I was trying to do stuff that I could remember from when I was in sixth grade, and I obviously sucked at it, but brought back some good memes.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

I will also say uh if you want to get frustrated really quick, a tangled yo-yo streak and a yo-yo will get you going. Yeah, that'll get my heart rate uh pretty good. So, and then we gotta bring some of these back, but it's also on June 6th, National Drive-in movie day. Oh, I missed the drive-in. There's like a couple back in Minnesota we would do, and uh it was fun because you would watch like two movies, they always have like two or three movies, and yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

I thought they were supposed to build the new one. No, that's just Merles.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

I feel like I've heard both of those things so much in the last 10 years, and clearly none of them has happened. Yeah, none of them, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

I feel like that's a good thing. We should invest in that, maybe. All right bring it back, man. Everyone's going back and like doing weird nostalgic thing. I feel yeah, you know, we can make some interesting though.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

It's like Minnesota, like the weather here sometimes it's so hot during the summer.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Yeah, but when the sun goes down and you're 16 and you want to go to the drive-in with all your friends where you don't really watch the movie, you just hang out and you just eat popcorn. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

No, you know, I think I've been to the drive-in maybe three times in my life.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

Oh, we used to go all the time when I was a kid. Really? All the time.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Is it here in Visalia?

SPEAKER_04 15:33

On Mooney, over where Tico is.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Oh, when did that go away? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Uh, I was still there in high school because I remember going in high school, so I think it closed shortly after that. That was 2007.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

But I know for sure a few of our listeners will come to me on Sunday and let me know. Because we have some and shout out to the listeners, you guys are great. Thanks for listening. I love you guys come to me on Sunday and either correct me.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

You should do a segment on corrections like Seth Myers.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

That's what they Josh and I are like, we're not professionals. Like, if there's anything we're professional in, is not being professional. So um, but yeah, I get corrected all the time. So, also, it is the beginning of June here, and so I kind of did a June at a glance. Um, I'm always kind of curious. So, the birthstone of June is Pearl Moonstone, and how would you pronounce that last one? Alexandrite, Alexandrite, Alexandrite, couldn't tell you what color that is or whatever, but sorry.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

I feel like it's a green.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? Someone does. Uh, the birth flowers are rose and honeysuckle. The birth, I guess June has a birth tree. It is oak. Classic. Yep, popular around here. And then June has a bird, which is a dove. I gotta say, so far, June's pretty boring. And then the colors are white and pale orange.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Nice. I love me any sort of hue of orange. Really? Orange is my life color. No, it's not. Yes, it is. Did you not see my car? It's bright orange. Actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Yeah. First, my first orange car. Why do you like orange? I just it's my whole life I've loved it. I don't know why. Really? My whole life since I might be it, might be my least favorite color.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Really? Yeah. It's such a happy color. When you see orange, you're just like, you know, happy.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Well, you know what? If it makes you happy, but I don't know. I'm trying to, I don't think I I, you know, I don't own any orange clothing. Um, your phone's orange, by the way. Yeah, that wasn't by choice. My phone is orange. This is where this is where we need the video. You know what this is? This is I'll take whatever you you have in stock phone. I don't want to wait two weeks for a delivery.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

See, I would only buy that specifically because it's orange.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

What kind of what kind of orange do you think the new by the way, people? We're looking at the new iPhone 17. I'm not trying to, but this is the orange work. What kind of what would you call this? What kind of orange is that? Metallic orange? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

What kind of shiny? What what what orange is your car? Habanero.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Is that for real?

SPEAKER_04 18:22

It's literally called habanero orange. No, it's habanero orange. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

I like that one.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Yeah. Pale orange, like the red orange, like a dark. That's my favorite kind of orange. Like maroon?

SPEAKER_03 18:36

No. Type of close. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Well, uh, and then and then June is a lot of things. Yeah, it is. I would and I'll be honest, Ashley. I there is probably 10 more. I didn't even include I didn't even include all these, but all right, here we go. June is National Safety Month. So be safe. Be safe. Men's Health Month. Be healthy. Be healthy. Pride month. Happy Pride. Happy Pride. Thank you. Yeah. To you. Love Pride Month. I uh I don't do AI, but um, so my my brother is gay, and so I I put his face and we're Native American, so I I said make him into a Pride Ojibwe warrior. I gotta show you the picture, it is so great. But uh shout out to yeah, happy pride.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

Um great outdoors month, whatever that means, just be outside, I guess. It's candy month. It says candy month every month.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

I know that's that's that's the thing too, where it's like, yep. And then pollinators month that could go to so many different levels. So shout out to the bees. Uh I'm not gonna tell my wife this, and she lists, she's usually like three weeks behind, so I think when she listens to this, it'll be July. It's adopt a cat month. Don't get any cats.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

There's a bunch of cats outside the youth house, though. If you want one, that's where I got mine.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

I can't talk about that. That's uh that's that's for the after show. Um, it is iced tea month. Now, I will say, I it it took me about let's see here, I'm 40. Yeah, it took me about 35 years to come around to tea. Are you like a Ted Lasso kind of hating tea? No, I love hot tea. That's the thing. I've always loved green tea and hot tea. Iced tea.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Well, if you put it in the sun and let the sugar melt inside of it, a sweet sun tea is that's what my wife does, is a sun tea.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, and I love iced tea, but I'm one of those people where I need to have five pounds of sugar in it. Oh, of course. Like my grandmother. Yeah, so it's like, am I am I really an iced tea person? It's like coffee. I like my coffee as white as me. Yeah, see, that's not really coffee. Like, I will admit that. So I don't know if I'm a true iced tea person. Um, country, it's a typo. Country cooking month. Country cooking. What's your favorite kind of soul food or country food?

SPEAKER_04 21:04

Oh, I love a good chicken fried steak for breakfast, dude. Every breakfast place I go to. Yeah, I'm with you there. So saucy and just all the just one bite.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Okay, so here's what this might stress you out. Here's what I do when I get my country fried steak. I like getting over easy eggs and hash browns.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

And what I do is I just mash it all. Yes, mash it.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

I agreed. I mash it one billion percent together. I love all of that because there are people out there that like have to separate their food, right? Thanksgiving's my favorite favorite meal for a reason. Yeah, put it in a bowl, baby.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Okay, well, okay, but um, but yeah, country fried. It's the first thing I look for on a menu is is country fried steak. Yeah, so the gravy, you gotta the gravy and everything. Do you have a uh and it doesn't have to be around here, but is there a favorite country fried steak place that we well, we just went to Avila a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Ago and we went to Fat Cats really in Avala. We were there for a we were in San Luis Bishop for a comedy show, and so we went to breakfast in Avala. Pretty good. It was very good. Recommend it. Oh, yeah. Well, I think they're famous. I think uh what's his face? The guy with the the crazy guy with the hair guy Ferrari? Yeah, that guy. I think he showed up, I think, at some point.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

The fact that I did that, I'm a little embarrassed.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

But yeah, he's got hair like you, man. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Sure. Um, is there a country fried steak here in town? Um, we don't go to breakfast here. Yeah, corner cafe is pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Is it?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

Didn't that place close?

SPEAKER_01 22:36

No.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

No, that was corner something bakery.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah, corner, but yeah, corner cafe off of acres of oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Goshen. Yeah. Yeah, it's really good. That's not bad. It's not my favorite. I mean, okay, here's my You better hope they're not listeners. Yeah, well, you know what? I'll take any listener at this point. Um, well, here's a question for you because I have kind of encountered this problem. Not problem, but but issue here. Country fried steak. Would you rather have the quantity or the quality? Quality. So you rather have a very, very small country fried steak.

