Episode 2 - Aaron - Spouse Loss/Military Transition

Military/veteran suicide is thought to affect 22 people a day in the US. I'd argue it's at least double. Research shows the most effective healing is when survivor's get the opportunity to connect to other survivors but how do we do that in a culture that doesn't talk about the uncomfortable things? Aaron discusses loses his wife JJ while on active duty and finding love and his tribe again. To learn more about the Travis Manion Foundation and opportunities near you, click here... Volunteer

This series discusses suicide and may be activating for some individuals. If you or anyone you know is struggling, please let them know that help is available. You can call or text 988 anytime in the US and Canada.

Our only way out is through, if you need support on your suicide grief journey the following are invaluable:  Find a support group | AFSP Alliance of Hope For Suicide Loss Survivors | Home Grief Resources for Suicide Loss Survivors | Dougy Center

If you or a loved one is having trouble navigating the after-military journey these may be of help to you. Empowering Veterans | The Commit Foundation | The COMMIT Foundation Veterans Bridge Home | Charlotte, NC Operation Second Chance Operation Honor: Rural Salute™ | Serving Veterans Where Others Don’t Home

Transcript

Jess 0:00

Welcome to Sparking the Torch Podcast. My name is Jess and I'll be your guide weekly to highlight guest tales of lived experiences that offer illuminating ideas and insights. Three years ago, my brother slash best friend died while on active duty in the US Army. The worst possible outcome happened, and I thought I'd never get by. When my world was dark others poured their light into me. Now it's my turn to return the favor. Storytelling inspires hope. Join us each week fellow torch sparklers, and prepare for transformation.

Jess Timmerman 0:32

Good afternoon everybody, and welcome to Sparking the Torch. This first season we're interviewing the most uplifting people Today I have the great privilege to have Aaron Hudgins join me. Welcome to the show, Aaron.

Aaron Hudgins 0:43

thank you I'm excited to be here. I really am.

Jess Timmerman 0:46

it's funny we're doing this on Zoom'cause we are neighbors, share the same Walmart seen you twice there, Okay. someone once described loss or overcoming adversity to me as a blizzard. if you're lost in one, the only way out is if you see footprints or tokens, people left on a trail. to me that really resonates. you think of a snowstorm and you think of shoe prints, and if you use that analogy then, our only way out is to lean on people that have been through similar things before. personally, you're one of those like boot print layers, if you will,

Aaron Hudgins 1:18

Okay.

Jess Timmerman 1:19

Okay. I know it's a little deep for, the afternoon.

Aaron Hudgins 1:22

it is.

Jess Timmerman 1:23

Ride it with me.

Aaron Hudgins 1:24

I got it. I, I I can see that. Okay. that's a very interesting analogy I've never heard, so I'm gonna put that one in my tool shed.

Jess Timmerman 1:31

with that, will you tell my listeners about yourself and parts of your story or anything you're willing to share?

Aaron Hudgins 1:37

Yeah. the reason we're connected, we unfortunately share similarities on the fact that both of us, significant other in our life had, ended their life abruptly. And so we came together and in such a unique way, that I wish we wouldn't have. But that's the way, things landed. I'm not originally from Oklahoma. I'm originally from Arizona. Came here, fell in love with the state and decided, this is just where my home's gonna be. Join the army. Like a lot of kids who didn't know where to go or what to do. spent 26 years in the Army, Oklahoma National Guard. I really liked it. It resonated with me. I loved the people and the camaraderie. just about two years ago, I retired. I closed that chapter in my life. from there I was, lucky to find a new tribe. Is a lot of times for veterans, extremely difficult to find and a lot of us will spend many years looking for a new tribe that we can relate to. TMF just happened to come out of nowhere I went down on an expedition, experienced Arizona, which is funny. They sent me back where I came from, and I got to see home again for a minute. I met some amazing gold star, survivors really showed me that path that you just talked about, that they had already laid the footprints. A lot of them were in different stages. so when I was recovering from the death of my wife, I got to see this, journey that I'm going to be taking. it was new for me. I was only within the first, two years. And it allowed me to see because people are in different stages. Of their grief journey. And so it really helped me to go, you know what, this is gonna get a little bit easier. That's going to be a little bit easier to deal with and handle and understand. And I got to see that, it's okay to cry even though I was the only male there. that was a unique experience to be with nothing but gold star survivors. And I'm the only male. And, uh, I did find myself crying. it did get emotional. It really does. I learned a lot about myself, so when I came back, that's where things started to roll up. I fell in love with the TMF because they bring in veterans and survivors, and that's something I have not seen in any organization. A lot of'em talk about it, but this one, they emphasize, Hey, this is our bread and butter. This is who we like to, to lean on. And I appreciate that because. Being a veteran, sometimes we're looked at as recipients or beneficiaries, and we're not looked at as leaders like we used to be. And so that resonated with me because it gave me my status back. Hey, I could still lead, I could still help other people. And showed them that, I bring something to the table besides, some war stories So that's how we've gotten to where we at right now.

Jess Timmerman 4:08

Okay. Wow. Incredible. in that clip put so many things that we can elaborate on. I should start, and you'll have to tell me if you hate when you hear it. My brother did. you for your service. 26 years is incredible.

Aaron Hudgins 4:20

Thank you.

