The Full Story Podcast
Shares real stories of faith, struggle and redemption that reveal God’s story through His children.
The Full Story Podcast
The Tandem pt.2
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Hey friends, welcome back to Part 2 of Episode 5! In this episode, we talk about what it’s been like leading alongside one another, as well as leading our friends and others our age. We hope you enjoy Part 2 of The Tandem!
1 Corinthians 12:12-27
John 15:12-17
Hey everybody, my name is Alex. And I'm Jagger. And you're listening to the Full Story Podcast. Here we share stories of faith, struggle, and redemption that reveal God's story through us.
SPEAKER_03And as you listen to these episodes, we hope they bless you in the time to pause and reflect with the Lord. If you haven't already, please follow us at the Full Story Pod on Instagram to stay up to date on what's new. Also, feel free to subscribe to whatever platform you listen to us on to get notified when we post an episode. We hope you enjoy, and this is the Full Story Podcast. Peace. Welcome back to the Full Story Podcast. I hope you guys enjoyed part one of us talking with our friends Kate and Sarah. This is the continuation where we will unpack more of that conversation. So welcome to part two. So let's get it started.
SPEAKER_00Hi, let's get it started.
SPEAKER_03We're losing our minds. We've been recording for too long. So to start this question, um because a part of our heart for this episode was to talk about how we've navigated working together. Um because of the organization we work with, we've also been in positions to lead our friends. And so the question we want to tackle is what has it been like to lead alongside each other? And then what has it been like to lead alongside friends? Or to lead your friends.
SPEAKER_05I know that it started for the four of us in Orlando, going to Yeah, that trip, and then uh Actually, it was before that, right? Because we were kind of doing the pre-work stuff. Yeah, we were doing like pre-work for this trip.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah. And we were already leading better together.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_02No. What?
SPEAKER_05Not the four of us. We were leading alongside Carmen.
SPEAKER_03We were leading worship together. Oh yeah. Oh. Um, so we were connecting. Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01You were being used for like prayer and stuff like that. Yeah, but we were. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05A lot of it. Gotcha. Yeah. Um. So yeah, we started towards like towards the trip like in Orlando. What was that? 2024? Two years? Wow. Um we started doing pre-work together. And then at Orlando, I think we learned a lot of. I think yeah, just I think it was innovation, right? Obviously, like that was it. It was called an innovation lab. And so I think what it just like opened our mind up to just think broader, to think bigger, to think ideas, like big, innovate, you know? And so I think that was where it really started for us to um, I think honestly, this is mine, but you could just jump in, like to be able to see what each one of us brought. Because after each like meeting, we like we're like debriefing, and we're just like, man, I was like this. I felt like this, this was hard, all these things. So it started to develop this like, oh, this is how this person leads, this is how they get when you know this happens. Because I know moments like Sarah, like he would shut down, and then in our debrief, you know, she told us, like, oh, this what this is what happened, and this is what led me to being there. And so, yeah, the innovation lab taught us how to essentially lead amongst each other or like with each other, and then coming back, and we started leading better together, which was a worship night that we had through Youth for Christ for our young adults. Um, again, like we said, R.I.P. But that's where we started putting in and implementing all those like things of working alongside each other. And uh it was, I think there was tough at times because even leading amongst each other, we were all I know Jagger, and you could you know speak into this as well, feeling like, oh no, well, we're all doing this together, but it's like, well, no, like you were given responsibility, but we're right there with you, you know. And but we when leading together, somebody still needs to be spearheading what y'all are doing with the same understanding. All four of us had the same heart for what we were doing. But and so we were all, you know, honest conversations, being real, being just like, hey, this is what I see, this is what I you know we can do. And so we were always speaking into what Jagger was bringing to us. Um but yeah, I I know that we ran into some it was just kind of like difficult, you know. And then and then also being able to trust each other in the roles that we were given throughout that night and and leading and speaking, and it was a whole thing, you know. And so I think I thought it was a great experience. I thought it was um yeah, just really cool to to learn how others lead, and then to honestly, like I think it was like having to meet people where they're at.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh especially when you're coming in from a long day. This was something extra that we were doing on top of you know the work that we already had. And so uh it was like a lot, you know. It was a lot, and there was a lot of things in there, so I don't know whoever wants to jump in there, but you know, kind of what was your experience like and how'd it kind of go?
SPEAKER_01Um I don't I don't even know where to start. I feel like going to the innovation lab and going to Florida with y'all was it was so much fun. It was it was a lot of fun. It was really hard at certain moments, though, especially when we were like Especially when they kept feeding us, bro.
SPEAKER_05It was so much.
SPEAKER_02The breaks were so incredible. The what? The breaks that they would give us psychologically thought-through.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um yeah, I think like whenever we were like actually doing innovation lab work, it was I think all of us had like our had like a flourishing day or like a flourishing moment and like a really degrading moment.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that was tough.
SPEAKER_01Because I know I for sure did.
SPEAKER_05There's some high-level leaders out there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like Jake Land. Shout out Jake Bland if you ever listened to the show.
SPEAKER_05I just text him, I'll send it over to him. I don't want with him.
SPEAKER_01Um I think that it was hard for me because I uh that was the year that I was uh I started residency at City Life and um Houston, the director, we get we work so well together. Like he's super type A, I'm super type A. Um, and we were just like on the same page when it came to leading. And I was stepping out of like a I was stepping out of kind of a rough season of serving. And um I had just been like I had been like dealing with this uh this thing of like feeling just needed needed at a s at a at a site to serve and not wanted. Um and so when I stepped into City Life, it was amazing because it just felt so different, and um again, like we were leading so well together. And so then this is like the first time I felt like we had like all collabed basically. We had done better together together, but it was it was like kind of in like little silos. Like Carmen would say, like Carmen would like bring us together, and I think that that was kind of like important for us later on. Um but it was it was hard because I I wasn't like I wasn't um going back to like friendship, like I wasn't like I wasn't aware of like that we were friends, but also like leading, like leading an innovation lab together. So I was trying to figure out like how I was just trying to figure out like how to balance like leadership and and friendship and without even knowing, like I without even knowing that that's what we were doing. Um but yeah, I think it was really hard at first, but then later on when we got back from Florida, um it felt so nice to like enter in a room or like an enter into a meeting where we were planning better together, and it felt so nice to sit around like a group that understood how I work and how I think and how I operate and how I communicate. Um, because we had spent what like three or four days together, so obviously that's kind of impossible for every other front group to or every other like friendship or leader group to um spend four days in Florida together. But what I'm trying to say is like it took intentional time. I mean it's possible, but whatever. It took intentional time and like intentional and intentional space and effort coming from all of us to like really understand each other as leaders and as friends. So yeah.
SPEAKER_05I was I was reminded of when we had to present like our project, and we each had something like we each needed to share. Oh man. I feel like that really helped like even translate over to because that's what literally what we did at Better Together. Okay, you're doing this, you're doing this, you're doing this, this is your role, this is your world, yeah. And and then it just kind of like everybody's taking a part in this, but we're doing this as a team, yeah, working together. It's gonna be hard, it's gonna be difficult. You gotta trust the person that is in that position, and then extend a lot of grace if it just doesn't happen. A lot of grace.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a lot of grace and hold that standard of respect that even if they do mess up, like they just mess up, and you gotta move on from that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I feel like I think everybody together felt like we were just growing. It just we did this really good, but this. Yeah, and then this was really good, but this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05This was really good, but this, you know, and I was just like, oh man, like we're gonna get it right. Oh, you're not. Gotta grow. You know, we just kept growing, so then it ended.
