Episode 8 - Disciple (Part 2)

What if discipleship isn’t a class you complete but a life you inhabit? We dive into a bold reframe: becoming like Jesus in every way possible by moving from information to formation, from hearing to doing, and from programs to presence. Instead of auditioning for the “best rabbi,” we meet a Savior who chooses ordinary people and invites them into an apprenticeship defined by proximity, practice, and power.

We unpack why Jesus’ approach to selecting disciples flips expectations and how that choice still dignifies our everyday. Then we explore the difference between knowing about God and knowing God: experiential knowledge that forms us through real action. Think less algebra test and more fishing knot—wisdom gained through repetition until obedience becomes second nature. Along the way, we lean into the promise of Galatians 2:20 and the hope that Christ doesn’t just coach from the sidelines; he lives in us. That indwelling turns timid steps into Spirit-empowered love, whether you’re at the grocery store, in the office, or sharing coffee with a neighbor.

We also get practical. You’ll hear simple ways to practice presence, recognize where God is already at work, and join him without making faith feel forced or strange. From Waffle House friendships to quiet nudges that open surprising conversations, we show how small yeses can shape a life. This is the path from Bible study to Bible doing, where repentance means a new mind and a new rhythm, and mission becomes a posture rather than an event on the calendar.

If you’re ready to trade spiritual performance for a life with God that is natural, relational, and joyfully disruptive, press play. Then share your story, subscribe for more conversations like this, and leave a review so others can find the show. How will you act on what you believe today?

Transcript

Framing Discipleship As Becoming Like Jesus

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello, listeners. This is Scott. Just circling back around with you, ready to have a great conversation today. Last week we talked about discipleship or what it meant to be a disciple. And I think the simplest way that we defined uh the way we use the term disciple is it's living to become like Jesus in every way possible. And so today we're gonna continue on that kind of that topic. And Amy, tell them what we're gonna we're gonna dive into today.

What Discipleship Looked Like In Jesus’ Day

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Well, I think we're gonna try to answer this question about what did it look like to be a disciple in Jesus Day. And are we doing discipleship in Jesus? Discipleship.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yeah, and I really think that it's hard to uh understand discipleship if we define it in modern day categories. And what I mean by that is like we've all grown up in an education context. Like we all went to school. Some people listed may still be in school, but we go to school. And typically the pattern and the model of an education system is that you're given information that it's your responsibility to retain that information to be able to regurgitate information to pass a test in a simple form. And so so much of an education model is information driven. It's all about the ability to gain the information being shared, retain it, and move forward. But I can tell you right now, as a 53-year-old, like if you put an algebra problem in front of me, I haven't done algebra in 30 years. I did not retain the information that I was supposed to have learned in algebra. Right. And so, you know,

Chosen, Not Applying: Jesus Picks Unlikely People

SPEAKER_00 2:03

very different than how Jesus connected with people and led them toward being disciples, right? What's something immediately, Amy, that comes to mind based on things that you've been learning about Jesus and discipleship?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Well, I think one thing is just that he is for everyone. He picks very unlikely people. It's not based on your status or your abilities. It's for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, you know, as a uh as a kid in elementary school, I did all my growing by fifth grade. And so I was a big kid, and I usually got asked to be the the captain for the kickball team, and you pick, you know, who you want for your team. And in elementary school, if you're picking a kickball team, like you start with the the best athletes first, and you're, you know, because you want to be on the winning team. And that's kind of the way that discipleship tends to work in Jesus' day is that the the is actually just the opposite of that. Sorry. The opposite of that. Like in Jesus' day, the the people the players on the team would come to the captain, come to the rabbi and say, Hey, can I be on your team? But this whole mindset of, well, I only want the best people on my team because my reputation is involved and it's all about winning the game. And so the rabbis were very careful with who they selected to be on their team. And Jesus, Jesus did things in just the opposite way. Like instead of having the his followers, his disciples, come to him, like he went and chose those disciples and invited them to come be on his team, which was just the opposite of what the standard was for the day. And he didn't choose who would be essentially the best athletes or the bet the most qualified people. He chose the fishermen and tax collectors and folks that were normal day, ordinary people, not necessarily the best students. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Right. Right. I mean, it's really astounding.

