Episode 1 - Gina - Infant Loss/Job Loss

How do you exist after the worst thing happens to you? This week meet Gina a married mom of three from Maryland that lost her oldest fourteen years ago on her due date. Don't let the heaviness scare you, closing thoughts involve ice hockey.

This series discusses suicide and may be activating for some individuals. If you or anyone you know is struggling, please let them know that help is available. You can call or text 988 anytime in the US and Canada.

If you or someone you know is experiencing pregnancy or child loss, these organizations may be a valuable resource for you. Postpartum Support International - PSI MISS Foundation | Support for Bereaved/Grieving Parents & Families Return to Zero: H.O.P.E.

Transcript

Jess 0:00

Welcome to Sparking the Torch Podcast. My name is Jess and I'll be your guide weekly to highlight guest tales of lived experiences that offer illuminating ideas and insights. Three years ago, my brother slash best friend died while on active duty in the US Army. The worst possible outcome happened, and I thought I'd never get by. When my world was dark others poured their light into me. Now it's my turn to return the favor. Storytelling inspires hope. Join us each week fellow torch sparklers, and prepare for transformation.

Jess Timmerman 0:32

Hey everyone. Welcome to my brand new podcast, Sparking the Torch. My name is Jess, and in this first season, we're gonna tackle inspiration. I was lucky to be blessed with so many inspiring people in my life, Ooh, getting teary. That's weird. With that said, let's meet our very special guest today. I have Gina from Maryland. Thank you for taking time out to join us today.

Gina Dempsey 0:54

Absolutely. Thanks for inviting me. feel very honored and privileged to be here for the first season, so thank you.

Jess Timmerman 0:59

Thank you. Let's get to the stuff. When I came up with this idea, you were one of the first people I thought of. With that, can you, introduce yourself, tell us any parts of your story.

Gina Dempsey 1:11

Yeah, absolutely. No, thanks for having me. as you said, Gina, here in Maryland, I'm married with three kids. We have been married, oh my gosh, 14. No, that's not true. We've been married a long time. I'm not gonna do the math this early in the morning. Prior to being married, we were dating and in love and, Became pregnant and fell in love even more deeply with each other. And just this idea of bringing life into the world, and as what is often not talked about. Tragedy struck on my delivered stillborn. so. Life changed from that moment on, and I personally changed from that moment on. the way I parent is rooted in that loss a lot. I'll be honest, right? I thought when I received this request, I oh, this must be, what she wants to touch on. I'm happy to talk about it. There is so much more to me, that I could talk about and can share, but I know that's also even 14 years after the fact. it's hard to talk about and not a lot of people wanna talk about it. When I get the small chance to introduce myself as that person and to say, I'm Kennedy's mom, I don't wanna ever pass that up. That's me in a nutshell. That's actually very little about me. But I think an important part, and I think is gonna frame a lot of where this conversation goes and how to move forward when tragedy strikes, and I think how to talk to children about tragedy too.

Jess Timmerman 2:29

Thank you. We've been friends more than 20 years, you were my first really good friend that was pregnant. And you also were this magical unicorn because you never complained. Later on when all of us started having babies why was Gina so happy? Just rubbing her bump and swimming in pools I'm miserable. It's interesting. I like that. I kept it vague when I invited you, because we're very complex people and, you have many levels of adversity and challenge and cool things you've overcome. I thought we were going there, but I was gonna let you do what you wanted to do because that's what makes this normal. Like meeting at an airport bar.

Gina Dempsey 3:07

Absolutely. I have shared this story in airport bars before too.

Jess Timmerman 3:10

We become the age we are and we become the people we are and When you meet somebody at ice hockey, your kids play ice hockey. When you meet somebody there, they don't know that whole chapter of who shaped this person in front of me.

Gina Dempsey 3:24

Absolutely. I think a great example of that, Is. Last summer, my oldest, his hamster died. He had this hamster for two years. Not only did the hamster die, but the hamster died while he was at sleepaway camp. Aw. Yeah. And it was his first time ever going to sleepaway camp.

Jess Timmerman 3:38

Did you think about replacing the hamster?

Gina Dempsey 3:40

Not once.

Jess Timmerman 3:41

Okay. Keep going. Sorry.

