The Winning Moments Show
The Winning Moments Show highlights student athletes, high school sports, and the moments that matter — featuring interviews, game highlights, and stories from across the Hudson Valley.
The Winning Moments Show
The Winning Moments | Season 2 Ep. 1
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Welcome back to the Winnie Moments Show. I know this week we promised you our new sports center-like view. However, because it's spring break here in Section One, there's not much sports going on, Coach.
SPEAKER_02No, most of the sports are taking place in the water, someplace south or in the Caribbean for the people in our area, uh celebrating Passover and Easter, and they're away this spring. And so I'm sure they're, you know, throwing the throwing the frisbee on the beach someplace, perhaps, and um, you know, enjoying enjoying the week off.
SPEAKER_00Right, which is a perfect time to us launch this topic. Today's gonna be an educational show. It's gonna be all about the importance now and power of social media, NIL contracts, not just for the NCAA, but for high school. And considering these kids are having the time of their life now uh in some exotic island or beach somewhere, what they're posting on social media, which didn't matter when uh I was a child, considering they didn't have social media back then, thank God, uh, but matters now. Matters now for a lot of reasons, even if you're a senior and you've already committed somewhere, what you post is so important. And we're gonna take this opportunity this week, not to cover games, but to cover the change in sports, particularly high school sports. What's important for you to know as a parent, what's important for you to know as an athlete, and as a coach, what's really important for you to know because it is so powerful, the opportunity has changed to give these kids the power to kind of dictate a little bit of where they can go. Can they make money? How does this work? And some of it's gonna be good. And like you know, coach, when you give someone power, they can use it for good, they can use it for evil. Absolutely. Either way, the world has changed and we have to change with it.
SPEAKER_02And and the other reason we're doing this today is also to give our parents and our players in Section One a realistic view of what the landscape of college recruiting is and how very difficult it is to get to be a collegiate athlete, to be a student athlete at the collegiate level. It's really important that we give them what the reality of this landscape is currently. And um I, you know, I I'm here to, we're here to help facilitate that. We're here to help navigate, help parents navigate it, but we're going to be realistic. And and there's a hard reality to what is currently going on um within the college recruiting landscape and the and the current situation regarding eligibility and regarding um uh the level of of play that you can get to or not get to, or what the reality is for you coming out of high school uh to be a student athlete at the college level.
SPEAKER_00And listen, I think we're gonna agree and disagree on a lot of points today because as you know, my mindset is limitless and I have zero experience of placing kids into a college. Right. Now, over the course of your career, and this hasn't even been your job, you've placed 110 kids in this area, approximately 110 kids, into a college. Yes. Not because you were asked, not because it was your job and you were doing it. No. You just naturally did it based on your 37 years of coaching, teaching, educating, and connections that she builds. Correct. So let's start back 37 years ago.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Okay. If you wanted to place a kid in college, how was that process?
SPEAKER_02First of all, we had to, we had to figure, we had to assess whether they projected to play at the collegiate level. And if it was yes, then you know, okay, great. If it was maybe, we were very honest. Maybe this is what you need to do. You do these things, you got a shot to get there. And then sometimes it was no. You know, I I I don't see it right now. Um most of the time, if it was no, it stayed no. We we all, you know, we I I've always been able to be corrected though. But uh maybes were mostly 50-50. Yeah, yes was normally 90% that they were gonna go to school. All right. So after you got a yes, what'd you do? Did you uh send a letter in the mail to the coach? Because there were no cell phones back then. So now we project them out to be at this a certain level, and at that level we attacked the schools that made sense from an academic standpoint. Were there going to be kids on campus of similar background and demographic? Excuse me. And then were they able to play basketball and be a part of that program at that institution? And then could we get them at least a roster spot? Uh have the co college coach commit to giving them a roster spot for the net for the upcoming fall as a freshman.
SPEAKER_00All right, I want to break that down a little bit. So you identify their skills. Okay, yes. Okay, John Lim, you can play uh college sports, great. What level? You can play a division two, awesome. Okay, we want to make sure that the the school has the right academic fit, so you had to research that, then the cultural fit, so I fit in, okay, and I can move forward. And is there a raw spot? So how back then, okay, pre-social media, how did you identify that? Like literally, what what did you do to find that out? GPA and SAT. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02For for academics. Then let them go take the campus visit to But did you identify the school by just using Google? Yes. Okay. I mean absolutely. Yes. Or the school pre before the phone and before uh social media, you went by what by word of mouth. You went by word of mouth, okay. But does is this the right school for your child? And and if the reputation was yes for that particular child in that particular family, then you went you went in that direction prior to prior to being able to look it up on on um on the computer or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because right now we could build a profile, the same profile you just mentioned, we can build that profile out, we can put it into uh chat GPT or a claude or Google, any of the LLMs, and in seconds, it'll identify 10 schools that we should approach. Right. So the level of research that has to be done today is if it took you a day to do it, it takes us now less than a minute to get those results. So that that's a huge time saver.
SPEAKER_02So imagine back in the day before there'd be a list of 20 schools for one kid, and we go down that list. Yes, can you play here? Yes, does it yeah, yes, academically is it fit? Yes, yes, like kids on campus that you you because you got you gotta live with the kids on campus. Right. And then yes, is it basketball? And if it was yes, we kept the school on that list of 20. If the if the 20 schools, not all 20 schools were three for three on the list, then we etched them out. And we normally ended up with eight or you know, seven or eight, maybe nine, ten schools. And then I went and I would make those calls.
SPEAKER_00Why not? Okay, so now we have seven schools that I could play for. You identify those, they're three out of three. Uh my parents agree to those there. Then you're calling the coach. Yes. Why am I not calling the coach back then?
SPEAKER_02Because uh my job, if I if you played either with me for high school or AAU, my job was to make sure that I used my reputation for assessing and evaluating players to the players, the player and the parents benefit.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So you represented me because you know coach language. Correct. So back then the idea was hey, coach knows coach language, so let the coach speak for you. Yes. Because I'm just a high school kid and I might say something wrong in that.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So we handle so I handled all the recruitment. And I even handled the recruitment upon the development and and of social media and Google and all that. I I handled that recruitment that way as well. Now, obviously, as we moved on technologically, um, I was able to send film. They could come, they were then then, you know, when we traveled, like you travel with us, the college coaches, we tell, you know, are you gonna be at Spooky Nook live period the last week in A that last weekend in April? Yes, coach. I'll come down and watch so-and-so play.
