Grounding in Joy: Choosing Rest, Faith, and Radical Purpose with Anna DeShawn

What does it look like to stay in the fight — week after week, story after story — without losing yourself in the process? In this episode, Nicole sits down with Anna DeShawn, founder of E3 Radio and The Qube, and host of the Ambie Award-winning Queer News podcast, for a rich conversation about burnout, joy as a practice, faith as a foundation, and what it really means to build something that sustains you. Anna's journey from corporate burnout to full-time entrepreneur and queer media powerhouse is a case study in trusting the pivot — and in taking care of yourself first so you can keep advocating for your community.

In this episode:

• How COVID pushed Anna from corporate burnout to full-time entrepreneurship
• What it felt like to relearn how to work on her own terms
• The sacred meditation corner in Anna's home that grounds her before every episode of Queer News
• Why reporting the good news is just as important as bearing witness to the hard stuff
• The difference between battles and wars — and why showing up matters even when you lose a round
• Anna's deeply rooted faith background (Black Lutheran and Baptist — yes, both)
• Joy as a choice and a commitment — and why Anna quits the moment joy leaves
• The new relaunch of The Qube: building the largest searchable database of Black and Brown podcasts, and why discoverability is an equity issue
• Why podcasters are the storytellers and public record-keepers of our time

Organizations you should support:

• Affinity Community Services — serving Black queer women on the South Side of Chicago for 30 years. affinitycommunityservices.org
• Sisters in Cinema — a nonprofit supporting Black women, girls, and gender-expansive media makers with free programming and a 35-seat brick-and-mortar theater on the South Side. sistersincinema.com

P.S. Become part of the joy in Anna’s new community on Substack!

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to Just Rest and Anna Deshawn
02:45 Moment for a Deep Breath
03:55 Burnout, Leaving Corporate American in COVID
06:33 Redefining Work and Success
09:34 Wellbeing in Entrepreneurship
12:07 Authenticity in Podcast
17:14 Staying Grounded Amidst the Bad News
19:37 Seeing the Big Picture in Activism
20:47 Faith and Identity in Activism
26:33 The Intersection of Faith and Identity
28:03 Faith and the Podcasting Journey
30:51 Letting Go of Control in the Journey
32:19 The Importance of Self-Care
34:09 Finding Joy in Work
39:01 Relaunching The Cube
42:55 Creating Access in Podcasting
44:51 Ways to Rest and Resist
49:41 Dear Rest Rebels
50:22 Highlighting Organizations Doing Good in the World

CONNECT WITH ANNA DESHAWN

Website:https://e3radio.fm

Substack:https://queernewspod.substack.com

Instagram:https://instagram.com/annadeshawn

Facebook: https://facebook.com/annadeshawn

LinkedIn:https://linkedin.com/in/annadeshawn

CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA:

Newsletter

LinkedIn

Work with Nicole

Thank you to the people who helped make this show happen.

The Calm Calendar Club is a brain-friendly planning community for neurodivergent adults, ADHD minds, and sandwich-generation caregivers who are tired of systems that don’t fit real life. We help you build a flexible, values-based calendar that reduces chaos and protects your energy. This low-cost, community-based program is ready for you at defythetrend.com/calm-calendar.

Send me a message via Speakpipe.

A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective.

