Popcorn for the Soul

School of Rock Part 2: Interview w/ Emily Ialacci, Teacher and my Best Friend

• Episode 22

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School these days, huh?

"You're more than a test but test test test!" 

Join me and Emily, my best-friend-since-high-school, soulmate, and accountability partner while we discuss her day-to-day as an *amazing* fourth-grade teacher and how beautiful it is to do, but also how hard and exhausting it is to maintain.  

She's one of the good ones, folks. All around. 

I left in some of our shenanigans because, well...ya gotta have 'em.

May your children get the chance to have a teacher like her, and may you have a friend with whom you can be like this. 

Keep watching, reading, listening, and weaving - the answers are waiting for you!

With unending love,

Katie

Medium: medium.com/@genofvenus

SPEAKER_03

Howdy ho, Ranger Joes, and welcome to Popcorn for the Soul, a podcast where I decode spirituality and universal guidance in our favorite pop culture. My name is Katie, student of life, lover of stories, and cosmic weaver pulling at the threads that connect it all. However, this week I have another friend who is going to help me do so. And this is not just any friend, this is the friend, my best friend, a soulmate, my go-to person for those validating yet productive because we hold each other accountable conversations that we talked about in last week's part one to this part two episode. And most relevant title to this conversation that we are going to be having, teacher. And let me put a giant asterisk of a subtitle under that teacher. One of the good ones. Folks, if she wasn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wouldn't be talking to her. I would not be inviting her into this space. But as mentioned, she is my best pal. So we're gonna do it and we're gonna do it good. Okay, so I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna say, Hi babe. Hi babe.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no. I thought we were that was like a practice. Okay. Hi, babe.

SPEAKER_03

Hey, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Good, other than the fact that I'm like halfway across the country from you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I wish you were sitting next to me, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_03

But you know, it's okay. I also don't have the microphone set up for that. So I think this is actually working to our advantage for the time being.

SPEAKER_00

But you know, always works out the way we need it to.

SPEAKER_03

See, folks, that's why she's here. She gets it, she gets it. Um, yeah, so so excited for this because the other thing about our conversations is that they always end up being this like dissection analysis of the microcosm of our lives and how it goes into the microcosm. Whoops, she meant macrocosm of societal issues and expectations and this stuff at large. And I just think if more people were comfortable enough to have the discussions the way that we do and really get deep and also not call each other out, but you know how we do. We, you know, we say, well, wait a minute, let's back up, let's see. Can we take responsibility for something in this situation and all that kind of stuff? But just and you know, other topics that we have already discussed that we will be talking about in future episodes, and I'm winking at you because I know they make you a little uncomfortable, but I think they are extremely important. Um, I just think if we could show more people, especially friends who are already super comfortable with each other, how to do this and like it be fun and enjoyable instead of just talking about, you know, I don't know, useless stuff. Surface level stuff, surface level, you know. Um change could happen a lot more quickly, and like the ripple effects could just take effect on a mass scale because I think we're just everyone's so afraid, and we talk about this all the time. Everyone's so afraid to just freaking communicate, just tell us that you are but to be fair, it takes time, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it takes time and we learn, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And what we have been best friends since 2009. Is that the date we gave to it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it would have been 2009, my senior year, 910, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, and we were friends for you know, whatever, and then in 2018 is when I moved to Los Angeles, and we were apart for seven, six, seven years, and you know, some crap went down in between, and that's gonna be conversations for other episodes.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, lots of things went down, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it was like we we grew individually to come back to be able to have these conversations hundred percent. So, yeah. So we're gonna kick it off. Um, I'm gonna give you the threads that I pulled that I was like, this is just where we're gonna start. Um because you know, we start where we start and then we brain tunnel million different places. We love a brain tunnel, we do, we do, and we just let it flow. Okay, so the first thing, and this I did talk about like in detail on last episode. So I'll just sum it up really quick. Um, one of the days I was subbing, I was in a hallway where, and you know, I stand outside the door between every hour, right? And in this hallway, it happened to be that three other like female teachers uh came out and also did the same thing, and in between they were asking me questions about like, oh, you know, you sub in here and were you just in footloose and da-da-da-da-da. So it eventually got to the fact that I had been a nurse, and one of the teachers was like, Oh, my daughter's a nurse, and I wanted to just give her like a little heads up. Like, I'm not saying it's automatically gonna happen, but my experience, the experience of all the nurses I know, you know, burnout, blah blah blah blah blah. I got in more detail, but ultimately I said, Um, the turnover rate is crazy, nurses are not taken care of whatsoever. Not saying it'll happen, I'm just giving you a heads up. And her response while she was looking around and making eye contact with the other teachers was, huh, kind of sounds like teaching these days. This certainly didn't turn out to be all that was promised. So I was like, I know very little of the day-to-day specifics of that, but I can just see the overall understanding of that, just going to a school every day. And then, of course, I know from our conversations and all of that, but that's where I was like, So to get the specifics, I'm bringing on my friend. So that and then um some of the sticky notes. So this was uh from a specific day that I subbed where the kids used my jar as eventing to get out how much they did not like the teacher that I was subbing for. So I'll just read those really quick. Um, quote, I genuinely hate blank, they are so rude and don't spend time trying to get to know their students. I play this sport and always talk about it, but I'm sure they don't even know that. I want to go play so bad. I feel like school is a jail. I know we need school, but I don't want to go. Blank, the teacher, sucks. Unquote. Oh my gosh. Um, I know. Quote, I really enjoy the brightness you bring to class. Blank is not a very good teacher at all. They run this room like a jail. They make me want to leave school every day when I really want to be here, unquote. And then the last one, quote, and this girl, I was kind of like kind of overhearing the conversation between one who I think put one of these like mean ones in there, talking to this girl, and she's like, This is what I wrote, and she's like, Well, you're wrong, your opinion is wrong. And it was just like, so this girl wrote, quote, hot take blank is misunderstood and stressed out. If I were a teacher, I'd act the same way. Unquote.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's someone that might have a little insight, awareness, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, okay, and then this is the line from School of Rock. Um, so it's the principal, uh, Miss Mullins. And she's talking to Jack Black about um how she like used to be fun because they just came from the bar where he like got her drunk and you know, um snuck in that he wanted to get him on a field trip, which is problematic, but moving on. Um, so she says, because when it comes to their kids, these parents have no sense of humor. And if anything goes wrong, it's my head, all right? It's my head in the smasher. These parents will come down on me like a nuclear bomb. I can't make a mistake. I gotta be perfect. And that pressure has turned me into one thing that I never wanted to be. And she silent me silently mouths a bitch. Unquote. So those are my threads, and let's just kick it off with your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00