From Information To Experiential Knowledge

SPEAKER_01 4:34

I think another thing that comes to my mind is kind of that discipleship is more like doing like discipleship in Jesus. You just saw the disciples doing what Jesus did. And they lived a life with him.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

They did all of this with him.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Right. Like the focus of an education model is centered around information. And in discipleship, there is clearly information involved, but it's but everything is centered around knowledge. And so when I talk to people about discipleship, I think it's important to understand a Greek term, a biblical term, and the term knowledge in Greek, the word skinosco, and what it essentially focuses on is experience. Okay. So have you been to South Africa, Amy?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Okay. Do you believe that South Africa exists?

unknown 5:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Okay. Well, why do you believe it exists?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Well, only it's on a map. There's people that testify to it, they've come from there, and you lived there one time.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Okay. Well, that's good. So you have informational knowledge. You know, you believe that South Africa exists based on information, right? But I've been there, and so I have a different experience with South with that belief that South Africa exists than you do. Why? Because I've experienced it. I literally have knowledge. And so this is how the term is used biblically, Konosco. Like I have, I have a knowledge of South Africa that you don't have. Right. And the Lord's desire is that all of us grow into and have ongoing knowledge of himself, knowledge of who he is as God, as the creator, as the one who desires to have a relationship with us and to be an active presence in our lives. Like his great plan is that all of us not just have an information, you know, know of who he is informationally, but that we have an ongoing encounter and experience with the truth of who he is and being faithful and kind and experiences of those things because that's what his desire is in

Learning By Doing: Fishing Knots And Grills

SPEAKER_00 7:24

knowledge. So in Jesus' day, right, Jesus didn't just invite the disciples to sit in a classroom and teach them information. He invited them to come follow him and live with him and to be in community with him everywhere he went and watch and learn and experience him as he lived his life to be obedient to his father. Make sense? And so God's desire in discipleship is that we not just have an information. Information is good. We need to study the Bible and we need to have the information of the Bible to lead us into a life of being a disciple that is about experiencing and walking with and expressing God and experiencing God in our everyday interactions. And so living to be a disciple is living to become like Jesus in every way possible. And discipleship wasn't about mastering content like in a classroom, it was about being mastered by the one who loves us and gave his life for us, who sits on the throne, and we learn to live life in relationship with him and encountering him everywhere we go.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Well, this kind of comes to another point about knowledge, learning. Like it's not just learning by taking in information like you were talking about algebra. Like it's really learning by doing.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

It would be very different to just be a student of golf versus picking up a golf club and going to learn to hit a golf ball. I think one of the simplest illustrations, I think, for me to talk about this is like I love to fish. So tying knots. Like you can sit and watch a video on how to tie a knot and learn to tie a knot, you know, the concept of it. But when you start tying it on a regular basis, like I can now tie a fishing knot when I'm in the boat with people and have a conversation and tie the knot at the same time. And my fingers just kind of naturally fall in a certain position that they didn't know how to fall into the first time I tied that knot. Right? Like there's a natural thing that and an exercise that needs to be engaged as we're learning to do something, that we're moving beyond information and into practice. And when we go, when it moves into practice over

Formation Through Proximity To Jesus

SPEAKER_00 10:45

repetition, then it becomes more natural and requires less effort, but yet there's still an engagement, right? What's something that comes to mind for you? Like that's an example. Sorry, those are my masculine examples.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Well, I think cooking, that's not necessarily feminine, you know. Right. But like cooking, I mean, I I love watching cooking shows, whether it's the great or it is baking show. I love that. That's a lot of fun. I love watching Bobby Flay. But like he's he's like the grill master. I don't even know how to turn the grill on. And it doesn't matter how many times I watch Bobby Flay. Like, just watching him has not made me good at grilling. Right. I mean, so if I really wanted to learn to grill, I'm gonna have to try. I'm gonna have to experiment. I'm gonna have to, it's gonna be helpful that I have watched some Bobby Fly, but I'm gonna have to get in there and get my hands dirty and try this out. And I'm probably gonna fail. I'm probably gonna undercook or overcook in my I can't you say probably overcook the meat, but you gotta give it a try. You gotta give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Right. And so essentially a big part of what we're saying that we're learning about, you know, being a disciple in discipleship, you know, discipleship, we're doing it with, you know, with God. You know, this is discipleship is it's not about information. It is there's information involved, right? 100%. And it's critical information, but it's not solely information driven, it's about formation. And so it that is something that revol and you know, revolves around engagement and in practice. And the way that that formation best takes place, and this is the way it happened in Jesus' day, is it happens in proximity to the God that we believe in and the one that they were following, right? Is that they weren't just sitting in a classroom to gain information, they were following him and engaging with him. And so, how does that translate for us?

