Episode 13 - Seeing is Being

You can be doing “good” things and still miss what God says is valuable. We’re talking about that moment when your calendar is packed, your mind is racing, and a person feels like an obstacle instead of a gift. That tension reveals two competing ways to live: the default reality of hurry, achievement, and control, and the kingdom of God reality Jesus sees in every room he walks into.

We lean on Dallas Willard’s VIM framework (Vision, Intention, Means) to make spiritual formation practical. Vision is becoming like Jesus. Intention is actually wanting that, not just admiring it. Means are the day-to-day practices that train our attention and reshape our instincts. Scott shares a story from his time as a pastor that exposed how “ministry tasks” can quietly become more important than the people Jesus loves, and how one simple word, valuable, reframed the entire morning.

From there, we connect the dots to abiding in Christ (John 15), leadership, parenting, and workplace pressure. When you’re in a hurry, you can’t love well. When you slow down, you start noticing what might be happening under someone’s attitude, stress, pain, overload, and the invitation to carry burdens with them. We talk about choosing curiosity instead of frustration and asking, “Father, what are you doing here, and how do I join you?”

If this resonates, subscribe, share it with a friend who feels stretched thin, and leave a review so more people can find the conversation. What has your attention most days, and what would change if you asked Jesus for his eyes?

The Ruthless Elimination Of Hurry by John Mark Comer The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: How to Stay Emotionally Healthy and Spiritually Alive in the Chaos of the Modern World: Comer, John Mark, Ortberg, John: 9780525653097: Amazon.com: Books

Transcript

Tempo: 120.0

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome back, listeners. This is Scott. I'm here with Amy, and we are just continuing our conversations about life in the kingdom. And, you know, today we have something really interesting to talk to you about. It's something I think is is really helpful, has been really helpful in my in my life. But before we get there, just kind of a quick recap. You know, we've been talking about what does it mean to be a disciple? And kind of our language is that in that is living to become like Jesus in every way possible. And when that's the focus of our life, so many amazing things happen. We've been talking about, you know, what does it mean to abide and be, you know, connected to the Lord, like he's empowering us to flow through us like an extension cord is one of the episodes we just talked about. And, you know, how we live out this authentic expression, these authentic actions, how he flows through us to care for and love other people in the world. And so today we're going to kind of dive into that a little bit more. Go ahead, Amy.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah. I mean, you know, we've been talking about all this, and it sounds great. It sounds like a beautiful life, you know, to walk out with the Lord. I mean, the reality is what does that look like in the middle of Tuesday afternoon? So it's the reality of how do we do this?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

You say you said an interesting word there. In my mind, this is one of those, I have this kind of personal phrase of like dueling realities, right? There's a reality of you know what we're dealing with in life, and there's also spiritual reality that exists in every you know, opportunity, every circumstance in life that oftentimes I think we just kind of miss. But Jesus seemed to see things differently than we tend to, and and he saw a different reality of what was at hand oftentimes. And so there can be a dueling reality, and one of those leads to life as we've always known it, and the other leads to a life of living according to the kingdom. And so that's part of what we're here to kind of talk about today. So, but as we engage this conversation, I want to point out to you something that Dallas Willard teaches, and and I learned from him. He he likes the acronym Vim. The three letters are V, I, and M. And unpacking those, like the V stands for vision, the I is intention, and the M is means. And Dallas says, you know, really when we're engaging any form of change, them is at hand. Like we oftentimes may not necessarily recognize it or unpack it in that way, but if we're looking to engage change, then ultimately having a clear vision of what we're pursuing, having an intent to pursue that, and then a means in which to get there. As an example, if I had a vision to build big biceps, right? Because that's something that I'm all about. And I'm saying that, you know, and I'm not telling the truth when I say that. I'm being sarcastic. If I had a yes, I know. If I had a vision to build biceps, that would be a good thing. But that doesn't build my biceps. I have to have an intention to go work out, and then I have to have a means. So I need an actual dumbbell to pick up and to do exercises. But with a vision and an intention to build a big bicep and an actual means of the dumbbell, then with practice and, you know, activity, then my bicep's going to grow, right? And so as we look to apply that same context to our spiritual life, right? Today we're kind of unpacking a bit more of how do we engage practically in some means, in picking up some dumbbells and learning how to find some discipline? Because for us, our vision is the what we call a disciple, living to become like Jesus in every way possible. Our intent is, you know, are we motivated? Does our heart truly desire to be Jesus' disciple and grow to become like him? And if that is the case, then we need means by which to engage living as a disciple in this world. And that's our conversation for today.

