Episode 21 Conspiracy Theories of Hitler

Join Sabryna and Joey on Ghost and Gavel as we talk about all of the theories around Hitler and his death. A perfect episode to lead off 4/20.

Don’t forget to follow us on facebook, Instagram, and TikTok Ghost and Gavel. If you have your own stories that you want o share or something that. You would like us to research and cover email us at ghostandgavel@gmail.com.

Sources:
Wikipedia
Google
Historyextra.com
History.com
Historyanswers.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Ghosty Gavel with Joey and Sabrina. On this week's episode is episode 21, and we're handed a microphone over to Sabrina.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

First off, first off, happy 420. We're going to be taking a trip down the history books again, with today being 420, April 20th. So roll one up, sit back, and share one with us as you listen to different um conspiracy theories about Hitler. We could contribute today to many different things, like I said. Roll one up and take a few hits for us. However, there is one thing particularly that fits in this topic. Like I said, we're going to talk about Hitler. Going back to World War II, of course. Also, forgive me as I do know a little bit of German pronunciation, but it's been a while since I really studied the language. So I may mispronounce things. You can come at me in the comments. That's okay. I also know that a lot, like here in America, um, in different parts of the country, they use different dialects, so I may not quite get that right when it comes to German. I guess it depends on which part of the country you're in. Of course, we are well aware of the war theories that revolve around anti-Semitism, but I wanted to dig a little deeper into the theories around Hitler himself. Some of these are fairly popular and well-known ones, however, some of the details were new to me as well as some that were a little less reported on. The first conspiracy theory we're going to cover is one that suggests he did not die in the Berlin bunker in 1945, but yet escaped to South America. So I think many of us have heard about this theory. However, historical evidence and forensic analysis of his teeth say to have confirmed that he did in fact die in the bunker in Berlin. This theory is fueled by the escape of other Nazis, such as Adolf Eichmann, I want to say, in South America. The myths suggest that Hitler also got away via submarine, and allegedly he lived in either Argentina or Colombia until the 50s or 60s. These claims are often contributed to the misuse of the 1950s CIA reports that documented that were documented, however, did not verify sightings of Hitler in South America. These claims are now often dismissed by intelligence agencies as unreliable. There was even one theory that I found that revolved around our great old state of Kentucky. It is said that one William Henry Johnson of Middlesbrough, Kentucky, began sending letters out in 1946 claiming to be Hitler and stating that he had escaped with Eva Braun. Johnson mailed these letters out to people of German descent in Kentucky, Virginia, and Tennessee, plotting a revolution and alleging that he had invisible spaceships. What was the motive behind these letters? Well, it was to solicit money, and he had actually successfully obtained about ten to fifteen thousand dollars in the period of doing so.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Just over an invisible spaceship.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

An invisible spaceship, and he was going to create a revolution. Yes. Forensic analysis in 2018 of a fragment of his jawbone and various teeth held onto by Russian authorities, confirmed they belonged to Hitler with lead pathologist Felipe Charles or Charles stating this study proves that Hitler died in 1945. The study found evidence of the consumption of cyanide. We'll discuss that a little bit later on, because I have more on that. And a gunshot to the head.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Okay, but are they just going it off by the teeth and dental records, or did they have dental records back then?

SPEAKER_00 6:42

That's what they're going off of. Um I believe it was DNA. They did have a lot of medical records on Hitler, actually. We're gonna get into that too. Um just some theories that came up and um uh consisting of his medical records and how they were able to prove a couple other things. Going even further about his escape, there is another baseless theory that suggests that he escaped to the moon. I mean, discussing the theories of the moon landing, uh apparently, you know, some theories claim that we couldn't even get there, so are we contributing that Germany maybe got there sooner? And it was done by Hitler.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

I'm sorry, but if I was alive back then and uh heard that those were the theories or rumors back then, it would just be pushed to believe that no, he's still alive somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Um These theories are more often linked to sci-fi tropes that suggest Nazis built secret high-tech base on the moon in nineteen forty-five.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

If I was alive back then, it'd just be taken. Where is he at?