Christ In Us: Beyond Coaching To Indwelling

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Is well, we actually believe in a God who is omnipresent, and I think we've addressed this before, but imagine living with the mindset of what it would be like to live with Jesus always present. And the reality is that he's he is like he is always present. And so, what if we actually practiced what we say we believe? I think that information that we believe that God is present, being put into practice, and we actually begin engaging, you know, life differently because we're living with the mindset that God is present and we're looking to join him in whatever it is he's doing, just as the disciples did. Like they were following him, joining him in what he would have them do. And I think that that's the aspect that we're focusing on in discipleship is like, what if we really live that way? What if we really believed and lived life practicing what we believe that God is present and that we want to join him wherever we are, because in that place he's present and we want to join him in what he's doing.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Hey, I heard a really great illustration on this one time about proximity, and it was given in the illustration of golf, and it was heck, if you decided to take up golf you've never played, you just decided to take it up, and you had this opportunity for Tiger Woods to be your coach. I mean, that would be pretty awesome, right? Like he could tell you all the things, he could help you read the greens, he could tell you exactly how to do your swing, where to hit, and all the stuff. That's a pretty awesome thing, but you have another option. The other option is Tiger Woods, there is some supernatural ability for him to come inside of you and to not just be your coach telling you what to do, but empower you to use all of his skills and talents and gifts. I mean, now which one would you choose? I mean they're both good things, but there is one that is distinctly better.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

That's great. I've never heard that. You know, it just makes me think of, and I'm not reading it, I'm I'm trying to recite it, you know, what Paul says, Galatians 2.20.

Practicing Presence In Everyday Moments

SPEAKER_00 16:26

You know, I've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer I who live, it is Christ Jesus who lives in me and through me, which is exactly what you're saying. Like that's the plan, that's the desire. That's that's ultimately the life that Jesus came to offer us, is that, you know, that we are in him and he is in us, and that he is living his life in us and through us. You know, I love how Dallas Willard says, you know, that we're learning how to live as though Christ were living his life in me. Like if Jesus was me today and he was living his life in me, who would he be when I'm at the grocery store?

unknown 17:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Right? Who would he be in my conversations with you? Who would he be? And and that's not just like an informational thing, like that is something to engage and to uh practice in order to make the way in which we live. And I think that's more in tune with and aligned with maybe what it meant in some part, our meager effort to attempt to consider what it meant to be a disciple in Jesus' day. But, you know, what does it look like to have him live his life in me if he were me?

SPEAKER_01 17:45

And I think it is plays into kind of discipleship, the way we see it now can often be about like we're saying, knowledge, like taking a lot of classes, it can be a lot of study material, memorization, things like this. That's all good, that's all like Tuckerwood's being your coach. But there's a whole nother level that is intended for the abundant life with Christ, the life where we're abiding in him, and that is when we take the knowledge and we let the Holy Spirit apply that, and or we take the information and we let the Holy Spirit apply that, and then we have wisdom and knowledge and the empowering of the Spirit to live like Jesus would live, to live our life the way Jesus would live it through us.

A Missional Life Beyond Church Programs

SPEAKER_00 19:05

So, you know, I'm just thinking about you know, if you told me, you know, that you're gonna go to the grocery store today and the spirit, the God's gonna prompt you to ask a stranger a question, right? That is gonna lead to a spiritual conversation, right? Like, well, I don't want to do that. You know, if if you're just saying, okay, this is what the Christian life looks like, is like, well, that doesn't, that doesn't sound comfortable. That doesn't, that's not something that's something I'm gonna be very uncomfortable with or I'm gonna be nervous about. And I just, you know, we all tend to just go to the grocery store and buy groceries and leave and you know, go through our grocery list and we're not necessarily aware of and attentive to, you know, what else is going on around us. And I think that's indicative of, you know, how we tend to live, but I think Jesus has something very different for us. I think that there's something much more engaging that he has in store. Like if we did go with the mindset of, well, Jesus, wherever I go today, I want to go to have you live your life through me. And after experiencing God, you know, lead lead me into conversations with perfect strangers and watching and experiencing him bring life or bring hope or bring joy into, you know, whatever circumstance they're going through in their life, and because they had somebody care about them to ask him a question and then follow up and begin having a friendship or a relationship with them, all from an experience of being asked a question in a grocery store, you know, months down the road, you're still talking to and texting and encouraging this person. Like after having certain experiences like that, like I'm much more comfortable and desirous of God using me if in that way, as uncomfortable and as random as that might be before it ever happened in my life, right? It's like I've discovered this is incredibly life-giving. And I would much rather experience, you know, that conversation in the grocery store and getting to know this person that God prompted me to get to know, potentially. You know, I'm just, you know, hopefully you're understanding, like there's something so much more on the other side of joining God and the things that He would have us do. And I'm randomly picking the grocery store, but how much more life there is when we're outside of our norm looking to be with God, who's present, and joining him in the things that he would have us join him in, which is usually. another person and the circumstances of their life.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah. I think you're speaking to that element of faith that's involved in the the the life of walking and following Jesus is a supernatural life. It's not a just you know something