unknown 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

What are we doing so far, Amy?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

I think it's good. It's what we're talking about is not like fantasy. You were not trying to just be in denial or pretending about things. It's really like a different interpretation, a different way to see things.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

It is. Yeah, one of the primary means for spiritual growth, you know, formation, is learning to see reality as God sees it, as we talked about previously, like learning to slow down and have a God-centered reflection would be a means, you know, to begin seeing what's going on. But in this case, like in a scenario of life, are we just living as we've always lived, you know, according kind of to our old nature, or are we learning to see things as as God sees them and for the second reality, for the bigger reality, for the spiritual reality of the case at hand? And so I have a little story to kind of quickly tell you. Found myself in a moment, I was a pastor in a church, and it was a Sunday morning. And Sunday mornings, I was in charge of, you know, a lot of the volunteers in the church, a lot of things. There was Sunday mornings were busy for me. I'm kind of walking around, making sure people are where they need to be, doing what they need to be. And, you know, it's kind of a hard time to it. I found myself sometimes having a hard time just stopping to be present, especially early in the morning before things got started, to make sure that all the ducks are in a row, right? For how things are gonna take place that morning. And I walk into the restroom because my bladder was full. And when I walk in the restroom, there, the the men's restroom there had like four urinals, you know, along the wall. And when I walk in, there is the person at the first urinal that I'm gonna say they're an extra grace required personality, right? They're the the type of person that I found myself having a hard time being patient with. They they seem to have a lot of need and take a lot of bandwidth to to spend time with. And and so I walked all the way down to the fourth urinal because I didn't want to stand next to this person and give them an opportunity to start a conversation. And as I'm standing there, the Holy Spirit was like just this little internal moment of like, really? Like, you just walked all the way down to the fourth urinal to avoid this person that I that I love deeply. And a conviction came over me, and I'm like, wow, right? That I just recognize something internally that God was pointing out, like I am so quote, busy and interested in my little projects and little things, my responsibilities for the morning, that I just walked past someone that Jesus loves deeply. And I did not even want to be anywhere near them. And by the time that I had washed my hands and left the bathroom that morning, the Lord just gave me like this this image of Scott, I need you need to walk around and look at everybody in this building that you see this morning as though they have a t-shirt and across the chest of the t-shirt says valuable, right? These people are valuable. And I was so convicted because I was walking around thinking that all the projects and all the little placements and all the responsibilities I had were what were valuable. And Jesus, through that conviction, like it really broke my heart of here I am, a pastor in a church who tries to deciple people. And I'm so focused on task that I am completely distracted, and I'm seeing this person to be a problem and a hindrance to my morning because they're going to want to sit and talk for 10 minutes and tell me all about their week when I don't have time for that. And I it was a hard, it was a hard lesson to learn, but it was so eye-opening for me to see a different reality than the one I was currently living in. And so it literally became a moment where I literally had some t-shirts made and took to my discipleship group and told this story of how God was convicting me. And I wanted to invite these guys that I was in discipleship with to have a t-shirt and join me in a life of learning how to see people wearing valuable across their chest. Because that's how Jesus sees them. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

You know, it's like eagle when we see something differently, we become something different. It's like a different lens to look through. Seeing I guess, I guess maybe we should call this episode seeing as being.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah, yeah, how about that?