This is literally like an interview, and I suck at interviews.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, wait, it is an interview, but it's not because it's just a conversation between friends. Listen, folks, we might slip into accents.

SPEAKER_00

We might just things might just happen. There's a lot of thoughts. I think it's what do we always say? Two things can be true at the same time, right? Two things can be true at the exact same time. The student that doesn't like their teacher at all, like doesn't like they play sports, like doesn't seem they think to care. That can absolutely be true. That teacher could absolutely maybe not care at all, could be going in for a paycheck, walking out, they're noticing it, they're taking it in, whatever. But then the awareness of that, the third student that's like this person could potentially be sober and out, they don't know what to do, like that could absolutely be true too. Does it make it right? No. And the thing that I always say, especially in my classroom, is I am 33 years old, my frontal lobe is closed, I should have the ability to be able to be more mature or be the one that's able to figure it out. I have nine and ten year olds, they shouldn't be able to do that yet. So it's my job to try and whatever. But these are also high school students, so I think still they might struggle too, but I think definitely two things can be true at once. So that's a hard pill to swallow. I would never want a kid to feel that way about me. Yeah, like hurts my soul, right?

SPEAKER_03

And the one who said about the um the sports, and like you know, they don't ask me about it or anything, that student's mom is a teacher. And they had told me so. So it's like he also has that example in his life.

SPEAKER_00

So true. Well, and it's like I make it a goal in my classroom when kids tell me, like, I've gone to many a sporting events this year, volleyball, baseball, basketball. Because they talk about it, they care about it, and I want to show up for them. Because there are days in my classroom where I don't get it right. I don't get it right. And so if I can show up in other ways, then that is something I will always try and do. So, but it's the other uh the other interesting thing about the principal using the word, are we are we allowed to cuss?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yes. I always check the box that says contains explicit material.

SPEAKER_00

Um, the one that says like that she became a bitch. I get that so much, also. Like there is a certain standard that I have to uphold every day in my classroom and make sure that I am not not that I would ever cross the line, but like anything that I do, whether it's in a emotional way caring for my kids, or whether it's disciplining or whether it's teaching them the right thing, there is always, always, always something that could come back and bite me in the butt. And then I sit there all night and I perseverate on it. My favorite word, perseverate. I perseverate on it. Um, and I think like, shoot, did I do that right today? Like, it is not a drop and go job. If anyone, ooh, don't get me started. No, get started. Let's go. If anyone tries to tell me the whole, like, you get summers off. I wish you could see my face right now.

SPEAKER_03

Scary. It looks good, no.

SPEAKER_00

And it's anger. I do actually work in the summer, but also I am constantly changing and adapting every single day. Even like if we take the summer away, right? Every night I come home. I still get parent messages. I could I could turn off there. Here we go. See, this is where I start to struggle because I have so many thoughts going at one time.

SPEAKER_03

And then I'm Oh, this is great. This is great.

