Episode 6: How Your Money Stories Shape Your Financial Reality

Money problems aren't always money problems.

In this first-ever guest episode of Outsmarting Your Brain, I'm joined by money coach Jasmine Drummond for a conversation about the beliefs, fears, and stories that shape our financial decisions (often without us realizing it).

We explore why more money doesn't automatically create a sense of security, how scarcity and survival mode influence our choices, and why so many people stay financially stuck trying to solve the wrong problem. We also discuss financial nihilism, avoidance, hyper-independence, and the role that community and support play in creating growth and success.

If you've ever thought, "I just need to make more money," but still find yourself feeling stressed, stuck, or uncertain, this episode offers a different perspective.

Because sometimes the biggest obstacle to financial freedom isn't your bank account. It's the story you're telling yourself about what's possible.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you've ever felt like you're just one bad month away from financial disaster, even though you make really good money, or you've been telling yourself, when I have more money, then I'll feel secure, well, this episode is for you. Today I'm joined by money coach Jasmine Drummond. And together we're going to be unpacking why money problems are often emotional problems in disguise, how our money stories can determine our financial reality, and why trying to solve the wrong problem is what often keeps people stuck. Welcome to Outsmarting Your Brain. Jasmine, thank you so much for being here today. Um, and by the way, you are the very first guest expert that we've had on the Out Smarting Your Brain podcast. So I'm so honored to have you here. Thank you so much for doing this.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Thank you. I'm so honored to be your first guest. It is my pleasure, and I think this is gonna be really great. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

So, Jasmine, you're a money coach. And um, I'd love for you to share briefly what does a money coach do? Like who do you work with and what do you work with them on?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Great question. So I will tell you a little bit about how I actually got started in the business because it definitely reflects what I do as a money coach. So I first got started being a money coach. I was a recent college graduate. I was living in a new city. I'm originally from Maryland. I was living in New York at the time. It was me and my best friend. We had an apartment to go to, but we did not have jobs. So, needless to say, I was financially struggling. We all know New York is one of the most expensive places to live in the country. So I really started this business being someone who struggled with money, knowing I knew how to make money, I knew how to spend money, but I really didn't know anything else about financial literacy. So this business truly found me at the right place, right time. I met someone who kind of introduced me into this. Um, and it's just been a learning journey since I got started. What I really loved was that I could apply some things I personally um needed for my own finances and help others. So, what I do as a money coach is really just that. I sit down with people, figure out where they currently, what financial goals they have, and give them a step-by-step plan on how to actually make that a reality. So we focus on things like insurance, investments, getting out of debt. But really, what I mostly love as a money coach is helping people with their mindset because that is one of the biggest things. I could give the best financial plans in the world. But if they don't have the right mindset, it's out the window. So that is definitely a huge part of what it is I do.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

I love that. Thank you so much for that explanation. And as you know, like here on Out Smarting Your Brain, we are all about understanding why our minds get in our own way. You know, the ways that we we have these thoughts and these beliefs and they hold us back and then what what they are, where they're coming from, and then what we can do to, you know, work with our brains so that they are not obstacles anymore. So I love what you said about mindset. And that leads me into the first question I have for you. We're we're just gonna dive right into it. Like none of this, you know, right? No, no, no small talk around here. This is it's all deep talk, right? Big talk and deep talk. Um, so when people come to work with you, what is it that they are typically like, like what's the problem that they're that they're wrestling with when they come to work with you initially?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Great question. So initially, one of the first things that we usually address is sometimes forgiving ourselves for past financial mistakes that we had with the limited information we had at that time, right? A lot of the times we stay stuck in financial cycles or stay stuck in a financial mess. Sometimes it's avoidant and I don't want to look at it, therefore I keep staying in the same spot. Or, you know, maybe I'm trying a whole bunch of different things and not sticking to one strategy. So definitely addressing things like are there any past financial traumas like maybe a divorce or a legal battle, or maybe you lost a lot of money, maybe you went through a big financial emergency. And sometimes we have to work some of that stuff out, truly diving into your relationship with money. And that is usually one of the best starting places that, you know, I like to start with, other than gathering, you know, okay, how much do you have in savings? How much have you ever invested before? Of course, those are typical questions that I ask, but really in those beginning appointments, I'm really trying to get to know what is the mindset of the person that I'm working with so we can start where we need to start and know what work we need to do.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

So it sounds like even though, you know, even on the surface, it there's a lot of logic to this. Like we know we want to make more money. We know that we want, you know, we want to grow our wealth or things like that. We have these very clear logical goals in mind, but it sounds like in a lot of cases, the money problems aren't really money problems when you get down underneath it. Is that is that true?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I would definitely agree with that, Jackie. It seems that sometimes we think, oh, I just need to be making more money. And sometimes that is true, especially with cost of living going the way it's going right now. A lot of the times that can be true. But a big part of that is also excuse me, knowing how to manage that money, right? It doesn't make sense to bring a whole bunch of money in the picture if we don't have the right systems in place, the right, the right mindsets and beliefs in place as well. So definitely uh that's one of the first steps. And I think also, as you were saying, you know, one of the underrated steps, right? Things that, you know, most of the time people come and sit down with the financial advisors, they're thinking, okay, they're gonna ask me, how much do I have here? How much do I have there? Right. And that is typical of a financial advisor. But what I really love about what I do as a money coach, it's really getting into the nitty-gritty of what do we actually believe about wealth? Do I feel deserving of wealth? Right. Like these are some questions that an average financial advisor is not asking, but is essential to really get down to the problem.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So I'm I'm really curious, what are the top two or three money stories that you see in your clients that are, you know, the the misunderstandings or the misconceptions or the assumptions that they're carrying that are making it more difficult for them to do those things that they already know they need to do to grow the wealth or the financial stability that they desire?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