SPEAKER_00 8:36

He was on the moon. I mean a you know. If if he was celebrating his birthday on on four twenty, then then maybe he did take a rocket ship somewhere.

unknown 8:51

Imaginary rocket ship.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

This theory was widely circulated in pop culture with examples like the nineteen forty-seven novel Rocket Ship Galileo. This theory stems from supposed Nazi activity in Antarctica or the reason NASA had seized moon missions. There are also claims that came from the fact that some Nazi scientists were brought to the US via Operation Paperclip to work on the space program. You good over there? Oh, it gets funnier. I I know, I I know World War II isn't a laughing matter, but some of the things that came from this, like it had me rolling doing the research. We'll get to that. Again, another theory suggesting that Hitler had faked his death and escaped a body double. The Soviet Union claims that immediately after capturing Berlin in May 1945, Soviet officials publicly stated that they had not definitely identified Hitler's body and even made the suggestion that he may have escaped. It is now said this was likely a duplicate tactic by Joseph Stalin to fuel paranoia among Western allies. Soviets did find several bodies with some resemblance to Hitler, including one with a gunshot wound to the forehead, which had been filmed and initially thought to be him. This body was later identified as a man, Gustav Wheeler or Wheler, as a political decoy. Other places that Hitler was claimed to be seen after the war was in the U.S. directly, places like New York, Virginia, California, and Missouri. These were claims and declassified documents deemed uncredible. See, that was something I didn't know either, like that there were so many states he was claimed to be found in. I knew there were theories about him being in America. I didn't know the states exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

If so, I would probably see him more being in northern states versus southern states back then.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

I mean California goes pretty far north and south. And then there was New York on the list.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

New York is a considered northern state. Yeah. California is a west.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

And then Virginia, which is more of an Eastern Yeah, but it's closer to the East Coast as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Right. That's why I don't want to Hitler would have been in Virginia. I would more see like New York or California.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Just because back then the racism and everything.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, but you know, you gotta think he he looked for white blonde hair, blue eyes. He he so I mean if you're talking in that sense, like yes, in the north for the whites, more of the fact. Um, I mean, I could see him towards the south to eradicate in that sense. So I can see kind of where that plays in. I mean, coming out of World War II, we were coming into the age of trying to be more inclusive in the US. Uh it was there was still a lot of division, but it was around World War II that you know the United States did try to become a little more inclusive. From the time that Hitler first gained power, there were theories that developed how he gained such strong such a strong hand. There were explanations put into writing. An example is in the 1973 writing by Trevor Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, the occult power behind the spear which pierced the side of Christ. In this piece, uh it was revealed how a struggling artist in Vienna, Adolf Hitler, had been captivated by a by Torgeide's tale of the holy lance, A.K. Hofberg's spear. One of the crown jewels of the Holy Roman Emperors. The spear was said to be the spear of destiny used by Roman legendary to pierce the side of Christ at the crucifixion.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

And how is the spear like representative for Hitler, or is this just a book?

SPEAKER_00 15:26

This was more of a piece of writing, but I get into the details a little bit more. As a source for the tale, Ravenscroff claimed to have befriended the German immigrant, occult writer Walter Johannes. We are gonna start the shenanigans already. Not even a couple pages in, and of course the shenanigans have to be added. Towards the end of his life. Stein passed, oh, Johann Stein towards the end of his life. Stein passed in 1957, and Raven Scroft related how he had studied in history under him before being given access to the scholars' copious archives by the man's widow after his passing. There were a few different adaptations of this theory, and it is said that Hitler did have an interest in the occult, however, he was interested in it primarily as a device, as something uniquely German with which to bind the Volk or bind the people. So he was interested in cults basically to bring his people together. According to the Imperial Treasury itself, the Hofburg spear dates from the eighth century, while other independent chemical tests in two thousand and three says the seventh century. Either way, it is far too modern to match mythology. It is said he did in fact loot the imperial treasury, but he did so with the view of its symbolic power rather than its otherworldly potential. The possession was said to basically bring authority onto his new successor. So by holding the spear, it made him more of an authoritarian. It brought that success to him. The next theory suggests that Hitler had children. It is generally accepted by historians that he did not, in fact, have children. However, there are few claims of children, although not proven. There is one that claims an encounter with a French woman in 1917 led to a son named Jean-Marie Lorray or Loret. Something like that. I'm not French either, so forgive me. It is said that it is listed on his birth certificate. His father is an unknown soldier, however, his mother had admitted near death that she did have an affair with Hitler. DNA of Hitler's descendants, as well as those of Jean Marie, are not said to be a match. I will also explain later why him being the son of Hitler is not a likely theory. The next theory states that propaganda often associated him closely with the children of. The next theory states that propaganda often associates him closely with the children of Joseph and Magda Goebbels. Lead to the theories about his personal life, however, these are not his children. As of 2023, only three members of the broader Hitler family bloodline nephew to him were living. All of which had no children of their own, which would effectively end the direct bloodline upon their death. Now, this is gonna be a short one because I'm actually starting to get to the end. Now, as we come to the end of our short little episode for 420, I figured I would save the this theory for last to lighten the mood a bit for such a harsh topic. Another reason it is claimed that Hitler did not have children was because he only had one testicle.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

