Just Rest: Burnout Tips for Everyday Radicals
Just Rest: Burnout Tips for Everyday Radicals, hosted by Nicole Havelka, helps everyday radicals and world-changers who are tired, but not giving up to find connection, support, and soul-deep inspiration to keep resisting grind culture while staying true to their values.
Nicole Havelka is a burnout survivor, ordained pastor, yoga teacher, and founder of Defy the Trend. She spent years trying to change the world by working harder, staying later, doing more, but realized that real change doesn't come from depletion—it comes from deep, aligned, joyful living. Now, she coaches others to make rest a non-negotiable part of their resistance. Every week, you'll hear honest, unfiltered conversations about what it takes to build differently and rest radically. Episodes talk about resistance, spiritual practice, failure, boundary-setting, burnout, recovery, and the sacred power of saying, “no more".
Just Rest: Burnout Tips for Everyday Radicals
Grounding Reproductive Justice in Rest: Mutual Aid, Reproductive Freedom and Faith with Elaina Ramsey
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What does faith have to do with reproductive justice — and what does either have to do with rest? Everything, it turns out. Nicole sits down with Elaina Ramsey, Executive Director of FaithChoice Ohio, an organization that elevates the moral power of faith communities for abortion justice and reproductive freedom in Ohio and beyond. Elaina shares her journey from fundamentalist evangelical to pro-faith, pro-choice advocate, and how that transformation shaped her understanding of bodily autonomy, mutual aid, and rest as a deeply spiritual practice. Whether you're navigating burnout in movement work or simply trying to stay human while doing hard things in the world, this episode is for you.
In this episode you'll hear:
- Elaina's journey from fundamentalist evangelical to pro-choice Christian reproductive justice advocate
- How a traumatic experience in college cracked open her thinking about bodily autonomy and led her to this work
- The difference between reproductive health care, reproductive rights and the broader reproductive justice framework — and why it matters
- How FaithChoice Ohio builds rest, grief and mutual aid into their organizational culture as a lived value
- Giving practical support for people accessing abortion care in Ohio including through the Jubilee Fund
- A "Dear Rest Rebels" message: what you freely give others — permission to rest, grieve and be human — is also a gift you can give yourself
Chapters List
00:00 Introduction to Change Makers and Rest
03:25 Time for a Deep Breath
04:33 Elaina's Journey from Evangelicalism to Advocacy
10:45 Outgrowing Evangelicalism is a lot like Burning Out
12:28 The Shift to Reproductive Justice
18:30 Christian Grounding for Rest
23:20 Grief, Lament, and Community Care
28:18 Creating a Culture of Rest in Organizations
31:18 Navigating Expectations in Nonprofit Work
35:01 Understanding Reproductive Justice
42:00 The Broader Implications of Reproductive Justice
44:56 Community Care and Mutual Aid
51:18 Empowering Rest and Self-Care
51:42 Dear Rest Rebels
53:33 Support FaithChoice Ohio
57:18 How to Find FaithChoice Ohio
CONNECT WITH ELAINA RAMSEY & FAITHCHOICE OHIO
- Website: faithchoiceohio.org
- Instagram: @FaithChoiceOhio
- Facebook: @FaithChoiceOhio
- Podcast: R-Soul https://www.faithchoiceohio.org/podcast
CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA:
The Calm Calendar Club is a brain-friendly planning community for neurodivergent adults, ADHD minds, and sandwich-generation caregivers who are tired of systems that don’t fit real life. We help you build a flexible, values-based calendar that reduces chaos and protects your energy. This low-cost, community-based program is ready for you at defythetrend.com/calm-calendar.
Thank you to the people who helped make this show happen.
Send me a message via Speakpipe.
A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective.
Introduction to Change Makers and Rest
SPEAKER_00And so when I think of rest and when I think about like the things that I want to do and need to do, I always try to look at it through that lens of like, am I doing this for the sake of it, for you know, just to perform? And I'm like, no, if it's not enlivening, if it is not building community, um, it's serving me as created being, then I don't want to do it. And so then it helps me, gives me permission to rest.
How to Find FaithChoice Ohio
Time for a Deep Breath
SPEAKER_03Welcome to Just Rest, burnout tips for everyday radicals who are tired but not giving up. I'm your host, Nicole Havelka, bringing you tips and inspiration to help you feel seen and supported on your radical rest journey. Let's go. Hey, Rest Rebels. This is Nicole Havelka, your host of Just Rest, Burnout Tips for Everyday Radicals, where we talk to change makers who are making their way in the world and they may be tired, but they're not giving up. And I have the pleasure of talking to one of those change makers today that I have admired for a really long time and the work that she and her organization, which we'll get to tell you more about very soon, do in the world. I have with us Elena Ramsey. And Elena is the executive director of Faith Choice Ohio. And Faith Choice Ohio elevates the moral power of faith communities for abortion justice and reproductive freedom in Ohio and beyond. And I just love their the work that they do. With more than 15 years of campaign advocacy, grassroots organizing, and editorial experience, um, she loves listening to people's stories. That makes you perfect for being here with us. I love that too, and engaging communities for social change. Ummer fundamentalist evangelical. We're going to delve into that a little more, who practices compassionate care as a pro-faith, pro-family, and pro-choice Christian. And she currently is pursuing ordination with the United Church of Christ, where I am um ordained as well, and proudly serves on the board of red letter Christians. Thank you, Elena, for being here. Thank you for having me, Nicole. Absolutely, absolutely. So, one of the things that um right before we hit record, Elena and I were both confessing that we are both tired today. So we want to be like I have already said that we um here among this Rest Rebel community, we do not pretend that we have necessarily all of it together, whatever that means. We are showing up as our um beautiful and imperfect and in this case, tired selves. Neither of us had great nights' sleep. So if we stumble over our words or things like that, you know that we're just being authentic. That's all that means. And that we're not AI. We are real people who do, who make mistakes and have sleepless nights and um have stress and all of those things. That's why, that's why we're here. So the thing I like to do before we get started is take a moment for for the two of us and then our listeners who will be listening later to take a deep breath. Just as a way to pause and get ourselves in our body and in our space. So, would you I hope you would do that with me, Alina, if that feels right in your body. So take take a deep breath in.
