Episode 19 Dark History of Nursery Rhymes

We have all heard a lot of these nursery rhymes at some point in our lives and as we got older we learned that some like ring around the Rosie have a dark meaning but Sabryna and Joey dug in a little further to learn about the dark meaning of many of them. Some they were familiar with and some new ones that they hadn’t even heard of. So grab your pj’s and get comfortable while they prepare for bed with the dark history of Nursery rhymes.

Don’t forget to add Ghost and Gavel of Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. If you want to submit your personal encounter, stories or thing the you want Joey and Sabryna to look into for an episode please do so at ghostandgavel@gmail.com. 

Sources:

Google
Wikihow.com
Mentalfloss.com
Classical-music.com/features/works/darkest-nursery-rhymes
Mindbodydad.com/dad/dark-nursery-rhyme-meanings
Writingtoberead.com
Ripleys.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Ghost and Gavel with Joey and Sabrina.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

This is episode number 19 where we're going to talk about the dark history of nursery rhymes. However, I just wanted to give a little shout out while we're at the beginning to longtime school friends Beth and John, as they have been dedicated listeners for us since the start, which is absolutely amazing to have friends like that. Thank you guys. We love you. They did also send in some personal encounters, which does go back a little bit. Um, so I just wanted to share some of their stories that they have. Um this is in reference to the Bobby Mackeys episode that we did. And she tells me that years ago, when Bobby Mackeys was still in its original location, her um her husband, so John, again, another longtime school friend, and some friends had gone to Bobby Mackey's to take their haunted tour. So she says when they took this tour, she's going to try to find the picture, but she doesn't know that they still have it. When um they were taking the tour down in the dark well that we spoke about. Um, they said they took a picture going down into the well, and it was completely dark in the room. Nobody saw anything until they looked back at the picture, and there was a demonic face within the well. And then she also had um, this is not her personally, but she did ask me to keep these people uh anonymous. She did not want any names or anything mentioned. There was a lady that they knew years ago. She's an older gal now, but um she had been pregnant when they went to Bobby Mackey's, or this lady specifically, and um they had felt that there was not um something right. They had visited multiple times while she was pregnant, and when um she ended up giving birth, the baby unfortunately had some terrible deformities. Of course, you know, this could be anything related to genetics or you know, things like that, but they just found it kind of coincidental that she had multiple children later, and um that everything was fine. However, when this woman had given birth, the baby was missing a lot of its organs, was severely deformed, and just did like a meowing sound for a solid like 15 minutes. Oh, yeah, you gotta add your two cents in. Mr. Bat Boy. Um for 15 minutes before it had passed. Like I said, um, they just found this kind of coincidental because the lady had had multiple healthy births afterwards. It wasn't except this one that um had any issues in the one that she had visited Bobby Mackey's while being pregnant. So, some interesting stories to add in there, and again, a shout out to my bestie and her husband, who have been an amazing support for us. Thank you guys. So let's move on to today's episode, Dark History of Nursery Rhymes. Of course, we're all well aware by now that you know things are not quite as they seem from the past. Um, but I did find quite a few nursery rhymes. Some I knew about, which I'm sure some you guys know about as well, because they're fairly popular ones. And then some I wasn't uh aware of. So the first one we're gonna start with is Mary Mary Quite Contrary. Supposedly the rhyme is said to be about Bloody Mary and her prosecution of Protestants. Bloody Mary, aka Queen Mary I of England, a devout Catholic, tried to reverse the English Reformation that was begun by her father, King Henry the Seventh. The name Bloody Mary was given to her because of her cruel murder and torture of religious dissenters. It is believed that the nursery rhyme, her garden. Okay, so, anyways, back to it. Um, it is said that in the nursery rhyme, her garden could possibly refer to graveyards. The term in the rhyme silver bells is said to refer to thumb screws, and the term cockle shells is believed to refer to the torture device that was actually attached to men's genitals. Pretty maids all in a row is said to allude to the lines of victims waiting to be tortured, and it is also said that this is the same Mary that inspired the legend, urban legend game Bloody Mary, as well. Which honestly, I didn't know those two were connected, but I did not either. Okay, next one is three blind mice, also believed to represent Queen Mary the First Bloodlust. The speculation for this one is said to be because Mary blinded then executed three Protestant bishops. The Oxford Martyrs in fifteen fifty-five. Other legends and records indicate that these three bishops were burned at the stakes, not blinded. This led to some to believe that the blindness is a philosoph is philosophical for the fact that they were blind to the truth of God since they were not Catholic. The next one is Lungden Bridge is falling down, which I knew had some relevance to history, but um some of the some of the speculations that were brought up I was not aware of. The rhyme alludes to two different events in history: a decaying bridge or a violent Viking invasion. The original Lungdon Bridge was but a narrow crossing over the Thames, which with nineteen narrow arches that impeded river traffic. The bridge was nearly destroyed by fires in both 1633 and 1666. You guys, I am sorry. We may have some frequent interruptions as we did um kind of bring in two cats, uh, and they know just the right time to be active, and that is right in the middle of recording. So we're still trying to get everything acclimated while they play around while we record. Even as the bridge was widened over the years, it still had a held a reputation for constant repairs. A more sinister explanation comes from the year 1014. Although scholars debate the validity of the attack, this refers to the destruction of the bridge by the Viking Olaf II. The line My Fair Lady is thought to refer to Matilda of Scotland, which was there from 1080 to 108 or 1118, sorry, um, who built many bridges, or Eleanor Eleanor of Province, who had custody of bridge revenues from 1269 to 1291. So the most well-known verse is London Bridges falling down, falling down, falling down, London Bridges Falling Down, my fair lady. However, the Viking poem is said to be related to the act of the attack of 1014, which is London Bridges falling down, gold is one, bright and bright renown, shields resounding, war horns sounding, healed ish shouting, in the den, arrow singing, mail coach ringing, Odin makes our Olaf win. There's also theories of bodies being found in the fountains of the bridge or foundations of the bridge that fueled the theories of human sacrifices were used to keep the bridge standing.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