SPEAKER_04 23:14

Yeah, even if it was, you know, like a burger size, because they're ult ultimately it's like a burger that's deep fried or whatever. I you know, if it's really good, I can get by.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah, I think because of my portion preference, yeah, I'd rather like when I I'll go on Yelp, and the first thing I want to see is how big is that country bread steak. You're all give me the give me the circumference. Because if I'm already eating unhealthy, I need to get full.

SPEAKER_04 23:44

You know what I mean? Make it worth my calories.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah, what's your side? Are you a biscuit?

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Are you uh uh I usually tell them don't bring me any bread. Toast or okay. No, I'm like, don't waste it on me, man. I'm not gonna eat it.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

No English muffin or anything, yeah. Um, camping month is June, so go camping. Um, I don't mind camping. I'm a I don't mind tent camping, but any more than three days, yeah. Two days I'm two days max. Two days or three days. I'm I'm kind of I'm a good tent camper for two or three days. Yeah, and then it is migraine and headache awareness month. And I gotta always I always bring this up. I gotta formally apologize to my friend Zach Mernon. In high school, he would get migraines and he would back out of things. I remember we were going to this being a baby, kinda, yeah. Like I remember being like, Come on, dude. Like it would it wouldn't happen a lot, and I you know, I I forget where we were going, but we were we were gonna do something, and we like were planning on doing this for a while, like it was calendared, right? And I remember he backed out and he had a migraine. I remember just being so pissed mad at him. I was so mad, and then I didn't get my first migraine probably 10 years ago. I got my first one. The very first person I called. I go so sorry, dude. Was Zach. I hurt so bad. I was like, dude, I am so sorry.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

It's debilitating. Yeah, my wife gets them all the time. Really?

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah. What what does she do? Because people people uh deal with migraines differently strange ways.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Well, she bought this little like really tight thing that you can put over your head, so it like squeeze like a compression thing, has like a thing for your eyes so you can see. Okay, but like squeezes your head, but then it comes with the eye mass that you can cover and it's like cooling. So it like sometimes it helps either that or she just kicks back a bunch of migraine pills, which is basically just all caffeine. Yeah, that's that's what you just gotta fight the pain and then have the rubber head and then takes me, it hurts my hands, you know, it's annoying after a while.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Poor you, yeah. Um yeah, I I think that's the common thing is like caffeine. They say like get caffeine, and I'll be honest. I but what if you don't drink caffeine and you get migraines all the time, then you're just getting yourself addicted to caffeine. And too, like you you drink so much caffeine, like you almost get jittery, yeah. You know, uh for me, I gotta I do have like a sleep mask, so the darkness helps. Yeah, and I just rack out, I just lay down and sleep it off. But which is what Zach did, so which is ironic. It all comes out to Zach. Sorry, Doc. It all comes full circle, which is either great or uh or annoying. I don't know. All right, here we go. I think that is it. So shout out to uh um that's a lot of maybe I didn't have a lot of hot takes. Let me see here. I mean, let me look back. The Christian t-shirt day I had a hot take, hot air balloon. I had a hot take, gingerbread day, somewhat of a hot take. Vidiburger, I used to have a hot take on that. I'm coming around. Uh the yo-yo day, not really hot take, but I do remember it literally took over my sixth grade year. And yeah. So I wrote an intro for our listeners here. I did write an intro to kind of get an idea of our conversation here. And uh, so I'm gonna read that here real quick. But I'm actually really excited because I feel like Ashley and I had kind of experienced a lot of similar things back in our day. I hate saying that phrase back in our day, but we are old now, it is true. Um, and so but I think like it's weird to think you and I had different upbringings, but the same like youth group experience, and so I'm very curious to kind of like kind of dissect that if that makes sense. So, yeah, let me just read this here real quick, and that'll give people uh an idea of uh what we're gonna talk about. So, if you grew up in a youth group in the late 1990s or early 2000s, you know it was a unique time. We had purity rings, WWJD bracelets, Christian t-shirts, lock-ins, mission trips, and more copies of I Kiss Daddy Goodbye than anybody probably needed. We were told to save uh physical intimacy for marriage, share Jesus with everyone we knew, and make sure our friends didn't up, didn't end up in hell. It was a time of passionate faith, big emotions, altar calls, and plenty of pressure. Oh, yeah. Now, more than 20 years later, we're both I knew you were on, but we're both about 40-year-olds looking back on those experiences with a little more perspective. Some of those lessons shaped us in positive ways, some left us with questions, and some are things we're still very much unpacking today in therapy, and we're paying for it, literally, figuratively. So, in this episode, we're taking a trip back to the youth group culture that formed so many of us the good, the bad, the awkward, and everything in between. So, we are going to talk about like purity culture, the pressure to evangelize, fear of getting salvation wrong, heaven and hell, and what happens when you revisit those messages as an adult. And I mean, and I think that's like I don't know, like I think I I I realize Ashley, between me and my friends that I grew up with, I feel like I'm in my nostalgia area. Like sorry, era era, and there's there's pros and cons to that because I feel like you can't live in the past, but you also now that we've been on this earth long enough, I think we we now are at least mature enough to look back and be like, huh, like that was good, or huh, that was not good, or yeah, or rough, or that was healthy, that was unhealthy, or if you're me, it's by the grace of God, I'm still like alive because I would, you know, I would use my bicycle and bike around my hometown. So I feel like we're in our nostalgia era, and I think there's good and bad because I think the bad is you can get caught up on that, and then you chain yourself to the past, and it's hard to really focus on the present and focus on the future. And I think a lot of times you could just be caught up in the what-ifs or whatever, but it's also good because it's also like, yeah, like I've I was hurt, or I, you know, I did do this or do that. So I don't know about you, but I've kind of caught myself being in that nostalgia era. Is that true for you at all?

SPEAKER_04 30:18

I mean, when I think about I think it makes me go back there more when I see my like nieces and nephews that are growing up now. So I have I have nieces that are adults, yeah, mini adults that are, you know, 18, 21, and then I have a niece right now that's going through junior high. Yeah, and it brings me back to when I was in junior high and I'm just like scared for her, you know, because she looks she looks like me. She looks so much like my like my brother, yeah, but also like me, blonde and you know, naive and just doesn't know the world. And I'm like, oh, I need to, I will fight anyone that's mean to you. You know what I mean? And so it's like, and she goes to youth group, not here, unfortunately, but other places sometimes, and it scares me, yeah. For like, what is she gonna hear? Like, what are and my nephews that are growing up too that are really young, it's like what's what's the experience that you're gonna have? I hope it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, you know, for sure. So um I didn't join youth group until I was kind of a late edition, if you will. I really didn't get involved into my Lutheran youth group eighth, ninth grade. And for the listeners out there, I look at I didn't know it was a mega youth group, but now that it was, I mean, my our high school youth group was probably 150 people. Oh dang, 150, 200, which is pretty, pretty, pretty big, especially for a small town. And so I didn't get I didn't join that youth group um later in the in the game. So what about you? Did you go to church growing up? What kind of church? Talk about like just real quick the foundation to kind of lead us into our conversation.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

Are we naming churches?