Jess Timmerman 4:21

Do you like to hear it, or no?

Aaron Hudgins 4:24

Not at all, but it's okay. Maybe there's a, disclaimer or maybe there should be like a hand and arm signal so You know, I've learned to, accept it and see it openly there for about five years. I avoided it at all cost. And I,'cause I just didn't feel like I did anything worth thanking me for. a lot of veterans feel that same way. we feel like we just did a job and we, closed that chapter and moved on. So that's a hard one to accept, but, I'm learning to, be more open-minded to it.

Jess Timmerman 4:51

And then you have, the honor of being part of two subcategories, right? A survivor of suicide loss, which is a tiny niche population, and then also military veteran. also a niche population that we have all these things attached to Yep. Or barriers in our society.

Aaron Hudgins 5:12

yeah. I'm the unicorn'cause I, I don't find a lot of male, survivors. the ones that I do meet up with are usually fathers or, siblings. I have not met a. spouse, yet. I know they're out there. But yeah, I have not met any up until this point. So it makes me unique. not in a good way, but I do bring a completely different perspective because I also served, so it wasn't just one sided. A lot of times that's what you find.

Jess Timmerman 5:37

you're not busy enough, this seems like the nonprofit you need to start there. Are others of you out there

Aaron Hudgins 5:43

maybe the hunt to look for more,

Jess Timmerman 5:44

I think you're effective with TMF because you know both sides of the coin, what it's like to be a veteran and family of the fallen. I think it's a lighthearted, but also a uniting story. another unexpected duality in your life came up when JJ was deployed. Could you elaborate for our listeners about that?

Aaron Hudgins 6:05

something that we take, for granted a lot of times is when, a family has a deployed parent or spouse, it's usually the male going and the wife stays back. for this time, I had the opportunity and the honor of being the stay at home parent while she went forward. that's not unusual. There's a lot of, dual status families and they do it just fine. What I was not prepared for was the fact that when she left it, We had just been married. We had just started a good battle rhythm. Certain days she left early to go get the kids, and other days she left early to go, cook dinner. But we had to figure out a way and a system to work because we had such a big family. when she left for deployment, I found myself for the first time alone. And not just with my kids, but with her kids. And so I have two new daughters, one's in junior high, one's in high school. Neither of'em can drive yet. both are girls. I've never raised girls ever, and so now I get two teenage girls, let me tell you, they took full advantage of the fact that I had never been with teenage girls, I didn't understand how and what items they would need on a, on a regular basis.

Jess Timmerman 7:12

You were substitute teacher and you were, their entertainment.

Aaron Hudgins 7:15

They were. And they took full advantage of it. They sent me multiple times down aisles that I have never been down, never seen, nor did I ever want to go down. And so it was a, it was a very humbling experience, having to walk down aisles with my phone trying not to say anything, but yet, is that what you're looking for? No, keep going. And I could just hear'em laughing at me the whole time. they absolutely loved it. but the, the hardest part was when I lost that other person, I found myself trying to, now I'm double doing, which many spouses do all the time. the uniqueness was the fact that I was the one staying behind. This time I'd already been deployed. two deployments, came home. So I have deployment experience plus stay at home parent experience. Two are completely different. they all have their challenges that were extremely unique in their own sense and both extremely difficult. I have to say, if I was to compare the two, even though that my life was at risk when I'm at, but you, you're life's at risk too, just driving down to get gas. in the sense that yeah, you are deployed and you're defending, with your brothers and sisters. When I was home by myself, every day was a logistical nightmare of how am I going to get this kid to this junior high, this kid to this high school, these two kids to this high school. Another one, you know, we have soccer practice. her daughters were on a traveling volleyball team.

Jess Timmerman 8:42

Oh man.

Aaron Hudgins 8:42

And I didn't know that that was even, like, I wasn't even prepared to go. Okay. I got a Colorado trip coming up and I'm oh, that's not good.'cause I got four other kids, you know?

Jess Timmerman 8:52

Right.

Aaron Hudgins 8:52

and the amount of disaster that comes with kids, not picking up after themselves. Plus I have a full-time job. I've still got the army. and the army they don't expect you to just be able to figure it out.

Jess Timmerman 9:05

Right.

Aaron Hudgins 9:05

And children are different than adults. they do not answer to, to direct questions. They don't, they, they get sensitive. Some of'em wake up in a bad mood.

Jess Timmerman 9:14

Totally.

Aaron Hudgins 9:15

And you don't talk to'em like a, adult. You can't even treat'em like an adult. each one has their own unique dynamic. every day was another educational experience you thought you were ready for this, or you thought you were a parent that could handle every day. I was faced with a new challenge, that I had never experienced before. I found myself in mounds of clothes that had to be washed seven days a week. then you have yard work, and then the house needs to be cleaned, and then all of a sudden I've got five different, pallets of, oh, I, I don't eat that. I eat this, you know, I'm making steak. But one wants chicken and the other one wants. Is this for real? when did we have such a refined palette that we can't Chicken nuggets or McDonald's? They're like, no, no. And they couldn't have the same thing every day. It had to be different. It had to be unique. And then both of'em went to church on Wednesdays. soccer practices were always, Mondays and Wednesdays. Volleyball happened to fall on Tuesdays and Thursdays plus tournaments every weekend. I had to get her family involved, a lot because there was just no way I was finding what I'll admit to is, during the week, because of the times that they had to be in school and then pick up, I had to sync them in with. Break times at work. Hey, I'm doing a coffee run. Do you guys want anything? And they're like, oh, yeah, but I'm not actually going on a coffee run. I am running a kid to school.