SPEAKER_00

We have a way in our apps at school that we can do office hours, right? Any any job has an office hour, right? So my contracted time in class is 8 15 to 3 45. That's the time I have to be at school. I am at school 7:30, 745 till 4, 4.15 every single day. Okay. There are times where parents reach out to me and I'm like, all right, yeah, let's talk at 7:30 in the morning or whatever. Or I'm sitting at home and I get the message to my phone because I'm just not that teacher. I get the message and I have to respond. I don't want them to wait. I want them to know that I care. Is that a boundary I need to? And then there's other teachers like, well, I don't do that. And you're setting it up for like, you're setting me up to look bad because I don't want to answer. And I'm like, I don't think that's the case either. It's there's so many things that go into it. And it's just frustrating because having to think so much all the time during the day, and then come home and continue to think about it and worrying if you're doing it right, and then being like, Well, that person hates me now, and that's gonna set off the rest. And what are they talking about? Me at home is it hearing about their kid, and then they come to class and it's this constant cycle. I can't imagine teachers that are also parents. I'm not a parent, they have to come home and they've got to like do it all at home. Like, I don't know, that's a whole different story, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03

No, I feel like we could have 50 episodes just about you being a teacher because well, and I think when I first noticed that and like saw it in action was uh you were babysitting, baby, and you were holding him, and then you gave him to me, and it wasn't even like, oh, now I get to take a break and relax. You were on your phone because of that, uh, the project with the whois these books or whatever. The who was project, yeah, and then student, yeah, the one student whose dad messaged you and you know had said they had no idea that yeah, I love you.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, no, it's um yeah, it's give you the baby and then it's like back back to work. And it's like, how many times can I commute? And then it's this like level of I've communicated it almost I know for a fact weekly, I purposefully send a weekly email that my team and I collaborate together on to make sure everything is hit, and then I even send like random spurts of them. And so, like when someone comes to me and says, Hey, we had no idea that this was happening, they aren't gonna have this. It's disheartening. It's like I do this work all day. I'm trying to make your child successful, and I get that you have things going on at home too. But at some point, where is where's the the where are we bridging the gap at? Because then it comes like it's my fault. Did I not then I I got home and I'm like, did I not send things out? And then I have to go back and I read through everything because that's the teacher that I am.

SPEAKER_03

Right, right. Yeah, and it's like it's not just oh, I'm dealing with this parent, whatever, because then it becomes about you calling this other teacher and this person that so it's never like it's just like this whole cascading thing of like it's not just one and done, I took care and responded to a parent email. It's just like because that's the thing, and it's like this other where has the respect for teachers in general gone, and under parents understanding that teachers absolutely help raise your children, depending on your job and your situation, there's a good chance that your teachers see your children more than you do.

SPEAKER_00

180 some odd days a year, five days a week for six or seven hours a day.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, constantly. And then the kids go home and their parents are tired from work. Right. They don't want to help with homework. They don't, they're like, Well, I have a million emails that I'm checking from my work, so why would I want to read this email from your teacher?

SPEAKER_00

Right. And I've even heard from some of my like closest friends who are parents slash teachers that it's like it's coming home in so many different ways. It's paper and then it's online, and then it's this and then it's that, and then you need this and you need that, and it's like we can't please everybody. And how again, it's one of those moments, it's like, how am I supposed to bridge this gap and and make it right for every single person?

SPEAKER_03

Right. And that is interesting. Why isn't there a cohesive way to communicate?

SPEAKER_00

We hit it this year. We have something this year that we use that uh school um, what's the right word? Um, like sports teams use it throughout the school. We use it as teachers. It is something that we were told like we have to communicate this way. We can't communicate through any other way. We have to communicate this way, and it gets blasted out. It's an app. I actually really like it. All of my stuff goes in one spot. We can do signups through it, like everything. And I'm still hearing from people, ah, this another, another, just another app, another something that we have to do. And I'm like, I don't know what you want from me. I'm only one person. I'm only one person.

SPEAKER_03

And that's the other thing. And I said that in the the part one of this episode. It's like this the students are feeling the burnout because the teachers are feeling the burnout, because the admins are feeling the burnout, because the up and up and up are feeling the burnout, because nobody's being taken care of. Nobody's truly nobody wants to take care of each other.

SPEAKER_00

And that's like the truly the the downfall of it all. True. I I feel like when it comes back, when everything, everything we've talked about, not today, just you and I at school today, all this stuff all boils down to communication. How people like to be communicated with what their preference is, well, it's what my preference is. Well, what is what it's your child need? Like, there's so many different ways, and it really boils down to like not being able to please everybody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I had asked you that one night in my basement. Um, that sounds so creepy, guys. My basement is fully furnished. It's like a theater room, you know, whatever, fireplace, it's real nice. Um, real nice. I said, okay, and this is kind of how I do a lot of my conversations, ideal worlds, like the perfect, there's no questions about it, just considering everything as far as taking care of each child at, you know, in every way that they need to, because of course they all have their own stuff going on outside of school, blah blah blah blah blah, emotionally, physically, mentally. And then now looking at it, you know, parents-wise, I said, what is like the golden student to teacher ratio? And you said six to one.

SPEAKER_00

Because that's considered like a small group, a big small group is like six to one. Yeah, and what are you rocking with? 27. 27, two with IEPs, which in the state, like this is not saying I'm actually saying this, but per the state, an IEP student counts as two kids. Oh, like if you go of a certain enough number, you actually get like a stipend to um get paid more from those. So I technically, if you think about it, have 29 kids.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, and for those who don't know what is an IEP, um, an individualized education plan.