SPEAKER_01 31:56

If you uh it's well, because you yeah, you grew up here.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Yeah, I grew up in Visalia. I mean, sure. Uh yeah, so my family went to Grace Community for a long time. Yep. And so I was really close with one of my cousins who were the same age, and so we went to youth group at at Grace Community. Okay, I think. Well, I remember going to like Sunday school and stuff, and then we started going youth group. I feel like it was pretty big, like it was a decent size of kids, and I was but I was like very quiet. And my cousin she knew more of these kids because she went to school with them. So because Grace Community is on, you know, what is that, the east side of town. Yep. And I went to I went to Green Acres, all these kids were Valiot kids. Like I wasn't really friends during the week. And so I it was harder for me to make friends. I'm very I was very shy, yeah, like very timid, very afraid. Yeah, you know, so like it was, I mean, I did all right, but like I don't think I made a ton of like really good friends.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

So you you're more of like I'm not gonna say grew up in the church, but you started young.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Yeah, kind of oh yeah, no, my whole life was yeah going to church. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

So when you when you hear the phrase youth group in the 2000s, I'm curious. What's the first thing that comes to your mind?

SPEAKER_04 33:07

Well, only because of recently. So I don't know if you watched that, I don't know if I even sent it to you, that new documentary that came out on Acquire the Fire.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

No, oh but I remember Acquire.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

So Acquire of or by Acquire the Fire. Acquire the Fire.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

I do remember that movie. Oh, dude. That movie it was a very good documentary. Was it a way to bring back it brought up some traumas? Oh dude, but it was really it was good, yeah. But like stuff like that. So, like in the concerts, like we used the Viselia used to have them all the time. Like Viselia had all the different like Christian rally because I feel like the nine oh, I guess it wasn't really 90s, it was early 2000s. We had them all the time. Okay, you know, what other I was about to say, Benjamin Franklin. What's that guy's name? Uh Franklin Graham.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, Franklin Graham.

SPEAKER_04 33:57

Franklin Graham. Yeah, I feel like it was like his son or something would come through. Billy Graham's son. Yeah, Billy Graham's son. Like, so it's yeah, it was Franklin then. That's his son, I think. Um, and like those kind of guys would come through, and so then Switchfoot would be, and Switchfoot was my favorite, still one of my favorite bands. I do love Switfoot. I love Switchfoot. They're good people, I feel like they're not a bunch of Yahoos. No, they for sure are. Yeah, I vetted them. Yeah, it's like sometimes I have to check. Yeah, but no, so like guys like that, and then that would come here. So I remember all the concerts, the t-shirts, yeah, you know, and then for high school, when I when I went to Redwood, my friends were going to the NAS. And so then I was in the youth group at the NAS. Okay, and they had a pretty decent sized youth group too, I think.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

So high school was mostly NAS. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about I we're gonna jump around topics here, but I I let's talk about salvation. I want to talk about that because I remember when I joined the youth group as a ninth grader, it was like I was celebrated, if if you will, because I I I eventually attended that youth group as a friend, I was someone's friend, yeah, right. And so someone invited me. Did they get a prize? I mean, not physically, but but to your point, a little like like recognition of like because it was always like bring your friends, bring your friends. People, people need Jesus in their life, and right, you know, if you if you don't, whatever, you know where you're going. And so yeah, I do remember just like in the beginning part of joining that youth group, it's it was almost like this weird welcome of like, all right, you you're now on the good side, yeah. You know what I mean? And then it didn't take me too long to be like, okay, now my job is to bring somebody else, to bring other people in because like, do you want them to join you in in heaven or not? And so now I'll be completely honest, and I I can a lot of people can like I I entered in as a rebel and I kind of left as a rebel because I feel like I was old enough to kind of like see through it, yeah, if that makes sense to be like this is dumb, but you still bought into it though. I bought into it, but I'll tell you right now, like, I did not make any friends. I very much was like the problem child of my you were the guy I was getting in trouble in the back of the channel. But they still let you stay, they did, which is really weird. Yeah, so like my church at that time was like leaving the ELCA, and I literally be a couple of my friends went pickety outside of my own church.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

Oh my god. So you were that deep in the theology that you're like, no, this bothers me as a ninth grader or tenth grader, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

So I think my point of it all is I think it's because I came in late. I was kind of able to see through the BS. Does that make sense? But I also was like I was I was a thorn in every youth group leader's side, like all the leaders were like you asked the questions. Well, yeah, but where's the envelope? Exactly. But at the same time, I can't tell you how many sit-downs I got. Wow. Accountability sessions where it's like, Noel, you gotta it will get to this, you gotta man up, you know? Yeah, you're not supposed to be doing this, this, this, this, this, this. And I kind of like laughed it off. Now, I'll be completely honest, I was completely I was so disrespectful. Yeah, like looking back, I did not handle it right. But but the one thing I always kind of like scoffed at was the salvation thing. Yeah, like I don't know, like I just kind of I I didn't think it was that big of a deal. So I guess my question to you is where were you at on the salvation pressure in your youth group? Did it and like needing to bring friends and to save people, and or did you ever worry about your own salvation?

SPEAKER_04 37:43

Oh, every Sunday, really, yeah. So at some point I have and what's funny when I was looking at the questions when you sent them the other day, I was remembering because my my mom and I were going to Vyselia First for a little bit. I don't remember when that was. That might have been somewhere, I don't know. I don't remember, but I remember every Sunday Pastor Rich Guerra, you know, would say, Raise your hand, and I'd raise my hand every Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Really?

SPEAKER_04 38:11

Yeah, just because I was scared. Mind you, I was closeted. Yeah, I am gay currently, out and proud. But when I was a kid, yeah, it was not a safe space. Okay, and so that was something, and that for as long as I can remember. So since I was, you know, in kindergarten, I knew this was not I wasn't I was wrong. Kindergarten. Yeah, okay. For as long as I can remember. Yeah, yeah. So every Sunday it was like, oh my gosh, I need to be saved. Yeah, because whatever things I'm feeling or thinking is going to ruin that salvation.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Yeah. So for you is mostly like your own salvation, not necessarily like other people.

SPEAKER_04 38:49

Well, I think there was a piece like when I was, I don't know if it was, I don't have a ton of memory besides summer camp at at Grace Community. And even at the NAS, we didn't really do much. I didn't really go places versus just going on like Wednesday nights. But I remember like I was still a very Christian person, yeah, you know, like because I wanted to be saved so badly, yeah, and being closeted and scared of my own salvation. It was like it was almost had to take over all of that. And so I was very like proud to be Christian and to be, no, I don't I don't have sex with boys in high school or whatever. Yeah, like if I had friends that were doing stuff like that, I don't do that. Yeah, you know, and so it was like a thing that I could hang over people's heads, right? But I still would have tried to invite people to church because I had friends that I, you know, like come to church with us and they would come, but it wasn't like it wasn't like preaching it on the on the picnic benches at Redwood and Green Acres.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

You know, it's interesting. I my attitude about salvation was like I think I was because I was a rebel, and I mean dead serious, I think I was convinced I was going to hell anyway. Oh, see that that might be a more freeing way to feel.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

I don't know though, because but how interesting that you still went to church. Well, and you wanted to be a part of the community.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