Transcript

1:13

We have to take care of ourselves. We have to sleep. We have to fill our bodies with good things that fuel us, right? And good things that taste good too. Okay. And we got, we have to play music that feeds our souls and we, we have to find the things that make us feel like who we are. Hello, Rest Rebels, and welcome to Just Rest. This is the podcast where burned out changemakers come to remember they're not alone and to get permission to rest without guilt and some inspiration for showing up without burning out. And I am thrilled. I cannot even tell you how thrilled I am to have on the pod Anna DeShawn. who is my favorite queer radio personality, by the way. is the host of the Ambie Award-winning podcast. For those of you who maybe don't know, Ambies are the Oscars of the podcasting world. That podcast that has won that is Queer News, one that I listen to every week. Anna is a social entrepreneur, storyteller. and community organizer, and you're gonna hear that in our conversation today, I'm sure, known for her signature greeting of family. And I don't say it like Anna says it, I'm gonna have Anna say it later. But media has always been her passion. And in 2009, Anna turned that passion into a reality when they founded E3 Radio. And then in 2021, because that's not enough, that was doing great, but that wasn't enough. Anna expanded that reach when she founded the podcast company, The Qube And in 2023, Anna was inducted into the Chicago LGBTQ Hall of Fame because of unwavering commitment to the LGBTQ community. And that will come out in this conversation too. And Anna is determined to ride media into its next era and God knows we need that. So Anna Deshawn. Welcome so much to Just Rest. Nicole, so good to be here on Just Rest. Thank you so much for having me. We're to have a good time talking about rest and activism and media and all the good things. my gosh, there's so many good things to talk about and I can't wait to get into them. However, before I ask all my guests and hopefully the listeners out there that to take uh just one moment of pause for a deep breath. Would you do that with me? Excellent. Let's pause. Let's take a deep breath. So maybe on your next exhale out. Make that one really complete and then a deep breath in. And then that long, slow exhale out. I know that helps me get the jitters out a little bit. I hope that helped calm listeners down and help them settle into this podcast. And I hope that helped you settle a little bit too, Anna. It never is bad. Right. never, especially right now. I take lots of deep breaths all day long. We would be so much better off if the whole world just took long slow deep breaths all the time, right? My gosh, we need it so bad. We need it so bad. So I'm learning that especially entrepreneurs, but probably almost anyone has like some kind of burnout story or stories plural in their history. And I'm wondering if there's something like that in your story or maybe a pivot point, because you have lots of pivot points in your story, right? And so is there a time when you're really, a shift in your relationship with time. ah with your relationship with rest. Tell me a little bit about that. Tell me a little about your journey and your relationship with rest. The one that stands out to me right now the most is when I decided to finally quit corporate America. That was a moment where burnout was very real. I was part of the crew that decided to leave during COVID. And the work that I was doing, we were producing webinars and virtual events for corporate 500 corporate, corporate 100 companies. And when COVID hit everybody we had ever tried to sell to. We didn't have to sell them anymore. It was mandatory. No one had a choice. And so our sales team didn't have to sell. They just have to show up on a call and send a contract. And then it was the services team's job to execute it. Right. And it, it, it became an untenable situation for our entire team. And I, at the end of my career, I was on the sales side of the work, but I was In between, was a customer success manager. So I was doing renewals, but I also knew the product so well because I had grown up in this company and I had run a services team and alongside some of my good friends. And so I could do some of the services pieces that needed so much support at that time. And I was managing the global contract. And it'd be funny because people on APAC be like, Anna, you're up with us again. And then people on the meal would be like, Anna, Hey, you're here. And then the people in the Americas was like, you still up? And it was. Okay. It was, it was a moment in time where I was being pushed out of corporate. My, I literally could not take it. I had been thinking so, so many times over the years of quitting and thought about what it would look like to quit and do my passion full time. And COVID was like, are you done yet? Have you had enough yet? Uh, and I had, it was just, it had, it was just too much. It has just gotten to be too much. And I said, time to go, time to go, time to see if I put all this energy into myself and into my work and into my passions, could I make it? Can I make something out of this? And that's the journey we've been on ever since. Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's interesting because I've had similar conversations with people too of how COVID was the spur for a lot of people to start new things. That's not, and I started, I had started a little before COVID, but it certainly had a little bit of an impact on me too. And that's so interesting that um in your case, like so many people are like, I got laid off. In that case, you had way too much work. Like you and with it seems like they had no regard for how much business they were saying yes to. It sounds like yeah. was, it was like the let it rain moment on corporate, right? It was like, let it rain, let us enjoy this moment, right? of fruits and berries. And there was also a lack of scale, right? When you're looking at moments like that, you can see the lack of care for those who had to execute it. And so it is in those moments that you really see the inequities in a corporate structure. between those who sell and those who actually have to do the service work. And yeah, and so yeah, we had way too much work. I had people calling me who didn't have no work, wanting to talk. And I was like, I'm still working. I'm sorry. oh I know you got all day. You just at home bored, oh losing your mind. And I'm telling you, I can't talk to you. You know, I'm... jobs that I'm trying to do right