I don't know who Odin is, I'm just trying to get the reference here.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Uh the god Odin. Yes, I know who Odin is theorized to be the reason why the Viking Olaf won. Like it was his power that brought him upon victory. So the next one I've actually never heard of this nursery rhyme. Oranges and lemons. This is a rhyme, again, I have not personally heard of. This British rhyme is said to have multiple sinister theories behind it. There is one thing for sure that the bells throughout the rhyme refers to chimes of specific church bells in London, to which many survive to this day. Old Bailey was a medieval courthouse without bells. This indicated that the subject of the song may be an trouble for their debt, perhaps even leading to their execution by beheading. However, some suggest the final gruesome lines refer to Henry VIII's habit of executing his wives. It is said that the final lines are not always included in modern day versions of the rhyme hinting the gruesome past. And then I'm sure we'll we're all pretty familiar with the theories behind Ring Around the Rosie. Probably one that you know we all have heard of when it comes to the true meaning behind the rhyme, but of course, with this dark past, it had to be added to the episode. This one links to a recent episode that we covered on the bubonic plague, a ring around the rosy, maybe referring to the foul-smelling rash formed on the skin when they contracted the plague. Of course, what could cover the smell? A pocket full of posies. There's two different versions of the rhymes, one ending in a tissue, a tissue, referring to a sneezing from the plague, and the more commonly known as ashes, ashes, we all fall down, referring to the inevitable death that came from the plague. Next on the list is Baba Black Sheep. The iconic nursery rhyme is actually about a medieval wool tax. This tax was imposed in the 1200s by King Edward I of England. The law stated that one-third of a sack of wool went to him, one-third went to the church, and the remaining one-third was left with the farmer. There were also superstitions behind the rhyme stating that a black that black sheep were believed to be bad luck because the dark wool was unable to be dyed. This nursery rhyme doesn't necessarily have the darkest side, but it certainly does show that taxes are a bitch no matter what time we are living in. The next one is Jack and Jill. This nursery rhyme is believed to allude to the dangers of child birth. Like, honestly, I seriously had no clue Jack and Jill had a dark meaning behind it. What the hell? Especially about birthing a child. One popular theory says that when Jill went into labor, Jack ran down to fetch her a pail of water to aid in the childbirth and died when he fell down the hill, and Jill went tumbling after, to which is not exactly known whether she died during or after the birth. Humpty Dumpty. I have heard many theories behind the true meaning of this rhyme. However, the one that I most commonly found when researching these topics was that it related to the Civil War. A relation comes from a cannon used during the war. Supposedly the Royalist faction mounted a cannon known as Humpty Dumpty on a wall to fire upon parliamentarians when they retreated or when they returned fire and damaged the wall, the cannon fell and was unable to be repaired or replaced by the Royalist Army or the King's men. Goosey goosey gander. Um another one to do with religious turmoil. This one refers to Catholic priests hiding from prosecution. Of course, the old man would be the priest. The priest hole would be where they would hide in secret location to speak their prayer in Latin and evade persecution by King Henry VIII and his children. When these priests were found, they were punished by being thrown down the stairs, and a lot of times it was a lot worse than that. Rockaby Baby. Supposedly, the baby in the Rhyme is supposed to be King James II's son. However, it is thought it was actually another man's child, believed to be smuggled in the birthing room to guarantee the Catholic air. The cradle is a literal cradle or the royal house of Stuart. Being on the treetop indicates being next to the line of succession. However, the wind is thought to be the Protestant forces gaining power in England, causing the cradle to fall down out of power. It is also said that the earliest rendition of the rhyme included a footnote saying this may serve as a warning to the proud and ambitious who climb so high that they generally fall at last. Here we go around the mulberry bush. It is said that the lyrics of this rhyme may actually describe the conditions of a woman's prison. Supposedly it is unknown what the rhyme is actually referring to, but the leading theories state that the mulberry bush in question stood at HMP Wakefield, a woman's prison in West Yorkshire. It is said that the female prisoners and even their children would walk around the tree as a form of exercise. And fun fact, the mulberry bush at Yorkshire Prison Prison actually died in 2017. However, they made plans to replant it after cutting from the grown tree after a cutting from the grown tree were tracked down. This one is well known one, and even the theory behind it should be well known. Although it is also theorized that it that the lies and it's raining is pouring, is referring to a man that has drunk too much alcohol and is becoming too