SPEAKER_00So I want to take a step back now. Now, okay, we got coach to coach language, and you're on my side of the table, representing me as a high school coach.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_00On the other side of the table, as the college coach that you talk to, right? What is the college coach looking at? When they're talking to you about me, and let's put, let's, let's fast forward to the fact that there is videos. There are highlights you can send. He has the highlights, you mailed it to him, now you're on the phone with him. What is he asking you about me in that interview to see if I'm a good fit, even though he knows I'm a good basketball player because he agreed to talk to you? Now, what's how how does that interview process or that conversation go? It goes like this.
SPEAKER_02What kind of human being is your player off the floor? Will he represent the school community and the community, the town or the it city, wherever it is? Is he going to be, is he going to act properly and be a good person and be a good role model and good example for our program, represent our program in the right manner? What's the parent dynamic? How are the parents? Are they are they do are they gonna get involved or try to interfere with am I gonna get a phone call from parents about playing time or or or uh why my son's not in a certain situation or whatever? That's second normally in in college. Um then it gets to basket, then it gets to academics. Can they do that? Yeah, of course that's why we called you to begin with. Um then it comes to basketball. So parents need to understand this. It's about your kid first, what kind of human being your kid is, how you are as parents. And and then it comes down to basketball. And then with basketball, it comes down to do they project to play at their specific position at our level? Can they guard not often has never normally it's not anything about offense because I'm calling because they already can can score the ball. I'm calling because they already are skilled. Are they can they guard at position at the position at the position they project at the college level? And then and then can are they are they gonna be physical enough, strong enough, tough enough to compete every day, grind it out, do they grind it out, do they um do they embrace the process of the grind? So I I I love this, and we're gonna take it more than just and by the way, by the way, and here's the thing for for the parents that need to understand this basketball is the easy part in college. The hard part is the conditioning with the weight training, with the stretching, with the yoga, with everything else, that's the grind. That's the grind. The basketball is the easy part. Do they embrace that grind? And can they can they do it day in and day out?
SPEAKER_00I love that you use the word grind because that's what it is. It it is today. The grind goes beyond the gym, the the workout, the the sports you want to play. It goes beyond the field. And that's part of what that I mean. Listen, that's all we're gonna talk about today is the grind and the important side. So you said something that's you said something about coach coach and coach language. You guys are trusting each other because you're both coaches. Correct. Well, today, there is no more trust versus coaches in that scenario that's needed because what a coach does, I found some interesting stats. So right now, what a coach does uh is they're scrolling through your social media, right? So the coach will scroll 90 seconds on your social media before watching any film about you, going to your point that, hey, if you're a good athlete, lacrosse, baseball, basketball, tennis, now flag, football, whatever, they already know you're a good athlete. They know you can play on the field. So the question is do you fit their program? Let me see what you're doing on social media. 73% of coaches check social media before calling or receiving a call from anyone. Now, it's so important, which it never was this way before. I would have been the keep the kids off social media when they're playing the game or after the game, keep them focused on their stuff and keep them off social media, keep them off their phones. As a student athlete today, though, you need to at least be set up on your phone. Your profile has to look right, the same as your dress has to look right. Okay? So there's a there's a, and we'll put all this inside of uh on the website and the YouTube links below, but there's a certain way that your profile needs to be set up. So when you look at the profile, it has the name, what your what your handle is, and your handle should be your name. Your name might not be available. Like John Limb's a very, very popular name, okay? I have to compete with billionaires and Nobel Peace Prize winners and doctors. Okay. There's a lot much more well-accomplished and smarter John Limbs out there than me. All right. None of them, though, get to sit here today in the studio next to Coach Ward.
SPEAKER_02We get to talk about this topic. Correct.
SPEAKER_00I'm the most blessed John Lim out there in that scenario. But now you got things like what position you play, what class you have, where are you from? Your your GPA should be on there, right? What AAU you play for? So there's so many things, little things that make such the big difference because today coaches are not talking to coaches, and not for nothing. We have so much noise, right? We haven't even gotten to the NIL side of the story, just the social media side. We have so much noise on social media and so much noise out there that you have to represent correctly. Now, I want to dial it all back, okay, to a story you told me because when we talked about coach talks to coach in the process, you told me a story about your conversation to get yourself a job, to get interviewed, right, to go learn behind a world-famous basketball coach by the name of Bob Hurley. Sr. Bob Hurley Sr. Bob Hurley Sr. Well, I guess it's the original Bob Hurley. The OG Bob Hurley. He's the OG, absolutely. Whose son right now is is has to be ecstatic with that bonehead play that happened. I'm not even gonna talk about it because you fired up yet, okay? Yeah, yeah. All right. Absolutely. Okay. How in the world did you reach Bob Hurley? Tell the audience the story about how you reached Bob Hurley and why you wanted to reach Bob Hurley.
SPEAKER_02I wanted to be a I wanted to be the best coach I could be. I was coaching JV basketball in New Jersey. And um uh the late Rich Waynert, who's a legendary coach in Bergen County, um knew Mr. Hurley because his brother, who also passed away, Rich Waynert, had played for St. Anthony's in Jersey City. And um when I was in high school, I I they had talked about me going to St. Anthony's as a sophomore down there at um at Jersey City, but I moved back to South Carolina anyway. I um I wanted to learn how to coach. And I had a great coach at Gerald Acreage, who's a legend at Anglewood, but I'm 15, 20 minutes from St. Anthony's. So I had Mr. Waynert reach out and ask if it was well Mr. Waynert reached out to Bob Hurley about the possibility of me coming down there to to watch him have practice. This is in 1989, I'm 25 years of age, and he said, Okay, um, but you I have to talk to him first. So I went in the yellow pages. That's a that's a big old book that had um yellow pages that had residential pages. Literally had yellow pages, yellow pages, and then and he was he was the he was a probation officer for Hudson County. That was his full-time job. He retired, he was there for 30 something years, I think. And so I called him up and I said, I want to come down and watch you practice. And um, he said, This was our practice times, and at that point, um, I went down to watch him uh practice, and I it coincided with the fact that it was the first time that they won the national championship, it was 1989. Bob Hurley Jr., who had just had a great run at Arizona State, great tenure run at Arizona State, um was a senior. Dan Hurley um was a sophomore. Roderick Rhodes, first round draft pick was a sophomore. Jerry Walker, senior, Seton Hall. I mean, it was a team. Yeah, Jose Ortiz, um, who led New Jersey City University to the Final Four Division III. And um I'm I'm blanking out on a couple, but I went down there, I watched him coach. He never said a word to me, just nodded his head, and I watched him coach in structure practice. So between what I got from Bob Hurley Sr. and what I got from Gerald Acreage, it allowed me to really move forward in my coaching career and have a better understanding at 25 years of age. Right. And I had an experience that nobody else had.