now. That's all I'm saying. And so it was, it was actually really funny because I had a lot of friends who just had nothing to do. And I'm sitting over here like, I got too much to do. Um, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I unfortunately probably had no ability to just pay them to do it. You're like, can you do some of these things? But that wasn't an option, right? Like, no. Of course not. We're not going to hire new people to meet that demand that they were having in that moment, right? No, and what the tough part is, and I think anybody who's worked in any form of business knows this, even if you hire people, you have to train them and then you have to give them opportunities to make mistakes. everything was just such a high touch situation. Everything was just, everything was important. Nobody's event was less important than the next person's event. And it's. That's when rubber really meets the road. in so many situations and the rubber hit the road hard. oh And, and, and it was just one of those moments where you realize I just need to reset and COVID I think was the great reset for so many people. If the world is starting over in so many ways, why not? I, why can't I start over too? Yeah. Yeah. So how did that shift change your relationship with your body and with your time? Because you, I'm guessing then, so you were doing that where you were working all day, practically all day, every day, and then you quit. So what did that feel like to go from that to nothing? Like, is that what happened? It felt so strange. I had to relearn how I wanted to work. I had to relearn how I wanted to show up in my work and I had to learn and define what success meant for me in my work. So if I just spoke on like my last position in corporate closing the contract meant that my work worked. Like that means I'm doing a good job, right? Before then, if I was running a webinar or producing a webinar and it went great without no problems, the client was happy. That's a win. I could check it off my list. But when you're stepping out into entrepreneurship, the wins don't look like that all the time. You know, the win could be, I spent time today thinking about my strategy. That could be an all day job and you still didn't check nothing off your list. The tasks are different than the strategic work. And I had to figure out what that looked like for me. What does my day look like? Do I randomly take a day off because I'm tired? Because I can? Or am I still embodying some of the practices from corporate, for example, answering an email within the hour? That was something we were told we had to do at a time, right? Am I still doing that? in this life is being on meetings all day mean that I'm being successful and productive today or does just mean I'm being busy? And so having to just reevaluate all of that, also being in full control of my time, being in full control of my time off and also being in full control of how much money I make. I'm on my deathbed, the last thing I'm thinking about is the email I was supposed to send. I... to have memories that actually matter, right? And so the work should be setting up for a life that I want to live. And so that is really the goal. Yeah, and I think one of the things I appreciate about your pod is how transparent you are about those things, and that there are shifts and changes to your schedule. And you don't have to tell us that even, right? Like you could be just make the change and we'd probably know any different, right, the listeners. But I really appreciate that you're transparent and say, hey, you know what, there was a family health emergency that came up and you know what, so we're doing this instead of my regular podcast this Or one that sticks out to me actually is from a few months ago, when you, and again, probably none of us would have noticed, but like that you said, Hey, I had to go into my prayer and meditation space to get right before I did this today. And so it's dropping late. And I love that you say that to us. First of all, that makes us feel part of the family, right? That makes us feel in. But I think it's really important to model that. So tell me a little about that choice to even say that, because again, you don't have to. Most people aren't setting their watch by when Queer News drops. Right? As important as it is, and I listen every week, it is an important part of my week, but I'm not necessarily going, it's 9 a.m., where's Anna? You know, like, that's not a thing I'm doing on Monday morning. I'm sure they go, wait, where are you? They, uh, they listened to me as they bike to work. It's so, or drive to work. And so, and I share that because I do think it's an important part of my process and how I show up for the pod and podcasting is this very intimate medium. in that I'm literally in you all's ears every single Monday. And I'm a solo podcaster. I'm not doing it with somebody else. We have contributors that bring on their stories, which I absolutely love. Of course, we do the voicemails where people leave us a queer news tip. And that's really fantastic as a way to insert more voices and allow the pod to feel like community. Mm-hmm. right, but it's still a solo pod and people can get their queer news from absolutely anybody. So if you're coming back to this, you're coming back because you're enjoying how I deliver and report on the news. And I also think it's so important to talk about how the news is also impacting me. How, you know, living at all these intersections of identities does impact how I can show up sometimes. And sometimes it's just hard. Sometimes it's just challenging and I've made a commitment and that commitment for me and the way I see my work demands that I still show up. And so how I can ground myself sometimes is my prayer meditation corner. It's the one area in my house where I told my wife she can't put her stuff there. She can keep her clothes all around this prayer corner, but this prayer corner is my space is a sacred space. Don't put your clothes over here. Don't put your shoes over here on this carpet. It's my space. And so I have a candle there. I have my light there. I have my mom's Bible there. I have a manifestation book. I have a book about relationships. I have my affirmation journal there as well. And I have headphones. that just stay right there. And so my phone connects with them. And it's about how I'm feeling that day, depends upon how I navigate that space. It could be whatever's in that affirmation journal. It could be the manifestation book. It could be just me sitting there in