Jess Timmerman 10:38

Right, right.

Aaron Hudgins 10:38

And I'm running another kid from a school to a program and then back home to drop'em off. I was doing that for eight months. part of me was like, I don't see any other way to do this. And then, of course I would come back with whatever drink or whatever someone asked for, But if anyone was checking the time, they would've noticed I was gone for like 45 minutes to an hour.'cause I'm driving back

Jess Timmerman 11:01

across town.

Aaron Hudgins 11:02

Yeah. And I'm going to bed at 1130 each night, sometimes midnight. And I gotta get up in four hours because I gotta get a kid to, I had one kid that was so young that he had to go to childcare, which was in Mustang. Because that's where my grandma lived.

Jess Timmerman 11:17

Okay.

Aaron Hudgins 11:17

So it was at four o'clock driving him to my grandma's, dropping him off, coming back, getting in my uniform. I had never worked so hard in my entire life.

Jess Timmerman 11:27

Well, you're just mentioning logistics, let alone emotional warfare that, adolescents can put on. Right?

Aaron Hudgins 11:34

Oh my gosh. And the drama that comes with that. Kids and the long stories that I'm like, What are we talking about? Because kids will just go on and on and all of a sudden we're 45 minutes into this. And I'm I'm sorry, who? Who is this? And is this a thing? Did this really happen? They're like, oh yeah, this is just second hour. And I'm like. Okay, keep going. and then, I'm getting calls from soldiers and my leadership's Hey, I need that slide deck by, tomorrow at eight. And I'm oh my God, slide deck. No, I don't got time for that, but

Jess Timmerman 12:01

right?

Aaron Hudgins 12:01

not once did I ever think to myself, who in the world does this and, can, continuously do this. so I. I salute I have a deep amount of respect for the stay at home spouse, no matter what they, claim to be or not. If you have to stay home and you have to figure out a way to now become this singular team by yourself on the drop of a hat, which is exactly what happened to me, I, I commend anybody because. When I was deployed, I didn't deal with any of that. if you're looking at apples to oranges, it really is a completely different, setup because I'm not dealing with bills, I'm not dealing with kids, and any soldier that tried to manage their home on a deployment failed, Everyone failed every time. there's a lot of soldiers that really think from where they're at, they can make these decisions and manage money and manage their family from, 10,000 miles away. They are absolutely kidding themselves. It cannot be done. You have to give the reins, you have to trust your spouse enough to give them the reins and go, Hey, it is all yours.

Jess Timmerman 13:04

You have to run support

Aaron Hudgins 13:06

in those instances, I can be emotional support, from 10,000 miles away, but that's as far as my reach can extend.

Jess Timmerman 13:12

Correct.

Aaron Hudgins 13:13

And JJ saw that on a regular basis.'cause she loved FaceTiming. she would call, and I'm just talking to her about the day, you know, at like 11 or 12 o'clock at night, she was you look like someone had taken you behind the woodshed.

Jess Timmerman 13:26

They did. They're our

Aaron Hudgins 13:27

children. They really did all five of them. I'm outnumbered, I'm outgunned, I'm out. You know, and I love my kids. I have to say that I did a lot of soul searching when she came home. Even though she was in a wheelchair, she couldn't walk. Just seeing her getting off the van and coming to the house, I, I legitimately started getting emotional and, and started crying. because just, having her there helped me, regain some of my position back of, I'm the spouse, I'm the father. and she couldn't hardly help me, but she was helping me just sitting there,

Jess Timmerman 14:00

right

Aaron Hudgins 14:00

physically being there, allowed me to relax and reset every day. when she came in the house, I, I hug her and I was crying and she was whoa, she was taken back. She was not expecting the emotions to come with it. I, to this day, I will never forget that door opening. And she's whoa, what's wrong? And I was nothing. Just good to see you. You know? That was a mess. I was a absolute mess.

Jess Timmerman 14:23

You're right. That's not the burnout a day at the casino or by the pool's gonna fix. That's a

Aaron Hudgins 14:28

there's not enough alcohol in the state of Oklahoma. There's not enough drugs in that can be brought in my days off were just staring off into the abyss of, you know, the darkness. Like, oh sweet, take me now, but don't take me right now. I've got kids to drop off, so, and I've

Jess Timmerman 14:44

got

Aaron Hudgins 14:45

right. And I got two more at, church, I need to go get them. But after that, you know,

Jess Timmerman 14:49

schedule my breakdown for 4:30 on Friday.

Aaron Hudgins 14:51

That's right. You, you could schedule'em like clockwork. Yeah. looking back wow, I'm deeply impressed with all the stay at home spouses because I had never gotten that just. The amount. Yeah, absolutely. The emotion, everything. Absolutely.

Jess Timmerman 15:06

Thank you for sharing that because I think not in your culture, but in the larger American culture, I think we shy over the spouse serves too. The kids serve too.

Aaron Hudgins 15:16

They do.

Jess Timmerman 15:16

it's important to acknowledge that everybody sacrifices for our freedoms.