So that's kind of my experience, though, is because I realized that the church could be a fun place, and that's why I honestly I'm a youth pastor because I think like when people realize that you can have the best time of your life and not commit misdemeanors or felonies or get drunk or or whatever. Do drugs. Well, yeah, honestly, though, right? Yeah, when I feel like you can have authentic friendships and people who actually care about you, and like and you can just have the most fun in your life without doing actually like dumb and or and or illegal things either to your body or to others, yeah. That's what kept me going. Yeah, it was like the relationships, yeah. And so I very much fought through, and trust me, I feel like every week I was like, I was on people like who's gonna try to convince Noel to do this, who's gonna try to convince Noel this, this, this, this. Because I just was like, I was constantly rebellious, yeah. But it was the people, like my my small group, the guys in my grade that like they like accepted me this wild firecracker, you you know what I mean though? And I also just felt like there's always a part of me that was like, I don't think that we as people are in the business of salvation.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

That's not we're in that's a very profound thought to have as like a teenager.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Well, I just I honestly did not care.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

Yeah, I I feel I wish I I wish I felt more like that when I was a kid. I mean, I feel very much like that now as an adult, but that's like a very cool sort of experience, I think.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

But also like their guilt trips reinforced it, if that makes any sense. Like their guilt trip of the whole purity thing, because they found out I had two girlfriends in ninth grade, and they were like, Nope, can't do that. Like, you know, and um, you know, and like even the fact that I was like, I kissed a girl and I didn't date her, they're like, That's a sin.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

And I remember you have to get married now.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, I mean, I try to just be like, just like I I just felt like there's like everything I did was so wrong. I just had this attitude of like I'm just gonna shut you off. Yeah, but but I had a lot of friends that were scared to death, yeah, scared to death about salvation and scared to death of like dating. Yeah, and so like that pressure was insane.

SPEAKER_04 42:28

Yeah, I feel like I had like a decent amount of friends that were like that didn't date at all until like we were much older in like junior or senior year, because of like being very religious or just feeling like, no, I don't wanna, you know, because then I'm gonna have if I start dating somebody, I'm gonna have sex with them and they're gonna we're starting kissing, and it's gonna be all over after that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

That brings us to our next topic. We mentioned in the intro, so there is a very popular book back then. Uh author was Joshua Harris, and he wrote a book um called I Kiss Davy Goodbye. And for those of you who uh first I don't recommend reading it. First of all, don't buy it. One, because now, believe it or not, he has come out and said, I regret writing that. Like 30 years later.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Yeah, he's like I think he's in the acquire the fire documentary, actually.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Maybe so for the people out there, um essentially uh this book encouraged everyone to have their first kiss be on the altar. Yeah, like do not kiss your significant other until the altar. That every aspect of a physical every physical aspect of a relationship should be it should be in your marriage, in marriage, in the covenant of of marriage. And so between a man and a woman, of course. Between a man and a woman. And this book, I don't know about here. I'm very curious. In Minnesota, it took off.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

Oh, yeah, no, it was huge here. I remember my mom. I have a very distinct memory of sitting on my mom's bed and crying about something. I don't know if it was about Because I was closeted and I loved somebody and it was sad and I was, you know, upset. Or if it was about some guy that I was also trying to date, but she like gave me the book and she's like, Maybe you should read this. And I did not read it.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah. And so my youth group, like it took over. It took over. And of course, Noel over here with a little bit of a player.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

You're I'm not gonna read that.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Get that out of my face. I was so against it. I was so against it, but it it took our youth group over for like two or three years. And and I will say this, and to each their own, I know two married couples to this day. Happily. Yeah, I don't I know two couples. I mean, yes, they are happy. I'm joking. I they're in Minnesota, uh yeah, they're still married, but I know two couples that have been married now married a couple years before me. So now they've been married 17-18 years. Yeah, their first kiss was on the altar. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

And I mean, more power to you. If you want to do that, that's no shame.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

And that's and that, yeah, I agree with that 100%. But it's the it's the forcing that. Yeah, the guilt, the guilt, the shame. The guilt and shame. Yeah, and really that's our youth group experience, isn't it? All guilt and shame and shame. Everything you look back on that you've got the youth ministry in in the early 2000s, I it was all driven by guilt and shame, which is which is insane. I mean, that's it's it's it's so sad because you look back and you're just like man, that's heartbreaking. Yeah, how guilt and shame can be uh motivated and or motive as a tool, yeah. Um was there a particular so kiss dating goodbye? Was there any other books or movements that kind of was like the talk around town or because I also like our church did the Rick Warren 40 Days of Purpose? Yeah, I've heard about that. I never read that either. That's not bad, but I do remember I I printed out some books here too. Some and so um Boy Meets Girl, that was like the follow-up of I Kiss Day and Goodbye by Joshua Harris. But I do remember these books, every young man's battle. Oh, yeah, and every uh young woman's battle. They sound familiar to me, but I don't think I read them. I guarantee you, if you saw the cover, you would you would uh you would know it. Yeah. Uh The Case for Christ, Least Trouble. That was very popular. John and then John Piper's Don't Waste Your Life.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

I think I read that. Okay. I think somebody gave that to me in college. Okay. I think I read that.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

There's one I want to talk about. There's actually a few. Donald Miller is Blue Like Jazz.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

Oh my god. I saw that on here and I was like, loved that book. That's a good book. Yes. So I can't really remember it besides the thing that he put on the on the yard.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

That's like the only memory I have for it.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

That's a very good book. Which again, we're not going to trash our youth group experience because I think there was some good stuff here.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

Also, the what's the shack? The shack?

unknown 46:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

Is it just called the Shack?

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Maybe.

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Yeah, they made a movie of it. Don't you remember that? No. The guy and like he it's it's all the Jesus or it's Jesus and it's what's her face from Viola? Viola Davis. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Oh, I know the movie now.

SPEAKER_04 47:12

Yeah. I never read it though. Yeah. Oh, that book was it good? Insanity. That was high school. So like that blew up in high school. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Maybe I was out of high school then. Oh, it was so good.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

I mean, I still think it's a good, like the storyline of it is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

One book that really kind of captivated our youth group, and I I don't think it's good at all, is John Eldridge's Wild at Heart. That's that was a book more for like men need to reclaim what men are supposed to do. And like we all need to be hiking Mount Everest right now, shirtless. Yeah. And you know what I mean? Like as a man, you do this, do this, then men are supposed to do that. And I just remember during that time, I was like in the musical, and I was I made like this very special choir group, and I remember feeling guilty that I was like doing these things that were not mentioned in the book. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 48:06

Like you were doing more like not feminine things, but like not manly things, and I and I remember you weren't starting fires whilst singing around.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

But I remember very much being like, Well, no, like I worked hard to to be in this musical. I worked hard to be in this choir, and they bring me joy, they bring me like a sense of purpose. Yeah, and I remember reading this book, and this guy's like, Nope, men men do men don't sing in choirs, men do that. And I just remember being like, They direct the choirs, but I remember just being like, Yeah, I'm I'm not a okay. So that was a struggle. So we did say, you know, what book, sermon, or event had the biggest influence on your faith as a teenager. I would say in a negative aspect, the kiss dating goodbye, I think had the biggest influence in the more I think positive or negative, however you want to view that. Um, and so what about you?