Gina Dempsey 3:42

Not once. And I think this folds into multiple things. My story with Kennedy, shaped how I am as a parent and who I am as a parent. All three of my children know who their older sister is. They know what happened. We have pictures of her in our house from that day. We go to her grave site every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, every Easter, every one of her birthdays. We are there, whether it's for five minutes or it's 45 minutes, we are there. So they know very deeply that she is their older sister. So they understand death too. They understand that this is what happens. This is life. Animals don't live forever. People don't live forever. So I knew that I couldn't pass this off as a different hamster. We got home and I told him like right away, rip that bandaid off and did a whole thing like we had a funeral. He took a shoebox and decorated it and we buried it. Amazing Grace was sung. He is buried in the backyard. My parents stopped by'cause they happen to be driving past and so it was this whole thing. Collected flowers, all the things right. I let him process. His grief, because this was his pet. And hockey season started a few weeks later. I was telling one of the moms about that, and it was that same. Oh, I just would've gotten a new hamster. And I was like, I couldn't do that. And they're like, how you did the whole funeral? I said, yeah, why wouldn't I? When my dog dies, I'm gonna cry. The same way that he needs to cry. He needs to go through this process. The next day was a school day, or not school, it was summer. But he was supposed to go to his normal day camp. And I was you can stay home. When I put my cat down five years ago, I needed the day off and my boss gave it to me. And you're a little human just like I am. And you gotta go through this and feel all the emotions and be sad. It shapes who you are as a parent.

Jess Timmerman 5:20

You're right. That's brave our society's weird about death. It makes everyone uncomfortable, but it's the only thing that's certain. I think it's really beautiful, man. As a parent, it can be easier to brush off. These are little processing humans with their own, why would you deprive them of that experience? Kids typically, besides maybe ones that grow up on farms, don't see life and death very much. We just want to shield them.

Gina Dempsey 5:44

Yeah. I think we shield them too much. We try to shield them too much with that. I remember recently one of our kids had a friend whose, grandfather passed away. It was the first time that they were dealing with death. And also in that moment, learning what death is in the first place. That's too much. For us it before Seamus was one. My oldest, sorry. We were reading him stories about, before you were here, somebody else was here. Now you have a guardian angel. And it's just always. Just like the name of their grandparents, the name of all the people that have just been a constant in their life. Her story as part of our family has always been a constant in our life. And no matter which aunt and uncle's house our, my children go to, there is memorial picture, and it's not a picture of their older sister. What would've been her first birthday, we had a balloon release and every member of our family has a picture from that day in their house. So you look over and you're like, yep. This person is a part of our family. I think it teaches children even much more too. There's that level of compassion and empathy and knowing that things are gonna change, but who your family isn't changing. Right. You shared we've been friends for over 20 years. So my children were affected in a different way of the tragedy that you've experienced. They've continued to be friends with your nephew and they process it differently. There is pictures of your brother and my house and they ask who that is. They don't remember necessarily meeting him. But they have heard stories. When they go to your nephew's house, they see pictures of him everywhere. Now they do know who he is. They talk to him when he is here about that. It's really special and great that they both have somebody else in their life that is that age that it's not over their head. They get totally this is who we are, this is how human beings, have to face the world.

Jess Timmerman 7:24

Okay. I knew, talking to a friend that has so much history, didn't know where we were getting into. We went death. You brought up the point. Gina and I, duh. He was my brother, but also my brother was friends with Gina and her husband and Gina and I's friend Kelley was married to my brother. So yes, my nephew and sister-in-law.

Gina Dempsey 7:46

Sister-in-law. A hundred percent.

Jess Timmerman 7:47

That's very incredible because I don't think kids are thrown hard things. It's one thing to talk to your parents, like something comes up at school, they'll ask a serious question and then five seconds later will you take me to do something? They can only process so much of it. So to have a peer that understands family loss, right? There is a piece of love in our family puzzle that's still present. Not on this plane with us, he moved back from Germany and started a new life and people could assume that part of him isn't there. That is special about their friendship. That's very

Gina Dempsey 8:25

Super special. Every time we go over there, my youngest is a, oh my gosh, he's a distructor. And Kelly has this beautiful, amazing,

Jess Timmerman 8:33

Is Kelly now? Is Kellen is. Six.

Gina Dempsey 8:36

He'll be six in April. Yeah, he is almost six. Yeah. she has this like beautiful, ornate, German cuckoo clock, handmade. Dude, if he gets six feet from that thing, I'm like, I cannot afford to replace it. Get the frick away from that. And go chase the dog. Get outta here.