SPEAKER_04Huh?
SPEAKER_02And then it ended.
SPEAKER_00I thought you said that committed and ended. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02But to add to um, I think the beginning stages of us all like coming together, there's like the friendship aspect and like the leading like together aspect, but also where I like found myself personally in my own leadership, and how like the process that I was going through, like in my own leadership, how much I saw it bleed into working with others. And I think when we started like coming together, and I knew that we were gonna go to Florida, and I knew that we were like gaining like empathy together, and yeah, like that whole process. I found myself like super insecure. Um, I didn't know that Kate like had something unique to bring to the table. I didn't know that there was something like vital and like unique within me that made a team like be better or like be great. So I didn't know that like I didn't know the value that I had in the kingdom basically. And as we're like coming together, I'm also like, well, I know Sarah in the past doesn't like me, but we're about to spend like four days together in one room, so I'm just gonna be like chill.
SPEAKER_01Mind you, Carmen was not gonna be in the room. No, like just us two queen beds, like literally, and I was like having to hash things out, dude.
SPEAKER_02I was like, like I was so excited for it to be the a three of us thing, yeah, but it became a two of us thing, and I was just like, what a queen kid that like it just gets turned on us, like kind of lesson. Yeah, literally. Because I was I a part of me like knew that I had to like mentally prepare or whatever. And and then I was just like, no, but like Sarah literally like Sarah literally like made my 20-year-old birthday party like come to life. So I was like, we're chilling, right? But whenever I was around Sarah, I was like, she's not she's not acting like she's not chilling. We're good. And I was just like, oh, this tension's weird. Yeah. And I was just like, and I didn't know how to dress it because I didn't know Sarah. But and I think I can say this now.
SPEAKER_05That's weird. You didn't know her, but she threw your party.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it yeah, I I think it came from you can correct me if I'm wrong, but well, no, actually say why you did that. No, I want to know why you think in my head, I like saw you feel for me and like you empathize with the fact that like I wasn't gonna have anything. And I think a part of you was like, oh, a friendship could happen, but then in my mind I was like, is she doing it out of like people pleasing? So I I thought like a part of it was like yeah, people pleasing.
SPEAKER_01I don't think any part of it was people pleasing. I think I did like I did really feel for you because you were like, I don't know if I'm gonna have anything, and I was like, oh, but like Kate deserves everything. But I didn't know how to like at the time I didn't know how to communicate that. Like I didn't know how to say, like, oh my god, you deserve the entire world. So part like the reason why I did it was because I was like, I knew she deserved something, but also I was like getting like hints from the Lord, like, okay, this could be like a really good thing. But I was just kind of like testing the waters, like very much testing the waters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But in my head, I'm like, a party means like we're locked in, yeah. But then her behavior wasn't telling me that, so I was like, okay, God, I was up with it, like what's going on? And um, and so yeah, I was just like, okay, well, I can't get myself out of this, so might as well go in it. And it did feel like it did feel like she had me at arm's distance like the whole trip, but I couldn't let that I couldn't let that like affect the way that I was taking in this like brand new experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for real.
SPEAKER_02Dude, like this was a huge thing, like none of us had ever done this. So I was like, no, like this is huge, like I can't let this like component get in the way of what God is trying to do here. Cause first glimpse into the lab, I was like, oh, this this matters, like this matters, and this is greater than I am. And so um, in all of that, I had not seen the way that y'all functioned. Like, like, but I had never seen the way that y'all functioned in a team, and I didn't know, like, I didn't know what y'all brought into a team either. So I started seeing it, and I was like, what's up with Sarah? Like, why is she shutting down?
SPEAKER_01Like, is she good? Okay, guys, we talked about this team okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, why'd you shut down? And then I saw like Alex like disassociating at one point, and I was like, is he like does he like doubt in himself that much? And then I like saw Jagger, and Jagger was like just bouncing off of like Carmen, and I was like there, like She was there for the vibes for real. And I was there and I was just like, well, I think.
SPEAKER_01Sarah and I are out just out like literally, and I've seen bringing us back together.
SPEAKER_04No, no, she's trying to wrap her mind about everything she just you know, you know, all the scenarios.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I'm like analyzing like every single one of you, and I'm like, what the heck didn't we sign up for? All I remember Carmen telling us is to go in humble. And I remember I think like all of us, like we went in a little proudful, you know, and we were humbled. Like the humility came in. And I remember also like seeing like Carmen and the way that she like worked, because I was only used to seeing Carmen like talk with me, minister to me. But then I saw this like beast basically, and and I was intimidated. I was like, Yeah, this this girl knows how to get things done, and like she don't let nobody get in her way, and she just like I just saw like she like bulls through things, and I was just like, like that like like a buffalo, like literally, like oh Garmin's a buffalo, like she like buffaloes through things. Have y'all ever heard of buffalo culture?
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm. Fire, yeah. I'm talking about what's his name?
SPEAKER_02Gilbert, his cup. Oh, no, but his cup says buffalo culture, anyways. Buffaloes go towards the storm. Oh, I'll see. No, cows like run away from the storm.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I just saw that like in Carmen, and so I was just like, dang, I really didn't know these people. Like, I didn't know like how they function. And um, anyways, fast forward, like, we end up like doing it together, and then Better Together comes into play. And I'm seeing tension that like is going on between you and or Alex and Jagger together, and then I'm seeing like how Sarah is also still like shutting down, by the way.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, and I'm seeing it.
SPEAKER_04Sarah's about to start shutting down, bro.
SPEAKER_01And I'm seeing this podcast is Sarah's shut down.
SPEAKER_02Sarah shuts down. And then I'm just seeing like, dude, I start I start seeing how leading together is going to make people's brokenness known. And it's going to push us to love one another before we tried leading others to Jesus. And I was like, dude, like it started just expanding my mind into like the kingdom like perspective. It's like, we gotta deal with us first, which is why I was so adamant about praying. Like at the time, I was just like, in my prayer life, like, this is the only way we can do it. And then seeing Jagger get frustrated by prayer, I was like, what's wrong with him? Like, just genuinely getting to know like my friend's struggles. Um, by this point, I'm thinking like we're all locked in, by the way. I'm like, we're a family. Like, when are we gonna hang out outside?
SPEAKER_03Like, I'm so like I'm done doing this better together thing, like let's hang out.
SPEAKER_02Let's go outside. Um, and so yeah, I'm just like, I just find myself being like all about just like letting Holy Spirit move and like being like uh like in our prayer, and I'm just like I'm just like in that so heavily. But around y'all, and I don't think I ever got to voice this, but I start feeling like over-spiritual, and I start feeling like I'm too much, like I'm too much, like maybe I gotta like pipe down a little bit, and so I'm like, oh, like there's not just like a spiritual component to things, to like leading a worship night, and I start seeing how it's like, oh no, there's like an organization aspect, there's a structure aspect, there's like a planning aspect, and that's where I get to know how much I've been like a spontaneity person, and how like Sarah and Jagger are so like they like to bring structure and they like to bring like order, and how much I don't like that, and I'm just like I don't like the structure, like like I don't like planning to like meet, and I just started recognizing like my frustrations within like working with somebody opposite of me, but in that like I also start to see like how important it is for organization to like be part of something. Um and I was trying to look for the scripture right now, but in that season that we were like on working together, I really got to see how like uh every part of the body is vital, and I had never seen it so clearly.