Aaron Hudgins 15:20

they get to see both sides of you. And a lot of times when there's the other parents with you, they don't because the other parent is really good at shielding and picking up where the other one left off. Totally. If you've got a great team, totally like we had a, a really good, the other one is filling in perfectly. all they see, a smooth, machine that, you know, they just take for granted that, oh, this is gonna be this every day. And then when you take that element out of it. it affects so much because as an adult, we're trying to keep this stoic No, I got this. Yep. I don't want them to see me break. But you're in the kitchen and you're in the bathroom and in the closet drinking your sorrows away in between, and I've done that where I went standby and I went into the closet and cracked a cold one and just pounded it. And I'm Okay. All right, let's do this. turned right around and went back out there and what's going on? You know, you put on the face, you put the mask on. They never saw it. The only time they saw it was when she came home and I was, and I couldn't believe how much it affected me just to see her back. I was like. Okay. I I get it now. I completely,

Jess Timmerman 16:24

you were white knuckling it, that whole deployment. Please don't let the wheels fall off.

Aaron Hudgins 16:27

No, I hope I can find all the wheels and if I found all the wheels, make sure they're not on fire, because they probably are. Yeah. It was, everything was just a second and third order effect from every decision.

Jess Timmerman 16:39

Yeah.

Aaron Hudgins 16:39

To go to make it to Tuesday and then to Wednesday. Yeah. it was absolutely the most, difficult. Position I've ever been in hands.

Jess Timmerman 16:47

I also, so to end that, I think if anyone's listening and has people in their social group, even if it's on their kids' volleyball team and has a deployed, even if you don't know the person, just offer to do something to take,

Aaron Hudgins 16:59

oh my gosh,

Jess Timmerman 17:00

a load off.

Aaron Hudgins 17:01

You know, if someone would've brought me an entire meal and Hey, here is a, a meal on us from Santa Fe Steakhouse. Or brought me a gift card so that I didn't have to cook.

Jess Timmerman 17:11

Right.

Aaron Hudgins 17:12

And oh my gosh, I probably would have,

Jess Timmerman 17:14

put them up for a Noble Peace prize.

Aaron Hudgins 17:16

Absolutely. Yeah. Because dinner was just a dinner and breakfast was an absolute nightmare.

Jess Timmerman 17:21

Oh yeah.

Aaron Hudgins 17:21

Trying to figure out how to get everyone in one position to take on and. and then

Jess Timmerman 17:26

you leave a sink full of dishes for when you're done work for the day.

Aaron Hudgins 17:30

You absolutely do. And it doesn't stop. some kids are like, they're hungry. 10 minutes after you're done. They're you know, I'm still hungry. And I'm like, okay. You know, you party, you wants to lash out and, and grab one of'em and you're, you know, and then the other part's like, you're, nope, I can't. Right. Somewhere. I think that's against the law. And I questioned myself many times. can I keep it together enough to get her home if I can just keep it together? And that eight months that she was gone, you know, she still had another four months technically to go. I still had to keep this pace going

Jess Timmerman 18:03

right until

Aaron Hudgins 18:03

she got, and I'm not sure if I would have made it or not. I mean, I, I made it up to that point,

Jess Timmerman 18:10

right.

Aaron Hudgins 18:10

when she came in, I knew how I reacted. Just seeing her was enough to let me know that I didn't know. I, I don't think I had much left up in the tank.

Jess Timmerman 18:19

Yeah.

Aaron Hudgins 18:19

and some of these families go 18 months without their spouse. And that is absolutely insane. You have to have some of the best support. on hopefully this planet. there's spouses out there that don't, and I can't believe that they do this and they do it multiple times,

Jess Timmerman 18:34

right?

Aaron Hudgins 18:35

And, and all they're giving is like, oh, you know, they're we're holding down the household. It's like, nah, they deserve more than that. They deserve so much more.

Jess Timmerman 18:43

Right.

Aaron Hudgins 18:43

A shout out at a formation and maybe some flowers on occasion. No, no. That's,

Jess Timmerman 18:48

we're downplaying it.

Aaron Hudgins 18:50

We are 100% downplaying what they do and how they hold all that together because it's nowhere the same. Nowhere the same.

Jess Timmerman 18:57

Okay. I guess we didn't explain. TMF stands for Travis Manion Foundation. Okay, put us in your shoes. You are retiring from service.

Aaron Hudgins 19:06

Yep.

Jess Timmerman 19:07

Leading up to, so much paperwork, there's so much to even get to that ceremony, retirement, stuff. Are you going in optimistic, excited, or with huge hole knot in your chest? Trepidation. What does my future look like? Because I'm not very old When you retire from the military,