Jess Timmerman 8:50

Thank you for sharing your parenting thing. It probably does change completely how you,

Gina Dempsey 8:55

I think so. It really does.

Jess Timmerman 8:57

That went different.

Gina Dempsey 8:58

We did share in our pre-interview. You were oh, I bet you have a busy Monday. I know you wanted part of this podcast to be about finding inspiration in all sorts of things, right? I do not have a busy Monday, and the reason I do not have a busy Monday is I made the difficult decision in December when presented with an option, to stay or leave my company. I left my company, and it was very hard. I was at my dream job at the Dream Company. It was everything that I'd been trying to achieve. And I got there and in February, I had a new manager put in place. It became very clear very quickly that we did not mesh and that these gentlemen. knew each other for 30 plus years. And they were not doers, they were strategy thinkers. It was a very different, it was a next to industry, but not the same industry. They didn't have the same way of working. It was a constant, every day was told how great of a job I was doing. But then right before Thanksgiving was written up because they didn't understand a complex problem. They basically, they looked bad. Gave me an ultimatum of, stick around and be coached, but could be let go at any moment

Jess Timmerman 10:09

Get on board with us or get out.

Gina Dempsey 10:11

They could fire me at any moment and I wouldn't get the, severance package, or I could take the severance package and leave. You want me to believe that the two men that have been telling me for nine months, every single day, how great of a job I am doing, but then all of a sudden today, now they're giving me this ultimatum that I'm supposed to trust. It doesn't matter how hard I work.

Jess Timmerman 10:29

Right?

Gina Dempsey 10:29

No matter. So, I left that and part of the reason that was so difficult and such a leap of faith in myself, is I've am the breadwinner in our family. And, to take the source of income that is funding our entire livelihood away. What felt like, maybe I'm doing it'cause am I doing it'cause of pride? What is it? But really it was the timing of year, It's the guaranteed severance package. Taxes are around the corner. I know that there'll be a slight windfall there. It was hard and it still is hard and just going through the grind, so not that busy a day. I do have one interview later today I'm very excited about, but we'll see.

Jess Timmerman 11:04

But again, back to you being a fantastic mother, right? You were willing for a second to be this job is against my soul and who I am, but I can do it because my kid's gotta play ice hockey and I gotta pay a mortgage. Right? But, ugh. That's frustrating.

Gina Dempsey 11:20

It was very frustrating. It was very hard.

Jess Timmerman 11:22

Do you have the faith in yourself, because you've already made it to your goal, that you can do it again with a company that's more in aligned with your values?

Gina Dempsey 11:31

I think so. Yeah. Some days I'm yes, I made the right decisions. And other days I'm oh. So I just, you know. And, gone through and silently found something else. I do wanna clarify too, it wasn't the company. The people that I worked with on other teams were absolutely amazing. I've stayed in contact with them and they have sent me notices. Hey, this person I know is hiring, check this out. It was the team that I sat on that was not aligned. Earlier in the year, the company had this big blowout, all hands on deck the company lead. Said, you have to love what you do and you have to love who you do it with. And when he said that, I looked to the person next to me and was like, only the first part of that statement is true. And so maybe it's time for me to leave. And she was like, it is right. She had been on my team and saw the writing on the wall and left the month after that. She is thriving and loving everything about her new position in the company. And I stuck around, when this happened, I thought back to that statement and I love what I do. I don't love this very specific people that I have to report to. While I do love everybody else.

Jess Timmerman 12:29

And that not gonna change.

Gina Dempsey 12:31

Right, it's not gonna change. I can't stick this out. So yeah, it is difficult. What else is different too and go back to parenting, my oldest knows. My younger two do not. And my oldest knows,'cause he is observant and Hey, like computer's gone. Hey, what about this? But he's older and he shows me time and time again that he is turning into a responsible, young little boy and eventually will be a young man and will eventually be a man. So I took that time to be honest with him. Say yes. Mommy did leave her job. This is what's going on with us right now. You don't need to worry. Says nothing is not gonna affect you in any way. But, my new job is to find a job and that's what I take very seriously. and I'm doing that. So he's like, what do I do if, my brother and sister asked me, I said, they're not going to,

Jess Timmerman 13:16

They're obsessed with their own lives enough that they're not even noticing that mom is dressing differently in the mornings.

Gina Dempsey 13:22

Nobody's gonna ask. Don't worry about it.

Jess Timmerman 13:23

I'm sorry about that. That sucks.