SPEAKER_00You're you're a you're a a a wannabe coach at the point, at this point, right? Okay. So therefore, you reach out to the best coaches you know, right? So you can learn how to coach or anything.
SPEAKER_02He would, I mean, there's three guys three guys in the Nay Smith Basketball Hall of Fame at the high school level. Morgan Wooten, Damatha, Coach Bob Hurley Sr., St. Anthony's, Jersey City, New Jersey. I forget the, I think the other one's out west.
SPEAKER_00Now, the beauty back then was to have the yellow pages. You can actually find almost every human in America. Absolutely. Today there is no way to get direct line to an actual coach when it comes to their phone number or maybe their email address or that case. A lot of ways to find it. However, there was a direct line, okay, direct message, DM to that coach or the team on social media. Right. So now these kids, just like you, who want to be college athletes, you wanted to be a coach, you went there. These kids want to be the best athletes they can be, maybe have a future out of it, maybe just get a education.
SPEAKER_02Have a great and get another experience. We're going to talk about the percentages later.
SPEAKER_00And it's not all about the money. No. It's not all about the money, right? So now you have that. They can reach out. Now the difference is when you reached out on the phone, made that phone call, no one saw anything. Coach Coach didn't know were you wearing your uniform, were you a shirt and tie, what you should look like? He'd never seen me and talking about it. He knows nothing. He just knows how you're representing yourself with the voice and conversation, which by the way is super important. Uh, we should have student athlete public speaking courses. Uh I love when we had our interns here uh speaking here on the show, doing sports media or media in general, just learning how to talk to people, I think, is something we've lost. And schools should represent that. And who knows? Maybe we have a seminar, okay, to do that with. Interpersonal communication. Yes, because you're great at it. Okay. Our uh our other co-host who's uh enjoying Yankee opening day today with his lovely wife uh on this Friday. Okay, it's Friday when we film this. Remember, Sunday we launched and Friday we filmed. Yankee's opening day today. Opening today is joining right now. First pitch 1 o'clock, 105. Yep. So uh, but he, I mean, imagine learning from him how to speak and be a reporter.
SPEAKER_02The depth of knowledge and and and information and and resource that he provides, Kevin Devaney Jr. provides, is it would would be astoundingly beneficial to every person that he makes contact with with regard to helping uh understand social um social media, uh multimedia, uh uh any form of media he would it would be.
SPEAKER_00I mean, listen, I you think about what I love about the three of us, okay, uh, and our our fourth man, okay, like a six man award, our fourth man that that people don't don't see unless they see us live in person, is that all the People you've spoken to, all the kids you connect with, all that Kevin has done, right? Uh the largest crowd that I've ever spoken in front of is is uh three-ish or so thousand people. Um matter of fact, my my my bald moment, okay, every bald man has a bald moment. Okay, my bald moment came when I was doing a public speaking gig, and to the left and to the right, there were the hundred foot screens that you have, okay? And although I had hair, if you looked at me, the HD from the screens made it seem like I had no hair, okay? Because it went right through the thinning of my hair. And as soon as my uh my team showed me a picture, I was like, I'm not that bald. What are you guys talking about? Very soon after that, I shaved my head. But the point is, all of that beautiful being able to speak the way you did, kids need to learn how to do it today. But now when you think about social media and the DM, as soon as I DM a coach, they get to see my presence. They get to see how I set up my profile, how I look, what I'm doing on social media, what I'm putting out there. Okay. Not just my highlights and my basketball skills or my lacrosse skills, like you said.
SPEAKER_02Here's what they're looking at. And this will get you unrecruited faster than anything else. They go through your profile, and there's stuff on there where you've got a red solo cup in your hand.
SPEAKER_00Red solo cups.
SPEAKER_02Where you um are perhaps enjoying life a little bit more than you, you're posting what you're you're enjoying your life probably a little bit more than you should on social media. Um and putting yourself in a position where you you can be questioned about your character as a as a as a um as a as a pr prospective student athlete for that institution, you're done. You're done. It's next, it's next. I'm saying it now. I completely agree with you. I completely agree. So don't have a red solo cup in your hand.
SPEAKER_00Don't even be around a red solo cup.
SPEAKER_02Correct. It don't have to be in your hand. If you're around people and there's four of them with a red solo cup and you don't have a red solo cup in your hand, that's not going to cut it. Guilty by association. Correct. You know, you go to a concert. Take the picture of you going to the concert and enjoying a concert, you know, that's fine. But acting crazy at the concert in the mosh pit and having people video you in the mosh pit in the concert. Have your private moments. Have your private moments. Your private moments are your private moments. Yes. Don't put your private moments on here. Because if a college coach sees that, you're done. Because here's a word, here's a phrase now that makes more sense than ever before. And coaches are getting fired left and right for this. A coach can get fired for a lack of institutional control over their program. Translation, translation, translation is this. My I can't control the kids in my program. I let them do whatever they want, whenever they want to do it. They're not representative of the school. They're always in trouble. They're not going to class, they're not doing whatever. And guess what? They're not uh uh you know adhering to the uh policies of the athletic department or the school itself.