That's a great question. One thing that we're definitely seeing common right now is a term I've recently learned about called financial nihilism. So, what financial nihilism is, is basically people having the mindset of this economy is so much in the trash. Well, we'll keep it. You can curse if you need to. Okay, go so much in the shitter that it's like, why would I even try to save? Why would I even try and buy a home? It seems unfathomable and unreachable to let's say the average nine to five worker, even if we look at minimum wage, we know wages aren't keeping up with cost of living. So a lot of people are feeling the grind of everyday hustle and don't have a lot of hopefulness towards the future. So that is definitely, and we're seeing that mostly in Gen Z. I mean, I can't even imagine trying to graduate college in this current state, right? So it's definitely a huge transition. Um, but we're also even seeing it in older people, right? People who might be closer towards retirement, feeling like I've worked so hard, saved all this money, and now it's in jeopardy, right? So financial nihilism is a big one. I'll tell you another common one that I see is the helper. So the person who is consistently helping other people, whether it's $20 here, $50 there, or maybe you are someone who donates to a charity or a church fund, or, but then we look at your financial house and we have a whole bunch of disorganization and disorder, right? So people who are consistently wanting to help or might just be in a um state where someone is financially dependent on them. Maybe they have kids, maybe they have a parent that they're caring for, um, but they're consistently in a state of helping others and they're never able to build for themselves. And we know we've all heard the saying you can't pour from an empty cup. So unfortunately, there are times that we have to address that sort of mindset as well. So those are some pretty common ones that we see, um, but there are definitely a a lot out there.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah. Wow, I've never heard that phrase financial nihilism before. That that's that's a very like visceral phrase. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And it makes it makes a lot of sense, right? Because we we're driven by our beliefs, whether we're aware of them or not. You know, the bel beliefs are just like the way I like to look at it is, you know, belief is just a decision that we've made about what's possible or the way the world works or or something like that. It's a truth that we've decided is true, but it's not an absolute truth, you know? Um and especially, you know, if you've grown up in a situation where things have always been this way your whole life, it makes sense why you might have that worldview, even though objectively, you know, there there are other options. It's not that, it's not that you're you're bottlenecked, um, but it might look that way because that's the lens through which you're seeing it. This is why the mindset is so powerful. This is why the way that we look at things makes such a big difference because it affects whether or not you're even willing to consider options.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I have uh something to say to exactly that. I heard someone in a video recently say your reality is as much as your nervous system will allow you to perceive. So I feel like that really goes along with what you were just saying. There are times where literally opportunities could be right in front of you. But if your nervous system is not regulated enough, or we have some trauma we need to work through, or maybe some habits we need to overcome or improve, it could be like blinders on, and you don't even see the things that are right there that could potentially get you out of that situation. So absolutely mindset, everything, it literally changes your perspective.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

And so what is what's the best mindset, or not the best, but like a more helpful frame? Like what are the reframes that you help your clients have so that they're not, you know, stymied by a sense of nihilism or from that kind of martyrdom of I'm how I'm happy to help everybody else, but I'm not quite ready to help myself. Like what are the reframes that you find to be most powerful for your people?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Absolutely, taking small steps. Really, there's, and I'm sure you could probably definitely speak to this a lot more, but there's a lot of neurochemistry and a lot of um building of confidence in just being able to check the box one time and then being able to do it again and do it again and do it again, right? And it's almost like a chip in the bucket of every time saying to myself that, you know what, when I actually commit, I can do this. No matter how small the step is, I can check this box and I can look back and say, I've made progress. I started here, now I'm here. Even if it's $20 in a savings account, right? Being able to just check that box, take that step forward, as well as definitely surrounding yourselves with the right people. That is so important. Who has your ear? And not even just the person, but even the media that we're taking in. I mean, we're living in an era that is consistently being marketed to you, thrown at you. I mean, between the news and the social media, right? It can feel like a lot. So making sure that you are not just um monitoring and auditing who is in your life, who is in your circle, the mentors, the people that you can look up to, even the people who are your peers, but are they working towards something, right? These are the types of things that you consistently need to audit. And is it overwhelming? Yes. But the alternative is a slippery slope that just puts leaves you in a place of consistently feeling hopeless about the financial future. And I think there's a delicate balance between living for today, enjoying life, feeling free, but also financially preparing for the future.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Absolutely. Because, you know, a lot of people, I'm sure, are in some sort of a scarcity mindset or like a feeling of lack or the fear. And saving because you're afraid of the future is very different from just preparing for what may or may not happen in the future. That and it's just a per the activity might be the same, but your your intention and your your perspective that drives the behavior makes a huge difference. Um, and to your point about the the consumption, right? The being bombarded with media or whether we're we're actively engaging with it or it's just something that we're surrounded with, you know, the people in your circle, all of that is really important to pay attention to. And I want to highlight that because just from a like a psychological standpoint, when we are in a state of like heightened fear and survival, because you know, and and we live in a world that that kind of does that to us, whether we want it to or not. And we have to be really vigilant about this. You know, you scroll on social media, the political stuff, we're not going to politics, but you know, there's all the political stuff going on, the economy, or just seeing the curated feeds of the people around you and comparing yourself, all of it causes these stress responses. And when we are in a state of survival, you know, where we feel like our identity is being threatened, or or the world's a dumpster fire and who knows if it's still gonna be here next year. Like all of that causes our brains to to shut down the executive reasoning portion, right? Like we don't make good decisions, we don't consider nuance. And what that tends to do is it creates a lot of black and white thinking. It's either this or that. And I know I've certainly done that. Like I've gotten into that when I'm when I'm freaked out and scared about something, I immediately go, well, it's all or nothing. Either, either I I I can just fully jump into this, you know, like like investing and taking care of myself and doing whatever, or I can't do any of it. And like you said, it's about taking small steps because if we're expecting the confidence to come, you know, before there's any um evidence, like that's just not how it works. Like we have to create the evidence, and the evidence is what builds the confidence. And most people have it backwards and they're waiting to feel confident or to feel inspired to take action. And when you do that, you just end up waiting forever. Yeah. Just like you said, it's about taking small actions, doing what you can, that it's not an all or nothing thing. It's about building systems or building processes and just kind of doing it, and you and you can expand as you go.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Absolutely. And I want to add to that because um I I think a survivalist mindset is another very common mindset or archetype, I guess we'll say, that I see, you know, when people are coming in the door and sitting down, feeling like I'm just a hamster on a wheel. I wake up to go to work, to come home, to go to sleep, to go to work, right? And it just feels like a never-ending cycle of just paying bills and surviving, right? So even getting to a place where we first acknowledge how we feel and then have things in our emotional toolbox that can make us feel better, right? So I am a big believer in yes, we need to have a budget, but also noticing when are the times that I feel financial stress, because that's what leads to the impulse spending or the I'm not tracking my finances, or I'm driving home and I had a stressful day at work. So I'm just gonna go to the takeout or the drive-thru because I don't feel like cooking, right? So taking note of these things is usually the first step and also sometimes usually the most uncomfortable step. Um, but necessary to do. And I want to add one other thing. One thing I have coached my clients to implement um is what I call a financial decision tree. So basically, let's say I need to purchase something or I have a financial decision to make, being in the survivalist mindset, feeling financial nihilism can definitely cause the freeze mindset, right? I I don't, I can't make a decision. I'm in analysis paralysis. I'm just surviving. So I'm just gonna keep going and keep working, right? So when you have a financial decision tree that says something along the lines of this, okay, maybe I want to make a big purchase of a vacation. Have I fully funded my emergency account? Have I contributed to my investments? Have I paid off my debt for the month? Right. Being able to look at this laid out, whether it's on paper or in notes on your phone, but being able to take time to literally sit down and check those boxes, those are the things that can help bring down our stress activators. And rather than me feeling like, oh, I'm gonna swipe this car, but I don't know if I'm spending this vacation money that's supposed to be rent money or a bill, or maybe I'm gonna have to juggle things. And some people just say, oh, well, I'm just gonna live because I deserve it, right? But if you have something that is laid out that says, okay, if I have at least put something in my emergency account, I've paid my investments, I've paid some debt down, right? Okay, now I can feel financially comfortable, confident to make this big purchase, make this vacation purchase, right? So these are the types of things that are small ads. Is it a little bit more thought time consuming? Yes, but the payoff is not having too stress later down the line.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah, for sure. Uh I'm I'm over here just kind of like chuckling to myself because we've gotten so as we as a society have gotten so used to instant gratification, easy buttons, shortcuts, hacks, tips, tricks, all that stuff. And we want it now. We're impatient and we want it now. And the fact is that a lot of the things in life that are worth having, that are worth building, you can't skip steps. You can streamline the process. That's why, you know, working with someone like you, streamline the process, right? Like they don't have to do all the trial and error and figure it out on their own. You know, or like when when I work with my clients, it's the same thing. Like I help streamline the uh the inner work, but I still can't do the work for them. It's like a personal trainer, right? Like you can't, they can't do the the the sit-ups and the pull-ups for you, but they can help you design a plan and they can help you uh like you know maintain good form. And again, it it smooths everything out, but you just can't skip steps. And the more you try, the longer it's gonna take you to get where you want to go. Absolutely. Yeah, and it's it's just you know, I hate to be all old school about it, but this the shit works. It's a reason, these are foundational principles. And there's there's just no skipping steps. Um so I wanna I wanna dive a little bit deeper into um the f the notion of like how, you know, a lot of folks, even when they're making really good money, folks who left a traditional nine to five, you know, and have built a business and they're doing really well, and yet, you know, they they have this nagging feeling of like they're just one bad month away from ruin. Again, it's an all or nothing kind of mentality, but it which tells you that it's based in in some kind of a fear. Um But do you see, do you see any of that with your clients? And if so, like what what do you find is is really underneath it when you dig down?

