Episode 3 - Jared - Faith/Rural America/Mental Health

Rural areas have 20% fewer primary care providers than urban areas. Accessibility plus harmful reasoning regarding character flaws or cultural weakness contribute to stigma in communities grounded in pride and work ethic. Jared, a fellow SHS soccer player and now beloved pastor discusses it all and reminds us, no one is beyond redemption. 

This series discusses suicide and may be activating for some individuals. If you or anyone you know is struggling, please let them know that help is available. You can call or text 988 anytime in the US and Canada.

If you are a first responder or loved one of a first responder and are curious of resources. The following organizations can be a great place to start. https://badgeoflife.org Psychological Health - National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund Mental Health: Tools and Other Resources | NATIONAL SHERIFFS’ ASSOCIATION Home | SAMHSA - Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration

Transcript

Jess 0:00

Welcome to Sparking the Torch Podcast. My name is Jess and I'll be your guide weekly to highlight guest tales of lived experiences that offer illuminating ideas and insights. Three years ago, my brother slash best friend died while on active duty in the US Army. The worst possible outcome happened, and I thought I'd never get by. When my world was dark others poured their light into me. Now it's my turn to return the favor. Storytelling inspires hope. Join us each week fellow torch sparklers, and prepare for transformation.

Jess Timmerman 0:32

Good afternoon, torch sparklers. this first season, we're chatting with the most encouraging people I know today. It's my esteemed honor of introducing Jared Sonenberg. Welcome to the pod.

Jared Sonnenberg 0:43

Hey, thanks for having me.

Jess Timmerman 0:44

Yep. Thanks again. Jared and I went to high school in the same town, go Tigers and, we haven't kept in touch besides social media. He was two grades older than me, but, he has a very intriguing job and, I'm gonna leave it at that'cause I hate for other people to define me. Jared, can you tell our listeners about yourself and why? When I've been brainstorming your name kept. why you think I called you?

Jared Sonnenberg 1:08

That's a big question. I guess maybe why you called me. I'll leave that up to you to define for the listeners, but I think probably the space, That you're interested in terms of having me elaborate? in my part of life would be probably, the ministry aspect and my chaplaincy work and then how that intersects with mental health. I feel like that kind of God has called me to that work. Specifically the intersection of faith and mental health. is that enough of a preview? You want me to keep,

Jess Timmerman 1:34

I was trying to keep this organic, so that is a good one. okay, yes, it's cool that I went to high school with somebody that is now in ministry and I you're not the only one. my notes said don't say great. Don't say cool, and I'm doing it. Okay. What I think is very interesting, I went to college in a urban community and you and I grew up in a rural mm-hmm. So say the 10 people that listen to my podcast have no idea, of rural dynamics. Right. the town we went to high school in, is 12,000 people or less. The top industries would be a hospital, a prison. And probably ag related jobs. And so, when you work in. Industries where your finances and family's livelihood depend on if we have storms or how much rain we get. being a chaplain in a community that is composed like that, you have to be a renaissance man of some sort to be effective to everyone that comes your way.

Jared Sonnenberg 2:32

I think you're spot on with that and there's. At least what I've noticed in our area, but I don't think it's unique to Northeast Colorado. There's this idea in rural America that we should just, everybody should just pull themselves up by, there's that saying, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. a lot of people have probably heard that. but what I've found is what if people don't have bootstraps or don't have the boots, and we don't have as many resources out here, particularly for. things like mental health or crises or the stuff that comes up in life and at least my family, great family, but we grew up, we just didn't talk about that stuff. Some of it was heritage of that German culture, which is where our family was originally from, and you get that kind of hardened perspective I think in rural America, maybe easier than you do in some more urban areas. trying to make inroads with people and help people understand it's okay to talk about the stuff that's difficult. It doesn't make you weak. it doesn't mean that you're failing to say that. Sometimes life's not easy and sometimes I'm stressed or sometimes I get down or sometimes I need a little help or I need to a trusted person I can talk to. that's been a slow road, but it's been a worthwhile journey and I think we're starting to get people in at least. The part of the world that I'm in to understand that it's okay that mental health is real. It's as real as our spiritual health. It's as real as our physical health. And we need to not ignore it. And we need to find people to talk. We need podcasts. we need all of these avenues to make these connection points as people and realize that we have a lot more in common than we have, not in common.