SPEAKER_00

So student that's got a disqualifying disability that would need them to have um specialized instruction in the classroom.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, and in your world that means that two of your students have one-on-one AIDS.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, not and it's not always that they have to have an aid, but both of mine in my room do have AIDS. So three adults in my room that I'm also managing, and not in like a bad way, but you have to, you know, you guide each other, you help each other. So there's three adults plus 27 kids.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I want to come back to that, but I do just want to point out for info purposes, in the high school, the so I remember like the English class I subbed for, there were like four boys all with IEPs, sitting at the same table. And then I also subbed for his co-teacher, right? Who then has her own separate class where it was just like five students with IEPs and they're just catching up on their work or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Um, yeah, that's what she her main thing is.

SPEAKER_03

So um Um, what was I gonna say? Oh yeah, and then it was like that table was not a problem table, but they all struggle to focus, right? Yeah, and it was to the point where one of them was literally upsetting another one, like you could see it in his face, and he was getting extremely frustrated, and I had to make the one move, you know. So it's just like so. It's also like, does it make sense for the IEPs to all be at the same table?

SPEAKER_00

That's the the big age old question. A lot of districts, a lot of schools, like when we talk like inclusion practices, like we want a lot of it is push-in. So we put a lot of students that have disabilities instead of pulling them out of the room and giving them more one-on-one instruction, they need to stay with their peers who are learning and they all stay in the classroom. But because they need a little bit more help, they put them at one table with the resource room teacher and they all work together. There are definitely times where that is not beneficial. And it becomes really challenging now that I've been on both sides, special ed and gen ed, that it's disheartening to have to pull kids out of the room that don't like to be singled out, like, hey, I have a disability. I mean, in my grade, it's not as common that they realize, like, oh, it's because I have a disability. It's just like, well, I have to go to this person's room for whatever, whatever. Um, but then it's also a disservice if I leave them in the room and not getting help because I can't give them individualized attention and they are learning at a level that is nowhere meeting their needs. So it's like, do we pull them out and make them feel uncomfortable? So they're learning at their level that's going to be successful for them, or do we leave them in a classroom where it's over their head and they're not being reached just so that they can fit in? Right. It's so icky. It's so and like nobody nobody has the answer. I'm not saying my school does it wrong, I'm not saying other schools do it right. I have been on both sides. I want kids to be in the classroom, but now as a gen ed teacher, it's really hard to be like they should always be in the room.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's really hard.

SPEAKER_03

So do you think again, because I'm like, let's get to the bottom of it. Yeah. So if because it's like there is no right answer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

To me, it seems like, and it's like the it's how is this to me this is the answer, but how do we get here? Teach kids that it's okay to be different, right? And uh other kids to be respectful of differences and stuff, because then because I feel like that, you know, that mentality about it is what makes it so difficult because it puts like a a stigma on it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, they're like a scarlet letter. It's like you are being pointed out as a person that doesn't know how to read.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. So it's like, how can we just get everyone to freaking love each other so that we can understand that some students need to, you know, step out for something certain, you know?

SPEAKER_00

It well, and that's not even to say, like that's I'm just talking pure academics here. Like, this is the way I'm talking to you right now, is literally just academically a disservice to keep them in the room, but then emotionally could be scarring to take them out of the room. That's just in an academic standpoint. What if we have students that are academically so incredibly strong, but behaviorally cause a lot of disruption to the kids in the classroom? And that is a big one, uh, the biggest one, because what is less tolerated these days, and I can't say that I'm perfect at it at all, is behaviors, purely behaviors in the room. Something again, when we talk inclusion and we push into the room, how important that is, but also I can't just advocate for the kid for the disability, even though like my heart is always there. You have to advocate for the 26 others you have. And if one student is causing a disruption, what do you do? You know what happens a lot, and not so much necessarily in my grade, but it's definitely was something when I was in my old job in special ed. Was did you do a sticker chart? Did I do a sticker chart? Yeah, I did a sticker chart. I just had a kid tell me that I was a bitch that didn't know shit and needed to go the fuck away.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and what what age was that?

SPEAKER_00

Uh he was a third grader.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So eight to nine. Well, see, can I tell you though? This is something that I'm so proud of. That student, first day he met me, said that to me, put his head in between a chair railing, said he was said he was gonna kill himself. It was it it was traumatized. This is my first day of school teaching ever. That student, that student comes to every single one of my shows. Now, his grandma and I are friends on Facebook. He hugs me every time I have photos with him, like, you know, it's that stuff, it's that stuff. But did it take tears on my end?