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Absolutely, absolutely. And um, one of my first like big clients that I started work with, she received an inheritance. And I think that is a great example of I used to be, you know, a regular non-fob worker, but maybe, you know, someone left me something, and now I have a huge, much huger net worth and all the feelings that come with that. So that was a very um interesting coaching experience for me because prior to I was helping a lot of people maybe get started for the first time, or maybe you're retiring and we're rolling money over, and that's great. But this was a very unique situation. And I think one of the first things, as we've been saying throughout this, is taking stock of your mindset, but really your beliefs. Like one of the things that we had to overcome was her feeling deserving of the money. Right. Like that's a very real thing that um can wreak havoc. And like one of those things that you have to peel back the layers a little bit, like on the surface surface, it might look like, oh, I'm just an impulse spender. And every time I'm in Marshalls, I just gotta shop. Right. Now I know because I'm a Marshalls girl. I love Marshall, but you know, that it might look like something else on the surface, which is why it's so important to take time and whether it's personal, journal, you know, shadow work, meditating, all the things, therapy, a coach like myself or like you, right? Being able to work through because it's not just dollars and cents, right? Like now we're seeing so much more in the account. It can cause the freeze response, it can cause the I this is the most out of the head. So now I'm gonna splurge and treat myself to all the things. And now we're kind of blowing through the money and we have no systems, right? So it can really elicit a wide range of responses. And it truly goes back to how you feel about yourself, maybe even your upbringing with money. That's also another thing to explore. How did I see my parents handle money? Right. Like if I came from a working class family that taught me all my life, I have to work hard and clock in and go to work. And then all of a sudden I wake up tomorrow and I have six figures in my account. That will cause internal dichotomy, right? And that is something that you have to, it can't be ignored because we see so many examples of, especially in the sports world, which I'm very connected to the sports world through my fiance who plays professional sports, but you see it all the time, not just baseball, all sports. Um, athletes making a large amount of money and unfortunately still having the poverty mindset. With a scarcity mindset, and then they retire and lose it all, right? Not even just uh athletes, celebrities, too, right? You see it all across the board. Lottery winners absolutely lottery winners. I would even dare to say uh people going social media viral overnight. A lot of that happens, right? So here is the solution that I typically recommend building out the safety nets. We need safety nets as much as possible. Imagine a trapeze artist up in the air, circus ole, walking on the tightrope, and it's only one net down there, and and it looks like it's the holes are kind of big, right? So if that person falls, they're probably up there scared, shaking, and the people in the crowd are probably also like, oh my gosh, what's gonna happen, right? But if we had that net and another net and a thicker net and a safety harness, right? Now we can feel a bit more secure to say, okay, you know what? I am gonna maybe pursue this new venture or, you know, go full-time as an entrepreneur. Why? Because I have a fully funded emergency fund, I have investments, personal investments, and business investments, I have savings accounts, I have a short-term savings, I have a long-term savings, right? And of course, these things take time to build. This is not something I would expect anybody to have overnight, but these are the things that especially when it comes to I've made a lot of money in one year or I'm making more than I ever have before, exploring your inner beliefs around money and building out those safety nets. Very important.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah. This reminds me of um something I read in The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks about the internal thermostat. I've heard other people talk about it too, but that's that's the book where I first heard it. So I'm just gonna give him credit for that. Okay, well, I'm gonna have to read it. I don't know if he came up with that or not, but it's fantastic. Um, but the the concept is that you know, we all have an internal thermostat when it comes to success or money or happiness, like all the various things that we experience. And it's just like that thermostat in your house. It's set to a particular temperature kind of by default, based on our upbringing, our childhood, various other experiences that we've had. Most of us don't really think about it. It's just set at whatever it's set at. And that's, you know, it's what defines our comfort zone. And whenever we go beyond it, it's just like when on a hot summer day, if the temperature rises too much in your room, then the air conditioner clicks on and it brings the temperature back down to whatever the setting is. And in in the case of us humans, that's usually an emotional thing, an emotional state. So someone is used to having just enough, or you're just paying your bills paycheck to paycheck, for example, and they're they're they're used to that feeling of just enoughness, right? And that's the state they're used to functioning in. Having an excess of money doesn't change that. And the excess spending can often be a an attempt to recreate that emotional feeling. Absolutely. You know, and you have like you have to deal with that in conjunction with putting in the safety nets. You need to feel safe in here. This is where the nervous system comes in, right? It's like you have to feel safe in internally, in addition to doing the things externally, because otherwise the internal state will force congruence. Absolutely and it'll it'll bring the ther the temperature back down to whatever it's set at.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yes, yes, that is so good. And actually, one thing my business coach says to um our team all the time is are you going to be the thermostat or the thermometer? A thermometer measures the temperature in the room, right? And if we were to apply that to our finances, the temperature in this country is hot. Okay, so it can have you feeling stressed, hot, feeling out of control. A thermometer does not is not able to control the room. So it can feel like I am out of control. I'm just making money, I'm just working, I'm just trying to get by. That would be a thermometer. But as you were saying, a thermostat, if you are in control of your finances, you have financial goals, you have financial infrastructure, you have taken time to sit down and say, okay, what is actually important to me? What do I actually spend money on? Right? Because then you are a thermostat. You are controlling your finances. You say, okay, you know what? I do like to eat out a little bit more. So I'm gonna make sure I designate this specific account that is for my eating out or for my treating myself fund. And I am contributing to that because that's what's important to me and a priority for my finances. That's a thermostat, right? They are controlling what is going on in the accounts, what is going on in the portfolio, in the room. So I love that comparison. I'm definitely going to read that book because that sounds definitely up my alley. But that's a question to ask yourself. Am I treating my spine as a thermometer or a thermostat?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