SPEAKER_01Make it as full as that feels good, and then exhaling, making maybe making the exhale just a little bit longer than the inhale. I don't know about you, but I always feel just a little bit better.
Elaina's Journey from Evangelicalism to Advocacy
SPEAKER_03My nervous system feels a little more calm when I use these great tools that I have at my disposal. Like one little deep breath. That's all it takes. Um and I feel like the feeling of our conversation is different when we've taken even that short moment, that few seconds of rest. How about that? Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. Again, I'm so glad to have you, Elena. So, one of the things that the thing I usually start or often have started my podcasts with are that I ask people to share a burnout story, but I want to have a little bit of a particular take on that with you because your own personal story of coming to do this work around advocacy and reproductive justice is is so fascinating, right? So you write openly about the fact that you were raised an evangelical Christian. And I read somewhere when I was doing a little read up on you yesterday that um that even included going to convert Catholics in Rome, which is hard. And I'm a former Catholic, by the way. So that was I read that little piece of the story somewhere, and it made me giggle because I'm a former Catholic. Um whereas Catholics are on their own high horse because they're like, well, we're the ones who are right, and uh there's everybody else out there, right? So everybody has a little thread of that, so it's not just you. Anyway, so I I'm wondering if if you would be comfortable sharing a little bit of that like conversion story, I think is probably a good way to frame that. Like moving from one tradition into something very different. And is there any sort of burnout sort of pieces to the burnout in that story? Um, I'm just curious. And maybe there's not, and that's okay, but I'm curious how you came to this work and what that journey, that's a big arc of your journey. Yeah, tell us a little bit about more about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd be honored to share. It's it's really important, I think. It always helps ground me because many people are like, oh, you lead all this stuff, and I always have to remind them and myself that I don't have all the answers that I had a lot of growing uh to do, and I'm still growing and still unlearning many things, and so it keeps me humble and grounded in this work. You know, it's easy, it's easy to put people up on a pedestal, you know, these change makers, these leaders, and um it helps me to remember that yeah, I come from a tradition that said everything's black and white, that you're supposed to have all the answers and tell everyone um how to live and act, and if if they don't, then they're going to hell. You know, I was really young, I was really naive, and uh I also found it very appealing though, that you know, there was that sense of certitude, and um that's really appealing. I think you know, people always wonder why, why are folks attracted to fundamentalism or you know, this evangelical way of being. And I think part of it is you know, we live in such uncertain times, and uh to have so-called answers is is really comforting. And uh while I had that, um there was also a trade-off, right? Like as an evangelical, you're supposed to be sharing this good news, and here I am um slowly realizing that the news I was sharing was not very, very good, um, wasn't very liberating, wasn't very kind. And uh I, you know, started to question some of these things, and I think a big breaking point for me was my senior year in college. Um part of it was just uh seeing how my community was treating gay folks who are coming out, folks that I worship with side by side. I was like, wait a minute, all of a sudden they're not faithful anymore. And I had to really reckon with that of like, no, the God I know, the God I I serve, you know, is is more loving and liberated than that. And so in many ways I burned out from it, right? Like I uh got disillusioned and really started to understand that this tradition I was expecting so much from me um wasn't serving me, wasn't serving people that we're trying to so-called reach. You know, like here I am going on mission trips to convert Catholics and everyone else, telling them they're going to hell. Like, how how is that good news? Um, so yeah, there were there's definitely some other ruptures and breaking points along that journey that that led me to, you know, I was like, okay, I'll move to South Bronx, I'll become a youth minister. Uh, but I still have that in me. I was like, all right, I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna go save all these poor people and share the gospel with them. And again, I had to I had to confront all the things that were ugly in me, and I had to realize, like, oh god, I had internalized so many harmful teachings and messages. And so, yeah, I I had it was through encounter, you know, being in the South Bronx, living with folks, with them. It's where I first learned about the social gospel and understanding that, like, oh, all of this stuff about personal salvation, personal works, piety, it's a rat race that nobody is winning. And not unlike, you know, capitalism and the burnout culture and the hustle that comes with that, um that was no longer appealing to me. And the the things that I yeah came to understand was just like, no, there's there's a better way. I want to live differently, I want to be different. And um yeah, all that to say, it just started me on a journey of questioning and led me to seminary and now this work that I do, and so it's been a full thing for sure.