Jess Timmerman 4:03

I agree. I think that rhetoric benefits so many people that aren't us every day that we're so divided, and we really do have so much more in common no matter where we live, what we do for a living, who we love. we're all humans and have been trained to not as, be connected as previous generations

Jared Sonnenberg 4:23

I would add to it, while you're looking, technology is great, You and I are talking via the magic of technology, but what I've found, especially with the kids that I've worked with, it lulls people into a false sense of relationship. So technology can keep us connected, but. A lot of people, have a lot of missing connections and I think COVID put this on warp speed for a lot of folks. And the use of Zoom and some of these other things Are now standing in place of real relationships. So getting back and helping people understand there's value in using technology and visiting with Zoom, but we need to get back to sitting down face to face. There's real value in human to human connection.

Jess Timmerman 5:02

How do you tackle that as A person in ministry, do you think? it's more getting the resources to parents and saying, Hey, there is a time and place for technology. We just need to be careful with it. Or, how do you think we tackle that?

Jared Sonnenberg 5:17

yes to that question. I actually work, with our sergeant of detectives with the police department here in Sterling. He's got a presentation. we're working on a safe church kind of presentation for local churches. Just how to handle if someone were to, to interrupt a worship or a Bible study. Maybe it's a mental health crisis or it could be a number of things. then he's also going to talk about safe internet usage. He does that presentation, so trying to make people aware actually have a good friend of mine who I met through the chaplaincy world, they lost their daughter as a result of social media and technology. She's currently with a group of other parents. she was just on Fox News. yesterday or the day before, it's the shot family. Laurie Shot's doing amazing work, trying to hold some of these tech companies accountable for their algorithms, and there's just some stuff that exists in those spaces that probably shouldn't be available to kids. Totally. How do we not get rid of technology, but how do we make it safer for our children? I think it's honestly just one conversation at a time. And people will reach out to me via text or messenger, and if I can, I prefer to meet with people face-to-face if that's possible. Let's make the connection via the power of technology. But particularly with kids, if we're gonna do any type of counseling coaching with'em, I just, I wanna sit down with them, provided that, you have the parent's approval and consent, You just get so much watching facial expressions, body language, how people hold themselves. You can tell a lot about somebody's spiritual and mental health, particularly you get to sit down with them.

Jess Timmerman 6:48

You do bring up a valid point. The judicial branch is kind of lag. I guess we're still figuring out like how do we hold these tech count? what is consent when a kid gets, and it's very scary raising kids. you think you're doing all the right things and online is this whole other beast we can't regulate even if we think we can.

Jared Sonnenberg 7:09

Yeah, absolutely. And there is a line because we don't wanna, at least for me personally, I don't think we should trample on the First Amendment, but we do have a responsibility, to communicate safely. it's like the old saying, just because you can yell fire doesn't mean you should go into a movie theater and yell, fire.

Jess Timmerman 7:26

Right.

Jared Sonnenberg 7:27

It's your, so where that line is, I agree with you, within the judicial system, we're still very much in process of figuring out where that line is and what should be available, what shouldn't be available. Are there more safeguards so that a kid just can't say, yes, I'm over 21, or Yes, I'm over 18. Should there be some process of verifying that and. Yeah. my prayers are with every person that wants to engage in these conversations because, it's our job as the adults, I feel like, to make the world as safe as we can for our kids.

Jess Timmerman 7:56

Right.

Jared Sonnenberg 7:56

Can't protect'em from everything, but we have to try to make it safe.

Jess Timmerman 7:59

We have to advocate for them Until they have the power to do it for themselves. Yep.

Jared Sonnenberg 8:03

Absolutely.

Jess Timmerman 8:03

in you guys as community, have they gotten rid of cell phones on campus? do you see kids like having lunch together more often or.

Jared Sonnenberg 8:11

So that has been brought to the school board, about. Locking up cell phones or not allowing them in the classroom. and actually the clinician that I work under in the counseling side of my life, she's a big proponent. She's got a presentation as well. Nothing has been formalized in terms of policy, but there are people that are starting those conversations saying, we need to at least talk through this. What's the safest way, at least when kids are in the school setting, what's the safest thing for them? And then there's the logistical component, because. You get pushback and people say, if they don't have cell phones, if something bad happens at school that they can't call, well, in our area, the line's going into the Emergency Communications Center limited. So If there's a school full of kids making the same phone call and all the parents you overwhelm the 9 1 1 center, which then can't effectively communicate with the responders that are trying to respond. there's constant dialogue. I do appreciate that people have at least brought that to the table for conversation the last couple years.