I love that. So I'm wondering how much of the the like resistance to really looking at one's finances comes from some sense of embarrassment or shame or guilt? Because, you know, I mean, if I'm just paying my bills every month and I know everything's covered, then do I really need to look at the details? You know, like that's that seems like a perfectly logical excuse for avoidance, avoiding the discomfort of whatever it might reveal. So, how much of that do you also encounter? And how much of that is like tied to some kind of shame or guilt or story around it?

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Mm, Jackie, that is an excellent question because I would dare to say a lot of it. And actually, a lot of my personal experience with overcoming my money trauma and habits that it's still it's a long journey, right? I would dare to say a lifelong journey. You should always be learning and growing, especially with the way our financial system is going. There's always gonna be something new, right? A few years ago, there wasn't even anything, such as an index fund, a Roth IRA, right? Even um as recently as I believe the 70s, women weren't allowed to have bank accounts, right? So there's always gonna be something new that we are learning that we have to implement and learn and grow. Um, but all that to say, I would say a huge part of it is the story that you're telling yourself. Avoidance is only going to make the situation worse and make it grow, right? Uh, not looking at it doesn't make it go away. Okay. I used to be the person who didn't want to open my mail, I didn't want to open my statements because if I didn't see it, it didn't exist, right? I was that girl. Like if I never saw the bill, you call me and say, excuse me, this bill is passed too. I say, what bill? Right? It doesn't exist. But know that that is only prolonging the journey, right? And I sit down with a lot of people who are, you know, 50s, 60s, sometimes 70s, and they're full of the shoulda, coulda, woulda's. Yes, shouldn't all over yourself. So instead of doing that, um, yes, it's painful. And that's another reason why it matters who is around you, right? You sometimes you need a coach. Sometimes you just need someone, a trusted person in your circle, maybe a business partner, maybe a friend, maybe a family member that you are setting up designated time to do what I like to call an admin hour, where I'm sitting down and looking at the things, particularly with finances, but it could be other stuff too, doctor's appointments and taxes and all these things that we often don't want to look at. But if you don't ever sit down and put it in your calendar or designate time to do it, it's just gonna continue to grow, right? It's it's like one of those uh monsters, the gremlins that if you feed it at night, it's just gonna go crazy, right? So rather than continuing to avoid it is difficult, make time, put it on the calendar. I'm very much a calendar girl. If it's not in my calendar, it doesn't exist. So even if it's a designated hour just for self, right? And sitting down at my computer, I'm gonna look at my statements, I'm gonna look at where did my money actually go? Where did I spend? Did I save? Right. And in the beginning, it's just taking stock, taking an audit, looking at it non-judgmental. That's another big key. You have to look at it as if you're looking at someone else's, right? Remove the emotions from it, which again is hard. So partner with somebody who is a professional.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yeah. And, you know, someone like you, uh, you don't have like an emotional stake in it. There's no, it's you're just a fresh set of eyes and a different perspective, and you know, with your expertise as well. But that that judgment in that story can be so powerful. And usually when we're in our own little world, our own little echo chamber, that that shitty little voice inside of our head that's like Judgy is is getting getting all up our butt about something that's it's already done. You can't unspend the money, right? You know, and no one's no one's gonna how to explain it. It's almost like dress sizes, right? Like, you know, we as women, you know, like uh maybe I'm embarrassed about the size of dress I wear. Ain't nobody looking at my tags. But me, I'm the only one who knows. And even then, it's just a number. And and this is almost the same thing. It's like no one else is looking at your bank statement except for whoever you choose to share it with. But at the end of the day, it's just where the money went. And the story is what we give it. Or we could just not give it a story. I mean, that's our choice.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

And yeah, and I think I think you're right. Like the people that that we have around us are a big component of that. Having a neutral third party who can help you make decisions and organize and like look at it through a more neutral lens or remind you to do it, like that is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Absolutely. And oftentimes I'll I say to my clients when we first start, you know, our consultative work, um, a lot of what I might say to you or coach you on might be things that you've heard of before, right? Like a lot of people have heard of a broth diary before. If you haven't, it's okay. But, you know, the I'm not introducing new things. Most of the time, I'm just creating a space, a safe space where we're not going to beat ourselves up, where we can look at these things unemotionally, make a plan. And even if it is a bit emotional and maybe we're really diving into the money trauma or, you know, my experience with money growing up. Okay, well, what lessons can we learn from that, right? Because there's always a silver lining somewhere, or there's always a lesson to be learned. Even if we're looking at it and saying, okay, this is what I certainly know I don't want to be like, right? Maybe we look at how our parents handle money or, you know, my neighborhood and my experience growing up. I know I certainly don't want to return here. Okay, well, let's also spend some time on what do we want it to look like, right? And asking those questions. So absolutely a lot of the time, yes, it's important to have a trusted opinion, but really it's just needed that unbiased, um, alternative perspective change.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