SPEAKER_00He's getting fired. And they find all that out on social media, by the way. They don't need investigators anymore. You're putting it out there. And I also want to say like this is not just about student athletes, because if you're not a student athlete, what do you think your employer is going to look at? Right? It is so important now for these young kids who are who are growing up now, growing up at the start of social media from their high school side, have it. You need to represent yourself incredibly well. According to here, we're gonna go with uh, we're gonna use Claude as our LLM today, or our large language model, okay, otherwise known as AI. But according to this, the content mixed for an athlete in high school, 40% should be athletic content, highlights training game day. 25% personality content. Who are you off the field? What are your interests? What's your family like? What are you doing from volunteering and things like that? 20% is your journey content. Okay. The process, not just the results. Your order early morning workouts. Maybe it's your protein shakes, maybe it's what you do before school, okay? How you're grinding through losing streaks, all right? How this builds a loyal audience with other people. 10% community content. Give back mentoring in school. What do you do for others that are not just for yourself and being so selfish? And then 5% of strategic engagement, recruiting signals, repost the school's highlights, like and comment on a coach post. This is that 5% is what some of the athletes that we've talked to that have been on the show, like Kendall, that 5% is what they do on their reach out. Okay, if you know you want to go to these five schools, start liking their posts, start engaging with them, start asking questions to the coach. Hey, how'd you pull this off? Or how'd you handle this? Because now they know that you care about them and their school as much as you care about yourself. This mix is not a difficult thing to do. No, just I feel that the majority of kids, we got to speak to hundreds of kids throughout this launch of the winning moments. I might know two kids that even know this formula exists, and maybe one kid who follows this formula, okay? Um it's so important. And I think even if you're a parent right now watching this or a kid saying, you know what, I'm a freshman or I'm a sophomore or I'm whatever, and I'm not gonna play college ball. If you're gonna play sports, then put yourself out there. One, don't think that you're not gonna do something because anything's possible. Correct. Number two, make it and align it beautifully, just like you would do your uniform, because if you end up not playing college sports, you still are gonna end up going to college, maybe, or end up with a job. Hopefully, they're going to look at this.
SPEAKER_02I've got so so I'm gonna go away from athletics for one second. This is a this is a great story. There's a young man that uh that was in our that had been in our program forever named Michael Wagner. Michael Wagner went to Fordham Prep. Michael Wagner tells a story of his friend who was a brilliant student in college, went and did every internship. He was brilliant financial, you know, just a genius financially. Um had had all the internships with all the major corporation financial, I don't know, name a couple. Give me give me somebody.
SPEAKER_00Goldman Sachs.
SPEAKER_02Goldman Sachs, yeah, like in that Morgan Stanley. All that, okay. The kid was going to what all he had was a formal, a formality interview with one of those institutions. They were gonna start him at one out of college at $150,000 a year. What year is this? This was only six years ago.
SPEAKER_00Okay. That's that that that's like getting $250,000 right now out of college. The equivalent of the money.
SPEAKER_02He takes this phone and he puts something on his personal social page, on his on his um, you know, his general like the public, the put what's it called? The public social you can have a private or public page. Yeah, on his public page.
SPEAKER_00Which it's all public, by the way.
SPEAKER_02That was that was beyond inappropriate. Beyond. At a scale like, what are you doing? What happened next? He walks into the formality interview. They hold up the phone. Is this you? Yes, it is. Gone. Done. The $150,000 job, uh, dollar, $150,000 a year job out the door. Guess what else?
SPEAKER_00Which he would have probably made a million and change in his first second year, because that's the one of those kind of jobs do. So it's a million dollar job.
SPEAKER_02It gets better. He's not in New York City now. He works for a financial institution in Delaware.
SPEAKER_00He leaves the Mecca, the Mecca of financial institutions, the role of the institution.
SPEAKER_02And had to go to like a small boutique firm because no one in New York would touch him. And he still has not recovered from that moment where he put that on his phone.
SPEAKER_00I think if you relate it to sports, for everyone that's listening, it's like you're about to go pro first round draft pick in whatever sports you're going to. Absolutely. Now all of a sudden you are down to coaching eighth grade AAU. That's the downgrade we're talking about. Absolutely. Okay. Like you're not even in high school. You're below high school. Eighth grade AAU is what you got to rebuild yourself because New York financial is the the basically the first round draft pick of any pro sport that you could think of. Imagine? That's there. He had it made. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Was gonna like probably by 42, he was gonna retire. He'd do 20 years in New York financial uh uh industry in the market, whatever, and then he'd be done by 42, 45, have millions of dollars, and then be, you know, do whatever he wanted the rest of his life. Not the case now. Okay, so so it is so I did my my point is that this is more than just being a student athlete. This can affect your life. I've got my I and I'm gonna say this. My 22-year-old son has, I know it's not a lot of followers, but he's got 3,000 followers. That's a lot. Uh uh and so, and I tell him all the time, you're 22, I get it, you know, you're you're but still, you've got professional uh, because you're overseas, you've got professional coaches looking at your social media. You got young people who follow you, a thousand to 1,500, 2,000 of them, probably young kids from our our area that come to our camp. You've got to maintain a certain social presence as well. I and I'm on my own son about this. That's how strongly I am with and my daughter, same thing. You know, you you you you're not you our as parents, we've got to make sure that our kids don't that they think before they post, that they take a breath and don't do something impulsive that could create a situation that would be a per that would permanently damage their opportunities in life.
SPEAKER_00Now listen, I agree with you. As a parent, it's our responsibility to teach them right or wrong, teach them what to do, not to harm themselves, and protect them in a way that sets them up for a great life. But I'm talking about not doing something stupid because that it's a level of parenting that's it, right? Or posting it. I'm talking about just simply the basics, just setting it up. Like right now, and we'll we'll we'll put the examples of the profiles that we build out for kids. But right now, I think what should be happening, what coaches should be teaching from AAU to high school, what athletic directors could be putting together, what schools could be doing is a curriculum that has, hey, here's what your profile should look like. Before you post a thing, here's your profile to look like, right? Here's how you set it up, and we'll help you set it up. Right? We'll give this information away for free on our side. We'll show you how to set it up. I think it's brilliant. But this is it should be this way. And and educate this. Like, listen, Instagram is is is a must-have, right? Right. For any student athlete. It's your it's your coach's number one platform for your digital resume. You know what number two is? No. Two is not something that young kids use often. Okay, young kids go next to TikTok. Number two, must-have, where coaches are there the most and athletes talk publicly is X, Formula No is Twitter. You never would have guessed X in that scenario, but X is so important. There's so many coaches. There's so many reasons. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Coaches are all over X. That's where they live. Yeah. I live on X with regard to coaching.