Repentance And Reframing Discipleship

SPEAKER_01 22:27

that can be programmed, you know. Right wish programs can be great. There can be a lot of good things to programs but really the life of a disciple of Jesus is going to be a supernatural life that really requires faith in him. It's total dependence on him.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Well absolutely and I think this is one of the things that is so you know I think paramount is I think a lot of people when they think about these steps to do to to live a life of faith it just starts getting weird and and uncomfortable to even consider. And I don't think that there's necessarily something weird or you know necessarily uncomfortable about living a life with God. It doesn't have to get you know all spooky and crazy like I think it's actually the most natural thing and can be the most natural thing that we come to experience in life. Like we were created before the fall we were created to live a life encountering and in relationship with God. And so to connect with God on a daily basis is actually a returning to who we were created to be. That it becomes the most natural thing for us as we engage a present God and live our life interacting with him. Like that's I think his desire and that's a part of what is connected to that term conosco like that there is an encounter with the Lord that doesn't have to be some weird you know Pentecostal type expression. It's but there is absolutely the maybe the most natural thing that you and I experience as we grow into encountering him and learning how to walk with him as his disciple.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Well I mean faith is a foundation I mean it's we receive salvation you know is where all of this gets its starting points and it's the very thing at Hebrews tells us it's pleasing to God. It's not all of our

From Bible Study To Bible Doing

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Bible memorization it's not our theology it is our faith in God that he finds so pleasing so it's really a foundational faith.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Right and and faith is I think in its simplest form you know it's acting on what we believe. Yeah without acting without there being some action to what we say we believe you know the question would be really do we really believe that and so that's just that a a life of faith is a life of action trusting in one that we believe is present and wants to be wants to reveal himself to be present in the world that we live in wherever we are. And so you know one thing that you know we look at I would I would say you know living life to join God wherever we are is really what it's like to be a disciple of Jesus and to have him on the throne of our life. And I would just call that living missionally is that like it's great to go on mission trips. It's great to go and be a part of planned activities that are like a mission day that the church may be organizing. But like God's desire is not that we live and that our understanding of mission is to go be a part of you know an effort to go clean up a local school. That's fantastic. That's a wonderful organized event that the church may put on to go clean up elementary school in your neighborhood or to do something like that. Fantastic. But there's so much more that God has in store for us in learning how to live missionally that again we're going to join him with whatever it is he's doing wherever we are because wherever we are he is present with us and he is already there and he's already doing a good work and that we're living like Jesus we're trying to be disciples becoming like him in every way possible and he said I simply do what I see my father doing and say what I hear my father saying what would that what would life look like if that was the goal of our day I want to join God I want to do what he's doing. I want to say what he's saying and if he has for me to say something to someone in a grocery store then I want to do that. And my greatest desire is to is to do that. Not that it has to be all weird but that it's potentially a loving gesture and done with a heart to love. So I think we really need to move beyond seeing mission as the planned activity that the church puts on. Like that's good. 100% that's good. But there are times where the good can be the enemy of the great and if that's all that we're leading people to understand life in Christ is outside the walls of the church, then man, we have not led the people to understand the Jesus that we see in the New Testament. And that is a Jesus that was present with people and that met people wherever they were and you know addressed their needs and led them toward experiencing the God of heaven to be present where we are so it's like I have a lot I mean what do you have some kind of like a little summary of what we're saying for today's talk. I'd say you know in large part you know we're learning how to see Jesus joining God and engaging others wherever we are we're learning how to be his apprentices and how to live life with him, being transformed, you know, having those uncomfortable moments of well I'm uncomfortable with you know move from you know an informational part of who we see Jesus to be and what is it, what do we what are the words that we're reading on the pages of the New Testament and learning how to become the active expression of those in the world we live in. Like Jesus's plan is for up there to come down here on earth as it would be in heaven. And so that his plan is for heaven to come and invade the earth and it is through his people that he chooses to do that. And so if his people aren't the active agents into that world and we're just a people that are all about information and not growing in the knowledge and leading to the expression of having the kingdom come here on earth as it is in heaven, then we're missing the whole plan. And so he wants to he desires to he loves for us to abide in him and him bear fruit through us to his father's glory. And so I think that's what discipleship is is it's learning how to connect with him and let him be himself through us, bearing a fruit that only he can do but he wants he's chosen to do it through us. And the experience that you and I have is life. We discover something far beyond being able to fill up our grocery bag with the groceries on our list. We discover something so much more to you know connecting with someone in the workplace and we enjoyed going to work not just because there's a task that we're good at accomplishing but that there's a people that we are good at connecting with and loving and caring for and so you know it's it's relationship. You know I I had a real quick story you know my son one of my sons and I used to go to Waffle House on a regular basis, you know, on the way to school we call it special breakfast. And the Lord just prompted me one morning, you know, for sure type story to ask this waitress that had been our waitress a couple weeks before a a question and that began a conversation and that led to us going to that specific waffle house on a regular basis and over the next two years built this relationship with Miss Cheryl that still exists today. And that was over 10 years ago. You know so you have no idea what God has in store for you and what you what we may be missing out on if we're not necessarily attuned to or aware or mindful of what God may be wanting to do around us and how he may want to open our eyes to see things and to see people in a different way. And I can only tell you that I have found more life because of being able to connect with Cheryl than I would have if I'd just gone to Waffle House and eaten my ash brown bowl.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Yeah. That's good that's sweet.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