SPEAKER_04 49:02

Is there um I remember well in talking about purity culture and being closeted and afraid.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

And for those of you, purity culture is simply like a physical, like with true love weights, true love weights. It's it's where if you do anything physical before marriage, you are tainted. Yeah, you are you are dirty, you are unclean. And so that's where we talk about purity culture is when Ashley and I in youth group, it was a sense of a purity culture where if you did anything physical, not just you know, all the way, but anything physical before marriage that you were not saving you, yeah. So that's our that's what we mean by purity culture, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 49:40

Yeah, yeah. I remember doing that at I think it was first assembly still. Okay, on uh on Demery and Walnut, that church. There was like a weekend, so it was like a you know, all day or afternoon on a Friday and then an all-day Saturday thing. Not a lock-in. You go home, you come back. But I remember doing that with my cousin, and we did the true love weights thing and got our rings and all the stuff. Yeah. Like I don't remember the content really. Right. I really don't. Like, I remember going and getting my ring. That's about it. Like, I don't so I can't like speak to any sort of like what I was feeling when I was being told the things I was being told. But after that, I mean that's what you did. Like, that's what my friends did. Like, there's multiple. I wasn't the only one. There's multiple of us that did that, and that was like my point of pride. Like I was saying in like high school, it's like, oh no, I don't do that. You know, like I don't I don't hook up with guys on the weekends, like I don't, you know, I don't dance like that at the school dances on Fridays, you know, because I wouldn't want to be doing it with a guy, anyways. I'd want to be doing it with a girl, but I couldn't do that either, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

And it's hard because I think people might be like, Well, well, Noel as a youth pastor, do you teach the opposite? And I go, Well, no, I I yeah, I I I don't. I approach everything with grace and love. Yeah, and if I can be frank, I always say, Don't be an idiot.

SPEAKER_04 50:58

Yeah, like one mistake is all it takes.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

That's what I tell my nieces. But you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I I my ministry is all about relationships. Yeah, like I I I view every I play the long game, everything that I share and I speak. I'm playing the long game. I I I'm not doing this for the one hit wonder, yeah, powerful sermon, altar, whatever, raise your hand. Like, I'm playing the long game here. So uh yeah, we're not condoned, like again, just be mindful here. I don't yeah, I don't we're not saying go out and do whatever you want. Yeah, absolutely not. But I'm also just like I also want them to know that like God loves you no matter what, yeah, which is a crazy thing to say, but you know, so yeah, all right. Did you ever wear a WWJB bracelet? Oh yeah, I did too. Oh yeah, I think like those were when you were real little. I didn't have a purity ring, you just said you oh yeah, I had I think I had two.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

Well, what's funny is I'm the first one I had, I had two because I lost one. That's not very pure of you. I know. I felt so bad about it, but I made my mom buy me another one specifically because it has like a cross on it or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

And then I've had Christian t-shirts. Did you and you oh yeah, not of this world, that was number one on their website. I'll be honest, my Christian t-shirts were more camp shirts.

SPEAKER_04 52:12

I didn't have any like no, I bought the ones that was that were like I remember I had one, um, because you know, Frederick Nietzsche says, you know, God's dead or whatever, and there was one you know, did you ever go to Spirit West Coast? No, oh dude, that was no talk about Christians all gathering in one place. That was huge. My mom and I would go to that every year, and they would sell all the t-shirts. Okay, so all the tents with all the t-shirts and all the funny things, and so there was one that was like Nietzsche or Nietzsche says God is dead, and then God says Nietzsche's dead. Oh god, and so it was like but you know, I had to have it because it's funny, or I guess I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

What is I'm actually interested in this question. What's something your youth group got right that today's church could learn from?

SPEAKER_04 53:02

Yikes. I don't know. No, I don't know if I could answer that because I couldn't, I just don't have like I don't know if it's because I've blocked it out. Yeah, I don't know, because I was I was so shy. Yeah, I was so scared, and there were like the kids that were cool and were popular, and the cute girls and all the cute guys, and they all you know hung out together, and like I was like the loser off to the side because I didn't talk to anyone, like I was so deathly afraid of everybody, and so I feel like and they didn't do a great job of like integrating kids, yeah, you know, right? And so I mostly talked to like the adult leaders, like I didn't connect with other kids, yeah, really. And then in high school, like I was going with my friends, but then they were going and hanging out with all these guys that they wanted to, you know, hook up with or whatever, and so it was like uncomfortable for me. So I I mean, I don't know. I don't know if there's anything that got right, to be perfectly honest. There's nothing I can remember that was right, that's or maybe that was wrong. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

That's an honest, that's an honest answer. No, I I mean again, I I think one of the very few things my youth group got right was just they really focused on relationships, and I think relationships matter. Yeah, my youth group did invest a lot into like relationship building. That's good, and so especially integration. Like we we we were very like our youth group is very, very good at that. So um, and that's the reason why I kept going because yeah, kind of like you. Well, why'd you still go? Like honestly, I just I I think because I kind of grew up low income, I I think I had the wherewithal to just kind of like yeah, put up with crap, yeah. But I also like met some of my best friends who I'm still best friends with today. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, and so it was like that relationship building. Although it's interesting because back then they thought I was like this crazy person, but now like the last 10 years, you're like, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 54:49

No, you might have had it right the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

I'm finally with you on this topic or this topic. And so it's been uh yeah, full circle. Let's talk about music. You and I you you and I both you and I both love music. Oh, yeah. Um and I also feel like you know, all the music you listen to today in the churches, I think you can credit the 2000s oh yeah. And for those of you that don't know, Hillsong United, so Hillsong United United was their youth group. That's what their youth group is called. I've been there, yeah. Um in Sydney, and so Hillsong United. Um, so the church, the church is Hillsong, but Hillsong United was their youth group, and Hillsong United definitely they weren't the first, right? Yeah, they really just started this I don't know, revolution of kind of the upbeat, electric guitar, oh yeah, music. I feel like that was more college for me. Okay, but yeah, yeah, but still we're talking about 2000s, yeah, like 2005, 2010. Yeah, and so they really revolutionized worship music, and and I I I would say, I don't know if you can agree, all these music, these performance worship centers now, yeah, and you kind of credit credit or blame, he'll say, Yeah, depending on on where you're at. But but again, there's also though, back then you have pop punk and kind of like alternative rock, and so there are a lot of Christian bands.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Oh, I listened to them all there. So, dude, you gotta look it up, you gotta look up some like videos from what that was in the 2000s.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

We had similar festivals back in Minnesota. I forget it was called, I think it's called Sunshine and Wilmer, Wilmer, Minnesota, the largest ball of twine. Anywho, it's so funny because we're kind of like, you know, we're we're talking about our youth group experience, not more than negative, but I've listened to so many of those Christian bands.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

All right, so let's just switchfoot switchfoot to number one.

SPEAKER_04 56:50

I still I was just listening to them the other day. I love them. Yeah, they make great music, they make awesome music, great music.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Give me your favorite, like a couple favorite songs by Switchfoot.

SPEAKER_04 57:00

Oh, I like everything on Fading West. I love that album. It's like such a surfer, like that might be my favorite vibe that you just feel happy when you listen to it. Okay, you know, everything on Fading West is good, and then the album right after that. That's my favorite album.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Yeah, it's Fading West.

SPEAKER_04 57:17

Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Although my favorite song's not on that album, but the overall that's my favorite album.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

I also just love everything. What's his name? John Foreman. John Foreman. I love everything. His solo albums, yeah. He has a couple songs. Oh, like I'm gonna have to look them up. No, some of my favorite songs are probably him. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Yeah, but what's your favorite switchfoot song?

SPEAKER_04 57:38

I'd have to let me let me look.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Mine is Where I Belong off of Vice Versus.

SPEAKER_04 57:44

Oh, that's such a good song. I love Vice Versus, an excellent album as well.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

Yeah, but that's my fate, my favorite album. But what other what other bands do you listen to?

