Episode 16 - What do you think about God?

You can go to church for years and still carry a picture of God that quietly keeps you anxious, guarded, and tired. We sit down with Amy and talk about the moment you realize, “I thought I believed the right things about God… but I never really examined what I assumed.” That one shift can change everything, because what you believe about God shapes how you pray, how you handle guilt, and whether you run toward Him or pull away.

We dig into the false narratives that show up in real life: God as easily disappointed, God as someone you should avoid when you fail, and God as a last resort instead of a present Father. We talk about repentance as changed thinking, the Holy Spirit’s role in revealing what we can’t see, and why inner tension can be a signal that something else is sitting on the throne of our hearts.

Then we get painfully practical. Think dream house, dream school, a future you want for your kid, or a timeline you can’t stop managing. When does a good desire become an idol? What does surrender actually look like? Scott shares a Navy sailor’s story that reframes delays with one line: God is not in a hurry. We anchor it all in God’s character, He is only good, loving, wise, and kind, and we point you to a helpful resource, The Good and Beautiful God. We close with Dallas Willard’s reminder that information doesn’t transform us; interaction does.

If this challenged you, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s carrying heavy tension, and leave a review so more people can find the conversation.

"The Good And Beautiful God" by James Bryan Smith

The Good and Beautiful God: Falling in Love with the God Jesus Knows (The Good and Beautiful Series): Smith, James Bryan: 8601420922501: Amazon.com: Books

Transcript

Tempo: 120.0

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Good morning, listeners. This is Scott. We're here with Amy. And we've got another conversation we want to have with you guys. If you listen to last episode, Amy was talking about and sharing her story. And uh so good morning, Amy. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

I'm good.

unknown 0:19

Good.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I'm excited. I love our conversation to keep it going.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Yeah, I think that, you know, one of the standout pieces in your story is something that I see regularly as I connect with sailors in the Navy. And, you know, a lot of the sailors that we connect with are maybe, well, several of them have grown up, you know, not in a church with a church background. And so a bit different than what life is typically like in a lot of the Bible belt areas that you and I have grown up around. But it's always fascinating to me, like some of the things that we talk about. And so today, you know, I wanted to pick on one of the things that was so pivotal for you. And it was like this deeper understanding of who God is, right? Totally. Is there something that stands out to you? Like, did you recognize that there needed to be this transformation of your understanding of who God was?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

No. Like I really thought that I thought well about God. And in many respects, I did, but I really thought, uh I don't really think I have any false narratives about God. I mean, I feel like my beliefs really align with like the Bible. And I don't struggle with thinking that God loves me. So really, I I thought I was pretty good in this area. And then I was like, oh. I read this book that kind of pointed out some true false narratives. And I was like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

That was the good, that was the good and beautiful God that you'd mentioned, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Right. Yeah, I think that um, you know, listeners, if you heard our early podcasts when we got around to the the one on repent, you could hear a false narrative that I clearly had about God, you know, where I really felt like, you know, God was kind of waiting to be frustrated and with me again, and that, you know, my misunderstanding of what repentance was or what the word repent meant really led me down a path of believing the wrong things about God, where, you know, every time I did something wrong or sinned, like God was very angry and disappointed with me. And the last thing that then I wanted to do was go to God when I felt guilty about something. And so just out of the context of misunderstanding what I felt like I was learning about Christianity and God, I it really put created a false narrative about who he is and how he feel felt about me. And so I, you know, didn't want to turn to him. So it was very yeah, it was a breakthrough when I began to discover afresh and anew the nature and character of God that again, like you, I truly felt like my beliefs about God and who he was were absolutely accurate. And I think that's something that I see regularly. Like we all tend to believe what we think about God is true of who God is. And we all seem to be convinced that we don't need help with refreshers or greater understanding of who God is. And yet, as in both of our stories, and I think this is pretty typical, some of the greatest breakthroughs in our relationship, God, relationship with God, come from an understanding that what we had been believing about God was not as true or nearly as true as what we believed. Like this the breakthrough of a truth about him and his nature and his character led to each of our, you know, transformations into pursuing and finding God in a whole deeper way, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:45

True. And it's just like when I was telling my story, there's an quote, I told something to the to the effect that what we believe about God may be the very most important thing about us.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

And like thinking about that, it's really powerful because it says to me it is worth it for me to take some time to examine what I truly do think about God.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Okay, so this is a fascinating aspect, I think, of this episode. Like, well, if we all believe that we are believing truthfully about God, how in the world, like if you're convinced you're right, how in the world are you gonna get to the point of understanding or recognizing that you're not right and begin to, well, repent, change your thinking, right? I mean, how does that how in the world is that gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