Jess Timmerman 9:09

Okay. Okay, so is every part of your job heavy? Do you have brevity? Do you get to do fun baby showers and weddings and,

Jared Sonnenberg 9:17

yeah, I do. It's not every part of our life. is heavy. Our middle daughter, they're expecting their second baby in April, so we'll be grandparents for the second time. Incredible. A month and a half. Yeah. Our oldest daughter lives in Arizona. We're gonna make a quick trip down to see her this weekend. our youngest daughter is finishing up at Northeastern and when she's done, she wants to go into law enforcement, so she's gonna. Enter the sheriff's department ranks and go to, the post academy. there's good stuff and, youth groups and getting to preach on Sundays and I do quite a bit of weddings. I would say even funerals, are not fun in that sense of the word, but for me it's an honor to be trusted to, to give the last public words of someone's life. I meet a lot of great families and a lot of wonderful people under difficult circumstances, but it's a very humbling.

Jess Timmerman 10:07

I'm glad you brought that up. before I meet with anybody, I try to sit down and think of words I want to use and yours. I did say the Renaissance person. I said adept, highly skilled, passionate, not judgmental, empathetic. that's just how I. I have no idea what your day-to-day looks like, but somebody could come in and tell you the most outlandish thing and you would sit there and hold space for them. I think that if you weren't doing funerals, you would be denying a gift. You have to be able to do that.

Jared Sonnenberg 10:36

thank you for those.

Jess Timmerman 10:38

You could tell me you're like, you haven't seen me in 20 years. I really run an underground poker ring. But

Jared Sonnenberg 10:43

as much fun as that would be, I'm not a very good gambler, so I'd probably be broke. No. My day-to-day life, so I'm blessed to co-own our family's insurance agency, which, we've transitioned ownership from my dad, to myself and a couple other partners, which that gives me the flexibility to do the ministry stuff and that work that I'm called to, because That's all volunteer. And then our church is, just a smaller country church. So, them having a big pastoral expense, not necessary. my day-to-day life is being flexible. And then the chaplaincy side, we really as chaplains have to be all call'em religious plurals, for exactly the reason you said to hold space for other people. I have to stay true to my own faith. but yet I have to hold space for people that. Might believe something different or don't believe anything at all. to do that without judgment, that's a very specialized kind of ministry. And at the end of the day, we just have to trust that God sorts it all out. We don't have to agree on everything, but we're certainly not the gatekeepers of the faith as pastors. no matter what denomination you are, doesn't matter or what religion you are, it God just asks us to be faithful. And trust him enough to sort out a lot of the things that we probably try too hard, in my opinion, to be in control of.

Jess Timmerman 12:00

Yeah. Okay. That I, I try to, listen in the present. That's not where I thought you were going. That was good.

Jared Sonnenberg 12:07

No. where did you think I was going?

Jess Timmerman 12:08

In my head, which I shouldn't do, it's, Everybody our age thinks they have a DHD, but I was already thinking of the next question. And so, faith I am a Christian. I believe Jesus died for our sins. I also hold space for. I think again, back to our world being divisive, I think, sometimes we get this us first them thing and that is not Jesus. Jesus loves me the same, going to church on Sunday as he loves the person that's in the bar I hope people hear that and realize there's always a place for them and always seen with love.

Jared Sonnenberg 12:41

I would agree. And if people decide or. if God's put it on their heart that they need to change course. I hope people realize that it's never too late to do that. the scriptural precedent for that is Jesus is hanging on the cross with a criminal that had never given his life to God. And literally in the final moments of his life, he realizes who Jesus is. And Jesus says, we're gonna walk through the doors of paradise together.

Jess Timmerman 13:05

Right.

Jared Sonnenberg 13:06

And to me that's encouraging that God is not beyond faith, is not beyond the reach for anybody. Now there's that accountability part that we have to do our part and accept that, but it's open to anyone at any time, no matter where you're at and your walk of life. And if people don't choose that, I still believe that they're God's creation and love by God.

Jess Timmerman 13:24

it's always progress over perfection.

Jared Sonnenberg 13:26

agreed,

Jess Timmerman 13:26

do a little

Jared Sonnenberg 13:27

better. Perfection doesn't exist,

Jess Timmerman 13:29

right? We're all human.

Jared Sonnenberg 13:30

Mm-hmm.

Jess Timmerman 13:31

We're all human.

Jared Sonnenberg 13:31

And I try to post on Facebook, I do a mental health moment of the week and. tag some people in it, but I try to, I think I may have tagged you in my last one after we talked, and just try to put out,'cause I just want this idea that mental health is not something that should be shrouded in secrecy. We shouldn't pretend like it doesn't exist. And I think as we continue to have these conversations, like these podcasts and let people know it's okay to talk about these things, I think we just, we bring down that stigma just a little bit. Some of those blocks come out of the wall that we tend to put up ar around our psyches around ourselves for protection. I think the more we do that, the healthier we become.