100%. You know, I'm seeing a lot of parallels here between like the work you're doing with your clients around finances and the work that I do with my clients around that gap between I know what I need to do, but I'm not doing it. But it's it's always, it's, it always comes down to the same fundamentals, right? It's like an awareness of both the reality of the current situation, again, from a neutral perspective, and a willingness to look at the blind spots. Because a lot of a lot of what we do as coaches, you know, you do this as well as a coach, I'm sure, is you mirror back to the client something that they're unable to see because of their particular perspective. And the minute someone can see from a different lens, you know, go, oh, I'd never thought about it that way, that's when the awareness is starting to shift in a way that's productive. And the awareness is always the first step. Like without that awareness, then the rest of it doesn't really work. Um it's just, it's just kind of forcing and willpower and grit. And that only takes you so far. It's not sustainable. So no, it's just so many parallels.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Yes. I'll give you the perfect example of that. So um, a few of my clients, I have been coaching them on uh creating, I, you know, budgeting is a very common term, but I really don't like the word budgeting because if we're talking a lot about, you know, thoughts and beliefs, I really believe that the word budgeting gives people a negative connotation and it it makes people feel like they're limiting themselves. And it's like, oh, I budgeted $200 to spend eating out this this month. So I can't exceed that. And I have to stay in this very tight box. And if I go out the box and I'm beating myself up, right? So one thing I really have been encouraging my clients to do is what I call money mapping and money tracking. So, what money tracking is, is basically like I was explaining earlier, whether it's your past month or three months, because sometimes we need to average it out, statements, your past baked statements, and looking at, okay, what did I actually spend money on? Sometimes we have very idealized versions of, oh, yes, I'm going to save this amount and I'm going to spend only this amount on food or only this on gas, right? But then when we actually look at the numbers, it's telling a very different story. But if we never take the time to look at the numbers, we live in this delusional fantasy land and it just causes us to beat ourselves up even more, right? When we don't fit into that box. Money mapping says, okay, now that I've realized what I'm spending and where it's going, is there a way I can map this money and reroute it to something that actually is important to me? So for example, actually, two of my clients I have in mind, we have sat down and went through their past three month statements for specifically food delivery and eating out. And that is typically people's largest spend categories outside of, like, you know, your housing, your car, maybe your insurance and things of that nature. But when it comes to the impulse spending, food is typically at the top for most people, right? So the thing about it that I really love, and I'm sure you could probably speak to this even more. When we just literally took the time to add it up and the type of coaching that I do, I literally had them pull up their statements, they're reading off the numbers, and I'm just adding it up in the calculator. Then we average it up all three months, and them looking at that number immediately, almost immediately, causes a reaction of, oh wow, I didn't know I was spending that much. Now that it is to my acknowledgement and realization, they even subconsciously, I had my most recent client, we were talking about this, I said, girl, you did it and you weren't even like really paying attention to it because you realize now that I'm spending this much, oh, food, okay, yes, I can, you know, maybe do a little bit better going to groceries and and maybe there are some cases where I just need to DoorDash and order out. But now that I am paying attention to this number, I'm more likely to spend it on something that maybe is more important to her. In that case, if for her, it was travel, right? So we were able to bring her spin category down about 200 bucks over a two, a three-month looking at the past statement. So even sometimes just acknowledging and taking time to look at it, again, taking away that avoidance factor can be the change that you need to realize, you know what, I would rather put this money towards something that is a priority for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Yeah, absolutely. I'm just thinking about convenient DoorDash in your breeds are.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Uh yeah. Let me tell you, convenience spending is one of the most uh leaders to the impulse spending. It's convenience, Amazon, DoorDash, all the things, right? It is psychological trips to make you spend more, typically.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Yeah. You know, like um these are such wonderful, like practical ways to go about it. And I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. And it reminded me of a time, this was years and years ago, when I was still working my nine to five and I was miserable and I was thinking about leaving. Part of my aha moment that, you know, led me to start looking at it uh a different direction in my career at the time, again, many years ago, was how much I was drinking to cope with how unhappy I was. And it wasn't like I'm sitting at home just like with a bottle of whiskey or anything like that. It was more like going out to the bar with my BFF after work and just bitching about work, like like a lot of people do. And there were two things that were part of my moment of going, I gotta do something gotta change. Like this is not okay. And one of them was when um one of the local bartenders, because it was a wine bar that we went to all the time. Yeah. Beautiful wine bar, you know, and and and we would go there multiple times a week and we would just sit and chat with Dustin and the staff there. One, yeah, regulars. And and that was part of it is one one year as we got closer to Halloween, the the bartender joked that we should dress up as Cliff and Norm from that TV show Cheers from the 80s. Yeah. And I was like, oh no. Yeah, like, wait, no one. Wait, and I'm like, which one am I? Like, but no other than that, I was like, oh shit, we were this kind of regulars, right? Like that was really concerning. And I started to pay more attention to my my credit card statements every month. I was like, I spent that much at that bar last month. Oh my God. Right. Like just looking at the number was was eye-opening. And um, those two things coupled together made me realize just how much I was pouring into coping with what was a really an unhealthy work situation and got me like off my ass to like do something about it. But yeah, looking at the numbers is really sobering. And sometimes, you know, it's just a matter of going, huh, I had no idea. And maybe the, you know, for for like the the eating out example, maybe the decision is cool. I really don't care to cook and don't want to do it. And I'm okay with budgeting more for for dining out or for for delivery because my priority is to is to you know spend my time on something other than cooking, for example. Like that's okay too, but making an informed decision. Yeah, that's the important thing. That it's not it's not default actions or automatic actions.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Right. Oh my gosh, you are speaking my language, Jackie. Absolutely. That's exactly what I tell my clients, right? We are looking at these numbers, not to beat ourselves up. And that is another big important part to the money mapping because yes, we can track it. But if I just leave you there and say, you spent $900 on food this month and just period, right? And then you're gonna sit there and say, well, what? Like this is terrible, right? And then it's just gonna lead to a beat up self-session and feeling like, you know, what what can I do? Right. So being able to first acknowledge, but then also say, you know what? Now that I recognize this, one of two reactions will happen. One, it says, okay, you know what? I see that I'm spending this amount. I'm not really cool with that. I think this money could be spent on something that I, you know, rather prioritize and actually something that's important, not something that's like fruit fruit, like, oh yes, I would like to, you know, whatever. I don't know. I can't even think of something right now, but something that is actually important. Like I like to travel, I like to eat out. Maybe I like makeup, maybe I like shopping for clothes. Maybe I I have a client who loves to go to Comic-Con conventions and like get the whole dress up thing right. So if that is actually important to you, that should be a category because one, from a psychological standpoint, having the savings account with that specific name, like the Comic-Con travel savings account, that is going to make you more likely to save rather than saving for a random, ambiguous at some point, I hope to retire, right? Being able to literally see the name on that account, me dropping, even if it's $20, $50, $100 into that account, whether it's every month, every quarter, however often you can, that is what is going to excite you to actually make change, right? If we just look at it and say, Oh, I suck. I eat out too much. This is terrible, right? That is not what's going to cause change. Being able to say, okay, yes, I am doing this right now, but what could this better be spent on? Or second option is says, you know what? Okay, I maybe I do spend, I'm not gonna go that hot, five, maybe 400 a month, right? On eating out, on the DoorDash, on the, you know, going to the bar. Okay, maybe I enjoy my freedom. I'm child free, or I'm, you know, I like my times out with my friends. Nothing wrong with that, but let's set a specific category and create boundaries. I'm a big person on boundaries and rules for your account, especially emergency savings. Because I I've been guilty of it in the target line. I need an extra $50. Oh, it's an emergency. That is an emergency. Okay, right. So actually having an account, having some boundaries, having some rules. These are the types of practical things that it's like, I'm not strong arming myself, I'm not forcing myself, I'm not boxing myself in or limiting myself. I'm actually prioritizing the things that are really important to me.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Yeah. And by making those decisions ahead of time, when you're not in a heightened emotional state and all freaked out, then you can make your decisions from a place of steadiness and reason and discernment. And, you know, you've you've pre-decided what's important and what you're gonna do. So that in those moments when you're all freaked out or whatever, you have the option to go, you know what, I've already decided I'm gonna do it this way. This is how I'm gonna do it. Or you, or you can still decide no. I mean, but you you set yourself up for success more if you've already got these, these, these things labeled and and categorized and you've made the decisions, you know, instead of doing it on the fly, which I think, you know, a lot of us are certainly guilty of and it gets us in trouble over time.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I'm a big believer in the set it and forget it method, right? If we can set up an auto draft, um, you know, it's easier to have the money auto draft go into this savings account and be able to transfer it back than saying, oh, I'm just gonna remember after I pay my bills, then I'm gonna put the remaining into savings because what's more likely to happen? It's not gonna reach the savings account, right? So if we set it and forget it, right? Send it as a small amount, a baby step, right? We're not asking you to put, you know, $500 in a Roth IRA every month. If you got it like that, yes, do it. You should, right? But even if it's $20, $25, $50, starting where we can. Start setting that auto draft, right? Because then, and here's another thing being able to take those financial stressors and concerns off of the back burner of your mind will free you up because you can go ahead and swipe the card and you're not worried about, oh my gosh, am I spending money that is actually supposed to be for over here, like my rent money or my bill money? No, because I auto-draft, put it into this savings account. Now I have my fund money over here. I'm only spending for fun out of this fun account. So I don't have to worry about, is it coming right? No, set it and forget it. Then because we all have a million other things to do throughout the day. And as we talked about earlier, just media and messages and marketing hitting us from all directions at all times. If you have kids, if you have a spouse, if you have just responsibilities, right? We all have things to do. So the more things that we can have running in the background so we don't have to worry about it, taking away that financial stress is one of the hugest things.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yeah. Make it make it as automated as possible. Because the more manual it is, the more you have to, you have to get yourself involved. And everything that every time we put our hands on something, we're giving ourselves an opportunity to mess it up.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