It's been attaining the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

It is. It is. And one of the one of the things, I think one of those, again, those five lessons that you and I refer back to so much, and and not that we're like trying to camp out in those, but that we you and I have both discovered personally that those five pieces are so pivotal and seem to keep popping back up in our lives. And, you know, and I see them in other people's lives. And I sat here on Friday night with our sailors, and we were we were talking about the we were reading through Nehemiah, and one of the sailors popped out and said, you know, this is just like absolutely the throne and the broken water, right? And they were just like using our language, I mean, that that language that we talk about regularly and beginning to see things themselves. And that's that's beautiful because they're beginning to have a lens to identify the things that God's doing. And so to help, to help listeners be able to identify where is something that I am believing about God and convinced that I'm right about God, but that I probably need some help in a redefinition or a fresh, you know, clarity to a truth about God that is that is needed for spiritual growth. I think Amy, the broken waner, is a huge piece. I think when we find ourselves wanting something, but not necessarily wanting to ask God if this is what he wants. Let's just say you were going to buy a new house, right? And you're you're shop, you've been house shopping for months, and then you find this house in the neighborhood that was your number one neighborhood, and it has all the aspects of the house that you want, and you're ready to like put a contract on this house, right? I mean, everything is lining up. This is picture perfect, exactly what you want. Like, is it easy for most people to just say, well, let me pause before, you know, put a contract on this house? God, is this what you want? Like, I think it might be easy to say, well, God, if this isn't what you have for us, then you know, we trust that you'll work that out. But I think that can be different than saying, God, I just want what you want. And I want you more than I want this dream house of mine. Like, I think it's one thing to like say, God, I want you to bless it because I don't want to not ask you to bless it. Right. And there's a difference in being able to come and surrender that thing to God.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Right. Now, I think what I hear you say concerning the broken honor and the concepts of what we think about God, I think what I hear you saying is I want God to be this way for whatever reason, like because that's how I am, or because I that makes sense to me, or because that's what my tradition says. And so maybe our water is broken, and because we we want to hold on to our, you know, clearly defined view of what we think God is like.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Exactly. And that's the very thing that I think ultimately, hopefully, this episode helps us all understand, is that we all have a confidence in who we believe we understand God to be. And the reality is God is so much more than what any of us can imagine, is that there's always more of God to understand and to come to and to surrender to and to discover than what we've ever known. And just like, you know, somebody told me years and years ago, you know, the reason Christians don't read their Bible is because they believe they've already know what it says, right? And and there's a lot of truth in that. Like, there's a lot of truth of like, you know, well, you've read, you know, the Chronicles of Narnia before. You may not pick it up and read it every day, right? But the Bible's not just another book. It's it's a place and it's a living and active place that the Spirit of God engages and speaks and directs, and we we find a God in. And so, you know, we all need that strength because we're weak. But we all also believe that we know who God is. So we don't often, we're not often challenging or asking ourselves or asking the spirit to reveal greater truths about who he is because we feel like we already know him. And I think that's kind of crazy. That's like going on one date with your spouse and saying, Well, I know that person now, and so I don't need to spend any more time with them. Like, what would that relationship be like?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Right, right. Well, you know, I talked about this when I shared my story, probably the biggest piece of that language you and I use for this for me was repent because to me I was just thinking wrong, and I didn't realize it.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Like I was open to to whatever was true. I just didn't realize that what I thought. I guess I just not thoroughly examined what I thought enough to realize that I did have false narratives.

unknown 12:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

So once I realize what I think is not correct, and then I could say, well, God, why would you have me think and change my thinking? And that's the repentance piece. Right. So, so talk to us. Why don't you point out some something, one, two, maybe more things about God that you think people struggle with, or that you struggled with.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Right. Well, I think that there, as I as I kind of lead into that, like I think that there are a number of things that without even recognizing it, that we tend to default to where we're not necessarily trusting God, but we might not be aware of it.