SPEAKER_00So you need to make sure that you're the proper profile setup for Instagram and then X, because they're two completely different experiences. They are.
SPEAKER_02They are two different experiences. The X for me is my coach's clinic. I don't get a chance to go to coach's clinics. So if Fred Hoyberg has an aftertimeout um play that I really, really like, normally it's posted on X. So guess what? I take Fred Hoyberg's aftertimeout play, and I'm going to use it in our system because it fits our personnel. We can run that particular uh set. I like how you're getting your sets and plays off. No, I mean, and then and but but but you have to you have to tailor it for who you you know your personnel. Not everybody can run that. There's some things that I see online I love. Like John Calperry runs a lob play for a dunk. I don't have anybody that dunks, and we ain't gonna run no lob play. So, so and that's great, but if you do, you've got that. Right, right. So um, so like X is a really, really important thing for our kids to have because the coaches and be able to post on X because coaches are all over X.
SPEAKER_00Now think about posting on X is you know how to you need to know how to speak because X is more about writing plus video, where Instagram is more about video and very little writing. So you have to be able to handle that. And I think I can't stress if you're a parent or you're you're an athlete or you're a student, coaches, the coaches that I've met that want to build these kids and not just win the game or or that case, the ones who build the winning moments off the uh field and gym and so forth, and and it's basically every coach I've I've got to meet this season. There are ways that that you should help these kids set it up.
SPEAKER_02Uh and again, we'll we'll we'll help you I think it's throwing it to the I I I I don't understand, and and listen, because I don't think in that realm, I you know, I'm getting towards the end of this. So I don't think in that realm.
SPEAKER_00Closer, we got another 20 minutes left of the show. The end of what? What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02No, I'm talking about no, but I but I think it's great because there's no format. Like they should when a kid walks into your gym, right? Uh walks into your school as a ninth grader and he's a prospective student athlete, you should take him through the social. There should be a social media seminar. There should be a social media sit-down with prospective parents and kids together to structure the social media content. And we'll send your profile right there in this box. I think it's one hour. I think it's brilliant. I think it should, I think it should be required, mandated, required, whatever term you want to use, across the board. Not only section one, but nationally.
SPEAKER_00Everyone. Everyone. Everyone. It's it's a big topic. It's a big topic for me because you know, I I understand the the industry, I understand the social media aspect, I understand the marketing, I understand that perception is reality. Yeah. Uh obviously we're we're we everything that we're building at the winning moments is to help these kids. You know, we have our fundraising platform so we can raise more money for them. We have our interactive swag so they can relive the moments. And to me, this this how to communicate in general is very important. And it's another way for us to give back. Correct. How to present yourself on social media, which again, when my son started four years ago, it didn't matter. No, it didn't. Because within the last four within the last four years, it has it has changed exponentially. Well, let's talk about it. Let's talk about why it's changed. So, what's happened, what's happened since 2021, right? Since 2021, which is right at the tail, or we're in the middle or tail, depending on what time of 2020 we're talking about, we're in the tail of the middle of COVID. Right. Okay. So now everybody's home, all right, doing their thing. And what's happening? The business world starts to change of sports. Nil is introduced in 2021 for college. Okay. So now these kids can get a chance.
SPEAKER_02But not let's let's cut where one real quick. Let me interject this. NIL at that time is not what NIL is now. Nope. So NIL at that time was your jersey. Name, image, and likeness you could get paid for. Yep. Nothing else.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_02So, you know, if you put your face on the front of a McDonald's, you got paid for that. Bookstore sold your jersey, you got paid for that. Uh, your likeness, um, uh whatever, uh silhouette of you uh at the gym or you know, where at wherever the place that you're gonna uh do your public um where you go a public, you know, public um what's it called?
SPEAKER_00To go work out?
SPEAKER_02No, like public appearance.
SPEAKER_00Public appearance, like your likeness for your public appearance, you got paid for that. You show up at the coffee shop. Correct. Correct, and everything else was a violation, and you could actually back then you could lose your scholarship real quick, which then kills your name, image, likeness. Correct. Because you need the institution like everyone else. Absolutely, right? You know, uh offensive linemen, okay, in football, you don't see their face in football. Okay, so so they don't they don't get many of the deals. Now, with their social media presence and so forth, they become more popular. All right, because because now, unlike basketball, where they're they're playing and you see them, you can see their face. When you see them on the street, you know it's that person. It's hard to know the offensive lineman for the New York Giants when you see them on the street back then because there was no name, image, likeness to put out there. So 2021, we got the NCAA says, okay, these kids can start making money. We're gonna regulate it and control it, but they can start making money with their name, image likeness. Okay. Yep. Then you have the the explosion of the transfer portal. Okay. Pandora's box. Explosion of the pan explosion of that case. And the transfer portal and the explosion of that also then opened it up to now across all sports, virtually all sports, you could have professional athletes. So if you played Pro Ball in Europe, you can now come back to college. If you played Pro Ball in America, okay, we talked about that on one of the shows in the basketball sector at least, in the G League, you can go back to college. Right? As long as you have your eligibility.
SPEAKER_02They they they struck so they struck Bettyako down from Alabama. They struck somebody else down the other day. So the the the the jury's out. Right now, technically you could, yep, but the last two court cases have set stated otherwise. Right. But if until they get to the United States Supreme Court, then this is gonna keep going on and on.
SPEAKER_00Correct. Okay. And just like time moves, every minute of the day moves, money still moves, and you have that case. So now they changed, right? College sports, which made the high school sports and the recruiting, which basically for high school kids to get paid, when we were kids, for us to consider to be the first level I always said of professional athletes, is that I come out of high school and some college gave me a scholarship. So they paid me to be there. That's my first level of getting paid for my athletic ability in that scenario. Okay, great. Now, 45 states, 45 states, okay, plus DC permits NIL for high school kids. Okay, the only states right now that is banned in, it's banned in Alabama, it's banned in Hawaii, uh, it's very limited in uh Arkansas, banned in Michigan, banned in Indiana, banned in Mississippi. In Texas, you got to be 17 years and older. You have to be senior. Yep. South Carolina, if you are, and they just changed in 2025, but if you were, it was banned in public schools. They brought it back in 2025. Right. They actually have NIL clubs in public schools. And if you're in the private school, you could have NIL as long as it wasn't associated with the school itself. Correct. Okay.