So self-negotiate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah. And that that gets us into so much trouble. Wow. Okay. I want to switch gears just just to hair. Um because one thing I know or I've noticed is that folks who are like successful and highly accomplished can often be a little like they lean real heavily into being independent. You know, I can do it, I can do it all. I'm the I'm the fixer. I can get shit done, you know, that kind of thing, right? Um and I'm really curious, like, what what are your thoughts on this notion? I don't want to, I don't want to talk like it's not necessarily a hustle culture thing, but there is a lot of hustle culture. No, you can say that because I yeah. Not everybody who's successful is hustling. Like they just maybe have open systems as well, because right a lot of it's just the internal wiring. Um but like what like what are what's your take on the notion of the hyper-independent mentality of I don't really need other people in order to like make more money or be more successful. This isn't necessarily about like independent wealth, but getting support, not just not just from someone like you or me, like a coach to help help us work on our individual stuff, but like more collaborative things. Because I, you know, a lot of the folks that I talk to are either solopreneurs or the business of not necessarily a business of one, but just the business of a few. And that can feel really isolating. You know, and there's a lot to be said for for growing uh collectively, because as we have mentioned, we have we have both talked about multiple times throughout this conversation, the people around us have such a dramatic and direct effect on our level of success and and you know, in all the different categories. Absolutely. So, so yeah, like what's what's your take on that, on the notion of like, I'm gonna do it myself versus like I'm gonna find, you know, I want to build a tribe or a team of people who work not for me, but with me collaboratively or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Yes. Thank you so much for this question because this is so prevalent and I see it a lot. I also work with a lot of entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, or people who are doing the nine to five, but uh have their own business and they're wanting to transition. And I think this is one of the things that uh can help people scale faster. Um, it's insane how much we are conditioned from a very young age to be hyper-independent. And I would say that, you know, in the beginning years of your education, there is a lot of sharing, a lot of play, right? You think of pre, you think of preschool, and you think, you know, they're teaching you to share and you're playing with other kids and all these other things. But then as you go further into your education, right, you are just conditioned, you know, there are so many studies and people who talk about how school is just conditioning children to be good employees, right? And to um be just individual, think about yourself, think about your own scores, right? And all these things. And then we graduate into the working force. And I already kind of talked about how Gen Z is really getting the short end of the stick right now, but I would dare to say millennials as well, graduating into an economy that is kind of throwing you into the fire and, you know, sink or swim, find a job, you know, and then we have the whole American dream that is really truly a debt trap, right? Because it's get a house, have a baby, get a car, get married. All these things are, you know, sometimes four and five figures of debt, right? So all that to say, and and also I want to say that they expect you to take it all on personally, and then uh that is the representation of you made it, of wealth, right? Of a bunch of debt, truly, right? So hyperindependence causes you to suffer alone and continually dive like swan diving into the depths of trying to keep up with the Joneses or, you know, make yourself appear as maybe something you're not, right? And I'm not gonna say all solopreneurs do this or all hyper-independent people do this, but truly, if we sit back and look at the type of conditioning and um programming, brainwashing that we have been exposed to just as an American culture or education system, it's from so many different areas. So, first I want to acknowledge that if you are in that state of mind, it is going to take time and thoughts and intentionality to overcome. Okay. It's not, I don't want to say this to shame anyone or say this that, oh, you are only worried about yourself and that's wrong, right? We've been conditioned to do this for a very long time. So it takes a while to get to a point of even wanting to trust people, wanting to work with people, right? We we've been told, I mean, how many times have people heard don't work with family or you know, you can't always trust your friends, don't loan your friends money, right? Like all kinds of things that might seem small, but you don't realize how that has planted a seed in your mind and cause you to really put the blinders on to people around you that can help you, right? And even when we talk about mentorship, sometimes mentorship causes you to look up, right? And look at who is where I want to be and I want to be able to connect and learn from that person. And yes, that is important. As we talked about earlier, having someone with a qualified opinion, a coach or whatever. But it's also very underrated and super important to look lateral. Look at your peers, look at the people around you, right? Um, who are the people in your industry? Or maybe it's not your specific industry, but maybe it's a complimentary, complementary industry, such as a tax attorney and a legal person, or a bookkeeper and an accountant, right? Like things that can go together because for a few reasons. One, it can turn into a great referral partner, especially when we're talking about complimentary services, things that, you know, if I'm working with a client in financial services, one of the things that they probably most likely need is maybe some marketing help or a website, or even someone like yourself was going to help them elevate their mindset, right? So if I am working with someone that could be a great client for someone else that I know, that can be business for both of us, right? An ongoing cooperative referral ecosystem. But even if it wasn't a referral type of partnership, having someone who is in your industry or someone, maybe you're at the beginning of your education, maybe going back to school and having another person who's on the same degree path as you. It just matters because we talked earlier about changing your perspective, right? Talking to others can help change your perspective, improve your perspective, change your outlook on a situation. And just having somebody who's going through the same thing you're going through sometimes definitely helps because it's like, I'm not crazy, right? Right? Like, I'm not the only one dealing with this, right? Right. Okay, it's not just me. That is so neat, especially in the crazy times that we're in today, that can make you feel a bit like, am I going crazy? Am I no, you're not crazy. Other people are suffering with this too. Other people are, you know, sometimes financially drowning in debt like you are. Sometimes people need to improve their credit score, get some things removed off their credit report like you. And if you think that it's only a me problem, or I'm just bad with money, I just suck because I did this, that, and the third, or again, back to that story you're telling yourself, you will suffer in silence. There are so many people who look good and polished and wonderful on the outside that are suffering in silence. So it is so important and necessary to look to your left and your right, to your peers, other people in your industry, go to networking events. Put yourself out there because you can work with other people and probably scale way faster, even if it's just learning from that person.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Absolutely. You know, you and I met at an event at the coworking space that I go to. And one of the reasons I joined there was because, you know, I'm in my home office right now to record. Um, but it's, you know, it's just me. I'm a company of one. And as much as I like that, um, I still like to be around other people occasionally. And, you know, one of the motto of the uh the guy who founded the the coworking space that I work at um is, you know, you you might be I'm gonna butcher it now. Now that I said that, I'm gonna butcher it. Um but it's something to the effect of, you know, you might be working by yourself, but you don't have to do it all alone.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