Jess Timmerman 14:06

I do think your posts on Mondays are very encouraging and, I do think the average person doesn't know a farmer is 3.5 times more likely to die by suicide than the average profession. I grew up the granddaughter of a farmer. My dad grew up on a farm in brush. that is what led me to Sterling in high school with you. I if we're talking about suicide, when you meet fellow lost survivors and they talk about their loved ones, the words that come up are they were so caring or so sensitive. Or the person that was always checking on me like. So that theme of these people, Aren't, the cream of the crop is a hundred percent wrong, They, they didn't want to die. They wanted the pain to end. And, sometimes people just don't know how loved they are. How many doors there are left to be open.

Jared Sonnenberg 14:56

Correct. And I think even the way that we talk about, self harm and some of those things, I think even tweaking the language can be a big thing. So instead of,

Jess Timmerman 15:08

are you going with the committed word

Jared Sonnenberg 15:10

Uhhuh? yeah. You, and you even think, if you want to use the word suicide instead of Just died of it.

Jess Timmerman 15:17

You're right, the etymology of that word, it probably could be done better.

Jared Sonnenberg 15:21

Yeah. but that's all important in my opinion. again, it just, it's kinda removing some of those bricks away and being aware of the language that we choose. talking about self-harm should never be, it should never be a punchline in a joke and a hundred percent. And there's, I think in society, in the past. Maybe they were, and I'm all in favor of pushing for anything we can change of that. self-harm and fatal self-harm. I almost prefer those over suicide. And then, but if we're gonna talk about suicides that have committed, like you just said, I'd prefer died by

Jess Timmerman 15:53

correct

Jared Sonnenberg 15:54

suicide.

Jess Timmerman 15:54

And I think none of us know what to do. If you know better, you do better. it's funny, I had this idea for this podcast a couple years ago, and it was more Zach based. And, this idea of talking to people to me that inspire hope. But in all these episodes, Zach keeps coming up and that's very who he was in life. this is his party. I'm just conducting it, But, even the idea of self-harm or fatal self-harm, I had to write the obituary for my brother, and I just followed precedent of what everyone else had done before. I I was creatively more him with it than, resume builders. But we never say how they pass. And then so the average curious person sees a young person pass assumes things or starts Googling right.

Jared Sonnenberg 16:41

mm-hmm.

Jess Timmerman 16:42

it's just a way our psyche maybe prevents us thinking that we could die young but it's not helpful if we don't have those conversations.

Jared Sonnenberg 16:50

And when we talk about self-harm, there are so many nuances to it. that's what I wish people understood, and you alluded to it. wanting to stop hurting is not necessarily the same thing as having this elaborate plan, but if you don't understand or you don't have these conversations or you don't seek information or education, it's easy to just kinda lump it all together and You do realize that mental health is very nuanced, the way that we talk about it does matter and it's really easy to stigmatize things. if you don't take time to understand the power of words and how to engage in conversation and do so from an educated viewpoint. So that's what I hope people will start learning, is that it behooves all of us

Jess Timmerman 17:28

correct.

Jared Sonnenberg 17:29

to consume more information, to be a little bit more aware, to be more kind, to be more compassionate, to realize that there are our nuances to this. And if we wanna take care of people well. If we wanna support each other, we need to understand those nuances.

Jess Timmerman 17:43

Correct. And we all trauma-based practices, and we all come into things with our own biases. And it is important when we're trying to help each other to Check those.

Jared Sonnenberg 17:53

Mm-hmm.

Jess Timmerman 17:54

Yeah.

Jared Sonnenberg 17:55

I would say the hard thing with self-harm in particular, we can do all that. And yet we have to also reach a point that realizing that each person's actions are theirs and we can help and we can support as much as we can, but we really, truly don't have the power to control another person. and that's a very difficult realization. If you've ever lost anybody to self-harm you. You do realize that truth, but I don't think that should stop our effort to support well. cause maybe people don't get to that point where that becomes the only option. I applaud you for starting this podcast for anybody that wants to have these conversations because this is really, we may not be able to change the world, but we may be able to either expand our sphere of influence or maybe we can reach just a few more folks. And it's your idea about just a spark and

Jess Timmerman 18:43

Right.

Jared Sonnenberg 18:44

I think we need to be those sparks.