SPEAKER_01180, whatever it is.
Outgrowing Evangelicalism is a lot like Burning Out
SPEAKER_00Yeah, similar, similar parallels with just learning that there is burnout of these communities that no longer serve you, and either you crash and burn or you have to find an all uh an another way of being. And thankfully I I found a different community and yeah, uh found a lot of healing and growth for myself.
The Shift to Reproductive Justice
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I I wonder if a part of that feeling of burnout is because of not of now not being quite values aligned. Or, you know, that there's uh for and this may matter to some people more than others, but certainly for folks who like yourself that you took your face faith very seriously and you wanted to spread the spread this good news, right? Um with all kinds of good intentions, right? You wanted to, I mean, I'm sure there's an intention behind that of like we're making the world a better place this way, right? Misguided though it may have been for you, right? There was a good intention somewhere in there. And then to realize that you're like, no, I actually think that that we're what we're doing is not good. We're actually doing harm in in some or many cases. And and I think I know that when I'm not aligned in what in whatever way, right, then I'm gonna have like a burnout and maybe even a some kind of break breakthrough moment, right? Um that might lead us to a much different and and better path. So then how did that eventually yeah, how did that lead you then to the the reproductive justice um uh movement in particular, then because that is that is a real big shift right there. It's one thing, because you could have gone and just done been a youth leader in a progressive church, right? You could have done that. Yeah, um, what it would ended up uh taking your path into this direction of doing reproductive um choice, reproductive justice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh goodness.
SPEAKER_00Like, how do I sum it up? Right, it's a lot of things. How do I sum it up? Yeah, it's it's a lot in terms of just, yeah, I it's so personal to me that I'm like, all right, I guess people want to know this, but it is it's important uh that people see, like it gives you permission, you can change your mind. And um, that's what I found. The more that I share my story, the more others are like, oh, okay. It's all right to think differently. And uh that shift for me um started a little bit with, you know, a lot of my queer friends who who I was recognizing that like all these teachings about especially the things that we were saying that were so judge, so judgy and so harmful, were based on our bodies, right? Always had to do with women's security and not sexuality and saving yourself from marriage and you know, telling people, gay people they're going to hell. And I really started to interrogate, like, oh wow, there's a lot of teachings, but it's all centered on our bodies. And but who again, like, who does that benefit? And it wasn't benefiting me as a woman, um, and uh my queer and trans friends. And again, it came to a head again during my last semester of college. Um, I uh was raped by a trusted Christian friend, and that was also a major uh point where I recognized that I had a lot of blame that I assigned myself and but also wondering like but I knew I knew there was something off here that I was like, this is not okay, that I'm blaming myself. And at the same time, it was one of the first times where I thought about abortion, and I was like, oh, if this ends in a pregnancy, I knew right away that I would have an abortion. And I knew that was contrary to everything that I was being taught by um my evangelical community. And so that for me was a shift of just understanding that these things aren't black and white and they are more nuanced, and uh not just in a you know intellectual way, but again, like understanding not just the harm I'm doing to others, but the harm I was doing to myself. And you know, I had to do a lot of healing and therapy to get to a place where I wasn't blaming myself for putting myself in that situation and such. That I was recognizing like so much of that was rooted in toxic theology and a rape culture that is just it breeds in these spaces where you're not allowed to question and where women's bodies are the ones being looked at and controlled and so much of that played into why I um began advocating for women and um women and girls and specifically against gender-based violence. I was doing that in one of the largest progressive um evangelical organizations in DC, running their women girls campaign. And I was told that I could talk about anything and work on any issue pertaining to women and girls except abortion. And uh yeah, that again was another turning point where I realized like I've outgrown this community that as much as I still consider myself very progressive evangelical, yeah, there are limitations, um, especially when you know the progress about everything except abortion and gay rights. And I'm like, no, I I I don't think this is my community anymore. And that's where I became, you know, United Church of Christ, and I needed to be in a space and do advocacy where all bodies are welcome and all people are welcome, and um that we talk about the things that matter to our whole lives, and that includes abortion uh for women like pregnancy is a huge thing we have to contend with, and wanted pregnancies, unplanned pregnancies, and that touches on abortion. If we're not talking about it, the church isn't, then we're not we're doing a disservice to yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, long, long journey and arc there. It is a long journey.