You know? And I I think coach says you can work for yourself, but not by yourself. Yes. That's another way to say it. Yes. But you know, that's that's exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

There's something to be said for being in a room with other people who are also just building something, even if it's entirely different from what you're building. Because they're on a journey that is similar enough to yours that they understand the frustrations and they can celebrate the wins. They get why the wins matter in a way that your offline bestie who works a typical nine to five doesn't understand. You know, they don't understand why it's a big deal that three new people signed up for your email list. But you had some registrants, you know, actually come to your webinar. Yeah. Right? Like those are the things that, you know, you or I get it, but someone who's not in this world doesn't. And there's there's a lot of power there, in addition to, like you said, the benefits of you don't know what kind of partnerships might happen, what kind of referrals might happen, um, or even just brainstorming, just going, you know what, I'm struggling with this thing. Anybody got any ideas? And you hear the stories of, oh, well, I I had this experience and this is what I tried, and this is how it worked for me. Not that they're an expert necessarily in teaching this stuff, but just like, this is my lived experience. I tried this, it worked for me, or it didn't, or like maybe maybe this isn't gonna, you know, just a cautionary tale. I tried this and it was a disaster. Or learn from other people who have gone um down their path and and what they've experienced. Yeah. Um, because yeah, like trying to do it alone, it's it's a fool's errand, even if you're a company of wine.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, they have come out with whole, you know, like bootstrapping, right? The the hustle culture. And, you know, I'm someone that I think it is great to have more than one stream of income and to work really hard and build something great, but burnout is a very real thing. And uh if you don't take time for yourself, surround yourself with people that will remind you of who you are, right? Even when we're, you know, maybe facing a lot of no's or the deals are not coming through, or, you know, I thought I was going to go full-time with my business by now and it's not there yet, right? Having the people around you that can remind you, no, you're still doing great, you're still good. Like you said, celebrate the wins with you, um, help pick you up when you are feeling down. So, so important. Um, something that I have gotten a lot of joy out of and that I've been doing a lot more this year is co-working meetings with um, you know, people that I just know, right? Like business associates. And as you said, sometimes we are not even in the same industry. And, you know, like that's also how I found um your co-working space at Alchemy that we, you know, met at. So being able to just surround yourself with other business professionals, um, doing things like pitch practice or, you know, overcoming objections. Like these are small things, but like across the board, any business that you go to, you're gonna have to speak, you know, about yourself, speak about your business, practice a pitch. You there's gonna be times where you're gonna get an objection that you might be like, how do I handle this? Or you sit down with your business friend and they're like, oh, I'm using this new software, this new platform, and it's really helping me scale, it's really helping me improve. And you're like, oh, what is that? Like, tell me a little bit more about that, right? These are the little keys that if you're just trying to do it all your own or watch a whole bunch of YouTubes or you and Chad GPT, right? Now, don't get me wrong, me and Chad, we're here, right? But if it's just you and Chad, first of all, we all know that uh AI will just affirm whatever you believe, right? So it's like screaming into an echo chamber anyway. It's gonna always tell you you're right. So you need real people that will sometimes tell you, like, maybe you want to switch it to this, or let me help you improve this, right? So it's just so important. Like, I am very excited about in the near future, um, coaching more people about cooperative economics and collaborative work and helping business owners, like I said earlier, maybe like businesses, or maybe I had three or four besties and we're all kind of starting our business. And how can we work together to, you know, maybe it doesn't look like a financial partnership where we're referring people, but how can we maybe get together for a co-working day or an admin day, or I'm here to celebrate your business launch, or I'm coming to your business location, I'm telling people where you work, right? Like these are the types of things that are so underrated, but so important.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