SPEAKER_04 57:53

Right off the top of my head, so Jars of Clay was huge. Jars of Clay was huge. Who are the who are the guys that um Relying K was a big one? Yeah, they're all right, but they're too like punky for me. No, but they're they were big though, they were huge, yeah. They were big, they were huge. Um, I like When We Come Alive. Oh, that's a good one. On Fading West. That's one of my favorite songs. And Love Alone is worth the fight. Sometimes I like sing those songs really loud, and I just like can start crying, and I don't know why it just happens to me.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

I want to talk about that. I was listening to a song, I hate to we're lying kids. It's called it was it was one of their slower songs, and I was driving and I'm singing these words, and I was it was like I was back at camp in 2003, and like I just started crying for no reason at all. Yeah, and so why do you think that is? I'll I'll give you my interpretation. I think that's God kind of like reminded me of where I came, where I come from, came from, come from, yeah. Like I do have those moments because those were pivotal moments in my life, yeah. Again, pivotal doesn't mean happy, yeah. Pivotal doesn't mean great or hunky dory, but it had an impact. Pivotal is like foundation building, and and and you know, it's like I I feel like I have those, you know, moments, right? I do have listen to Rely on K switchfoot for sure, yeah. And I'm just like, especially that switchfoot song, let that be enough.

SPEAKER_04 59:16

And it's like, oh, that song is so good. That first album, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

But I just like I'm sitting there crying, and yeah, I don't know. I I guess for me, that's what kind of keeps me going in this youth ministry job, and and as a Christian, is like I feel like it's the Holy Spirit being like, see, there is there's something, yeah. There's something, like keep going, keep like, and I'm like, oh yeah. It's a good reminder, yes, yeah, yes, yes, yes. But but yeah, I think what you just said though, like you just sit there and before it's like what's what is a salt salty substance coming out of my eye.

SPEAKER_04 59:52

I know. Well, what's cool about like switchfoot is like they were never very out about being a Christian band, like they were just they made good music and it was fun to listen to and it had a good meaning behind it, they didn't say bad words, you know, but it had like a a solid meaning, and so you can listen to it as either you know a person that's not a Christian or someone that is a Christian and like be attached to it. Well, and their theology is good, yeah. Right? What's all about love? Yeah, it's all love, like that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Yeah, period.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

It's not like their theology is solid, and that's probably why when I am driving down the street now as a 37-year-old, just going home for lunch, like and listen to a song and it just like brings me to my knees for some reason because they're just singing about love and just like wanting it to be that's what that's all that matters, you know. And so, like something like that, as because that was one of the first concerts I've ever went to, and I was in the paper. Really? I wonder if my mom still has a copy of it. I was in the new in the Viselia Times Delta because it was one of those Franklin Graham things and switchfoot was the band, and it was me and my brother and one of his friends were in like in the very front row on the on the thing, like rocking out, and so it's a picture of us in the front page of the newspaper.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

So if you don't mind me asking with the with the youth group experience, because I I have an answer for this, but when did kind of your at what point did you did the light kind of switch for you when you're like, huh? Like that some of that stuff wasn't okay, some of that stuff wasn't healthy, some of that stuff wasn't, you know, back in my youth group days, like what was there a moment where you're you kind of had like this awakening where you're like, huh, like that probably wasn't like the best.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

Yeah. I think probably well, more in my adult age. So watching some of these documentaries, because I think people that are our age are growing up now and are adults and are now unpacking some of the stuff we've experienced as kids, and now they're making movies or they're starting podcasts, or they're you know, letting out their story from what they've experienced, and then I can listen to that and be like, oh yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

Me too.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:03

Like I and so when I watch that acquire the fire thing, I mean it goes into more of detail with like the kids that they would recruit to come and stay for these mission things that they were sending kids out into. Right. And so it went a little bit more in depth, but for the purpose of going to these things and the reason behind why they were trying to bring like I would think I was in like junior high, like I was way too young.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

And like to go to something like this where they're telling you these things and they want and then they call you when you get home. They're like, We want you to come to this camp and we want you to pay to like come be a part of this thing so you can go travel the world and save souls for Jesus. Yeah, and so I would come home and like be all into like wanting to do these things, right? But you can't afford like I couldn't afford it, my parents couldn't afford it. Yeah, but I think in my old age, now reflecting on some of that, it was like, Why did my mom let me go to that?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

You know, yeah, it's interesting the whole salvation for souls. Because I I do remember like going on mission trips, and like that was our reason was to like save souls, and I'm just like and for those of you who know, maybe I know some listeners do, some don't, but like our youth, we don't call them mission trips, we call them servant trips. We're just here to serve, right? We're we're serving, we're we're there's no scoreboard here, yeah, which is a very Lutheran thing, right? Yeah, like there's no storeboard here, we're not saving souls, we're we're putting other people first, and whether that's feeding them, yeah, you know, cleaning up a park or or or whatever. Like we're gonna do that, we're gonna serve action first. And so, but I do remember just like you know, being almost like a a a team in a locker room, be like, All right, we're gonna go out there and we're gonna we're gonna save souls. Souls need to be saved. And I just remember being like, I don't like I think that's where I'm like, call me when you're done. It kinda. I was just like, really? Like, and you do it like that's that's not really good. You do it out of guilt and shame and and and whatnot. You're just like, oh, I I don't know. Was there a moment for you where again, like maybe the you experience more kind of the grace of God instead of like the fear of God? We grew up in a very fearful, like kind of youth group at the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:17

Well, because I mean I grew up very conservative Christian, yeah. And then after going to college and like, I mean, I only went to Fresno, so big deal. But and I went to FPU too. Yeah. But even at FPU, like as when I and I changed my major to Christian ministry, one for multiple reasons. I was trying to, you know, the more Bible I read, maybe I'd be less gay. Didn't help, clearly. Um, but like that was the whole purpose of doing that. And so I thought, you know, the more I immerse myself into this sort of thing, then maybe I'll maybe I'll be okay in the end or whatever. And I think like shortly after, you know, being an adult, getting married to a woman, being happy, and still being a part of like, because we started coming to here to see LC. Yeah. And like, I don't know, I think that's where I was like, okay, this makes sense to me. Like I could, I can get down with this, yeah. You know, versus the very fearful, shameful, conservative, like, you know, you're gonna burn in hell kind of a thing. We don't we don't support the gays kind of a thing, was like scarier as a kid. So it was more in my adulthood that I finally was able to accept myself that I can be both gay and a Christian if I wanted to be. Right. I wouldn't say that I'm that in that moment right now just because I'm struggling with my own faith, but it's definitely in my adulthood where that's sort of those lights are kind of taking on.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

What part of CLC kind of like made you um feel at peace? Was I mean because I'll be honest, we we don't parade our it's very Lutheran of us. Yeah, it's very Midwest. It is like we're we're we're not one to my celia's. Best kept secret. We're not one to yell, kind of you know what I mean? Like, and that's why I love being Lutheran, but at the same time, we also stand in what we believe in. It's a it's a weird dance, healthy balance that's probably not balanced, right? I think people think we can be more, and I think people think we can be a lot less. Yeah. Um, but like what part of like the Lutheran theology, because you didn't grow up Lutheran, no, not at all. What part of maybe you you were always Lutheran, but was there a moment where you're kind of like, oh, like, yeah, this this this place, this campus is like, you know, you you felt that piece. Was there something going on here?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