SPEAKER_05There's a couple things that you said in there that I wanna kind of mention. I think I think for one, if if you're gonna be leading in a team amongst yeah, just like alongside people. Um was the thought. Yeah, uh people are obviously gonna bring, like you said, like their brokenness to it. It's I think uh I forgot. I had my thought. It's but it's being able to navigate where people are at when they come into that space, and knowing like that might come. That wasn't like my full thought, but it was something along that because yeah, like you know, things just come, but it's like we're still leading together, and you know, we we have to accomplish this. Uh and I I think the other thing too, and and this was like even when we just got here and we were just like talking, Kate. And um, I had told you that I had gone to John 15, and then just reading, like, apart from me, you can do nothing. And so I say that because when you brought up like the spiritual like component, it's it starts there, but then there's the other things that we still need to accomplish, right? So spiritually, that is going to be our foundation, but it can't be like it can't be all of it, yeah. Because it's like, okay, we can pray for the next three hours, or we can set aside 20, 30 minutes to pray and then go and actually execute everything that the Lord has set for us, you know? Because then if we're just like, all right, like let's just go, we pray, we're prayed up, it's like, but nothing else is done. Is just like what the heck? But then it's like everything else is done. Guys, we didn't even pray and the night started. Now, like spiritually, it's just like feels chaotic. So uh I I think you're right in, but I think again, with the scripture, it's Spiritually, our foundation is sound with prayer, with the word, with following Jesus and again pointing one another back to Jesus and where we're at, but then also knowing that what at like we're about to go and do something. So enough of like, and it it sounds crazy to say, right? But it's like enough with the prayer, we actually gotta go do what we're praying about, you know? Because you could just pray all day and then never do anything about it. And so again, but I like I said, I think the foundation, like what you said, it's not that it has to be this like over-spiritual thing because from there everything becomes spiritual, but we have to address like our foundation spiritually to go and accomplish things like that.
SPEAKER_01So those are just a couple couple thoughts that I thought when you as you were speaking, but I think the verse that she was looking for, and it's funny because I had had it open to Ephesians uh four already because I was gonna like I was like gonna share something, but it's Ephesians four fifteen and sixteen. But practicing, can I read it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, read it. No, it's okay, Jack, go for it.
SPEAKER_01But practicing the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ who is the head. From him the whole body grows, fitted and held together through every supporting ligament. As each one does its part, the body builds itself up in love. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that is one of it, but I was I was thinking of another one, but that one's I think you are thinking of another one, but the legs and the ears. Yeah. Yeah, you can't function without the hand. The hand can't function without the pinky. Yeah. The pinky's not in the screen. I'm paraphrasing guys. Go look for the scripture and let me know.
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah, email her. Their contact with me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's really gonna bother me now.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, is it in Corinthians?
SPEAKER_02I think it is in Corinthians.
SPEAKER_05Um anyways, while they're looking that up. Jagger, what was it like for you working alongside the Better Together crew? We actually we gotta answer how we got to the tandem. Oh, yeah. Because that's our that's our that's our 99. That's our name.
SPEAKER_01It was through a prayer, actually. It was literally through a yeah.
SPEAKER_03It really was through a prayer.
SPEAKER_05We're never either.
SPEAKER_03It really was through prayer. I want to hear from Jagger Prayers. There's so much. There's actually way too much.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot.
SPEAKER_03There was a lot. Um, but this was the first ministry that I was ever interested to spearhead. Um, and I I I remember talking to Karmen and being like, I want to help with Wow P. And I don't know what that looks like, but I want to I want to be a part of it somehow. Like, help, like invite me somewhere, some way, somehow. Excuse me, please. And Karma goes, Okay, you can have better together. And I was like, Oh, okay, cool. And in my brain, and I think for a season it was just worship, and it was just kind of like organizing the team, leading the songs, getting the set lists, leading out, and that was it. Um, but then it became after Florida, it became me leading my friends, and that's where it just got really, really difficult because I didn't know how to spearhead anything, um, and to like give direction to anything, because I've always well every opportunity I was given, even leading up to that, was all supportive. I was only given roles to support other leaders to accomplish what they were leading to. And so I only knew the support. And so for me to now have boots on the ground where I'm like taking charge and having to give direction, I didn't know what to do, and so that's where that invitation of like, well, let's figure that out together, like guys, like let's do this together, um became very confusing on the receiving end because you're like, no, you're leading us, but I don't know how to. And so, and then even in times of planning and in conversation, I didn't know how to facilitate that time because I was like, okay, I know the need, and my I can see what's needed with better together, I can see what's going wrong, I can see what's going right, I can see where we can work on, but I don't know how to like move us as a team to accomplish this goal. And so in our meetings, there was a lot of chaos or just dysfunction because I would throw out something and then Alex would throw out something, and then I felt like Kate and Sarah would just kind of like jump at both opportunities and then like kind of like play with it, and then it didn't go anywhere.
SPEAKER_04No, we don't want to hear it.
SPEAKER_03And then I was like, okay, that didn't work. And so then yeah, it was like, let's do another one, and it just wasn't working, and I would see like moments where like my authority and my brother's authority would almost like bump heads, and then Caden Sarah would be like, Oh, I like that idea, and then or one would like one idea, the other one would like the other idea, and it just wasn't we were just not aligned, we were just not aligning. And I remember even going to Carmen and being like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but this is not working, and she was like, Well, because you're not leading, and she was like, This is where like you can like work and kind of give a leeway for them to um well one be heard and feel like they're actually and actively giving value to the team, and then two, like where you can just make the decision. She was like, You can just make decisions and you don't have to tell them anything because you're leading. And that was the first time somebody shout out Carmen, because she um even based in like the last episode, Carmen, Carmen has always treated me as a man who she um will respect. And there has never ever been a question about that. Uh, regardless of what she's known that I've done in my past, whatever, she's always respected me and has always just been a sister who has just given it to me straight. And I've really appreciated that. And so, in that conversation, she was the first person to really give me permission to just make the decision and go with it. And I think too, when you spearhead things, and we all have now like been able to spearhead other things with other people, as a leader, you have to just make the decision and pray that it works. And when it doesn't work, you own up to it, you'd be like, Okay, that didn't work, but let's let's move somewhere else. Um, and and be somebody who's like, Well, yes, that was a decision I made, but we can pivot. But as the lead, be as confident as possible to in the decision you made, and and so I think for me it was just a lack of confidence, a lack of authority, and a lack of vision, honestly, to really like take us somewhere. And then to see all three of y'all, I was like, these are really, really awesome people, and I don't know how to do this. Like, I just don't, I'm just like, who am I? Like, we should all do this together because y'all are all really awesome, but in reality, that's just not how a team is led, and that's just not how teams navigate. Because I think too, something a visual that the Lord had given me was that every time I would extend the invitation for us to like plan together or like input together, it was a vision of me just passing the baton in the center and like waiting for one of y'all to like go catch it. Jump on it, and that's just not how it works. Or the other vision I got was like I have it out, and then y'all grab it, and we're all trying to take that one thing somewhere, and it's not working because all of our hands are on it, and one person wants to go left, and the other person wants to go right, and the other person wants to go back, and all this different thing, and so I had to I don't even think I really figured that out until uh Better Together ended, and I really focused on like my ministry that was Marshall, and even in that, like that's a tension within like my leadership where I have a really hard time spearheading things and like being directive, and so which is funny because now the Lord has entrusted me to lead at Marshall and at my youth ministry at my church, and so I've really really had to grow in that area where it's like no, I'm just making the decision, and I'm having to communicate along the way with like my my um what is it? Like my counterparts. Yeah. Um but I have to create direction in order for us to go somewhere, and if I don't, and I always hand that to somebody else, we will never go anywhere. And um and so yeah, that's just been a that's been a real tension for me as a leader, and that was really like highlighted and put on display uh for all th all four of us to see within that season. Um but even in that just like really grateful for that time because no none of y'all three were like, well, none of y'all three like looked down at me, none of y'all three like said anything to disrespect me. Y'all just allowed what needed to take place to take place, and yeah, I just really appreciated that. And so even in that, like conversations between mean me and Alex had come up where I was like, hey, like you keep stealing it from me, and I'm like, I don't know what to do, and I need your help and all this stuff. And then um yeah, it was just refining, and um yeah, I can I can just say that like I'm still learning that. That's not something that I've accomplished or like quote unquote finished. Um like I'm still very much working in that area, and um but yeah, just grateful that the Lord continues to partner me with people who can extend that grace, um, but then also like encourage me to continue to push forward.