unknown

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

It took tears, lots of them, and so it's just really hard to and granted that was a room where it was all special eye kids, which I still think is a struggle, but even this year and two years ago, you know, I have teachers sitting like, How are you doing it? And I'm like, Some days I'm not, some days I am. I mean, like, we've talked about it, like without like me telling you names and things like that, um, like the days that I have and how I can reach one kid that's struggling so hard to just be in a room and 26 other kids that are staring at this student, and the students like, I want them to stop staring at me. I'm like, Well, person. Like, well, kid, you you have to you have to be aware that the things that you're doing are making these kids stare at you and they want to love you. There are days where everything is so good and they absorb each other, and it's such a good thing to see, and then there's other days where the student just pushes them away so far that it sets everyone off in the room, and it's like you can't be in here anymore because 26 kids are struggling because of the choices you're making. It's hard, man.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and we've talked about, and I don't know if this is like a broachable subject, but um how other teachers will like when class class rosters are being picked, they'll like try to curate to like a certain culture almost, or like environment, or you know, like type of family, and you are specifically like give me the challenge.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I have had I don't want to say this, hold on, let me think about it. Since starting in Gen Ed, my classroom has I I came in halfway through the year, and though the students on IEPs, there were six in the whole grade. Three of them were in my room, three of them were in another teacher's room, but they would come to that teacher's room with the push-in model that I was talking about. The resource room teacher would come in with all six of those kids that were on IEPs, plus the 25 others that were in the room. So it was causing 31 kids in the room. Um, that's what I came into. The next year, it was seven kids on IEPs placed in my classroom. There was 14 in the whole grade level. Those are those COVID kindergartners that I think that plays a little bit of a piece to that. So I had seven in my room. And then the third year, which was last year, I was not supposed to have an IEP room. And again, that's not something that I'm like, oh my gosh, it wasn't like that's not it. I'm just saying they just kind of bounce them around. It's just kind of how it works because it does add to your to your caseload. Um, and we at my team got so many new students that two of the new students ended up being on IEPs and they had to come in my room. So every classroom had kids on IEPs. I still had them. And then this year I had two kids. So I've had the IEP room every year, is what I'm trying to say. I don't remember what we were getting at with this.

SPEAKER_03

We were talking about you take the challenge.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so I'm never like, don't give me them. I firmly believe, and one of my other teachers, she she's um a grade level above me, she made the comment and she put it into words for me the way that I feel is that the kids that come in my classroom are the kids that need me. However, that ends up falling into place, it is fine. Now, would I love to have like someone that I knew from high school's kid? I mean, that'd be cool, and it's happened naturally on its own. Um, but it's never something I'm seeking. And sometimes it might even be a little bit more challenging because then you've got like a relationship outside that causes, could cause strife, never happen, but could. So firmly believe that the kids that I get in my room are meant to be my kids for a reason, and I will do everything in my power to make a connection with them. Again, I'm fully aware saying, Do I get it right all the time? Absolutely not. For the most part, I like to think I do. But I want them, and if at the end of the day, this might be a poor thing to say, but at the end of the day, if they didn't get long division down, I'd rather care that they were nice to somebody.

SPEAKER_03

That is the the exact opposite of a poor thing to say.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, like as a teacher, we we're data, we're we're data driven. Like it's always data data, higher test scores, we preach that kids don't like you're more than a test, but test, test, test, you're more than a test, test, test, test. Like, like it's this like never-ending like cycle. And so it's like when we went to go take this the state test, I looked at every single one of them. I said, make your eyes meet my eyes. I was like, I don't care how you do, I don't care how you do. I was like, this is just an opportunity to show you, me, your families, everything that you learned this year. So, do I want you to do your best? 110. Do I care what score you get? I do not. I do not. And so I care more. I preach at my class as a family for a reason. They need to treat each other with love and respect because we're together all the time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All the time.