Christian Grounding for Rest
SPEAKER_03Well, and it's an ongoing journey. We were also talking about how these journeys never end, right? We're always unpacking and growing and changing as our experiences teach us new things, right? And like you said, it's not this isn't an intellectual enterprise necessarily, it's a it's a process of living life, of being, like you said, when you were young and then being exposed to different people living in different ways than you had ever experienced before, and then having your own experience of of having your autonomy taken away in that horrible way. Teaching, and then you suddenly having this thought about an abortion that you would have never thought of before, and then you're like, wait, this is a complicated decision. It's not these are complicated decisions, not easy ones, but we can get into that a little bit more. So obviously, there's a there's a spiritual and religious grounding to your life, and I'm wondering how that influences your rest practices.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's definitely woven in there, bits and pieces, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. More more in the sense of oh gosh, what not to do in terms of yeah, yeah, I've been taught in Christianity, you know, like, yeah, Sundays are for rest in the seventh day. Uh God rested. And I'm like, but where? Where is that happening when we are just, you know, I used to be a pastor's wife, and Sundays were not restful at all. Um, you know, working in churches. I'm just like, this is how? How do we practice this thing that is so supposed to be core to who we are? And for me, then I have to um go back to just reminding myself that I am made in the image of God. And as part of the Imago Day, like it's not just God, you know, the big G, but like creator, creator is full of life, you know, we're meant to be human beings, not human doings, and so we're designed to live creatively and in community, and I believe that, and that is what helps me, instead of just like, oh, of course you're supposed to have Sabbath, that's what Christianity teaches. Um, but for me, it's a living understanding of who God is, and for me, that's a creative being, and so when I think of rest and when I think about like the things that I want to do and need to do, I always try to look at it through that lens of like, am I doing this for the sake of it, for you know, just to perform? And I'm like, no, if it's not enlivening, if it is not building community, um, it's serving me as created being, then I don't want to do it. And so then it helps me, gives me permission to rest. And for me, that's just much more accessible than just saying, Oh, honor the Sabbath. No, honor what is what it means to be made in the image of God and to just be and to be creative. And when I'm not being creative and I'm just, you know, doing my checklist and just grinding it out, that's when I know I'm like, oh, I'm not resting because I don't, I don't feel alive.
Grief, Lament, and Community Care
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And I I love what you were saying about not just like God with the capital G, but this idea of creator or creating being, you know, moving in and with us, right? And and I know that if I'm not well rested, I I am not very creative. I don't know about you. Like I I can grind out a checklist, maybe still, but I'm not doing my most enlightened or excited, I'm not having those um aha moments because if I don't take myself out of the work for a little bit, I'm I usually just start grinding, and that's not that's not great for any of us, right? And it's not going to help the very challenges in the world that we're trying to solve either. Right. Oh oh and w uh creating a space for community care that is that I know is important to reproductive justice work and and to lots of these move lots of movements, I think. Creating that kind of space needs to center rest, I think. And if we're gonna go back to the tradition of of our our faith, the the very beginning creation story had God resting on a day. And if and if you're following that tradition and you're thinking in that way theologically, then that means we're made for rest too. And that plays out, I think that story plays out over and over again in our tradition, in many um of the spiritual and religious traditions. I I ask this question of almost of everyone who comes on the podcast, and it's people have various um faith-based backgrounds, and they all have some root or there's some root or practice around rest that comes from their tradition, which is so cool, right? That must mean that the that our ancestors knew what they were talking about, right? Thousands and thousands of years ago, people were talking about this and knew this in their own bodies. Um, anyway, I'm on a little bit of a soapbox. I'll stop now. Oh, I love it. No, that's what you're inspiring in me. These conversations are so generative to me and inspiring to me. That's what I I hope for that. Um hope for this for hope for the space to be like. So I this actually this piece of our conversation actually leads really well to um something I was listening to. I was listening to your organization's soul podcast, um, which which I didn't know you had until recently. And then I was like, this has to be on my regular rotation now. Um, because I'm not only a podcast host, I'm an avid listener and have been for years. So I'm like, I should have known this. And you and your colleague, Reverend Terry Williams, who's also a friend and colleague of mine, have a podcast about the role of grief and lament in general, but then also specifically in the work that you do. And I'm wondering if you can speak a little too a bit to that about how that might be. And I think you actually say it in the podcast, either directly or indirectly. How it's self-care? How is how is making space for grief and lament a piece of that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This work breaks your heart.
Creating a Culture of Rest in Organizations
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think any not just as activists, but anyone who cares about the world, you know, like if you're you're paying attention, grief is just a part, a part of life. Um it's really important to my team that we honor our humanity. And we are, we're in the season of grief right now. Um started with me, I have other team members, like, you know, we're just we're we've experienced a lot of loss. And before that, you know, myself and another team member was diagnosed with cancer. And so like just the way the grief is, the way that life moves, uh just honoring that these, you know, when you think of act activist change makers, right? Like we're human and we struggle with these things. And uh we we we pause, we do it, we pause our work, we recalibrate, we take a moment to prioritize, and we too. We just have we have to sit back and just give ourselves and others permission to to rest and heal and grieve and lament. And uh yes, it's part of self-care, but it's it's community care for us. It is the ways that we show up for one another, and you know, instead of expecting, like, oh, you gotta get that deadline done, that project completed. Like, no, it that's that's not what matters here. Um, and so you know, life forces it on you sometimes, you know, like we've had just cycles in our work. I've been at this for nine years now, and I can already, you know, I look back and I'm just like, there are seasons where we have really had to push hard, and then some that we we've we've taken a step back and we don't regret it, and we and we we need it, and it's we come out on the other side better for it. Um and so yeah, I think a lot about you know the work that you're doing and how like rest is important, and what does that mean when you know we're fully human? And for many it is a luxury where life happens to them, and then yeah, uh I don't, you know, we we took a pause when I was diagnosed with cancer, you know, like we scale back on a lot of things. Was that restful? Well, not so much, you know, in terms of my like emotional well-being, and um, but did it did it help us, you know, have better boundaries, all of that? Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I'm just I'm wrestling with like what does rest look like when you're going through chronic pain, you're struggling with depression and grief, like yeah, I I aspire. Let's just say I aspire to be well regulated and be restful, but I also know that I really struggle. I really struggle with uh with that, I struggle with faith, you know, and but I think this is let's be more honest about that um in this movement work. Like, yeah, this is what it means to lead. It's not all just the victories and the wins and uh, you know, like out there in the streets protesting, you look powerful, yeah, yes, and it's also sleepless nights and really wrestling with yeah, are we are we gonna make it? And yeah, and also how do we care for each other and not burn out in the process? Like it's all those things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And I I like that you're bringing in there like your your executive director hat a little bit in in that conversation and how you embody that rest or work, you know, in your messy way, right? Which is understandable. Embodying that for for and with your whole team, right? And that there are times when, you know what, we have to because of illness in one case, but maybe for all because we've had heavy seasons of work, we're just gonna need to to back off and do less for a little bit of time in order to recalibrate. And and I think, like you said, that you're better on the other side because of it. Not only personally, I'm sure your bodies and nervous systems and minds are better off for it, and you might be more creative and have more energy for the work. Um, but you're just better, right? And we all need to be better in that way, for sure. For sure. So I'm I'm delighted that you're bringing that up because I'm I'm infinitely curious about how we structure this um or how it happens inside organizations, not not only personal rest. Because one of the things that that, especially in the beginning of the work when I mostly just had individual clients, and I I loved, and I still do, I love working with, say, an individual coaching client who wants to prioritize rest. That's totally fun for me. On the other hand, I know that at the end of the day, I'm sending them back to toxic systems most of the time. These are not other systems, the their jobs or their family lives maybe don't support it.