SPEAKER_05Dude, that's a great visual. And it's funny because you just said I'm not re I wasn't really someone that had vision and dream, and then you just said that I'm like, uh yeah, you are. Dude, that's that's a really cool like vision to see like you putting a baton out and having most of you know, most of your hand on that baton, so that us are just like a little part, three other hands on a baton is like little parts of it, but it's like as soon as like it, it's like no no no, I'm still like this is still my baton, though. You know, like I'm still the one leading this. You guys play a part, but you know, you have the ultimate like say in all of it. So yeah. I just thought about that. That's that's that was really cool. That's really cool.
SPEAKER_02I thought he was portraying that visual though, because of how much he's gonna be.
SPEAKER_03I think it can happen both. I think that person who's leading obviously is inviting whoever's on their team to go a certain direction. However, I would keep that baton. This is like what happened in reality, what the Lord showed me was that I would put that baton out and I wouldn't move. I would let y'all guide. And so I'm going wherever. While yes, it might be the baton that God has entrusted me with, I'm letting y'all take it wherever y'all want because I don't know how to give y'all direction. And so when in reality, what what a leader would do would extend because they they know the value that their team members bring, but still take it to them and be like, I'm leading and I'm gonna give us direction though. Because the other the other far end of that is like, well, he doesn't invite or she doesn't invite any of their team members into the planning, the process, or anything. So they just feel like they just feel used, they just feel like parts of an organization, they're not getting any like um input or say or not even use, just like useless. Exactly. Because they're not getting considered, they don't have a voice, because that person is just going for whatever they see is right. So I think there's a lot of different plays in like that visual, and so when I said what I said, it was more of like I'm just letting y'all do what even when you re-explained it, oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's not I thought you were like explaining like because at first it was you just chugged it and then we just wrestled for it. But then when you said it again, it was like, I have full authority and autonomy with this baton. You guys can say what you need, but as soon as I say no, like it this is my baton. I'm not passing it down. I didn't just throw it out for you for somebody else to grab it. This is mine, but I want you guys to take a part in this. That's how I saw it.
SPEAKER_03And I think after Carmen's conversation with me, that was maybe more of like what I had played into. However, it was still attention and it was still really hard. And I think there were a lot of moments where that wasn't the reality even after that conversation. Exactly. Yeah, and I let you guys, you know, I was like, go do it. Yeah, um, and and then even to like the whole prayer thing, I was just like, because I'm so like get it done, I'm like, why are we praying for 30, 45 minutes? And we have we haven't done we haven't done anything. And I was like, I remember there was one day in specific, because there was always a tension within myself when it came to prayer at better together, because I was like, this just is not working within our time frame. Somebody's late, so we're waiting. Like it just never felt like it was landing at a time where it was effective. For at least all of us. Yeah, and and I remember one night in specific, there was a time where we were praying, and I felt like my inside just wanted to come outside of myself. Oh wow and I was like, I need to get out of this circle, I can't do this right now. Like, let me out. I need to start doing something. This is not working. Oh I think that's the point, that's the moment that you recognize because even after that, you had come up to me, or we had had a conversation where you were like, I felt like tension, and I was like, Yeah, because we're not because we're not praying at the right time, and I was able to like share, share that. But yeah, and it's not that I don't I don't agree with prayer, it's not that I don't think we should pray, it's just that, like Alex was saying, there is just a time to pray, and I just felt like for better together. We were just never doing it at the needed and necessary time because we were like always fighting a clock, it felt like yeah, and so well.
SPEAKER_02Not the better together nights. Yeah, those nights we were praying for a really long time. Um demons were shaken, demons were cast out for sure, but frustration remained for some reason. But no, I saw some reason. But but no, I saw the frustration come up in our meetings, and those weren't long prayers, those were like, I would just be like, Chad, like are we gonna pray before we like start planning? And you would kind of be like, oh yeah, kind of thing. Well, you never really said it like that, but I could just see you being like, How do I tell her no? But I can't, I can't tell her no because it is necessary. So, but when it came to the prayer nights, I think that was a frustration for like all of us.
SPEAKER_03Well, to be honest and fully transparent, like I haven't really seen the value of prayer in a ministry until I started spearheading familiar youth. Um, because it was always attention, I always felt like it was taking away. And in reality, it adds so much, so much value and depth to your ministry. Um, however, if that is a weak point for you, just know that you can schedule time that works to pray.
SPEAKER_02Make time for prayer, that's right.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. But yeah, I just felt like we were in a meeting and we were going somewhere, and then it'd be like, well, we haven't prayed yet. And I'm like, I guess we'll go back and like pray.
SPEAKER_00I guess we'll make time for literally.
SPEAKER_03And so that's just where that's where my attention was with like prayer and planning. Better together. Yeah, it was a it was a tough season.
SPEAKER_05I mean, but we learned a lot amongst each other, and then just being able to work, and then obviously now that we don't, we're all kind of doing our own thing, like spearheading, you know, our own sites and teams and stuff like that. And it was used, right? The Lord used it in our lives, and I think that's super cool. Did you guys want to share a scripture?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes, you did. I found it though. Sarah found it, I'll share it. But it is First Corinthians twelve. Twelve through I don't have to read the whole thing, but um yeah, I'll just read from twelve. It says, For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one spirit we were all baptized in one body, Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, and all were made to drink of one spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many. If the foot should say, Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body, that would not make it any less of a part of the body. And if the ear should say, Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body, that would not make it any less a part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would it where would be the sense of smell? But as it is, God arranged the members in one body, each one of them as He chose. If all were a single member, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. Well that just silences so many lies of insignificance, of inadequacy, of like not being accepted, like not being valued, like and it's so simply put. And it's just like yeah, when we come to like see one another's roles, like in the body, it's like we begin to be grateful for one another, and like in that like love grows. And I can even keep going, um, because there's this part where it talks about like the one with least value is like all the more important. Um let me let me find it. Oh yeah. Uh verse 22. On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable, we bestow the greater honor, and our unpersentable parts are treated with greater modesty, which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. And I think that's literally what we've seen like with one another. We like fought like against like the division that wanted to occur, and now we're here.