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Learning learning to see the reality, the way Jesus sees things, is a vital means to our spiritual development and growth. Right? Jesus says repeatedly in in the Gospel of John, you know, I simply do what I see my father doing and sit and say what I hear my father saying. So seeing what the father is doing around us is so paramount to living in accordance with the the culture of the kingdom, right? Like in the kingdom, people are important. And so oftentimes, just imagine a project at work. Like you have this, you have something that you're doing at work and you're trying to move on to the next thing, and one of the persons on the team is like holding up the progress of finishing this project, and immediately that person becomes a problem. And in the kingdom of heaven, in the culture of the kingdom, people are not a problem. People are the opportunity. People are the are the thing that is valued. And so anytime that people are the problem, then we're missing the reality of living accordance with the culture of the kingdom. Right. And so I like this mindset and this phrase to try to adopt. Like what carries your attention is the most important thing in your day. And so if my attention is on the project that I have and getting this thing completed and not the people that I'm with, then I'm probably missing the opportunity to live according to the kingdom, or missing an opportunity to be a follower and disciple of Jesus, learning to be like him. Because for Jesus, people were the opportunity of the day. Like people are what carried his attention, and they were the most important thing that was happening in his day. And so if we're gonna be like Jesus, then we need this means to exercise uh learning to see things the way that he sees them.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Totally. It kind of goes back to the whole John 15, you know, abiding peace. The I think we call it the extension cords a bit, but it's not some kind of mystical detachment, it really is just staying connected to the mind to Christ, so that his perspective becomes our perspective, and that his love can flow to us and fill us in such a way that we just naturally have an outflow of that. And so when we abide, we begin to see things differently because we're seeing them more through his perspective, and we see differently, and we act differently, and we become different people, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah. I mean, and in the dueling reality, like in the natural reality, the way we're we're accustomed to living, like people can be difficult. Like, you know, they're they're negative and and they're a problem, and their attitude is not right. And, you know, we have many ways that we would point out how they need to change. You know, they're slowing up progress, they're an obstacle to what, you know, needs to be accomplished in the moment. And in God's reality, like He would look at, I think Jesus would look at this person and see what's going on behind the scenes in their life. Like they're overwhelmed. They have a lot going on. You know, maybe they have a lot going on at in their home life. And the reason that they seem to have a bad attitude has nothing to do with this project, but has everything to do with the opportunity that Jesus might want to love them in their hardship. You know, their pain becomes something that becomes the natural thing to see because their attitude or their demeanor is just an expression of the pain that's going on inside of them. And so when we begin to see things the way that he sees them, then we begin to notice the deeper things happening within a person, not just the obstacle that they may appear to be in the progress of my report for the day, right? And so in the natural reality, you know, my goal is the task to complete, you know, and they're an obstacle and people become a problem. But Jesus has something more for us to see, you know, in God's reality, you know, my goal becomes love. They're someone to care for. And while tasks matter, people matter more. And this is the way that things are in the culture of the kingdom. People matter.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