Well, we got invited. Kat and I both got invited to come when we they were doing the reconciliation thing when Havala was leading that in the youth house through another friend, because we were going to neighborhood. Yep. Um, and so we're like, well, let's go check it out. And like stuff like that, because uh, we're not we're not like you know, we don't go to pride, we don't dress like that's just not our thing. We're just not those kind of gays, you know. We're just like, you know, we just want to be like everybody else. Normal, yeah. So like shocking, yeah, right. And so like how dare you. I know. So when we went to this thing, it was totally outside my comfort zone. Yeah, one, we don't know other gays, we're the only gays we know, you know. So to meet that there's other people in Vicelia or and even just people that wanted to go because they love their gay kid or whatever it is, yeah. That was a very it was uncomfortable, one, because I've never been a part of something like that. Yeah. And so just knowing that that existed, I was like, I had no freaking clue that something in Viselia existed like this. And to mind you, like we went, we spent when Kat and I first when she first got here, you know, 12 years ago, we were going to neighborhood and we were serving, doing like cameras and video and stuff like that. And at some point, you know, we had asked, or I think maybe I asked, you know, can I do stuff with youth? And I was told no. Yeah. So at that point it was like, oh, okay. So we can only come in this far. Right. You know, and so it it hurt a little bit. And I I know the neighborhood's probably a great place. I know the I know a lot of the staff members love lots of them. They're wonderful people. Like, there's I'm not gonna say it's a bad place. Um, but for us, it was like that was like I guess we can't really, you know, be a part of that, you know, and so that hurt. And so we had got invited to this, and so that's when we checked it out. And I was I was all in, you know, like we're like, oh yeah, we're gonna come here now. And then we love Brian, like Brian was awesome, yeah. And like he immediately got us plugged into stuff. Patty Patty was still here, and she like was meeting with us, and just you know, it was so many wonderful people that were just like, Oh my gosh, we're just so excited to see you and to meet you and to get to know you. And it was like an unheard of yeah, sort of environment.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

Yeah, and we're also a church that doesn't take attendance, you know what I mean? Like we're we'll we'll check up on you and be like, Yeah, still good? Okay, like yeah, see ya when we see you, you know. And and so, um, although sometimes with the youth, I'm gonna be like, Where are you at? Well, that's just teenagers for you. What's going on? You know? Um, so uh, so there's a question here I'm almost scared to ask, but here we go. Oh god. Here we go. Where is it at?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:21

I I forgot it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

Um oh here it is. No, wait, I lost it. We had like five pages of notes here. Um if you could sit down with 16-year-old Ashley.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

Oh, you're gonna make me I don't want to sit here and cry about something.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

What would you want? What would you want Ashley to know about faith, salvation, relationships, or uh God's love?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:50

I mean, 16-year-old Ashley was very closeted and very sad. Um, I went through a very dark time when I was in high school. Okay. Very dark. Just because of the very fact that I was closeted. Yeah. And a Christian, and that's not okay, and all of these different things, you know. And my friends are dating dating dudes, and like I'm trying to date men, and it's just, you know, I I tried my hardest and it just I couldn't, I couldn't get there, you know, emotionally. Yeah. Um, and so if I could go back and give my 16-year-old self a hug, just a hug. Yeah, man, like it's gonna be all right. Like, your life is gonna be so beautiful. Yeah, I'll tell you right now, my life is awesome. I was just so awesome, and I would have never thought at 16 that I would be where I am today. Because I wanted to die. Like I was, I was I had suicidal tendencies, things like that when I was a kid or a teenager. And so to think that my life could be as amazing as it is now with the most fantastic wife that I have and just the life that we've built together from like the ground up, all on our own. I mean, of course, we have family and stuff that supports us, but like, oh my gosh. If I could just tell them, tell myself it's gonna be okay, you're gonna be alright, I think it probably would have changed everything. So hope.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

I mean, I mean, and and and don't you think too, like the youth now that's what they need more than is hope.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:17

Well, it's just like someone to love you for who you are, you know what I mean? I feel like but that's adults too. I mean, we're we we adults, we're just kids that grow up thinking that nobody loves us or nobody cares about us. Yeah, but you have to be reminded sometimes, you know, and so like I tell my niece who's just in junior highest like it's okay to have friends, but don't hang out with people that are mean to you. Yeah, life's too short. Have good friends that treat you well, right? You know, and that that would be a good reminder too for your 16-year-old self. Yeah, and that freaking Jesus loves you doesn't even matter. Yeah, like nothing else matters. Jesus loves you just the way you are.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

Yeah. For me, it would be like just have a better attitude for the for the love. Like, well, and I I I think I embraced being the rebel of the youth group. Yeah, like I really embraced that, and that and that wasn't good because I well, someone's gotta do it. No, but like I think I it's I I honestly look back, it's miraculous I didn't get burnt because I played with fire way too much, yeah, way too much. Um, and so I look back and I'm like, God was looking out for me because I could have like a lot of things could have gone astray.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:28

Yeah, um, well, it's amazing to me that you're like speaking about your experience as a kid and feeling the way you're feeling and still going and still being connected, and now here you are the only like youth pastor in Viselia that's lasted as long as you have. Yeah, well, because and you still love the Lord. I mean, cheers to you, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:46

Well, because I think coming from a very unstable life, youth group brought stability, even though the theology was maybe wacko and the pressure and fear, like it was actually somewhat of a physical, physical safe place, yeah. Which I needed because my home was not a physical safe place, right? Youth group was, and the friends I met was a physical safe place, and for the most part, uh mentally too, yeah. Maybe not spiritually, but like, and so in a weird way, like that's what I needed more, is is that physical safe place, which I think like as a church, maybe we should focus on that more, is like physical safety and just more of like providing hope, yeah. In relationships, the psychological safety of it, too. You know what I mean? And so for me, like that's what youth group did was it brought me stability, yeah. It really again created some amazing consistency, amazing friendships and consistent, yeah. Yeah, which my youth group was. I I will 100% my youth group was very consistent, yeah. Um, again, it just had four or five people that were just hammering down on the kiss didn't goodbye and heaven and hell, and I think I just quickly learned not to give myself props, but I just quickly learned to be like eh, whatever. Yeah, yeah, but I didn't handle other people well, if that makes sense. I would have told people, no, we'll calm it down. Yeah, don't don't be such a bully, almost. You know what I mean? There was a partster, yeah. I I think I embraced that role too much. I think I was very, I was very disrespectful. Yeah, if that makes sense. I I I really almost I like I enjoyed it a little, a little too much. I don't know. It was just like but it's so funny. I I I I share this analogy quite a bit. I think I shared it at a sermon uh a couple months ago. I don't know, but like um my kids like switch foot. Oh dude, you know, uh my daughter loves Motion City soundtrack, and oh classic, yeah, they're from Minnesota. Oh, that's cool. Um, I'm still listening to Jars of Clay every once in a while. Um, there's a few, even I hate to say this, but even a few like Hillsong United songs where I'm like they're still they're good, they can get you, like that, but that's what it's for.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:04

Like it's supposed to tug at the emotions, yeah. Like that's it, it's totally meant to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:08

It's a brain thing. I guess going back, we'll kind of finish it with this back to the nostalgia piece. Like, is it how hard or easy is it for you to like look back, dissect it, but not stay in it? Because you kind of said earlier, like you're still you know unpacking things. Like, how do you handle that well? Yeah, first of all, I don't think anyone handles it amazing, right? That's why I use the word well, but like how do you how do you unpack things and but keep it balanced where it doesn't affect the present, it doesn't destroy the hope for the future, right? Because I know people that are so nostalgic, like it almost it ruins their day, yeah, it ruins their week, and they have no hope for the future because they're so like stuck in stuff that's happened and unpacked in the past, but it's hard because you need to unpack it, yeah, because it chains you down, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:01