silence. It could be me in prayer. It's just something about that corner that can just help me ground and remind myself that I am grateful. that I am blessed and it can silence all the outside noise of whatever's going on. And I need that. I need that to feel like a whole person and to feel human, especially when things in the world are getting hard. Well, and it feels to me like that would be so important to keep, it's important to keep ourselves grounded period, but especially now, especially the news that you report, which is hard stuff a lot of the time in general, but especially right now when you have to constantly report on all of these anti-trans bills, for example, that are relentless, right? Is that a part of what helps you even keep in that? You know, keep doing it week to week, day to day. My prayer and meditation corner absolutely help me to continue this work and to be consistent in it for as long as we have. I'll also say reporting on the good news keeps me consistent as well. And it is the part that gives me hope. I tell people all the time, it's why I include culture and entertainment in the podcast, because it is 20 years ahead of the politics of any time in any point in history. Culture was far ahead and the political game finally caught up and decided to get in alignment when they couldn't win a culture war, right? And so for me, it's also the good news stories that keep me going. For example, right now in Chicago, there's this influx of women-owned bars that are popping up, right? Women's sports bars that are just playing women's sports, right? uh bars owned by lesbians in different parts of the city that are intentionally creating queer spaces. That is hopeful news. We are still demanding that we build community, right? And even in a big city like Chicago, those things give me hope. Even when there's a story that disgusts me, like pulling a song from a concert from a school, because the school board deemed that You can't play a song that was inspired by Marsha P. Johnson. Okay. So they pulled the song from the concert just six days before it was set to be performed. Right. That sucks. That is sucky news. Right. And on the other side of it, those students decided to protest. Hundreds of them walked out and made sure their voices were heard. They showed up at the school board meeting and they told that school board exactly what they thought about it. Right. Mm-hmm. for me, that gives me hope because if we lose a battle, like this song being played, the concert and don't speak up, they actually win. That's actually when they win. But when we decide to show up and fight, and even if we have lost this particular battle, showing up and fighting the opposition means that we still have an opportunity to win the war. And I think that. We always have to continue to think that there is a larger fight happening here. There's all these battles going on state by state, county by county. But when I look at the war of it all, right, we are winning. And somebody who just emceed Lamba Legal's gala, you know, out of the 18 cases they brought against Trump, they've won 90 % of them. That is the war. that is not nothing. Right. That is a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Yep. the war. And so that's what keeps me going. That's what gives me hope. Because I know you quoted a young person who had stood up at that school board meeting. And what did those young people learn to do in that moment, even if the vote didn't go their way? They screwed up the courage. They put their brave hat on, right? And they showed up and they did what they had to do. And sure, that's disappointing. And that might be hard for them to figure out. But they also learned what they were made of and they learned that this is something they can do and will need to do probably for the rest of their lives. And what a good lesson and look how many young people we have now who are part of that, who are mobilized to be part of that fight in a positive way, right? in a positive way, because we must also understand that the opposition is mobilizing young people at a rapid rate. The number of conservative young men that are growing up today completely outnumbers the numbers in which I grew up with. And so we cannot remain stagnant or get comfortable in any way. And I believe that's what we did after Obama, during Obama's time. We got comfortable. We thought we were moving. into a different direction in this country. All the while, the opposition was very clear that they, that we were not, that they were going to figure it out. And they did. And they've done it very successfully. And so it is incumbent upon us who believe in diversity, equity and inclusion, right? Who are not buying into the biggest gaslight in American history that somehow the vesting from black and brown folks. queer folks is somehow better for the better good or the greater good, it's the biggest gaslight in American history that people have bought this rhetoric, right? So if you're still on the side of equity and justice, then we cannot be complacent in this moment, right? We have to find the organizations, the places that believe in what we believe in and do the work. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Keep doing the work. And so you were mentioning earlier your prayer and meditation space and your own practice to help keep you grounded and focused and in this fight that we're talking about. And you also mentioned in there, you had this little, you just a little mention that your mom's Bible is on that, is in that space as well. So I'm curious about the, where does it come from? Where's the sort of spiritual religious grounding for that practice? because usually we don't make it up out of nothing, right? So where does that come from for you? Yeah, I grew up in a Christian field house. My mom is from Mount Bayou, Mississippi. She grew up a missionary Baptist. Also grew up in a COGIC moment for a second. uh My dad's family started a church on the South side of Chicago, a missionary Baptist church. My parents met where my dad was teaching and he ended up teaching. He ended up going to college. at a Lutheran college, Benedictine. And then he ended up in the Lutheran uh school district. So he ended up teaching at a Lutheran school on the South side of Chicago where my sister was going to school. And so that's where he met my mother. And so I grew up Lutheran. uh If you know about Black Lutherans in Chicago, holler, they exist. So I grew up Lutheran, but I also grew up Baptist because my family, my father's family, that's