Gina Dempsey 13:25

Yeah, it did. But the silver lining, like I was working ridiculous hours. yeah. Absolutely ridiculous hours.

Jess Timmerman 13:32

Weekends, nights, weren't you at the ice hockey rink with your kids, with your computer, and then dealing with people that live in different places, having to get up for calls on the other side of the world?

Gina Dempsey 13:44

Yep. the number of practices that I missed because I was, either sitting outside in the truck or in the lobby taking a meeting working instead of watching them where, because of the timing that this happened. I was able to be completely present for the Christmas holidays.

Jess Timmerman 13:59

Which is amazing because it's so hard. It's so hard to be present in the moment. There are always things that.

Gina Dempsey 14:08

That was a gift. I'm just gonna focus on this. And then, when the new year starts, then I'll start to look around and, So I was able to be present in that we had like a crazy, winter where, we didn't have school for over a week and I got to be present and go sledding every day instead of Hold on. Let's go. Sledding between 2:00 and 4:30. That's

Jess Timmerman 14:26

We similarly Maryland to Oklahoma, got that storm that shut everything down. Our kids had spring break in January. I think Mother Nature is pissed at us and that is why these storms are happening. I also thought that my kids got to be KIDS for a week.'cause there's no practice, there's no speech, there's no tutoring. It's I'm gonna go sledding with my friends and see ya at dinner.

Gina Dempsey 14:48

Let's go do this. You want some hot chocolate? Hot chocolate candy canes in it all around. Let's do it. So that's funny. We still had practices.

Jess Timmerman 14:55

Oh my God. We would, if there was a tornado, not snow. These guys don't wanna drive in it. The world stopped. Can I ask you a couple more things about Kennedy

Gina Dempsey 15:02

Please?

Jess Timmerman 15:03

Okay. It's really incredible that babies are ever born. There are so many millions of things that have to go right all the time.

Gina Dempsey 15:10

Okay?

Jess Timmerman 15:10

How did you mentally survive? Three pregnancies after that because like you said, it was your due date, October 22nd. Us as friends are texting you is she here? Is she here? And not knowing that the worst thing in the world just happened to you, how did you do that?

Gina Dempsey 15:26

We took time, we didn't get pregnant right away afterwards. I needed that time. I think that was important. I took care of myself first, and even in that first year, I don't know if you remember this, in that first year of loss, I asked everybody to continue to check up on me. Especially as we got closer to that one year anniversary because there is a history of mental illness. That's not the right word. Let me back up. There is a history of postpartum depression in. my family and I did lose my maternal grandmother. My mother lost her mother at the age of five to suicide. And I took that very seriously, and that's always been a part of my life, knowing that. I wanted to make sure like that I'm going to get through things by making sure that my friends know, I want you to check up on me, please keep in contact with me. I think spending that first year, taking care of myself. Me and my now husband weren't married at the time. So then it was, let's do this, the old fashioned way and let's get married. I think doing, like resetting, doing those kind of things and then making the decision together of yes, we wanna do this. And talking to my doctor beforehand and be. What's the plan? How do we make sure this doesn't happen beforehand? I got set up with a specialist and to give myself multiple shots every day. And it was, okay, you're gonna, be induced three weeks early. Knowing that there was professionals that cared about me, say, we're not gonna let this happen again. And being monitored constantly and letting them worry about the medical things. I am very lucky that I'm a very happy pregnant person. I might have my days or but overall, my body really enjoys pregnancy, which I'm very lucky about, and I realize that. And so knowing that was the only time that I got with her. Yes, there was times where I was scared and I was nervous, and I would be anxious and I would talk through it with my husband, but at the same time it's this is it. We're gonna go do this and I'm gonna take as many pictures as I can, of my pregnant belly because what if this is the only thing that I have? What if this happens again? And yes, I I would think about that, but. it couldn't be the only thing, I had to just continue and to just really enjoy what was happening and this is my time. In that first year, probably in that first month after losing Kennedy, my brother-in-law said to me, we should all be so lucky to, we should all be so lucky to only ever know. Warmth and love in our mother's love,

Jess Timmerman 17:45

Pure love to know,

Gina Dempsey 17:45

Pure love to know and to no pain. And I think, having that in my head too I gotta make sure this baby feels this and gotta go through. And so the first one, difficult, the after her for the second and the third a little, that's still there. But now I've gone through this already and we've had a successful outcome. And I'm chasing around a toddler while I'm doing this, and then I'm chasing around two toddlers while doing it, made it a little less, and I don't know, I put a lot of power behind his statement. I think the even more beautiful thing about that was unfortunately years later, I had to say the same thing to, to him and to my sister, when they had loss. And actually the anniversary is coming up in two days of that. They were profoundly touched by that statement, and he was like, I don't remember saying that to you. Well, you most certainly did, sir. And it was life changing for me. And so, it just felt so great to be able to give that, sentiment back to them and have it touch them in a different way.