Navigating Expectations in Nonprofit Work
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, uh thankfully, you know, like I had I had to learn. I had to learn from being in nonprofit spaces, which I've always worked for nonprofits of just like and you know, churches that expect you to pour yourself into it, like that's the mission, right? Of course you're gonna make these sacrifices, of course you're not gonna be paid well, and you're gonna give it your all um because that's the expectation. And as as hard as it is to be an executive director, I I love that I am able to create policies and practices where we can explore alternative ways of I'm like, it doesn't have to be that way, you know. Like we we have a sabbatical policy, and that's really important and essential that I and others get to rest for the time that they the and to honor their labor. And you know, we have a very, you know, like just open-ended leave policy. It's just yeah, take what you need, we trust you. Like, um, yeah, there's just you have to have a culture, you have to develop that. And the the policies and practices you put into place will help make that happen, right? Like, do you really honor a parental leave and um bereavement leave? Like, is it just words on the paper or are you actually practicing it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Fortunately, we've had to really practice that, you know, medical leave and bereavement. And those are some ways you you practice rest, but it's also the day-to-day, you know, like we I have a lot of part-time staff and we're really big on like you do not work. There's always expectations sometimes where you know, like you're part-time, but you really work full-time, and it's just like, no, no, no. No, I'm really strict about people's hours, and and again, like we're constantly just looking at stuff. Like, are we overextending ourselves? What can we what can we not do? What do we say no to? Yeah, it's just it makes it makes it allowed all of us to stay in this work a lot longer than you know, I've burned out in the past. I've not, it's the longest work I've done in an organization. I think part of it is, yeah, I've been in other systems where yeah, it just wasn't practiced and honored, and there was just a lot of weight and expectation put on folks that it's just right so unfair. Especially when you're young, you wanna you have a lot of energy, you wanna, you know, you wanna do good, you wanna put it uh into the work, but that often gets exploited. And I think it's my job to to really protect the people that are that I serve with and who serve so that they can serve others well.
Understanding Reproductive Justice
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Because I know that I've had both I either get sort of subtle side-eye or have gotten overt pushback when I've had I've had many part-time nonprofit jobs that are definitely X the unwritten expectation is that you're going to work more, if not full-time. And years and years ago, I started a practice of logging my time, um, which still serves me. I still do that. As I work for myself now, but I do it as a way to keep myself aware of what I'm spending time on. People look at me like I have three heads sometimes when I'm like, no, I you pay me for 30 hours, I work 30 hours or whatever the amount of time is. And and that is sometimes it's looked upon like, okay, that's weird at minimum, or at maximum, you're like, well, this isn't how we do things. You know, it can be that aggressive. Like, this is no, we expect you to flex your time. Well, okay. So what are you actually giving me all that time back? Because I don't think you're actually giving me that time back. Is that really what's happening? I don't think so. Um, it just doesn't work that way. So I'm glad that, like you said, you're you're figuring that out, that you do have this opportunity and you're in the work that you're doing to have to actually create policies that are humane and that honor people. And it sounds like if people just need even whether even if they're not eligible for a sabbatical, let's say, if they needed the time away, you would find a way to make give them time away if they needed that time to rest. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, like I said, like yes, we have an employee handbook for for me, because I'm the full-time person. Right. Everyone else is part-time. They're they're technically not eligible for bereavement and medical leave. I don't care. We still give it to them. Like they're griefing, of course. Yeah, like yeah, it's I'm not gonna do that.