where everybody went. Literally everybody went to that church. So Easter, I'd have two speeches, Christmas, I'd have two speeches. Anything special going on, we'd go from the Lutheran church to the Baptist church because Lutherans start early. Okay. Lutheran start early and the Baptist start late. So by the time the Lutherans got done with a 75 minute service, It only gets to 90 when there's communion. Okay. So 75 strong, my cousins were just getting done with Sunday school. So it was, uh, so I grew up heavy in the church, um, choir, choir directing, playing piano, playing my saxophone, uh, Vacation Bible School, chile all the things. So church is church. Christianity are definitely cornerstones. And as somebody who's queer and also kind of smart, when you're growing up trying to figure out who you are, you begin to question these things as well. So I'm also somebody in this moment who is not, you can't find my name on a roll of any religious institution, right? And I truly believe in the practice and the grounding that my faith gives me, the power to ask questions of God. And I do think there's something bigger than ourselves at play in everything that we do and everything that happens in our lives. And so, yeah, no, it don't come out of nowhere. Definitely grounded in all of that faith. Yeah, well both community and like multiple communities. It's not even one that you were part of growing up and having. Did you have time for anything else besides church hearing that like two Lutheran's and Baptist that is not to be trifled with like that's a lot. it was so funny. And as an adult, you you look back on your life, you realize, that's why I can sit over here and I can go over there and I can just get along with everybody because I just grew up. My life was always the opposite. Lutherans are like Catholics. They don't talk in church. You barely. there's it's silent. OK. And black, black Lutherans, because of. everybody's upbringing, you get a little more clapping, okay, but ain't much, ain't much. And then they go, just a little bit. Then I go to Baptist church and ain't nothing but hooping and hollering, okay? And so it's just, as an adult, I can appreciate, you know, the balance that I grew up with in how we show up in the world. It's just appreciating, honestly, how we can all show up in the world and still believe the exact same thing, right? So. oh oh All of that has informed who I am and how I show up. I'll say that for sure. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, thanks for sharing all that. I just love hearing people's varied expressions, like, or backgrounds. This is stuff we don't talk about very often, I don't think. It does make its way in little pieces, I think, into your pod. Of course, that's a 20-ish, 20-30 minute pod, so you're not going to go into any detail about any of it. But that's why you're here. So I get to tell the listeners a little bit more about about you and Anna and things that we didn't know that Lutheran Baptist that that that you are. Yeah. it's so true. It's so true. It's not something that, it definitely shows itself because my faith is such an important part of who I am in the world. And it's also been a part of my work, right? We produced two seasons of Second Sunday in partnership with PRX, talking about black queer people finding, keeping, and sometimes losing faith. was the first podcast I wanted to produce and create into the world. It was the last one. as far as a Qube Qube original is concerned that we put out and it's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. And the conversations that were had on that podcast reconciling, you know, the harm that the church has also done and continues to do to queer folks, folks who are just on the outside, right? Of what they deem to be right. It was just a really impactful piece of work. Yeah, I just love Second Sunday and I think it was in your last episode of that pod that I listened to quite a while ago, that you had, got my ears perked up because you had said that was my first idea for a pod, but then other things happened first. And I'm curious how that then evolved because Queer news has become sort of a flagship, right? but that's not what you were thinking. Given your background in the church, it's actually not surprising that you would go to something like Second Sunday. First, where you're talking about those stories, and those are really important stories to be telling now for queer folx especially queer folks of color to be claiming and reclaiming their faith is a radical act and having those conversations in the expansive ways that you were and are. on that pod. So say more about that. Why did that evolve? How did that evolve? It's part of the letting go, which is hard for this Virgo. Okay, let's talk about it. I'm a Virgo who's gone through therapy. Okay. I'm one that you can be around. Okay. And not feel judged. I might be judging you in my head, but I'm not going to say it. Okay. Uh, cause that's what therapy does. Uh, but, but my Virgo spirit always has a plan. There's always a plan. There's always some overthinking happening. Okay. And I had planned out what I thought our release schedule would be for production of our Qube originals. And I thought about the order in which I wanted to release them and why. And I was clear about all of that. And we were going to do that until we weren't going to do that. Right. And, and we had even started the work on second Sunday. I had, I put money into someone. helping us to produce it and edit it. And we had started interviews. We had completed a lot of interviews. And then we ended up applying for this opportunity with PRX and we got it. And we were like, well, I guess we got to scrap everything that we already did and take advantage, full advantage of this amazing opportunity. And it was one of those moments where on this journey, I was just reminded over and over again that I can have a plan. Sure, Anna, you can have a plan and God is going to have another plan. The universe is about to set some stuff up for you that you're not even ready for. But if you do the work and prepare yourself, right, you're going to be good. But it's one of these things where you got to stay ready so you don't got to get ready for the moment to when the moment arrives. And so this moment arrived and we were ready for the moment. We just looked at those interviews we had completed as pre-interviews. So now we know all the stuff about these people and now we can focus on this one part that we want to focus on now for these stories. And that's exactly