Aaron Hudgins 19:25

Exactly. Correct. I wasn't looking forward to it. what had happened is, this is all branches. when you eclipse the 20 year mark, they start boarding you. so every two years you get boarded. that board they sit down and they go. What is it you're bringing to the table that the military still needs? you don't just keep serving. Once you hit that 20 year mark, they start evaluating you and then every two years they reevaluate. Reevaluate. my thought process was, I was gonna keep going until, they said, Hey, you know what, it's been great. that year came, I got boarded out, 26 years in. I've I, received three boards on the third board. They finally said, you know what, we don't see you progressing any farther in your career. you've served honorably. Thank you for your service. You have exactly 365 days and then you'll, be, discharged. it came as a shock. I was not prepared. it hurt because man, I've given everything I got to the service. I've given blood, sweat, and tears. I've deployed and then of course I lost my wife who is also serving. I really thought I good, probably I could have hit 30 with no problem, on my way out, I I was struggling with where do I go, what do I do? Because I wasn't really prepared. I didn't have a direction and distance I wanted to go. I didn't want to get a nine to five job. I wanted to do something that was going to inspire me, and give back. But I didn't, no clue what it was. I didn't know any of the organizations. what happened was, I, no joke, got a random email. from TMF. I didn't know who they were, I didn't know what it stood for. they just were offering an opportunity to go serve with other survivors. I had never been or even met another survivor, I lose my wife in 2018. 2022. I get my first email from, the Travis Mannion Foundation explaining who they are. I've never heard of them. what gave me a reason to go back and consider them is because of the date. Travis Manion died on April 29th, 2007. I was in Iraq in 2007, so I actually was there. I was just in a different location. so my wife was deployed. we had not met each other yet. She was there during the exact same time. Fast forward. My wife dies on April 29th, 2018. that's the same date, just a few, years difference. that really hit me in a man, is that a coincidence or what, that this guy, died on the same day. And that's what got me to go, let's just take a look at this organization. And so I did. Everything looked good. that's how it came to be. But I never heard of Travis. I'd never heard of the organization. the first time I even talked to anyone and I told'em that you should have seen the shock and awe on the Zoom call.'cause TMF was like, what? You've never heard of us? no, I've, no, I in Oklahoma never heard of you. but it's taken TMF from 2007 to now to make it. Where you know they're being actually recognized in Oklahoma.

Jess Timmerman 22:05

which is because of you. So Pat's on the back and your team. No one does it alone,

Aaron Hudgins 22:09

Yeah, no, I've got an amazing group of, volunteers that have jumped on this bandwagon and was like, let's ride this, to the end. I've got a great group of people that said, Hey, we wanna be a part of this as well. So yeah, absolutely.

Jess Timmerman 22:20

I can say it because I am one of them in my soul, we East Coasters have a bias that the world just exists. Even Philly, where TMF is to Baltimore is like 76 miles, but you would think they are on different planets. Everyone's the best, their football team is the best. my friends in Maryland I don't even know if they could draw where Oklahoma is. somewhere that way?

Aaron Hudgins 22:41

Oh yeah. No. Every one of'em, when I met'em, do you have a truck and a gun rack? no, no. I drive a car. I got indoor plumbing. you know,

Jess Timmerman 22:48

all life here.

Aaron Hudgins 22:49

Yeah. It's not what you think it is, but they were are you sure? Oh yeah. We've got everything you've got.

Jess Timmerman 22:53

you hit on, those moments in life and whether it's a date or a place and TMF and in this conversation you brought up two moments where this seems bigger than me. that date in Iraq. those are the moments that we, sometimes when we're so busy in life, we don't stop and pause and we're like, wait a second. I'm supposed to be paying attention here I think it's really awesome that they came your way when you needed them and they needed you.

Aaron Hudgins 23:15

Absolutely. you hit it right on the head. I wish I could, share that more because a lot of times we don't see the signs and we just go on by and never think twice about it. I happen to take a step back and go, wait a minute. that's a really weird coincidence that these two almost line

Jess Timmerman 23:29

And you did the really hard work'cause you're saying, JJ passed in 2018, 2022. there were years there where you're figuring out what the next step is. I think to many people either overcoming a loss. I'm gonna put that in with transitioning out of the military. It is a grief. It is, something we didn't necessarily ask for, now we have to figure it out. it's a good story to know because I know many people that. I I guess I have the duality of knowing what it's to be a civilian, but having loved ones in the service, we hype it up. you're 42 and you're getting retired and you have four streams of income and free healthcare. You got it made, But we don't talk about any of the other stuff, the survivor's guilt or we're too young to be reevaluating what you want to do next. just know so many people right now in the thick of it, and not even the thick of it, that they are suicidal or they are in heaps of despair, but it's, oh, this is retirement. I'm supposed to be enjoying it and now I'm drinking 20 beers a day, or, it just, yeah. It's good to know that there is a whole big life capable of everything you've done before and more out there.

Aaron Hudgins 24:41

Oh yeah, no other. And that's, man, you absolutely bring up a really good point because I am young. I could have retired a lot sooner, but, I knew that the train was coming to an end. Sooner or later, everything's gotta come to an end. That chapter's gotta be closed. And so I knew it was coming. I wanted to be it on my terms. sometimes that just doesn't play. I'm starting to see now that Probably should have got out sooner because I was treading water. I wasn't trying to, build myself, into a super soldier anymore. I wasn't trying to find that next promotion or next dream assignment. I was treading water. it was hard to accept. I'm glad that things happened the way it did. the quote I live by now is I've learned to love the very thing I wish never happened. And that's not just about jj, but it's about a lot. It also applies to this where my career finally came to an end and I was like. Now what? Now what do I do? I'm not geared for civilian life. I have no idea what civilians do. I don't even know what civilians eat.