SPEAKER_03Is what's in a policy, like which anybody who's had significant losses know it's not a three-day operation, right? It's about a three-day experience. You're lucky to have finished through, you know, a cycle of planning and having a funeral is much less having any space to really just be and to grieve. And it takes a long time. And it never really goes away, like most things. Um, that's wonderful. I that was actually sort of a place I didn't expect it we were gonna go, but I totally am geeking out for it. I I would actually love to talk a little bit specifically about like the reproductive justice movement in particular, and it wasn't until a few years ago that I realized there's so much nuance to this, to this movement, um, which was such a delight to learn. So there's a difference between like reproductive health care and reproductive rights. And then I think more what your what Faith Choice Ohio is aligned with, which is the reproductive justice movement a little more broadly. Can you say a little bit about what the difference between those three things are? Um, and then we'll take it from there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
The Broader Implications of Reproductive Justice
SPEAKER_00We're geeking out about this stuff too. I'm totally geeking out for it. Yeah, when you you said about being values aligned, reproductive justice is about values. And so it is really important. You know, I love that you you're wanting to know the distinction because some folks conflate it. And no, there there is nuance and for good reason. So for reproductive health, it is about the the the health care, you know, that we need for our reproductive lives, perinatal care, contraception, um, you know, all of that. Yes, what you need when you gotta go to your gynecologist, obstetrician. So we gotta, you know, preserving that health care and that access is really essential. Uh, but there's also reproductive rights, like the right to have um paid family leave so that you can uh be with this child you just birthed. Like, so these are like the policies, the laws that we implement so that folks um can have families if they want them. Um, so it's the rights to abortions as well. Um, here in Ohio, you know, we we passed uh a ballot initiative a couple of years ago, and it was for reproductive rights and freedom beyond just abortion, you know, they get covered everything from contraception to sex ed, like the rights to these things and making sure that yeah, our government is doing right by us. But then justice is the RJ or reproductive justice is a lot more holistic. And uh we really owe a debt of gratitude to the 12 black women who created this framework in 1994. Um they were looking at, you know, this big push, you know, um, to protect Roe in the 90s, and realizing like those conversations about abortion, as important as they were, we're not actually talking about access. We're talking about it's not just a right to an abortion, but um, all the things that come with um making that decision. And so they developed a framework in which um it includes, you know, RJ is defined by the right to have a family or to birth children, the right to not have children, and the right to raise children in safe and sustainable communities. And so when they're talking about um, you know, when there's a singular focus on just abortion, we're not talking about the families who are able to access um, you know, safe schools. You know, it's one thing to say, yeah, we, you know, we want to provide health care and the right for people to have children, but what does it mean when you're then sending your kids off to school and you're worried daily about shootings, you know, and or sending your kid off and um they're stopped by the police just for wearing a hoodie. Like that's reproductive justice. And so it is a framework. Um, what I love about it, it is a framework of wholeness. And so when I think about like the values that we have in our organization, it's because of RJ. It's not just this theory, but it is a practice, it is a way of life that says that no one is left behind, that we can build a society where everyone can flourish, and that people can create the families that they want. Um, and that includes, you know, single-parent families and families with same-sex parents and you know, uh, families without children, like all of that matters. Um, and so I think RJ has been such a gift to the world and the movement and the work that we do, because it reminds us like how we do the work is this work. And so if we're not practicing our own values that say that, you know, people's lives and their families matter, and we're not practicing, you know, bereavement or medical leave or all these things, then we're not doing RJ. It's not about because none of you know, none of us have kids on my team. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that we don't honor, you know, their their full lives, and that's what RJ does. And it also um it's so embodied, it it centers pleasure and bodily autonomy and agency. Um and that's enlivening to me. You know, it's not just this list of do this, don't do that. It is um, you know, like we're we're recognizing that people's bodies matter and their agency and their ability to make informed decisions and their pleasure as well. And so yeah, it goes back to being creative uh beings, and so we get to create the families that we want and that we don't want. And and it doesn't have to all look like what you know, our opposition wants. Oh gosh, they are. They want their whole playbook, is about, you know, they want people to have babies, but they only want white babies, and they certainly want them, you know, with only um a very heteronormative way of having families. That, you know, it's like, are you living in the real world? Do you not see the beauty and diversity of all the ways that people make family chosen or otherwise? Like, uh, and people who are thriving as as single, you know, single parents or you know, single individuals, like that is also again, that's where I'm like, that's creative, and not just this oh gosh, um, black and white version, very white version of what yeah, we want uh the world to look like. And so, anyways, that's that's RJ in a nutshell of just yeah, it's the right to have families, not have families, and to raise them safe, sustainable communities. And so that just again is encompasses, you know, like we want families to stay together. So all these attacks on immigrants right now, on trans folks, like that is not allowing families to be together. And so, anyways, it just a whole host of just justice issues come into play. Yeah, it all matters.