And that's still enough.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

But let me get into it a little bit more. Once said to be a long-standing rumor and popular wartime joke could possibly be supported by historical medical records or a DNA analysis. However, the evidence remains contested. The theory gained prominence during World War II due to a popular British song literally titled Hitler only Hitler Has Only Got One Ball. The strategical lyrics were designed to take a stab at his masculinity and were widely sung by Allied troops to boost morale. Okay. From medical examination conducted when Hitler was admitted into Landsberg prison in 1923 after a failed beer haul. I'm not sure how to pronounce that. Um, but basically it is a quick and dirty attempt to overthrow the government. So that's why he was arrested then. States that Hitler suffered from right-sided cryptochitticism or condition where the testicle fails to descend. So he didn't technically have one testicle, just it's claimed that one testicle failed to descend. Some claim that he potentially lost a testicle during the battle in World War II, during a battle in World War I in 1916 due to shrapnel wounds. However, the report from 1923 suggests that this was also a myth. It is stated that yes, he had been wounded. However, the wound is said to be on the thigh. However, in the documentary, Hitler's DNA blueprint of a dictator, where they examined the DNA from a bloodstained piece of fabric believed to be from the sofa in which Hitler took his own life in the bunker, suggested he may have had a condition called Kalman syndrome. This condition is known to hinder puberty and increase the chance of underdeveloped testicles or not allow the testicle to descend at all. It would also leave the potential for a micropenis. All of this being said, it makes all of the allegations of sexual relationships less likely to be true because the condition would hinder his ability to obtain and keep an erection without medication. Yep. So without having that little blue pill, he couldn't keep it hard. It's a good thing you don't have that problem, right? Although the film addresses the possibility of many medical issues such as tremors as well as mental disorders, including things like autism, the expert in the film emphasizes that genetic markers do not equal definitive diagnosis of any medical illnesses. Or mental illnesses, not medical. All in all, historians say that many of these theories were brought to light by many neo-Nazis as they refused to believe that their leader had died such a cowardly death. So what are the theories that you have heard about World War II or Hitler?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

That it is rumored that one of Hitler's relatives, kids or rumored kids uh done an interview many, many years back, and they gave the reporter uh uh some of Hitler's authentic uh German what's it called outfits and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

But maybe just a distant relative I've seen something about that, but I have not been able to find it.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Neither have I. This was this was prior to all that Hitler documentaries and all of that appeared on like Netflix and all of them.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Did you happen to find the song?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yes, I did find the song.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Well, why not give our audience a little laugh to finish things up? Well, I think we got the gist of that, but you know, we don't want any copyright issues, so we'll go ahead and leave it off. Thank you. I hope everybody has a very happy 420. I hope you guys are able to take a few puffs-puffs and pass for us. Show us some love. Don't forget to get on our social medias, Ghost and Gavel on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. And of course, whatever service you are listening to our podcast from, give us a rating, leave comments, let us know how we're doing, and if you guys would like to contribute um with any of your personal experiences, history facts that you would like us to look into, true crimes that you would like us to look into, shoot us an email, ghost and gavel at gmail.com. Happy Monday and have a great week, you all. Bye.