Jess Timmerman 18:46

I think, and you alluded to something too of depending on the day, I would give myself like a, b, B minus for my healing. I have my days where, I'll never get to an A. You ask the questions till you run out. But there is still an unhealed part of my trauma that thinks if I could just get there, I could have stopped that, And that's. I am not God. I coulda would've should've. And that's not healthy. That's immature in my progress. But, the idea that, who knows? it's a lot of pressure. If you think, My brother and I are a team, and he's not here to continue to serve my unkind. So all of this is on me, in being a mental health advocate, it's one of the jobs you hope to not have one day, right? But that's not part of the human experience. I'm mumbling a lot, you nailed it. I can't do it by myself. You can't do it by yourself. But if we get together and share stories and just think of like light pouring into each other, who knows who this inspires and what they do with it. because all life's worth living and we all deserve our experience here. Yeah.

Jared Sonnenberg 19:51

grief is and I don't mean this to sound pessimistic, but grief is a forever journey.

Jess Timmerman 19:56

Correct.

Jared Sonnenberg 19:56

We're never going to stop missing or loving people that we had in our lives that we have lost. it's just, it's part of being human. And I found that we grieve in a measure equal to how much we loved

Jess Timmerman 20:07

and that makes it beautiful Or tragic. Shakespearean.

Jared Sonnenberg 20:10

Yeah. it does. And that's, again, it's not meant to be pessimistic, it's just the reality of being human.

Jess Timmerman 20:15

Yeah. If you're not missing, you didn't love similarly, and then we're going back to the light. in your job small town. You are a voice of positivity and holding space. So I have friends that work at the hospital. when bad things go down, you are a number they call to help, right? With trainings and things.

Jared Sonnenberg 20:33

Yes.

Jess Timmerman 20:34

How do you approach that when, a tragedy happens in a community?

Jared Sonnenberg 20:38

Hmm, that's a good question. it has to be needs based. and again, this is that. the chaplain that I am, the call of chaplain C is I have to hold onto my faith, but when I'm called, whether it's to lead a debriefing after a critical incident, or, sometimes I'm asked to go to scenes, and then maybe I don't find out about something till after it's happened, and then it's just simply going in and supporting the people that responded. It's entirely based around what they need. Okay, so if it's in the, if it's in the hospital setting and it was a traumatic incident, then we might be talking about doing, a critical incident debriefing or a diffusing session. So going in and leading people through that process of, talking through what was the first thing you remember, what was the first thing you remember smelling. we try to reengage those senses and. the psychology behind that is, our brain, like the alarm system gets triggered right when something traumatic happens. So the amygdala starts running things and people that have been trained kinda kick back on that prefrontal cortex and. They're able to think logically. a lot of our responders are still able to do their job because of that, because they've been through training and nurses in the clinical setting, the same thing, but their brain has still got all these other processes. So it's like an internet browser. There's still all these other tabs running.

Jess Timmerman 21:55

Right.

Jared Sonnenberg 21:55

And helping them reregulate. Is very important. So that's why a debriefing would be for them. what do we need to talk through in those moments? What kind of things need to be talked through and affirmed that you're not weird for feeling this way, you're not, it's not abnormal because you couldn't sleep or that you haven't wanted to eat for a few days. that's a needs space. So we go in, what do they need on there? if I'm called to a scene, it's what do the civilians on scene need? Do they need me to make connections? Maybe they aren't part of a faith group. Or maybe they are. So do I need to call their pastor? Do I need to call their faith leader and get them involved in the process so that they have their people? If they don't have anybody, then are they willing? Do they want me to be a part of that space? Or is the best thing to help just simply call family members. again, very much needs based. And then on the responder world, do I need to go to the fire station and check on those folks? Do I need to ride in a patrol car, with a law enforcement officer because they're having struggle, but they still have to do their job. do I need to check up on those folks to, do we need to have people to our home? My wife and I's house is virtually open 24 7. I've had responders there in the middle of the night because that was the safest place for them to be.

Jess Timmerman 23:04

Incredible.

Jared Sonnenberg 23:05

again, it just goes back to needs because in that moment I feel like my calling not only a chaplain, but just in ministry, is to be a vessel for God's love. how does that love get poured out in whatever way it needs to look to support those folks? you go where you're, called and with no agenda other than just to help and to support.

Jess Timmerman 23:24

Okay. Talking about our first responders, as, typical Americans, We see one to three highly traumatic events in our life, that's not correct math, but it's close and dealing with those professionals that encounter it weekly. How, if one of them is listening, how would you encourage them to take care of themselves?

Jared Sonnenberg 23:43

I think the, my hope would be that they work for a department. Great question. Again, my hope would be that they work for a department that has a chaplaincy program or a peer support program, and wherever they're at, I would encourage them if they're hesitant or if they haven't, is to reach out to those resources that are available. if they work for a department that for some reason doesn't have any mental health or spiritual support to just start asking around or hop on, hop onto Google they could go to, I'm part of a chaplain group, Rocky Mount Police and Fire Chaplains. we've got vetted partners. we've got membership now in 16 states plus Canada. We go all over the United States, our training team, and we train people how to be chaplains in the responder world and how to help agencies, how to set up, their own chaplain programs. So that's a resource they could look over. there's a lot of responder specific counselors and therapists.