Jess Timmerman 25:34

it's interesting that you say that in the short time, I've known you probably 18 months or so, I think of you as this achiever. I can't imagine that there is an Aaron that. treading water. I just, I don't see it.

Aaron Hudgins 25:46

I get that a lot and it is funny'cause I don't share that part of it, but I felt Right now it's probably a good time as I need to share some of the parts of. being as human as possible and see things and go, you know what, there was a better version of me. It wasn't there. it should have been, but it wasn't. I'm not entirely proud of it, but it also makes me extremely human that, not all of us high achievers or people that are built around, that next task, that next assignment, that next given, driven. We too can come to a point in our life that we just go, you know what, I'm just. I'm okay with just being here and I did it for a while. So yeah, it was definitely time.

Jess Timmerman 26:22

You talk about, stages of grief and loss and I sometimes think that's ingrained in our brain that we're supposed to go from A to B2C. you're right, I've been on an expedition in Arizona as well, which, there was only one dude like you. I think we're too hard on ourself about that. I was in such a hurry to get to this post-traumatic growth to do what you just said, to love the worst thing that's happened to me. I'm far from that. But, That is another thing where you inspire me. I had this idea of a podcast in May, 2024. I bought the microphone, have this great backdrop, which you don't see now'cause, crap happens and you still have to show up. that is a Travis Manion ethos, if not me, than who.

Aaron Hudgins 27:01

Yep.

Jess Timmerman 27:02

But in bigger thing, if something scares the crap out of you, it might be for your better. Good. I just jump in.

Aaron Hudgins 27:09

it's scary to jump in because a lot of us have a problem with accepting, failure that, you know what? we're gonna take a step into the unknown and. We could possibly fail. I look at that now and see that as what I hope I do, I hope I fail, so that I have the opportunity to reevaluate, reset and get back in it. I look forward to failure. I'm, look forward to rejection. So that I can see it. Yeah. Can

Jess Timmerman 27:34

you share with everyone the, challenge you put on yourself and how is it going, by the way?

Aaron Hudgins 27:38

Oh, man. So I'm an avid TikTok I'll watch video after video of just random stuff, and outta nowhere I got this TikTok. From a girl that is doing what she calls the thousand reject challenge, which is a lot of rejection. basically you purposely go looking to try to find things that is outta your wheelhouse. out of something you would never in a million years think you would attempt and try to see, can you get rejected or will it open a door that you never thought would ever open? And will you take the step inside? so I saw that as an inspiring, you know what, I have no problem, with applying for things that I have no business applying for. And let's just see where it takes me.'cause I've got, nothing but time on my hands. I'm retired and if for whatever reason it spoke to me and I got a notebook and I started writing down I send out two potential rejections every week. I try to kept it simple by going with things that I know. I have a possibility maybe I get it, maybe I don't. so I've started sending out to multiple podcasts, Hey, maybe you wanna hear my story, or, I've sent out a couple of magazines, which, was not something I would ever want to do, and I was hesitant, but I thought, oh, these are perfect. this is a good start. Okay. I sent'em out. I got a magazine, interview last week. I was completely shocked. really? You wanna hear my story? And he is like, yeah, this is gonna resonate. And I'm oh, okay. now it takes a while to get the rejections going. since January I've done two a week and I've mailed out, or I've applied a job. uh, applied to, being a, substitute teacher. Just because I wanted to be one when I was younger, but now,

Jess Timmerman 29:08

oh goodness.

Aaron Hudgins 29:09

I know. So this is scary. put me in a classroom with a bunch of kids. This could be either good or bad, I don't know. But I've applied and so I've got that ball rolling. I'm starting to look at things that are just like. what could I possibly learn from this that will, better me or show my kids that, Hey, you know what, this isn't a bad thing. And I think rejection is hard for a lot of people to accept. Totally. I purposely went, you know what? Go ahead. I'm gonna throw everything at you, but the kitchen sink. Tell me why that I'm not a good fit for this and I can accept it, but I wanna apply and see where it takes me.

Jess Timmerman 29:43

Okay. I can't wait to hear how it ends.

Aaron Hudgins 29:45

Me too.

Jess Timmerman 29:46

You've gotta throw some outlandish ones in there, Miss Universe or something. That's if you need to stack up some rejections,

Aaron Hudgins 29:52

I have some in my box of oh, this is going to happen for comical reasons. And just to see. Where that goes and you'll be one of the first people I share with you with my other rejection or my acceptance into some organization that I have no business being in.

Jess Timmerman 30:09

Oh man. Interesting. I know you are standard operating procedure guy, but I like that I asked you last second and kept it vague because think it's more natural a little bit, but,

Aaron Hudgins 30:20

it's actually a lot of fun when I'm, I have no idea where the script's going. So

Jess Timmerman 30:22

you must trust me a little bit because it could go sideways real fast too. okay. Wow. We touched on some good things. Your wife is still in the services, correct?