SPEAKER_05No, we're doing it. And I think that scripture is like really good too to because obviously we're talking about our dynamic as the tandem. But um I think also now that we are leading and you know, specifically talking about our friends and the tensions that have come up with that, that scripture really speaks to like uh you're very significant to what we're trying to accomplish. Yeah, you know. And I think it's always like just keeping in mind the most insignificant parts are the most significant ones. You know, and uh yeah, I think that's that's a solid scripture. That is really good. For real. So how has it been leading teams? Your friends, the tensions that have arisen in that before y'all. Because we've it's yeah, it's been our whole conversation. The background before the recording. True.
SPEAKER_03I I think the biggest tension for me has been getting so easy like letting everything become so personal. And or it's like, okay, we're in this space, I'm leading your you're supporting, and then like there's something that happens, or like there's a comment, or there's side chatter, or there's like, you know, there's just like small, very insignificant things. And I would take it so like to offense, and I'd be like, what the is going on, and why can't these people just like respect me? When in reality, it's like well, I can't even do it for myself to like lead and like really take initiative. Um and so I think for me it was just like this tension of leading friends always came with patience and not taking things so personal because it's like when I'm here, it's like yes, I love you, but I'm direct. So we're not like like I don't have my friend hat on, and so I am leading. And so even in that, like I can't take things personally, which is hard because then it's like we leave we leave the that that space and that can kind of still be there. Um and I know that like me and Alex have had conversations about things that have happened in that space and that we've had to have outside in order to have a better relationship when the other is serving, if that makes sense. It's like so something might happen when the other is serving. You mean leading? Yeah, or leading. And we address it outside as friends, and that's what allows us to come back into that space to be better. And it's not being like this person who's like, oh well, you just just disrespect me, like, get out. You gotta go. Um because that's also not what Jesus would have done either. But I feel like those are like the two for me that kind of always get poked.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I I think not leaving not leaving that unaddressed. Because especially as as like you lead a space, your team, whoever it is that you're leading, is seeing this happen. And so if that just like remains unaddressed, you come back, and that tension is still there, then like all of a sudden the rest of like everybody else that you're leading, like something's gonna arise, and like it and then like the culture is just gonna be like okay, like we're just okay with like everything that's happening here. But that Jagger and I have addressed things when we go back, it's like I'm submitting to his authority, his leadership now, and even if other people don't see it, I think they do. Like it just it just it will benefit them as well, you know. And so I think not leaving like things unaddressed is super important, um, especially if you're gonna go back and lead them again, like yeah. So how about y'all? Kate, Sarah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know why this question takes me back to my childhood, but it just does. Um, and I'm like being reminded of something that like my sister said whenever like I came into the picture of our family, because she was an only child for four years, so it was just like she she just like described a little bit of what it looked like to be the only child, and she was just like the house was just so quiet, like it was just so quiet, and she would also like describe like my parents' relationship and how it was just so in the dark, like everything that like was going on. Like, I I kind of just see like a little girl like playing with her dolls, like just aloof to what's going on behind her, and like you see like the back, and it's like two prints like fighting, like uh maybe even like putting their hands on each other, you know, and it's just like you know, so it was just this it was just this like um unaddressed like darkness that was going on in like the home um before like I came into the picture, and so then she describes when I came into the picture and how she was like so happy that like she now had like a younger sister, and she was just like she didn't quote unquote say this, but it was like insinuated it's like never again was the house quiet, like like never again, like from it was almost like this thing, like from the point that Kate entered the picture, like there was always noise, there was always something like going on, and um then she like describes like who I was when I was like in middle school, and and she was just like you were just never afraid to address like the elephant in the room, like you were never afraid to confront, and I was always like afraid of like doing that. Um and I can even assume that that's because of how much she just was like in her own like world when she was like an only child, and so nobody like taught me that, nobody like told me to do that, it just was, and so as I'm thinking about the people that I'm now like leading, and how friends like are obviously in the picture, I've seen how he's used me to break this like um avoidant like culture that can come in and destroy like a ministry. It can like because if if clear communication isn't happening, no communication will break relationships, and so I I just like effortlessly like came in like that um into every space that like I've been a part of, I've seen it like roll out with Jagger, I've seen it roll out with Nivea, which are the two people I'm working the closest with. And I just saw how like I came in to break avoidant culture. And that was only possible because I did that with my sister at home. I broke the avoidant. No, we worked together to break that avoidant culture in our family, and so her and I started building this culture of like confession and addressing the elephant in the room and breaking like that generational cycle of like not talking about things. So what happened like within my family, and because it was addressed at home, I was now able to bring it in in like my ministries. So I even think of how that caused like this peacemaker demeanor of mine that ruffled people's feathers, and so it was this thing of like I started to see how that could like throw people off, how can't like confronting I could be, and not and not being like mature in it, self-righteousness enters the picture, not being mature in it, um being unaware of my tone, like enters the picture, and I start like I start wanting to control people, even in that like influence that I have, and so in all of that, like I had to humble myself as I was like leading people, and so to be honest, like at the beginning of the year, because this is my first year that I like spearheaded something, it was like a lot of fear and anxiety that I was leading out of, um, specifically like at Pat Nef, I believe, but it was also like going on at like the church youth ministry, and so in that I'm bringing somebody like I'm bringing a friend, like I'm having a friend doing that alongside me. And this friend is like being put in a position where it's like I can't get Kate out of fear, I can't get K out of like anxiety, but I'm being like called to faithfully like walk alongside her, and so it brought up past insecurities that had been addressed like within our friendship. It brought up um, it brought up like comparison, it brought up like um the importance of like knowing like your own anointing and like how if you don't know that you're you begin to like get moved by the way that somebody leads and that other person like doesn't know how to. And so in all of that, like leading alongside like another woman was was like unknown territory because I was now like the number one. I had no I no longer had somebody to like be like my safety blanket. Um and so and so there was a night where I find myself in a space where I'm not leading the ministry, where I'm just simply attending to honestly just like receive what the Lord has for me. And I just am walking into the space like just wanting to be, because a part of me had just gotten tired of um walking into spaces where Kate is the one in charge, Kate is the one that makes a decision, and so I just walk into this space like ready to just rest and ready to just like be. Um as soon as like people begin to arrive, um I'm like, okay, like this space is cool, like I I'm finally like gonna get a night where I'm not quote unquote like leading, right? And so the friend that I've been leading with literally like all year, all year long, um she also gets there. And and context for me, I can be like extremely like hyper-vigilant of like people's behavior, so I just like see my friend in that moment, and I can just tell that like my friend isn't okay, and so because in that space, I'm not like trying to be somebody that is leading or trying to be somebody that is just like like yeah, that like ministry like hat on. I just like leave space for it, and I'm just there, and I just begin to like enjoy the night, um, and then fast forward, like the night officially starts. And it's so funny because the person that was leading this space was straight up saying, like, tonight's gonna look different, like this night's gonna be different. Every like night that we have, it doesn't usually look like this. And so he was like transitioning into a moment of worship, and and we're all just worshiping together. But he also prompts, like, if you're being led to pray for somebody, like go ahead and do it. And I was just like, All right, like Lord, like just show me like who. Um and I'm just there like chilling, and I'm like, okay, like if there's nobody that I need to pray for, like, I won't do it. But then he begins to like prompt me into praying for saying it's hard to share this story. It's hard because I'll be honest, I'm afraid of like this person's reaction. But I know that the Lord is telling me to share this story because people need to hear it. It's just hard to like be honest about what happens in friendships in ministry, but I know that yeah, I just know that this is something that could potentially like help somebody not remain in dysfunction with a friend and not remain in this like avoidant culture, um, because that's not the way that Jesus has like told us to live, and so I just wanted to be honest about that before I even like keep going. Um, because I'm just trying to like dismiss the fear, um, but it's there, and so I know that this friend is gonna hear it, and I know that people are gonna know who she is, um, but not in any way, like am I trying to bash or am I trying to like make anybody seem any kind of way? Um, it's just hard to be obedient to the Lord, man. Um, and so I'm in this moment, and the Lord prompts me to pray for my friend that I've been leading with the entire year, and I'm like, I'm I'm just making up excuses. I'm making up excuses to not go to them. I'm thinking, no, I'm gonna get rejected. I'm thinking, like, no, they don't need me. I'm thinking, um, this isn't necessary. We can do it another time. Like, I can go ahead and pray for for her another time. But he was like, no, the time is now, and I'm telling you to do it right now. Um, and so I go up to her and I start asking her, like, I don't even know how I start the conversation because I'm just like feeling like my heart literally pumping um because I'm being obedient. And I just start asking her questions as to how she's doing, what she's processing, and she's being very um, she's being very like broad and general with me, and and I'm okay with that. And I'm I'm hearing her out in like the situation that she's finding herself in, and I'm like, I either ask her, hey, can I challenge that or hey, can I add to that? And she was just like, She just kind of like nodded her head, and she was just like, mm-hmm. Um, but then she proceeded to say, she was like, But I just need my friend right now. And in that moment, my heart kind of drops and like to my stomach because I'm like, that's exactly what I'm doing with you. Like, I'm I'm I'm being your friend right now. And I just kind of like pause and I'm like, whoa. And that that that small comment allowed me to see like where my friend was with me, and the way that like my friend saw me, and how leading together wanted to come in, like hinder what what what we had since before like we started leading together, and so in that moment I tell her I'm like, this is exactly what a friend does. A friend challenges, and I'm like, this this is who I always like been, you know. I a friend challenges, a friend like asks questions, and and I I I even feel like my lips like quivering as I'm like telling her this, and she kind of just like like takes like a step back and the conversation like leads into a a moment where I'm like where I end up telling her I end up telling I end up like no I end up asking her, I was like I was like, do you see me like as uh site director like right now? And she was just like yeah, like I've just like gotten so used to you like leading. Um and that went into like the conversation like saying, um that she's not able to see me as a friend because she herself doesn't see herself as a daughter, so she's not able to see me as a daughter, and I asked her like I asked her like how do you like see yourself like how do you think like the Lord sees you? And all that came from her was like a servant. So in that moment, like she was just like I just see myself as a servant, and that was that was when the Lord prompted me to like like point her back to him, and that in his word it says that he no longer sees us as servants, but now he sees us as friends, and it was just like it was just like the the the blind like completely came off. But as I'm speaking to her and as I'm talking to her, I'm not talking to her like gently, I'm being very like stern and firm because at this point, like I'm not playing about like my friend's like mental state, I'm not playing about her like not knowing truth, and in that moment, like the conversation takes a shift and other people start joining in the conversation, right? And so I kind of have to take like a step back um because the conversation had just shifted because people came and um I started getting in my head. I was just like, was that again like too much? Like, was pointing her back to truth like a lot, and I was just like, what if she just needed comfort? Like, what if she just needed like a hug instead or like a prayer? Um, but all that to say is that I saw the power in just bringing truth and not coddling somebody like in their dysfunction. And we ended up even being able to talk about like that moment and how much she needed like truth and how it wasn't too much for her. She was just like, no, like I just needed my friend to like be honest with me. Um but yeah, that has led like all all of that, like has led to so many moments of just like hashing it out, like with people. And that was like one that I think just showed me the severity the severity of like leading a friend.
unknownThat's hard.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was good.
unknownThat's hard.
SPEAKER_02Dang. Be obedient.
SPEAKER_01I think to kind of answer that question of like what are tensions that have been brought up with me leading friends. Um I think about my best friend, Sabrina, and um man, there was this one situation where so at City Life we we run Girls Night and Guy's Night, which is just girls' Bible study, guys' Bible study. And Girls Night has been like the it thing at City Life. And guys night too, but for girls specifically, like obviously. And Girls Night is where middle schoolers and high schoolers are able to come. Well, I'm leading high school I'm leading middle school, um, middle school residents and middle school leaders and volunteers. Um, but for high school, that director is leading high school volunteers and high school leaders and and residents. Um and so the crossover, it was kind of like the collab of like the collab of the year, like collab of the century. Yeah, like just I mean high like high schoolers and middle schoolers coming together is awkward, but we set like a really good foundation and a really good vision and and how we were gonna accomplish that and what what it would look like for high schoolers to um high schoolers to like meet their level of maturity as a leader, but also for middle schoolers to meet that standard of um meet that standard of like oh no, sorry, for for for high schoolers it was them meeting that standard of like being a leader and kind of like leading middle schoolers. For middle schoolers it was them meeting that standard of maturity and like actually answering questions. And so it was just it was a it was just like a beautiful Friday nights were like amazing. Um we would do like fun drinks and like like we would do like matcha or like ghetto lattes or um pink drinks. It was just fun, like it was such a beautiful environment of all girls getting together, middle school, high school, and these young adults coming together and just like having fun and laughing and listening to Disney Disney songs. It's just fun, like a a really cool environment. Shake it up. Um but one thing that I it's funny because this does bring up like a lot of childhood uh situations, but one thing that I have always struggled with is asking people for help and asking people for prayer, asking people to listen, asking people to challenge me, asking just asking people for help. And um, I know I'm I'm very aware that like this is one of my weaknesses. Um I've just always struggled with it, and I think it's because I've always seen my parents in ministry do period, just do. And if a leader at the church wasn't gonna get it done, well, my dad was gonna get it done. If a lady at the church couldn't go clean, well, my mom was gonna go clean. If someone couldn't lead worship or someone couldn't do backup, well, my brothers were gonna do it, and they were gonna figure out a way. Um someone couldn't play drums, well, they're my brother was playing drums, so it was like they were always gonna step in, not not gonna they weren't gonna burden people to um to step in for them. And so that's that's just the culture I've seen. Well, unfortunately, that's like that's kinda what has bled out onto me leading my friends, and I'm I remember this one girl's night. Um I had done like contacting, I had gone gone to lunches, and I was just having like a frustrating a frustrating day, and I uh I just like I was having a frustrating day and then other things were like happening and I I I didn't know how to like I didn't know how to like process it. So um I get to the to our center and like nothing is like right, like nothing is going to plan and basically like the I wish I could get into the details and I don't think it would be right for me to get into the details but basically what happened is I I had like opened up to Sabrina about how I was feeling and for me I thought I thought on my end that I was opening up to like a friend um but to her since she had volunteered with City Life, it was like a leader was just like spewing on a volunteer, and man, I was it was like it was really hard because for weeks I was like no I'm right like you don't understand that I needed a friend to talk to and I needed um I needed like a friend to hear me out and you didn't like and we've we've talked about we've had a literally right here we've had a conference conversation about this, but um like I was just like I just needed someone to hear me out and I needed someone to understand where I was coming from and she didn't but it was simply because of this like overlapping of rules and I think how our com how our conversation here ended was um well I had like I had gone on for weeks and I was like no I'm right and I had met with Houston and I'm like no I'm right like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna submit to this like thing of saying I'm sorry or apologizing for no reason like I I know I'm right and if she doesn't wanna like help anymore like that's it um I'm not gonna I'm not gonna like I'm not gonna like I'm not gonna beg for her um and he gave me this he always does this but he always gives me like a different perspective of things and he was like well maybe you just you don't you don't see that Sabrina at the end of the day just wants to protect y'all's friendship and the these few weeks that we had like after that incident had happened we were still like seeing each other but it that was like just pushed under the rug and I felt the tension I'm sure she did too but it was like no one was talking about it and that was on really my part because she already knows that she's going to like communicate things, but she can't be like my mother, like she's not my mother, so she can't be the one that's like what's wrong, or let's talk about it. Like, I have to take initiative as a friend to do that, and so he gave me that perspective like maybe Sabrina just really cares about your friendship more than you being her leader, and I was like, man, that's probably what it is. So I think it was that same night, maybe we we're have we were having a conversation here, and I just started like I I like started getting emotional. Like I I care so much about being a leader, and I care so much about doing things the right way and and making sure that the things that I have been given, the responsibilities that I have been given get get done. Um but really like the reason why we got there is because she asked me for help and I denied it, and she was like, Well, what's wrong? And I was like, Well, this, this, and this, and nobody wants help when she had just asked me for help. And so, or when she had just offered help, and so uh that's kind of like summarizing, there's a lot more details, but that's kind of like summarizing the story. And I just sat here and I was like, I'm so sorry that I have failed you as a leader, but simply because like I just friendship was out of the picture, like I'm just trying, I'm trying to figure out I would I I've been trying to figure out both of them, and really like I just I have to understand that you are a friend before you are a daughter before anything else, and you are like we are friends before I am your leader or before you are a volunteer. And um from then on like it's been different, I think, for me. I um I know I still struggle with like asking people for help, really like when it comes to I know I can't lead like by myself, but really like when it comes to like if I'm going through something, like I'm just I'm not the type to be like, hey, can you pray for me or hey I'm going through this? Any advice, you know? Um but I think that when it comes to like leading friends, I have to understand that before I see them as a a resident or a a volunteer or a leader in training, they are God's son and God's daughter, and I have to treat them accordingly, and it kind of reminded me of I was reading this earlier, and it's kind of funny. Zach had called me the other day and he was telling me that you were well, he didn't tell me like y'all's entire conversation, but how you had mentioned John 1, I think, and John 15.
SPEAKER_04Oh, first John.
SPEAKER_01First John, yeah. Yeah, and so I was like, I'm gonna go read John 15. Sorry, maybe I should know.
SPEAKER_04What did he say?
SPEAKER_01He didn't say anything after that.
SPEAKER_04Oh good.
SPEAKER_01He just said that it was like a moment of confession, but he didn't say like anything else. Promise. Anyway, so I was like, I'm gonna go read John 15, and because I hadn't been here in a while. And obviously it's like the vine and the branches, like everyone knows this, right? But um I went down and in verse 11 it says, I have told you these things so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. My commandment is this to love one another just as I have loved you. Man, to love one another just as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this. That one lays down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I have what I command you. I no longer call you slaves because the slave does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends because I have revealed to you everything I heard from my father. And I didn't even realize that's what you had told. That's exactly what you had told that other leader, Kate. I didn't even I didn't I hadn't even gone that far. Man, that's so crazy. But like I I think about this and I'm like, man, such a weird transition. Like the Lord's asking us to like remain in him and abide in him, and you can't do nothing apart from me, and kind of like going at it, like you can't do anything apart from me, and no fruit will produce no fruit, no fruit will produce without me, and that is why I come in. That is why I'm asking you to remain in me. That's why I'm asking you to rest in me. And it's like then it's a transition to like, okay, well now you need to love one another just as I have loved you, and there's no greater love than one laying down his life or his friends, and it it just kind of shows me like me being a good friend is just loving them, just as a son or daughter, and if if it's if there's tension like on if there's tension on my end where I feel like uh I'm kind of man, how am I trying to say this? If I if there's like tension with how I am leading them as their friend, then I have to come back and check myself. Are you remaining in in him? Are you abiding in him? Are you resting him? Are you finding your joy in the Lord right now? And if it's vice versa, like they they're unable to receive like love from a friend that is their leader, then it's that it's that tough question of asking them, do you do you do you remain in him? Like, are you are you abiding in him? Are you understanding that your identity always comes from him? And yeah, it's it's like our team won't get anywhere as seeing each other as leaders. Our team will get somewhere if we recognize each other as friends who are as sons and daughters who are spending time with the Lord. Um as friends who are how am I trying to say it? Like as people who are loving one another as friends, as sons and daughters, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And like I don't know, maybe you're like right there, you're like right there because I know I know what you're saying.
SPEAKER_05I don't know the verbiage either. I know but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Can I take a stab at it?
SPEAKER_05Try it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's like I think okay, what I think what I'm trying to say is like, hold on, like, for example, like Kate, if I just saw you as like another YFC leader and I loved your leadership, then that would mean nothing. Like if I was at if we were working together at Pat Neuf or at City Life, like, and we just saw each other as leaders and loved each other as leaders, it would mean nothing. But if I saw you as a friend, which whom I see as a daughter, whom I see as God's daughter, and I love the way that you speak to kids, I love the way you communicate, I love the way that you walk in and like everyone is happy to see Kate. I love the way that um you read scripture and you just know it off the top of like your head. I love the way that you um like I love the way that you lead as a daughter, like not the way that you lead as a leader. Does that make sense? Like, it's total two different perspectives of one person, and as a team, we could we cannot we can't bear fruit if like we're just seeing each other as leaders. Oh well, you're good at taking the trash out. Oh, you're good at like giving a seven-minute talk. No, like no money soul, you're good at listening, like that's what you're good at doing. No heaven, you're good at bringing joy to the room and not just like laughter, like not just like a leadership skill, like this is a son or daughter skill. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's good, because it that in those mentalities, you you're only addressing the servant, you're not addressing you're not addressing a friend. Yeah. That's good.
SPEAKER_01I think what were you gonna say? I I like as okay.
SPEAKER_02So we're talking like about the perspective of like friend, servant, and then sons and daughters. So as you were like saying it, it's like when we're all in a team together, it's it's sons and daughters serving right so we begin to we must see one another as sons and daughters who are serving together, yeah, who have been entrusted to lead in his kingdom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's this thing of like, but when we twist it around and we're like, oh no, it's just a team of leaders making his kingdom grow, we're missing the gospel. We miss the gospel completely because he went up on that cross because he knew how much God loved us as sons and daughters. So he was like, No, I'm gonna go lay my life down, not because I just see you as the chosen people, yeah, but because I now see you as friends. Because I'm able to see how you're son, you're a son and you're a daughter. So I must lay my life down. But it's just like when we begin to complicate the gospel for ourselves, that's when we're seeing one another as just a leader. Yeah. So we begin to grow offensive and we begin to grow self-righteous, you know, which I was able to admit because he has shown me how I've twisted the gospel in my own head, right? Which is like it goes back to John 15. It's because I'm not abiding. It's because I'm thinking I can do something apart from him, so it bleeds into everything. And he uses hard conversations to point us back to who he is. Yeah. For what the cross was for.
SPEAKER_05And I think too, like in that scripture in John 15, 14, he says, You are my friends if you do what I command. And then 17 is the command. He says, This is my command. Love each other. Then I no longer call you slaves because a master doesn't confide in his in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the father told me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and I think too. I think where like even tension arises and we see it with the with the with the disciples in the Suns and Thunder, they're like, Who's gonna be the greatest in the kingdom?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Jesus is like, it's not about who's gonna be the greatest. It's about who, which friend is gonna lay their life down for their others. You know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05When you do what I command you to do, love one another, right? Lay your life down for one another, humble yourself, look at others as greater than yourself, that's who's gonna be first in the kingdom. But here, that's the tension that we walk because it's like, who's the greatest? Like, you know, who's doing the thing? And like, you know, and then we start looking at people like beneath us and lower than us, and like, oh, you're not where I'm at, so like I'm just gonna like leave you where you're at. And like if you don't get to my level, like, no, it's like, no, I love you too much to leave you where you're at.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Like, I yeah, as a because Jesus loved me when I was low, when I was down, but he's commanded me now to you know, no, love each other. So no matter where I see somebody, it's not about who's gonna be the greatest. It's not about even who's leading or how I see as a leader or a servant, or you just do this as a volunteer for me. It's that no, you're my friend because Jesus calls me friend, and he commanded me to love you. So I'm gonna love you for your ass. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, and that like that brought me to like my other point. I was looking for it, but I found I I think I found it. But in Ephesians, like my favorite verse. I don't know how I missed this. How did I miss this? But in Ephesians 2, verse 7, it says, um, sorry, six six and seven. Uh, and he raised us up together with him and seated us together with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus to demonstrate in the coming ages the surpassing wealth of his grace and kindness toward us in Jesus in Christ Jesus. For by grace you are saved, right? Through faith. But then it goes to verse, sorry, chapter four, which is talking about living in unity, and it says, I urge you to live worthily of the calling which uh with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, putting up with one another in love. And then it talks about like the body, right, and how we all have our own part. But it's like so interesting that like again, if we were all I I I really think that the reason Kate has left the chat, but I really think the reason why our season of Betters Together wasn't like wasn't working was because anytime Jagger would mess up, it'd be like, oh well, there's consequences, like like get it together, basically. But I guess for me personally, like I wasn't seeing you as just like a brother, just as a friend. Like I couldn't just like like extend grace and say, Oh, it's okay, dude.
SPEAKER_05Like, you're being less like step up. Is that kind of what you were like seeing him as?
SPEAKER_01And and it and it goes for any team, like if if I'm seeing them as friends, if they're like, if they're I don't know, like they gave a bad talk, or they are running late, or they're um doing things that they shouldn't be doing, or they're talking certain a certain way to a kid, it's like this guy. It's like um it's like man, if I could just sit down and love them and extend grace and correct them because that's what making a disciple does, but or that's what making a disciple is. Um it if I could just do that instead of saying, oh well, next time do better, or like if you really want to be a good leader or a great leader, like you need to work on this, this is your blind spot. Let me know when you have it, like let me know when you you got it set. Yeah. So yeah, that just that kind of hit me.
SPEAKER_03Wow. That is good. That is really good.
SPEAKER_00Is that it, Chad?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I yeah, I think just instead of making it a part three, we are gonna That's it.
SPEAKER_05I think bottom line, just friendships, uh Friendships are so worth it.
SPEAKER_03Leading, refining.
SPEAKER_05The refining, but yeah, at the end of the day, um it's worth it to have that hard conversation. It's worth it to be real and honest with one another and it's worth it to Yeah, just help point each other back to Jesus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because we all have faults, we all have shortcomings, we're all gonna have a bad day, we're all gonna come in like what Kate said with our brokenness. But yeah, I mean, Jesus the greatest friend that any of us have laid his life down, humbled himself to to the point of death on the cross, and he says consider like one another as greater than yourself, right? He calls us friends. So good.
SPEAKER_03Great stuff. Uh really solid stuff. I want to say thank you so much for Kate and Sarah for joining us on this episode. We hope that those who are listening enjoyed just getting to embark on this conversation of friendship, leading, and seeing those around us as sons and daughters. And so thank you again for just sticking around. If you listen to both parts, shout out to you for RoForo. Uh, we love you guys so much. Thank you for taking the time, you guys, for joining us and taking the time. Um Thank you so much. I'm just having a conversation with us and just getting to hang out and have fun. And so we're gonna pray out, but we'll let K Shisey pray out. Sh bless us with a prayer.
SPEAKER_02Oh, this has been really awesome. Dear Heavenly Father. I just want to thank you for the way that you just use conversations. Use every single opportunity to point us back to the cross, to point us back to your son Jesus. And I just want to thank you for the way that you literally prepared us to have this this time together and to be able to record this this podcast. Lord, I thank you for the conversations that happened prior to this. I thank you for the convictions that literally just like fell upon my heart. Um and Lord God, I just pray that if there's any other um person who listens to this where conviction just falls into their hearts, Lord God, I pray that there would just be a re redire redirection, but just an acknowledgement of how much that is you showing up as a good friend, of how much that is you showing up as a good father, who just extends so much grace. And I just thank you, Lord, that you're literally using this podcast um to point people back to Jesus, and you're using Testimonies, you're using friendships, you're using everything, Lord God, in this to advance your kingdom. So I just thank you, Lord God, for the friendship that um we're able to just literally be in, not only with you, but with one another. I thank you for Jagger. I thank you for Sarah. I thank you for Alex. I thank you for everybody who's listening. Um and I just pray, Lord, that you would continue to bless this podcast, and that you would continue to bless every single listener, um, and that eyes and ears would be opened as people um literally finish off this like podcast episode, and that we would see fruit literally like coming out of this podcast, Lord. And that if there's people who haven't been abiding in you, who haven't been spending time with you, and you use this podcast to show them how important it is to truly just be with you, Jesus, to truly just believe who they are as a son, who they are as a daughter. Lord, I just pray that that would come to be. And so I thank you. I thank you for who you are, and we just glorify you, Jesus. We glorify you, and we thank you. It's in your name that I pray. Amen.
SPEAKER_05Amen. That's the Full Story Podcast. God bless, friends. Peace. Tandem out.