SPEAKER_02South Carolina is a very unique situation.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, considering they they they gave us you, they are a very unique situation. You're a very you're very unique, very unique person, coach. Okay, so there's something down there in the water then.
SPEAKER_02But I yeah, I'm gonna I want to comment on on um Alabama and and Ark in Arkansas and Michigan and Indiana and Mississippi, okay. With regard to Alabama, Mississippi, um, and Arkansas and Michigan, because those places are such football-oriented places, what the it would be absolutely it would be chaos. And in Hawaii too. Hawaii people don't understand how good Hawaii football is in Hawaii. They it would be chaos and corruption in those states regarding kids moving from one school to the other, and it would create a real problem. Because people down south in the deep south and in Hawaii treat their high school football very seriously to the point where Friday night lights. For the Friday night lights where the state of Hawaii's state playoff games outdraw the University of Hawaii football team. Not and not by a little, by a lot. Where it where the stadium in Honolulu, the old stadium they played in, would draw 45,000 to 50,000 for the high school football game between, let's say, St. Louis out of Hon uh out of Honolulu versus um Kamehameha or the public school. It's it's so this place, I understand why they ban it in those places because down south.
SPEAKER_00Hold on, though, hold on, coach, because you bring up a very, very good point. Let me let me tell you which sports right now dominate NIL when it comes to uh this football, quarterbacks, particularly quarterbacks, okay, is number one. Men's basketball, number two, rising extremely fast and in popularity, the fastest rising one is women's basketball. Then football is skill positions, right? So your wide receivers, your running backs, those skill positions. Then, then, I couldn't even believe this was on the list. All right, here's my ignorance. Then gymnastics. Okay, gymnastics, gymnastics before baseball, which is growing. Track and field, growing. Soccer and volleyball, okay. Soccer and volleyball is is both niche and rising extremely fast.
SPEAKER_02So gymnastics I can speak on because the Southeastern Conference is the strongest gymnastics conference in the country. And if you go to a gymnastics meeting, I know you're, I know. See, this is where this is where everybody starts to. I told you I watched it. I watch I watch every sport. I watch, and you go to Athens, Georgia on a Friday night and they're going up against LSU, or LSU's going up against Alabama. They can't stand each other in gymnastics. There's 20,000 people in the arena. 20,000. Like it's an Olympic, like it's the, you know, it's it's the Olympics.
SPEAKER_00And coach.
SPEAKER_02And that's why, and that's why the money's there.
SPEAKER_00Right. So we have 20,000 people during that during that competition, they're selling food. They're selling swag.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02That's a huge money maker. Apparel, uh, uh uh concessions, apparel, the whole nine yards. Yep. And normally it's a two-day event. So forget about it. I mean, it's it's just it's chaos. And and gymnastics at the NCAA level. Not only that, on the on the men's side too, division one men and division uh one women, it the place is packed.
SPEAKER_00So how do you feel about high school kids being able to get paid for their name, image, likeness? Um Coach He had to reach up to the Lord of a ball to get to get the mercy and the patience.
SPEAKER_02So high school kids. My my issue with the high school kids is who's involved with them. Is it just the parents? Is it um is it the street agent, this the manager? Um you know who's involved and then where's the money gonna go? I don't mind a kid getting paid. I prefer that it goes to a trust. If they're gonna get paid, put in a trust. They can't touch it till they're 22, or they if they're in a financially dire strait, their family's really in a bad situation, because a lot of times that's the case, yeah, then they can take X amount for themselves to help their families, put that rest away someplace where they have it later on and build on it where they where they're gonna be okay. Listen. Should it be the coach that's involved in it?
SPEAKER_00Should the school have a step in area?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I think the coach and the AD should be involved in it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I think that already show listen, we know we know that I think most favoritism in in all aspects of the So I will I will speak on this personally.
SPEAKER_02My college roommate Lee Sarter, head coach at Spartanburg Day Academy, Spartanburg Day School, coached a guy named Zion Williamson.
SPEAKER_00Famous for breaking his shoe.
SPEAKER_02My college roommate, my college roommate who I'm very close to to this day, um, who just took his team high point academy to two back-to-back double-A state championships. He he didn't win them, but he he's been to the finals twice. Brand new school out of Spartanburg, um coached Zion in high school. We all know, and this is before 2021, we all know that Zion, he then and Lee never said this, so coach, I'm telling you this now, coach, because he watches the show. Coach never got involved in this. It was handled by Zion's um stepfather, who was basically his father took raised him, Mr. Anderson, and um he handled all that. My roommate should have handled it. Because now he should, he was well back in if it was now, he would handle it. Because my roommate didn't take a dime from a soul, and he was offered six figures by certain institutions in this country prior to NIL didn't take a dime. To have Zion go play for them, correct. And he was offered well well above well into high school. So would I like for a kid now to have somebody like Lee Sarder handle the NIL for the family and because I know that it's gonna be done the right way? Absolutely. But here's the thing sometimes the coaches aren't always like Lee Sarder. Sometimes the ADs aren't always like ADs that are above board like Chris Drasopoulis at Briarcliffe. So you got to be careful. I normally they are slope. Is it dangerous? No, normally they are. Normally they are. I like to see it go through the high school program in the administration, sure. And then the parents. Nobody else should be involved. Right. Unless it's a special circumstance.
SPEAKER_00And listen, though those are only very large deals, right? I mean, listen, there they're there's only a handful of zions, okay? That exist on an annual basis.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's the reality of the situation. And and but everybody thinks that, you know, if you're gonna go to a big school and you're and you've done well at a big school, they say, well, if he did well at this school, at a big school, my son's just it doesn't work like that. Every situation is different.