Aaron Hudgins 30:33

Yeah, so I'm a sucker for a woman in uniform. I guess that's

Jess Timmerman 30:37

badass. Women in uniform,

Aaron Hudgins 30:39

they're amazing women in uniform that, as they progress in rank, they get even tougher and way harder to approach. after my wife's death, I tried to date and it did not work out well at all, and, I found myself going back and so my wife now, I've known for actually 15 years, Came and it was completely out of the, left field because we had known each other. We'd served with each other for a while. matter of fact, I hired her 15 years ago as a technician up at, the state. And, we kept touching base and kept going forward and she kept progressing in rank. And then she just kept coming back and asking me, Hey, can you mentor me on this? Can you answer this for me? it just, it progressed and then about 15 years, about a little over two years ago, she was like, Hey, how about you? And I try this? I was really shocked because I was like, I'm in a bad spot. I'm not sure if I, I'm the ideal person for you. And she was like, no, I think you're great. I was like, I'm pretty broke. And she was like, not to me or not.

Jess Timmerman 31:33

I shouldn't laugh at that. I'm sorry, but that means No, it's okay. There's something about you people that are inspired by service. You thought you were doing a disservice to somebody you loved you thought she deserved better than you. You are selflessly sacrificing.

Aaron Hudgins 31:46

there's someone out there. you can find someone better than me. I'm just a, has been, I don't know. But it

Jess Timmerman 31:51

you tried to talk her out of it.

Aaron Hudgins 31:52

Yeah. And she would not accept it. so we said, let's run for it. And so here we are. she's been absolutely amazing. I can't say enough, things about her, she's my backbone, my best friend. I think because it took us so long and we learned each other, taking the long way she was actually there for my wife when she died, she was at the funeral. we talked to each other throughout after her death and she became someone I could, lean on, and she always checked in on me. it was just only natural that we, do something more than just, Work together or know each other. I look back on it now and that's the way it should have been. she's getting the best version of me now. I am hands down the best version of myself I could possibly be. She deserves that and that's what she's getting. I commend her it may have taken 15 years, but we're here now and we're doing the best thing, for our kids. We got a huge, beautiful, big blended family.

Jess Timmerman 32:42

I'm glad you touched on it.'cause it's a defining thing. The amount of kids

Aaron Hudgins 32:45

we look like a big Mormon family, it's, it's funny, but we love it. The kids are fantastic. I love her kids as much as. I love my own,

Jess Timmerman 32:52

and what an example. We agree on that and as does the Travis Manion Foundation about building up the next generation of youth, you and your wife are doing it every day, hardcore examples and what a gift in all the kids' healings. Also with JJ passing the way she did, I don't know where spirituality ranks on your character values, but to me there's a lot of coincidences in your life that the world is looking out for you.

Aaron Hudgins 33:17

Yeah. I'm not a religious man, but I do believe in signs and things that, align when they need to align, and that's exactly what happened. I think that everything, was gonna happen, it'll happen. And so. It did and it couldn't have been more. It couldn't have been better,

Jess Timmerman 33:32

okay. And she's an E-8. How rare is that for us non-military people?

Aaron Hudgins 33:37

It's very rare. Matter of fact, not only is it rare her situation being a master sergeant now. She's only got one military MOS, which is unusual usually. most military, when we make it to past E-7, hit the eight and the nine. We all have multiple MOS, multiple jobs that we have been trained for. She has been HR since the very beginning of her career, which is a 42 alpha, and she has somehow been able to weigh to get through all the ranks and make it to eight, which is almost unheard of. She's extremely unique in that sense to have only one job, and she's made it as far as she has. And there for a second we thought she wasn't gonna make past seven. Ooh, you know, this opened up a few months ago and it was a complete blessing. Well deserved. And so I'm extremely proud of her for being able to achieve something that less than I believe, five or 6% ever make it to eight. But for female that only has one MOS and that MOS is not a big MOS to have, it's even rare. So her, ability to make that rank was extremely rare.

Jess Timmerman 34:43

It's incredible. okay, so we've talked about some of the amazing things you guys do. I have to balance this out. Do you have some sort of uninspiring thing that's happened to you this week

Aaron Hudgins 34:52

uninspired, thing that's happened to me this week? we're working on getting a bench, a memorial bench put in, Jones, Oklahoma for a fallen hero. we've, hit a milestone. On this journey because we're learning as we go. how do we make this thing happen? How do we get one put in a park and we hit a, a big deal where someone stepped in and was Hey, we will donate all the concrete Wow for, the bench. And we were holy cow, that's expensive and greatly appreciated. it was a big milestone because we're starting to gear up. where do we go? Who do we ask? what's the process? And there's a lot to it. You can't just go put a bench in a park and then leave, people don't notice. And so it's been a journey, just to get this far. About two months ago is when we started this, matter of fact, yesterday was when we got the news. alright, now let's start moving forward. So now we're onto the next stage.

Jess Timmerman 35:42

I think that'll be a theme of your rejection challenge. I think the more. You put your face out there, the more allies you have in this. I can't believe somebody donated concrete.

Aaron Hudgins 35:52

yeah,

Jess Timmerman 35:52

so cool. And it's just the right time,

Aaron Hudgins 35:54

It's what are the odds?

Jess Timmerman 35:56

I don't know.

Aaron Hudgins 35:56

I dunno where you're going with this. Spiritual

Jess Timmerman 35:58

no. I'm not going Spirit. I was gonna say that in edits. I'm not trying to give you a religious, edit here.

Aaron Hudgins 36:03

No, it's okay. That's funny though.

Jess Timmerman 36:04

No, I just think it's just funny.

Aaron Hudgins 36:06

Absolutely. I don't know how it happened or why it, but it happened when it needed to happen and, are able to move forward with that.