Community Care and Mutual Aid
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I mean, I and I love that what again when I learned that a number of years ago now, but when I learned that about that movement, I was like, that is a beautiful framework. So thank you to the the women who created that. I think it's also been deployed in such interesting ways in recent years when with the the fall of Roe and then all of these states then moving to to either near or outright abortion bans, then what are those organizations who were, among other things, probably a providing abortions due? I know I heard a story, someone telling a story about that on I think on NPR recently. It was in the last few months, and and I'm I'm forgetting the person's name and where they were exactly, but they they talked about, well, we had to shift. Like, what do we do? And they leaned into those elements of mutual care. Yeah, or mutual aid for people. Well, okay, we aren't able to provide the abortions we used to, but you know, we can make sure that families have the food and diapers and that children are in safe places, and that we can make sure that they get to, you know, at least that even if we're not, even if people are maybe having babies they didn't want to have, if that happens, or maybe they did want to have them for that matter, that they're being Cared for and that they leaned into doing more of that work. And not that that's ideal. We want them to be able to provide the abortions, but it's because this just the Repro Justice movement has been so much more expansive that they said, okay, there are other places we can go. And one of the things as I was prepping for this, that I thought about is that if someone is, say, there's a person who gets pregnant who is um, you know, working three jobs already, because that's what it takes to pay their rent and feed maybe the children they already have, and then they they get pregnant for one reason, you know, one reason or another, whether it was wanted or unwanted. And then they're like, wait, but I if they feel like I just can't do this because I can't afford it, or I'm too tired going back to rest, is that really a choice? Maybe they would have won, you know, like so there's something I feel like I really feel like this should be the place where people on both sides of that abortion issue should be able to coalesce, that like we should be able to agree on caring for people and that um and caring for families. Can we agree on that? I don't know that we've made any inroads on that, Alata. It's been in my head for a really long time. And like, yeah, can't we just set that fight aside and just take care of people? Like, and and that has not happened, I know, because you've been part of that movement for part of this for a long time. Um but anyway, like so I'm rambling a little bit now, but I I think that's one of the beauties of this is that it does encompass community care, mutual aid, um and and and just making sure people are cared for and by that extension, I think rested and and cared for. Um, and I think that's what we can hope for. Now I'm sure we can have a conversation about this forever, because I really want to keep going. But I have some concluding I have some concluding questions for you.
SPEAKER_01What is one simple way that you rest? Doesn't have to be complicated. No, not complicated at all.
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm doing right now. I'm drinking my tea. I love tea. It's everything, even the things I love to do, like Zumba and boxing. It can feel like a chore, but tea to me, I'm just like, oh, I just get to enjoy this thing. It's so simple, it's accessible, it makes me be mindful and slow down. I just yes, tea to me is life, and um it really does. It teaches me a lot like just uh to be, and I I need more moments of that, and so yeah, I'm obsessed with tea.
SPEAKER_03Drinking finding tea, yeah, yeah. Well, and they're especially hot tea, there's something about it that slows you down. Um, I think it's because it's hot, you can't drink it super fast, like you can a cold drink, especially cold drinks in the summer or something like that, like a hot beverage will you know, like you are right now, wrapping your hands around a mug or or something like that. There's something really beautiful and and pleasureful. Speaking of pleasure being part of this movement, that there's there's a pleasure to that too, a simple one, right? And it's restful because it helps you stay present and grounded. I I love that. I love that. And so, how what is some way that you resist? And I know your whole life, right? Um, let's say it this way stay aligned with that liberated life that you would like for yourself and for others.
SPEAKER_00Tribe, which is hard. I'm an introvert. Uh, I lean into community, like you know, I think fascism, authoritarianism is fueled by despair and division. It just yeah, there is there's a tendency to want to isolate yourself and um to be guarded. And for me, it is in many ways, I have to force myself to be in community um as an introvert who works from home. But when I do I've yeah, I love it. I you know, I organize a lot with a uh progressive Asian women's leadership group and um yeah, it helps connect me to my community, my ancestors, uh reminds me like yeah, liberation for people who look like me, but that extends to others as well. And then yeah, I just have just I try. I try to be behind the pockets of community where I can, where we tr we can celebrate as well. Some uh I have a dear friend who's going through um adoption for uh their child who you know they're they're a queer couple and they have to adopt their child because that's the world we live in, but you have to adopt them to protect them. But it was gonna be a really, you know, just go to court and just whatever, make the paperwork happen just uh to do it to protect themselves. And I'm like, we gotta celebrate that. Like, it's not just gonna be this one and done thing. Like anyway, so we're always looking for occasions to celebrate um minor wins, small wins. Adoption's a big win. But they were just a big win, yes, yeah. It is a big win. It is a big win, that's no small thing. It isn't, but anyway, yeah, just being community together and celebrate each other. Like that really, really matters. Because you remind yourself what you're fighting for, you know, and I'm like, I'm fighting for their families and they're fighting for mine.
Empowering Rest and Self-Care
Dear Rest Rebels
SPEAKER_03Like, right, right, exactly, exactly. And that actually reminds me, I don't know if you remember this or not, but I just had had the ability to join you for the Zoom call you had um after the 2023 vote was taken to enshrine reproductive rights into the Ohio State Constitution when I was still living in Ohio. Yeah. And what an amaz, I was like, I was so glad I had time. And the reason I had time in space because I was recovering from COVID. Like a whole number of things were off my calendar because I had, and and again, as I was, I was kind of taken back to that moment because no, I was gonna talk to you today, and I was thinking about this movement in general, and I was like, what a cool thing that I got to do, you know, like and and knowing full well you all were saying, and everyone all knew it, like there's more work to come. It's not like this means, oh, you know, we're never gonna have to work on reproductive justice again. We know that. Yeah. And I I know, and there was was and probably still is, I'm a little disconnected from Ohio politics these days, but the uh resistance to even putting that, like to putting the laws in to comply with that new overwhelming decision on the part of voters to enshrine enshrine reproductive rights into the into the state constitution. Um, so the work continu that kind of work continues, but the that holistic work uh probably will never end, right? That broader sort of the tentacles of the movement. Um, there's always more work to be done in that regard, whether it's, you know, advocating at the state house or something else, right? Um, there's a whole lot of other work to be doing and educating people in the way that you do. So speaking of that, so you've already heard me say this earlier in the podcast that I like to call folks who are part of this community rest rebels. And so one of the things I invite my guests to do is to to speak them or write them a little note. Like, what would you say if you were gonna say to these uh listeners out there, dear rest rebels?