SPEAKER_00Well, let's go with the smaller side. Listen, uh, for your child in Westchester County, um, because it's a little different in New York. So minimum wage in New York State is $16 an hour. In Westchester, New York City, and a few other places, it's $17 an hour. Okay. You hire kids for for your summer camp at Chris Ward basketball, uh, Westchester's number one basketball camp. Uh my opinion is New York State's number one basketball camp, but I'll limit it to Westchester for now. Um basketball camp, okay, that my all my kids have have gone to and and learned a lot from, not just basketball. But you employ the kids, 17 bucks an hour, you have to pay them. Okay. The reason that social media is so important and these NIL conversations are so important, are not for the bigger kids, to your point, where the street hustles are coming on and everybody wants a peace so that they're but also for local businesses who can't afford huge corporate deals. So not talking about Nike and Adidas and so forth, right? But there are local businesses like a deli who gives the uh AS Delhi in Port Chester, which I love, gives Blindbrook uh money when they the teams are raising money for the banner that's up there to support that local business. And I'm not sure what it costs, maybe it's 500 bucks for the season or wherever they donate. Now, that scenario can really help a local business. So when you think about some kids, that if there's social media, which needs to reach, I think approximately a minimum of 500 followers, if the kids were allowed to post, I get my sandwich pre-game at AS Delhi. Yeah. Okay. And these kids can receive a job like minimum wage. If there was a structure that aligned up that for them, it'd be great if a kid can receive a couple of hundred bucks for the entire season to build these posts out. It's not just great for the kid who's making his $17 an hour scenario. It's not just great for the local business who can now get a larger reach than the limited banner that's on the fence that is just awareness for one day a week when there's a game. So I think there's a positive opportunity if structured correctly, correct, if taught correctly, if set up correctly, where you can maybe have maybe it's a portal, maybe it's a portal where you have that people can come into and say, hey, what's the opportunities? My team has 10 kids. We have approximately 7,000 followers, okay? And my team would love to help the local business do the following. And these kids, whether it's credit, whether it's getting paid free food or $17 an hour, they have to work for it. It's not a give me, they have to make the right post. And here's what you do to follow it. They're basically building a commercial and leveraging their audience to do so. So I think NIL, which all we just talked about, the bigger ones, right? Your Zions and so forth, and million dollars and six-figure contracts. I think there's a three-figure contract, there's a four-figure contract. I agree. That would be so beneficial for these kids.
SPEAKER_02So there are kids right now in division three that have gone out and done that. And division three student athletes that have gone out to businesses or or they use a certain product and they're well known in the community and their in the college. Listen, what if Henry Shoemaker and Carson Miller at Rye?
SPEAKER_00Shoe Miller.
SPEAKER_02Shoe Miller, if those two kids wanted to post whatever the big places that they go to in Rye for their set, because there's a lot of places in Rye, right? A lot of restaurants, a lot of delis, whatever. Yep, if they went out and did that, they get paid. They get paid. Anthony Ficarata and Adobe Sferry. Okay. Um uh Kendall Konisberg and and Rybrook. I mean, yeah, there's opportunity for for them to do that and and and and could really market themselves that way. And that starts in high school, and then they move on to college, and then you you you you know, you parlay that. So yeah, I think there it's that's starting to happen. Um you know, I think that's a I think it's a great way to go. I think it's the way that you should go. And you that's how you monetize your situation.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yeah, and listen, I and again, it's it's about education. It's not about getting lost in the fact that I'm a thousand point scorer and you should give me a thousand bucks or two thousand bucks. No. Everything in life is about value. When you can take a job, when I go work at your camp, I'm providing a value to you of me being there, and you're appreciating that value by giving me money. Okay, that's how you can reciprocate the value in the business side. Uh, and we have an equal exchange. I show up on time, I do my job, I do it well, great, and no problem. So I'm not looking at it where it's like a free lunch for these kids. No. I'm looking at it like, hey, what if we set up a system where they can have this opportunity? Look, learn how to speak, learn how to put yourself out there, learn how to have your proper social media presence, not just for recruiting, but for the ability to have a part-time job while in high school. Okay. And also you're helping local businesses out. It's not just about the kids. There are so many local businesses that can use the help of all the people. High school is a community. It was interesting. We have a uh inside of our studio, there's another podcast studio um that we have, and we have guests coming and people doing all different things. And yesterday, uh a woman came in and she was uh talking about you know where she's from. And she currently lives in Rye. Okay. So Claudio, our executive producer, is a very strong, well-known athlete from Harrison. Harrison and Rye, oil and vinegar, rivals, right? Yep. So he naturally says, uh, hey, did you grow up in Rye? Now. Okay. But you're from Rye now. Yeah, yeah. So Rye's her community.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Okay, she's not an alumni of Rye. Very, very rarely is there an alumni of a high school, right? Because the community is there. You don't usually live in the same place that you went to high school, very rarely. No. Now, she goes to, she, all her kids are in Rye. Okay, Rye is her community, Rye is her school district, and all of that nature. High school has communities. Communities are basically built off the backbone of people coming together. Correct. Local businesses. And just imagine if that community can come together. One, if you leverage community, you can raise more money for the school. Two, you leverage community, you can build a better community in that same spirit, and help raise the the financial earnings of the other business in that community. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02If we can home that you boost business for the for the local community, local commerce.
SPEAKER_00It's a win-win-win win all around, all we need to do is have a structure, some education, and probably a place for this to be facilitated. And I think it's a huge opportunity. Matter of fact, I would love to hear from all the high school kids. You can DM us, you could, you could email us uh at show at the winning moments.com and tell us your opinion, tell us what you would what you would do, what you would like to see have happen, and what you could use help on. Okay, any student reaches out to us who needs help with their social media, I will donate as much time as as I can to you to help you set it up, help give you the roadmap, and get yourself on the right path, at least for success, period. And if you happen to be able to play college sports for it, it's more rewarding for us. Absolutely. And I would love to do that.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I'm gonna uh so I don't know if I some of our some of our viewership may have seen this already. You know, Pat Masteroni was on with Kevin Devaney on his show, and he talked about he's Pat is at a different place with with this. He's he's years ahead of most of us regarding not ahead of you, but ahead of coaches regarding NIL and and the um and the benefits and and and and how you can use it to benefit the kids and all that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, he's at the forefront. Yeah, he's at the forefront.