what happened that first season. Everybody on that first season, I'm almost certain were a part of the first interviews we did with them months before. And we were able to revisit them and tell them, so what had happened was, and now this is what we're doing. And they all said, yes. So it's just one of those moments where I just learned what it means to just what it means to not hold on to control, not be so fixated on trying to control the situation and uh allowing God and the universe to do what they're gonna do so that things go as they should, you know? Mm hmm. Well, and then being willing to adapt your plan. And it sounds like to me, I think I'm hearing that the the work that you're doing isn't the planning, the work you're doing is the the work you're doing on the cushion in if you will, you know, the time in prayer and meditation, the time, taking care of yourself before we came on pod, we were talking about workout routines and doing that. Like that's a piece like the taking care of yourself is the real work. Is that right? a hundred percent. We have to take care of ourselves. We have to sleep. We have to fill our bodies with good things that fuel us, right? And good things that taste good too. Okay. And we got, we have to play music that feeds our souls and we, we have to find the things that make us feel like who we are. As, as you get older, it's so easy to get away from who you actually are because you have things that you have to do or things that you can't compromise on. Right. I have, if you have children, you've got to take care of your kids. Right. They, they need to eat. They need to do this. They need to do that. You want them to be great all around humans. You got to put them in this program. You got to do this. And so you become, uh you become this parent, right. And then who are you? Oh, are you still the person that really loves to draw? or the person that really loves to do Legos. I know so many adults right now who are obsessed with Legos and touching things again, right? And building things again, right? Like, are you that person? It's so easy to get away from who you really are. eh And as an adult, I can understand what my mom would say, like, that's who you always been, Anna. know, or um I know you better than you knew yourself because She did, right? She knew, she could see things I was doing and saying that other children were not doing or saying and that it's just who I was in the world, right? And so it's so easy as adults to get away from that because of the presses and the needs of the day. And so doing these activities, grounding myself, doing the things that speak to me helped me to remind myself of who I actually am. Well, and it feels to me like that's where the joy comes out. We haven't used that word just yet, but I know that's something that I both feel and sometimes think about listening to you. And in the times we've had opportunities to have conversation, that there's a joyfulness that comes out. And joy, at least to me, is not sort of a... an inauthentic emotion. It's not happiness, which I think can be sort of glossing over a feeling that just glosses over the ick, whatever the ick is, right? The joy is coming through whatever the yuck of the day is. And there's plenty of that to go around. And there's plenty of that as you produce a podcast like Queer News or, and Second Sunday for that matter, because Second Sunday is going right into the pain. of those fractured relationships between queer folx and their faith of origin, whatever that might be, and telling the story of reclaiming that, which is where the beauty and the power and again the joy is, I think. Yeah, uh A three letter word that. Joy, unspeakable joy. That is also, right, one of those. emotions that I seek to embody in my work. Because when you have joy, it's not something that anybody can take away, right? Like no one's going to take the joy from me of me doing my work. Happiness is like when my wife surprises me with something and I'm like, snap, you guys are so sweet. You so sweet. You know? Uh, and it's probably something I don't even need. She just, that's one of her love languages, you know? But joy absolutely is one of those things that is steeped. uh It's a choice. I am choosing joy in my work and I am choosing to do things that bring me joy. And when something stops bringing me joy, that is absolutely when I quit. Let me tell you, when you quit one time, it is so easy to quit all the other times. And when you pivot one time, it is so easy to pivot the next time because I know what it feels like when something isn't bringing me joy anymore. It doesn't get me excited. I'm not happy to be there. I can begin to shut down. And so I'm at a place where I am absolutely choosing joy and I'm absolutely seeking joy. And the moment joy falls away from any piece of the work that I'm doing, I will quit that work. I will sunset that work and I will go seeking joy in other ways and in other places because that is, a feeling that I am committed to not losing in my work and how I show up in the world. I amen to that is all I'll say amen because that's a word right there. That's a word um that joy being a choice and a commitment. Not only a flash in the pan emotion, right? It's something. I think it's akin to love is the same way. Love is a choice. To embody love in everything that we do is also a choice. And it's not always an easy choice every time. And joy isn't always the easy choice. And it's not like happiness, like, oh, someone brought me a present today. And those are great. That's nothing wrong with that, right? It's a great thing to like, hey, because in that case of your wife bringing you that little thing, that's an expression of her love for you, right? It's not the thing, it's her love, right? So that's what's important in that moment. But that's such a, uh so insightful that we have to remember, I think, uh for those who listen to this, that joy is a choice, that love is a choice. Sometimes these things are, we have to keep choosing them over and over again, even when it's hard, and especially when it's hard, I think. Yeah. begins to be too hard, then that's when you begin to reflect on if it's serving you or not. And if it's not, it's time to let it go and seek that joy and seek that love somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell me about what's on the, speaking of Joy leading you in new places, where is Joy leading you right now because you're having a big new launch, relaunch of the Qube Tell us about that because I am stoked about this. Tell me about