Episode 20 - Where Discipleship Meets Conflict

A blowup with someone you live with can turn your own home into a pressure cooker. We start with a simple, relatable scenario: Amy and her roommate Jenny are close, the conflict is real, and Amy knows she’s at fault. From there, we ask a different kind of question than “How do I win this?” We ask what it looks like to live as a disciple of Jesus when tension is loud, awkward, and unavoidable.

We lean into Jesus’ teachings and the Kingdom of God by getting practical with God’s character: love, kindness, patience, faithfulness, and wisdom. If God defines those qualities, then discipleship means learning to embody them in the exact place we’d rather react. We talk about love as agape, choosing what is good for the other even when it costs us, and we show how a small act, like buying your roommate’s favorite ice cream or choosing quality time, can shift the whole emotional climate of a home.

We also name the gap between feelings and obedience. Love isn’t a mood, and acting lovingly isn’t “fake” when your emotions haven’t caught up yet. It’s surrender, not performance, and we believe the Holy Spirit meets us there with guidance and power to repair what we can’t fix on our own. We end by pushing reconciliation past “I’m sorry” toward rebuilding trust and learning to love each other better. If this resonates, subscribe, share the show with a friend who’s navigating conflict, and leave a review so more people can find it. What relationship are you trying to rebuild right now?

Transcript

Tempo: 120.0

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello, listeners. This is Scott here with Amy, and uh we're glad you guys are joining us here for another episode. You know, our podcast entitled In It Together, where Amy and I sit and talk about how we are learning to live life according to Jesus' teachings. And ideally, and hopefully, joining him and invoking the kingdom of God here on earth as it would be in heaven.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hey, yeah, we are super excited about today. And it's based on a conversation's gone. I've been talking about it, it was just an example of how to apply so many of the things that we talk about. And we're gonna use hypothetical to kind of relate this to you. So the situation is think of a close relationship apply, close in relationally, but also close in proximity. So, like maybe it's a family member that you live with, or maybe it's a roommate kind of situation where you're good friends and roommates, and all of a sudden there is a conflict. So we're gonna kind of use me and a fictional roommate as the example. So we're just gonna say Amy and Jenny are roommates. We've been friends for a long time. Room and together. And anytime you have a conflict with people, there's there's joint things to own in that. Basically, I truly have done something really wrong concerning my relationship with Jenny. So I have a great fault that I need to own and try to address to reconcile my relationship with Jenny.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Right. So Amy, imagine would you call this situation with Jenny attention in your life?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Oh, major. Because I mean, right? It would affect everything.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Where I live. You know, just the peace in the house, all those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

So a significant tension has has arisen between you and Jenny. What have we said about tensions on this podcast a number of times before?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

They're invitations.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

They're invitations. Oftentimes, uh maybe all the time, you know, God does his deepest work in us in the tensions of our lives. And I don't think that this scenario is any different, right? Off you know, I think oftentimes when we get into these tension moments, we get so bewildered that we can't see straight. And we don't know, like, I don't know how to go home and and live, you know, with Jenny, if I'm you, and what this looks like, because we had this big screaming argument, and there's a lot of tension in the room, right? And so I would just I would just want to ask you, okay, Amy, so you and Jenny have had this big argument and this kind of falling out, and you're asking me some advice, some counsel, what do I do here?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

One thing I would want to start with is, you know, I think there's so much of life that we're called to in the kingdom and in Jesus' teachings that if you look at the whole piece of scripture, that it all goes back to Genesis 1, 26 and 27, where God created us in his image, he created us man and woman. And as we live to become like Jesus, being a disciple, live to become like Jesus in all every way possible, then we'll find ourselves returning back to who God created us to be, person who's in his image, right? That's where I think that definition of disciple is so healthy and valuable, um, living to become like him in every way. And so I would want to begin with talking to you about give me a few of the attributes of God. Let's do, let's do like four or five. Give me an attribute of God.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Love.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Okay. So God is loving. Give me another one.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Kind.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Faithful.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Okay. Patient. Okay. That's four. Is there another one just stands out to you?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