SPEAKER_02I mean he's he's at the forefront. He's he's right there and and he really has a real grasp of this whole thing. I'm watching local cable, I'm watching, you know, whatever, yes, whatever, ESPN, whatever. And I see Josiah Jervis doing the Mariano Rivera Toyota commercial. Have you seen this show? I've seen it, I've seen it. Now, and he and they talk about Josiah Jervis and and and you know, Stepinac, you know, mention him, and this is where I come from my car and the whole thing. And I go, my goodness. I don't know what the agreement is. I don't know if the agreement was because he was the MVP of the CHS A that he got to drive off with that Toyota on the show. I mean, on the commercial, I don't off the lot. I don't know what it is, but I can promise you it was beneficial to Mariana Rivera Toyota.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02And it was prop and it was um beneficial and profitable for Josiah Jervis and bring Stepanak basketball and Stephen Stepanak basketball and the community and the institution itself. Yeah so I don't know what the I have no idea what the financial agreement was, compensation, whatever it was, but there you go.
SPEAKER_00I honestly don't think it matters what the compensation was. I think what you just said is really what's at the heart of the conversation is hey, I'm doing something good for my community. Correct. Okay. I'm getting paid for what I'm doing. Okay, great. And I represent and help build the school, the brand that has given me this opportunity. He earned the opportunity with his play. Absolutely. He earned it with his his his uh statue and and who he is as a human and as a man. Absolutely. Then he got the opportunity to showcase that to the world by playing for Pat and Stepanek basketball, which he then further had to earn it again. We talked, we started off this show with the word grind. Grind is about earning. Okay, there's no other way. Grind, grind, grind. That young man earned it, but he didn't earn it by himself. No, he didn't. Stepanek, okay, and Pat, Pat earned, okay, the power of all that he has right now and all of his influence and Stepanek basketball because he is a grinder. Yes, he is. Okay. You can talk to Pat. What I love about Pat is it's it's at his showcase. It's in the middle of it all, okay? He's got so many things going on because he's not just the host of the showcase. Correct. He's not just handling alumni, he's not just uh uh handling anything that the county center asks him to do. He's also handling being the head coach of a number one basketball team in the country. Okay.
SPEAKER_02One of the top teams in the country.
SPEAKER_00In the beginning of the season, number one or number one, top top season. And I you could grab Pat at any one of those moments and ask him a question. Hey Pat, man, how'd you feel about this? And he talks to you as if we're just we're outside on a Sunday with nothing going on. Right. And he's so approachable in his way, like he's earned that through his grind. But but think about this.
SPEAKER_02Think about this. Right before he got on the floor to play Iona prep and the slam dunk, what was he doing? He was on the phone, approachable, taking phone calls before they got on the phone, before they got on the floor. Right. So it's 24-7. And and people need to understand that. Whether you're a coach or a player is 24-7. And for Josiah Jervis, he earned this. He earned that uh opportunity. Now, uh listen, he's also been blessed. Six foot six, athletic, strong, tough, skilled, you know, talented naturally. Right smart, but there's but but there's but the exactly and well spoken. But he but there's a lot of kids out there that are six, six, you know, they're six six athletic, talented. Not everybody is Josiah Jervis because of what? The grind. He's earned being the McDonald's all-American. He's earned the opportunity to go play for Tom Mizzo at Michigan State. He's earned a chance to be in a commercial at Mariana Rivera Toyota and Pat to facilitate that for him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, listen, Pat Pat's program is a good thing. Both on and off the court. 100%. His his program is one to model. Um but that button. But I can tell you what he does.
SPEAKER_02But but let me say this to you. We've got public high school coaches in our area. If they have a kid that that is that is front and center, or two or three kids that are front and center, like um down the road, if there's another Burrell and there's another Plunkett, do you think that Coach Carver, when this, when this all hits developmentally, uh, you know, the whole process of this, do you not think that they're gonna use uh Burrell and Plunkett differently as far as off the floor goes? Marketing? Of course they are. But we just haven't gotten there yet. But it's gonna, it will come. And and I'm not, I'm not um putting, you know, I'm not throwing shade on anybody. It'd be the same thing with me if I had plunkett or Burrell instead of Ty. You know, I wouldn't know what to do right now. But probably two years from now, three years from now, oh, these two kids go where? Okay, let's see what what we can do with regard to what piece of place in Mamerick. Yep. The barbecue place in Momerick everybody goes to. The um the marinak's got a lot of great words. Yeah, but I'm saying, but but but we're not there yet, but we're gonna be there shortly. And I think once our Section One coaches and administrators uh have a player or players or a group or a team that's special that way, market them to benefit your your program and to benefit the community and the players.
SPEAKER_00Listen, I I'll I'll give all of you guys the roadmap. I mean, I'll literally give you guys all the stuff that we have here.
SPEAKER_02I think it's I think for I think for you to do this, John. I think John Lim, for you to do this and to give our our people in Section One this platform, that I they should jump on it. They should uh uh our ADs and our coaches should jump on it. And not just football, basketball, but every sport. Yeah, every sport. Scarsdale girls uh flag football is a dynasty right now. Dynasty. I love it. I'm so loving it. Yeah. And so, and so, you know, those young ladies, smart, tough, talented, great personalities. They're five. I don't know. Is it I don't know who the girls' football coach is, the seven, you know, the flag football coach is over there. But I mean, market that. They've been the state champs back to back years. Probably going to have a chance to go to third. We're going to talk about all that next week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But but but there's there's a team that you can market in the community. And the community will get behind you. Absolutely. Every community will get behind their school, particularly in section one because they see the value of it.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep. Well, listen, that's uh we we we've covered a lot on the show. We have. All right. We're uh we're out of time at this moment. Um but having your perspective, plus I love the Bobby Hurley yellow pages story. Uh having your perspective is uh very helpful coaching and getting kids in the college. Um and the fact that you've been doing it before there were even like uh uh phones.
SPEAKER_02No, uh yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Thomas Edison, you know, put the one up here.
SPEAKER_00Photograph, the one here, yeah, talking like this. Yes, absolutely. I love it. Uh listen, everybody, thank you guys for joining us. We really appreciate it. Uh, we're really excited about next week and our our sports center format. Again, uploading your stats to Section One's website, uh section oneathletics.org. We'd be very helpful. We get a lot of information from there. Sending it to us directly, uh, the winning moments. You can go to the winning moments.com and there's a place for you to upload just your box score, or you can upload highlights, parents, kids, you name it, and we'll be able to get that on here. Please share this podcast with everybody you can. The more followers we get, the more exposure we can give you. That's what our mission is. Like and subscribe. Join us next time on the Winnie Moments show.