Jess Timmerman 18:36

It's really beautiful that he had no memory of that. And you could give the same gift. You were like, that sanded me on so many nights when I'm in distress. And you have no idea what you said, like you're ordering a cheeseburger.

Gina Dempsey 18:49

Yeah, no, absolutely no idea. And he was just like, wow. I don't know where it came from, but that's what you said to me and it helped me so much.

Jess Timmerman 18:56

Brought up three things there. If I don't say it, I will forget one. You do talk about loss doesn't happen, like grief doesn't happen like in a cylinder on its own. Your sister and her husband have two kids and she gets pregnant for a third time and similar outcome. Correct. I'm not trying to give away your health things here. It came out later that you do have some sort of genetic, did your sister have the same thing?

Gina Dempsey 19:23

Oh my gosh. So this is a whole different conversation and I wish I had resources to pass out too.

Jess Timmerman 19:28

I can look'em up.

Gina Dempsey 19:29

So, The insurance companies would not pay to test her for the same disorders that it was proven that I had. And the reason they didn't is because her loss happened in the second trimester where my loss happened in the third trimester on my due date and was considered stillborn, So that met the mark of having all these genetic tests done to me, whereas. For her, she wasn't far enough along in her pregnancy. According to the insurance companies, it has to happen. I don't remember if now if the doctor said it was four or five times in order for the insurance companies to pay to find out the test. not

Jess Timmerman 20:05

human.

Gina Dempsey 20:05

You're my blood sister. we have the same parents and she said it was even when she found out that she was pregnant for that third time. She told the doctors, this is what happened to my, this is my family history. This is my niece's history, my sister's history. Can I take the test or can I get on the same medicine? And they're like, do you have this much money?

Jess Timmerman 20:24

That's awful and heartbreaking We don't know the plan or what could or would've should have, but you have the same parents.

Gina Dempsey 20:31

Right. There's a good chance.

Jess Timmerman 20:33

Okay. You bring up a couple the other things that I made a note because they are important. Your, family history with suicide? I don't know if people that hasn't happened in their family know how scary it is for us that have survived that. Because if you lose someone to suicide and it even goes for your kids that never met your grandma. But because that story has enveloped. All of us are six times more likely to pass that same way. And that's like terrifying. I think that was very smart in your own grief to say, Hey, medical professionals help me take care of myself because I need to get myself right and you watch my signs.

Gina Dempsey 21:14

Yeah, absolutely. I know I've shared this with you before too. in those first few months too, it pops in and then, the reason I knew that I'd be okay, right. Is'cause the second thought as soon as that popped in was, I can't let my mom go through the same thing I'm going through right now. And I just got a deal. But it also turned into I can't talk to you because you get to comfort your daughter, and I don't get to comfort my daughter.

Jess Timmerman 21:33

I

Gina Dempsey 21:33

Don't wanna talk to you right now. That was hard for her to understand. I was like, sometimes you're not the right person. But yeah. it's that pain that comes through and that generational trauma of it that it happened. We have talked about this and I've talked about this with other people. Children that deal with a parent going through this is, it's always there. It's always there. My mom is, and it

Jess Timmerman 21:52

Will always be and it'll always be there.

Gina Dempsey 21:55

Yeah. My mom was five when this happened and. she is 71, 72. Now, I'm not gonna do the math real quick,

Jess Timmerman 22:05

I'm not gonna send this link to Gina Senior and tell her that you're giving out her age on the internet.

Gina Dempsey 22:10

She's a grandmother to a 14-year-old. will say that with her age. It is still something that she deals with and it's still something that my aunts and uncles deal with. Whether they talk about it or not.

Jess Timmerman 22:19

Which is another thing, everybody has to do their own healing. You partly agreed to this today'cause you don't get a talk about Kennedy, but that doesn't mean you don't love her. It's just that it makes the rest of the world hard. Which is silly.