I really liked your story. Uh for somebody like me who's a doer, and I have a lot of friends who are doers. I think a lot of people who are moms or parents can take on that responsibility of just being on 24-7, you're always doing something for somebody else, and having this sense of having so much to do to accomplish a good life, to be a good mom, to be a good parent, to be a good worker, to be a good friend. There's just so much to do. And it leads to so much busyness that most of it is probably live in more of an accomplishment type reality. I mean, I think that our culture where we live in the United States is, you know, very much achievement-minded and sex, and that's not all bad, but we have to keep that in check. And but that is not necessarily the reality of Jesus' kingdom, and so we have to constantly be going to him, and as a disciple, learn to shift from how do I get this done to Father, what are you here doing? How do I join you in that? And that's I think that's what you're talking about as the means, not just trying harder, but seeing it in a different perspective so that we become more like Christ.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Exactly. Yeah, well said. You know, one thing that I have learned about God in my short time of being on this planet is that he is never in a hurry. And I find myself often in a hurry. And so if I'm going to live to become like him in every way, then he's been teaching me over the past few years how to learn how to slow down. I like John Mark Comer's book, you know, you need to ruthlessly eliminate hurry. If for those readers out there that haven't read that, but you know, you cannot love someone in a hurry. Love requires us to slow down and to be with people and to hear their stories and to engage with them in their pain and to see them for who they are and who Christ would seize them to be, and to join him in being a present with that person and and engaging them in the life that they're living and caring about them to be able to be someone who comes alongside and helps, you know, carry their burdens. You know, Galatians 6, too. If you bear your burdens one to another, you'll fulfill the law of Christ in your life. And so slowing down enough to love others and to see the burdens that they may be carrying and to join them in that process is is so so significant. So, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

I think that this goes back to something we've talked about previously, about when you feel the tension, slow down, take a breath.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

And be curious what's going on here. You know, what am I thinking?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I love that curious piece. You use that word a lot, you know, that rather than frustration when we're seeing people as a problem, rather than frustration to let the means of desiring to see as Jesus sees become curiosity. Right? Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Right. There's a quote that I heard long ago by Abraham Lincoln. I just it's always stuck with me. And it's real simple, something like this. I do not like this man. I must get to know him better. And I love that because it's not, it totally is just like your story that you told to. It's about the tension. You know, I don't like this person. Maybe I should get to know him better because there's something when we do that, we are going to find the value in that person. And God will show it to us.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, there's a there's a lot of wisdom in that statement.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

I love that. You know, so you know, wherever you are, maybe you can recognize again one of the phrases that Amy and I talked a lot about already, and we'll continue to talk about, you know, I think that the Lord sometimes does his deepest work in the midst of our tensions. And so what's your story? What's your what's your moment of tension? And who is that tension with? And do you see them to be a problem? Um, where any of those things may be true in, you know, the circumstances of your life, then see them as a means by which the Lord is inviting you to see things in a different way. And come follow him and what it means to walk in the ways of the kingdom and to join him in the things that he's doing as Jesus did with the Father. And and, you know, in large part, this is a primary piece of what it's like to try to and the things that Amy and I have been trying to learn over the years as we encourage. Encourage each other to what's it like to follow the teachings that Jesus has? And, you know, from these perspectives that we're learning, how to slow down and join him and to recognize how my internal old way wants to keep trying to live by a pattern that one reality is more important than the kingdom reality. And discovering sight to see the kingdom reality invites so much more life than what I used to know. And so anyway, we hope you guys are getting something out of this. We're excited about, you know, kind of the next step. I think our next conversation, Amy, is really about, you know, kind of maybe part B of this conversation, but we'll plan to pick that up next next week. Just really encourage you guys to focus on, you know, what is it that's that that has your attention most? Because that is that is something that is really important for your formation spiritually. And if projects and tasks and busyness and everything else are the things that have your attention through the day, then I think Jesus has something more to offer us in a life according to his culture and his kingdom. And uh so we're excited about what he's doing and what he has in store for us. You got anything else aiming for us this week?

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Well, I think I need a raise for the whole seating is being that's kind of catchy.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

I like it.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

You might need that my pay.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

I like it. You uh I'll give you a Christmas bonus. Just hold on to that one for me, okay?

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Yeah, double what you gave me last year.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Right. That's it. Double what I got you last year. A double portion. So quick recap, you know, if we were gonna say, what is our V I M, you know, for for what we're talking about this week, you know, it's our our vision and the whole focus of everything we're doing is to become Christ-like in every way. Our intention is living to become like him. And then our means is in this context, we're saying learning how to see reality as Jesus sees it. And so we hope you guys have a great week. Go ask Jesus to give you his eyes and to slow down and to engage a life in the kingdom. Have a great week.