Jess Timmerman 24:37

Okay.

Jared Sonnenberg 24:37

if their department doesn't, honestly, it would take a little bit of legwork on behalf of the responder or reach out to you and you can put them in touch with me. Yeah. And I can help people get connected if the, if they don't have any of that support. But you're right, most people see just a handful of traumatic incidents. There's no hard number, but they estimate that our responders see between six and 800.

Jess Timmerman 24:58

That is a lot to process

Jared Sonnenberg 25:01

and it doesn't mean you're not gonna be frustrated if you get pulled over for a ticket and maybe the officer is a little bit curt with you. The reality is they may have just come from the worst call of their life. Maybe it's been an infant that has died. it happens. And they're the first one on scene'cause law enforcement officers are driving around, so they typically get there before, EMS or fire. And if a baby's not breathing, the parents will literally just hold this body of a infant and just put it into the chest of a law enforcement officer. And it's not uncommon that calls like that, that they will go from working that. And then maybe that pediatric patient gets transported to a hospital or pronounced unseen, and then They're still on shift. They go back to patrolling the road.

Jess Timmerman 25:42

And me trying to get home to watch The Bachelor is irritated that he's trying to save my life.

Jared Sonnenberg 25:48

And they go from that to that with very little time to process. And I'm not saying that's the case every single time that no, maybe a law enforcement officer is short with you if they're giving a ticket. But that's the world that they live in. And you talk about just being aware. that's probably the difference between the law enforcement side and the fire side is they're siloed and isolated as law enforcement officers. It's them and their patrol vehicle, just them driving around. our fire departments have a little bit more of a family culture to them. They might go to those same difficult calls, but then they'll go back to the fire station and if the tones aren't hitting again, they get all sit around probably and eat together.

Jess Timmerman 26:25

Correct. They have community,

Jared Sonnenberg 26:27

that's one of those differences as a chaplain, we have to work through. relationship building looks a little different. It's all part of the same responder world, but there's the, again, there's nuances to the jobs that those folks have.

Jess Timmerman 26:39

Wow. can you imagine if corporate came in and tried to write your job manual for ai? All the chapters and folders and flow chart. How do you handle this person different than this? It's. Needs human touch, not ai. It's,

Jared Sonnenberg 26:53

and I hope just by mentioning that, if people have responders that are in their family systems or in their group of friends,

Jess Timmerman 27:00

how can they support

Jared Sonnenberg 27:01

that maybe? Maybe listening to this podcast? Yeah, maybe it just opens that door a little bit more to be like, oh, I never thought about that. Their job in practical terms looked like that. Or, our dispatchers are another one. They're the first voice on scene, but they have no eyes.

Jess Timmerman 27:15

Right.

Jared Sonnenberg 27:15

all the trauma that gets called into 9 1 1, our dispatchers absorb all of that, and yet never, they have to use their imagination of what's actually playing out, on scene.

Jess Timmerman 27:25

Okay.

Jared Sonnenberg 27:25

And so that's a forgotten group. And the, you can tie in all kinds. social workers corners, it's. If we have any people in their lives. I really encourage people, don't go ask those folks. What's the worst call you've ever seen? Because you're asking'em to relive the, and a lot of people tend to do that, not out of malice, just they're curious.

Jess Timmerman 27:40

It happens with military people. it's just a conversation. I think people just say to be Kurt or funny, and they're like, have you killed anyone? And wow, we're doing that, Oh, okay. So instead of saying, having that word vomit, what's the worst thing you've seen in your job? How, what would be a better,

Jared Sonnenberg 27:56

I guess I'm of the mindset, all of our responders, military members, a thank you is never the bad thing to say. just treating them like normal people is probably the best thing. Or just letting'em know, if you see somebody in uniform, just say, I appreciate you.

Jess Timmerman 28:11

Yeah.

Jared Sonnenberg 28:12

not wanting the gossip. those people, stand between us, whether it's in our local communities or nationally or when they're deployed. They stand between us and the worst things that humanity can do to each other and asking them to relive it is probably not the best course, but just letting'em know that they're loved and supported. then if you have those people in your lives, just make sure that we back up our words with actions.

Jess Timmerman 28:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Jared Sonnenberg 28:36

don't just say it, but then, but live it.