Gina Dempsey 22:33

silly. So silly. Yeah, it's now I don't know if it's a story that I will ever share with my children. That their grandmother went through this. It was hidden for me till I was, I Eleven or twelve now. when I found out the truth. Because my grandfather remarried and he had two more kids.

Jess Timmerman 22:49

Wow.

Gina Dempsey 22:49

And once I did find out that the truth of my family history, it made me look at my grandmother so differently. The one that I grew up with.

Jess Timmerman 22:57

Yeah.

Gina Dempsey 22:57

So differently because

Jess Timmerman 22:59

What words would you say? How different, more g race, like with admiration? I don't wanna put words in your mouth.

Gina Dempsey 23:06

No. I think this is the perfect place to talk about it. Looking back, now I can say she inspired me. She taught me what family and what love was.'cause I was 12 years old. I had no idea that the woman that I thought had birthed six kids and was the grandmother to 15 grandchildren was actually only the birth mom to two of them. And those two children didn't have kids yet. But That's not the life that I knew. This was my grandmother, right? She was obsessed with me and my sister and all of my cousins. And she didn't treat anybody differently there. Even though, my mother, I think was in high school when they married. We were family. It was family, it was love. I think that's part of why, like my parents never told me like the truth. And I had seen pictures of my grandmother in this house before, my maternal grandmother and she was with my grandfather and his siblings and people that I did know. And so it was just you see old timey photos and there's gonna be people in there that you don't know, okay, whatever.

Jess Timmerman 24:03

Yep.

Gina Dempsey 24:03

But then when I found like her, a headshot of her, my mom was like crying over this picture. Who? What is going on? Who is this? And finally the next day, sat down with me and my sister this is the true story of our family. Oh my gosh. And that's when I was like my grandmother, my butterfly is the most amazing woman I've ever met because it would be so easy for her to be those are your four kids and they're pretty much grown and these are my two kids, and this is just how life is. But that's not how,

Jess Timmerman 24:28

you've been around those people that over explain this is my step kid, or this is my husband's niece, and you're like, I'm not your niece too!

Gina Dempsey 24:36

Exactly. It was just, this is my daughter and this is my son and these are my grandkids. And yeah, she's absolutely amazing. Not that I have a gajillion tattoos, but the only person that I have, a tribute tattoo for, which I think says a lot about who she was and what she meant to all of us.

Jess Timmerman 24:53

Gosh, I have grace for your mom in that story. We all have things around our house that maybe people don't even think about it, but a picture and at some point a kid's gonna ask me about this. That's what. I really do have so much admiration for the hard talks you have with kids. Yeah. The other thing I think is really important that you touched on two things. It's, of course it's your sister, but reminding the anniversary is coming up. Even in other losses. I don't know if it's on purpose. We're really good, right? The first year we're really good about sending cards and stuff, and those Xs on calendars are still important to our loved ones. I don't know, why, as humans, I guess we're just too busy, but I don't know why we don't send the text thinking of you today or the phone call. I think that's really beautiful that you keep those dates in your life.

Gina Dempsey 25:41

Yeah.

Jess Timmerman 25:42

And I also was gonna say about, Kennedy and, your sister,

Gina Dempsey 25:45

her boy? Teddy.

Jess Timmerman 25:46

Okay. So Kennedy and Teddy. when I see pictures of you guys as celebrations, maybe this is me and believing in all the happy and pain-free on the other side. To me there's always light blurbs, like them saying hello. Your family is a huge theme of your story.

Gina Dempsey 26:02

Oh, definitely. That's funny. The first time you shared that with me, I told my mom and she got really emotional. She misses you. She says, hi, by the way. Tell

Jess Timmerman 26:11

her hello. That generation is so funny because, not funny. It's probably why we all need therapy and all the self-help we do.'cause they didn't do anything. They just Got on and kept going. They're tricky,'cause you're right, being the child that lost their parent by suicide. That is, a theme. Whether it's acknowledged or not. And that, takes some very careful maneuvering at all stages.

Gina Dempsey 26:33

In all stages. Yeah. I think it, it shapes you more than you want it to shape you. But, I told her what you said about the picture and she went from hating that picture. To now it's framed in their house, you made her see it in a different way and now it's in their house framed. So thank you.

Jess Timmerman 26:49

So if somebody is hearing your story, how would you encourage them?