You want a pick one?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

He's I'll say he's wise.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

God is wise. And so when we're talking about God's attributes, like he embodies the definition of that word. So for instance, there is no minuscule amount of foolishness in the nature of God. He is, he fully embodies and expresses wisdom, right? He is only wise. There's no foolishness in him. He is only patient. He is kind. He is loving. He is faithful. Like he defines what faithfulness is and looks like. Are you with me? And so when we focus on that reality, then there comes this invitation to be like him, if that if we're living to be a disciple, right? And so let me just ask you, in your next, you know, you're going to go home this evening and be roommates with Jenny, and y'all have this big falling out. If you were going to be like Jesus, if you were going to be like God, and you had this huge tension, what would be what would what would patience look like in your house or apartment that y'all had together?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Well patience would probably mean that maybe I'm willing to wait for the right opportunity to talk to Jenny about trying to work this out.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Maybe I don't just barge in and force the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Okay. What about? Let's pick a different one that might be a little more tangible to start with. What about loving? So again, I think it's easiest and simplest to define love from a biblical context, Greek word agape, of wanting what is good for another, even if it means that there's a cost to self. You know, that's the picture of the cross, is the clearest piece. So wanting what is good for somebody else, regardless of whether or not there's a cost to self. What might be a loving thing for you to do?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Well, maybe I would think about things that I know she likes, like maybe I know like something that I cook for dinner, something that she enjoys, and maybe I go home and cook.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Or if not, at least I have it and tell her I made it for her.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Okay. So if I were to ask you, what are your top couple love language pieces? Like the five love languages, right? Love languages, if you're not familiar with those, or right, spending time together is one of the love languages, doing things on behalf of someone else, like gifts, giving gifts to someone, verbal affirmation. The fifth one is, you know, physical affection, right? Giving someone a hug, holding, holding someone's hand, right? Like these are the five love languages. And we all tend to, you know, kind of slide toward a couple, you know, to have as our as our love language. What Amy, what, what are Jenny's? Do you know what Jenny's love languages are? And what are your what are your top two and what are Jenny's top two?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I I know we'd be gifts and words of affirmation.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Okay. And so I'm gonna say that Jennies are gifts and time, quality time, right? So already you already you you know Jenny well, and you both have in common as roommates gifts. So what is something that Jenny would like? Like if what's what's something that she you know has an affinity to?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Um Jenny loves ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

So I and I know the flavor she likes from the place she likes. So maybe I got ice cream.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Do you feel like you would feel like you were doing a loving act to do that?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Do you think that Ginny would feel loved and that that was an expression of love?

SPEAKER_01 9:58

I think she would recognize it.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Okay. Do you see how being a disciple of Jesus just reshaped the entire environment in your apartment?