Jess Timmerman 28:39

You're right. It's one thing to make a Facebook post and say, I love our friends in blue, And then how are you showing that love in action?

Jared Sonnenberg 28:45

Yeah. I mean, my opinion. if you ever encounter'em on the street, then. Follow orders if they're asked or have some understanding. if you're supposed to get together with a friend that's in, in law enforcement or the fire service and they cancel last minute, don't harbor hard feelings. Maybe they've literally come off one of the worst shifts of their lives and maybe being social right after that is not the most Appealing for them.

Jess Timmerman 29:08

Yeah.

Jared Sonnenberg 29:09

And then be being understanding and compassionate that those jobs then carry forward, into the family systems.

Jess Timmerman 29:15

you shared that your youngest is Pursuing law enforcement. Yep. And does that make your heart happy that she feels called to act in a public service way or Are you nervous about the world she's serving or It's probably all of them and more?

Jared Sonnenberg 29:30

Yeah, I would say it's all of'em. My wife Rita is more, probably more nervous, for Ellie to go into that. I'm obviously plugged into that world, so that part doesn't scare me. Okay. I also understand that if God calls you to something, you're not gonna have peace

Jess Timmerman 29:47

until

Jared Sonnenberg 29:47

you do it, until you're faithful to that calling and she feels like this is what she's supposed to do. And there's a lot of ways to help, right? I I've actually got a tattoo on my arm and it's in Hebrew, it says, you have a purpose. my job as a chaplain is to serve those that serve. And Ellie feels like her calling is to be on the front line of those that serve, and she needs to explore that. God will call us two things and God will call us out of things. At the same time. callings are time and place specific. at this time in her life, at this place, she feels like this is gonna be her calling. And I want her to work that through, and be as faithful to it as she can.

Jess Timmerman 30:22

Okay.

Jared Sonnenberg 30:22

But yes, it isn't, it is nerve wracking as a parent. every parent that watches their child enlist in the military, or same thing, law enforcement, it's you're, that lumps in your throat a little bit, right? Your heart's in your stomach because you just want your kids to be protected. But I also want all of our kids to be at peace. Yeah. I don't think you find that unless you're faithful to the thing that God has created you to do.

Jess Timmerman 30:44

Oh, that's beautiful. That's raising kids. I think if we all knew what we were getting into, we'd never do it.

Jared Sonnenberg 30:49

I agree with you on some measure, but I also know it's been the most beautiful journey that we've made as parents I guess I would say this, unhealthy birds never get to leave the nest.

Jess Timmerman 30:58

Oh. That's deep.

Jared Sonnenberg 30:59

to see your children, when they get old enough to spread their wings and want to go out into the world, as hard as that is, it's actually indicative that they've had some support around them that's allowed them to flourish and grow. And in that other. Token. that's a very positive thing.

Jess Timmerman 31:15

Yeah. And birds always come back to their ne If you did a good job, it's they wanna come back and see you. Oh man. Okay. Anything we didn't cover that you'd like to?

Jared Sonnenberg 31:24

This was your show, Jess.

Jess Timmerman 31:25

No, I know, but I just hold space and see where it goes. I think

Jared Sonnenberg 31:30

it, I was honored that you asked.

Jess Timmerman 31:31

Yeah. Thank you so much. Last one. Two last ones. I, do you have a specific, particular connection that made you very invested in mental health in your area, or did you just see the need. And growing up in that community. Maybe you hear the conversations and you're like, we can do better here,

Jared Sonnenberg 31:48

it was a combination. So growing up, again, it was not out of any shortcoming or malice, but I heard that there was just certain things that we didn't talk about. And as I grew up and got older. And then mental health, touched my life and touched my wife's life. And we've lost friends. We've lost a nephew to self harm.

Jess Timmerman 32:10

Ugh. Sorry.