Gina Dempsey 26:54

I would say to somebody who has experienced infant loss, it's. As in all forms of grief, it's never going to go away. it hits you in different ways for the rest of your life, And again, I think that's true with all loss. I think what makes infant loss. And even young, the loss of a young child more difficult is the lack of memories. The lack of shared experiences. You spent a lot of time mourning what could have been and the hopes and dreams that you had, and that is okay. And. People get uncomfortable around that and just find a place where you are comfortable to talk. If that means that you're, this happened more than once to me. If you are walking into a Target store and somebody in the next row over yells their kid's name, and that would've been your daughter's name. Your son's name, it's okay to cry and to leave. You don't have to power through. There are days where you will power through and there are days that you don't have to, and that is okay. I think that's what I, find little ways to, to celebrate. Like I said, we go every holiday we take flowers. Find ways because you don't have those memories. You have to make new memories. And I think that's what I do with the holidays. That's what I did with the balloon release and I took pictures. And in my house every year there is a frame that gets changed out with, you know, what we take to her on her birthday every year. It typically says how old she is. So right now there's a fourteen in our house, and that just, it's just there. Find ways to invite them into your family and hold space for everyone to know that it's okay.

Jess Timmerman 28:37

You're right. It's the memories. Wow. I didn't know we were getting into suicide today, but, and also you're my first podcast. You gotta do it with one of your best friends. It makes me feel a little, disingenuine in my life. You know this, but most people don't. I would've had a fourth child, I found out I was pregnant, I came back from a friend's 40th birthday in Fort Lauderdale and the hangover was lasting too long. I had an IUD in, and when I found out I was pregnant, I was like, what? And then as that pregnancy continued, I wasn't. Fit. Nobody was noticing I was getting bigger in my sweatpants, doing mom things. it just kept going and I wasn't sure how I felt about it. And I, the opportunity in my mind, man, you're getting pretty far along. You should start telling people or telling your kids. I found out I lost my fourth Oscar when I was 21 weeks. I can think being in that, ultrasound with, and everything was going well. You obviously see what's normally a swimming baby like just laying there and then the tech turns off the screen and then it all hits you, what's going on. And you're in a waiting room with all these expectant people and I'm like trying to pull myself together'cause I like don't wanna horrify them. And But my kids in my office, I have two urns. I have, when Zach passed, we split up Zach. So his wife, buried, he's in a military cemetery, and then Kelly and David, spread his ashes when they travel. And then mine, I don't wanna leave it anywhere. And then I have the urn of,'cause Oscar was 21 weeks. I had to labor and he had to be cremated. But those are in my office and I'm sucking as a parent'cause my 12-year-old doesn't know, she would have a 4-year-old brother right now. So I just really honor your journey. I'm thinking back to you being 12 or 13, and especially teenage girl hormones, there might have been a part of you mad at your mom. You never told me this.

Gina Dempsey 30:24

Right. Absolutely. why would you lie to me? My whole life is a lie. No, it's not.

Jess Timmerman 30:28

Say you need a kidney and your grandma butterflies trying to give it to you, and you're actually not related. that's too late. You ruined it. You've always been so honest with everything and it's a really. Great gift you have, so keep it going.

Gina Dempsey 30:41

I appreciate that. Thank you. I think too, you were on a different journey than me too at that time. I remember when that happened. And I was heartbroken for you and heartbroken for your husband and just everything that was happening. But at the same time, you weren't at a place yet where you were sharing with people. To share with the kids in the same day. This was gonna happen, but now this happened. It's wouldn't be the right thing to do? I don't know. But you're not hiding it. So when somebody's ready to ask, you're ready to share, I think. Okay. So I don't,

Jess Timmerman 31:09

making me feel less of a phony.

Gina Dempsey 31:12

No, that's, I don't think that's a phony. if you hid it away. That'd be different. But it is out and you're honoring him in your way. and when they're ready to ask questions, they will. I wouldn't say that at all. Do

Jess Timmerman 31:23

you have a good feeling about your interview today?

Gina Dempsey 31:25

Yeah.

Jess Timmerman 31:25

At what month? If you haven't found something, are you gonna freak out?

Gina Dempsey 31:29

Oh my gosh, I don't know. Yesterday. No, I'm joking. It's an ebb and flow it, I've been in this position before. But the other times I was laid off. Like the business, made multiple cuts. And so that's a different feeling. The feeling now of I personally made this choice, it better have been the right fucking choice.