unknown 12:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Again, you know, throne kind of mindset or the broken water kind of mindset. Like, you know, it's easy to think about something like the house, like material possessions. Well, I really have my heart set on this. Like the more invested your heart is to a thing, right? The more likely it is to become an idol. And the and the idols in our lives, and we, you know, as Tim Keller says, you know, our hearts are just little idol factories. The idols in our lives want to replace God and want to be focused on the idol rather than God. And so things like a car, a new car. Well, I really just, and you know, next thing you know, you're driving this new car and you're excited and you love it. And not that you were holding God at arm's length, but maybe you were. Like, never even kind of thought to like have God a part of this. And again, why would you not want your spouse, if you're in a relationship, why would you not want your spouse a part of this conversation? You know, something with your kids, right? I mean, you you mentioned like where Kate was going to go to school years ago. Like, what are these idols, these dreams that we have, these things that we really want that we're scared put before God? Because, well, if I put this before God, then my dream might not come true. And I don't want to risk that because I really want my dream to come true, because I'm convinced that my dream is what's best for me. And this is where we get into looking at some of these attributes of God. Like, Amy, God is only good. And from my experience, while we may believe that to be true, time and time again, I have come across and had conversations with people that have been believers for a long time that may not have been living or truly understanding that truth. Like, God is good. He is only good. There is nothing but goodness in God. Like if God is doing something, he is doing something that is good. He can't not do something. Whatever he does has to be good. Like he can't do bad, he can't do evil. It would defile his very nature. And so God is good and he's only good and he's only going to do good. And so if God is doing it, it's a good thing. Now we tend to look at the circumstance of a situation and create a narrative over the thing that's being done, and then consider whether or not we think this is a good thing that's happening. And if we don't think it's a good thing that's happening, then we don't think it's right and that God could be in it. But God is in things that we don't think are right all the time, and He's doing something good. Right? Right. I was I was sitting with a sailor just a few days ago, and they were talking about this long, drawn-out process that they've had to go through with this legal issue. And I'm in time again. They're like, oh, and there's another delay, and then there's this thing happening with the attorney, and then it just like this thing that could have happened, what in seemingly a month got drawn out over a six, seven, eight month, you know, time frame. I'm not exactly sure exactly how long it was, but it was months and months that they just kept having to wait for the courts and for the lawyers to get through this thing. And finally it was being resolved. And as they were telling me this, I said, Do you see how good God is? Like I literally like kind of interrupted them. I said, Do you recognize that God is never in a hurry? And they just kind of started laughing. You know, they're like, Yeah, he's not in a hurry. He's never in a hurry. And and it's so true. Like, God is not in a hurry, but why? Like, how is it, how is it brilliant that God is not in a hurry? Because, like in this instance, for them, it's like, I mean, I could just kind of see it as they were talking. Like, how beautiful is it that God has allowed this thing to take, let's just say, six months rather than a month, because of the thing, like the throne, like the position in your heart was getting exposed, and that God very lovingly and patiently wanted you to be able to see, I really want this to be gone. I don't like this tension hanging over my lives. And none of us do. But the Lord wanted them to be able to see that they're not comfortable with something happening the way different, differently than how they would dream for it to happen. And so, how beautiful and loving in this season when the sailor is like pursuing God and desiring God, like that he allowed this thing to that could take place in a matter of weeks, right, to get expanded over months and to allow this tension to come up in their heart because he wanted them to see what they could not have seen if they didn't have to be patient and wait on him. And they're just like, they're like, oh my gosh, I never recognized it that way. Like the beauty of God being patient and his goodness behind this thing, like that it comes to this point of when we can see that, like we've come to God with a praise and a worship, like, thank you for making for letting this be uncomfortable because you're exposing how my heart wanted to hold on to my way of doing things. And yet, out of your loving, your you're like, just as God is only good, God is only loving, right? Like he can't do something that is not loving. You know, love is wanting what is good for another, even at a cost to the self, right? In its simplest definition, right? That God is wise. Like God has never made an unwise decision, right? He's kind. So God is good and he's loving and he's wise and he's kind, and he exemplifies the fullness of that word. It is his very nature, it is his very virtue. And there are things that God is doing in our lives that we may not even recognize how he's wanting us to have a deeper, greater understanding and greater encounter with him in circumstances and in situation in our lives. But oftentimes we just, you know, kind of go about our own way and say, say, over a circumstance, well, this is not good. And our prayers even become, God, make this circumstance change because I don't like it. Right? Just like the sailor with the legal issue. And God's like, Well, you don't see the good thing that I'm doing in it. Like this is this is a beautiful thing that's happening. I understand it's not comfortable for you. So I'm I'm I'm rambling now. Um the preacher in me starting to come out. So what are you hearing in this?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Well, I'll just say the point venture making about God in all the thing that comes to mind. I'm like back sometime, maybe around 2020, I had a really jarring experience that just really shook me in a lot of ways. Like it was kind of like a wounding of your soul. And but and it was horrible, it was terrible, but I knew that there was something that God had for me in that because I truly did believe God is good all the time, and all the time God is good, even though I was going through this terrible thing. I just hung on to that being true. And honestly, it was that very shaking that took me on this journey of examining all these things that I believed or had questions about things like that, which ultimately led to me loving God so much more and loving people so much more. And so anyway.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

So back to back to our tension of you know, a thing about tensions, like God is often doing his deepest work in the greatest tensions in our lives.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