SPEAKER_01Dear Rest Rebels. Um be kind to yourself. Yeah. I know that it can feel like you have to lead and show the way for others at all times.
Support FaithChoice Ohio
SPEAKER_00Um but remember that the things that you say to others are the things we s should be saying to ourselves. When we give others permission to rest and be and grieve, it's it is also an invitation for us all to say that to ourselves and an offering and a gift that we give to ourselves that we get to rest. We also get to be human and that you matter just as much as the people that you're trying to to change and impact. Yeah, that's what I would say because that's what I need to say to myself all the time. Right, yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_03Both of us as we arrived today on the sleepy, sleepy Tuesday that we're recording this podcast on. Um, yeah, yeah. So, yes, that's a great reminder. Um, whatever you would say to someone else, try saying it to yourself. I like that a lot. Yeah, love that. I love that. And then I always ask my guests, what you know, uh what organization would you lift up who's doing good in the world? And so I I like lift up your own, lift up Faith Choice Ohio. Tell us some of the cool things that are are going on with you all. Is there any new big initiative that we can support? And um, as a thank you for your time, I usually give a a small donation to any of the organizations that my um my guests name. And as a thank you, and then also um uh I'm working, I haven't gotten this done just yet. I promise to do it, though. I'm gonna put all of these on my podcast website so that people can find them later and know. Because I've had such really cool organizations, some of a number of which I had never even heard of until my guests told me about them. So what what a cool thing. So tell us about Faith Choice Ohio. What's what are you excited about there and how can we support you?
SPEAKER_00Gosh, yeah, we're always experimenting at Faith Choice Ohio. You know, we are people of faith who are are there to help other people of faith get off the sidelines and put their faith into action for reproductive health, rights, and justice. We do a lot of education, uh, we do some advocacy, you know, like really right now we're really important to get a paid family, leave uh on the books here in Ohio, and we do direct service. We really plug in with uh local communities, we do that mutual aid. Um, and we uh were thrilled that you know, a couple of years ago we opened the Jubilee Fund, and that's where we get folks to do the practical support around abortion access, right? Like it's not enough to have the right to an abortion, but if you can't access it, then yeah, is it really a choice?
SPEAKER_03Is it really a choice, right?
SPEAKER_00Is it really a right? Um, and so I love that we are thinking creatively and we we provide transportation to folks to get to their appointments if they need an abortion. Uh, we provide child care, we do language interpretation for folks, food, lodging, like the whole package. Yeah. That, you know, that has been really life-giving for us to be to do that work. And right now we're we're having fun, we're experimenting. There's just a lot of things that we're we we love to just try new things, and so we're, you know, we'll be at Pride Festivals, we'll we'll do all of our trainings that are available online, but look for cool stuff that we're building. Um, you know, like last year we launched uh these mini zines that folks can download and share with their communities, but we're also developing our own like reproductive justice prayer tracks that are coming down the line. We're gonna be working on an Oracle deck, um uh simulation, you know, like there's just lots of stuff coming that we're really excited to just help people engage in this work and bring it to their community and practice it. Yeah. So my gosh. I so many ways. Yeah, people can work for abortion access, but it starts with you. It starts with your own education, your own learning, your own growth, and sustaining, sustaining that work matters.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I love that you're doing uh well, I'm you know, I have a heart for doing things creatively and maybe a little off the, you know, not what people expect. And I love that so much. So support their create their ability to be creative, support their ability to rest so that they can be creative. How about that? And reach people in new ways and and help others to um again learn and grow and change in in this, in the context of this reproductive justice movement. So yeah, I deeply appreciate the work that you're doing and and uh that's why I asked you to be here because I think it's really awesome. So, uh, how can listeners um find out more about you and Faith Choice Ohio then where would they go look for you upon the interwebs or other places? Interwebs, the internet, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You can find us online at faithchoiceohio.org. It's where you'll find all of our trainings. We have a podcast, a blog, the zines, everything is there for you to plug in. Uh, you can find us on socials as well. Same handle, Faith Choice Ohio. We're on Facebook and Instagram. And yeah, we have a store, you know, we've got a lot going on. So yeah, support us in whatever way. We'd really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03For sure, for sure. And I will drop links to all of those great things and those great places to find in the show notes. So thank you so much, Elena, for your time and attention and energy. I don't take that for granted because I know this is this is a lot, and and especially for sharing your story so vulnerably because uh, and I know you've done it probably a hundred times at this point because it's part of the work is sharing your journey, but um, I don't take that for granted that you're here taking the time and um and your energy to to share with us um yet again. So thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for being here. Um, and thank you, Rest Rebels, for welcoming Elena Ramsey. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much for listening to the remember. Remember, you are worthy of rest.