So discipleship it's not a program it's not information it's not a classroom it's it's learning to be with Jesus and have Jesus be lead us into a transformation internally and lead us into a life of joining him in what he's doing and what he wants to do through us. Right?

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Amy what is how does this tie to some of the earlier lessons that we've talked about like what stands out to you in what we're talking about with discipleship well this I mean legitimately has been a huge part of my journey with Jesus and what immediately stands out to me from our terminology from those first Bible lessons is the beast on repent. Because I think I had in my mind that discipleship I have been in discipleship groups I've always been Bible study I felt like to be discipled I needed to memorize scripture I needed to be able to be prepared to give an answer to questions about scripture to have the right theology like so for me to be discipled I had to learn all this stuff and then the Lord just really just blew my mind with this idea that discipleship was not about the information it was about doing life with him empowered by him it was all about the word of God and all about the indwelling of the spirit of God to do what I could not learn enough on my own you know information's helpful but like I was completely dependent on him to make me live my life so that Jesus could could really be the one living it through me. And so for me it was a change of thinking it was repentance like oh my gosh I have been thinking about this the wrong way and I need to change my thinking and then I think probably some other piece has come into play that we talked about but for me the starting point was repent.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yeah I you know I don't know that there's one specific lesson I think I kind of see all five in in this piece like the culture of the kingdom like learning to live as you would if you were in heaven like that you're considerate that you're mindful that you're curious of the people around you and that you want to care and you want what is good for them that you know the throne like you know if discipleship isn't about mastering content but it's about learning to be mastered by the one who sits on the throne and have him live as master of your life then you know the throne makes sense. Repent like the change of thinking the like my greatest desire like the broken water like my greatest desire is to want whatever it is you want. Like I think that was how Jesus lived. I I simply do what I see the father doing like he didn't he wasn't asking himself what do I want right now his passion was to want what his father wanted in any given moment in any given scenario and you know then the rules of the game you know love wins like being and becoming the expression of God's love into the world and caring for people I don't know I see all of them you know kind of riddled through this mindset of discipleship. You know again, you know my discipleship in a program like there absolutely can and will be structure around anybody who goes through you know a group of discipleship and I lead guys in discipleship what I call discipleship, right? And so nothing wrong with there being structure and being a time that you sit and discuss. But ultimately to be a disciple if we're going to follow the biblical model it is that there's an expression of Christ in me into the world that just begins to naturally happen to bear fruit.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

So it's life lived you know with Jesus the way that he wants to live his way in me if he were me, as Dallas Willard would say. Yeah. So you know a lot more to discuss. This by no means is like this the are we the Bible on discipleship or disciple there's a lot more that could be discussed here. But I think hopefully this kind of breaks a little bit of the mold that it's just about you know being a part of a class study and then you could go replicate that information that you learned to share with somebody else to replicate that information that they could pass on the information but that there's an impact happening in the world because of the transformation that God's doing in each of us.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

And you know Jesus let your kingdom come here on earth as it would be in heaven through Amy and and me and all you out there that are seeking to become like him yeah okay I mean hopefully we all are making the transition from not just Bible study but to Bible doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Good yeah good I love it okay well we will see you guys next week thanks for listening in and hope you got something out of this lesson