Jared Sonnenberg 32:11

you know the, just those questions that came up that maybe some of the things that we were told, we don't talk about when I was growing up. Maybe the fact that those things aren't discussed for a lot of houses and a lot of families, maybe that was contributing To people not feeling like they had a space to talk about that. And then scripturally there, we do have examples of people that attempted self harm. Jesus was so stressed near the end of his life that he swept blood. this holistic approach for me to, the way that God has created us as humans, to me it only makes sense that our mental health, our spiritual health, and our physical health are all connected. if we neglect one, and if you're a numerology person, that it's three. we see these numbers crop up in the Bible, 3 7 40. just a few examples and maybe to To be this temple that God has designed us all to be in the best ways that we can. We probably shouldn't be ignoring any parts of this. and then the chaplaincy side of my life, anecdotally, I see what happens when people don't have those systems, when they don't have the support and you see the tragedy that happens. in the ways that I can, trying to bring some awareness to it and some affirmation to it, that these are things we all struggle with. We all have our good days. We all have our bad days. Some people's bad days or bad periods are more severe than others, but no person can say that every day is a 10. It just doesn't happen. we weren't created that way. Perfection does not exist. It existed in Jesus Christ and that's it. and for the rest of us, it's just reality. So figuring out how to best support each other has been really important to me. How faith and mental health especially intersect. Has been really important. So then I set out and consumed as much, information as I could. Went and got trainings, went back to school and, and got a degree in counseling coaching so that I could, so that I could counsel and coach people through some of these difficulties in life. then got specialized training on the chaplaincy side to deal with grief and moral injuries and critical incidents. And that kind of supplemented, the seminary based. Education that I got to become an ordained pastor.

Jess Timmerman 34:16

Right?

Jared Sonnenberg 34:17

So just trying to be as competent culturally and spiritually and theologically as I could, so I don't have to be everything to all people, but there's at least enough of a knowledge base. I hope that I can appropriately support or get people connected and referred is what I want to do if I'm not the person that can best help. enough people, make enough connections that I can say, let me make a phone call and let's see if we can't get you set up

Jess Timmerman 34:40

correct

Jared Sonnenberg 34:40

with the appropriate care.

Jess Timmerman 34:42

Yep. reference out when necessary. Okay? We're gonna have to do this again because at the very end you touched on moral injuries, which I think is something people know very little about.

Jared Sonnenberg 34:52

I would love to do that. I've actually, put together a training that's become. part of our basic chaplain training. when we train new people to be chaplains, and then through that process we've built it out and we do an advanced training for chaplains that want to go deeper on what moral injury is. And then outta that, we've also developed a train the trainer course. so if people want to take it into their agencies or their communities, we walk'em through all the psychology behind those soul hurts. what we found, statistics show that our responders and our military members, PTSD, used to be the big scary thing. But statistically, only about one to two out of 10

Jess Timmerman 35:25

right,

Jared Sonnenberg 35:26

are operators, rather the military side or the responder world actually have diagnosed and there's some diagnostic clinical criteria for post-traumatic stress. Most of'em weren't hitting all those markers. So what's that place that they're living in between, what is the job doing to folks? and we've honed in on yeah, that's absolutely moral injury. how do we talk about it? How do we educate on it? And then how do we help people heal from it?

Jess Timmerman 35:49

Okay. Wow.

Jared Sonnenberg 35:50

So yeah, if you want to do another session,

Jess Timmerman 35:52

Hey, I'll let you know.

Jared Sonnenberg 35:53

I could talk to you for hours.

Jess Timmerman 35:54

I know. the same thing. When something touches you, then you gotta consume everything. I gotta read everything. I gotta find out everything. And then. In your mind, you're like, and now I gotta blow up what I learned and make a better path.

Jared Sonnenberg 36:05

Yeah.

Jess Timmerman 36:06

Yeah. Okay. thank you. Thank you Jared, for doing this. Thank you, Jess. Okay.

Jared Sonnenberg 36:09

It's, yeah, I know we haven't gotta to see each other for quite a while, but yeah, I'm very honored that our relationship goes back almost 25, 30 years and it's

Jess Timmerman 36:17

crazy how long we've been outta high school. I know.

Jared Sonnenberg 36:19

We're getting old is what it means.

Jess Timmerman 36:20

Oh, I know. Casey a good friend of mine and She always has the nicest things to say about you.

Jared Sonnenberg 36:26

Oh my gosh. Casey and she's now serving on the school board with my wife Rita.

Jess Timmerman 36:30

I when she was running for that, I was like, are you sure you wanna do this?

Jared Sonnenberg 36:33

we need awesome people advocating for our kids, making decisions, whether it's on a local school board level or it's like I mentioned Lori shot and those parents. trying to hold, big technology companies a little more accountable.

Jess Timmerman 36:46

Yeah.

Jared Sonnenberg 36:46

I firmly believe that every kid deserves cheerleaders, doesn't matter and

Jess Timmerman 36:50

lots of them.

Jared Sonnenberg 36:51

because it takes a village and it doesn't matter where they're at. our kids deserve that kind of support and that protection so that hopefully they can grow into everything that God has created them to be.

Jess Timmerman 37:01

That's beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for doing this.

Jess 37:04

It means the world to me that you clicked Sparking the Torch Pod. If you like what you heard, please leave me a five star review. If you've got a story you'd like to have highlighted, shoot me an email. Thanks again.