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Like when we find ourselves in tensions like this with a roommate, right? It's I I just kind of imagined to be like everything for me is in in is a picture. I imagine it like a pressure cooker. And it's like drilling a hole in the top of that pressure cooker, and suddenly this immense amount of pressure just started to be relieved. And I believe that that is oftentimes what the felt expression is when the kingdom comes in our lives. Right. So living to be a disciple and wanting to be like Jesus in every way leads us back to the who are you, it's actually who you were actually created to be, like God. And by living a life before him to become that and to embody that, I would say is an act of worship, right? You're not doing it for you. Like you're live, a disciple is you're living to become like him and to live with him. Like he's omnipresent, he's always here. We've just talked about that in, I think, in the previous episode. And so you're now walking into that apartment. You've gone and bought ice cream, you're desiring to be a person in Ginny's life, that you care about her, that you want what's good for her, that you're willing to make sacrifices for her, that you want to reconcile this tension and this relationship. And all those things are attributes that come from God. They're the reality of who he is when he's having his way in us. I love how Dallas Willard says, you know, we're living our life as though if Jesus were me, this is who he would be. So if Jesus were you living with Jenny in this tension, these are the very things that he would do. He would care more about her than he did about the argument or the thing that you were arguing over. That it's not about the right and wrong, right? Rules of the game. It's about loving. It's about being kind. It's about being faithful to your friendship more than allowing a you know point of argument, you know, break up your friendship. It's about being patient with one another beyond what felt comfortable or right to us. Like patient is is partnering with faithfulness to be a true friend and to work past a grievance, right? And I think that those things actually make you closer together. But oftentimes what we find ourselves doing in these great tense moments with a close friend, I think the closer the friend, the harder it is sometimes to see. And we don't know what to do, and we don't know how to change, and we don't know what the a vision for how to move forward is. And I would just say learning how to stop and to join the present God, the Spirit of God, who is with us and wants to guide us and direct us and wants to show up and empower us to do what we can't do without him. Like, it's not always easy to like love someone that you're that you're angry with. Right. Right. It's not easy to express love with someone that you don't like in the moment, right? And you might think, well, that just seems disingenuous. And I would say, no, love is love is is a choice that you're making, not an emotion. Right. And so just because you don't feel an emotion doesn't mean that being loving and acting in a loving way is not the right thing to do. Are you with me? But I think we live in a culture that says, well, you always have to feel, it feels disingenuous. And and I don't I'm not so focused on what it feels like in the moment. I'm I think focused on who you're living to worship in the moment that maybe it maybe it may not feel like, you know, when you're angry, may not feel like you want to go buy that ice cream for Jenny. But when you have the third party of the presence of God in your life and you want to die to self to live to become like him, then suddenly you can have a new motivation that is empowering you to love Jenny in a whole new way. And the emotion will follow, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

So this reminds me like truthfully, in my life, when I've done things like this, like acting on what I know is loving and right and like God. What you're saying is very true. Like, I might not feel it in the moment that I'm planning to do it or that I'm doing it, but there's something about like just bodily doing what God has created us to do that does somehow begin to change us. And so, like with this just kind of made up situation, like I mean and Jenny, like if Jenny loves quality time with someone, well, maybe I also cancel my plans with other friends to be home at night when Jenny is usually home. And she knows that I would have plans with somebody else. So she's gonna recognize that I've changed something to be home.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Right. And as you would as you would often point out, like, this isn't about performance. So just because you might not feel like, well, I feel like now I'm performing because I don't, my heart, my emotions aren't in this, right? We're not talking about performance. We're talking about we're talking about surrender.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Surrender to who God is and what he's wanting to do and who he would be if he were you in this moment, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And we're walking with God like we are doing the things that we know are the godly things to do in this situation because this is who he is. He he is loving, he loves to be close to us, in relationship with us, to spend time with us, he loves to give to us, he's generous, he's all wise, and so we're doing these things to bring the kingdom of God into this broken relationship. And well, I was just gonna say, like the darkness cannot overcome the light, so it's our opportunity to bring the light into the darkness.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Like I I love to talk about how brilliant Jesus is and how his ways here on earth as a plan just is absolutely incredibly wise. Like he's the smartest person to ever walk the planet, right? And interesting that one of the primary things that he is leading us in is relationship and how to how to join him in relationship, how to reconcile relationship with the Father and to be reconcilers in relationships, right? And so primarily to to the Lord himself. And so, like, just listen to how simple and how brilliant this is. Like he's got it rigged. Like, you want to be my disciple, then come return to who I created you to be, right? Then come and become like me in every way possible. And I will give you my spirit, who will be your guide, who will be your counselor, who will direct and reveal truth to you and guide you in this path and show up and give you ideas and speak wisdom to you and give you direction when you did not have it on your own, who will empower you to do what you cannot do without me, which is oftentimes to love, you know, unconditionally. Like, well, you may not have the ability to feel like you can love Jimmy in the moment, but the Holy Spirit's going to empower you, right? Uh to love and to bring love back into the scene, that you're acting lovingly and that you're finding yourself being patient when you know, like, I don't have any patience right now. Well, you you're not in this alone. Like when you're living life with the Lord, he is, well, he's always present anyway. But now you're like living in that truth, you're living in that reality, and he can bring about all sorts of change that you never imagined possible. And that's what is nine times out of ten happening in these scenarios, is like you're joining with the Lord in what he is doing as a person who's reconciling, who's wise. And so, like acting in these, in these attributes, like that just suddenly bring a vision into the room where you didn't have a vision. I don't know how to go home and how to be around Jenny because of this blow up that we had. And suddenly you engage what does it look like to be a disciple? And we just talk about things like this, and you're like, okay, a minute ago you didn't have a vision of what this looks like. Now you're going out and buying, you know, cookie dough ice cream and have it with the notes sitting on it in the in the freezer because you're excited about joining this life of who God is in you and being like Jesus. And it's beautiful, and it's transforming, and it's life-giving. And as you said, it's bringing light into a dark place. And I would even like to say it's in a small way how the kingdom of God is coming here on earth as it would if you were in heaven. Like, I think in heaven, you would want to buy Ginny, you know, cookie dough ice cream every day. Fair? Like I'm pretty sure it's in heaven.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