it. I'm so excited. Ooh, we can talk about the Qube. You do get to talk about the Qube and you're moved to Substack There's there is moving and shaking going on in your world. And I want to know more about. I love it. Yes, there is all of that is happening. I'm getting uncomfortable. You know, even in this work that is bringing me so much joy every day, you can still get comfortable and into this routine. And it is in those moments that often, uh, God will bring the divine will do something and shake it all up for me. And I'm reminded that I need to get uncomfortable again. And this is where I'm at in this moment. and so when we talk about the Qube, when I first started this journey five years ago, to build a platform of black and brown podcasts. It looked a lot different than it does today. And it has been quite a journey to figure out what I wanted this platform to look like and what I thought would work. So many conversations, so many nights just up thinking about what it could be. And now it's time. It's time to relaunch in this moment. And I'm so excited about what it means to build the largest database and dopest search engine for black and brown podcasts. And it, it gets me excited, especially in this moment where there's been such a divestment and so much gas lighting, uh to build something for folks who not only want it, but deserve it. And I'm not just talking about the creators. I'm also talking about the listeners because if I'm trying to find a new podcast, it's usually happened because of a Google search or a friend. And I'm saying, why aren't we using tech to help us do this again? And how are we not doing this for each other? And I just think there is a much better way to do it. We're going to build this platform where people can do deep searches, find culturally aligned content that might actually serve them, might next actually be their next favorite podcast. And so can we solve discoverability in the podcast space? That is the major question. I believe the answer is yes. And so we are on our way to do that. Goal is to get 500 podcasts in the platform by June 30th. Um, last I checked, we were at 121 and that's just organic. No networks yet. I am just excited about what's going to happen over by June 30th and beyond, honestly, with the platform. Right, because these are really amazing podcasts that do that deserve to be heard. And as as you know, and as certainly as I know, as you know, as indie podcasters, that the algorithm ain't doing you any favors. It's not. So make your own space. Just make your own damn space. part and algorithms are going to serve themselves, honestly, algorithms serve themselves. And why am I going to social media to find a podcast? What's happening? Shouldn't I be going to a podcasting space to find a podcast? But here's the thing, people don't even know where to start. People don't know where to start, right? So can we be the place where people start? Can we also be the place where people can continue to find their next thing? And, and what does it look like to really invest into this space? And what I think is truly the future of media. think podcasters are our storytellers of today. They are the people who are keeping the public record. uh Whether it's news, culture, rest, the public record on absolutely every topic is being kept by podcasters and their podcast feeds. Mm-hmm. so how are we amplifying them? How are we ensuring that more people get to see them that just because they got a hundred followers, the algorithm may send them to you, but guess what? It could be the most brilliant person. And you wouldn't know because of the value that we put on social capital. Let me tell you, I'm excited about being able to break down an algorithm, being able to get the algorithm out the way and, and allow you to have control of your search. Mm-hmm. just seems to make so much sense to me. Totally. Right. And putting, yeah, putting that control and agency back with the people who are listening and creating, right? Not with some tech bro who is deciding what you can and can't hear and, you know, pushing certain celebrities. And those podcasts even aren't always bad, right? They're not. But there's thousands and thousands and thousands of other creatives out there who you're not hearing who are doing equally, if not better. Absolutely. It's about access. It's about money. It's about all the things. And can we create some type of platform that creates some type of common ground where the celebrity pods and the indie pods can play well together? Can we create something like that? I mean, it shouldn't be hard. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. uh That's awesome, that's awesome. So I do end with a few questions, but one thing I wanna ask you to do Would you do your introduction for us today and do justice to your introduction of family, which I don't do, because I'm not Anna. God didn't make me Anna. God made me Nicole. And so my voice doesn't sound like yours. That's a good thing. So yeah, would you do that just for this? And then we'll dive into our final questions. So you want me to do the intro for the show? Do the intro to Queer News because I think it's awesome. That's why. Or just say family. How about doing family? I pulled it up. can do the whole thing. Let's do it. Let's do it. Family. This is your favorite queer radio personality, Anna DeShawn. And this is queer news, your favorite weekly news pod where race and sexuality meet politics, culture, and entertainment. This is your number one stop for queer news done right only on E3 radio. I love it. I love the introduction. So that's why I did it selfishly almost to ask you to do it. Cause I get to hear it live, not just on the recording like I do every week. But when I often, when I'm listening to the podcast, I'm out walking. That's what I do a lot of the time when I'm listening to pods. And when I hear that I'm like there, it's like when you introduce it, it's like, I feel like I, it's like a hug. It's like a hug, Anna. Like it feels like I'm part of this thing and you do that with your voice and clearly God has given you that beautiful announcer-y voice, one of the most announcer-y voices I've ever, in a good way. oh Some people just have, you know, we're blessed with that. And so I'm glad that you get to use that voice and that you're gonna use, and that you use that voice to amplify other people. So here's my kind of quicker questions quote unquote that I do at the end. So what is one simple way that you you rest? I get on my couch in the basement, turn on mindless television