SPEAKER_03

So, this is what I mean by the asterisk of one of the good ones, because you're you're fully aware of the the balancing act. It's not that you're just like test, test, test, or you're just like love, love, love. You understand that the balance needs to be there. Yes. And I think the way that you approach it, it's not just saying like yeah, okay, maybe you're like, I don't care what you what you score, but when you set it up, like this is a chance for you to showcase everything that you've learned to your parents, like that is that's putting it in their hands in a way that is empowering them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And like that goes with like there are so many we there's another test that we take three times a year. And I've always when I think about how I was as a student, my mom always said I was six months behind. So I was a young uh she did. No, I got out of mind. But like I uh graduated, I used to stop laughing. I was, I was always behind. The things her parents say to us. She still says it now. I love you, mom, but she still says it now. Um like when not like I'm behind now, she'll just say, like, yeah, when you were in school, you were always six months behind, like that kind of thing. No, I'm not behind now. Oh, that would be hilarious if she was still saying that now, which I mean, who knows? Sometimes she might want to. Oh man. Um, no, but uh in school, I graduated, I started college at 17. Like a month into college, I was 17. So I was a young, young for my grade, right? Most people were born in 91. I was born in 92, end of 92. So my mom was always like, you know, we we should have just started you a little later. You were always six months-ish behind. And then once January hit, you would start getting it. Like you would start figuring it out, like whatever. But I know how bad I struggled with comprehension when I was a kid. And if someone, I don't really remember testing when we were in school, besides taking the meat, like the big state test, which was on paper. We didn't take it in Chromebooks like the kids do now. Everything's done on a Chromebook now. I don't remember taking like mid-term, mid-assessments, like fall, winter, spring. Like I don't remember that. So now we do that. And a lot of my kids want to know what score they got previously. And I can tell the kids that want to know and the kids that don't want to know. I will never force them to know their score. Um, but they want, even though they don't get to know it until they come up to me to ask me, what did I get this time? Like they know in their head, I gotta try and do something, you know, whatever. And I love that. Like the ones that want to, but the kids that don't, I would never be that kid. And I'm not gonna come look at it after because I'm not gonna be set up for disappointment. Now, there are some that like go up a point where they stay the same, like whatever that looks like, and they come up to me and I'm like trying to process like, all right, I have to make sure that I give the same reaction to all students, no matter what score you got. But also recognize I have a student in my room that's in the 99th percentile for ELA and scored so high that I mean he he performs over the 99% of people in the nation on this test that deserves accolades incredibly. Like we focus so much, I'm going on different tangents again. We're gonna have to wrap back around. We focus so much on the kids that struggle and gifted programs get get thrown on the wayside. Now, I'm not so much a gifted teacher, I don't excel at that. I excel at the students that struggle. So when I see the student in the 99th percentile in ELA and in the 96 percentile in math, I'm like, whoa, what do I do? And as you know, I had reached out to someone from like our intermediate school district to be like, give me more information on how I can help this student grow. But back to the testing. So I'm want to tell him, and I want to be like, dude, you did amazing. This is insane. This is good work. But then I have the kid that's over here that's flagged, double flagged, that went up one point. You know that I'm gonna be like, yes, you you you did that thing, man. Like, because that's just what it is. Like, just because you performed the ninth percentile, I'm gonna give that to you. But also, that kid that went up one point is gonna get my same praise. Right. Now, the kids that go down, I'm like, hey, we we went down a little bit. I'm not upset by it. We're gonna try and do something different the next time. Like, keep up the good work. It's not as exciting, but it's and I I think about it all the time. Something that I perseverate on is how I'm responding to these kids when they're getting these test scores back. Because I'm telling you, you're more than a test. I don't care what you get, but then I like give accolades to the kids that get one point higher or in the 99th percentile, and the kids that are just stay flat or go down a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

I'm like, yeah. Yeah, good job. And yeah, and it's just more of that balancing act, but it's like you're so we say it's not the the words that you use or it's the tone that you have, you know, when it comes to arguments and stuff, but it's kind of the same thing here of like you're saying different words, but you are doing it with the same energy, the same frequency for everyone. And you're aware of that. Yes. So this is what I mean by like we need the teachers to be like doing that, but that's also so much on you.

SPEAKER_00

Exhausting. Yes, I will continue to do it for the rest of my life, but I can't, I can also be aware enough to say that there are teachers that again. I I don't have a family that I need to come home to to have a mental load to like I get to come home and just be right. So I I can't even imagine stress at home. Now we all know I have stress at home, but like we can imagine the family stress and then having to come to school and balance that too. So it's like what is expected? Expectation is always, and it's another thing that we always talk about. What's the expectation from a parent, from an administrator, from other teachers? What is the expectation? What do you want me to do? What should I be doing? And that's where it's so like such this gray area because I think that there can be really amazing teachers out there that just don't tell them their test scores. Just like, do you do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, I don't know how to really say it, but like I like to think that in my words I go above and beyond. Those are the things that I go above and beyond about. I using my words, showing my care, always reiterating I love them, even if it's a no. Like my my favorite thing in class says, I love you but no. And uh and like they wrote it on like sheets of paper once. Like, what does Mr. Flachie say all the time? I love you but no. Um incredible, yeah. And um, but if that wasn't me, what does a good teacher look like? Like what do they do they have to be that way? Like it's a lot to constantly reassure other people, right?

SPEAKER_03

All the time. And I'm thinking, like, talking specifically about the test scores, but just in general, especially when we, you know, talk about the one student, not only are you doing it to like be fair to each student, but you're also contending with what each student gets at home as far as praise or lack of or discipline and yeah, and you can tell the kids that are seeking it.

SPEAKER_00

Is that good? Ms. Hashi, is that good? Yeah, dude, whatever you did is good. You tried. Did you try your best? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did. Okay, well then I don't care. Great. Move on. It's just like we're gonna move on from it. And then there's the ones that you know, it's uh you're like never sure if it's like attention seeking in the sense of they just want to be attention seeking in the room, like whatever, or they're not getting it at home, or they just really want to do good, or they're perfectionists, or they're anxious, or they're like there's so many things to like contend with. And I always the kids that don't want to know their score, if I look at it and they didn't go up, I won't push it because then I'm not gonna make them whatever. But if they did go up, I'm like, come here, come here because I want them to see they don't know that they don't know that I'm not they don't, you know, if I'm calling them up or not. But like in my head, it's like if you went up, I'm gonna let you know. So that way you know that you whatever it's hard, man.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, just for the record, this entire conversation. My third eye has been like this like icy, cool um vibe.

SPEAKER_00

You mean that tree coming out of your forehead?