Jess Timmerman 36:12

Maybe the message is there are more like-minded people on our mission than we ever know about, or that can relate to a part of it,

Aaron Hudgins 36:19

Yeah. I, I've been picking'em up one at a time here and there. We get one, someone joins or steps out and says, Hey, I've got this. Can we? can you use that? it's been like, oh man, that's awesome. I don't know where you've been, but you couldn't have shown up at a better time than right now.

Jess Timmerman 36:33

so cool. if anyone listening, if you are like Aaron and I, and service fills your soul, there are. Wonderful survivor, veteran military organizations. where your passion lies. There are some that do fitness challenges. but to people like Aaron and I, it is just so incredible to be with other people like you. serving your fellow man,

Aaron Hudgins 36:55

And you don't have to be a veteran. I tell people that all the time that we're in an organization that inspired civilians. Come on in. I met a couple the other day they're with an organization called, Warriors for Freedom. they were started by a civilian. Altogether they had no service time whatsoever. to me that's unheard of. I don't know any veteran organization that was started by a civilian that had no military background

Jess Timmerman 37:15

You're right.'cause it's a hard fight. if you essentially don't have a dog in the fight, that is really inspired. that must be what that person's supposed to do. They're empathetic to that.

Aaron Hudgins 37:25

it's a great organization. I plan on doing some collaborating with them pretty soon. I they've, figured out some stuff that I'm like, that was genius, man. That's well done. they've got a secondhand store, thrift store that they use as their ability to raise money and funds.

Jess Timmerman 37:39

That's how they get funding.

Aaron Hudgins 37:39

that's how they get in the fun and they are making it work. wow. Well done. I never thought about building a thrift store and that is what's paying for all their, expenses and everything like that. Well done. Bravo, man.

Jess Timmerman 37:51

And I think that's a unique about our, I'm gonna call it our job, but I'm not, you're not getting paid. in this, healing space. If you find your people, it's not one of competition, It's one of collaboration. Those people, I'm sure would be we were trying to find an interesting, you know, no one knows what sells to all these things cost money. I, it's like not the sexy part of nonprofits, but, Yeah,

Aaron Hudgins 38:13

I was gonna sell meth and apparently that's a bad thing. But you know,

Jess Timmerman 38:17

they ask that you not wear your company logo shirts if you're doing that.

Aaron Hudgins 38:21

Exactly that. I, okay, that's a bad idea. Thrift store. Yeah, I meant thrift store.

Jess Timmerman 38:25

good job, Aaron.

Aaron Hudgins 38:26

Yeah.

Jess Timmerman 38:27

okay, I got closing thoughts for you. we hit on a couple things. Losing a spouse, 26 years of service, I don't know if the average person knows the Oklahoma National Guard deploys more than a lot of other states. If you look at our natural disasters or who we're close to. you've seen a lot of stuff. How would you encourage someone going through any of the struggles we touched on today?

Aaron Hudgins 38:52

going through, loss or going through where your tribe is. I try to tell people that, don't sit idle. Don't sit and wait for something to come to you. Go out there and find it. Go. when you come to a fork in the road, take it, meaning I don't care if it's left, right down the middle, find a direction and take it and just see where it takes you. Don't sit and wait and go, woe is me. You know, no one likes me. or, life is kicking me while I'm down. Get back up and find find something and maybe do a rejection challenge and go, you know what? I'm gonna go find someone to come reject me. Just so I can get that, that, feeling of, someone's actually acknowledging me. And so I, I encourage everyone to. Just go find, go forward, don't look back, don't worry about it. there's things we can't change. out of our control. But moving forward, just keep moving forward. a good day, one of my quotes is, a bad day moving forward is better than a good day. Standing. Still

Jess Timmerman 39:48

a good one. Okay. And I love that you said that, I don't know if you remember this, but sometime in the time we've known each other maybe I didn't seem like I was doing anything and you checked in like you got you. I'm somebody that if everything has to be perfect for me to take the big step, the scary thing, you're, we're never gonna move. And that's,

Aaron Hudgins 40:07

yep.

Jess Timmerman 40:07

That's not really a life I'm trying to live. then like doing what we're doing right now. I scheduled 10 podcasts this week. Just throw myself in the deep end. figure it out late. I could call you later and say, I didn't hit record and we'd have to do this all again,

Aaron Hudgins 40:22

That was rough because I don't know if I can bring this,

Jess Timmerman 40:25

this is good energy. We went, spirituality.

Aaron Hudgins 40:28

Yeah. The next one would look really awkward with us, like anticipating what the next question's gonna be.

Jess Timmerman 40:32

Totally.

Aaron Hudgins 40:33

I'm glad that you're doing it. I'm glad you're going for it. it's never gonna be a perfect time to do it, so do it.

Jess Timmerman 40:38

Yeah. Thank you Aaron, so much for, I texted you yesterday and said, what are you doing on Tuesday? Do you mean tomorrow? And you said Yes. And we made a time even with all the kids and all the things. thank you absolutely so much for being so honest

Aaron Hudgins 40:52

You're welcome.

Jess 40:53

It means the world to me that you clicked Sparking the Torch Pod. If you like what you heard, please leave me a five star review. If you've got a story you'd like to have highlighted, shoot me an email. Thanks again.