and pass out. That is one way I rest and I love it. I'm an introvert at heart. I'm an only child in some ways. My sister's 17 years older than me. So I really grew up by myself in some ways. So TV with nothing on it, just talking and on a couch with a blanket. Blanket. Ooh, the blanket is important. It is. So like time by yourself on the couch. I love that. I love So what is one simple way that you kind of resist or liberate yourself from all the nonsense that's out there right now? Probably doing the show, probably doing Queer News That's probably one of the most liberating things I can do. It's also one of the most therapeutic things I can do because I get to talk it out. I get to talk it out every week. And I have a wonderful script that I destroy every week because I'll go off script all every week. And it just gives me a chance to share how I'm feeling about a particular story. I can give you the facts and then. I can share how I'm feeling. So that's probably one of the most liberating, therapeutic ways uh I can show up and combat what's happening out here in the world. Yeah. Well, and I definitely hear that in the pod, right? That there's clearly times when you're on script and then you're like, wait, I wasn't planning to say this, but now I'm going to go here, right? Because now the spirit is moving me in a different direction than I had planned to go, which I think is what it should be. I mean, is what podcasting should be. And I'll just also add this because it's something that you do so well is also when an it's unfortunate you have to do this as often as you do, but when there's so people to eulogize, important people in the culture, uh in the world that you're talking about, I feel like I've been to church a little bit right there, um especially in those moments, and a lot of other places too, but I really feel in those moments where you're like, I have really paused and honored the spirit of who that person is. So I just want to give you that. You mentioning that reminded me that that's another thing that I I also appreciate very much about the pod. So thank you for doing that because we don't I think in general because we're so fast and we move on we're like we gloss over those things, you know, like here know this person's name and what they did in the world and how they showed up deserves to be honored and They do you're right They do. Yeah, you're welcome oh So you heard me say it earlier, but I like calling my listeners community members Rest Rebels And one of the things I like to ask em my guests is to offer people a little note at the end. So dear rest rebels, and then what would you say or write to them in this moment? Dear Rest Rebels, it's gon' be okay. It's gonna be okay. It's going to be okay. I, yeah, we all need to hear that. Thank you, Anna. I needed to hear that maybe today. It's going to be okay. Yeah. And then what is an organization doing good in the world that you would like to lift up besides your own that we should be supporting as well. But I'll give you a chance in a second to, tell people where to find you as well. Sure, yeah, I got a couple I can uplift. Chicago based nonprofit organizations. First one would be Affinity Community Services serving black queer women on the South Side of Chicago. And they have been for 30 years. It's place where I found home and found community. Love them. Then there is Sisters in Cinema. which is exactly what you think it is. It is a nonprofit serving black women, girls, and gender expansive media makers on the South side. It has a brick and mortar of a 35 seat theater. All of their programs are free and they are teaching the next generation how to be filmmakers, how to be media makers, how to be amazing writers and how to tell their stories. So those are the two I'd want to uplift in this moment, Affinity Community Services and Sisters in Cinema. Yeah, and I will link to those in the show notes and I one of the things I'm gonna do is get all of these on my website so that there's a collection of the wonderful organizations that my guests have lifted up. So finally, how do we find more of you? How do they find you and E3 Radio and Queer News and all that good stuff? 100%. I love this. So we are like Nicole said, moving the SubStack stack. So find queer news on sub stack. is queernewspod.substack.com. Gonna be able to provide the stories that we cover every week. Not just, know, historically it's been on our website, but now they're just going to be posts and they can be, and they can live in our sub stack forum. So I'm excited about that. We got big dreams of hitting 10,000 subscribers by 2027. So let's go. uh Go visit queernesspod.substack.com and subscribe for the Qube It's exciting. We're also on Substack. So go to thecubeapp.substack.com, T-H-E-Q-U-B-E-App.substack.com and subscribe to us there as we're going to be talking about the journey there. If you join the Qubies, which is our paid membership, you'll be able to. inform the actual web app design and it's going to be a place where we're going to build community around what we're building in a very thoughtful way. And in general, I'm at Anna Deshawn. If you want to just start with me, you can. I'll link out to everywhere uh and all my businesses, but at the heart of it all, all of these brands and the things I've created, it is about inclusivity. It is about amplifying. underrepresented and underestimated voices and creating community and solving the problems that I see and that exist in the world. And so that's what I'm up to. So, well, thank you so much for being on the pod. know that you're obviously we just heard how busy you are for the last hour or so. And so I am deeply grateful that you would share your time with me with the Rest Rebels And I look forward to more fun and collaboration hopefully with you. I should have mentioned this earlier but the reason Anna and I know each other is because we're both parts of the Feminist Podcast Collective. And I'm deeply grateful to you, not just for today, but for the many times we've been on Zoom calls and especially before I even started this pod and I asked a total newbie question and neither you nor anyone in that group made me feel dumb at all for asking like what are obvious questions to anyone who's been doing it for more than five minutes. But I hadn't been doing it at all at that point. So. 100 100% Absolutely. the Feminist Podcast Collective and all you all go find, Anna and the Qube and Queer News and all of that stuff if you haven't already. Thank you so much, Rest Rebels. You are worthy of rest.