SPEAKER_03

The Nile River. No, but yeah, I am getting this like cooling sensation right here, and that's just like a really good thing. So that just means good things are gonna come from this. Yeah, man. But see, no, and I love that, and it's like the specifics can show up in a different way, right? But what you're doing, your ultimate goal is to help these kids love themselves. Yes. And that's like why this movie is just so like great for this because it's Is it is in like a private school, which I you know talk about specifically in the part one. So it is the point of it is that it's rigid, that it's like structure, structure, structure, and like seeing the effects of that. But obviously, that shows up even in its own way in public schools, and just in general, with yes, all of this testing and obsession with the grades and the and you mentioned um in your special ed classroom the sticker chart, that's something in this movie where Jack Dewey walks over and he's like, What is this? And it's a sticker chart where whoever does good gets gold stars, and then whoever, you know, isn't doing good or makes a mistake or whatever gets a black dot. Oh jeez, and he's like, What are these? And Miranda Cosgrove Summer, she's like the you know, the star student. She's like, Those are demerits. He literally rips the thing off of the wall, right? And is like, what? And he's like, Right, it's like not happening. Like, it's just and I and again in part one, I say it's it's stuff like that. And I remember when I was in young fives, they had the the chart with the clothespins of where you were at, those still are a thing, yeah. And it's specifically in high school, like if a student's misbehaving or doing something like calling them out in front of the class, yeah. And it's just to me, it's shame and embarrassment as teaching tactics.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I I will say, sorry, I dropped my phone. Uh it's incredibly that is one thing that like me as a teacher that I have struggled with, if I'm being fully honest, is like when I'm teaching and something's happening, to be able to ignore the behavior in a sense, like whenever something's happening, and then pull the kid out later to have the conversation. A lot of the times it's a call out right away. And it's hard. Again, I will be the first to say it's not always right. Um, but they're also to kind of on the other side, depending on grade and things like that. Sometimes after speaking with like our social worker and stuff like that, it is a slightly like a tactic to do that to try and make them and not to be mean about it, but to be like, do you see what you're doing right now?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Can you be self-aware enough to see how this is affecting the whole? And I think that's where the difference lies, is the tone, right? We talk about this all the time in anything in theater, like what all the stuff that we've talked about. Like you can still do something and not the best way, but as long as you go about it with the right intentions, then it should never come off as dismissive or you know, whatever. I don't know. Yeah, it's hard, it's a really hard thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. How do you do it in a way that it's like you need to be aware of how you're affecting everyone else? But so like I see like the charts or whatever, and because I've even seen this in your class and I've seen you have to respond to it. If they're looking at a chart and they're seeing that someone is in like a yellow, all of the kids then know that about that kid, and they start to call it out, and then you're like, guys, I the one who has to handle this.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Well, and there's like a whole study on data and behavior being posted in classrooms. I don't know the study. Don't don't ask me about it. I don't know, unfortunately. I don't really know. I'm sorry. I got nothing. I've got nothing for you besides all I know is that there is research um that public display of behavior and data is detrimental to students. The way that we always thought to go about it is like we assign the class numbers, right? Like alphabetical order, you assign them numbers. So you're putting a number on the board, it's a little bit harder to decipher. My kids know the class numbers better than I know the class numbers. So it's like that's not really helpful. And I do like we are double-edged sword, right? I firmly believe posted behavior, public behavior data is not great. My opinion. I use class dojo. I typically my view changes sometimes. I still don't know where I fully stand, and I'm okay with that because I think it's ever changing. Um, I use class dojo. We use it for at my school, we use money, we hand it out to kids for positive behavior.

SPEAKER_03

Great, great money.

SPEAKER_00

Let's go. It is a dollar that we have, and as kids are doing things that are appropriate, they get handed money. This is called PBIS, positive behavior interventions. Okay. Oh my god. So this is what school-wide we use. It's called P B I S. There's a team for it. Okay. I'm don't like to hand out the money. I use Dojos. It's the same, same thing. I do do it because it is our system that we use. Um, but mine is based off of redirection. Okay. So I'm not like I don't give them a lot. Um some things that they get is for their jobs. So they have weekly jobs. If they did their jobs appropriately, they get five points at the end of the week. Goes to their dojo system. Every day, their Chromebooks charged to 80% or higher, they get a dojo. These are like responsibilities that they whatever. As far as when things are happening in the classroom, when I'm seeing a favorable behavior, something that is um a known expectation. It's hey, we transitioned, we're getting into this next subject. I have kids that are running around the room, they are not doing the thing that's favorable. The students that are doing the favorable thing earn dojos, and they can hear for me, they hear the ding and it redirects them to whatever. Now, there is a negative dojo function. Okay, I struggle with negative dojos, taking them away. I like to give the positive ones, but I give typically, if I'm not giving them based on redirection, I am giving them for above and beyond. It's not an expectation. It's hey, I saw this student stop what they were doing. There's paper that was left on the ground, they chose to pick it up, they're gonna get a dojo for it. It's just it's like you did something that was above and beyond your call of what your scope of what you need to do, your job is to be at school and to learn. I'm gonna give you a dojo for it. Now, if the class as a whole is really struggling, I have used my words as much as I can going negative dojo. I have a secret. I have myself on the dojo board, and I give myself a negative dojo so they hear the noise. And I don't know if that's I can't say it's appropriate. I I don't know, but in my head, it's like I'm trying, there's an expectation there. We're not meeting it. I'm not gonna yell at you, I'm not gonna whatever, but how are we gonna figure it out? There's a noise, it could be a doorbell. Unfortunately, on here, it's like a it's a don't, yeah, it's like a down, and then they like look around and then they're like, oh, and then they realize it's time to get on task. And then, or if I like don't do it myself, I just hit the undo button. Very rarely do I successfully give a negative dojo. There are other teachers say hand them out like candy, and kids are in the negative, and I struggle with that because I would would rather award favorable behavior than take away things for kids that are struggling. It's hard. It's a it's a what uh there's other systems. I again there's like a another school that uses another system called Love and Logic. Uh you know, there look them up, everybody. I don't I can't tell you everything about it. Um, I don't know, it's just hard to figure it out. What's a nice theme that I've been saying for the last hour? It's hard. Isn't it all?