I mean, in heaven, Ginny is gonna have cookie dough ice cream back in her freezer. She's never gonna be without cookie dough ice cream.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah. We we might we might get off on a tangent there then. It's heretical. But yes, yeah, you we're on the same page, right? And so why not? Why not be loving and kind and patient and wise and faithful? Like he's going to guide you in each of those, he's gonna empower you in ways that you don't know how to do that, and he's gonna. Even show how it kind of expose, okay. Well, Amy, before when you were in argument, you were you were living more according to the old self, but I'm inviting you to a whole new way of life. And my spirit is here to to empower you into returning to who you were created to be, into being like Jesus in every way possible. And I have a whole new life available for you. And it doesn't mean that there aren't going to be hardships in life, right? We're not talking about that you'll never, ever, ever again have a dis you know, a disagreement with Jenny. It is about learning how to live according to and invoking the kingdom of God here in this place and letting Jesus be Jesus in you and Jenny experiencing the same thing, right? So go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Well, so there's something I think could be a really key thing to point out in this, because we're talking about a conflict with someone, and at some point there's gonna have to be conversation, you know, and the party who has really done something very wrong in this situation. So at some point, yeah, I'm gonna need to tell Jenny I'm sorry that I did this. I uh hope that you can forgive me now. When you and I were young, that's what we were taught that reconciling look like. Like exact, I'm sorry. And somebody says to forgive you, you know. But but what I have learned is that God's reconciliation is so much more than that, is so much better than that. It's not just the work, I mean a humble heartfelt. I am sorry, is very important. And someone, the other person forgiving the wrong party, like we're seeing two more attributes of God. One is humility, the other is forgiveness by the other person, but then it's the rebuilding, the wreck and silent together, to love each other better, to trust each other better, to move forward with a deeper relationship that it's building trust and building love and building um just appreciation for the other as how God made them. So, like there has to be that piece that that goes forward, right? And so many people myself included, have just thought that reconciling was just, I'm sorry, I forgive you. Well, that's good, but there's more like godly reconciliation builds.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Good. And I have a confession to make, Amy. When we were little, I didn't always mean I'm sorry when I said it.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

I know.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

It's okay. Forgive me. I was just as mad when I said I was saying I was being made to say I'm sorry as I was before I said I'm sorry. So well, hopefully, listeners, this has been helpful for you. Again, this is what Amy and I sit around and talk about. These are things that ways that we're finding life according to Jesus' teachings, and as he's leading us and and coming alongside us to live life in alignment with the kingdom rather than just the way we've always been in this world. That he's come to rescue and to save us and to lead us into life. And so hopefully you're finding some some help in uh how we're in this together. And hope you guys have a great week. Hope this is helpful and that you're able to jump more clearly into that life-giving reality of what it's like to live to become like Jesus in every way possible. So you guys have a great week, and we'll see you. We'll see you next time around. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

See you later.