Jess Timmerman 31:47

Can you imagine the anxiety you would've had every day if you hadn't taken the severance package? Every day you're is this the day I'm gonna be fired?

Gina Dempsey 31:53

And nothing to land on. Exactly.

Jess Timmerman 31:54

We're too old to bartend. Can't go back there.

Gina Dempsey 31:57

Percent, hundred percent.

Jess Timmerman 31:58

I.

Gina Dempsey 31:59

I can barely make my night games. I have a game tonight actually.

Jess Timmerman 32:02

Fun.

Gina Dempsey 32:02

On the fence. If I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. You

Jess Timmerman 32:04

have to go. You need the positive endorphin, right?

Gina Dempsey 32:08

Yeah, I have to go. It's so funny. We talked a little bit, I mentioned a few times, two of my kids played hockey and a few years ago my husband started playing and I've always wanted to play. And he is well then you should. I was I don't have any stuff. And he's well, neither did I. Well, let's go. And we went to the store and got some stuff. I only ever skated in a circle. And he's now you just skate across with a stick in your hand. So I started playing and it is so much fun. Here's another piece of advice, especially for moms who feel like this is all I do is mom things, right? Just go fucking do it. Just go do it. just go. I'll

Jess Timmerman 32:41

Be fine.

Gina Dempsey 32:42

Everybody will be fine. And it has turned into like my kids love that I play.

Jess Timmerman 32:47

You gotta say the championships, trophy. Because you and your husband are not on the same teams,

Gina Dempsey 32:52

we're not on the same team on purpose. It's funny, people are always What? Are you sure you don't wanna play together? I see him all the time, number one. Number two, if you played on the same team, I'd have to pay a babysitter every week to come. This is ridiculous. Now we only get a babysitter when our teams play each other. The two things that I love to point out to him,'cause these are facts and these will never change. The first game I played we played in the same league. My very first game, I scored and it took him over a year to land his first goal. Number one, absolutely amazing. Number two is, I assisted in the game winning goal that knocked his team out of the playoffs. Absolutely. It may say the following year, not that same year. Since then, unfortunately, his team has won two championships. But, doesn't change the facts.

Jess Timmerman 33:35

Doesn't change.

Gina Dempsey 33:36

Doesn't change Those facts, baby. All day

Jess Timmerman 33:39

Recorded in history.

Gina Dempsey 33:40

It's so much fun too. We actually play each other next week. It's awesome. Because I told my team last week, I all right, guys, we're playing my husband.

Jess Timmerman 33:47

And they're like,

Gina Dempsey 33:47

Just point him out. Every team I've ever been on, they're like, point him out. All we're gonna do is go for him. And then it's literally all the guys on my team do. Chase him down and elbow.

Jess Timmerman 33:57

what the age show up? Why is everybody playing so aggressive against me?

Gina Dempsey 34:01

Just against it? And, he's come to expect it. It makes it so much fun. It's awesome. So I highly suggest every mom get out there and whether it's playing a sport, if you used to be, an athlete, go find a sport, go play again. If it's art, go do art. If it's something, go do something for yourself, because while it feels like you're taking time away from your kids, what you're actually teaching them. Is to take care of yourself.

Jess Timmerman 34:24

Yeah.

Gina Dempsey 34:24

To do the things right?

Jess Timmerman 34:26

Life is for the living.

Gina Dempsey 34:27

Absolutely. I'm here to serve my kids and to help them and to help them grow and to teach'em things and protect them. And I'm here for other things too. And I think it's important that they see that.

Jess Timmerman 34:37

Very wise advice.

Gina Dempsey 34:39

Important for them to see that. Especially girls.

Jess Timmerman 34:41

Oh my gosh,

Gina Dempsey 34:41

A hundred percent girls.

Jess Timmerman 34:42

We gotta keep this, down with the patriarchy. Momentum go, these girls can't go backwards.

Gina Dempsey 34:47

A hundred percent, all of our sons see their fathers go play golf. We all know that's gonna happen, but what do they see their moms go do? Go do whatever the f it is that you wanna do to. Get those endorphins to get the frustration out. Go have fun

Jess Timmerman 35:00

Wise words. Okay. Thank you again for doing this. No

Gina Dempsey 35:03

problem. I hope you have a great day.

Jess 35:04

It means the world to me that you clicked Sparking the Torch Pod. If you like what you heard, please leave me a five star review. If you've got a story you'd like to have highlighted, shoot me an email. Thanks again.