You know, I think that I think the main thing that I would want uh listeners to be able to hear is number one, whatever you feel like you're you know, just convinced about and you're understanding. Of who God is, invite the Holy Spirit and ask him, would you show me and would you reveal greater truth to me? Like if there's so much more of who God is, would you come and bring more life by revealing the more and exposing the things that just kind of settled on with God? Because ultimately, where we find ourselves living with anxiety and not being able to trust God or holding back something from God, it's going to create a tension. Right. We talked about this really with the all the way back to the episode of the throne. Like when you have two kings trying to own one territory, you're going to have conflict. And so there's a lot of conflict that we live with in our lives that God really doesn't desire for us to have because he wants to lead us to a place of peace that comes from being able to trust him with this thing. So I would just like to ask listeners to consider coming to the Lord and bringing tensions or bringing something they're anxious about or bringing a time frame of something that needs to happen, or bringing something that maybe the spirit kind of identifies as an idol to the Lord and say, Would you, would you teach me and lead me how to see who you truly are and be able to trust you with this thing? Whether it's a dream you have for your child to be a professional athlete, and therefore, you know, your life is driven by having to constantly go to the little league baseball games because you have this dream or your kid has this dream. And well, at this point of the game, it would be really hard to trust God. And I don't know that he's really good because I don't want to ask him if this is what he has for us because we're too invested into this thing. Like that's where the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy. And where we aren't comfortable bringing anything before God, that issue is not going to be something that brings comfort in our life.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Where we're not comfortable being able to trust God, then that's and that's an area and an issue that's not going to be something that brings peace into our life. And so God's good. He only wants what is good. And we can trust him with the dreams and the aspirations and the thing, the things that we we want and desire in life. He knows that. But he loves us too much for them to become idols. So this making sense, or am I just rambling?

SPEAKER_01 24:43

Uh oh, it's good. I think I would uh say to people from uh experience that this is a worthwhile time investment to really sit with the Lord and figure out what you believe about him. I don't care if you're a pastor, I don't care if you're a missionary or a preacher kid, or or if you've never heard about God, it is worth your time to sit and really consider what you are thinking concerning God. And if you need some kind of resource to help you with that, I I highly recommend the book that we've imagined the good and beautiful God, and I'll add the link for that book in our show notes. But just to give you an idea of some of the things that some of the narratives that that book looks at are God being good, God being trustworthy, God being generous, God being love, uh, God being holy, God being self-sacrificing, and that God transforms. So if any of those are things that you just spark your interest, that might be the Holy Spirit working in you that you go, ooh, right. I would like to know what it says about that. Yeah, I just think this is a great guide to help to it was so helpful to me to help me see what I was believing that was true, and also what I was believing that was not true.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

That's great. And the the pastor in me just wants to, you know, challenge everybody who's listening. Like, this is for you. Like, there is not a person who's gonna listen to this episode who this this is not for, because it's for every one of us, even you know, even you and me, right? Like, there's so much more that God has for us that he wants to reveal. I love what we're gonna kind of wrap up a little quicker today. Um, I love what Dallas Willard says as he just kind of unpacks this. He's like, information alone does not bring forth change in people's lives. And I'm I'm paraphrasing, right? And so the information that you might believe that God is good doesn't necessarily bring forth change in your life. He says that change requires interaction. Change comes from experience. And so thinking that God is good and believing that information may not necessarily bring forth the transformation or change that God wants to bring compared to when you are putting that belief into action and then you experience the goodness of God come onto the scene. And that's what God wants. And we'll probably talk more about that when we talk more about knowledge. But God wants each of us to have an experience of his goodness, his loving kindness, of his wisdom. And my experience is the more we do that, the more we begin to have eyes to see it. And and and suddenly we're living in a in a world that is full of a color that spent most of my life not being able to recognize. And so I just want to kind of wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to take a minute and and to ask the Holy Spirit, say, Lord, you know, He is God. Lord, would you show me the things that you have more to reveal about your nature and about your goodness and about your love and your kindness and your wisdom over all the situations in my life? And um, where you have anxieties, then ask the whole the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the goodness of God in those and what is it that he wants to bring peace to. Where you may have idols, are you willing to come to the Lord and say, I want to learn to trust you more with this? And I want to invite you into it and see how he might lead you to something even more and good and beautiful and more peaceful than what you've experienced before. So it may be a hard challenge, again, usually because we we're convinced that we're all good on this one, but I think God has something beautiful uh that he wants to do in each of our hearts. So, Amy, you got anything to say here at the end?

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I just hope it won't take us up on a challenge because I just think it has something really good for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

It does. I mean, each day.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

So we hope you guys have a great week. Hope you're willing to take a couple minutes and pray into that and then watch for and look for and listen for the things that the Holy Spirit that God's trying to reveal to give bring more life into this season that you're walking through. So have a great week. We'll uh we'll catch up with you next week. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah.