From Felon to Founder: The Story Behind Dave’s Killer Bread

On this episode of Fit For Radio, Drew sits down with Dave Dahl, the founder of Dave’s Killer Bread, whose life story is as wild as it is inspiring.

Dave grew up in a strict Seventh-day Adventist Church household, where structure and religion shaped much of his early life. But as he got older, he pushed back hard against that environment, eventually falling into a cycle of drugs, crime, and bad decisions that led to him becoming a four-time felon.

The stories about Dave almost feel larger than life—like something out of a Paul Bunyan tale—where fact and legend blur together. But behind the chaos is a real journey of struggle, consequence, and ultimately, redemption.

Dave refused to let his past define him. After years of setbacks, he helped build one of the most recognizable and successful bread brands in the country, turning a second chance into a massive success story.

Today, Dave has found sobriety and a new perspective. He’s slowed things down, focusing less on the grind and more on enjoying life, reflecting on where he’s been, and what really matters.

This is a conversation about second chances, rewriting your story, and proving that no matter how far off track you go, it’s never too late to build something great.

Transcript

Introduction to Dave Dahl

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I punched a cardboard cut out of myself because I got mad that I guess I was just mad that that cardboard cut out of me could be there, but I couldn't, you know. Yeah, yeah. It makes sense. I punched it, and that was the beginning of a bad day. Cops came, but there was nothing to get me for. And, you know, I then I I went to Seattle and back and um long story short, ended up getting a slow speed chase with cops in the neighborhood. And then I ran into a couple cop cars. It's inexplicable.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

You're listening to the Fit for Radio podcast. I'm your host, Drew Titeman, and I'm super excited for our guest today. But first, let me tell you, we are at the Stafford Hills Club like we are all the time, where I already hit the gym this morning, hit a little sauna, and you can get all ready here, and even uh you can rent a suite right next to me if that's your prerogative. But watching them getting everything ready for that sunshine season, the pool ready to go, saltwater grill. Get on board, get the family going, and come down to Stafford Hills. Find out all the details about the amenities at Staffordhills.com. Now, my guest today is a guy who is quite his name is quite famous, uh, where I grew up here and across the country as of now. His name is Dave Dahl, also known as the founder of Dave's Killer Bread. How are you, bud? I'm really good. Thanks. It's so nice to have you in here. Now, I feel like just about everybody that I know from around here has some sort of an idea about you. Now, I don't think that many of them necessarily know your story. They know uh some sort of a Paul Bunyan version of it, uh, a lot of wives' tales, game of telephone, where people don't necessarily know the real story of Dave Dahl. I don't even know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

I don't remember a lot of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

So we'll try and find part of it. Now, you you grew up um in a family that was a little bit different than your run-of-the-mill family. They were members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Is that correct? Yeah, very much uh, yeah.

Struggles With Identity and belonging

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Very uh peak. Now I I did a little research because I was completely clueless as to what that is. And it's a very strict upbringing. It uh not just with what you're exposed to, but also your diet, exercise, all those things are all intertwined.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Well, a strict Seventh-day Adventist, uh at least back talking 50 years ago or so, you know, that was uh, you know, they do have a very strict sort of um adherence to diet, diet standards, mainly, you know, no meat, but that was that tends to be, you know, kind of fluid. And I mean, there there's just really strict people that are vegetarians. My mom ended up being a vegetarian, but um that that's that side of it, and then there's just all kinds of temperance. So you like to call it temperance where you just don't do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

And um, instead of you know, worldly, my mom would call it worldly things.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Oh, I that that's a way to keep it in check.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

I had to find out the hard way what worldly was.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah, and and you find your way towards worldly things at I certainly did at some point. Now, early on in your upbringing, um, and some of this upbringing also kind of leads to where you succeed later on uh because of some of those dietary things. Now, at what point did you realize that you might be a little different than the rest of the family?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Weird, I I um always was more concerned about um presentation, but you know, and it's fitting in. As a youngster, I wanted to fit in, but the more I tried, the less I did, you know. Because I didn't fit in with the family, I didn't fit in with the family religion, and we went to Seventh day Avenue schools, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

So it was church and school, and everything was kind of tied into this.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah, I was very um, you know, like I said, upbeat, but uh also that, you know, I didn't even fit in with those guys. So I was pretty much a loner.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

So and you've been pretty open, you know, over time about struggling, you know, with depression and low self-esteem. Is that something that you were experiencing all the way back then or did that come later?

Dave's Unique Upbringing

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I think I was born that way. I mean, I can't hardly remember um having good feelings as a youngster. There must have been like moments. I think I have like glimpses of moments, but in general, I thought that I was just uh born to be less than or something, you know. It's like I was that's the way I came up.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Now, um how long do you kind of hold serve with the family before you start to experiment with uh quote unquote worldly things and and going outside of the box of what the church would prefer?

SPEAKER_00 5:14

It was weird. I I I think I started, it must have been about 12, give or take when I said to myself, I'm not really going for this. This doesn't make sense to me anymore. But I had been I've been taught all these things going to school. Very I was a good student, uh, pretty good, you know, and uh I told the line up to that point because I really believed what I was being told. So I would I did, I learned the Bible almost like the back of my hand in a way. But then I started reading the Bible um and asking God to show me signs or show me, you know, somehow let me know that he's there, you know, that there's this God thing. And uh the more I thought about it, the more I went through it, uh, and I tested the idea and the theory out, it just became became more and more depressed about it and life in general. But I I eventually became an atheist, and I'm not an atheist now. I don't believe atheism is its own religion to me.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

It's kind of like you know, but at the time you would kind of to get away from the intensity of it, you would kind of say, I'm nothing.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, uh nihilistic, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Nihilistic, I don't know how they say And is that that's probably a form of self-preservation there as well, you know, because to atheist to the layman, it's just kind of like, well, I've I'm no longer practicing something.

The Descent Into Substance Abuse

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, or I believe that it at least for me, it meant that there was no God, you know, there's nothing. And so being um since there's nothing, that just gives you it's like what matters. The floodgate opens. The floodgate opens, you fall off a cliff, I did, and you fall into those worldly things.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Now, uh it so at one point you do attempt to do the standard nuclear family, and you you have uh a wife and a kid.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

I never I never thought of it that way. Uh I was like I said, I be growing up like I did, I was pretty low, I had low self-esteem all the way up. You know, I was doing, you know, acid, cocaine, uh, a lot of weed, smoking weed, and never agreed with me, but I drank too a lot when I was a kid, when I was a teenager.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

And so you're what 15, 16?

SPEAKER_00 7:28

In those years. And then I got married. I I actually tried the Marine Corps for a minute, thought that would put me in this into shape, but I wasn't ready for that.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Wait, for a minute. So did they boot you out? Or yeah, basically. Um it's such a long story. That's its own, that's a whole nother podcast.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

That's another chapter of the book. So um but it's it's nothing to brag about, I can tell you that. It just wasn't right for you. It wasn't right, and I wasn't ready. I was really worldly, and I wasn't worldly enough for that yet. And I I love that, I mean, I keep using that word because it it's pretend, you know, right after that, basically within months, I was getting married. And I just it was just like Is this something you jumped into? Yeah, I always did that. Impulsivity has been my a little band-aid there. It worked for me, impulsivity at times, but mostly against me.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

So during this time um where you've you jumped into the family life, are you still partying pretty hard here?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Yeah. Uh you know, I went through reprieves, you know, getting with my wife at the time. Um we did some drinking, but it wasn't that much, you know. We didn't smoke a little bit of weed or whatever, but it wasn't like as a year or two into the marriage, I started getting more into the drinking.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

And at what point do you decide um that you're that the family life isn't for you and that you're gonna move in a different direction?

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Well, I I always thought I was gonna play in a rock band, you know, either guitar or vocals. Yeah. Um so my wife actually was very supportive of that. But it was just, I was just I had no character built at that time. And I was kind of like, whatever, you know, girls, this, you know, alcohol, drugs, that, you know. Impulsive. Impulsive and just, you know, ruined my my relationship with my wife. And then she finally said, screw this. I I'm I'm out of here. I'm out of here. Good for her.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

And so when she decides to leave, uh, you kind of fall into a like a deeper depression, or how but where do you transition from here? Because you are you're about to make a decision soon here that uh will kind of like a rocket ship send you in a direction.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, that's it's good, that's timing. I I was at the bottom, it's one of my bottoms, right? One of the early bottoms, I guess, where I just said I was suicidal, but I never had, I guess I used to think I don't have the courage or the balls to take myself out, you know. That's what I should do. If I was if if I was a real man, I'd I'd just get get it all the way because I'm not doing anybody any favors. Uh so, you know, got away from, I mean, my wife and I eventually get divorced about the same time. I put a needle uh full of methamphetamine in my arm, and that was my first, I call it my first transformation.

The First Transformation: Embracing Meth

SPEAKER_02 10:23

So I always uh I'm always kind of, you know, enamored with that, you know, because I I've partied plenty and I've done all kinds of stuff, and I'm sure that you it's laughable compared to what you could offer up here, but meth is something that I was always deathly afraid of because I know where it takes you and what it leads to and the paths that happen there. How does that end up in your arm? Because it's I feel like the first time it's more of a decision than any other time, because once you've tasted it, now it's trouble.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah. I really didn't see um I didn't see any reason to live, so I didn't have anything to lose. So you were riding the ride. Yeah. Well, I I so I was seeing this girl that lived next door, and we were partying and just drinking, and we get some coke, and you know, I didn't know anything about drugs in those days, and I just like, well, I'll buy a quarter gram of Coke and get it on. That's not enough to do anything. You know what I mean? So she was like, Well, we could we could spend this kind of money on met on crank, called it, and we could say hi for the whole evening and whatever the next day and stuff and have a great time. And we and that's what happened. But I went over to her house, the drug dealer comes over, he's a crazy looking Charles Manson looking guy. Uh, but he goes, you know, dude, do you wanna do you wanna, you know, you wanna ride in the car, do you want to take the rocket? Uh-huh. And I was like, what the hell? Who cares? I'll try the rocket. Yeah, the rocket was the rocket. Sent you straight to the moon. It it did. I I've never seen anything happen. I mean, and it it wasn't like it made me crazy. Well, it did.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

But but in your mind though, uh to piggyback on that, from what I've heard from people, um, is that when they take the drug, it makes them feel not just like invincible, but like hyper-aware and super smart, almost like the limitless drug, you know, where you take it and everything's on clear. And and now the problem with the drug also is is while it might be clear to you, the guy sitting across you is like, that guy just went off the deep end. Yeah. And they can see it.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Well, they see the the energy change, the the you get a high, you're obviously you're you're gacked, but gagged I've always thought of as more like when things get too out of control. And at first, you're really just like super aware, super high or super excited. Like everything's better than it's ever you ever imagined it could be. I looked around and I saw this uh this painting on the wall, and I was like, I gotta have that. How much for that? You know, and that's how my life became. So yeah, it just completely changed my personality. It took all the negative out, it's all positive and dangerous.

The Highs and Lows of Addiction

SPEAKER_02 13:16

And so at first, that's probably that's a crutch that you're gonna lean into because you are depressed, you are having a lack of self-worth, and when you take the drug, that fades away.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah, everything that I'd worked for. I mean, that I used to try to stay in shape and stuff like that. So I wasn't in terrible shape, wasn't pretty good shape when I was young, you know. I mean, I I had a lot of potential that I didn't even see, but I was I always was trying to do something, and all of a sudden this mess made me think of myself, well, all that stuff matters, and now I'm somebody.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

So what does what does where does that head that head? Because at some point during that, it becomes something that's no longer helping you. It's kind of become something that you're you're chasing and you're having trouble keeping work. What what happens there?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Well, I hardly as long as I was high, it seemed like I was fine. You know, unless I got something that wasn't so good, right? But usually it was pretty good in those days. And um I was able to accomplish a lot of stuff on it. And then but the problem was I couldn't afford it. You know, I was working, but I I this was my first opportunity to lose a job, and I I managed to do that through drugs. But at first I was I was working and I was called moonlighting uh out jockey boxing stereos with my with the guy who turned me on to the dope.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Oh man, okay. So he's so he's also out stealing.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah, that's yeah, he's that's basically what he does. He's just troublemaker. He's just all the way they used calling crankster gangsters in those days. But he was uh he was bad news. And I was just happy to be bad news too.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah, at the time you're leaning in, you're embracing that role. Do you have any contact during this uh period with your daughter at all, or does that s completely sever?

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Well, at that point, I mean we're talking the beginnings. I wasn't I didn't have any daughters then. Oh, so this is before I did have one daughter that was born uh right about that time, just before that.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

And yes, I I did. I tried to maintain maintain contact with her. Um, but it was it was hard because I was doing drugs. You were living fast. Yeah. I wasn't doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

So my God. So you start to get into a little bit of trouble, it looks like, and you're getting are you getting kind of like slap on the wrists here from police at first?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

It was like maybe a year down the road. So things are going all right for a bit. Not really. I mean, I was doing stuff, but I wasn't getting in trouble yet. Okay. I was creating trouble, but it just wasn't ending up on paper. Yeah, it didn't add up to me being in jail much. Yeah. Okay. I went to jail for burglary in my I've been in jail before that, but the first time it matters, I went to jail for burglary. And uh then I did nine did I got seven years out of that. But back then, seven years was in my case, was nine months. So they let you out on good behavior or it's just because I hadn't been in trouble before. Okay. So yeah, I I had a low, they call it a matrix score, and they sent me the bottom of my matrix, and I got out in nine months.

The Consequences of a Criminal Lifestyle

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Okay. And so when when you get busted for that, what were you doing that got you caught? Were you in a house? Were you Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Uh we did this burglary where this different guy now. Uh we're going there. His guy was really good at well, he was really good at finding burglaries and did a lot of them. Okay. Well, but this one we broke into this house and it turns out that two old two old ladies came home while we were there. Oh. We ran out the door. That would have been, that could have been, you know, with later laws, that would have been really bad. Uh, but we ended up getting getting caught. I broke the back door down to get out. And uh and then we we got picked up down the road. And they caught you.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Yeah. Um, so at this point you've you've done you've done some time. You did those months in jail. When you got out, where where do you go from there after that that stint?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Uh just more I just was like Did you want to get back to drugs?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Were you doing drugs in jail?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Were you No, I wasn't really doing much in jail. Um But I I I craved getting high again. It was the only way I was gonna be. It's like I had already decided this was me, this is what I do. Uh but it wasn't I wasn't in prison long enough. At nine months, it it wasn't enough to really sink in like it did later. And I I was able to just immediately I got out and started getting high again, started selling dope. Uh just you know, petty, pretty, pretty small time.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Now I saw in your notes you said you tried to sell dope, but it w didn't go so well. Were you just not made for that, or you just do the drugs instead?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

All that in the in the early days of selling dope, I wasn't made for it. Uh I had to not, I was good at the numbers, you know, all kind of stuff. I was good at the business numbers. But I just wasn't good at playing at uh knowing how to how to be a dope dealer. Uh and it was a lot of fun, but I never could like you you'd get people high or you'd fret the dope out and you never see the money. Yeah, or you do it all yourself. And uh it was just you know those early days of trying to sell dope. I didn't know what I was doing. Later on, I got a lot better at it.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Well, and really you find that the best drug dealers are the ones who aren't deep in the product all the time. You know, it's like they know not to do it. They sell it, they don't necessarily do it on that level. And when you're with all the people who are, you know, looking for another fix or a little taste, it's right, it's hard to low level.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Uh you stay that low level unless you figure something out like those guys do. And one of one of the things is you you if you get connected where you start getting bigger bags, it's harder to screw up. You know, you can get busted with a bigger bag, but with a bigger bag, you don't run out as easy. You know, you have more you can do and and waste and still make your money back so you can't be caught.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

So you do you're kind of doing this stuff for a while. What where do you where do you go from here? Because you do end up back in prison. How does that happen? Or is that are you out for a bit, or does it is it just this lifestyle is is meant for being behind bars?

The Cycle of Crime and Imprisonment

SPEAKER_00 19:41

For me, it's what it turned out. I didn't want to keep going back to prison. I I didn't think I always thought I'd be smarter than next time. But of course, the second time I was just I was just desperate. I I was running from from Oregon. Uh I was on parole and I violated parole and I uh took off cross-country, ended up in in Wyoming um first in Wyoming, and I got busted for Eddie Stop in Wyoming, did 90 days on my way to Massachusetts. By the time I was getting to Massachusetts, it was winter time, and now I don't even have any way. I don't I I barely had a coat, a little coat. It was blizzardy and did you hitchhike?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

How'd you get there?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, well, I I had my the my buddy talked me into coming out there. He's a uh he was working in construction and he was doing well. He said he could get me to work, and that's why I was coming out there. And so he sent me like enough money to get a bus ticket, but I decided to keep the money in my pocket and hitchhike, and it did not work out pretty well. But I did get there, but I uh ran into some really bad weather on the way, and it was tough.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Oh, I bet. So I bet halfway there you're wishing out that bus ticket.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah, yeah. I live that's the story of my life though. You know, I don't think I didn't think things through, and that's one of the things you talk that I learned in treatment, all these things it's learn how to play the tape through. You know. So you just don't make the same dumb mistakes over and over.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, and living in the moment like that, it's tough because it's all right in front of you, and then all of a sudden the drugs are burned up, you got no bus ticket, and it's 15 degrees out. That's right. You know, it makes it exactly right. It makes it a tougher ride.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

And that's where I got busted the second time or the big second time was in uh was in Mass, Massachusetts. So was this another burglary? No, I was doing robberies. I learned like that robberies were a lot easier.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Okay, so it was to do to rob someone straight up, like in person.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah. Uh yeah, robbing stores, robbing, I robbed drug dealers, I robbed all different things.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

But so would you just put a mask on and walk in with a gun, or what would you do? I didn't even bother putting a mask on.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Um I was pretty scary, though. I was a scary looking dude, long hair, leather jacket, whatever. I just You give them the look. Yeah, they were scared, you know. And that's all I had to do. I never had to hurt anybody. But I mean, to me it was all kind of a game, but I I didn't care about. Life other than getting high.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Trevor Burrus Did it ever did you ever when you would get in these depressive uh scenarios, did you ever think about those people or were you so into the drugs that you didn't care what it was doing to, you know, say the clerk or whatever? Yeah. Only later when you only when you're actually reflecting.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, and you actually have a a conscious, conscious. I I do remember uh robbing a lady in a liquor store and just I know I told her I was sorry, but I gotta do this, you know. Oh man. Uh because that felt bad it was an older lady and stuff. I mean, these things were really It's got a grip on you. Yeah. He was like, but but I gotta get high, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Mm-hmm. And so where were you when when this final uh when you get busted in mass?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Um I was in Rainham, Rainham, Massachusetts. Um we were we were gonna go rob a dog track. He had an inside job he had planned on this dog track, and all we had to do was get enough gas to get there. And that's how bad it was. We woke up and we're oh my god, we got it, we're all, you know. And I and so we stopped it. We saw this one place. Now, in those days, stuff isn't open all the time. Um, you know, there wasn't like all these mini marts and stuff open 24 hours. Yeah. And I we saw Donna's ceramics was open. And uh just Donna's ceramics, like it's open. Gotta have a few bucks so I can go get this, so we can take care of this bigger thing, right? And so I went in there and I think it was the husband who was behind there and behind the counter, and he's just like, he has me over$13.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, but$13 was like a little bit more than it was then back then. It was enough to get us to, but uh, that's not what I was aiming for, but um, that's what I got. I ran out the door, but he'd already he'd already had Donna in the back calling the cops. Uh-uh. That's the kind of that's the kind of smart stuff I was doing, you know, just totally impulsive.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Losing one of your people that you're supposed to keep an eye on as they're heading into the bag.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Right, exactly. And this guy, this guy was supposed to be driving for me, and he I always told him park here. And so I would go and I'd come back out. The first time it happened, he when he didn't stay where he was supposed to stay, and he took off, I had to go search for him. Well, the first time it worked out okay. The second time we had Donis, uh, it was a disaster, you know, because he, as it turns out, we were also on a cul-de-sac. Oh, no. It's one of the Keystone cop stuff.

From Chaos to Confinement

SPEAKER_02 24:33

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SPEAKER_00 25:42

And the driver wasn't there. He had moved again and he got scared and he moved. It's like it was, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Is he just being a bit of a tweaker? Is that what he's doing?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

He was scared. He would get scared sitting there. He'd start, you know, getting a little jumpy. Yeah. And uh so by the time I got found him, the cops were already, you know, and were in a cold sack. And I'm arming these stores with a big knife, you know, so I just threw the knife as far as I could throw it into these bushes. Cops saw me do that. So they chased down the knife. Oh, we got your knife, dumbass. Oh no. And then uh, of course they would chase me through a mall and stuff like that. I mean, I ran for a while and I just gave up. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I did five, I got five to seven sentence, and I did four and a half years on that.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

So in Massachusetts.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah, and I got beat up on the way pretty good. Cops almost killed me. Really? In the uh, was it Taunton? It was the Taunton. See, I went, I got by Serena and they put me in Taunton, which is like county seat or something, or not quite, but it whatever it was. Uh it was a bigger town. And the the cops there, um, I stayed there a couple nights with my co-defendant, and they wouldn't feed us. And uh I said, you you pigs gotta feed us. See, that's the kind of thing I wasn't. You're thumbing your nose at them. I mean, I'm mad and I was, you know, hungry. I was like, fuck it, you know, no food, no, no drugs. So I, you know, I'm I'm being uh I got bromado going on, that's it. And I said, uh, you know, you you know you gotta feed us, you pigs gotta feed us. That was just the lamest. And they beat the they pulled me out of the cell, four of them started beating me up with these sticks. And I'm just going like this, trying to keep from getting hit uh in the face and stuff. But uh finally, I mean, I wasn't all I wasn't fighting back, I was just you know, put covering.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Just kind of blocking.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Right. And the dude, uh, this great big steroid uh monster gets a hold of me, picks me up from behind by my neck, starts squeezing the shit out of it to the point where I couldn't breathe. And I guess I automatically was fighting. I've never heard anybody else do that, do this, but I'm choked out and blood started pouring out of my throat like a geyser. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and it went out like three or four spurts, and there's blood all over the floor in front of me, and they even freaked out.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

I bet.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Yeah, so I mean, I don't hear this story. I'm the only one I've ever seen, but it happened to me. Yeah. I thought I was gonna die.

Prison Life & Personal Struggle

SPEAKER_02 28:24

I was sick for a month, but it was my they probably like hemorrhaged something in your throat.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, well, listen to my voice right now.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yeah, you can blame you can blame that giant steroid monger uh for all of that. So you go through that, they beat you up, then you gotta go to prison. For you, what was prison like? Like what was and it probably got and tell me if I'm wrong, I don't want to put words in your mouth, probably got easier with time. Because for me at first, I'd be freaking out, you know, like, oh my god, what am I gonna do? I'd be like sitting there doing push-ups on the ground all day trying to like get strong.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Well, I did we did work out. Um, you know, I was it was tough because I was there's no drugs for me. I mean, I could have hooked up with drugs in there, but that it was I was just trying to survive uh day to day and noisy in the Massachusetts was the noisiest, you know, the county jails. I was there for like seven months in the county, and it was a crazy jail where we would there was these we called them uh cockroaches, but they look like cockroaches, but they were huge and they they made noise when they walked, like boom, boom, boom, you know. And uh you'd grab them and you could have uh you could have lighters in your own matches and all this stuff, so and we smoked bullies. Uh so we'd but we all have it a fire light. So we had all this, and whenever we had paper, we'd burn it and throw it out on the tier, and the cops come by with their with their extinguishers. It just that's just the way it was there.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Just part of life. Yeah. We set the fire, you put it out, repeat.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Exactly. They knew it was gonna happen, they enjoyed it, get kept them busy. But what but there were these bugs, and I would have to light them on fire and listen to them scream, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah. That's a tough place to be. Well, you start to um you kind of like hit a rock bottom when you're doing these this time in jail, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

I always was in rock bottoms, but there was a particular one you might be talking about, my fourth time down.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

That was in Oregon. And I was sentenced to 118 months for delivery, controlled substance, and assault too. It was a it was a deal. I got set of going federal.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

So did they was that a sting? How did they get you?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

No, another another high speed. This was a high speed chase. Okay. And just wrong place, wrong time. Driving the wrong car. Uh you know, just uh the stories are long.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah, so basically you got hemmed up on that.

Turning Point: Seeking Help

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Yeah, it was it was a crash and you know, crash and burn, and started out bad, and and you know, got better for a little bit until she got used to it, and then you hit back down. You get see, I had I had been busted in five counties or five separate cases in three counties that year, 1997. And uh all felony cases, some some some violence and a lot of drugs and guns. And the Feds wanted to put me away for 20 years, 15 uh federal and five years consecutive for a gun, or 15 for uh armed career criminal. Uh so they were gonna do that or take the state deal for a little under 120 months. And instead of 240 months, I would do about 120 minus a time in Oregon. Okay. Yeah, didn't want to. I wanted to fight that shit. But it anyway, I got uh I did it, it was like I don't know how long into that. So about it was three years into that sentence, uh, when I I had just been depressed and uh ready to go, ready to take myself out. If I could just figure out a good way to do it, you know, uh a way that would work because I I would fuck up a suicide. That was kind of what my thinking was. And um I was part of it, and the other part must have been part of me that wanted to live.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Yeah, there's a little there's a little morsel of both in there.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Yeah. And so I'm I'm at that point, and I did something unthinkable to my former self was I'm gonna tell on myself till I have a problem that I need, I have a mental problem. I I'm a miserable person. And you know, I one way I'm high is the only way I'm good is if I'm high. So somebody can help can somebody help me? Because I guess I had some idea that they could maybe help me. That maybe medication would help me.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

So this is the first time in your life where you've narked on yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

And I well, intentionally, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I've made some dumb mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Uh but to actually wave the flag and say this is what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

That's exactly how I look at it. You know, you're depressed to the point of suicide. Um What do you got to lose? Yeah, and you wave the white flag, exactly. And you put a kite. I put a kite in the box, they call it a kite in my communication form, and I asked the psych services uh for a date, and they they brought me in, and we talked about my my thing. Well, you're just extremely depressed, so why don't you try this? And I tried Paxel. And it began to, it just helped me because I was really ready to change. It actually was a tool that I was able to use.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

So it was able to let you kind of harness your thoughts a little bit and kind of get in lockstep there.

Finding Purpose Through Education

SPEAKER_00 33:59

That's a good way to put it. Harness your thoughts. You know, keep it replaced the bad ones with good ones. I was able to do that because I I had this tool, but I also went to school. I had the opportunity right then to go to school for drafting. And that that's my big, my big lesson in life that I like to help others do.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah, because you that that's something that I was actually gonna bring up to you that you you kind of got into like a thing where you were helping other inmates as well and teaching them.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Well, that was the natural progression of that job. You you know, some guys fade out. I was really into it, so I had an opportunity to be a tutor, and I also did project drafting, which was a blast. Oh nice. So I I would, you know, we had a uh construction tech um partner too, and wood shop and all that, and they'd be building things, and I would draw the plans to to make those those things. And I had people work with me, like, well, I I like this, but I want it to be like this, and I would I had the ability to um create new things.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

And that mixed with the medication, obviously, is helping, but it's giving you a sense of purpose and it's and and showing that you know I am, I can contribute. I'm not just you know, when you're in your own head about things, it's like, oh, I'm not good enough.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I'm not I'm the I would just be able to say, well, I'm nothing's I'm no better than anybody, but I'm no worse than anybody either. That was a big deal for me. And to me, that's what humility is. Yeah. It's kind of like just being who you are. And uh I was all of a sudden I was okay. You know, I was more and more every day. I was a little bit more okay with myself.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Well, and you think about how many people are capable of great things, but they're stuck in their thoughts. Yeah. And so it's like, and I always call it on here the failure to launch. You know, it's the idea, and I talk about it with physical fitness all the time, but it's the same thing with your mentals and when it comes to like a job that you're like, oh, I couldn't do that. And so you just never launch, you know, and be if you never launch, you never find out if you can spread your wings or not.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Exactly. Well, I never thought I could. I didn't, I just there was like that glimpse or once in a while you would think you had something in you that was a spark of something, but it never proved out. Yeah. And then um, here I was, 38 years old. And, you know, I don't know which came first, chicken or the egg kind of thing, with with the the drafting, the meds, the the thinking, all those, everything combined, I all of a sudden started seeing that I was somebody. You know, nobody special, just somebody. But you know, I it ended up uh I had a special opportunity. So yes, I I was very those are what you talk about, the failure to launch, that's a good one. Um I've always failed to launch, and now I bel now I don't I'm all about you know going and failing and being okay with it. But not but nowadays I'm a little bit slower to start.

The Birth of a Business Idea

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Yeah, well, I mean it's tough because the safe mode, uh a lot of us don't step away from the edge because it's safe inland, right? And it's the same thing with me or anyone else. It's like my old job and what I did for 20 plus years, that's safe. And that's easy to but to launch into something else that's frightening.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Yeah, you don't know um if you're if you're safe, if you're uh, you know, protected. Uh yeah. You know, I mean, which you got a net to fall in? Probably not.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Probably not. Free fall, baby. Uh so at this point, you know, you're starting to, you're starting to like hone in, got your you got your meds and your mind's kind of doing the right thing. You you got positive stuff happening. Are you even, because we know where this ends up going, are you even, do you ever even think about bread during this time?

SPEAKER_00 37:51

No, it's funny. Um that's the last thing on my mind, being able to, my my family, I wanted to have a good relationship with them, but I never imagined that I could that I could get along with them. Um get all the way back. Yeah, going to that again. That was like the last, I was always trying to get away from that, and that's what ended up making me this way. So uh it did it, it wasn't until I I had so much kind of success with uh the things I was doing in drafting and playing guitar, and everything was kind of going well, exercise, I was running all the time, I was in the best shape of my life. Yeah. And um I just I don't know what it when it occurred to me that the things I was doing in drafting, I could apply to baking. I could anything that you can envision the process of first of all creating replicating something. I knew I could replicate, right? So what am I gonna do to make it better? And so I thought I can do this with not just bread, but I was thinking baked goods. Yeah. I thought I would go from one market to the next and like, you know, one area of the country to the next and go, oh, this is selling really well here, but we don't have this in Portland. I can replicate it. And then you grab it and go. I'll create a version of this. Yeah. That was my original idea. So anyway, I brought it up to my brother. Uh, and it was a big deal, you know. My brother, though, is a very good-hearted man. Uh quite a bit older brother? Quite a bit older than me, eight years older. And uh, great guy. Uh, but we were we were estranged at that time, and he had to he was taking a chance bringing me back. Because I'd I had come back a couple times and I'd always burn it, I'd always fizzle and you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

And that's the thing with family. You get a sometimes you get a couple extra chances.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah, and he had to give me a couple extra chances. But I was a different person. I think he knew that I was a different person at this point. You turned that up. And for his business. He thought, you know, hey, Dave could Dave has always been pretty creative, but he's always never been able to stay focused. And if he could do that, then he could help us.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

So did you go back to work f with him then? Is that where you went?

Creating Dave Killer Bread

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Yeah, when I got out um late 2004, basically early 2005, I he gave me a job. Um, he just had me filling in. There's always people, seemed like the bunch of stuff opened up for me there. All of a sudden, I mean people were never making it to work. Always people calling in sick. There's Dave, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Always there, making 12 bucks an hour. And um I was like, 12 bucks is fine with me. Yeah. Living in my mom's garage, fortunate, happy, you know, grateful.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Free.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah, free. Better, better than anything I'd been doing in years.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Not only that, but I just had this spirit of like, hey, man, I'm gonna do something. I didn't think I was gonna do something like that. I just thought I'd make a good living and have fun.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah. So what do you do? Do you uh do you start are you just making like at the bakery? Are you making baked goods? Are you making bread?

SPEAKER_00 41:04

What are you Well it was mostly it was a bread company. It did cookies, cookies and bread at the time, mostly for Trader Joe's. So they had a big Trader Joe's contract.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

That was what that was the bread and butter. And uh I was uh, you know, I I had some old skills from growing up, like the production skills I used to have, flipping bread out of the pans and baking bread, you know, just kind of little things that you learn. And I I walked in with those, with that basic knowledge. I just had to, you know, kind of hone the craft and I was pretty good at it.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

So at what point did um so you're making bread, but you know, at some point you make like a special loaf of bread or this what goes on to be called Dave's killer bread. How does that come about?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

My brother um and I both agreed that I should be experimenting, creating something new. Uh I had done that in the past, but you know, nothing pretty real serious. But I didn't have a belief in myself that I did now. And my brother um just he started me out on fixing the cookies. The cookies needed to be updated to a healthier person. And so I worked on that. That was pretty easy because cookies are a lot easier than bread. But then the guy comes, you know, a brother comes to me, he goes, Yeah, yeah, because I was gonna create a bunch more cookies. I was on cookie thing, you know, I make some great shaking. And he goes, uh, come on, uh, cool, turbo. It's uh we make bread. And I'm like, oh no.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Because bread's a bigger, a much tougher animal than cookies. Uh as far as, you know, there's just a lot more things you gotta think about and be aware of and and and and build. So I I had to go out. I was scared to death, actually, but I also believed in myself. So I felt like if I go out and I replicate products, I will be able to make better products. And so I I figured out how to make other things, what made the bread good that was out there. And then I figured out what would make it better to me. And that was what happened. It took a lot of experimenting, but it happened in a quick short time. People say, How long did it take to do that? And I go, like 43 years. That's how old I was.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

That's what it took to get to the point where you could do it. Yeah. But you it but once you started trying, you got it relatively quickly.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Surprisingly quickly, yeah. I didn't expect it to be such a hit. So I thought I was just making some good products for the company and we move on.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

So it kind of has like a like a prairie fire moment, right? Like so you guys take it to a farmer's market and and you you show it off and and people immediately are drawn to the spread.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

One of the things I tell people all the time, I if if you you know something really good, you can prove test market it and prove it. You know, you you you understand.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

You know, people don't want to they want to jump to the success part. Yeah, you know, there's so much work that went into. to this. I worked really hard. I worked like 80 hours a week, you know, working regular hours and then working experimenting. And I just had some bread that it people some people like, some people hate it. You know, some be the the old timers around there are like, oh, this bread. They say it's going to be too expensive, nobody can pay for this. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay, you know, whatever, we'll find out, right? So we took it to the market. The Portland Farmers Market at that time had this annual bread fair called Summerloaf where people could bring their own cool breads that they come up with these artisan breads. And so but I brought I was able to bring mine to that. It just blew everybody out of the water.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

You know it's just an amazing so did they have like a voting system there or was it just word of mouth kind of it wasn't really a contest.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

It was an exp exhibition. But the buzz was about the buzz was clear and radio and TV and uh well with within a uh month it was like that there was there I was getting a lot of attention from the media and stuff. Not just for the bread but they're like people loved they were tickled this bread came from this guy who had been through this. Yes with my story on the back of the bag because it was Dave's bread. That was my brother's idea. Call Dave's bread oh no come on I don't want it to be about me. Yeah. But then I did Dave's then I came up with the idea of killer bread so it became Dave's killer bread. And which is a great name. It is but you can imagine the people you know initially the marketing people were like oh you killers no no because that's negative and a negative you know you say your bread kills people Dave and you're and you're an ex car.

From Local To National success

SPEAKER_02 45:47

He looked like he bit the bill yeah so but it became a great top great way to me for me to get on you know oh yeah and I remember way back when I first heard about the bread it was your story that was kind of the fuel behind it that was kind of pushing the bread in front of people and then the product was speaking for itself.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Yeah and people the product was if it wasn't for the product the state matter much and vice versa I guess you know it's it it they they're one and the same you know they're not separable. Yeah so yeah it became uh but the the story is like you said it becomes it's wildfire. I was I I started going from one place to when I started driving like Bremerton I remember one time but early on first time I went to Washington to do something I went there to do this uh demo of my bread and the media come up to me and they go why didn't you tell us you were coming so then I realized started realizing that I need to start telling people I'm coming.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Yeah and get like a pull a press release going. Yeah uh because people will come far and wide for for your bread. Now it it's still a mom and pop type of an operation at this point, right? So you guys are running this yourself. And at some point you're gonna gain eyes from beyond because it's starting to really pick up yeah it's um it had its own own wheel own wings or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

It just but I had to work very hard to keep up with just the opportunity. The opportunity was there but you know so I had in the next two or three years like Costco started saying hey we want your bread right will you you know what do you want to do? You want to get it in there and I'm like we're all like we can't do that. We can't a lot of bread. Yeah we can't make that much bread and uh but we figured it out we had to make a big move went to Milwaukee from northeast Portland to a small 1500 square foot to like 5500 and that was a hell of an ordeal and a lot of you know took a that was where everybody else was you know very instrumental. Yeah it was a big team effort and now you needed more more hands on deck. Absolutely but we did all along but this was just really had to be yeah and you know my brother my nephew and myself did not get along for these entire Dave's killer bread soccer.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

It all was uh that was all contentious?

SPEAKER_00 48:26

It was uh I was I come out of prison and I'm doing this right and they've been sitting there doing they've been throwing a line all these years and doing the right thing and you're and now yours is lightning in a bottle. Yeah exactly and they uh they didn't want to I don't think they really wanted at that time to see that that my experience mattered for something you know my alternate experience.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Well now this is a this thing becomes a beast of its own I don't think you could stop this train if you tried. You're listening to the Fit for radio podcast where we record live from the Stafford Hills Club and if you're anywhere in the vicinity Tiger to Walleton Wilsonville Lake Oswego in the south end of Portland it is the premium, premier spot to get yourself into shape, relax, recover whatever it is you're looking for or if you just want to hang out by a pool that feels like a resort, Staffordhills.com, check out all of the amenities and of course tell them that Drew sent you we'll get you half off your initiation here at Stafford Hills Club. How is this working with business? You know so if you're saying that it's it's contentious between you, your brother and your nephew, well aren't you guys all in this venture together? How do how do you work through this or does that blow up what happens?

Navigating Family Dynamics In Business

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Yeah I mean it I always wanted us to be all for one one for all but you know for some reason we just couldn't do it. And then we but we all had to kind of jump on the train no matter what because it was there it was rolling you know and it was um as bad as things were getting it was kind of like I almost got to the point one time I said screw it I'm just I can't do this. And I was gonna leave but we ended up getting my brother managed to find us some uh some help like a family business shrink if you will okay and he uh he kind of kept you guys together well he he was we had to do it to work but he was we I don't know if we could have done it without him I don't know we were at that point waving the flag a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

But your brother stays on board and you guys continue the venture together?

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Yeah my brother uh was always the CEO in those in those days and uh he was always like it was basically he gave this project of the bread to me and my my nephew my nephew was just getting out of I mean he had just graduated with honors and uh economics from from Willam University in three years that guy and he had an ego on him like you wouldn't believe and uh of course he's changed a lot since then grown up but he was a real bastard and and he was my partner. He was like my partner in this thing we fought like that's a dog school yeah I bet.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

And when family family can fight in its own special kind of way too yeah it's so stupid. Yeah to be honest it yeah so I come from a big family and we all love each other but you also can it can the claws can come out. So I I totally I totally get it. Well what so what happens from there? You know you've got you've got this bread that's taking off it's getting notoriety you've got places like Costco calling I mean that's no joke that's a humongous account what do you what do you do?

Securing Funding to Expand Operations

SPEAKER_00 51:48

We had a one we we needed$1.5 million dollars to make the move into Costco at that launch. Yeah at that time$1.5 million dollars was more money then but it was also more a lot of money to us and where were we gonna we didn't have any any uh collateral my brother did he I mean but not really not enough so we needed he did have a house he had to put up and then there was money uh then we had to get the rest of the loan and that was it was 2008 you know and it was nobody wanted to loan anybody any money.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

In a recession.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Yeah and but we had proved that we're growing like crazy in a in a recession but that didn't prove the future was going to be ours. And so it took us a lot of work finally got us got a uh a loan.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

And you got that loan to get into Costco.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Well so that we could move.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Oh so you could get to your bigger location to like$55,000.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

That's right with the equipment uh we needed it and just it's just an amazing logistical thing you gotta do. And we had to keep the production going and move at the same time. And then what it was is we had this relationship with Bob red Bob Moore from Bob's Red Mill for many years before that. My dad worked with with this with Bob Bob used was we were we were his first wholesale flour customer back in the 70s and another wildly successful company. Incredibly successful way ahead of Dave Skiller Brad and he was like Big Daddy when I well and I was I was talking to Montane I saw him at this convention he goes you're moving I got a place for you and it was his old mill.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Oh cool yeah so you guys went in there. Yeah it was it was totally not built for us but we had to make it work yeah one way or another um so you know at this point um you know like because if you go into a Costco today I was just in there yesterday with my kids and we walked down the bread aisle. So was I half of the bread aisle is is Dave's killer bread. I mean it it it is honestly it was nearly 50 outside of hot dog and hamburger buns it's half of the aisle. Yeah um I mean because you've got three or four varieties in there.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Yeah see I uh and only one of those is mine.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Yeah and the rest are now just piggybacking the name and I'm not even gonna talk about the other ones. Yeah okay fair fair enough more power to them yeah so they well and they they knew that the name had legs and and so they piggybacked different brands underneath yeah that title some ideas yeah they're not my kind of ideas but they're right they are ideas yeah um so during the during this time like what at some point you you guys are going to sell part of this company.

Challenges of Growth and Accountability

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Now what happens between when you guys get up and running and when you decide to do that when Costco began 2009 early um it was a lot of work just to try to keep up again just to create just to we had to enlist other bakeries to help us make it and that's hard because people's cultures and stuff trying to create something different. And are they going to keep the product at the level that it's that you want it to be at that was hard and and there was a lot of you know holding people accountable it was really bad uh in some ways but it had to happen it was a just a growing pain and you know but I'm with those next couple years I'm out and we had to hire um uh the first time we ever had to hire somebody a big uh player uh um a operations manager so that my brother and my my nephew and myself could get off the floor do other things and this guy would take care of it when we really messed up there was only one person that even applied major job like this but only one person applied and he turned out to be worked from France he came from France bread and like arch enemies and they've been trying they were looking for ways to keep us from getting more of shelf face. And uh but anyway this guy went undercover.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Oh so he was he was a rat yeah there to steal your yeah two like two I don't know how long he was there like what year and a half or something.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

And he was just stealing all your ideas and your recipes. Yeah he was so ineffective as an operations manager. We were like this guy's got a weird style of doing things it's not how we do things. But we were my my nephew and myself were like okay we got to get rid of this guy and then about the same time he comes I'm thinking he must have got a feeling he goes he comes up and he goes well I got to leave I got to go do a consulting job down here you know like and we were like oh yeah right and next thing you know he's got I got good seed that was my my favorite wine is I have a good seed tattoo on my it it it signifies my change transformation from bad seed to good seed and he uh he created they created great seed oh god come on I had 21 whole grains he created 22 perfect grains can you believe that what a weasel yeah well that's uh it's just part of the weasel uh uh it's like a whole operation yeah it's just a weasel operation so what and you weren't able to hold him accountable for any of that it was just no mid sign you know that's that's those things those agreements are pretty weak yeah anyway a lot of gray area there um so you're at this point you've you've gone through that guy what is what uh are you still partying here I was I was really starting to party here okay I was too busy working my ass off I was a workaholic so you know I was addicted to something it seemed like right so I was a workaholic and I started drinking but I didn't have time to drink that much so I had to buy my mind was on other things but it got easier you know I started doing so much uh like interviews like this but uh just speaking I was speaking like every day it seemed like somewhere and I did this this was just incredible incredible whirlwind going on yeah and uh I would drink but it wasn't creating problems at first and eventually it got easier and I drank more and it led to problems.

Personal Growth and Mental Health Awareness

SPEAKER_02 58:19

Mm-hmm and that was like 2000 by 2012 and early 2013 things had hit like a bad spot I mean yeah so you you actually had a breakdown in 2013. When when you say a breakdown, what do you mean? A mental breakdown. So did you end up in a facility?

The Downfall: Accusations and Consequences

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Yeah it's it's a it's one of those long stories but that whole day November 14 2013 I think um I'd been acting pretty pretty far out there. I I'm just thinking oh yeah you know you don't know your mental when you do that. Yeah but the day as the time as the day goes by I got more and more manic. I was hypomanic I'm just feeling it you know what I mean and so I walk in now I had been kicked out of the bakery because I got some trouble. I mean things were just going the wrong way and creating created this brand now I I gotta get kicked out of it you know it's like you're on a sabbatical we gotta well you do a sabbatical I think you need a sabbatical I was like okay I'll do a sabbatical so I'm on a sabbatical long story short I I agreed that it was a good time I mean I'd been accused of murder there was a lot of weird stuff going on uh I hadn't killed anybody or come close to it but the wives tales were running rampant yes somebody died it was a friend of mine and I was around when it happened but I did not took it yeah um so anyway that's that's it was coming out on Facebook that I killed somebody you know and Facebook was my main connection to people in those days I built the business with Facebook we built it with Facebook uh and now all of a sudden they're coming up on there and they say yeah I my cousin Chris he got killed you know and out by Dave yeah he had something on Dave and you know I mean I had to take him out yeah and so anyway all this stuff was happening it's just one of many things that was happening but it was too much and everything was amplified because I'm a public figure at the time so um I finally went in one day and I said uh you guys I punched a cardboard cutout of myself because I got mad that I guess I was just mad that that cardboard cutout made you be there but I couldn't you know yeah yeah it makes sense I punched it and that was the beginning of a bad day cops came but there was nothing to get me for and you know I then I I went to Seattle and back and um long story short ended up getting a a slow speed chase with cops in the neighborhood and then I ran into a couple cop cars it's inexplicable.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Well everybody's wanted to do that before yeah so what happens to you here what what's the charge? How long do you end up back in prison or and that's what got that's what's weird about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Um I I wasn't a criminal at this point but I did something criminal and uh it was all because I was really out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

Yeah yeah were you off the medication?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

No I don't think I was but something was just yeah I I I'm not sure maybe I stopped even taking the meds because I was so spooky you know and I didn't know that it was going to make any difference. So I anyway I don't know what happened but I was drinking then I I wasn't drinking and not drinking made me manic and uh hypomanic and then manic and and I was psychotic that night and anyway long story short I ended up in Cedar Hills Hospital for a couple about three weeks and they they figured out I was you know bipolar. That's what they just you know it's a label they put on it and uh and I got medicated for that and I got out and I was still manic still hypomanic but not dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Okay.

Mental Health Struggles and Diagnosis

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

And uh then I shortly after that there was a Lametweek article that came out called Breaking Bread uh and what was that all about it was like breaking bad logo yeah oh okay and here he was his four time felon you know makes his bread and then crashes he's right back in yeah yeah bad guy again you know breaking breaking bread and so uh but the article was I was oh that's cute actually you know but I wasn't together it was a rap tight and it hit me so hard reading about me killing people and all this stuff I'm like and it's just all BS right but it yeah it all added up it's hitting home yeah and I was like oh no and I I I hit the bottom biggest bottom of my life gun where you can't move you're just so depressed and medication doesn't do anything for you when you're like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

So you just lock yourself inside or what'd you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

You don't you don't get up to lock yourself inside. Just lay you just sit there lay there uh for hours on end and know everything sucks you know and it's not gonna get better for for a while you know I let down millions of people you know hundreds of thousands of people easy at that time uh but but you know most notably my my company and it was just just unbelievable to me I'd had such this great ride but I'd also been humble I thought that I was had a I was a humble person. Yeah I wasn't you know right and high rock star crazy but yes I did lend code in my head a little bit and I I that was a problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

Mm-hmm so do they ever let you back or do you are you now have to be from a distance or what what happens with the company and concerns kind of just it came in distance I mean I wasn't dangerous uh you know now we're trying to we don't we had just sold we had sold a year before that sold half the company to a private equity yeah now private equity it helps build it now it's building it up and they had to work around me yeah you know but they knew they had a good product but they have to deal with this quote unquote liability.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

Yeah and in reality um I wasn't a liability but that's that's what you do. They had painted you with that brush. Yes the def planned defense at this point.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Because they'd k they had they had kind of shelved you in with that idea.

The Impact of Success

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Yeah it was it was painful. That was a big part of it too. This is my brand and you're gonna not let me in yeah and I mean I guess I understood it at the time because I was back to not feeling very good about myself. So but eventually I came around to think you know why didn't they why did they like lock me out forever it was hard for me to accept that. But in 2015 we sold the rest of the company and you know everybody goes well you got you got what you needed what you wanted right no that's not what I wanted you know I being a well being wealthy doesn't take the place of of that amazing thing that happened that I I was able to do and I won't be able to do again in this lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

So if you in a perfect world you would still own the company?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

I'd have a little bit I'd have I'd have a spiritual aspect to it. I I would still have some direction some some uh say yeah and and I would just be like well you know this is how we got here now do we want to just do everything opposite of that? You know that's kind of what they did. And it's like okay well now the day's gone we can make it like everybody else's bread. Yeah and still call it killer bread.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

Well because the the level of success of the brand And uh during your time and even now is insane. Like the the fact that it's everywhere, you know. People ask me, like, oh, who's who you haven't on the podcast this week? And I was getting my hair cut, and the lady asked me who it was gonna be, and I said it was you, and she flipped. She was so excited. Uh she was like, she's like, you gotta tell him. I've been saying this. If he makes a sourdough jalapeno cheddar bread, it'll change the world. I I told her I'd tell you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

I love it when people I love it, and I meet people in the stores, you know. Yeah. Once in a while, somebody, you know, in the old days it was all the time. Now it's like every once in a while, and then they want to tell everybody. So there's like a crowd of people around.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:46

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Because once you see it, and since everyone's seen the bag so much, like when I came down to the lobby to grab you, I'm like, oh, there's Dave. Yeah. He's still got your signature mustache, the whole deal, it's all there. I don't have the long hair. Uh you can bring it back. I can't grow long hair like that anymore. Um they put you pretty ripped on the bag, though.

Reflections on Business and Future Aspirations

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

That was my creation. I told them. Yeah, that whole thing was was that was my idea, the logo. It's a long story. My brother had a fract, uh, he was like, put it, put Dave, put Dave and his guitar on the back. And then what and then I wrote my story. And it was just gonna be my me and my guitar, like a picture. But then uh the copyright guy goes, Well, you need a a really you need to make a distinctive logo. And while he's talking about that, I'm talking, we're talking about the back of the bag and everything. And I I came up with the idea of the guitar, the guy, you know, Dave's reading big letters, and then somebody comes along, and this is on a brick wall in the alley or something, and tags killer over the top. Yeah. But that doesn't show up in the logo, but that was the original. That was the idea. And then when I finally got somebody, uh an artist that was able to do it for like a hundred bucks. Now, I mean, it was cheap, man. It was like 500 bucks, I think. And uh he he drew me, just kept drawing me, making it look a lot like me. And I'm like, dude, we don't need it to look like me. You don't want it to look like me. Make it look like a prettier version of me. Like a version. And and so nobody would ever just go, oh, that's Dave. You know, and then uh he said the arms were really tiny, like like these, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

And I had and and I said, uh give me some guns. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he made a balloon big. Yeah, they were good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

That's amazing. So if you were to, if somebody were to ask you straight up the bread that you made, your loaf. Your loaf compared to what they're they've got now, what would you would you say that it tastes like similar to your bread? It does.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:57

And I I I have to be careful here. I don't want to say anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:01

And I don't need you to go kick them down the road, but you know, because this happens with big brands all the time. It's not exclusive to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

I guess they've figured out what they can do, what they can what what's good enough to sell as Dave's killer bread. Okay, that's what they did. There's less of this, more of that. You know, it's just corners cut. Yeah. And uh that just happened with everybody, like you said. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

So the the CEO of uh the ex-CEO of Dave's killer bread at some point, I don't know which one, but he just went viral because his house in Lake Oswego, that's your nephew? Yeah, that house is insane.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Um, and so it's now being like used as a short-term rental on the river there. He doesn't mind, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

That's the plan, which I mean I guess I was supposed to say they, but he doesn't mind, they don't mind. He he's uh um he's kind of famous now for being a um drag uh what they call it. Like the dancers back in the day. A drag queen? Yeah, burlesque dancer. Okay. He's a drag burlesque dancer, and he's like 6'8 in his high heels. And he's got long hair now, like I used to have back in Denver. You know, he's uh he's he's like non-binary. And he called goes by Mona Trombona. But anyway, he's a much better person than he was back in those days.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

I'm I'm absolutely like, do what you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

Yeah, whatever makes you happy. Yeah. But that house is crazy. So I didn't realize that that was still your nephew who was running the company. He's not anymore. Yeah, he's so he's done.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

Yeah, he was we decided uh we had a very amicable choice when my brother retired as a CEO. We decided, okay, which one of us is gonna be the president, which is CEO? Well, the CEO out ranks the president, right? But I just I was like, you're much more the CEO kind of guy, I'll be the president. And so he was the CEO and and very effective at it. Um, and so that's why people get confused where they think CEO has got to be Dave. Or I never was CEO, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

So where when you finally were paid out of it, uh, not to get into actual numbers of it, but did they pay you enough for you to be all right forever? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

Yeah. If I didn't blow half of it, you know, in the first couple of years, it would be even more lucrative. Yeah, it would have been better. I would have been more thinking about long-term, like investing properly. I'm fine, but you know, not as good as I should be. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:40

Now, they're there's one thing I wanted to ask you about is a lot of these guys who create big, amazing brands or companies, a lot of times they sell those companies and then they use their skills to re-enter the market. Um, perfect example is like the guy who uh invented the pods that go in your driveway where you fill it up and then they come and pick up the pot of your stuff and take it. He sold that company and then built the company that was their direct competitor right after that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting because that is something I couldn't do. I couldn't get it. You couldn't do this again. Not like that. Uh I would have to do something else to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:19

So is it their fine branding?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

Oh the branding would have to be totally different.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

You couldn't use Dave's killer brand, but you just have uh skill, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:28

Yeah, I'm able to create. I could create a new product, I could create, I could uh do the branding, you know, develop develop the uh marketing. Uh I could be a big part of that, right? And it's just the opportunity hasn't hasn't knocked. People always come up with ideas and they think, oh yeah, you should do this. No, you know, the one thing that I really have thought on the bread side that I would like to create uh a really killer pizza crust. You know, it's uh the idea is simple, but it's not easy to do, and it's not easy to to to scale and build. So I I'm just I'm not sure I want to do something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:10

So my my mom and my wife both bake bread and um they're super into it. And I'm always trying to tell them, like, why don't you guys open up like a little like bakery type thing? And they live in a kind of like a bougie-ish area, it could work out, it could do the whole thing, and they they like pride themselves on the real ingredients, like the European style or the Canadian style of not having all of the nasty ingredients in there. Yeah, but it is competitive.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

But to get off the ground, I mean it just gets Well, I say, remember at the beginning that we were talking about uh getting into the farmer's market. I say, if you can if you can test market a product.

The Journey of Entrepreneurship

SPEAKER_02 1:13:49

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SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

You know, we have the great opportunity to get in the farmers market. And so I'm like, I don't know what I would have done without that test opportunity, that opportunity to get it out there to people. It's hard to get into a store. Uh it's really hard to say, start a neighborhood bakery or something. It's the lot goes into that, a lot of work, and it can it's it's it's the odds are not great, right? So if you could test the mark the the product at a market, a farmer's market. You can get an idea of whether it has legs or not. Yeah, you you just work your way. I mean, if it's good enough, it'll carry itself. You just have to work hard to keep up with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

Yeah, well, so you're basically telling me that it's not gonna happen unless I have the superior product, which I think it's good product, but I just don't know if it the good thing about your bread and when you created it, it just was different from everyone else's. Like everyone's got their baguette or whatever that they make, but to be able to show someone that this one is better than that one, and and you had the the whole like the nutrition factor was a big selling point. And then being here in Portland allows like almost like an extra catalyst there because they're seeking out they were, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:58

That was a great opportunity in that regard, but I think you could do it with the right product, you could do it anywhere. Um and what I did that that made it I knew it was better than other breads of its type because I designed it that way. So I'm like, I didn't know people would pay it the money for it. That's what it costs money to make a better product. And uh we didn't have the the economies of scale like bigger, you know, at that point. It's like making it and and you're not making the money.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:32

And but you know it's good. So that's what you really gotta believe in the product, you gotta believe in in something. Something's gotta be special if it's your your story, your you know, whatever. Something that makes you different. Yeah. Your brand. What kind of what's gonna make a brand out of it?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

And well, and you did an incredible job of that. You built um you built a superior product first, and it took off like wildfire um and made a lot of people a lot of money. Um now, that wasn't the end of any sort of struggles for you, right? You're you're human like anybody else. I'm probably more human than most people. Ultra human. Yeah. Um, and you had uh another bump in the road um not too long ago.

Overcoming Personal Struggles

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

Yeah, uh, you know, I've always struggled with addiction, I guess. And uh, but I've I've stayed away from you know the little days of slamming, you know, MAP and all that crazy stuff. But I I drinking it was socially acceptable. So fall back into that, all it takes is a little bit of drink and I'm on. So I gotta leave it alone. So 20 months ago, um I got in trouble, like it uh keep it simple, I got in trouble with the psychiatric security review board. Now, ever since that incident in 2013, I've been on this uh this powers that be kind of thing. And the our the thumb on you. Yes, and it's worse than parole, because I've been on patrol. And this is worse, it's way more intense because they can't afford to have you screw it up. It it makes them look bad and you can't blame them. Uh more than parole. People expect people to screw up on parole. They don't expect you to screw up when you're in this. So just drinking was enough to get me in a ton of trouble. Send me to Oregon State Hospital for five and a half months, it cost me$20,000 to get out attorney and everything, you know, because people stayed there for years. And uh I wasn't crazy. I was I had just drank. So it w I was in the wrong place, but I had to prove it. I had then I went, yeah, then I spent five months, four months in-house treatment for alcohol. And then I've been on treatment ever since then. But it now it's down to one day a week. But I was living in sober housing for quite a few months. So it's only about a month or two ago that I was finally able to go live at my my company.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

At your house house. Wow. So are you and still kind of excited about it? Yeah. So how long has it been since you had your last drink? Uh 21 months. That's impressive. Well, I don't have a choice. So so you are a guy who's always craved uh the buzz, right? So uh is it something you think about often, or is it something you feel like you've got your thumb on right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:26

I got my thumb on now. I'm fine. I'm fine without it. All I gotta do is remember that I'm happy. You know, I don't need a drink. It's funny, it's just like a uh lysine on the cake to drink, and then that's it it's the end of the world. Yeah. So I can't do that. So I have to play it through.

Finding Balance and Simplifying Life

SPEAKER_02 1:19:42

Yeah, and I think some people are different. Some people can have a drink and be like, oh, there's my nightcap and it's over and it's done. And some people, and and I think I lay somewhere in the middle, but it's like if I don't have it at all, then it's fine. But if I have one or two, then like I would like another one. Like I just I don't so I don't want to get I don't want to get but no, no, I know, but it's like I it's a sliding scale. So some people they have one and the next thing you know, they're naked in an alley.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

You know, it's like I don't have that behavioral problem where I lose it, go crazy and stuff when I drink. I just drink a lot. I just have a very, very strong system when for drinking. Um you just keep going and I don't even after a while you're not noticing it. You just gotta keep going and drink a whole fizz real quick. It's a half gallon, you know. I mean, I saw how it was for me. And go to a restaurant, bar, and you know, they would know me and they'd come in and they give me my double, which is like a quad. You know. Oh, yeah. They knew what you needed to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:48

So what would you say? Uh, you know, because I I did mention to a couple of people that you were coming on here, and none of them know you, and every one of them had a different story or something that they thought they heard or knew. And I was like, well, I'm actually gonna sit down with them so we'll kind of get through all that. So for all these people who don't really know who Dave actually is, you know, it's not it's not a story of um of like murder and shoot-ups and and this and that. It's just more of some running around and some things went down. But you it's more of a guy who's just fought addiction, right? And then has had to take on his own demons. Self-medication and self-medication.

Legacy and Relationships

SPEAKER_00 1:21:35

And then acting out uh because of of the drugs, but to get the drugs and all that kind of stuff. But but I I don't need to do that now. So even if I screw up, I just screw up, you know, get in trouble, but it's not like I do crimes. I don't have to go out and do crimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:54

So I think that's one of the main misconceptions about you is that you're not just a loose canon. You're you're a human like the rest of us who's dealt with his own mental wellness stuff and and done some self-medicating along the way. I think we've all done that on some sort of scale. Um, but I'm proud of you. I mean, to go that amount of time without a drink and to do it, you know, well, not being incarcerated, right? Like because you it's still in the store. You're still at a grocery store, it's still there and and you have the ability to not do it right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:26

I'm able to, after this much time, think it through before, you know, because I have a moment of wanting to do it, it's like I don't really want to.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:35

So now that you're you've got your thumb on this and you kind of have the rest of your life ahead of you, where do you see yourself heading next? Like what's what's next for Dave?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:46

Right now, it's about solidifying what I've got, kind of taking care of things. I've sold a couple properties in the last year just because I have too much. It's like I have too much, too many things to manage. So I want to simplify my life. That's number one. But I can't. It doesn't, it isn't really number one. It's like in the always in the back of my mind, when might if I'm doing this, is it gonna make my life more complicated? Is it gonna make it harder? You know, uh, or am I gonna is it gonna contribute toward uh toward me being having a simpler life as I get older? I don't have I don't have the need or I have I I want to. See, there's part of me that always wants to do something new, you know, create something, make something happen. I just don't think I want to do that now. Um and I mean I've done that. So I I wanna I want like I want to make my relationship with my wife better. I want we have uh we just built a home on the Clackmas that is amazing. Nice. And we've got that's enough to manage right now. And then I have a place downtown. My wife and I were separated for a long time due to this all this thing. It was kind of crazy. And then I got my granddaughters and my my daughters, and you know, I I gotta be, I wanna be a better person, you know, in some ways that I haven't been in the past.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:04

And to be around, right? Like to especially with grandkids, it gives you a whole nother opportunity to leave your mark on them and to help them be better people. And I I really think the legacy, in the end, that's all you've got, you know. And your face will probably be on a bread bag for the rest of time. Yeah, the the your cartoon will outlast the human figure. But in the end, all we have is the memories that live on in our loved ones. And so the fact that you have a relationship with those people is is ever important.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:37

Yes, and it's just I'm really it's I feel so weak in that that area, and I need to I'm trying to develop that. Yeah. It's really weird. I wasn't born that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:47

Well, it's in there, it's in there somewhere though, because the fact that you want to do it means that you're capable of doing it. You know, I I could give you a long list of deadbeats who they're deadbeats because that's who they are, not because of a circumstance like mental health or drugs. It's just that's true. Yeah, exactly. Self-centered and drugs actually the sad part about drugs is they make you selfish when you didn't necessarily want to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:14

You know, because you're a slave to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:16

It's what it is. I had that first wife, and yes, great person and all that, but that was never supposed to happen. But that the daughter that was born out of that, that's a big deal, you know. Um, but I I didn't know anything else to be but selfish. I was just trying to survive in my mind. My mind, you know what I mean? I wasn't capable of helping anybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:42

So what would you say as we're kind of closing out here to somebody who is in the situation that you were in at one point where you're incarcerated, or even if you're not in jail, you're fighting uh charges with the law, you're always on probation or parole or whatever, and it feels like you can never get out of the circle, but you feel like you're capable of more. What would you say to those people?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:05

Well, uh you have to, I believe you have to be willing to do the work that it will take you to be that person that you want to make a difference being uh with yourself and in the world. If you're not trying to make a difference in the world, you know, then you're not doing nothing. You know. So uh the goal is to what can your impact be? Well, it's not gonna happen without all your effort, all the effort in the right places. And uh I was fortunate enough to go struggle enough in my life and at the age of 38 have this great epiphany that I am actually okay. I didn't think I was great, nothing special. I just thought I was okay. And that you're worthwhile. Yeah, I was worthwhile as a person. That was a huge deal. I haven't from that moment, I've never really felt down on myself. I had I had really bad moments and I I had struggled to get through and learn new lessons, but I am still uh a guy who sees himself as worthwhile.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:06

Mm-hmm. And I think that's a I think that's important for everyone to think about for themselves, too, is if you feel like you're a good person at your core, things will work out. You just gotta kind of stay the course, breathe through it, and push on.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:19

Well, and um and learn. Take up something that is uncomfortable. Do something uncomfortable to get where you want to be. Because it's if you're comfortable now, then you'll stay there.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:29

Yeah. And if you had never decided to task yourself and your brother tasking you with making that bread, there'd be a lot of people not uh not happy with their toast in the morning. So a lot of things would be different. That's right. Well, we appreciate you coming on, and I'd love to stay in touch and see where you head next. And I'm I'm rooting for you in the next phase of all this. And I hope you enjoy that new house you built and uh the grandkids, your kids, and your wife. Great meeting you, man. Good job. Thank you. meeting you. Take care.