Yeah, absolutely. Um I love, I love the the concept that you were talking about about the collaborative, you know, um collaborative economics. Um did I get that right? Yeah, cooperative economics. Yeah, it's similar. Yeah, English is hard some days. Anyway, um no, I love that concept because we don't we typically will think of the things that we're familiar with when we're when we're thinking about ideas, right? And so when when I think about before I met you, when I would think about um you know, ways to to to join forces with other folks, with other business owners, um it was typically things like, oh, a joint venture, cross-promotional something something, or affiliate work, or things like that, like things that I'm just familiar with and have heard about. And the the work that you want to do is is different in in a way that I think is just really fascinating. And it's it's just so exciting because one of the things that I think is really powerful about what you want to do is that it's about that connection between the people. And it's not just about, oh, let's promote each other to our respective email lists so that we can make more money from this launch. It's no, it's like how can we foster relationships that are meaningful, both human to human, but also just from a strategic standpoint when it comes to our businesses and learn from each other and grow together in a way that is is thoughtful and human. Absolutely. I just think that's just such a beautiful facet of what it is that you're working on. And um, yeah, is there anything else that you want to share about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Um yeah, thank you for saying that first. Um, I do feel that it is a very unique niche when it comes to financial coaching, financial advising. As I mentioned earlier, the average, first of all, the average financial advisor is a middle-aged white man, which, you know, there's a small section of people that can relate to that, right? So we need more people in the financial arena um or in any industry. I want to throw this out there. It is not the question you asked, but the concept of oversaturation is a limiting belief. And anybody who is listening to this who believes, oh, I can't start this business, I can't go into this industry because there's already a whole bunch of professionals doing that. Release that thought from your brain. Okay, we need more people from all different walks of life, all different types of backgrounds coming in because you never know that one client that they have heard the same thing a million times, but they heard you say it. They heard your experience, they were able to relate to your background and it finally clicked for them and the light bulb went off, right? So for me as a money coach, I was very um interested in finding something that, first of all, aligned with me from a heart standpoint, from a psychological standpoint. I've been a money coach for about eight years now, and I really love what I do. But as we're all feeling right now, our economy is changing a lot. So, in a not great way for most Americans, I would dare to say. Um, so the traditional advice of like go to school, get a good job, contribute to your 401k, or get a pension and you'll be fine, that doesn't really apply anymore, right? So um, coming from a space of we know that there are certain parts of this system that's broken. How can we create something that better serves us, better serves our community, and actually can be financially profitable for us, right? We are, I'm sure everybody listening to this knows somebody who works in or has a nonprofit, and they are notorious for not making a lot of money, unfortunately, right? So we have seen, you know, spaces where it's like all the way capitalist, and we've seen spaces where it's all the way on the other side of completely nonprofit and for the people, but we're not making a lot of money. And I believe there is a beautiful tie between the two where we can work with other people in a collaborative way who I really want to coach is three to five business owners. So not a large group, because we all know sometimes we get different personalities and different egos and in the group. And it's hard to work with a large group of people, but three to five trusted, like-minded individuals who maybe have their own respective businesses, but have complementary businesses or just business savvy that can work together. And I want to be able to coach those groups of people to financially work together. So there are certain ways that groups can invest together, such as um a business enterprise like a cooperative, or even a limited partnership, or even group investing accounts. There are certain spaces that a lot of people don't know about, right? So I want to educate people, but also give them the system and the infrastructure so that you can build this and serve the community. That is the biggest thing for me. I think we have enough businesses out here that are just for the sake of making money, serving the shareholders, right, serving corporate interests. We need more businesses that, yes, make money, but also really genuinely want to improve and work in the communities that they are placed in. So that is something I'm very excited about doing. Um, and teaching also about financial sovereignty, because realistically, a lot of people feel financially stressed because someone else is controlling how their money is working, whether it's their job, whether it's the government, right? So true financial sovereignty means that I own the system. Nobody can come in and take it away from me, nobody can put their thumb on me, nobody can say you are worth this an hour or this a year. You determine your worth. You determine how much you want to get paid and how you work in the community. So that is really what I want to coach people on how to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Yes, yes, absolutely. Oh my goodness. Well, I know we could go on and on and on. Uh thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here today. This has been a wonderful conversation. What's the best place for people to connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

Absolutely. So I am in the process of a brand relaunch, but my brand where I will be coaching people on cooperative economics and financial sovereignty will be called at the RV MoneyCoach. And the is spelled with two E's, almost like Megan the Stallion. But the RVRV Money Coach. And um, I also am in the process of revamping my website, which will also be the RV Money Coach. Um, so just stay tuned there on my Instagram, my TikTok, Facebook, all of them, LinkedIn, VRV Money Coach.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

Okay, we'll be sure to have the the links um in the show notes so it's so it's easy to find. Uh yeah, and Jasmine, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

This has been amazing. Thank you, Jackie. You are wonderful. I'm very excited to see you continue to flourish and help entrepreneurs with their mindset because as we have been talking about this whole session, we can have the best financial plans and strategies in the world, but truly, it is your mindset that makes the difference. Mindsets is what manifests millions. And I'm very excited to see you do this work and just continue to blossom. And we're both going to be out here serving and helping people.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you.