Well, I mean, you could say that about a lot of things. I mean, why do we go to therapy? Well, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

But I'm just asking you though, like because our topic is something in the past, like how do you handle kind of the the nostalgia part or unpacking things?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:14

I think oh that's a very difficult question, and I don't know if I'm gonna answer it well. But I don't know, I think thinking about it's still good, yeah, right to process it. There's a balance, you know, like because even my wife, like Kat's experienced things growing up in the Philippines, also being very churched all her whole life, private school, like private Catholic school, and then and the and the Christian church in the Philippines is a whole nother level of guilt and shame. Like a whole nother level of the Christian church in Asia, yeah, dude. It is like insane. And so when we like so we watched that that documentary about Aquir of the Fire together, and like they don't really necessarily have experiences like that in the Philippines, but so like things like that, it's good to talk about it. It's like, oh, I remember going to this and I remember feeling this way. And for me, like I don't live back there. I don't, I don't know. Maybe in my therapy sessions, my therapist therapist could correct me, but like I don't really go back there internally to like have to tell myself something just because I'm so thankful for where I am now, yeah, that I'm alive and that I'm happy and that I'm married to the most amazing person I've ever met in my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

You're flourishing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:25

And like I couldn't be more excited to be who I am now, yeah, despite the things that maybe I've been through, which were difficult, you know, as a closeted kid in the Central Valley. Sure, it's hard, but like there's so much more wonderful things to be hopeful and thankful for.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:42

I'm kind of with you. I I my past has so much motivated me to change and create a better future that I kind of sometimes almost ignore it, if that makes sense. I I like I kind of throw it away, which I think could be unhealthy sometimes, because then you just like not a void, but I feel like I'm so focused on creating a better future, I sometimes don't reflect necessarily on the past, and so but that's what therapy is for. Yeah, my therapist actually does a really good job of like uh he'll tell me just kind of like all right, like we've focused a little bit too much on this or or or that. But um, so what was your favorite worship song back in the day?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:28

Oh my gosh. I don't even know, like high school, I can't even tell you. Because we mentioned like Hill Song. I was just curious, like how you so for Hill Song, that's more so that would be more college for me. Okay, and in college, I was working at a church in Fresno. When it was I was interning at North Fresno because I was a youth, I was a youth ministry major, basically, is what I was going to be into youth ministry. Okay, and so I was interning at North Fresno MB. Great church, great people. Worked with a guy named Matt Ford, who's an amazing person. Um, and so we it was a very small youth group, so it was like, I don't know, maybe 20 or 30 kids, if that on a good night. And while I was interning, I was like, we gotta start like we gotta have like a worship night, dude. We gotta like play some tunes, and I was and I played guitar, and so I was like, because I want to be in a band, you know, like I wanna play. Yep, and so I was like, I'm gonna practice and I'm gonna learn on and so mighty to savey to save was huge.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:27

Yeah, that took, that took, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

And so like we played, we had it, we scheduled it, had a worship night, like three kids came. But I got to play guitar. Well, and then we had like a real band. I had some friends from college that came over and like sang and stuff, so that song was huge, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Yeah, it's funny how music has been such instrumental, real quick. Um, my youth group, there were three guys in a grade above me, they're in a punk rock Christian band.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:53

Nice. You ready for the name? Oh god, that darn eve. Darn eve, that darn eve. Oh my gosh. Way to blame it on blame it on women, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:05

Like, come on, and then they stole they stole the Apple logo. Oh no, because the Apple logo has been a little bit more than a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they had they made t-shirts that darn evil. Did they get in trouble? No, they were so small, gosh. But but I do remember though, like that was huge for me because they were they would make they they they're kind of popular in like the local scene, yeah. But they wrote songs and sung about things that wasn't evangelizing, like it was like everyday high school stuff. And I remember just being like, this is what it is all about. Yeah, I remember when I discovered Under Oath, you know, Under Oath? Oh, yeah, yeah. The Almost.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:44

I remember Oh, that song, what's that song? The Amazing Grace by the Almost is so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

But um the I'm I remember going to Underworld, I saw them at Warp Tour, and I knew and I knew they were Christian, yeah. I knew they were Christian, and I love their only chasing safety top five album. Yeah, but the fact that like the Screamo band was Christian, immediately I was like, Yes, different, yeah, different. Anyway, they played their concert, and I remember it was like the last song, and Spencer Chamberlain, that's the lead singer's name. He goes, Hey guys, I just want to let you know that we believe in Jesus and Jesus loves you. And he was like, One, two, three, go. And that was the only thing they said that entire concert. Yeah, and I just remember being like, That's what it's yeah, that's what it's about. It's easy, it's easy, that's all you gotta do. But discovering different Christian artists who sound different and saying different and said different things was also my way of being like, the church is different. Does that make sense? I remember just being like, Oh, yeah, like under oath, Christian band, switchfoot, like yeah, they don't even mention God, but what they're saying is so good, yeah. Like there's different ways of doing things, and you can connect to it. Yeah, so music was like my outlet of realizing church can be different, yeah. It's not just this one youth group in Minnesota that's I mean, it sounds bad, but like it's not just you, yeah. You know, the world's bigger, you're not the say all end all, like other people are doing things different, so yeah, yeah. I listened to Under Oath quite a bit. I don't know. My my my poor kids.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:13

Did you listen to Almost?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

Yeah, the Almost is great. So the Almost is the Under Oath drummer.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:18

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

Yeah, oh nice, Aaron Galepsey. Yeah, I love how you know all their names because I was obsessed with the Under Oath, yeah. That was like a side project.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:28

I think I only liked like one of their songs, too much screaming for me. I mean, I like I mean, I did the warp tour thing for a couple years, but once they started just like it was just like that's too much for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:39

We could get Josh back on YouTube. I we we gotta get people our age because my mom dropped me off at warp tour. Oh, mine too in St. Paul, Minnesota at like 8 a.m. And then she was I distinctly remember being like, all right, I'll pick you up here at 11 p.m. and being like, okay, and off I went. It's like I had like a hundred dollars cash. I remember being like, okay, I want to get a couple t-shirts, and sure enough, my mom was there at 11 p.m.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:06

Yep. My my mom dropped us off. We're I think we're no, I think we drove ourselves. I think we're 16 in Fresno. We did like two years in a row. Yeah, it was insane.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

I got so sunburnt. I remember that. Yeah, Fallout Boy was the headliner. Fallout boy.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:21

My the one year I remember.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:23

Uh Bad Religion was mine.

unknown 1:23:25

Bad religion.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:26

Is that the long jacket?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:28

No, long jacket. Um uh anti-flag was the other one. Oh, I've heard of that. Yeah, they're good. So, yeah. All right, thank you so much for tuning in today, everybody. We hope this conversation gave you something new to think about, whether it's an idea, a story, or just a fresh perspective on everyday life. Don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss future episodes and share this podcast with friends or family who might enjoy it too. We love hearing from our listeners, so connect with us online and let us know what topics you'd like for us to explore. Until next time, keep asking questions, stay curious, and enjoy the little moments that make life meaningful. Hope you all have a wonderful day. Goodbye here from the Grace Period Podcast. Later.