SPEAKER_03

Um if I can interject my opinion.

SPEAKER_00

Please do.

SPEAKER_03

So, first of all, guys, you see why this woman is my friend. Um and why we yeah, these faces. Um, why we spend so much time together, why we are each other's um soulmates and accountability partners. Yep. But so this is what I do, right? You give you give the 3D nitty gritty, and then I I translate it into like the 5D whatever. So I think the way that you're doing it is perfect. Oh well, thanks. You're welcome. I too don't believe in punishment as a a teaching tactic. I think it's a it's shame. It you know, I just the the psychology, this could be talked about for hours in itself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So rewarding the positivity, I think, is great, and it also again just points back to your awareness, like how you saw a kid pick up a piece of trash and like the things that you are paying attention to, but the positivity associates with the idea of positive karma, right? Yes, so if you're putting the good thing out there, the good thing is gonna come back. If you're putting the negative thing out there, the negative is gonna come back. Nothing good is gonna come from that, right? And I love the fact this idea of like you taking it on yourself to be the one who I mean, obviously, you're not actually like suffering consequences, yeah, yeah, but you are taking it on yourself to let's say 5D terms take that hit energetically to bring awareness to the collective situation, it's all about so everyone can get on the same page, and it's also this thing where it relates so like in such a cool way, like in meditation. If you're doing a guided meditation, even if you're not listening to any noises, if it's just silence, but you are on a guided meditation on an app or something, they'll ding you back in. Yeah, it's like Pablov's dog, yeah, because your mind wanders, right? So your kids are wandering, yeah. So it's literally just this like noise that brings them back into it, and it's a thing of like, okay, Dojo, maybe we can understand that this tone is associated with a redirect, but let's not make it a tone, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That is like it literally takes a point away, right? That's like this whole thing too about like red not being associated with bad. Like that's a thing too. Like, stop associating red with bad. So, like, I don't I think red for a lot of like clip charts is off the chart now instead of like call home, you know, like that, like it's how you associate things. Red is bad, green is good, yellow is mid.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and it's all of this stuff that as a society we have just ingrained and 100% pushed and wow blah blah blah blah. Um wow. So this was even more incredible than I could have imagined, but I'm glad.

SPEAKER_00

Am I surprised?

SPEAKER_03

That's okay because this is not the last time we will be doing this. No, not at all. Um, I did just want to touch on uh shoot, I just remembered and I forgot again.

SPEAKER_00

Um was it the AIDS? My AIDS in my classroom. I was like, wait, what? Put that out. My paras was it about my paras in the classroom?

SPEAKER_03

No, no, no, no, no. It was about you um saying you will get the kids that you're meant to, and how for me that's just another, like, because you know the term spiritual like wigs people out to me. That is a spiritual concept, that is a spiritual understanding way of looking at the world of the the machinations of the universe, how things line up in a specific way to happen a specific way because that kid is meant to be exposed to your light, you are meant to be exposed to that kid to learn to learn from them. Oh my gosh, yeah, and we talk about that all the time. We'll you know, we'll hit a subject and then we'll come back weeks later and be like, so remember when this happened, it finally came to light why this happened, yeah, for sure. So for sure, 110. 110 Hundo P Hundo P 3000.

SPEAKER_00

What'd the kids say? Six, seven, or it's the but they do the fish now. Why? Yeah, no, they plug their nose and they do this. Why? I don't know, they just do it. They I did it when they were coming out of gym yesterday, and they were like, oh they really liked it. Yeah, you know, yeah. As I sit as we decompress from the last full day of school.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, two more half days, and it is summer break. Summer break. This is what I mean about productive conversations. And you can you can hit the highs, you can hit the lows, and you come out of it and you take a deep breath, and we say, Great, where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_00

We uh keep on keeping on doing our thing to the best we can.

SPEAKER_03

Continue to do our best, give our best. Each and every day. Woohoo! I'm not gonna try to do a cute wrap-up here. I just think um that we freaking nailed this, and I love you so much, and thank you for it.

SPEAKER_00

Fist bumped through the phone.