clumsy, being the reason he hit his head in the first place. Although there are some that say the theory behind it is literal rain that caused him to slip and fall. Either way, the rhyme refers to a head injury and the line couldn't get up in the morning, either refers to the fact that he was either too hung over or more sinisterly, he died of a concussion in his sleep. This is another rhyme that I was I had not necessarily heard of, but it was definitely been fun learning about the new ones and their origins. This one specifically expresses The importance of asking for help, so it doesn't necessarily have a gruesome origin, other than the fact that the lady inevitably dies from her decisions not to ask for help. It builds from her swallowing a fly. God only knows why. Huh. I'm rhyme. I can rhyme too. To swallowing a spider to get the fly. It then builds to her swallowing a bird, a cat, a dog, a goat, so on and so forth until she gets to a horse. And of course, in the end, with her dying, the moral of the rhyme is to ask for help when it's needed by kids. Pop goes the weasel. There's a lot of meaning behind this rhyme, and I didn't realize until I had actually decided to research this specific topic. But this rhyme is supposed to depict the hardships of living in poverty. Popping was the term used in the 19th century England for pawning off their belongings, and weasel was meant to represent coat. I guess you can kind of say it could be used to depict current times. Some also theorize that weasel is a fabric weaving machine that makes a popping sound, which is also used to reflect the lives of ordinary working people. Peter Peter pumpkin eater. Apparently there are a couple theories behind this rhyme. One theory claims that Peter just might be a murderer. With this theory, it is said that Peter's wife was a prostitute, and because he couldn't help keep he couldn't keep her to himself, he killed her and stored her body in a pumpkin. That had to have been a pretty big pumpkin, huh? The second theory suggests that his wife was unfaithful and the pumpkin shell actually represented a chastity belt. Rub a dubdub. This one actually stems from 14th century, where a tub was a carnival attraction similar to a peep show where men could watch women do things like undress and bathe. The original version of the rhyme: the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker are watching three maids in a tub, and the rhyme we recite today is not actually how it was originally meant to be. It was redone to clean it up a little per se. So the original rhyme is supposedly said to go, hey, rub a dub dub ho rub a dub through Hey, rub a dub ho, rub a dub, three maids in a tub, and who do you think were there? The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, and all of them gone to the fair. Eeny meeny miny mo, this isn't the innocent counting rhyme that we may have thought it was. This rhyme may actually have sacrificial and racist origins to it. Depending on the part of the world you are hearing this from, there are actually different variations of it. However, no matter how or where you're hearing it from, it is said that the nonsense words actually come from an ancient Celtic counting ritual used to select someone to die as a sacrifice. A lot of children use this one as a game to choose a player on Mo. It was used in the same way in the past, just in a more gruesome way. Little known fact about this one is prior to the 1950s, in place of the word tiger used to rhyme, they used a derogatory term for African American. Row row, row your boat, what seems to be an uplifting tune of a tune of a rhyme might have actually been inspiration for existential crisis, which starts out as an inspirational tune of determination, and general life ends with the line, life is but a dream, which is to imply that life on earth is short and will inevitably end in death. But be merry while you can. So that is all I have for today, guys. A little short one, but I hope you guys enjoyed some of the dark history behind the rhymes that we sing to our children, and maybe we will think twice before singing some of these rhymes to our children anymore. I know I certainly did. Um when I began to find out about some of these, I definitely was not a nursery rhyme mom because I knew a lot of the true meaning behind some of them. But um, as always, if you have other um rhymes that you guys are aware of, the history behind, you can email them to us or even other cultures that have rhymes that maybe we haven't heard of. That would be an interesting one. But you can email us at ghost and gavel all one word at gmail.com. And then of course we have our uh social yeah, we have our sorry, brain fart. We have our social media pages, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. And again, guys, I know I'm sorry we haven't been keeping up very well on those as we should. Um we're trying to do better at that. We our main thing was that we're making sure there is an episode out every week for you guys. That was the most of most importance. Um, so we'll definitely work on um some time management when it comes to our social medias. But Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Ghost and Gavel on all three of those. Go check us out for updates. Like I said, we'll try to do a little bit more better at um putting those updates on there, but I know we haven't posted in a couple weeks. Have a great week, everyone.